Hi, thank you so much for featuring P-ATX once again! just a few notes, ID-cooling luckily has a new sub 60mm cooler, it is called IS-55, it performs good and it is a successor to IS-60. They also have IS-50X that has similar height but better compatibility. Regarding cpu's, for someone who is mostly gaming, limiting tdp to 95-125w range works well for this low profile coolers in cases that have good ventilation and you don't loose any performance, even with something like 12900k. Rendering is another beast of course but for that I do have an N-ATX case which is wider and has better compatibility on all fronts.
Great feedback! Added IS-55 to links, but I'll admit, in the rendering I did on this video using this pc, even the double fan black ridge was pushed to the limit. I think 55mm is too short for a professional machine.
70mm seems to provide a great middle balance of cooling and size. The days of the 53mm AM4 stealth cooling being enough are probably over with AM5 and Intel. You want to be able to cool a i5/R5 with some overclocking headroom or a i7/R7 at stock clocks. I feel like the Scythe Shuriken 3 rev b is a perfect size.
Great analysis. Note that the Big Shuriken 3 actually isn't quite as good as the Noctua NH-L12S, but has better RAM compatibility because it sits over the I/O area instead of the RAM slots. See my shootout here: ruclips.net/video/nx3axNgZs8U/видео.html
@@TheTechBuyersGuru You are definitely correct. I've just had a lot more luck fitting the scythe than the Noctua. Ram is getting quite large as well these days.
i'd say between 65 and 70 mm should be a minimum for modern cpus. for people who don't mind the noise, the coolers of this size equipped with some good fans should be capable of handling even relatively high powered cpus. for the ones more sensitive to the noise levels, they should handle mid to low powered cpus fine without being annoying
Awesome, thanks for the tip! Looks like this is the one: click.linksynergy.com/deeplink?id=WAzU8cLhuCU&mid=44583&murl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2Fraijintek-0r400014%2Fp%2F1DR-002C-00020%3FDescription%3DRaijintek%2520120mm%26cm_re%3DRaijintek_120mm-_-9SIA66Z28S3562-_-Product%26quicklink%3Dtrue I'll add it to the video description in case anyone wants to try it with the Black Ridge cooler. The 13mm height may mean it touches the side of the P-ATX chassis, so I'm not sure it will work, but the price makes it worth a try!
Hey, I'm enjoying your content, Thanks. I build quite a bit of small form factor systems, and I am often challenged with finding quite thin PC case fans in both 120mm and 140mm. Example Fractal Designs Torrent Nano has room for 2x140mm fans in the bottom, but standard thickness has them bumped against a full size modern GPU. I would love to see a video/review of these fan options, realizing it's niche.
Really glad I stumbled onto this video. I've got exactly the same components and was considering the P-ATX. Just out of interest, was the 9900k at stock settings? I was thinking I might get away with undervolting the 9900 and using the black ridge with a single 92mm Noctua, but the case and SFX PSU is a fairly reasonable investment to just roll the dice!
Maybe its a fine case, but you cant buy it anywhere! There is no chance to order one of those cases with their order system. I waited nearly a month for the re-stock on October 26 (9:00 AM) for the N-Model, and then their server was overloaded. A half hour later they where sold out....
All the best cases are very hard to order SFFtime, Velka, Densium. I hope they're as available as Dan cases, Lian Li, SGPC which can be ordered on any local online platform. I won't order them from their respective official websites because the tax and shipping fee is too much, considering they want me to pay first before shipping, I will be forced to pay a ridiculous amount of tax or else lose the money I sent.
It's really hard for boutique case designers and partnering with bigger manufacturers isn't a walk in the park either based on what happened with the designers of Meshlicious and SSUPD/Lian-Li. It's part of the reason why the NCase M1 was discontinued.
@@cmja09 It isn't a success for the designers. SSUPD/Lian-Li wasn't paying the right amount to them and the designers decided to sue the company. Lian Li also manufactures the NCase M1 and because of the pending case, the designer decided that he had to cancel the next batch because he may get screwed over and lose more money if Lian-Li decides to delay the production or something similar. As a boutique case designer you're at the mercy of these manufacturers if you ever decide to partner up with them.
@@ailluinthethyra6139 All the designer has to do is include any specific details they want in the contract. That's what contracts are for. They aren't "at the mercy" of anyone, unless they blow it and don't CYA. (Cover your ass.)
cable management looks to be a problem with the case, does it include any tie points? It is an interesting case but not something I would want to build in.
Small case and slim air cooler will be great if it works for 9900k...I was looking for smallest case when I built my rig but at the end, I have to settle with P600s as all other case sucks.
Are you going to checkout/build in Lian Li's new Lancool III? I expect it to be one the best air cooled cases to date, might replace my corsair 750D and fill it with black noctua fans.
Just put together a 8.4l ITX sandwich layout case with a Ryzen 5600x and an RTX 3080 Ti. I had around 60mm of clearance in the CPU side and found quite difficult to choose the cooler. I obviously wanted to maximize the cooler size, but many good options out there seem to be over 60mm (including the Noctua nh-l15 ghost and nh-l9x65). Most of my options would be quite a bit lower (such as the nh-l9a or the Black Ridge) wasting potential space. Annoyingly, a slim 120mm on top of the Black Ridge would exceed my clearance at around 62mm. I am also not convinced with the dual fan setup in the Black Ridge, as this may cause turbulence between the 2 fans. I ended up with the Shuriken 2 at 58mm. At full load, both the CPU and GPU sit at mid 70C, which is not brilliant but not bad for such SFF, but the 92mm Scythe Flex fan is quite noisy at the full 2500rpm. I just ordered a 90 to 120mm fan adapter (under 2mm) so I can replace the 92mm Scythe flex fan by a 120mm slim fan. This should give me a similar air flow and static pressure at much lower RPM, hopefully reducing the noise quite a bit (and potentially adding cooling to the VRM and M.2).
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am of course familiar with the Scythe Shuriken 2, as that is what I pulled the Scythe Kaze Flex 92mm fan off of. I don't think the heatsink is big enough for serious loads. That is why I wish Scythe still offered the Big Shuriken 2.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I chose the Shuriken 2 based on your low profile cooler comparison video (thanks for that video btw). Without being a top performer, it delivered solid results without having to compromise in RAM and motherboard compatibility. The Big Shuriken 2 would have been great, shame it was discontinued. The Shuriken 2 is enough for a 5600x or 5700x like CPU, just need to reduce the fan noise.
Glad that helped! I just wish there were as many 58mm models as there used to be! Also, most fans are loud at high RPMs. I still think it's a good fan if you limit the RPMs with a custom curve, which is what I did in the noise normalized test on the Black Ridge.
Things are getting pretty toasty these days. I've already shifted from building in my littlest cases and have resigned to a larger itx case size that allows for a 360 aio (Jonsplus 100i). I still love building in my little cases but I would have to resort to weaker CPUs in a time of these awesome new Intel CPUS and whatever is to come next. Maybe the next line of Ryzen can be cooled in the smaller SFF style cases and the little coolers will still be relevant. I hope so because I have a dang collection of neat little coolers that I don't want to become useless.
Agreed. That's a nice case, hadn't heard of it before, but it's pretty big for SFF. 280mm might be enough in my opinion, as the performance is similar to 360mm without forcing really long cases.
How hot would it be with an RTX-3080 and i5-12600? Given power rumors for CPUs and GPUs being released this Fall, capable coolers for e.g. VR gaming should be supported.
The 3080 will probably be all right, but I wouldn't go much higher than that. The 12600 would be fine. If you're talking a 12600K, you might not want to overclock.
their website clarifies u need mini-itx for bigger graphics card. 4090 maxes out their gpu space limitations - not clear if it would actually fit. AIO limits you to a two slot GPU in this case per their website. 4090 performance seems sus based on cooling difficulty but id be curious to see some people try forsure.
It's really a catch-22 isn't it? Consumers want more power out of their CPUs every generation (whether it's necessary is another conversation), which with silicon dies and higher transitor densities, only increases the market for taller coolers or larger radiators as more power is pumped into smaller packages. If the sub-60mm class cooler wants to gain any more market share, both CPU and GPU manufacturers need to solve the density problem or find a new wafer material to manufacture on. Currently (and the near future), 60mm coolers only make sense for the 5 series processors from Intel and AMD at stock settings. Hopefully this trend reverses soon, because the amount of waste generated from purchases of larger, new CPU coolers to cool lower wattage CPUs is getting ridiculous.
Great insights! I don't think top-end CPUs will be coming down in TDP anytime soon, but the mid-range coolers will work with 60mm-class coolers for a while.
In my opinion, in order for small form factors to become popular, cooling solutions need to evolve. Old school methods are going to become obsolete the more we continue to increase power consumption.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru they want a miracle that ignores the laws of physics. Anything under 15L will not be suitable with the supposed power consumption of upcomming products is probably where we are headed And if we are lucky will only involve low/minimal comprimises on the hardware. The feeling of stacking comprimises makes me hope the 3070 will hold its own much like the 1080ti and how relevant it is today.
Nope. Four RAM slots, more M.2 slots, better I/O, and much lower prices for similar power handling capability. Many ITX motherboards cost 50% more than equivalent ATX boards.
@@Housestationlive yes, my z490itx strix board cost me like 400 CAD. the same featureset in atx would have costed like 140 at the time i bough my system
![FendiDa Rappa - Clock Dat ft. Shamar Marco [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3NBU8KHdxYY/mqdefault.jpg)
Where are you????
Hope you come back to post another video
what happened to this channel? 11 months ago is latest video???
Hi, thank you so much for featuring P-ATX once again! just a few notes, ID-cooling luckily has a new sub 60mm cooler, it is called IS-55, it performs good and it is a successor to IS-60. They also have IS-50X that has similar height but better compatibility. Regarding cpu's, for someone who is mostly gaming, limiting tdp to 95-125w range works well for this low profile coolers in cases that have good ventilation and you don't loose any performance, even with something like 12900k. Rendering is another beast of course but for that I do have an N-ATX case which is wider and has better compatibility on all fronts.
Great feedback! Added IS-55 to links, but I'll admit, in the rendering I did on this video using this pc, even the double fan black ridge was pushed to the limit. I think 55mm is too short for a professional machine.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I agree yeah, for anything over 65w tdp
Honestly i discovered your channel when searching for info about fans. Video was really good now i watch your videos to support you.
Are you working on a new video right now? Or have you taken a break from RUclips? Regardless I hope you're well and wish you the best!
No new videos?
70mm seems to provide a great middle balance of cooling and size. The days of the 53mm AM4 stealth cooling being enough are probably over with AM5 and Intel. You want to be able to cool a i5/R5 with some overclocking headroom or a i7/R7 at stock clocks. I feel like the Scythe Shuriken 3 rev b is a perfect size.
Great analysis. Note that the Big Shuriken 3 actually isn't quite as good as the Noctua NH-L12S, but has better RAM compatibility because it sits over the I/O area instead of the RAM slots. See my shootout here: ruclips.net/video/nx3axNgZs8U/видео.html
@@TheTechBuyersGuru You are definitely correct. I've just had a lot more luck fitting the scythe than the Noctua. Ram is getting quite large as well these days.
i'd say between 65 and 70 mm should be a minimum for modern cpus. for people who don't mind the noise, the coolers of this size equipped with some good fans should be capable of handling even relatively high powered cpus. for the ones more sensitive to the noise levels, they should handle mid to low powered cpus fine without being annoying
Raijintek sells two 120x130x13 fans, the Aeolus β - RGB, and regular Aeolus Beta. They're available both in US (on newegg), and in EU (caseking).
Awesome, thanks for the tip! Looks like this is the one: click.linksynergy.com/deeplink?id=WAzU8cLhuCU&mid=44583&murl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2Fraijintek-0r400014%2Fp%2F1DR-002C-00020%3FDescription%3DRaijintek%2520120mm%26cm_re%3DRaijintek_120mm-_-9SIA66Z28S3562-_-Product%26quicklink%3Dtrue
I'll add it to the video description in case anyone wants to try it with the Black Ridge cooler. The 13mm height may mean it touches the side of the P-ATX chassis, so I'm not sure it will work, but the price makes it worth a try!
I’d say 65mm like the Noctua L9x65 seems to be able to fit in most of the height restricted cases
Is this channel dead? A pity.
He passed away last October
@@slightlyopinionated8107 damn, really? What happened?
@@slightlyopinionated8107how do you know? I searched his name on Google and couldn't find anything about his passing.
@@slightlyopinionated8107 don't spread bs info please, very disrespectful
Do you guys have any recommendations for an AutoCAD workstation PC build?
You're back 😊
Well, yes, when I have something good to say!
@@TheTechBuyersGuru You always do, Ari!
Hey, I'm enjoying your content, Thanks. I build quite a bit of small form factor systems, and I am often challenged with finding quite thin PC case fans in both 120mm and 140mm. Example Fractal Designs Torrent Nano has room for 2x140mm fans in the bottom, but standard thickness has them bumped against a full size modern GPU. I would love to see a video/review of these fan options, realizing it's niche.
Really glad I stumbled onto this video. I've got exactly the same components and was considering the P-ATX. Just out of interest, was the 9900k at stock settings? I was thinking I might get away with undervolting the 9900 and using the black ridge with a single 92mm Noctua, but the case and SFX PSU is a fairly reasonable investment to just roll the dice!
why no vids in a year?
will there maybe come a fuma 2 rev b review? because of your channel i got hands on the brand scythe last year thx for this!
Maybe its a fine case, but you cant buy it anywhere! There is no chance to order one of those cases with their order system. I waited nearly a month for the re-stock on October 26 (9:00 AM) for the N-Model, and then their server was overloaded. A half hour later they where sold out....
All the best cases are very hard to order SFFtime, Velka, Densium. I hope they're as available as Dan cases, Lian Li, SGPC which can be ordered on any local online platform.
I won't order them from their respective official websites because the tax and shipping fee is too much, considering they want me to pay first before shipping, I will be forced to pay a ridiculous amount of tax or else lose the money I sent.
It's really hard for boutique case designers and partnering with bigger manufacturers isn't a walk in the park either based on what happened with the designers of Meshlicious and SSUPD/Lian-Li. It's part of the reason why the NCase M1 was discontinued.
@@ailluinthethyra6139 SSUPD meshy was a huge success tho, still widely available until now. And a v2 is on the way, I wasnt aware of an issue
@@cmja09 It isn't a success for the designers. SSUPD/Lian-Li wasn't paying the right amount to them and the designers decided to sue the company. Lian Li also manufactures the NCase M1 and because of the pending case, the designer decided that he had to cancel the next batch because he may get screwed over and lose more money if Lian-Li decides to delay the production or something similar. As a boutique case designer you're at the mercy of these manufacturers if you ever decide to partner up with them.
Interesting info there. I do think that Lian Li is a bit cutthroat in its approach.
@@ailluinthethyra6139 All the designer has to do is include any specific details they want in the contract. That's what contracts are for. They aren't "at the mercy" of anyone, unless they blow it and don't CYA. (Cover your ass.)
cable management looks to be a problem with the case, does it include any tie points? It is an interesting case but not something I would want to build in.
SilentiumPC Fluctus 120. It's worth checking out these fans.
Small case and slim air cooler will be great if it works for 9900k...I was looking for smallest case when I built my rig but at the end, I have to settle with P600s as all other case sucks.
Are you going to checkout/build in Lian Li's new Lancool III? I expect it to be one the best air cooled cases to date, might replace my corsair 750D and fill it with black noctua fans.
No plans on that, but agreed that's a really promising case!
Just put together a 8.4l ITX sandwich layout case with a Ryzen 5600x and an RTX 3080 Ti. I had around 60mm of clearance in the CPU side and found quite difficult to choose the cooler. I obviously wanted to maximize the cooler size, but many good options out there seem to be over 60mm (including the Noctua nh-l15 ghost and nh-l9x65). Most of my options would be quite a bit lower (such as the nh-l9a or the Black Ridge) wasting potential space. Annoyingly, a slim 120mm on top of the Black Ridge would exceed my clearance at around 62mm. I am also not convinced with the dual fan setup in the Black Ridge, as this may cause turbulence between the 2 fans. I ended up with the Shuriken 2 at 58mm. At full load, both the CPU and GPU sit at mid 70C, which is not brilliant but not bad for such SFF, but the 92mm Scythe Flex fan is quite noisy at the full 2500rpm. I just ordered a 90 to 120mm fan adapter (under 2mm) so I can replace the 92mm Scythe flex fan by a 120mm slim fan. This should give me a similar air flow and static pressure at much lower RPM, hopefully reducing the noise quite a bit (and potentially adding cooling to the VRM and M.2).
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am of course familiar with the Scythe Shuriken 2, as that is what I pulled the Scythe Kaze Flex 92mm fan off of. I don't think the heatsink is big enough for serious loads. That is why I wish Scythe still offered the Big Shuriken 2.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru I chose the Shuriken 2 based on your low profile cooler comparison video (thanks for that video btw). Without being a top performer, it delivered solid results without having to compromise in RAM and motherboard compatibility. The Big Shuriken 2 would have been great, shame it was discontinued. The Shuriken 2 is enough for a 5600x or 5700x like CPU, just need to reduce the fan noise.
Glad that helped! I just wish there were as many 58mm models as there used to be! Also, most fans are loud at high RPMs. I still think it's a good fan if you limit the RPMs with a custom curve, which is what I did in the noise normalized test on the Black Ridge.
Things are getting pretty toasty these days. I've already shifted from building in my littlest cases and have resigned to a larger itx case size that allows for a 360 aio (Jonsplus 100i). I still love building in my little cases but I would have to resort to weaker CPUs in a time of these awesome new Intel CPUS and whatever is to come next. Maybe the next line of Ryzen can be cooled in the smaller SFF style cases and the little coolers will still be relevant. I hope so because I have a dang collection of neat little coolers that I don't want to become useless.
Agreed. That's a nice case, hadn't heard of it before, but it's pretty big for SFF. 280mm might be enough in my opinion, as the performance is similar to 360mm without forcing really long cases.
Hi, can you make realtime sound test SST-SF120B-ARGB what you did already in the past for AB120R-ARGB and other coolers, thanks
How hot would it be with an RTX-3080 and i5-12600? Given power rumors for CPUs and GPUs being released this Fall, capable coolers for e.g. VR gaming should be supported.
The 3080 will probably be all right, but I wouldn't go much higher than that. The 12600 would be fine. If you're talking a 12600K, you might not want to overclock.
Could you do an mATX build with a 4090 in this case? Would it fit? How well would it perform? Could you fit a small AIO on the CPU in such a build?
their website clarifies u need mini-itx for bigger graphics card. 4090 maxes out their gpu space limitations - not clear if it would actually fit. AIO limits you to a two slot GPU in this case per their website. 4090 performance seems sus based on cooling difficulty but id be curious to see some people try forsure.
It's really a catch-22 isn't it? Consumers want more power out of their CPUs every generation (whether it's necessary is another conversation), which with silicon dies and higher transitor densities, only increases the market for taller coolers or larger radiators as more power is pumped into smaller packages. If the sub-60mm class cooler wants to gain any more market share, both CPU and GPU manufacturers need to solve the density problem or find a new wafer material to manufacture on.
Currently (and the near future), 60mm coolers only make sense for the 5 series processors from Intel and AMD at stock settings. Hopefully this trend reverses soon, because the amount of waste generated from purchases of larger, new CPU coolers to cool lower wattage CPUs is getting ridiculous.
Great insights! I don't think top-end CPUs will be coming down in TDP anytime soon, but the mid-range coolers will work with 60mm-class coolers for a while.
In my opinion, in order for small form factors to become popular, cooling solutions need to evolve. Old school methods are going to become obsolete the more we continue to increase power consumption.
What do you recommend? Liquid or totally new designs?
@@TheTechBuyersGuru perhaps the longstanding motherboard layout is not really suitable for this much heat?
@@TheTechBuyersGuru they want a miracle that ignores the laws of physics.
Anything under 15L will not be suitable with the supposed power consumption of upcomming products is probably where we are headed And if we are lucky will only involve low/minimal comprimises on the hardware.
The feeling of stacking comprimises makes me hope the 3070 will hold its own much like the 1080ti and how relevant it is today.
plase use N-ATX and WAtter cooler. air coller in novadays is not an option. water is simple better.
if the gpu stays infront of all others pci, having full size atx is pointless ^^
Nope. Four RAM slots, more M.2 slots, better I/O, and much lower prices for similar power handling capability. Many ITX motherboards cost 50% more than equivalent ATX boards.
@@TheTechBuyersGuru thanks for pointing that
@@Housestationlive yes, my z490itx strix board cost me like 400 CAD. the same featureset in atx would have costed like 140 at the time i bough my system
even if it blocked all pcie slots itx motherboards are like double the price in most of the world