Jordan Peterson’s Opinion On The Incel Movement
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2023
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Chris and Jordan Peterson discuss the origins of the incel movement. What are the origins of the incel movement? Why is pick up artistry to blame for the origins of the movement?
#jordanpeterson #incel #psychology
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What about the femcels
JP(father of a single mom): 'Get back to the longhouse fella and clean your room' . The reason PUAs get jaded is not how different they need to act. The reason they get jaded is when you have a deep understanding of base hindbrain female nature, the fantasy of sugar & spice and everything nice is replaced with it's just your turn with a clockwork hypergamous being that will feel less for you the more she thinks you feel for her.
L?
If I try, I can look better and make more money, but it still wont be enough for women. If I hit on women, I have 80% chance of being rejected, with 20% chance of being publicly shamed as a creep. This system is corrupt and unusable. Its like knowing there's a mafia running a lottery and trying to play it. Eventually you'll lose your kneecaps. So why play? Instead, I want to do Chinese style laying down and parasitize the system. At least then Im not being abused and saying "if only I would work harder". That's domestic victim mentality.
Incels are a myth, change my mind.
Calling incels a movement is like saying the homeless are a movement
It is an online movement.
Great point... both Definitely symptoms of a failed system
@@xGSxAmAZynProblem is the failed system is the female biological system, that's the underlying issue. Jordan has ran up against this problem before in lecture and speeches, about females predisposition for favoring dark triad characteristics, though he doesn't address and expound upon it, probably for fear of backlash at the inevitable conclusions it will draw.
One of which was the same reason he got shit for a interview where he indirectly suggest *enforced monogamy.*
The fact that happened means society knows what the problem is *AND* knows the solutions, but are too afraid to do it.
*Red Pill* won't be denied💊
@wtfdtreats
Incels are a result of an operating female biological system.
You men always tell women to choose better....then you complain when they do.
Is this the same as the "feminist" movement? Asking for friends
There is no incel "movement." The word "movement" implies that there is a unified set of ideas and a leadership structure. There's not.
U cant inform ppl who insist that the current narrative is correct. That is until the majority allows them to belive otherwise.
The unified set of ideas become apparent when you read enough Incel posts, even if this a hive mind creation, instead of top-down. If enough people in a room do a certain, without central leadership, what is it, if not a movement of sorts. A panicked mass of people, can cause a stampede, without need of central leadership. A similar thing with r1_ts, or a big group of geographically disconnected but digitally connected, on a superficial mono-focus level, to stir themselves into rage-addiction that like popcorn, each individual can suddenly become dangerous for people around them. Each grain seemingly an isolated "lone" case, but from an overview, it's clear the kettle is adding the wrong kind of energy to that group-system. Causing problems, on top of the regular ones life already is offering us.
still, they all independently come to the same stupid conclusions
@@Embassy_of_Jupiterso apparently data and logic are stupid now, huh 🤔
Yes, phenomenon is the right word. Perhaps also ideology, though the ideological aspect of inceldom is very vague.
It's ironic that mainstream media slandered Jordan Peterson as "King of the incels" when he routinely tells men that if women don't find them attractive - it's not the women's fault - but men's fault, and it's each man's responsibility to fix it.
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo intellectual. Remember when he was shaming people for not taking the so called "COVID-19" vaccine?
The thing is he’s right to a certain extent but he’s also very wrong. In some instances women are just being too picky and superficial or in other cases a sub 5 male who has bad genetics can’t really do anything to attract women regardless of how hard he may work to improve himself.
That just shows how little they know about him
@@z-rex6068nah he just need to stack some fucking paper
So this is why we get 1 video per month :D
"The Incel Movement" How can something be a movement when its INvoluntary?!
Haha well said!
Bowel Movement is involuntary
I believe the hypothesis is that it isn't involuntary through and through, and the parts that aren't, make it a movement
@@mattzx003 You consciously have the ability to change how quickly food goes through your digestive tract? Ok,....
@@Nickelodeon81
I don't think you know what a bowel movement is. google it. everyone has control over this, otherwise we would all be sh*tting all over the floor every day. inability to control bowel movements is called "bowel incontinence" and it's a condition that only old people and s*d*mites get.
“Fake it until you make it” makes me miserable. People always said “Be yourself…but not like that.”
yeah i eventually snapped when i was wagecucking i was trying to be a people pleaser
i cried in my car and attempted to unalive myself in a forest but people were there
Why? You have no choice there. You ARE youself from the moment you were born until the day you die.
If you want to change anything about you or your life, that is already part or your self. Let's say you want to become a figher or a musician. Then start faking it. Do the things that boxers / musicians do, although you are not one yet. If you are persistent you will eventualty make it and become a boxer or musician or whatever you wanted.
@@endajd. not everyone can simply just get good at something and make it
yeah youre unique but nothing special
I have been wryly amused every time one of these 'experts' recommends ‘just be yourself’. I picture myself hearing that in a coaching session and getting up and heading for the door. When the coach asks where are you going?, I reply “doing what you suggested - you said be yourself, so I’m going home to stick my nose in a book”.
how is it a movement when it is involuntary ???
It's like a bowel movement
loool@@Tom-vq2hw
Most people who are involuntarily celibate don't identify with the incel community
I don't think they're saying the movement is men choosing to be involuntarily celibate.
If a man really want to get a girlfriend, he will.
Its a matter of being lazy and afraid. Both are fixable
Wtf is the "incel movement", these words have no meaning anymore
The incel movement is the gender version of "the nuclear weapons in Iraq"
involuntary celibate, (adj:) 1. not getting any, (noun:) 2. loser 3. basement dweller
@@craigwillms614. WoW player
The movement part is the group of incels that have become bitter for not being chosen. Like the red pill group.
And treating "pickup artistry" like it's a thing is to buy into incel fantasy.
As far as I'm concerned, 'incel' is a dehumanising slur. Just because there are some disgruntled men who express their frustrations online in an unfortunate way does not mean all single lonely men should be grouped under the same insulting title, which is the way things seem to be going.
it's also poking the bear.
why go in hard on people already miserable? you trying to find their breaking point or what?
Lol..like NAWALT?
The term itself isn't dehumanizing, but feminists and other mainstream actors loaded it with a certain meaning and judgement.
its basically more male demonisation from Feminists
Stop being soft. They are incels.
I WISH, anyone would address the fact that men have been expected to "Put on this show" while women sit there and judge them, and that the Quality of women no longer meets the effort that men have to put in. I just got out of a 10 year relationship, I can say my entire life, I have not met a woman who is really worth it.
"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies." Proverbs 31:10
In other words, this is not a new problem.
And I'm personally not attracted to that kind of relationship. It puts women in charge and gives them the power to choose and make demands. This is bad for society as we now know, but also not attractive for everyone.
(I'm a guy, ignore the avatar)
pump and dump bro
Try shopping in other countries . I did and no regrets. Satisfied with my marriage so far 😊
I’m a woman and yes I judge. You all judge. We are humans. And if I’m in a relationship I expect to be held accountable for my bs. Its the same with men. We all have similar issues. It’s the lack of character you complain about, not women. Do you know what to look for?
I was an Incel. Thanks to Jordan Peterson now i am an Electronics Engineer by day & Muay Thai Fighter by night.
Still am an Incel😂. No luck with women😢
What woman do you like
Yeah but you sound like a cool dude, so its their loss.
Go your own way king...dont need no women
It's about stats. Are there females in your job or hobby? I'm guessing not in huge numbers. If not, how are you going to meet them? Cold approach is creepy for women. Online is just a thumbnail with stupid stats. -longtime married female
@@peterberg3446 it's like sayin "dodged a bullet" when you can't get the girl
Amazing how few people understand what “involuntary” means.
What I don’t understand is why is it so hard to believe that some of us men are not desirable for a romantic relationship.
Like regardless of me being desirable or not….I live my life, take care a my chores, and for no reason in particular I just haven’t managed to find a woman…
I’d wager more people probably die alone than not…it doesn’t really bother me
But I’d guess it bothers them 😂❤
Attraction makes everything you do romantic. If you are unattractive, then your advances will be percieved as cringy...
because some people out here fear accountability, and it disturbs their grandiose sense of self. They feel like they ought to be served. Having to change anything would mean they'd have to do something that doesn't serve them directly and making guys less desperate also means less money
No one ever said it was hard to believe.
@@msnewsenior ha! Fair enough. No one said that word for word, as far as I'm aware.
But I'm pretty sure it's what many people meant.
There is no incel movement. It would mean it's voluntary. Also since when are we shaming virgins? It's just weird if you ask me.
Some people do not understand what "involuntary" means. These 2 guys here believe all these billions of men did not even try. It is just sad at this point. They are complelty gone.
@@nocturnaljoe9543 reads books all day long and yet he is so ignorant with this stuff it is like he lives in a bubble
@@James_36 Because he is. Imagine every single man hitting on 50 women daily. Just try to imagine for a brief moment.
We cannot all be successfull. We cannot all be acknowledged and he knows it. But he cannot say it, because he wants to share hope. Sadly somebody is paying the price for this silence. The men who believe that you can work yourself attractive, like climbing a career letter will eventually fall on their face. And they will be *very, very angry.*
@@nocturnaljoe9543 that message don’t sell books that’s why mate - your comment is spot on
That is what happens when Christianity fades, what was common in pre-Christian era begins popping up again. Male virginity being seen as virtuous began with Christianity.
I'm going to guess that its men's fault.
@@dreamingmusic3299wait a minute why can't I find the other settings?
Atleast blaming ourselves can help in self improvement. I would rather be blamed and forced to self introspect (regardless of the merit of the blame) than to remain in bliss like women.
@@kshitijshekhar1144unfortunately, I agree. we should be grateful for the gift we were given even if that gift isn’t appreciated by the world
@@kshitijshekhar1144 yes 🙌….except when it’s NOT my fu**ing fault 😂😂😂
what I find funny is that people who assume it's only ever men's fault that it also supposes women aren't sentient and capable of making decisions. Like an input/output system you can get the output you want if you know how the input is processed internally. It's also paradoxical that women's choices must be deemed undisputable as if it was theirs but it's also 100% the guy who must assume complete responsibility for her decision.
I must be out of touch... I thought incel meant involuntary celibate, ie male who can't get laid. How is that a movment, and how does that have some kind of ideology?
I often say that the mainstream media needs a boogeyman.
It’s not, and it doesn’t. It’s just so inconceivable to boomers that it must be some sort of extremism
Imagine being called a terrorist for not getting poontang.
A few are bitter, so they use those few to represent the whole.
@@digiwatt This!
There is no movement. It's just men realizing the game is too rigged against them and stopped playing the game. Now their priority is themselves, not women. Go free, young men.
Yes, and it's not "incel", because that term implies "involuntary". If one CHOOSES to stop playing their games, it's entirely voluntary.
You confuse incel with mgtow
@@drewschumann1 Nice try. NO
You're describing something entirely different.
Incle literally means INVOLUNTARY celebate
@@vladimirputin4157 There is no incel movement. That's the point. There could be some incels but there is no movement.
There are incels, but there is no incel movement!
the number of incels is growing at such an alarming rate, that ignorant people can't help but call it a movement.
Yes, there's a wider "phenomenon" and there's a semi-organized and more narrow "sub-culture". Then there's the slur used by feminists and other people.
@@NoidoDev Anything that threatens the Narrative(tm) is immediately and ruthlessly attacked in the same way women always attack: personally. Embarrassment and shame are their go-to tactics.
I guess Andrew Tateism was purely our imagination then
@@destinycantwait Andrew Tate is the classic PUA. Incels had come to hate PUA's.
Not everything is a "movement" but a collective reality.
Not just blowing smoke with that one.
Ah yes, that highly organised and disruptive ‘incel movement’ 😂 Jesus Christ
"Incels, take me to your leader!"
@@randomnobodovsky3692 he ded.
Reminds me of Uncle Peregrine’s line in Evelyn Waugh’s “Sword of Honour” trilogy.
“One only has to look at the ghastly fellows who are a success with women to know there can’t be much point to it”.
Based.
Unfortunately, no person with high LMS will ever be able to understand the problems of those who are rejected for being ugly or poor
Women don't care about looks as much as us men. U can easily make up for that.
@@agentnukaz1715exactly lol. Women look internally way more than men. The problem is incels lack the personality as well. A men can find a women on their level and Vice versa.
@@kaekae1782 yeah and it's something they can work on, stop emptying the tank on the hub and learn to lighten up.
@@mudworld5307 How would he know? Those are often split-second decisions that are rarely communicated. You'd not get told that during a date. You'd just get no date.
@@agentnukaz1715 true!
The problem I have with asking 50 people out, or even three is... That just makes them all seem like they are replaceable, and you are acting on progressively less substantial foundation. Which likely would mean a lower probability for a successful relationship.
But also, If the women knew you asked someone else out. Would they feel special?
I can't agree more about the exposure therapy, I don't think we face our fears enough these days. To overcome our flaws or restraints. Instead, we coddle and shield. "Oh I don't like strangers talking to me, it's creepy" They are human beings. Talk to the homeless man on the train. It might not be a great conversation, but it's better than treating him like a lepper. or the obesity sensitivity, where for a time even doctors were getting sued over diagnosing someone as overweight (Early to mid 2000's). 6:27
...Also if you go to a mall and ask 50 women out, someone's going to complain to security and likely get you thrown out and/or arrested, and/or on the news.
Yes. Try asking someone out you actually like. Be sincere. There are other ways to get rejected and gain social skills. I've been a Mormon missionary. We're pros at rejection. LOL
What really makes PUAs and other men jaded is seeing all the women who are married and in relationships that are willing to cheat.
ordan so is condescendingly judgemental -- as he pontificates on how all of us can be perfect , if only .... yawwn. typical product of elitist school...
It's the only thing that works. The only date I ever arranged was the first woman I used the pua tricks on. Was so disgusted a girl who spent endless amounts of time claiming to want a nice guy and the first asshole who was mean to her got a date in minutes. Being the nice, considerate, diligent, honest, or gentlemanly gets you a seat under the collective toilet of society. A society that tells you that you need to be that guy. It became obvious the winning move was not to play. I can't imagine a relationship having any benefit outside children.
@@timothydoyle9635 That's why throughout human history women didn't have rights. The modern experiment of giving women rights is a disaster.
Women will cheat on a whim if the Lure is high enough and the Distance from her long term partner is large enough she wont get caught. Never let your woman travel to another country alone.
@@timothydoyle9635there really isn't any benefit at all. I think that's the catch 22 of all of it. Including our biology.we see the evidence, we watch with our own eyes, experiences. But it's that hope, thst drive that keeps us going, and there's nothing wrong with that, I think our problem is, doing what we want. Be a good man, not a nice man, there's no virtue and respect in nice, because nice is default to keep a society from going anarchy, it's the social order. Everyone can be nice, learn to integrate the shadow as he has said. I think that's our biggest problem as men, is not thinking about us, and our wants more.
"It is from our enemies, not our friends that we learn the lesson of building high walls" "It is right to learn, even from your enemies"
A lot of people have huge physical disadvantages and that's just a tough thing. A more universal problem is that general social commons have heavily eroded and it's just harder to meet other people.
He's talking about men manipulating women when really men are just trying what women actually positively respond to.
That is manipulation
@@gaia7240 no its not.
@@gaia7240 then women need to stop responding to it.
@@gaia7240Yeah, and for whatever reason it works.
Gaia is an edgy boi who would call attempting to teach children right from wrong by reward and punishments manipulation. @@gaia7240
Biggest problem I have with the incel debate is how there is never any middle ground when people talk about them. Take me for example:
I think it is a mans responsibility to improve himself if he struggles with women. He is never entitled to get sex from a woman. But...do I think women are privileged when it comes to getting sex? Yes, I think they are. Am I an incel? You can judge.
I find it interesting how there are so many videos of the late incel Elliot Rodger. Part of the reason for that I think is because he is so easy to categorize. He was man who was completely out of touch with reality. A man like that is a gold mine for people who are hellbent on categorizing incels.
@@cobrakaiisback4709 I disagree with an 8 having an easier time than a 6. Women aren't as physically attracted as men are. A 6 can have more success than a 8
Yes it is female priviledge to be asked out and payed for on a date..
@@indicphilosopher8772 Given that sex is one of our primal needs, I would call it a privilege.
Why do you call that a privilege?
@@tangbein Sex isn't a need you won't die if you don't have sex, if that were true there would have never been eunuchs.
Jordan criticizing Tate when JBP raised a daughter who for fell for Tates schtick... Fiction couldn't write the irony any better
She didn't fall for him? She used him for clout ?
@@catcat9582 😂 people believe as they NEED to believe. I'm sure her and Tate just played cards😂
@@ariesostia126 he's not attractive even if he didn't have his beliefs tho... he objectively is not a Chad
@@catcat9582 ok so looks and beliefs aside
1. Rich
2. Famous . Most women are done right here with those two
3. Pre-selected (AKA got other women)
4. Ripped. Your right. not Chad in face, but body is in shape.
And that's about all it takes.
@@ariesostia126 ew
Society understands very little about incels
"Society" cares more about women, but the wave of older femcels is swelling. Then they will complain about men not taking care of them and how we should feel lonely or how we are not men if we don't.
Do the math, Tinder came out 2012. The women which were around 18 back then are now around 30. This is the time when they realize that they might have wanted children at some point in their life and also not be single when old. And other people realize the demographic impact... REEEEEEE
We completely understand - men unwilling to put in the self development that it takes to become desirable to women. because they think they’re entitled to sex and shouldn’t have to do anything to earn it.
... and, as is the norm (when it comes to men), society *cares* even less.
Most of Society understands very little about anything truly. The more one wakes up and becomes genuinely informed and develops their own critical thinking skills and starts to see the world for what it truly is after swallowing the red pill and not just what they were programmed or indoctrinated into thinking the world is by others. They realize everything is a lie and smoke and mirrors and society is extremely lost, ignorant, opinionated, dumbed down, and brain washed about nearly everything.
You're right.@@drewmantia
Would love to see the 'Crappy Childhood Fairy' on your podcast. She talks about C-PTSD and has helped make sense of why I self isolate, would be interesting to watch a conversation between the two of you
Just be a Chad, bro.
Aha, you cannot choose to be a chad, just as you cannot choose to be smart if you're an idiot, or choose to be rich if you're poor.
@@roserevancroix2308 The last part isn't true
Just be yourself! I'm sure you will find someone one day that is meant for you! you have to not look for it only then will it come to you LMAO
@@rodtack8420
I both love and hate the "be yourself" statement. I love it because it is who you are. You can't be anyone else. What I hate about it is that you can be a better version of yourself. By saying "be yourself" it is as if saying you are perfectly fine the way you are, thus laying any flaws you may have on some other factor.
@@jaysherman2615I just read and replied to a commenter that made me stop and think for a minute, because it's something I've wondered as well, there's plenty if variables and degrees to attraction, from both sides we Want completely diffrent things, which is normal, I have alot of shortcomings as man, and I'm not everyone's taste of course. But, as for wmn. Wmn are very in group, hive mind and will usually do things for the safety and acceptance of the group.maybe to a big degree why some or actually alot of men have these problems is because of group thinking.
This is something I've been talking about for a while amongst the ASD community. Pick-up artist had some seeds of very very useful and needed therapy with top quality motivation for young ASD males, (which can be very difficult to sufficiently motivate) but it wasn't designed for long term personal mental health. Personally I dipped my toes into it with a cautious eye over a decade ago and it did me the world of good and has allowed me to build the life I have with the people I hold close. But it's also got a lot of darker aspects and there are a load of lessons that can be learned the wrong way. Hopefully this will help a little in the discourse around teaching applied psychology for young men and especially those on the spectrum.
The pick-up artist community has been overtaken by frauds, grifters, and sex "addicts"*.
Sharing these ideas can be done for free. Having some training and coaching for people would also be fine, but the rules of marketing and attention brings all the focus to the most outlandish actors which might also be willing to spend the most on advertising.
It's important to have a meta structure above all these parts of the manosphere which guides men to use the right tool for the job, dependent on who they are and at which stage in life they are and which goals they have.
* I don't like calling things an addiction which don't cause physical pain or strong withdrawal symptoms when stopping.
Well said.
Pick up artists have terrible advice and most of them get outed as fraudsters anyway
What's ASD?
“Incel” itself is an insult. It’s not a movement, it’s barely a group. It’s becoming a vague, meaningless label like “virgin,” “loser” or lately “nazi.”
Why the fuck is everyone so fixated on whether it qualifies as a movement or not?
I know a lot of women and I have NEVER heard one say they consider Tate "attractive". Quite the opposite in fact.
"Incel"? Nice overused and meaningless buzzword.
I know a hús how calling shaolin monks incels 😂😂😂
like misogynist or oppression
Most men in relationships today would be in cells after woman cheated on them. Most people have no idea how rough it is out there on online dating for men and how easy it is for women.
People know but they just dont care. They either aware aware of the truth and dont care because they aren't affected by it directly. Or they are oblivious to it due to ignorance and living in their own bubbles and being brain washed. Or they know and dont say anything because they know it is futile becuase society by and large doesn't care and will lie about you, and defame your character and message if you do try to speak the truth, so why bother.
Go outside
@@racheltarentino3314 no I'd rather not this time of year it's quite cold. Although I'm outside the rest of the year always doing kayaking, going to the beach, amusement park, going through the woods, four-wheeling, going to all the playgrounds, as well as work.
@@racheltarentino3314 I'd be more apt to tell you to go outside as women have no hobbies on average They say ridiculous things like watching my TV shows that are smut or reading smut books. I think my dear it is you that statistically needs to go outside and touch some grass. But you oh my God they have like bugs outside
This video doesn't address the blackpill, just the redpill. Looks are a key component to success with women and it's something you're either born with or not. I love how everyone keeps tiptoe-ing around this.
A lot of unattractive men are in relationships.People see them everyday.Incels have very high physical standards for women which is why they are fussy about who they want to date.They do not want to meet women who match their personality and have similar looks to them.
Nobody is tip-toeing around it. We're aware of it... and have just collectively decided it's utter nonsense. Its the easiest nonsense to debunk. If you can find unattractive men with beautiful women then the blackpill is nonsense.... since anybody who has been outside for more than 2 seconds can find that dynamic.... case closed
Because you can't sell TradCuckery with the truth, can't sell hopium with it.
And because of this intellectual dishonesty, they'll *never* be able to fix the problem, no matter how much intellectual word salad they throw at it. 💊
Study epigenetics. In a nutshell, it implies lifestyle can change the expression of your genes. Your DNA is not completely immutable.
There are ugly men with good-looking women. They aren't common but they exist.
The gym will go a long way toward your appearance. I'll never be Brad Pitt, but the gym can turn a 1 into a 5, or a 3 into a 7.
@@501Labsthe exception proves the rule
These conversations about incels always focus on what men should do to “improve”, when the truth is, many women today are just too damn picky and they’d rather stay single than to “settle” for anything less than their dream guy.
Are women too picky?
You want women to settle? Them when things don't work out you tell them they should have chosen better.
You tell women to choose better...then complain about it when they do.
Just excuse to give up and them blame others for ur failures..
Truth!
This wouldn't even solve the problem completely, since there's not only the Blackpill in regards to looks, demographics shows that some men won't have a chance.
I got to have standards, just imagine if I was to settle for someone like yourself...
Jordan is thinking about the individual rather than addressing that it's now 50% of men. Where is the meaning in life is there is no chance of having a family?
A woman should have children with one man. There is about 1 woman per man in this case. Conservative values will make close to 100% of men to have children.
The question i asked myself, is really worth to have a family those days? Raise kids to turn gay, addicted or feminist? Tough times, the natural instinct is to have a family, but the headaches doesn't seems to be worthy.
They keep pretending that it's a minority, because most of men are incels in denial.
Having a family isn't the only way to have a meaningful life. Your life has whatever meaning you decide to give it and that's enough
@@cezao93people don't turn gay, they are born gay and being gay or feminist isn't an issue
Why are we stigmatizing theses men to this extent?
Because some of them drive vans through groups of innocent women. Just a guess, but I think it's bad for PR.
@@JenniferJohnson-ub3gt Like... 0.000001% of them. Yeah very productive use of time and effort. Not.
It was a woman that came up with the term incel (originally invcel) and it wasn’t a movement of hate.
Incel is not a movement, its a vile accusation. No one asks to be lonely.
Something that gets left out here is that bars are where bad women go to get picked up by bad men, and that good men should not get suckered in to the PUA scam, because that's all it is.
They keep missing the point. It is jading to REALIZE that women LIKE that PUA BS drama. It is jading to REALIZE that women LIKE Andrew Tate. This speaks very poorly to women's taste and discernment... and thus to women's LTR value.
Yeah, being highly attractive to women almost requires low character. They're not remotely worth sacrificing yourself
This is what i was thinking.
There has always been incels throughout history. You see them daily driving delivery vans, in the supermarket and cleaning building. An incel is someone who is involuntarily celibate. Nothing more, nothing less.
Not that simple, not every incel is a Catholic priest. The word gained a very specific meaning, it's not just someone on a dry spell anymore.
@@MinomeEslinde The reason that the word "incel" has been imbued with a "specific meaning" is so that the issue can be dismissed.
@@MinomeEslinde
Catholic priests aren't incels.
@@MinomeEslinde being an incel and being celibate are two completely different things
@@batissta44It's strange how the word "involuntarily" makes such a difference. The easy way out that very few Incels will ever take, make oneself choose for it, become a voluntarily celibate. Optional, join a seminary and become priest, or a monk. The Incels are enraged by their involuntarily celibacy, but have a total disregard for the bodily autonomy of other people. Who they want to subject to all kinds of involuntary acts, while they are complaining/whining about how they suffer under having something that is involuntary in their own lives. Another easy way out: start a political party to decriminalize seggs work plus promotes courtesy and respect towards seggs workers, get a shower one with a hose instead of just a stub high in the wall, wash oneself between the butt cheeks too, brush the teeth, wear clean underwear, clean the nails, get a job to earn some money, get an std test just to be sure, only if that's negative then go to the venue, be polite and respectful, choose from the menu, pay the agreed fee, get a shower at the venue, be polite and respectful also in isolation with the worker, use the preservative, get the nookie, boom no longer celibate and no one got hurt in the proces. No obligations attached either. But Incels are extremely picky and extremely unwilling to put in any work, not even the basics.
I missed the point. I clicked this video solely for the title. But only the first 2 minutes are talking about the topic.
Chris: Incel movement
Peterson: Incel movement -> psychopaths -> Tate -> his interviews -> something -> something...
Also element which sounds delicious
Also, Peterson it totally into the idea that women are good at picking the right guy and the guy is not good enough if they don't pick him. Then he criticizes learning to manipulate them.
When is Chris going to realize half his audience are incels 😂
Speak for yourself.
And define the word incel for me, most of you throwing that word around have zero clue what it means.
@@roserevancroix2308 im very curious to know his answer myself. these people are very quick to label someone's audience as an ist or a phobe simply because the creator can think independently from the woke hive mind.
@ryan-wx1bi 🦗🦗...
He's a fraud.
Very interesting and satisfying commentary. Superb video.
I've seen men survive everything: tragedy, illness, war, death.
Yet, the only thing I've seen that can completely destroy a man is a bad relationship.
@@kc6810 I'm gonna go ahead and call you a liar, because living alone is one, if not the most important factor in longevity/survival.
@@kc6810such BS lol.
@@adriadelafuente3648 women wouldnt live alone, most of them have friends, but if you look violence on women comes from partners
@@gaia7240 She used the word dying here.
There is a gap between dying and being hit. And no, hypothetical behavior is not an argument, not when the DV rate for lesbians is higher than straight couples.
@@adriadelafuente3648 I don't understand what you think it's hypothetical
The incel movement?
How are they a movement if they are part INVOLUNTARILY?
The root of it is not bad behavior from men. It's bad behavior from both men and women, driven by technology.
I don't think it has anything to do with pick up artists. The blackpillers usually mock those people since their motto is "looks is all that matters".
Both are different parts of the manosphere, that's what they have in common. But yes, the pick-up artist (PUAs) coaches and self-promoters are often frauds, grifters and sex "addicts" and their arguments are based on the Redpill, while the knowledge describing the Incel phenomenon is called the Blackpill.
I think social skills/status matters the most. I'm handsome and in the best shape of my life last yr. Not that many girls look my way, still fail to get easy slays cus my game sux lol.
exactly
It is all that matters. If you have severe autism there's no hope which is why I can't attract anyone
Chris, I've listened to JP for a long time. But he's developed the unseemly talent of interrupting. Even if you're right interrupting is rude, it wears people down and they will eventually flee. The patience you showed him was extraordinary and Impressive. Appreciate it and I appreciate your work.
Agreed
he's sucked for a couple years now, especially whenever he cries about online anonymity
Lol
nah@@trel9388
He has always interrupted a lot, it’s very frustrating and rude. I could barely get through his ‘interview’ with Matt Rife as it was just 70% him babbling and not prioritising his guest.
Ain't it interesting that Chris is an "expert/authority" on manosphere topics but never talks to any of the content creators from the space.....
It appears he speaks on it from a distance as he doesn't want his image muddied up in likeness to them.
He gets mad if called "Chad williamson" thanks to stardusk lmao
@@Albus_Rex - Stardusk is the best.
He is not an expert in anything dude.
What's the alternative? Marrying a woman who also went through half the town and now (above the age of 30) pretends to be a saint while keeping the same inflated ego (thinking she deserves the best while I should handle her at her worst) feminists have nowadays? And then inevitably get divorced once:
1. you get tired of being considered nothing more than a plowhorse in a unit (your family) which should have your back
2. she files for divorce because she's gonna be alright anyway thanks to the state benefits and the legal system
marriage has been completely ruined for several generations of men, and the men are just now waking up to this fact en masse.
You must think all unmarried self-sufficient women over 30 are hores.
That's MGTOW.
The question is why YOU couldn't be part of that half-town that went through the woman?
@@krisrap3828cos im ugly.
I was on the fence with Chris and this podcast over the past year, but I am all in now. He's been getting better and better and I genuinely enjoy his pod now.
Andrew Tate lives rent free in this guys skull.
He barely talks about him 😅😂...Others ask him about Tate..
@@mekareactsandreviews3026 No one asked him about Tate here but he went out of his way to bring him up. Peterson is 100% jaded that his daughter went to visit him in Romania and that Tate captured a large portion of what he considers his audience
For every incel there is a woman missing or sharing a partner.
All women share partners. And it is ok. That means they won't have anyone to blame but themselves when they grow old alone, chad can't grow old with all of them at once.
@@user-bs1wx1tb7e Polygamy is being installed in the western world. There is no final remorse. No divine justice and even if it was. It wouldn't bring back all the years that you should have had. No grudge can make up for the important life experiences that you never recieved, while being blamed for something that is not in your controle.
Men and women always found together in the past. There was no need to do anything special at all. People just naturally gravitated towards each others. But the ones who never experienced modern inceldom will always pretend that it's men's fault. Even in the faces of billions of men, who genuinely tried. Men who have put more effort into finding somebody, than the human beings in this clip.
As much as I love both these guys, they completely missed the mark on Tate. The reason he is popular is because he actually is winning in the meta, being rich and having had many women. We moved from a place where being above average attractive got you female attention to a “winner takes all” situation, where you’re competing against the highest status guy she ever slept with.
Just tate?
I think assuming many more men and women operate within that framework than actually do. The majority of men and women I’ve spoken to in real life and seen online are not overly concerned with that whole Tate idea of attractiveness. What you’re describing is not the ‘meta’ for most people
I wasn't confident talking to people but then I got a job as a field sales rep, and I had to spend at least 8 hours a day, 6-7 days a week talking to people.
I didn't get many sales but my confidence in talking to people grew exponentially, and I think my social anxiety was moot at one point.
That was 20 years ago and for years I've been working from home and not talking to people so I've regressed a lot.
I know "exposure therapy" is what it was, and what I need to do again but I haven't made it happen yet.
I have been trying to grow my circle of friends though, in the hopes that my social skills improve again etc.
Jordan Peterson describes psychopaths as "emotionally stable." I would have to disagree and say that they are actually "emotionally dead."
@@mekareactsandreviews3026 1:52
They've emotionally flat, which presents as stable if you don't know better. I'm not a psychopath but I come across as incredibly even tempered, many people have told me so, to which I laugh and say if only you could see inside my head.
@@jonrazo7912i have found my people lmao
sounds like the average modern woman.
Guys are jaded with pua because they've realized it doesn't work if you lack looks or status/money. This is what predates blackpill philosophy. And it's not a movement ffs. How can chris and jordan be so clueless
Jordan is a boomer and Chris never had those problems
Nobody with high LMS could understand
@@ralfrudiger7276Similar to how boomers talk about "just buy a house, because back in my day you could work at a gas station and have a family, house and white picket fence."
Yeah well it's not your day buddy, y'all released the females now we have to deal with this bullshit 💊
@@dreamingmusic3299 if it were so effective then it wouldnt be dead. Pretty much no one is doing cold approaches in the mall etc. Also, just imagine a short unattractive dude trying to fake confidence and do "negging" or other crap. How effective could that be?
@@dreamingmusic3299 just an observation that their presence diminished a lot. Same goes for clubbing and other social activities. Just by virtue of this, pua is not really tenable anymore. It's all about online game(and LMS) now
Great podcast and phenomenal guest. Thank you for having this conversation. I needed a positive starting point and your podcast is helping. Then you
@@dreamingmusic3299Tf are you talking about? Have you even watched the video?
It’s hard to change but from being an alcoholic and womanizer/sex addict in my youth, things started to dry up with women as I got older. Probably because I was dealing with more experienced women or now that I was older, older women didn’t look at me as hard “D” like they did in my 20s. At any rate, I started to get into Red Pill, Mgtow, etc. the reality is it’s my fault, I lived a double life and reckless. Normal stable women have taken interest in me, I either ignored them, sabotaged, and or went for the easy promiscuous girls that led nowhere.
For all men struggling, think about what you are doing in your 24 hours. Are you constantly watching porn, red pill channels, video games, smoking weed, drinking miller lite, binging Netflix.
I’d tackle all addictions first, including nicotine and be more productive. See how this changes things with peace and relationships with others.
Ass much as I love both of these gentlemen, there was very little about incels in here. PUA's are NOT incels by definition.
i am married 28yrs and am an incel. She made me that way.
At this point, it's your fault for not cheating. If you've tried everything you can to change this without it, and she refuses to budge, you should've cheated. Got no one to blame but yourself at that point.
So he's calling all incels psychopaths... I'm not surprised, struggling men are the easiest group to shit on for virtue points.
PSA: Incel, definition
Incel (involuntary celebate) is a gender neutral term. Coined by an incel woman(!). The largest group of Incels are handicapped and/or disfigured people, followed by people with non-hetero-normal sexual orientation, then followed by heterosexual men, the vast overwhelming majority of which aren't misogynists but timid, shy, intimidated by women and/or the mating game and - often as a result - depressed.
To emphasize: Noisemakers on the internet aren't representative of Incels, despite what the misinformed public or some dimwitts on reddit think about the term.
Please stop perpetuating this ill-informed misrepresentation of Incels at large.
Thank you.
miking incels for money and viewers is the job of all these podcasts especially one who feature jp
I just don't get it? Where is the big problem with being an "incel"? If you leave them alone and you don't constantly hit on them, they would just get on with their lifes.
But I know, being single and a man is more a less a crime nowadays. Either you are a predator or you are a sick creep, who can't get any girls. Whilst a woman living with her cats? Hey, she is having a blast!
To my understanding the term "incel" implies a certain amount of mysogyny and general resentment. By which I mean the label, not the people who technically qualify. This might be one of those cases where the public discusses a thing that doesn't really exist. Like, most dudes who opt out of dating would probably not call themselves "incels", because aligning themselves with such a group has nothing to with their thought process in the matter.
@@Volkbrecht ok. Let’s say I’m NOT smoking crack every week. Is there a word for people like me?
Ok ok, now imagine, I’m NOT having sex every week….now suddenly there’s a word for people like me? 😂 just for not doing something?
Yea, yall can blow me ❤
@@Volkbrecht Well, if you opt out of dating there is much more mysogyny and general resentment involved. Because there is a reason, why they stopped dating. And I know a lot of them. And it is not because they want to be closer to god. Speaking for myself, I opted out of dating a long time ago and even rejected a lot of woman, because I did not want sex or a relationship or else. Even in my teenage years, I rejected woman, although I "as one of my female friends said "could have any girl I want to". And whe I dated or had sex, they have always been older then me, because I could not stand the things, girls in my age had to say. My only relationsship I had, was with a woman, that was 20 years older than me. Oh boy, you can't imagine how much hate I got especially from young women. Some men found it ridicilous (mostly those with a wife and children), but all the others were ok with it and some said I hit the jackpot. Since my girlfriend couldn't even go to the grocery store, where often enough not some "normal guy" hit on her, because "hey, dating is most normal thing, and every occasion and every place is now free to get dates" I really don't get, where the problem with incels is. When I was younger, I also knew an actress and model and she had the fucking same problem: Nearly no occasion, where not some random dude (who even always was about ten grades under her league) hit on her. And these men would be considered normal. So explain to me: Where is the problem with incels?
No problem.
It is used as an insult although in the word is the part "involuntarily" so those don't want to be alone yet they are (could be many reasons).
Rather than laugh about them or insult them, they should be viewed as some sort of victims. Society should lift them up and msybe help them imo.
Being incel isn't the crime. Hitting on women who don't t know you then raging out when it doesn't work is. Wait that's not really a crime either it's just assy and gross.
Let me guess: he will blame it on male competency and not taking responsibility. Not women being super choosy and only wanting chad. I’m in good shape, probably stronger than 98% my age, a top 10% income earner for my age in a f500 working on a second stem degree…. Doesn’t matter. Women want guys with an attractive face
I'm from South Africa. Are you willing to immigrate?
The irony is they will call him "the incel king" even though he says the most opposite "incel" take so i don't know why he won't at least admit women play some part in this and that the world is becoming way more superficial due to the internet
If it's short term they'll pay more attention to appearance. If it's long-term they'll pay more attention to your competence. And your experience doesn't speak for everyone else. Maybe you just need a new hunting ground, Kraven.
You have to be a lot of things, in shape and wealthy is helpful but you have to know how to navigate the chaotic mind of women and be competent with it. Plus there's a tone about this rant that makes me think you've just discovered the red pill. It's ok, you'll accept the way it is and it'll pass.
maybe it's your personality.
If you realize "reasonably good women" go after the "manipulation act" what does that mean about them rejecting the honest guys tho?
There is valuable information in the PUA community. The extremes are unappealing.
But the *results* matter, and one is getting results and the other *isn't*
He unintentionally described women manipulating guys with fake emotions, so women are also followers of the pickup artistry, but on the recipient end. I’m sick of all the manipulation because people can’t just be real… I’d rather date a weird girl over the pick me girl cause at least the weird girl is weird and not a liar too.
This was a great and sharp discussion about the change and development of some men who struggle in the dating scene that I really enjoyed hearing you both talk.
It is heartbreaking, because if they go the resentment path they could gain a temporal and real benefit, so why shouldn't they? It's a deep moral question with no easy answer. From my perspective given enough repetition and time, it will backfire eventually. Because it is a competition, a zero sum game. Nor is truly making the world or the person better. It's a destructive path with no end goal.
Not being resentful or give in to temptation is a hard thing to do. The whole bible and many more books are about trying to be a good person, avoiding resentment. But the choice is theirs to make. At the end of the day I believe in their capacity of choosing and becoming the person they want to be. They should be aware that basing things on hate, will take a heavy toll.
Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty is the example that comes to mind about "your enemy is your harshest critic..." (That or Batman and the Joker).
What is really strange in general from a male perspective, is that social, media, dating apps, etc., instead of bringing the genders more together than ever, it resulted in men having very few, to no options at all, I think it got even worse tham ever before.
all the advantages are on womens side, more than ever, but its now so exaggerated that men cannot even remotely compare the life and options, and advantages of their looks match.
Tate is more in sync with reality than JBP.
(And I have no ambition to be like Andrew or anything of that sort.)
JP is looking so tired and older here. It has been a tough few years for him. He seems like he’s fading. But his tie is spritely.
True
the historic link between the PUAs and the blackpills/incels makes so much sense actually.
Incel is not a movement. It is a description of certain circumstances.
As for guys getting more mad after trying to do the PUA thing.....That is a result of failure, especially if you have been conned into thinking you are not going to succeed. If they do manage to get laid using those tactics, they are not going to suddenly become remorseful and feel bad about who they have become.
7:41 - It's not a strange way of looking at the world at all, it's quite logical
"What a psychopath does is feign competence"
That's rich considering the source.
Inceldom started to become more observable with the internet, but I would say it started in the 60s/70s with the permissive society and the lax attitude toward sexuality. They are bitter because they have been effectively told that for them to be full citizens of society they have to be sexually successful and are able to get into relationships. That's what happens when promiscuity in general becomes a virtue instead of a chaotic mess.
I think people simply misunderstand what's operative in pickup artistry.
By far the biggest principle to pickup artistry is NOT feigning confidence, character play, peacocking, or even becoming more attractive.
The number one principle of pickup artistry is VOLUME!
If you are 18, yeah... you've got plenty of chances to meet women who are single, and there's plenty of chances for them to meet you... but if you are still single at 25, not only are a lot of women taken off the market, but the ones who remain are distributed randomly among the people you meet. You aren't in an insular little Frat-sorority society where everybody knows who's single. You're in the real world now... a world where you OFTEN meet people that you have know known shared contacts with.
Given that scenario, if you are unwilling to cold-open strangers, you will ONLY have access to dating opportunities within your social circle... and as people your age start moving away, having kids, pairing up... your social circle will only get smaller. By the time you're 30, you will MAYBE have like 5 close friends, and an extended social circle of like... 20 people.
So as you get older, you've got 2 choices.
1. Wait for your social circle to sh!t out a single girl (could take years) get invested, try to fight off the other 4 single guys in the group all jockeying after the same girl... ultimately, she selects one of you MAX and strains the dynamic of the entire group...
2. Learn to approach women. Learn to overcome rejection. Learn to communicate with confidence and sexuality without scaring women.
In business terms, it's what's known as an "elevator pitch."
You practice your elevator pitch, not because you lack depth... but because if you sit on your hands waiting for the perfect opportunity, you'll be waiting forever. You prepare for LESS THAN PERFECT opportunities.
And btw, there's a concept in pickup known as "true signals"
These are very important because they are primarily the focus of women. Women can look at your hair, your muscles, your car, your watch, whatever... and those are attractive to be sure. BUT, there are signals that are A LOT harder to fake.
For example... strong eye contact. In the wild, it's very hard for a male to maintain eye contact with a female without being an alpha. Why? Because the alpha could be right behind them getting ready to kill them. Strong eye contact is VERY compelling to women for that reason, and wondering eye contact tells a woman that you are not alpha.
Another example, you can tell a woman you are the most charming man ever, but she won't believe you... because words are cheap. But if she catches a couple girls looking at you, that's much more persuasive.
In other words, there's a certain way that successful men act and carry themselves... and I wouldn't say it's impossible to fake... but I would say that if that isn't "you" it will be VERY challenging to cultivate those ways... and what's more, practice seems to be the only way to acquire a better set of "true signals."
It's not a movement. That word doesn't help men to move forward in the dating market.
Vol-cel here. A happy man 😅
*A Person, especially a Man shouldn't be judged or put down if he decides to open himself up to others, making himself vulnerable.*
*Its admirable if someone says something like ''I want love and intimacy but I feel as if I cannot achieve this in this society and their standards''*
*and talking to each other.*
*But its another thing if you start generalizing women, hating them without differenciating and even reject other people with the same problems*
*just because they are women. It plays into the whole politicized modern day gender war and is absolutely counterproductive to achieve what they*
*actually want in live.*
*Women dislike it just as much if they get generalized as men do and the frustration is understandable but we should rather blame political agendas, the constant presence of social media which allows everyone to get their opinion out there no matter the emotional state or the fact that these kind of people often get viewed as a representation for a whole Gender.*
_Not a single person that is lonely at the moment should be called ''Incel'' or ''Femcel'' and deserves a fitting shoe to form a pair_
_Because a TRUE incel or Femcel, who's actually Misoginistic or Misandric are not a representation for these kind of people_
It's real funny to me in the last 40 years I've come to understand about merchandising advertising most importantly salesmanship and this pickup artist type of deal and pimping yourself out and I'm starting to understand all of these " concepts " are pretty much intertwined with one another
BUT these concepts are far removed from oneself unless you actually chose to be those concepts and you actually becomes those concepts in which "most " women actually desire most
so just because i don´t get no matches on online dating apps, and cold approach doesn´t work for me, i am an incel ?
it is also your fault do not forget that part... JP says there is nothing wrong with women but plenty wrong with men... lol
Incel is just someone who is not chosen and ignored by women. If society isnt happy with how pickup and red pill has evolved then dont its not our fault. Women are the ones who dictate what men learn and do.
😂tf
There is no moment. Thats a strange composition of ideas.
At 7:57 I was just like "oh my ... where's the transcript" ... the quotation capacity of this conversation is flying pass standard thresholds
Tate smashed Peterson's daughter.
That's what I'm saying. Jordan Peterson will break down in tears about how so many people are struggling especially men. I think that's legit. When it comes down to tates followers struggling, all of a suddenly their basement dwelling losers. Why doesn't he care about them? because the common denominator is Tate.
He's mad that his wisdom couldn't prevent the female nature, that he claims Tate is wrong about. 😂
Tldr; Peterson just hates tate😂
You where there recording it?
It's more of an epidemic than a movement
Something missing from this video clip is their definition of an incel. For me to formulate an informed decision, I need a specific definition of an incel. And no, not YOUR definition, I need THEIR definition. I can tell you that when I was young, I was socially awkward. I didn't have a girlfriend in high school, nor many friends to speak of. I could have become bitter from it, but I didn't. In fact I ended up getting married. However that was back in the late '70s / early '80s. There was no internet for me to commiserate with others and influence my thinking. It's one thing to analyze "incels" and talk about how bad they are. It's a whole different discussion to understand how this all came about. Our society as a whole is a LOT different now, and not in a good way. I've seen plenty of videos of the perverse dating atmosphere nowadays. It's not good. And divorce laws are still stuck in the '60s & '70s. They have not kept up AT ALL. Then throw in academia and our society's notion that men are oppressors, especially white men. There's "toxic masculinity" and the "Me Too" movement. In the meantime, women on Only Fans are celebrated. Guys who are accused of sexual misconduct in college are automatically guilty with no due process. Women can do it all and don't need a man. Traditional blue collar manufacturing jobs have pretty much disappeared. Right now there's a lack of wholesome role models for young men. All this stuff has a cumulative negative effect. Being a senior white male, I feel there's a target on my back. I'm literally at the bottom of the barrel right now. Glad I don't care. One thing's for sure, I'm glad I'm not a young adult amidst all this. These "incels" didn't just pop up. I think that society created them. Just like a good cop or a good politician can be corrupted by "the system", so can young men be corrupted by "the system". And right now "the system" sucks.
Very interesting, Chris. 😊
Dude has no idea what we're even talking about, he's been in a nuthouse for 2 years.
Or you're hating just to hate. Most people who leave comments like yours would probably be picked up by an algorithm searching for you types with ease lmfao
The dudes who self identify as 'incel' don't exist in any meaningful numbers.
You both are intentionally framing this in a very disingenuous way.
The only way to suggest there's a 'movement' would be to use it unilaterally across many subgroups; as if the vague derogatory function of the word has intellectual merit.
How can having a discussion about people who don't see themselves as the subject in question be anything more than propaganda?
>The dudes who self identify as 'incel' don't exist in any meaningful numbers.
maybe they don't call themselves "incels", but there is a rapidly growing mass of lonely, frustrated, and angry men that don't have any connection to women, despite wanting it.
they also ignore the fact that women find 90% of men unattractive online at least.... I mean is that mens fault? is it heck... does not stop JP though throwing HIS customer base under the bus whilst making money from them
Rush spoke about Journalist making their career on destroying someone elses.