I've always had a feeling he would return. When Oryx killed Sathona and Xi Ro in the Ascendant Realm, the Book of Sorrows says "and these were true deaths". But Oryx conjured them back to life by using cunning and killing. After we killed Oryx in the Kings Fall raid, we crafted the Touch of Malice, made with the heart of Oryx. I think we'll accidentally conjure Oryx back to life by exploring and inquisiting. That's was Oryxs nature
i think we're end up teaming up with oryx, savathun and xivu to take on the darkness. what happened to the touch of malice anyway? was it lost in the first towers destruction?
Could you imagine bungie brings back touch of malice with a whole lot of advertising, it gets its own zero hour esk mission and Savathun snatches it right before we can leave. What a trick that would be.
I hope he returns. For me he is my favorite character out of the Destiny lore. This dlc has been an absolute treat for me being a huge hive fan but this adds an extra cherry on top and hype. This will probably how they will bring back Kings Fall. Best raid ever.
@@collinbell6558 bungie seems to hate scout rifles, especially 200RPM+ ones. I hope they bring back kings fall or wrath of the machine though, I just feel like they ain’t bringing back touch of malice haha
On the Osmiomancy Gloves lore tab, there are THREE important things that Savathun has already done. One, altering a Moon's course, the Hive already do that. They created those War Moons when they destroyed the Ammonites and, Two, linked them with interdimensional rifts, essentially moving armies into a Hive ship. Three, Savathun moved into a black hole, removing herself, and her fleet, from time and space. Sounds like there is more to the story. Maybe all three spoke to the Deep.
Considering Savathun's whole plan regarding her theft of the Light hinges on tricking us into recovering Savathun's memories for her, I am inclined to believe the option where she details stealing Mars back from the Witness, though not necessarily as a gift for us. She knew that Guardians would need the power of the Relic to access Deepsight and thus brought it back, with the piece of the Glaive conveniently nearby on her ship, to start the process of recovering her memories
@@DTK625 In the mission where we get the shard of Savathun's prison, we fight Savathun's right hand. That wizard went and found Savathun after she was resurrected, and was (probably) the one who filled her in on her plan. That wizard I believe was also the first of the Lucent Brood.
"Taking involves reforming matter in a self-contained reality, where the creator defines past present and future" The power to Take, is the power to alter someone's Destiny. I see what you did there bungie. I see.
What If the two truths are that we have the ability to move worlds and the taken king will return are true but, our ability to move worlds make us the taken king. The former truth creating the latter.
In the subclass mission for new supers back in Forsaken, some of the dialogue criticizes us for defeating oryx but not taking his mantle, as someone had to be the leader of the Taken. This instance would bring that full circle!
she said "the taken king" not oryx, not her brother. the taken king could be anyone, as she herself said she could have been the taken queen if she cared to
While I'd love to see "The Taken King" I have a theory for why the first option on Savathun's list may be true as well: during the Parasyte GL quest we learn from the worm that Savathun had deceived the Witness as well and she did that to protect Earth/the Traveler. In this way we could say that Earth was in her care. If we apply that to the missing worlds, what if that's part of the meaning as well?
Her actions weren't to protect Earth, but to protect the Traveler. She didn't care about humanity itself on Earth, but about her plan to eventually obtaining the power of light.
@@quavoking Humanity were just lucky that she was so invested in protecting the traveller which gave humanity a chance to live. She never intentionally saved humanity, they were just in the right place at the right time.
Very neat investigation. Also with the Witness there is the line in one of Sagiras memories when referencing the Witness…It’s not the Darkness but something that wears the Darkness like a cloak . The lore in this release is just staggering, in size, content and impact.
I think this is pretty important lore that I'm gonna mention and I hope you see it, the tusked allegiance seasonal helmet has lore on it depicting the hive subjugating a hive light bearer, this suggests that every hive light bearer most likely has to go through the same process considering that guardians lose all their memories and any prior allegiances don't matter, the light bearer attempted to fight back but couldn't and was killed over and over again until he was subjugated. Think of this like another Crow situation when he became a light bearer, a light bearer could be molded into serving any cause whether good or evil, so something to consider when we kill the hive light bearers is that they could have been brought to the side of good if they hadn't been forced to subjugate under the witch queen.
I think that is referencing the fact that his RAID is returning. Destiny has already announced that they will be bringing back old raids and rotating them as time goes by. Kingsfall being one of them.
When Savathun says ‘move worlds’ makes me want to know how she means it. World could mean differing things with context, so she might not be referring to planet type worlds.
I'm surprised Myelin didn't consider the possibility of a ghost resurrecting Oryx. That's it immediately what I thought of when I heard Savathicc mention this.
Wow, mind blown. The Witch Queen has been a breath of fresh air for storytelling. I’m wondering if the power to take for guardians could be our door to other worlds after The Final Shape.
Savathun was able to bring back the dark blade as the light blade with the hive ghosts and he was dead for a long time. The main question when it comes to ghost reviving someone for the first time how much of the body has to be leftover in order for the ghost to revive them? In one of the trailers we see the hive ghost rebuilding parts of dead hive then reviving them and the worms in the dead hive are also most likely dead due to not being feed so there’s no cross influence between the hive ghost and hungry worms If I recall oryx’s body was last reported on titan and in the kings fall raid when we see his body fall it sort of crystallizes and turn black, so if his body is still on relatively good condition and is still on titan when it returns a hive ghost could possibly revive him
We were nothing more than a skeleton when we were resurrected. So my assumption is that you don't need much to bring someone/something back as a Guardian.
JosieRiv Yes Titan is in orbit of Saturn but Kings Fall location wise was pretty much closer to Planet Saturn while Titan was further out in orbit. Oryx however if fireteam stayed while timers was ticking you'd see him drifting further and further to Saturn. I really don't understand why he would be mentioned to be located on Titan.🤷🤷
Yeah the guardians don’t have worms any more but I’m not sure if the regular casts still have them I haven’t been paying attention when shooting them in the head
I hope "the taken king will return" will mean both options that you mentioned. It being the witness as the og taken king and it being a 4th wall thing and the raid from TTK will return. I think TTK has the most likely hood to return as it ties to Savathunn the most with it being us killing her brother lol
Because of the wording of Savanthun’s claim, I personally think it’s Oryx. “Rise again,” to me, implies either death or some sort of absence. With The Witness essentially pulling the strings behind the scenes this whole time, what she said can definitely be interpreted as them finally coming to the forefront of our conflict. But again, I think (hope) her wording is better suited in reference to Oryx.
I’m her last moments in this physical realm I believe Savathun was very honest. Because we are pracausal beings we have the power to change the shape of destiny. In term , we ARE the final shape. The final shape is the final evolution in our species. Smart Species die out after evolving past mortality. To become immortal is to be worshipped or…. To be forgotten. Maybe that is why history does out. The pinnacle is hit and the potential is sniffed out as is everything within the comos. Physics determines our inevitable end through feasible hypothesis. Yet here we are. Humanity (it’s potential) is the gift we’ve been given to shape our universe. To combat destiny and it’s fundamental hold on our perception of reality
Nah don’t think last one is referring to the witness AT ALL. It said rise again. In order to rise again u must have fallen to begin with. And the witness has never been stated to have been defeated and the Oryx is both referred to as the taken king and FELL in battle. It’s 100% referring to oryx
My theory is that "the Taken King will rise again" is one of the truths but it doesnt refer to Oryx and instead refers to another possible darkness servant like Toland, the Fanatic, or Calus
In a way I hope the Taken King returning is true in both the ways you mentioned. If any in-game character was to break the 4th wall it would be Savathûn, especially since she’s already done so with her song. Also, I just really freakin’ want Kings Fall to come back lol
The Touch of Malice was Oryx's way of living past true death; he didn't expect to be defeated, but if he ever was, he wanted a way to learn from it. Thus, he arranged for his killer (us) to find the blueprints to the weapon, which we did, and use it. As Oryx describes, by using the Touch of Malice (which is also Oryx) our philosophies merge and mix, until at last we come to a new philosophy stronger than the Sword Logic. And I believe that the day we find that new philosophy, we will have successfully mantled Oryx as First Navigator and bring him back from True Death the way he did with Savathun and Xivu Arath.
I'm definitely leaning towards Guardians unlocking this Darkness power to move worlds/Take, and that it'll relate to (what I'm highly confident will be) a new Darkness subclass that we get from the Lightfall campaign. Otherwise I suppose I'm quite torn between the other three.
I find it interesting when Savathun is talking about the return of Mars, she starts 4 of 5 with “This is the truth” where the final one she jumps right in about the witness without the previous statement. I haven’t listened to the other recordings as of yet to see if a similar pattern is present, but I would be intrigued to know. Perhaps that is our clue is the verbiage and structure of the sentence?
The whole power of the Witness makes sense to become subclass since it does connect a lot of darkness abilities we know about. We know that it has something to with time and gravity like Deepsight and we know it's the same ability used to make to Taken and the Nightmares could also be tied to this. The only remaining darkness abilities that can't be tied to this are the Thorn poison abilities, the Scorn, and Nokris's necromancy. However since Thorn seems to be tied to decaying then I believe these 3 abilities are also connect to one subclass which will give us 3 darkness subclasses.
"The Taken King" i think the witness was in control of Mars and they gave it back for whatever reason, in the last cutscene of the campaign where we see the witness, we see Mars in that set of planets under its control, i dont think we see Io or Titan though
I also think, the witness is meant to be the returning taken king, because he was there before. The Witness from what we know was there during our collapse. Since he's back, I could totally see him being the taken king Savathun is talking about
My quest was still there after I completed that part, I did it like 5 times, I realized that the mission end timer was like 150 seconds, and it seemed to get longer every time I did it and then abandoned mission after it gave me the completed pop-up
I suspect the ability to move worlds may relate to a mechanic in game to choose what planets to install/ uninstall in a future expansion, similar to the way the Master Chief Collection handles game installs. Probably wishful thinking but could be neat. Bungie does like to tie lore like that to in game mechanics that lie above the moment to moment gameplay level
Can you imagine that in the future of destiny maybe the guardians can learn how to take and make taken of their own. Or maybe a new type of subclass that has to do with the taken since we already have stasis powers. Maybe There will be 2 more darkness subclasses and one of them will have something to do with the taken.
I've already encountered six memories by playing on all three characters; each one of them gave me a set of two. It doesn't have to be by joining other people only.
I think the Taken powers would make sense as a subclass, if it took the place of a summoner/necromancer archetype from other RPG's. Or, based on the new information we have, it could simply be a temporal manipulation subclass, and I'm sure people can think of the possible applications of that.
It could just as well be speaking of Nokris. His bargain with Savathun was not a one sided exchange she was to give him insight into "the dreaming mind" which is Quoria, blade transformed. This taken mind was Savathun's tool in creating more taken. So perhaps it is not Oryx who will rise again but his last heir to his dynasty.
Do we know what power we're using when we interact with the dark aura things around the Throne World? It might be stated otherwise, and I'm just unaware, but maybe these are The Witnesses powers in their infancy as it seems we're either taking something that isn't there, and pulling it into our reality.
It's just dark power. Darkness powers are linked with memory so we use that power to reveal memories. This is how we are able to enter old, locked away, forgotten areas in the throne world.
Visually they appear to similar to the Taken energy/matter/power. Which is also similar to the Relics effects and that of the time distortions on Mars. Mylen even read out the Taken energies traits and capabilities from the Exotic. It having the capacity for time manipulation, matter alteration and even being able to exist in other realities. Frankly, it seems likely that they are all linked to Taken energy. Or rather the product of its use. The way the Exotics lore tab states that in a the hands of someone more intelligent this power could do far more than creating an army. Savathûn saying she has the capabilities to be the Taken Queen just adds weight to that. Us getting a Taken energy Darkness subclass isn't that far fetched. Plot wise it could be a way we can, literally, gain ground by rescuing the other planets.
I think the power to move/take worlds could definitely be a taken subclass we are getting a corruption subclass at some point so we need a third darkness subclass to match the light only thing I can think of unless they make a new element like stasis
On the destinations map, Saturn is there. It has no locations in game so I can only assume that it’s on the map now because the dreadnaught will come out of the content vault sometime this year
I have 2 thoughts. Firstly with "The Taken King Will Rise Again", could this be in the context of the story with Savathun using Nokris' necromancy/a ghost? OR is it in a meta context that Kings Fall will be back in a future season and it's not exactly tied to lore/story it's just a thing that will happen in game, a tease for future seasons content. Secondly, when Mars floats past The Witness, the cloudy taken fissures look like claw marks, like a giant claw had swiped Mars 'out of the way', like Myelin mentioned that they were moving planets out of their way.
I am pretty sure the Dares of Eternity is the only place in Destiny games that isn't supposed to be canon. Everything else seems to be, and in quite a mandatory/serious way. So Savathün isn't just saying how King's Fall is coming to the game. But regarding your 2nd thought, that's a really good one... Probably won't get that out of my head till we know anything more of it.
Savathuns apparent interest in moving planets from one plane to another I think could explain her part of her interest in the Distributary. It’s another plane. Perhaps part of her ploy in the dreaming city and her desire to find the homeworld of the awoken, is she wanted to see if she could enter in and move something there
Do remember a while back at end of D2 campaign we saw locations and the Dreadnaught was one of them and didn't Luke Smith say it was sort of a hidden roadmap?
I think Xivu, Savathuun, and Oryx are doing whatever they can to get rid of their worm's hunger. Even though Savathuun wanted to kill oryx, it was only out of competition/love. It's what their worm would want. Conquest/Deceit/War. She wouldn't have a shrine for Oryx, or have revived Alah Khul (the dark blade, now the light blade), if she truly hated him, or didn't have some elaborate plan to bring him back. I mean, imagine, Oryx the taken King, with all his might, with the light, resurrection, and his well known taken powers. The throne world concept would just go out the window at that point.
She said in last season, she was no villain, and we were no hero, we are paracausal. Probably implying that our paths at some point were going to cross.
I dont consider her a villain, shes like an anti hero, she has a goal and a plan and will do anything to acheive it, fuck everyone who gets in her way kinda thing. She just sees us as tools, she doesnt care much for the darkness either as she trapped Rhulk in the pyramid. Unlike Oryx who had a hissy fit and seeked revenge for Crota whcih lead to his demise, she was like meh to all her childrens deaths, so to her they were just a means to an end. Sure might sound heartless but it's kinda understandable considering everything she has gone through for billions of years.
There is lore somewhere about Titan being affected by the Darkness when they first arrived during the collapse. Titan 'bulged' or something to that effect.
for all we know the " soon " part of " the power to move worlds will soon be yours " could be in reference to the new raid. lightfall is next year, and that really isn't soon at all. i initially thought it to be her referencing our next subclass, i mean. lightfall. come on, it'd make sense, and we do know we are getting more darkness subclasses. but myelin's calling it a mechanic makes me think it could play a part in the raid. it is definitely soon after all, it's on the 5th.
I wonder what happened to the other species that were on the planets that dissapeared. For example, what happened to the Cabal that were on Mars once it disappeared. We see at the begining of the Witch Queen campaign that they are getting ready to attack Savathun's ship, but what were they doing while Mars was not accessible? It's really strange when you think about it.
The Witness gave Oryx the power of "The Taken King". The Witness can give whoever he want this power. So The Taken King can return without issues, but does not need to be Oryx. There will be a new The Taken King and Oryx was not the first.
Notice that the way the Witness is looking at the planets is the same way we are trough the director....hence ' soon you will have the power to move worlds' Is bungie creating a way to add or remove planets from vault (DCV might become interactive)
I think moving worlds will be a raid mechanic next year or the year after when we fight The Witness. Like maybe in the raid we are taking worlds back from them
We know a raid is coming back from D1, it makes sense for it to be Kings Fall. We also know guardians are revived from those previously killed. My wacky theory right now is that were getting Kings Fall back, Oryx having the light, and this would explain why there's going to be hive guardians in the raid
Another thing to add: Before the Witch Queen in Beyond Light, we see a reunion between Elsie and Ana Bray, meaning Ana Bray is not only alive, but also is the only planetary vendor among the planets taken which survived and escaped, which means that Mars was taken in a different way? By Savathun? Idk grasping at straws here
I think what she means about the taken king returning is the witness becoming the taken king because I belive it was the darkness that gave oryx the power to take, or that was the worm gods.
Oryx may become an arisen along with the other bosses in Kingsfall and thats why the raid comes back. (If Kingsfall is the next reprised raid of course) aka the taken king rises again
In the lore card for when Auryx killed the worm god and learned to take. He did say “he will be the king of shapes” and the last dlc is called the finale shape. So I think oryx will return in that dlc also the card is literally called the king of shapes
I think the witness took mars and used it’s power to look through the past at our golden age but I think savathun learned the power too and brought mars back and that’s why the glaive piece was in her ship and her ship was there to begin with. They even comment about how mars has areas of temporal distortion that show our golden age. The temporal energy areas have an outline that looks similar to the taken auras which relates to the power to take.
What is interesting is that all her claims about Mars could have some truth to them. Perhaps the Witness had taken Mars to examine it for clues about the collapse, only for Savathun to yank it away from him before he was finished, leaving all those scars across it
I think the nine returned Mars, because in dares of eternity there is a golden goop wall like the black goop wall the witness has and the golden dust at the witness’s feet is similar to the tunnels that propel you in DoE
I feel like one of the planets in the Witness cutscene is also Io, as you see a green planet to the right. I believe that since the first one is false, that means the second one is probably true. After all, we see it in the cutscene. The last two are up for interpretation, but I’d say the third is true, as if the witness can do it, I believe it’s possible we may be able to as well.
Theory: if kings fall returns with the dreadnought like most people believe it will be from the DCV like vault of glass did ( bungie has already said that another raid from d1 will return this year ) Wouldn’t that make her right while also having her break the fourth wall.. again
I hope Kings Fall doesn’t come before Wrath of the Machine, an actual fun raid. God I hated Kings Fall, to many mechanics and standing on plates, not enough freedom as a playerbase to speed up encounters through strategy and available dps. Oryx encounter was too drawn out because of the mechanics requiring light eater ogre blights to do damage disregarding our own dps.
@@Clit_Yeastwood it’s all but confirmed it’s kings fall they have the model for darkblade in the witch queen so the sunless cell strike will return also sorry bub you don’t have to do kings fall if you don’t want too tho
Damn, so they'll take away Vault to give us other D1 raids? Can they please stop removing cool and good things from the game? Still, I'm happy to see King's Fall raid return
Imagine having to fight Savathun and Oryx at the same time in the Raid it's like she creates an illusion of her dead brother by using the touch of malice as he fights alongside her in the Throne world.
18:06 but why would it be rising again? it never fell or died, it was just there, the way Savathûn words it implies that the "taken king" will rise from the grave, maybe like how Oryx conjured back Xivu Arath and Savathûn with war and trickery
What if the traveler wanted to be sealed away? More past that, what if we had an ally if not someone who knows that plane well and could keep it safe. Toland probably. What if the traveler could chill in the ….ascendent realm, i think it’s called, and we still maintain our connection to the light? I can see the gamble but same time Traveler better step up for once, Put the same faith in us as we have in it. (Im referring to what happened to the fallen and the possible hive)
Myelin, but what about the Traveler appearing in Savathûn's throne world during the later half of the campaign? Ikora even acknowledges in the last campaign mission that the Traveler disappears and reappears in the Last City. Who moved the Traveler there? Was it Savathûn? Running with her dialogue from in game and her reasoning for taking entire worlds, this fact just adds to the evidence that Savathûn does indeed have the power of The Witness.
All the Mars reappearing stuff could maybe be kinda true I feel like you can piece them out into a coherent story. The darkness made the planet go, but Savathun learnt new power from the nine to pull the planet back. Or something like that? On a different topic, I've been thinking about this ancient proxy war and how possibly cyclical it is. For example. Are the larvae baby worm god? The traveler seems to go around and poke out spices with potential and if not run away. The hive might have high potential to paracausal forces which seems heavily hinted in the campaign. ("How is she so powerful?!") The nine are proto witness? (You would think they would not be unique to Sol.) Thinking about how changed the Emissary is, and how they been trying to come into our reality. If Foundament was a prison world, the traveler must have had forces to put em there. Were they the race killed by the Hive?
Has the lore actually explained when Mars came back? They seem to be vague on it. Was it before or after the excorcism? Could she have brought it back before she died?
I think we're gonna get some kind of Taken/true darkness subclass next year and thats what Savathun is really hinting at "the taken king will rise again" isnt talking about Oryx but us after all Bungie did say they're already working on a new subclass
You missed a secret part of that first clip. If you wait about 30sec after Savathun talks, a bunch of ghosts pop up beside the hive witches in the hologram.
i haven’t watched the whole video but i remember clearly Quoria replicated Oryx’s original form and it was never destroyed, then Oryx gave Quoria to Savathun so she also had Oryx and she studied with Noctris and knows how to control the taken (we’ve seen this on Io). i think “gave” Oryx power and he will return with his memory thanks to darkness (enclave or deep sight) that’s my explanation for Kings Fall Returning
Just a few clarifications: Since season 15 Savathün has completely lost control of the Taken, and presumably they're directly obeying the Witness now. We also killed Quria in season 14. And so far, we've never seen Deepsight/the Relic actually bringing something back to life, but just showing past versions of objects and places. And in the end, King's Fall may just come back for the same gameplay reasons like Vault of Glass, and no more than that. And also like VoG, simply found in the "Legends" section of the Director.
One thing I don't understand is how the throne world is still standing after we killed her. Does it have something to do with the light or that her ghost is still alive and therefore she is not truly dead?
Throne Worlds aren't tied to the lives of the people that make them as far as we know. We killed Crota in his throne world in TDB but re-visited it in TTK for example.
The Dreadnaut is out there. D1 lore said that Toland was calling us fools for killing a god, and then walking away, leaving the throne and his power up for grabs. Lore says we were "squandering" the power lol
@@hawkmoon9603 But throne worlds aren't hive specific. It was orignally thought it was something that those who were strong enough that also wielded darkness could create. But then savathun started washing her throne world with light so I think one has to be paracuasal and specifically powerful. Mara had one for a while, toland has one and I wouldn't be surprised if any guardian has one. I just think that it's not explained enough about how the death of the creator affects the throne world.
I've always had a feeling he would return. When Oryx killed Sathona and Xi Ro in the Ascendant Realm, the Book of Sorrows says "and these were true deaths". But Oryx conjured them back to life by using cunning and killing. After we killed Oryx in the Kings Fall raid, we crafted the Touch of Malice, made with the heart of Oryx. I think we'll accidentally conjure Oryx back to life by exploring and inquisiting. That's was Oryxs nature
Wrong by the time Oryx killed them they were already savathun and xivu arath
i think we're end up teaming up with oryx, savathun and xivu to take on the darkness.
what happened to the touch of malice anyway? was it lost in the first towers destruction?
@@ThenManuelPerin unknown at this time, I'd say it was but fragments of ToM had survived coz we could get it back in the future
Could you imagine bungie brings back touch of malice with a whole lot of advertising, it gets its own zero hour esk mission and Savathun snatches it right before we can leave. What a trick that would be.
@@Hypercane_ could you imagine ToM with warlock void 3.0? Lol
I hope he returns. For me he is my favorite character out of the Destiny lore. This dlc has been an absolute treat for me being a huge hive fan but this adds an extra cherry on top and hype. This will probably how they will bring back Kings Fall. Best raid ever.
I agree with you on that I love king's fall gear and everything else too
@@collinbell6558 bungie seems to hate scout rifles, especially 200RPM+ ones. I hope they bring back kings fall or wrath of the machine though, I just feel like they ain’t bringing back touch of malice haha
If they do bring back WoM what’s the exotic gonna be?
On the Osmiomancy Gloves lore tab, there are THREE important things that Savathun has already done. One, altering a Moon's course, the Hive already do that. They created those War Moons when they destroyed the Ammonites and, Two, linked them with interdimensional rifts, essentially moving armies into a Hive ship. Three, Savathun moved into a black hole, removing herself, and her fleet, from time and space. Sounds like there is more to the story. Maybe all three spoke to the Deep.
“ORYX! HE IS HERE!” -Eris
He's here to avenge his two sons, grandaughter, niece, and sister
Fingertips on the surface of my mind!
*LIGHT. GIVE YOUR WILL, TO ME*
Yes?
@@12345abxdefghijk LOL
Considering Savathun's whole plan regarding her theft of the Light hinges on tricking us into recovering Savathun's memories for her, I am inclined to believe the option where she details stealing Mars back from the Witness, though not necessarily as a gift for us. She knew that Guardians would need the power of the Relic to access Deepsight and thus brought it back, with the piece of the Glaive conveniently nearby on her ship, to start the process of recovering her memories
I'm still confused about one thing. How does Savathun remember her plan
@@DTK625 probably hints left behind in her throne world where only she could access and she saw them while renovating her world
@@DTK625 In the mission where we get the shard of Savathun's prison, we fight Savathun's right hand. That wizard went and found Savathun after she was resurrected, and was (probably) the one who filled her in on her plan. That wizard I believe was also the first of the Lucent Brood.
"Taking involves reforming matter in a self-contained reality, where the creator defines past present and future"
The power to Take, is the power to alter someone's Destiny.
I see what you did there bungie.
I see.
Interesting 🤔
Guardians make their own fate.
What If the two truths are that we have the ability to move worlds and the taken king will return are true but, our ability to move worlds make us the taken king. The former truth creating the latter.
In the subclass mission for new supers back in Forsaken, some of the dialogue criticizes us for defeating oryx but not taking his mantle, as someone had to be the leader of the Taken.
This instance would bring that full circle!
“Rise again” implies defeat. You wouldn’t say the witness will rise again, because it was never defeated(assumedly).
but he's already been defeated so saying rise again makes sense...
she said "the taken king" not oryx, not her brother. the taken king could be anyone, as she herself said she could have been the taken queen if she cared to
The witness caused the collapse and was defeated
@@starwars20101 not really defeated. moreso was tricked into leaving. so you can't really say rise again if they never lost to begin with, just left
@@IAmWhiteEagle That was my bad, I was in a rush, and my thoughts got mixed up.
While I'd love to see "The Taken King" I have a theory for why the first option on Savathun's list may be true as well: during the Parasyte GL quest we learn from the worm that Savathun had deceived the Witness as well and she did that to protect Earth/the Traveler. In this way we could say that Earth was in her care. If we apply that to the missing worlds, what if that's part of the meaning as well?
Her actions weren't to protect Earth, but to protect the Traveler. She didn't care about humanity itself on Earth, but about her plan to eventually obtaining the power of light.
@@quavoking Humanity were just lucky that she was so invested in protecting the traveller which gave humanity a chance to live.
She never intentionally saved humanity, they were just in the right place at the right time.
Very neat investigation.
Also with the Witness there is the line in one of Sagiras memories when referencing the Witness…It’s not the Darkness but something that wears the Darkness like a cloak .
The lore in this release is just staggering, in size, content and impact.
I think this is pretty important lore that I'm gonna mention and I hope you see it, the tusked allegiance seasonal helmet has lore on it depicting the hive subjugating a hive light bearer, this suggests that every hive light bearer most likely has to go through the same process considering that guardians lose all their memories and any prior allegiances don't matter, the light bearer attempted to fight back but couldn't and was killed over and over again until he was subjugated. Think of this like another Crow situation when he became a light bearer, a light bearer could be molded into serving any cause whether good or evil, so something to consider when we kill the hive light bearers is that they could have been brought to the side of good if they hadn't been forced to subjugate under the witch queen.
I think that is referencing the fact that his RAID is returning. Destiny has already announced that they will be bringing back old raids and rotating them as time goes by. Kingsfall being one of them.
When Savathun says ‘move worlds’ makes me want to know how she means it. World could mean differing things with context, so she might not be referring to planet type worlds.
I'm surprised Myelin didn't consider the possibility of a ghost resurrecting Oryx. That's it immediately what I thought of when I heard Savathicc mention this.
The power of the witness might be a mechanic in the raid....especially since it takes place in the pyramid ships.
Wow, mind blown. The Witch Queen has been a breath of fresh air for storytelling. I’m wondering if the power to take for guardians could be our door to other worlds after The Final Shape.
Savathun was able to bring back the dark blade as the light blade with the hive ghosts and he was dead for a long time.
The main question when it comes to ghost reviving someone for the first time how much of the body has to be leftover in order for the ghost to revive them? In one of the trailers we see the hive ghost rebuilding parts of dead hive then reviving them and the worms in the dead hive are also most likely dead due to not being feed so there’s no cross influence between the hive ghost and hungry worms
If I recall oryx’s body was last reported on titan and in the kings fall raid when we see his body fall it sort of crystallizes and turn black, so if his body is still on relatively good condition and is still on titan when it returns a hive ghost could possibly revive him
We were nothing more than a skeleton when we were resurrected. So my assumption is that you don't need much to bring someone/something back as a Guardian.
Awesomeguy951 However in the Kings Fall raid he's floating towards Saturn in visuals not sure about Titan. So who knows???
@@justinpearce3345 Titan is one of Saturns moon. so 🤷🏽♂️
JosieRiv Yes Titan is in orbit of Saturn but Kings Fall location wise was pretty much closer to Planet Saturn while Titan was further out in orbit. Oryx however if fireteam stayed while timers was ticking you'd see him drifting further and further to Saturn. I really don't understand why he would be mentioned to be located on Titan.🤷🤷
Yeah the guardians don’t have worms any more but I’m not sure if the regular casts still have them I haven’t been paying attention when shooting them in the head
*Oryx becomes a Hive Guardian*
Guardians: “How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?”
We killed him via main character plot armor
I hope "the taken king will return" will mean both options that you mentioned. It being the witness as the og taken king and it being a 4th wall thing and the raid from TTK will return. I think TTK has the most likely hood to return as it ties to Savathunn the most with it being us killing her brother lol
Because of the wording of Savanthun’s claim, I personally think it’s Oryx. “Rise again,” to me, implies either death or some sort of absence. With The Witness essentially pulling the strings behind the scenes this whole time, what she said can definitely be interpreted as them finally coming to the forefront of our conflict. But again, I think (hope) her wording is better suited in reference to Oryx.
I’m her last moments in this physical realm I believe Savathun was very honest. Because we are pracausal beings we have the power to change the shape of destiny. In term , we ARE the final shape. The final shape is the final evolution in our species. Smart Species die out after evolving past mortality. To become immortal is to be worshipped or…. To be forgotten. Maybe that is why history does out. The pinnacle is hit and the potential is sniffed out as is everything within the comos. Physics determines our inevitable end through feasible hypothesis. Yet here we are. Humanity (it’s potential) is the gift we’ve been given to shape our universe. To combat destiny and it’s fundamental hold on our perception of reality
Playing this mission had my head steaming
Nah don’t think last one is referring to the witness AT ALL. It said rise again. In order to rise again u must have fallen to begin with. And the witness has never been stated to have been defeated and the Oryx is both referred to as the taken king and FELL in battle. It’s 100% referring to oryx
My theory is that "the Taken King will rise again" is one of the truths but it doesnt refer to Oryx and instead refers to another possible darkness servant like Toland, the Fanatic, or Calus
Or us. After all, Oryx's throne is ours by rights. As is the right to command the Taken, which is where I believe we will get a Taken Subclass from.
What about Nokris he is still alive
@@Mr-Lister Wait, what?
Except the wording is "THE Taken King" not "A Taken King"
@@saltybulldog3241 gotem
In a way I hope the Taken King returning is true in both the ways you mentioned. If any in-game character was to break the 4th wall it would be Savathûn, especially since she’s already done so with her song. Also, I just really freakin’ want Kings Fall to come back lol
The Touch of Malice was Oryx's way of living past true death; he didn't expect to be defeated, but if he ever was, he wanted a way to learn from it. Thus, he arranged for his killer (us) to find the blueprints to the weapon, which we did, and use it. As Oryx describes, by using the Touch of Malice (which is also Oryx) our philosophies merge and mix, until at last we come to a new philosophy stronger than the Sword Logic. And I believe that the day we find that new philosophy, we will have successfully mantled Oryx as First Navigator and bring him back from True Death the way he did with Savathun and Xivu Arath.
I like the speed he talks at. It feels like every point is well thought out.
I'm definitely leaning towards Guardians unlocking this Darkness power to move worlds/Take, and that it'll relate to (what I'm highly confident will be) a new Darkness subclass that we get from the Lightfall campaign. Otherwise I suppose I'm quite torn between the other three.
I find it interesting when Savathun is talking about the return of Mars, she starts 4 of 5 with “This is the truth” where the final one she jumps right in about the witness without the previous statement. I haven’t listened to the other recordings as of yet to see if a similar pattern is present, but I would be intrigued to know. Perhaps that is our clue is the verbiage and structure of the sentence?
The whole power of the Witness makes sense to become subclass since it does connect a lot of darkness abilities we know about. We know that it has something to with time and gravity like Deepsight and we know it's the same ability used to make to Taken and the Nightmares could also be tied to this. The only remaining darkness abilities that can't be tied to this are the Thorn poison abilities, the Scorn, and Nokris's necromancy. However since Thorn seems to be tied to decaying then I believe these 3 abilities are also connect to one subclass which will give us 3 darkness subclasses.
"The Taken King"
i think the witness was in control of Mars and they gave it back for whatever reason, in the last cutscene of the campaign where we see the witness, we see Mars in that set of planets under its control, i dont think we see Io or Titan though
I also think, the witness is meant to be the returning taken king, because he was there before. The Witness from what we know was there during our collapse. Since he's back, I could totally see him being the taken king Savathun is talking about
My quest was still there after I completed that part, I did it like 5 times, I realized that the mission end timer was like 150 seconds, and it seemed to get longer every time I did it and then abandoned mission after it gave me the completed pop-up
I suspect the ability to move worlds may relate to a mechanic in game to choose what planets to install/ uninstall in a future expansion, similar to the way the Master Chief Collection handles game installs. Probably wishful thinking but could be neat. Bungie does like to tie lore like that to in game mechanics that lie above the moment to moment gameplay level
Can you imagine that in the future of destiny maybe the guardians can learn how to take and make taken of their own. Or maybe a new type of subclass that has to do with the taken since we already have stasis powers. Maybe There will be 2 more darkness subclasses and one of them will have something to do with the taken.
I've already encountered six memories by playing on all three characters; each one of them gave me a set of two. It doesn't have to be by joining other people only.
I think the Taken powers would make sense as a subclass, if it took the place of a summoner/necromancer archetype from other RPG's. Or, based on the new information we have, it could simply be a temporal manipulation subclass, and I'm sure people can think of the possible applications of that.
It could just as well be speaking of Nokris. His bargain with Savathun was not a one sided exchange she was to give him insight into "the dreaming mind" which is Quoria, blade transformed. This taken mind was Savathun's tool in creating more taken. So perhaps it is not Oryx who will rise again but his last heir to his dynasty.
Do we know what power we're using when we interact with the dark aura things around the Throne World? It might be stated otherwise, and I'm just unaware, but maybe these are The Witnesses powers in their infancy as it seems we're either taking something that isn't there, and pulling it into our reality.
It's just dark power. Darkness powers are linked with memory so we use that power to reveal memories. This is how we are able to enter old, locked away, forgotten areas in the throne world.
Visually they appear to similar to the Taken energy/matter/power.
Which is also similar to the Relics effects and that of the time distortions on Mars.
Mylen even read out the Taken energies traits and capabilities from the Exotic.
It having the capacity for time manipulation, matter alteration and even being able to exist in other realities.
Frankly, it seems likely that they are all linked to Taken energy. Or rather the product of its use.
The way the Exotics lore tab states that in a the hands of someone more intelligent this power could do far more than creating an army.
Savathûn saying she has the capabilities to be the Taken Queen just adds weight to that.
Us getting a Taken energy Darkness subclass isn't that far fetched.
Plot wise it could be a way we can, literally, gain ground by rescuing the other planets.
@@DeMo15 Good explanation but also note it's called Deepsight.
I think the power to move/take worlds could definitely be a taken subclass we are getting a corruption subclass at some point so we need a third darkness subclass to match the light only thing I can think of unless they make a new element like stasis
Would be interesting to see an in-depth revisit of the altar of reflection information given what we know now.
On the destinations map, Saturn is there. It has no locations in game so I can only assume that it’s on the map now because the dreadnaught will come out of the content vault sometime this year
I have 2 thoughts. Firstly with "The Taken King Will Rise Again", could this be in the context of the story with Savathun using Nokris' necromancy/a ghost? OR is it in a meta context that Kings Fall will be back in a future season and it's not exactly tied to lore/story it's just a thing that will happen in game, a tease for future seasons content. Secondly, when Mars floats past The Witness, the cloudy taken fissures look like claw marks, like a giant claw had swiped Mars 'out of the way', like Myelin mentioned that they were moving planets out of their way.
I am pretty sure the Dares of Eternity is the only place in Destiny games that isn't supposed to be canon. Everything else seems to be, and in quite a mandatory/serious way. So Savathün isn't just saying how King's Fall is coming to the game.
But regarding your 2nd thought, that's a really good one... Probably won't get that out of my head till we know anything more of it.
@@Mechanomly I don't think Legacy content is/will be canon (other than Prophecy).
@@LowIntSpecimen I think that's too obvious to even mention. It *did* happen before, but just only once.
I hope comes back, one of my favorite characters
"I don't think Guardians will get taken powers."
The Drifter sneezes.
I couldn’t wait for a video on this!!!!!
the power to "alter a moon's orbit" is something we can assume the witness already did with the syzygy on fundament
Savathuns apparent interest in moving planets from one plane to another I think could explain her part of her interest in the Distributary. It’s another plane. Perhaps part of her ploy in the dreaming city and her desire to find the homeworld of the awoken, is she wanted to see if she could enter in and move something there
17:55 does anyone else think those statues from that strike and campaign mission look like chess pieces
The narrative team is opening up so many potential gameplay possibilities with the way they are writing the lore tbh
Do remember a while back at end of D2 campaign we saw locations and the Dreadnaught was one of them and didn't Luke Smith say it was sort of a hidden roadmap?
The oryx part was obviously one of the two lies
In before a hive ghost goes: “Wow this guy is big! He will make a great lucent brood!!”
The witnesses power seems to be able to move worlds, and what better way to beat the witness than with its own power.
I think Xivu, Savathuun, and Oryx are doing whatever they can to get rid of their worm's hunger.
Even though Savathuun wanted to kill oryx, it was only out of competition/love. It's what their worm would want. Conquest/Deceit/War.
She wouldn't have a shrine for Oryx, or have revived Alah Khul (the dark blade, now the light blade), if she truly hated him, or didn't have some elaborate plan to bring him back.
I mean, imagine, Oryx the taken King, with all his might, with the light, resurrection, and his well known taken powers.
The throne world concept would just go out the window at that point.
Savathun quickly became the most interesting villain ever in Destiny. Definitely my fave villain. I understand her motives, I root for her 🤷🏻♂️
She said in last season, she was no villain, and we were no hero, we are paracausal. Probably implying that our paths at some point were going to cross.
I dont consider her a villain, shes like an anti hero, she has a goal and a plan and will do anything to acheive it, fuck everyone who gets in her way kinda thing.
She just sees us as tools, she doesnt care much for the darkness either as she trapped Rhulk in the pyramid.
Unlike Oryx who had a hissy fit and seeked revenge for Crota whcih lead to his demise, she was like meh to all her childrens deaths, so to her they were just a means to an end.
Sure might sound heartless but it's kinda understandable considering everything she has gone through for billions of years.
Crotas end might return as a raid lair for kings fall. Has the same length as one
There is lore somewhere about Titan being affected by the Darkness when they first arrived during the collapse. Titan 'bulged' or something to that effect.
for all we know the " soon " part of " the power to move worlds will soon be yours " could be in reference to the new raid. lightfall is next year, and that really isn't soon at all. i initially thought it to be her referencing our next subclass, i mean. lightfall. come on, it'd make sense, and we do know we are getting more darkness subclasses. but myelin's calling it a mechanic makes me think it could play a part in the raid. it is definitely soon after all, it's on the 5th.
I wonder what happened to the other species that were on the planets that dissapeared. For example, what happened to the Cabal that were on Mars once it disappeared. We see at the begining of the Witch Queen campaign that they are getting ready to attack Savathun's ship, but what were they doing while Mars was not accessible? It's really strange when you think about it.
The Witness gave Oryx the power of "The Taken King". The Witness can give whoever he want this power. So The Taken King can return without issues, but does not need to be Oryx. There will be a new The Taken King and Oryx was not the first.
Traveler: light/dark [being/some thing]
Winnower/witness: [Not Being/no thing]
Never been early before. Thank you for your content. It has been very healing towards my personal depression. May the light follow us all
Notice that the way the Witness is looking at the planets is the same way we are trough the director....hence ' soon you will have the power to move worlds'
Is bungie creating a way to add or remove planets from vault (DCV might become interactive)
I think moving worlds will be a raid mechanic next year or the year after when we fight The Witness. Like maybe in the raid we are taking worlds back from them
Oryx is chillin on Saturn with his ghost 👻 and just enjoying his new life 🤣
You are just the best destiny content creator I must say.
We know a raid is coming back from D1, it makes sense for it to be Kings Fall. We also know guardians are revived from those previously killed. My wacky theory right now is that were getting Kings Fall back, Oryx having the light, and this would explain why there's going to be hive guardians in the raid
*random ghost flying to the dreadnaught to rez oryx* ... and i took that personally
Another thing to add: Before the Witch Queen in Beyond Light, we see a reunion between Elsie and Ana Bray, meaning Ana Bray is not only alive, but also is the only planetary vendor among the planets taken which survived and escaped, which means that Mars was taken in a different way? By Savathun? Idk grasping at straws here
I thought they were just gonna add Kings Fall like VOG but it seems that it'll be added into the story.
The new taking king is gonna be the drifter, he's got motes to spare!
I think what she means about the taken king returning is the witness becoming the taken king because I belive it was the darkness that gave oryx the power to take, or that was the worm gods.
Was talking about this possibility myself other day with clan friends after the memory quest got them very curious
Oryx may become an arisen along with the other bosses in Kingsfall and thats why the raid comes back. (If Kingsfall is the next reprised raid of course) aka the taken king rises again
In the lore card for when Auryx killed the worm god and learned to take. He did say “he will be the king of shapes” and the last dlc is called the finale shape. So I think oryx will return in that dlc also the card is literally called the king of shapes
I think the witness took mars and used it’s power to look through the past at our golden age but I think savathun learned the power too and brought mars back and that’s why the glaive piece was in her ship and her ship was there to begin with. They even comment about how mars has areas of temporal distortion that show our golden age. The temporal energy areas have an outline that looks similar to the taken auras which relates to the power to take.
What is interesting is that all her claims about Mars could have some truth to them. Perhaps the Witness had taken Mars to examine it for clues about the collapse, only for Savathun to yank it away from him before he was finished, leaving all those scars across it
I think the nine returned Mars, because in dares of eternity there is a golden goop wall like the black goop wall the witness has and the golden dust at the witness’s feet is similar to the tunnels that propel you in DoE
Also Xivu Arath will learn the riddle and act upon the witness’ visions
I think it’s pretty funny that she says “this is the truth” every time but gives wildly different answers.
also in the final cutscene the Witness literally moves worlds as he walks down the ship
I'll tell you... my boi Drifter is gonna sit on the throne as the new taken king. My favorite rat has way more than gambit and stasis on his sleeve
I feel like one of the planets in the Witness cutscene is also Io, as you see a green planet to the right.
I believe that since the first one is false, that means the second one is probably true. After all, we see it in the cutscene.
The last two are up for interpretation, but I’d say the third is true, as if the witness can do it, I believe it’s possible we may be able to as well.
Considering wat the worm says in the parasite quest. I think she did take it before the witness did
Theory: if kings fall returns with the dreadnought like most people believe it will be from the DCV like vault of glass did ( bungie has already said that another raid from d1 will return this year )
Wouldn’t that make her right while also having her break the fourth wall.. again
She already broke the 4th wall with that 999 power Shattered Throne lore book.
Vault isn’t going to be replaced they’re going to ADD a reprised raid each year
I hope Kings Fall doesn’t come before Wrath of the Machine, an actual fun raid. God I hated Kings Fall, to many mechanics and standing on plates, not enough freedom as a playerbase to speed up encounters through strategy and available dps. Oryx encounter was too drawn out because of the mechanics requiring light eater ogre blights to do damage disregarding our own dps.
@@Clit_Yeastwood it’s all but confirmed it’s kings fall they have the model for darkblade in the witch queen so the sunless cell strike will return also sorry bub you don’t have to do kings fall if you don’t want too tho
Damn, so they'll take away Vault to give us other D1 raids? Can they please stop removing cool and good things from the game? Still, I'm happy to see King's Fall raid return
Savathun asking me if I’m angry that the witness spit back Mars?
Me: My bray science coupon is pulsing lol
Imagine having to fight Savathun and Oryx at the same time in the Raid it's like she creates an illusion of her dead brother by using the touch of malice as he fights alongside her in the Throne world.
i mean that would be cool but shes not even gonna be in the raid?
18:06 but why would it be rising again? it never fell or died, it was just there, the way Savathûn words it implies that the "taken king" will rise from the grave, maybe like how Oryx conjured back Xivu Arath and Savathûn with war and trickery
What if the traveler wanted to be sealed away? More past that, what if we had an ally if not someone who knows that plane well and could keep it safe. Toland probably. What if the traveler could chill in the ….ascendent realm, i think it’s called, and we still maintain our connection to the light? I can see the gamble but same time Traveler better step up for once, Put the same faith in us as we have in it. (Im referring to what happened to the fallen and the possible hive)
Myelin, but what about the Traveler appearing in Savathûn's throne world during the later half of the campaign?
Ikora even acknowledges in the last campaign mission that the Traveler disappears and reappears in the Last City.
Who moved the Traveler there? Was it Savathûn? Running with her dialogue from in game and her reasoning for taking entire worlds, this fact just adds to the evidence that Savathûn does indeed have the power of The Witness.
Thank you, mikee_wf in the Twitch Chat. I wasn't sure if that was Myelin.
All the Mars reappearing stuff could maybe be kinda true
I feel like you can piece them out into a coherent story.
The darkness made the planet go, but Savathun learnt new power from the nine to pull the planet back.
Or something like that?
On a different topic, I've been thinking about this ancient proxy war and how possibly cyclical it is.
For example.
Are the larvae baby worm god?
The traveler seems to go around and poke out spices with potential and if not run away.
The hive might have high potential to paracausal forces which seems heavily hinted in the campaign. ("How is she so powerful?!")
The nine are proto witness? (You would think they would not be unique to Sol.)
Thinking about how changed the Emissary is, and how they been trying to come into our reality.
If Foundament was a prison world, the traveler must have had forces to put em there. Were they the race killed by the Hive?
Has the lore actually explained when Mars came back? They seem to be vague on it. Was it before or after the excorcism? Could she have brought it back before she died?
Makes you wonder which planets make up the 9, and I wonder if they have joined with the witness
I think we're gonna get some kind of Taken/true darkness subclass next year and thats what Savathun is really hinting at "the taken king will rise again" isnt talking about Oryx but us after all Bungie did say they're already working on a new subclass
You missed a secret part of that first clip. If you wait about 30sec after Savathun talks, a bunch of ghosts pop up beside the hive witches in the hologram.
i haven’t watched the whole video but i remember clearly Quoria replicated Oryx’s original form and it was never destroyed, then Oryx gave Quoria to Savathun so she also had Oryx and she studied with Noctris and knows how to control the taken (we’ve seen this on Io). i think “gave” Oryx power and he will return with his memory thanks to darkness (enclave or deep sight)
that’s my explanation for Kings Fall Returning
Just a few clarifications: Since season 15 Savathün has completely lost control of the Taken, and presumably they're directly obeying the Witness now. We also killed Quria in season 14. And so far, we've never seen Deepsight/the Relic actually bringing something back to life, but just showing past versions of objects and places.
And in the end, King's Fall may just come back for the same gameplay reasons like Vault of Glass, and no more than that. And also like VoG, simply found in the "Legends" section of the Director.
sure has TAKEN his time >:D
One thing I don't understand is how the throne world is still standing after we killed her. Does it have something to do with the light or that her ghost is still alive and therefore she is not truly dead?
Throne Worlds aren't tied to the lives of the people that make them as far as we know. We killed Crota in his throne world in TDB but re-visited it in TTK for example.
@@beast0339 yeah but in forsaken, when we killed the mindbender, the throne world collapsed
@@aznjay94 but mind bender wasn’t naturally hive. He was a fallen messing with hive magic
The Dreadnaut is out there. D1 lore said that Toland was calling us fools for killing a god, and then walking away, leaving the throne and his power up for grabs. Lore says we were "squandering" the power lol
@@hawkmoon9603 But throne worlds aren't hive specific. It was orignally thought it was something that those who were strong enough that also wielded darkness could create. But then savathun started washing her throne world with light so I think one has to be paracuasal and specifically powerful. Mara had one for a while, toland has one and I wouldn't be surprised if any guardian has one. I just think that it's not explained enough about how the death of the creator affects the throne world.