They got somethin cooking in the background, lets hope this "Neon Prime" isn't just another 90% finished game that gets shelved due to internal complications.
Look at twitch viewership now... the state of game, players aren't enjoying it anymore. Litertally 25k on a holiday break watching... so damn low its embarrassing honestly. I remember watching 50-80k. Nobody really cares about getting better at this moment too, a lot of it is just players get on and play a couple games and hop off until they're bored again.
I just feel sad that there's nothing they can do currently to make me play this game again, and i used to love this game. Pve is a joke and they don't care about the workshop, which still insane to me that they don't invest in the workshop anymore. At the end of the day, why would i go back to ow? To grind for skins that i used to have for free? And on top of that ow 2 reworks are not worthy of the "2", the Rog rework for example is basically the same exact character but a bit different, how is that a rework?
@dgiorr Roadhog rework bad??Bro he was the worst character in the game for multiple seasons and now he's finally a viable pick and you think it was a terrible rework because you think it didn't change anything? Hate to break it to you but not every rework has to change every single ability to something new. Sometimes it just requires minimal changes to how you play the character to be a rework.
A big problem with hero challenges to unlock them is if you miss two hero releases like I did (lifeweaver and illari) then you can only progress one character challenge at a time. So I needed 80 or so games for two heroes, during a season where both were very strong (last season)
@@misterfevillord1588 u can only activate one hero's challenge at a time , its not like u have to complete all the challenges to activate another hero's challenges but u can only progress the challenges that are active U can unlock multiple characters in a season , but u need to play a lot of games
we need more content like animated shorts, those really helped establish Overwatch as an IP. How there’s not an Overwatch show on netflix or something yet is beyond me and seems like such a missed opportunity
The marketing team for blizzard is so trash. The art team is carrying 40% of this game. So I’m with you, I don’t understand why we haven’t given the art team room to thrive. Blizzard’s marketing team is really holding them back. Riot games for example has both good art and marketing and they literally can’t be stopped on the gaming scene.
@@Bongkaiii it's advertisement, but without a corpa feel. bringing more players to overwatch would give more incentive for the higher ups to give instructions to devs to fix the game.
one thing I feel worth mentioning is that you shouldn't use twitch viewership to gauge how overwatch 2 is doing. Its numbers are heavily padded since they constantly have twitch drops, so a lot of people end up watching OW 2 streams when they aren't actually watching.
Everyone who uses Twitch metrics conveniently forgets about Twitch drops. I have all the special Nano Cola sprays for Dva because I just picked a random Twitch channel and let it play while I went to bed.
But if those people watch for the drops, then they're probably still invested in the game ? Invested enoigh to get a shitty spray or skin for a character that they might wanna play
"Weve already hit the floor" Nah, even with the PVE thing id say thats more so a horrible mess thats gonna take alot to recover from but to say thats gonna the be the "bottom floor" is just wishful thinking, it can still get worse, idk how but gaming companies will find a way
Getting "Promised the world and gave us Rhode Island" on a shirt cause that's a fire line and I love the thought of making a trip to Rhode Island just to flaunt that shirt
I feel like something else to consider is that it doesnt feel like people are recommending it. The player base may stay stagnant but it won't really grow if outside preception is this bad imo
Looking back on the launch of the game most of the excuses on the PvP problems of was that they were working on PvE. They said it so much that many fans/creators were convinced at least half the team if not more was working on PvE which is why PvP balancing/problems were not getting fixed at all. Let's not forget how bad the launch of OW2 was. When OW2 first launched, it was in "early access" mode because PvE was still coming.(Flats also mentioned it back in the day) Again this was with them without the freedom/having a say on things, but it doesn't take away the fact that it was a horrible launch. Successful? Sure, but being successful doesn't always mean it was good. Queue login times were horrendous, balance was all over, accounts needed phone#'s, accounts were locked for days, heroes were locked, account merging messes with everything, you'd get kicked out of a ranked match midway due to horrible servers and get banned, loot boxes turned into useless tokens(they're kinda okay now I guess but not during launch), the list goes on. It was so bad that I literally got an email from Blizzard yesterday of them responding to my account merge issue I sent them a YEAR ago. Saying that everything should be fixed and thanking me for being patient. So for me, after all the bad steps OW2 took since launch and sticking with them... believing they can deliver, and then dropping the bomb saying PvE isn't coming turned me from a diehard player into a casual play once per month kinda person. And it just sucks. "It just sucks" in my opinion is the best way to explain the whole situation. And if you read this whole thing thanks lol every time I see a video like this it just makes me want to vent out the frustrations.
I feel ya. So much pay to grind, ow coins r so hard to earn, can't buy new bp by completing old bp, bp bloated with souvenirs n boring content etc. Just feels like theres no point even playing. Not to mention I bought a bundle 6months ago and still haven't received the profile icon.. (customer support have not responded lol) such an embarrassment
A stable player base is not necessarily a good thing for a f2p game. Since only a small amount of players will spend any amount of money, this puts a hard ceiling on the amount of revenue the game can make, especially after lootboxes were removed. The game needs to constantly pump out new content to keep money flowing in, which the current team has proven to struggle with.
There only so many skins people will buy. The real money for f2p games comes from weapons and upgrades but OW doesn't have that. Characters have character specific guns that can't change and two weeks into OW2 I can't figure out if I'm even able to improve my stats. Not to mention the battle pass garbage I had to go through just to sign into the game
@@Wolfman7870 League has neither, DOTA has neither, CSGO has neither, Valorant has neither, just like Overwatch and those are doing fine. Esports scene is a bigger factor imho for Overwatch succes than weapons and upgrades being sold, it's not COD. Heroes are meant to be stagnant cause it's meant to be competive, not who brought the better loadout.
@TappedWalnut my dude, those two factors are easily defeated by the fact that 1: Overwatch had an esports scene and it still got to this point and 2: if the characters are meant to be stagnant then you should mention that to Blizzard because they're constantly giving their characters buffs, nerfs and changing their kit which is essentially like giving them different loadouts each time
@@Droulix You really gonna be semantic when i am telling a guy Overwatch isn't COD and that improving stats/loadout isn't a thing? Also 1: The E-sports is nothing compared to what it used to be cause there is hardly any money invested. It's contenders and collegiate but no actually pro scene. 2: Stagnant as in you can't change loadout/stats my dude. Every game i mentioned has had balance patches, would be kinda fucked if we had release Brig, Xin Zhao, Monkey king etc .... wtf are you even on about, balance patches still doesn't mean heroes aren't meant to be stagnant going from game to game not patch to patch ....
See I was in plat, which is that rank where people really actually start to try and understand the game, so I've never seen fully optimized brig gameplay in a match before... I can tell you even a mid player like me was damn near indestructible, she had no good counters at all and could 1v1 tanks easy. Tracer couldn't flank her because brig had the easiest 1 shot combo on her in the world (shield bash, left click, whip shot), reaper was scary but shield bash boop him away and now he's not a threat. Only things that ever concerned me were junk and Hanzo cause you NEED that shield to engage, and those 2 fire from range. Even then though shield bash mobility lets you close space quickly. That bitch was BROKEN, one of the strongest characters possibly ever made.
Same, I was mostly away from the game from when she was released to OW2 release, so it was and still is a bit of a shock to see the vitriol, but now it definitely makes sense. That list was nuts lol.
It was all relative. I mean Brig was useless in a ranged fight. But nobody really plays ranged in the game. They all insist on being melee reaper and such, and then complain that Brig is OP because she can survive.
People like to say "45 levels isnt that bad" which its not for someone playing the game daily but a more casual player who plays different games and has a job and family to take care of its pretty hard to get 45 levels before the charcter becomes irrelevant.
I am 23 years old with a job and yet I have almost 12 hours of free time to play videogames. I am not going to play oversuck 2 anyway but my point is that if you want to have time YOU WILL have time, you just have to want it, focus about it and being selfish enough to do whatever it takes to achieve it
@@ginocanterino258 I'm 36, I work 70h a week, have a family with kids. I have an hour and a half tops to play videogames. What you're saying is completly false. You just don't have ther other obligations yet :)
Even in one of his previous vids he said "sure the game isnt good right now, but at least its not season 4/5 so its not that bad". Radiates the same energy as "my dad only hit me ONCE today, he must be happy!"
It may not be dying but you can see especially on the steam chart that even when an entire new season starts or something new gets added the player count stays around the same. It's only gonna go up or down if they continue to drive new players away
if you win i think you get double win's. I just unlocked the 2 healers about a week ago and while it was a grind you just play queuing as a healer or all roles.
@@NitSoLegga__ but if you lose 50 games and win 50 games, you get echo when you unlock comp. Also, new players usually lose more than 50% of the time, so they actually get echo a bit before getting comp access.
Here's my problem with Flats statement around the 3 minute mark. If the developer craps the game into the ground or floor as he says, anything they do makes it seem like the game is "better" than it was. In reality, a piece of crap is still a piece of crap no matter what. Majority of the reason a sequel was announced was to use PvE as a selling point. Once that was cancelled, there were a lot of players who were ticked off for good reason.
@@acorn1265 It never delayed just canceld with Jeff leave and lying to Community because they know telling them before Ow2 was release PVE is canceld, it would kill Ow2
Exactly. It's not th game getting better its just you bar is lowered. Also Flats is connected to devs and the studio + his income depends on the game so he's MASSIVELY biased. Basically streamers like him are kinda extension of the marketing department.
At this very moment, the game’s content loop has become very stagnant. I come from other games, however, that are able to push through similar stagnations and come out a better game. These games can do this because the community around the game trusts that things will get better. Who here though can trust blizzard anymore to make overwatch live up to its potential ?
I think one of the major differences that you need to consider is the Blizzard Activision acquisition by Microsoft which should change things for the better. Though the change is management hasn't even totally shifted yet, you can already see a MASSIVE improvement in the amount of openness and communication that the devs have started to have with the community. You can already see devs go on podcasts and answering the community's questions on AMAs, which shows that the acquisition has had a major impact on their ability to do things, and now they actually want to make a great game, and hopefully without the complete restrictions from before.
@@ame367 As much as this is a good thing don't expect much to happen for a few months. I'll be surprised if there are actual massive changes within 6 months time, and I can only be hopeful without actual full on support as I have no want to be disappointed.
@@ame367 agreed. I want to believe that Microsoft stepping in will let the game thrive, but its still hard to trust Blizzard after all the times the players have been burned. Plus, Microsoft owning Blizzard starts to open unease about their games on stuff like Playstation or the Switch
@@ame367 While I do generally want to agree and be more positive about this. All this "communication" and "being open" has been a promise since the release of the game directly from the words of developers themselves. You've been hearing the exact same promises since release and not that much has changed in what they actually say. In the past seasons there was several patches released that slightly tweaked issues people were the loudest about in the most non-impactful way possible while putting out blog-posts promising they are looking into the data for those things... Made people scream "they are listening" every patch, and yet the game still hasn't improved all that much.
Imo the game just needs way more maps to feel less stale. There's only so many times you can play Numbani per night before you start getting kinda bored. Adding more maps to the map pool decreases the chance of replaying a map per play session and also makes it more likely you'll get different maps the next time you play as well. I'd like to see them prioritize maps more and just pump out a few ones with assets they already have (and make new ones too but that'll take them a hot minute). F.e. they could rework Ayutthaya to be usable as a Control Point or something. It seems they're somewhat doing this with the Hanamura rework they've sneak peaked but it's just not happening quickly enough.
Launch week was BRUTAL. I wont stand for the erasure of what happened. I and any account that "preregistered" (so core players) in was locked out of ow2. And blizzard knew this was a problem. Preregistrating your account lead to your file being unusable on the new server. A dev communication days later explained that they already KNEW about this issue and that a solution was pushed several days out. They ddnt tell the core players who were hovering excitedand refreshing the game client for hours. Ow1 was gone i was locked out of ow2 and watching streamers get on for free. Blizzard, Communicate early and honestly. I could have stopped trying, made a sandwich or touched grass that week.
Even twitch viewer cut by 40%+ used to be 50-80k on a normal day, now it's holiday break and 26k... which is sad. Only the diehards play now, I only play every once in a while, all my friends too, keep reading comments and reddit and seems like so many people aren't playing
@@manh7897Those were the numbers of OW in its first 2/3 years, when big streamers like xqc&co. were still part of the comunity. In the last years of ow1 the numbers were way lower than nowdays.
Idk if that's true and has been changed, but it's currently 150. At 50 you have access to like 28 with the remaining 7 spread until you get echo last (makes sense to unlock her last). Sombra is somewhere over 100, I know this because I started an alt account to solo comp without my friends and it took me so many games to unlock sombra.
I am new myself, as I started at the launch of ow2 and, in my opinion, this certain requirement was very fun. It was cool learning the game and slowly getting to grips with what the different heroes do. Having the goal of unlocking a certain character persuaded me to play more and, eventually, I totally fell in love with the gameplay. I still enjoy it even though I understand that many OG's miss the old Overwatch.
Flats just doesn’t know how games like Diablo immortal make their money. Its gambling and the majority of their money is from whales. Its like that for EVERY gacha game and diablos is one of the greediest ones considering the company
OW2 is sustaining, but the game's perception is dying. From once GOTY to now... this. Who knows what next year has in store, but once Bobby leaves, its all on them now- no one else to fall back to. And in my opinion, this year, they need to fundamentally change the gameplay of OW2, fix its monetization model, and get back player's trust through mending once broken promises. Is that all possible? Who knows. But seems like Blizzard has no other choice.
Nah this sounds retarded to me. They need public attention and that is from like a show or a new cool RUclips shorts, story mode stuff. If they severely change the gameplay than they risk losing the games current playerbase. I’m a solo longtime player of ow I’ll always play this game, but casuals need cool new shit which requires lots of money which I hope Microsoft provides. Like idk how the fuck this idea that balance patches bring in tons of new players has any fucking traction.
Is it even possible to mend the broken promises? Nothing short of PVE coming back and absolutely blowing expectations out of the water is going to mend the trust lost over it's cancellation. I don't think anyone realistically believes that's gonna happen, so at that point why have any hope at all?
@@jamescastle7704 That's the point I was getting at. I've spouted all the things they can fix- some are achievable and some may not be. But the reason why I said the promise thing last was..... well..... A broken promise is just that. So unless they are able to turn it around other cooler things to help fill that void, alongside an excellent campaign, nothing can truly fulfill that role. As such, it will be difficult for them to recapture their once loyal fanbase and reputation. Is it possible? Yes, as we've seen with Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky. But, it will take time, and honestly, that is something Blizzard doesn't have when it comes to their audience thanks to their past. Now that Bobby is gone, they may buy themselves time to mend and fix some of that promise-whether small or big. But at this point, it's all on them, and they'll no one but themselves to blame (coughcough *Bungie* coughcough)
The biggest issue for me is that the game feels like it wants at my wallet more than it wants to be enjoyable. I mean the base gameplay is still fun, but OW2 is just not rewarding to play. Grinding out a battlepass feels like ass even in games that do it much better, and adding in the fomo from legendary skins and hero unlocks introduces what I feel is the worst part of gacha games. For me its just the worst of both worlds, and I kind of hate it a little more every time I login for a new season to grind up whatever new hero has come out. And thats not the only part that sucks, it feels like OW2 has stripped away all of the socialness(?) of the game. Group finder is gone (along with flex roles), general chat is gone, the stay as team option is there so briefly it basically doesnt count, you can no longer prefer/avoid players, and it feels like the matchmaker goes out of its way to make sure you are never playing with the same players even when its 3 am and queue times are approaching 10 minutes. And then theres all the problems that have come with OW2 going f2p, the amount of leavers, cheaters, and trolls, is far higher than I ever remember having to deal with in OW1. And ngl its just sad seeing people running around with base skins and not spamming emotes and voice lines, at least in OW1 the pro genjis and braindead torbs spamming voicelines was at least amusing. Playing with a bunch of silent players with base skins feels no different than playing with bots imho. And at the end of the day balance and content just dont matter as much to me when everything else just feels fundamentally broken, and I dont think Blizzard really cares, they cant see the forest for the trees when it comes to monetization and the social aspects of the game. I think the game would not feel any better if the game were perfectly balanced, and they were churning out 10x the content, because no matter what under the current system every thing they do just seems to be to get at my credit card. If they want my money they can just let me buy the game, fix the social stuff, and let me unlock content without whipping out my credit card or grinding my life away at the game like its a second job.
Think his point was "players like the game and play the game" but perception is reality, the ick players have for the game as a whole and the situation with pve, monetization, balancing, all the scandals - the feeling is that the game is dying. If anything our trust in Blizzard is dead or close to dyin and especially in these slow boring seasons its easier to feel that is even more true. We are basically told to "hurry up and wait" for something better in the future and then it comes and its underwhelming almost every time. So in all, yes the game or at least the positive perception of the game is long since dead or dying for various reasons and Blizzard and the Devs are basically clawing tooth and nail through the dirt to correct their shortcomings. Even now with the hopes that season 9 will be worth the wait, there is still the fog of seasons past giving everyone fear of disappointment. They are making an effort so hopfully in a year from now they will fully correct course and fix their predatory monetization, come out with better balance patches, have more worthwhile content more frequently, be more open and honest about why they do the dumb things they do, and finally rebuild that trust they demolished.
Exactly this. It’s why he act like drops are important. No they are important for him and keep him locked into OW financially but majority don’t wanna give some creator money for a spray and a recolored skin. I’d gladly spend 9 hours doing anything else.
And it's alright. Let him stay and cook in this cess pool that OW2 is. To me, streamers like him played a role in what went wrong with the game. Ofc, a guy who plays the game like a job, 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, has different needs. But those needs and the changes to accommodate them made the game worse, slowly but steadily. I remember the first year 2016-2017 up to Ana. It's insane how good OW was back then.
As someone who stopped playing a long time ago, an issue i have with most multiplayer games is each addition, update, and additional content adds more and more complexity that makes it extremely difficult to start if you havent been around through the whole time
@@scumknight6074Sojourn took a lot more to play consistently with and perform than Mauga comparatively upon releases. Sojourn now is definitely an alright character who's performance is great for the current meta because she is strong against the tanks that are strongest, but Mauga is literally the meta defining character rn, and Sojourn was only like that at high levels of play upon OW2 release. I don't want to go back to that, ofc, but Mauga is definitely a bigger blight on the competitive community at large for OW2.
@@kommandantkillcode They’re both incredibly un fun to fight. Any squishy should honestly just ignore Sojourn just because of her stupid burst damage output.
@@ValentinoMarino11 Most DPS have higher consistency burst damage outputs, and will win 1V1s against Soj if both are hitting their shots and getting their minimum ttks. In team fight scenarios, Sojourn is strong, but that still depends on how the teams are coordinating their engagements.
@@scumknight6074 Aint nobody one tricking Sojourn from bronze to anywhere much higher. She is really fucking strong, but she does actually require mechanics.
It kinda hurts me whenever he defends something though ngl it's kinda crazy lmao like especially defending the shop is insane maybe he hasn't in awhile I'm not sure but seeing him defend the shop awhile ago just hurt me inside
@@bambampewpew32i wouldn’t say he was defending the shop. I’d say he just accepted the fact that the shop prices will never change therefore constant complaints about it won’t do anything.
@@sickandafraidI can agree in the part that complaining won’t do anything the best way people want to actually do something about it and is trying to get a community together to just stop paying from the shop. Blizzard cares about money so hurt them In the place they care bout most
@@bambampewpew32flats understands the practicality of why things cost the way they do in the shop. OW2 is a F2P game, so it has to make money somehow. OW1 died mostly due to the fact that it was a “live service” game that was sold at a box price, but wasn’t making any money because you could earn everything for free after that. (Which was awesome for us but they need money to develop the game as well). The prices in the shop now are actually pretty on par with, and even cheaper than other similar F2P FPS games. (CoD, FN, Apex, etc) So yeah, OW2 is F2P, so they’re going to make money by selling cosmetics. Are some of them expensive, yes. But that’s how games are monetized in today’s culture, and you can not get a F2P game without making money somehow. And also you technically do not have to buy anything. And get an entire game for free.
I would argue that OW1 died because Blizzard left it to die on the backs of some very empty promises. OW2 could be a massive success but in all honesty it's a small game, that's super fun sure, but really just a shell of what it could have been. @@joshuacollins9316
Would anyone else here love to see Flats give TF2 a try someday, as a way for him to see what came before and such? I absolutely love the game and still play it to this day.
I used to play Overwatch but don't any more. 1. From the moment I saw the first "Brothers in a museum" cinematic, I wanted an Overwatch action RPG, or MMO, or just ANY story/ narrative game centering the characters and the world, which is what I cared about. Blizzard's inability to get anything AT ALL out in that vein and just keeping OW a shooter has been a constant disappointment. 2. Arcane, but Overwatch. Advent Children, but Overwatch. Where???? 3. The game itself used to feel like a fun, cartoony beer and pretzels game. Then serious people got serious, Blizzard pushed hard to make it an e-sport, now people yell at you if you play casual even in Quickplay. 4. The current game is visually incomprehensible to me. Spectating it is like having LSD injected into the base of my skull while I'm getting mugged with a 4th of July fireworks display (I guess by Soldier). I just can't parse the game visually any more, it's FX soup. And it's even worse for every outsider I've show it to the past few years. They LOVE the characters and can't follow the game (or want to) at all.
4. The current game is visually incomprehensible to me. Spectating it is like having LSD injected into the base of my skull while I'm getting mugged with a 4th of July fireworks display (I guess by Soldier). I just can't parse the game visually any more, it's FX soup. And it's even worse for every outsider I've show it to the past few years. They LOVE the characters and can't follow the game (or want to) at all. This is somewhat a fair complain of overwatch in general, but I feel it's a bit disengenous to say the "current game" OW1 was so much worse about this.
@@HuginMunin OW2 did a lot to remove visual clutter tbh, just the fact that you have at most 2 shields total on the battlefield at any given time without ultimates makes a big difference. It's still an *issue* in the game, mind you. But it's leagues better than it was during sigma/orisa meta for example.
@@sirgarde2293 I can't think of a single OW1 ability that clutters the screen as much as Ramattra's and Lifeweaver's ults do. Not to mention OW2 overall is way more fast-paced than OW1 in general so that gain from removing a slot doesn't even really work.
17:20 Okay, I have an issue with that take. It all would be great if: (1 Challenges were active immediately, (2 finding what you need to do was easy and wouldn't require player to search for a way to unlock hero in challenge tabs for some reason. Yeah, I know it says that you need to finish challenges to unlock hero, but simple things like immediately redirecting player to said challenges upon clicking the "challenge" word in that sentence, or ability to activate said challenge from hero screen would help a lot of people. Because what most often happens is that new person joins, sees that heroes slowly unlock via playing, then gets stuck with five heroes that just refuse to be playable. You're looking at it from perspective of someone who knows about this game, knows about mechanics both in match and outside, and can create most efficient way to get through things. But that's not what fresh, new players do. You talk about things affecting people who can't even play ranked, while thinking like top 500. Some problems to you aren't even a consideration because you have been past them years ago, but to many they're deal-breakers.
I have thousands of hours in OW1 and I WANT to get back into OW2 but I have maybe less than 50 hours since launch. Idk what I need to do but I would love to get back into the game.
Overwatch is definelty not going up, but thats just maybe personal experience alot of people i used to play with have moved on to other shooters.I moved to south afric with my family and the servers here are horrendous,Competitive is just filled with bots every third game, like Actual full team bots and usually its just you and four other bots that run out of spawn and stop,apparently this has been an issue for a while after talking to people on the mic, feels like they dont really care about this side of the world lol
Why should it not be dying? The Mythic skins are more like Legendary these days, the Battle pass is not worth it with all the pointless fillers like CoD leftover namecards and souvenirs(?), the insane cost of skins, majority of matches is an endless steamrolling or get steamrolled disaster and so on. The fact that it's still alive is a miracle.
7:30 To be fair to the metal ranks, when Reaper got giga buffed, and was doing the same thing to metal ranks that Brig did to high ranks, all the streamers and content creators said Reaper was fine, and slightly weak. Reaper was nearly unkillable in low ranks, and playing support was literally a death sentence if they had a Reaper. Every streamer and creator in Masters+ was complaining that reaper was still underpowered. But yeah, let's discuss how the game should be balanced top down, and how that's healthy for the majority of the player base. 😂
They didn't say they were removing heroes from the battlepass, they just said they were looking at things about new heroes. The title of the video was the only place it was said that they were removing them from the battlepass. So still quite possible for heroes not to be free or not part of the battlepass.
@@christopher7692 They actually said "we would like for every single player to be able to experience new heroes the day the season drops" While that might mean they're free, it could also mean that you have a limited window to try them before they have to be paid for, or that you need to complete a certain number of games for them to be unlocked permanently. I HOPE it means that they'll be free, but that's not technically what he said. He also said he can't talk about the details, so that suggests it's going to be something other than the heroes just being completely free.
@@xathlak Maybe instead of having to reach a certain free tier on the BP or getting the Premium BP you simply have to do some challenges to unlock them just like how you can when you missed the season they dropped. Kinda like you need to play a tutorial for the hero to unlock them.
@@93Chowo or how about they just....make all the characters playable from the beginning? Why have people do some artificial goal to get access to a hero?
Its not dying yet, but definitely wounded... Every major decision they've made has been a negative.. besides MAYBE f2p.. monetization made worse, huge content drought, lied about PVE, killed ranked, removed rewards, etc etc... Sure there have been a few patches here and there that have added/fixed things the community wanted.. but its still 1 step forward, 2 steps back...
It's funny, I never thought the Overwatch 2 story campaign stuff sounded like anything I wanted. When they finally announced it was dead I only lamented the time they wasted on it.
Flats, you had said you were a business major. From what I have learned, sustained is dying regarding leadership. If you aren't growing, you are dying. I disagree with that, but leadership believes it and as we have found out, the leadership cares about continual profit growth, not sustaining. We know that blizzard doesn't want to make money, they want to make all the money and sustaining isn't all the money.
Seeking all the money put Overwatch in that situation. They attempt to make Diablo Immortal money with Overwatch, but the consumers are not the same. The growth will be stopped if you are greedy.
17:10 something I’ve always thought blizzard should add are small tutorials that are specific to every hero in the game. I agree that a new player would probably feel overwhelmed with all the hero options, so unlocking hero’s does kind of make sense, but they might not need to do that if they had hero tutorials that teach players how their abilities work and interact with other abilities.
When I started playing ow2 I thought the hero mastery challenges were supposed to be something like that, but now I know it will take ages for half the cast to be available on that
I don’t think OW is dead/dying but I think it’s stagnant. My biggest questions are what are they doing to hook previous players in? What are they doing to get new players into the game? I haven’t played the game since launch. Once my friends lost interest and went back to League we were waiting for the PVE and campaign( we know how that turned out).
5:52 I'm an ow2 player and I've heard how awful and not fun brig was to play against, i never actually knew how bad it was. but seeing these patche notes for her makes me happy i wasn't playing in ow1😭🙏
@@darcidious99You couldn't 1v1 a rein without first using your ult though. Rein had more HP and damage than Brig could handle. And that is assuming you block the Rein's earth shatter since if Brig gets to ult, the Rein gets to ult in the comparison.
"Those things just aren't in our plans anymore." And I'll forgive them when they get them back in their plans and do them right. Until then I don't trust a word they say, even as friends still play, and therfore I still play.
OW is pretty stable imo... but I don't think it'll ever get bigger than it is at this point. For its gameplay loop, it pretty much hit the wall faster than what League has hit in its decade long run, a tired gameplay loop (LoL has silent plans and I believe Arena mode is the beginning). This was why the hopes for campaign solo/coop mode for OW2 was hype.
It definitely is dying. Ever since the start of THIS season, my playtime has decreased significantly. I used to play 2-4 hours a night on a daily basis, and even longer on the weekends. Now, I play roughly 30mins a day or even less. I look at the ultimate reward this season pass has to offer and the fking discount beetle mythic skin just turns me off instantaneously. And Muaga's release is definitely just pouring gasoline into a raging fire. Edit: I used to game with 6 irl friends regularly, 5 of them have quit shortly after PVE was canceled. The last friend only logs on to check shops. I'm deciding to quit permanently if next season is just as disappointing.
17:20 That’s why they usually have Firing Ranges/Training Rooms in order for you to mess around with the characters and figure out who you like playing. No offence Flats, but I can’t think of any person who would look at a large roster of characters with around 2/3rds of them inaccessible to the player and think: “Man, I’m sure glad my character choices are so limited right now! 😊” Considering that the first hero I ever played in Overwatch 1 (Zen) and my main hero (Junkrat) would both be locked until I had to grind the necessary amount of challenges just to play them if I was new, it would definitely deter me if I was a newbie. It’d be like if you went to a restaurant that boasted over 100 different types of burgers available but you can only order from a limited menu of 8 and spend $200 total over your visits before you get the ‘privilege’ to order from the full menu. Paladins is at 59 Heroes... I regularly play like, 16 of them, and I love trying to mess around with new characters. Yeah, they have characters behind paywalls too. They also let you buy them with the game’s non-premium currency, as well as actually *give* you enough free premium currency to get every 2nd Battlepass. Overwatch’s coins require you to grind out 11 challenges just to get a mere 60 each week. Sign into Paladins a full week to get 50 Crystals. Overwatch’s BP is 1000 Coins while Paladin’s BP is 400 Crystals. Both of them clearly want you to spend money, but with Paladins it feels like more of a choice than an obligation with Overwatch.
The point of the video is show that many features of OW 1 had a worst version of it in OW 2, and this is a huge red flag for players, I understand that not all the changes are bad, is just by comparison leaves a bad impression, for example knowing that not all heroes are avaliable at any moment, in OW 1 they are avaliable so knowing that they aren't anymore leaves a bad feeling of "before I have all of them, now I'm not?"
when people talk about steam charts and twitch viewers people seen to completely ignore the fact that consoles and youtube exist and there is people watching/playing on those at the same time
I know so many people that were outside of the community that purchased the Watchpoint bundle thinking they had to just to play. I don't know why but almost everyone I know that did it thought that's how they would get "the full game."
@@muysli.y1855 it was indeed scummy. I feel like the consistently bait people for money. Not just in OW but across all their properties. It's not the Blizzard I grew up loving
Me and my friend played comp yesterday. My friend is silver 4. I am Gold 2. Me and him both went 5-1 in ranked. I ranked up to Gold 1, and he stayed in Silver 4. I love competitive
I played only quick play before and decided to play ranked this season. In dps 5-5 and got placed und plat 4 and support 5-6 I got placed plat 2. for myself I thought I was that level already because I can play any hero if needed and have game sense and aim. But how the fuck does the ranking work in this game. I never played ranked because I didn’t care
I just want the devs to be better at communicating through their support system. Like I’ve contacted and sent in multiple appeals for my account, but they refuse to bolster. For context, I was banned supposedly for cheating even though I never abused any cheat. But the devs don’t get that and have continued to uphold my ban and gatekeep me from my account dating back to 2016. 💀
I think he made valid points. I do not see any of my old Overwatch friends play Overwatch 2, even though each could. Personally I do not find a monetized game like OW2 attractive. With the lack of PvE it is dead for me. Blizzard could have kept me as a player if they had kept the OW1 model - they lost me by switching to the model "everybody uses".
For Overwatch to grow its success and popularity, Blizzard needed to make it a huge brand. Multiple, separate games, animated shorts, maybe even a movie or series. They were on track to do just that, but somebody (Bobby Kotick) knew his time was ticking down and wanted short term profits. That's why everything got canned for an excessive focus on PvP and microtransactions in an environment where the most prominent way people enjoy League of Legends is on Netflix.
If anyone here has ever played RoboCraft back around 2017 and was in the scene, then you know exactly how a fun game and a vibrant community dies due to over monetization and lack of care from the company. The developers 101% care about Overwatch, its just sad to see that the executives didn't realize they already had gold.
I don't like how only a few heroes in each role are viable each season and how i usually end up having to play some variation of a hitscan whenever i play dps. If they introduce new heroes with cool playstyles (that arent just another hitscan with some weird gimmick) i feel like this game could be better
I'm not sure, i guess the game is currently rather stable. But on the other hand during an evening or night of gaming i do find the same persons rather often in my matches. I was kinda sad with them abandoning PvE the way they promised it, but I still enjoy the game itself. It has been and is a big part of my life. Hours of fun and actually at times found some pretty nice people to play with. Currently eagerly awaiting the Competitive-Rework which sounds promising, to get back into ranked. I really wanna go and see where I can actually get to since imo I improved a lot. Game's certainly not dying despite the higher ups in Blizzard trying their best to make it happen. x)
I would like to comment my own experience with the prevalence of this game. 5 years ago this game was still very popular and played very often by kids my age. Nowadays not a single friend or anyone I know plays it. The E-sports Overwatch team at my HS disbanded. This game is dead at my school.
Really love the persona chill music. Really keeps the mood light in what could be taken as a negative video. I agree that from the outside the game doesn’t look too great but it’s sustainable and one can only hope things improve at Blizzard soon
I will always believe that if any team shooter wants to be fun it has to do what tf2 did to balance things. Not everything needs to be overscaled or hell, just difficult to balance, when you can have more people in a match. When I play 5v5 hero shooters the general feeling is that it's so few people and so much they want to do with their flashy and fun mechanics that there will always be a conflict of interest. Always will it want to make you feel important but at the same time with only 5v5 it's not achievable that this will happen, which can build overtime into feeling like you have such cool things and end in feeling like having nothing to do with it. A good team shooter in my eyes, is like 8v8, 10v10, 12v12, 16v16, or somewhere in that ballpark, and doesn't force in things like definitive classes, instead having you customize your character or kit to maximize your enjoyment of the game. Enough players that you can still be impactful but not so few that getting a single kill immediately means a win is always a welcome addition that just adds more dopamine to the brain soup that is video games while still letting it taste like the old flavour.
That's a good view, it feels true for ow but I don't think it's true for a game like pvzgw2 cuz you can have up to16 players in some moods and very choosing "too much defensive/offensive characters will ruin he game experience imo)
I am putting all my hopes towards the Microsoft acquisition. I don't expect immediate change buta great year with lots of improvements at seasons 10 and 11
@@folabi7218 Yeah, it'll be a while if Microsoft even ends up changing things with this game. Whenever they announce "long-term" goals it takes 3-6 seasons to actually push out, and there's even longer of a time where the ideas are cooking in the oven before announcement.
Man, PVE was gonna be the shift to a whole new game. I was ready to stop grinding comp. I wanted to play that so bad, and enjoy the OW story. What a joke.
Game just feels way to soulless now, with the transition to 5v5 we lost lots of depth, strategy and teamplay. Sure everyone always loves to bring up 2x Shield, but do you really think that would be so hard to fix? Would have been easier than going 5v5, reworking 8+ Heroes and having a giant Counterswapp issue thats for sure. Even just reworking Orisa, or making it so that if you have 2 Shield tanks on your team they lose 30% of Shield Health could have been small fixes to 2x Shield. I used to play OW everyday, it was my favourite game, but as soon as the 5v5 beta came out and i played it for like 3 days, my passion for the game just died. I went back to 6v6 while the 5v5 beta was up and it was really depressing to know that the superior version of OW wont exist anymore.
Also pressing E on charging Reinhardt was not a very strategic gameplay. Nor Dva and Winston diving Ana. In fact 2022 5v5 Ovewatch League was as strategic as Goats, while not being stale
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Im sure pressing "H" and swapping to a Hero to make another hero completly useless by counterswapping them is peak strategy and makes for a game with a lot of depth, yeah man
I think the fear of 2x shields has been greatly exaggerated in the context of Overwatch 2. Orisa lost her shield, Mauga, Ramattra, Doom and Junker Queen can do a decent job countering shields tank-side, Sombra and Sojourn together are good shield stoppers and deterrents.
Honestly liked the lootboxes as they were purely cosmetic and didnt contribute to game power. It would be nice if they kept lootboxes for ow1 content but anything ow2 be paid for. That way u get free stuff to encourage player retention and anything new due to the f2p model will be met with more positive behaviour
It would have worked if the game was remade from scratch TO ACCOUNT FOR one less tank, but it really wasnt. Ball is fighting for his fucking life to stay relevant, orisa has dominated most metas, hog looked good for a bit and then they made a better roadhog named mauga, supports were stupid broken for a while making your 1 tank unkillable, kiriko.... Existed. The game plays in a 5v5 format but was balanced for 6v6, it was never going to be balanced.
Also why can’t the two games just coexists, you can complain about the community splitting but in the end people would play what they want, comp is not good and some prefer ow or 2
@@darcidious99 Absolutely this. From the start, 5v5 was flawed. Case in point: Reinhardt. One less tank, and they never gave him the shield strength to compensate for the increased damage he would be taking.
I would say the first failure that killed OW is Brig and after that Role Que. Im pretty sure the main reasons why OW still has players is because of sunk cost fallacy and the porn.
Yeah, it shouldn’t be dying, and that’s why it’s not. I came back a few months ago and it’s become my favourite game. Yeah there are problems, but the game, at its core, is absolutely amazing
‘Comp sucks right now.’ “Bored waiting for (next season)” Came back to see the state of overwatch and it’s safe to say it’s the same shit. Not sad I uninstalled.
"Tf2 is more like 6 years no balance updates" ??? TF2 doesn't need balance updates because the devs aren't trying to justify a endless live service game and just got like 20 maps and a new game mode in the past few months, way more than Overwatch.
I actually started getting into OW right before OW2 came out, without knowing anything about the state of the game in terms of development or meta. I played here and there in OW1, but really decided to get into it right before they announced OW2 without knowing what was to come. Needless to say, I actually deleted the game for 6 months after they announced the cancellation of PvE. It was the main reason I bought OW2 founder pack. It felt like a slap in the face. I came back after Illari was added and had lots of fun playing an overtuned character and started watching KarQ, Eskay, and Flats for tips and tricks on how to be a better player. I love and appreciate you guys and I can get most of my player fantasy by watching you guys absolutely roll. So I guess my biggest takeaway from this reaction is that even us relatively “new” players still want to see this game become the best it can. There is so much potential and fun to be had. I will continue to support and listen and spread the word of you content creators bc you guys know this game needs.
Okay I kinda understand where flats was coming from by saying too Many options can be overwhelming to a player, but it is still very frustrating when you see somebody on the enemy team playing as the character that you want to play, but it's locked
The amount of copium it takes to say this game isn't dying, when you run like a 15% chance of running into the same people that you just ran into for the last five games....it's a dying game
Monetization, balance issues, devs not listening/making "bad" decisions, 5v5, rank inflation, OWL dead. Let's see if there are any other criticisms are brought up in the vid, those are my guesses before I actually watch.
i am one min into this video and the amount of cope flats is spouting is astounding edit: the fact that a game like overwatch isnt growing basically shows how people regard it. all you have is the hardcore players chilling in game while the rest of the gaming community has sworn it off. it can stay sustained like this for a very long time but for a game with this much potential that means its basically dead.
The game may not be dead but it’s a husk of what it once was. A lot of the fun has gone and in its place are pain points like bad monetization and poor balance. It was never looked at strongly in the gaming community but now it’s just looked down on and you get shit on for liking it. We can huff all the cope we want that the game isn’t dead but it’s f2p model and overpriced shop prices are the only thing keeping it going. It’s just a beaten horse they keep rolling out there for us to beat more. My final thing is I hate how this guy thinks “drops” is content or something the majority of the community cares about. The drops suck and are also a joke. It’s just a way to keep their small creators supported and from jumping ship to another game. Only the small percent and whales sit around all day for a recolored skin and a spray they’ll never use. The games damaged reputation will never get better under the current monetization/balance model.
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I wish Valve still made games 😢
Do you not have VR? (HL Alex)
Artifact.
TF3 pog
and we are live
They got somethin cooking in the background, lets hope this "Neon Prime" isn't just another 90% finished game that gets shelved due to internal complications.
It feels like the game is sick. It's not dying, but it sure feels like it.
don't forget about SBMM as a solo player it's very frustrating, it's not even fun to play. you either get steamed rolled or get a team full of idiots.
It’s been sick since release. How long can you be sick before someone just pulls the cord?
Look at twitch viewership now... the state of game, players aren't enjoying it anymore. Litertally 25k on a holiday break watching... so damn low its embarrassing honestly. I remember watching 50-80k. Nobody really cares about getting better at this moment too, a lot of it is just players get on and play a couple games and hop off until they're bored again.
I just feel sad that there's nothing they can do currently to make me play this game again, and i used to love this game. Pve is a joke and they don't care about the workshop, which still insane to me that they don't invest in the workshop anymore. At the end of the day, why would i go back to ow? To grind for skins that i used to have for free? And on top of that ow 2 reworks are not worthy of the "2", the Rog rework for example is basically the same exact character but a bit different, how is that a rework?
@dgiorr Roadhog rework bad??Bro he was the worst character in the game for multiple seasons and now he's finally a viable pick and you think it was a terrible rework because you think it didn't change anything? Hate to break it to you but not every rework has to change every single ability to something new. Sometimes it just requires minimal changes to how you play the character to be a rework.
A big problem with hero challenges to unlock them is if you miss two hero releases like I did (lifeweaver and illari) then you can only progress one character challenge at a time. So I needed 80 or so games for two heroes, during a season where both were very strong (last season)
Wait, let's say I come back after a year and I want rammatra and mauga? Can't I do this challenges?
@@misterfevillord1588you can do the challenges but you can only activate and progress one hero challenge at a time.
@@misterfevillord1588 Yes but one at a time.
@@Gerwhal you mean one per season?
@@misterfevillord1588 u can only activate one hero's challenge at a time , its not like u have to complete all the challenges to activate another hero's challenges but u can only progress the challenges that are active
U can unlock multiple characters in a season , but u need to play a lot of games
we need more content like animated shorts, those really helped establish Overwatch as an IP. How there’s not an Overwatch show on netflix or something yet is beyond me and seems like such a missed opportunity
The marketing team for blizzard is so trash. The art team is carrying 40% of this game. So I’m with you, I don’t understand why we haven’t given the art team room to thrive. Blizzard’s marketing team is really holding them back. Riot games for example has both good art and marketing and they literally can’t be stopped on the gaming scene.
True, I haven't watched a show or movie in years now, but that is something that I would actually watch the F out of.
iirc, the one who was behind the overwatch cinematics retired no? he was the wow guy but irl, the character was based of him.
Okay but how does that make the game better? More immersive yes but it does nothing to fix the problems the game has.
@@Bongkaiii it's advertisement, but without a corpa feel. bringing more players to overwatch would give more incentive for the higher ups to give instructions to devs to fix the game.
one thing I feel worth mentioning is that you shouldn't use twitch viewership to gauge how overwatch 2 is doing. Its numbers are heavily padded since they constantly have twitch drops, so a lot of people end up watching OW 2 streams when they aren't actually watching.
Without drops usually 10-20k viewers , with drops about 30-40k. Still quite low for a ftp live service game
If anything, youtube views are a better metric since a choice has to be actively made. Low views means the audience doesn't care enough to watch.
When there was a couple things I wanted I would hop onto a stream and just mute my sound and go do more important things.
Everyone who uses Twitch metrics conveniently forgets about Twitch drops. I have all the special Nano Cola sprays for Dva because I just picked a random Twitch channel and let it play while I went to bed.
But if those people watch for the drops, then they're probably still invested in the game ? Invested enoigh to get a shitty spray or skin for a character that they might wanna play
"Weve already hit the floor"
Nah, even with the PVE thing id say thats more so a horrible mess thats gonna take alot to recover from but to say thats gonna the be the "bottom floor" is just wishful thinking, it can still get worse, idk how but gaming companies will find a way
Especially Blizzard
I’m just waiting for Blizzard to take the shovel out.
Getting "Promised the world and gave us Rhode Island" on a shirt cause that's a fire line and I love the thought of making a trip to Rhode Island just to flaunt that shirt
I feel like something else to consider is that it doesnt feel like people are recommending it. The player base may stay stagnant but it won't really grow if outside preception is this bad imo
Looking back on the launch of the game most of the excuses on the PvP problems of was that they were working on PvE. They said it so much that many fans/creators were convinced at least half the team if not more was working on PvE which is why PvP balancing/problems were not getting fixed at all.
Let's not forget how bad the launch of OW2 was. When OW2 first launched, it was in "early access" mode because PvE was still coming.(Flats also mentioned it back in the day) Again this was with them without the freedom/having a say on things, but it doesn't take away the fact that it was a horrible launch. Successful? Sure, but being successful doesn't always mean it was good. Queue login times were horrendous, balance was all over, accounts needed phone#'s, accounts were locked for days, heroes were locked, account merging messes with everything, you'd get kicked out of a ranked match midway due to horrible servers and get banned, loot boxes turned into useless tokens(they're kinda okay now I guess but not during launch), the list goes on.
It was so bad that I literally got an email from Blizzard yesterday of them responding to my account merge issue I sent them a YEAR ago. Saying that everything should be fixed and thanking me for being patient.
So for me, after all the bad steps OW2 took since launch and sticking with them... believing they can deliver, and then dropping the bomb saying PvE isn't coming turned me from a diehard player into a casual play once per month kinda person. And it just sucks. "It just sucks" in my opinion is the best way to explain the whole situation. And if you read this whole thing thanks lol every time I see a video like this it just makes me want to vent out the frustrations.
I feel ya. So much pay to grind, ow coins r so hard to earn, can't buy new bp by completing old bp, bp bloated with souvenirs n boring content etc. Just feels like theres no point even playing.
Not to mention I bought a bundle 6months ago and still haven't received the profile icon.. (customer support have not responded lol) such an embarrassment
I feel ya. I loved this game and spent so many hours playing OW1. It feels bad that neither I or anyone else can experience that joy anymore.
A stable player base is not necessarily a good thing for a f2p game. Since only a small amount of players will spend any amount of money, this puts a hard ceiling on the amount of revenue the game can make, especially after lootboxes were removed. The game needs to constantly pump out new content to keep money flowing in, which the current team has proven to struggle with.
Where will the goal post be next? Who knows? 😂
There only so many skins people will buy. The real money for f2p games comes from weapons and upgrades but OW doesn't have that. Characters have character specific guns that can't change and two weeks into OW2 I can't figure out if I'm even able to improve my stats. Not to mention the battle pass garbage I had to go through just to sign into the game
@@Wolfman7870 League has neither, DOTA has neither, CSGO has neither, Valorant has neither, just like Overwatch and those are doing fine.
Esports scene is a bigger factor imho for Overwatch succes than weapons and upgrades being sold, it's not COD.
Heroes are meant to be stagnant cause it's meant to be competive, not who brought the better loadout.
@TappedWalnut my dude, those two factors are easily defeated by the fact that 1: Overwatch had an esports scene and it still got to this point and 2: if the characters are meant to be stagnant then you should mention that to Blizzard because they're constantly giving their characters buffs, nerfs and changing their kit which is essentially like giving them different loadouts each time
@@Droulix You really gonna be semantic when i am telling a guy Overwatch isn't COD and that improving stats/loadout isn't a thing?
Also
1: The E-sports is nothing compared to what it used to be cause there is hardly any money invested. It's contenders and collegiate but no actually pro scene.
2: Stagnant as in you can't change loadout/stats my dude. Every game i mentioned has had balance patches, would be kinda fucked if we had release Brig, Xin Zhao, Monkey king etc ....
wtf are you even on about, balance patches still doesn't mean heroes aren't meant to be stagnant going from game to game not patch to patch ....
I played OW1 so casually back in 2018 I never knew how broken Brig was.. Now having a solid understanding of the game, she was BROKEN!!!!!
Flats reading all the nerfs has me absolutely crying laughing 💀💀💀
same
See I was in plat, which is that rank where people really actually start to try and understand the game, so I've never seen fully optimized brig gameplay in a match before...
I can tell you even a mid player like me was damn near indestructible, she had no good counters at all and could 1v1 tanks easy. Tracer couldn't flank her because brig had the easiest 1 shot combo on her in the world (shield bash, left click, whip shot), reaper was scary but shield bash boop him away and now he's not a threat. Only things that ever concerned me were junk and Hanzo cause you NEED that shield to engage, and those 2 fire from range. Even then though shield bash mobility lets you close space quickly.
That bitch was BROKEN, one of the strongest characters possibly ever made.
Same, I was mostly away from the game from when she was released to OW2 release, so it was and still is a bit of a shock to see the vitriol, but now it definitely makes sense. That list was nuts lol.
It was all relative. I mean Brig was useless in a ranged fight. But nobody really plays ranged in the game. They all insist on being melee reaper and such, and then complain that Brig is OP because she can survive.
People like to say "45 levels isnt that bad" which its not for someone playing the game daily but a more casual player who plays different games and has a job and family to take care of its pretty hard to get 45 levels before the charcter becomes irrelevant.
30 mins a day is a pretty hard ask for a normal human.
@@mryellow6918 yeah but at that point buying the battle pass would be an easier and much quicker way to get Mauga which makes him pay 2 win
@mryellow6918 is it? 😂
I am 23 years old with a job and yet I have almost 12 hours of free time to play videogames. I am not going to play oversuck 2 anyway but my point is that if you want to have time YOU WILL have time, you just have to want it, focus about it and being selfish enough to do whatever it takes to achieve it
@@ginocanterino258 I'm 36, I work 70h a week, have a family with kids. I have an hour and a half tops to play videogames. What you're saying is completly false. You just don't have ther other obligations yet :)
flats forgets that he used to be a "buT tHERe is STIll PvE"
Flats always pretends his opinions were different than what they actually were.
Even in one of his previous vids he said "sure the game isnt good right now, but at least its not season 4/5 so its not that bad".
Radiates the same energy as "my dad only hit me ONCE today, he must be happy!"
Yeah he’s full of hypocrisies and contradictions these days causes he’s a slave to the almighty blizzard dollar
So Ow2 move from super bad to bad
@muysli.y1855 gameplay is still fun, and it seems to be heading from fair to good for systems.
It may not be dying but you can see especially on the steam chart that even when an entire new season starts or something new gets added the player count stays around the same. It's only gonna go up or down if they continue to drive new players away
16:35 echo needs a minimum of 75 games to unlock (all wins) so you cant play her from the beginning in comp which only takes 50 wins
if you win i think you get double win's. I just unlocked the 2 healers about a week ago and while it was a grind you just play queuing as a healer or all roles.
exactly my point. 150 games total with wins counting double means a minimum of 75 games, which would have to be all wins.@@TheKcXiV
@@NitSoLegga__ but if you lose 50 games and win 50 games, you get echo when you unlock comp. Also, new players usually lose more than 50% of the time, so they actually get echo a bit before getting comp access.
Here's my problem with Flats statement around the 3 minute mark. If the developer craps the game into the ground or floor as he says, anything they do makes it seem like the game is "better" than it was. In reality, a piece of crap is still a piece of crap no matter what. Majority of the reason a sequel was announced was to use PvE as a selling point. Once that was cancelled, there were a lot of players who were ticked off for good reason.
Didn't Miyamoto says something along the lines of:
“A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."
@@BongkaiiiIn what way was he defending it? Can you read?
@@acorn1265 It never delayed just canceld with Jeff leave and lying to Community because they know telling them before Ow2 was release PVE is canceld, it would kill Ow2
Exactly. It's not th game getting better its just you bar is lowered. Also Flats is connected to devs and the studio + his income depends on the game so he's MASSIVELY biased. Basically streamers like him are kinda extension of the marketing department.
Because of PVE I quit the game for several months before coming back to season 8
At this very moment, the game’s content loop has become very stagnant. I come from other games, however, that are able to push through similar stagnations and come out a better game. These games can do this because the community around the game trusts that things will get better. Who here though can trust blizzard anymore to make overwatch live up to its potential ?
I think one of the major differences that you need to consider is the Blizzard Activision acquisition by Microsoft which should change things for the better. Though the change is management hasn't even totally shifted yet, you can already see a MASSIVE improvement in the amount of openness and communication that the devs have started to have with the community. You can already see devs go on podcasts and answering the community's questions on AMAs, which shows that the acquisition has had a major impact on their ability to do things, and now they actually want to make a great game, and hopefully without the complete restrictions from before.
@@ame367 As much as this is a good thing don't expect much to happen for a few months. I'll be surprised if there are actual massive changes within 6 months time, and I can only be hopeful without actual full on support as I have no want to be disappointed.
@@ame367 agreed. I want to believe that Microsoft stepping in will let the game thrive, but its still hard to trust Blizzard after all the times the players have been burned. Plus, Microsoft owning Blizzard starts to open unease about their games on stuff like Playstation or the Switch
@@ame367 While I do generally want to agree and be more positive about this.
All this "communication" and "being open" has been a promise since the release of the game directly from the words of developers themselves.
You've been hearing the exact same promises since release and not that much has changed in what they actually say.
In the past seasons there was several patches released that slightly tweaked issues people were the loudest about in the most non-impactful way possible while putting out blog-posts promising they are looking into the data for those things... Made people scream "they are listening" every patch, and yet the game still hasn't improved all that much.
Imo the game just needs way more maps to feel less stale. There's only so many times you can play Numbani per night before you start getting kinda bored. Adding more maps to the map pool decreases the chance of replaying a map per play session and also makes it more likely you'll get different maps the next time you play as well. I'd like to see them prioritize maps more and just pump out a few ones with assets they already have (and make new ones too but that'll take them a hot minute). F.e. they could rework Ayutthaya to be usable as a Control Point or something. It seems they're somewhat doing this with the Hanamura rework they've sneak peaked but it's just not happening quickly enough.
Launch week was BRUTAL. I wont stand for the erasure of what happened. I and any account that "preregistered" (so core players) in was locked out of ow2. And blizzard knew this was a problem. Preregistrating your account lead to your file being unusable on the new server. A dev communication days later explained that they already KNEW about this issue and that a solution was pushed several days out. They ddnt tell the core players who were hovering excitedand refreshing the game client for hours. Ow1 was gone i was locked out of ow2 and watching streamers get on for free. Blizzard, Communicate early and honestly. I could have stopped trying, made a sandwich or touched grass that week.
Why the fuck didn't you?
I would have tried once each day, and each time I failed I would have played different game.
there is a consistent player base so i don't think it's dying, but it's reputation outside of the ow community is dying/dead tho
The reputation is definitely shit amongst other gamers. I’ve been laughed at for liking this game but never for the first one.
Even twitch viewer cut by 40%+ used to be 50-80k on a normal day, now it's holiday break and 26k... which is sad. Only the diehards play now, I only play every once in a while, all my friends too, keep reading comments and reddit and seems like so many people aren't playing
Well... There is ONE aspect that outsiders do like... And let me tell you what...
They're honestly carrying the OW name😅
@@darcidious99 L corn addict
@@manh7897Those were the numbers of OW in its first 2/3 years, when big streamers like xqc&co. were still part of the comunity. In the last years of ow1 the numbers were way lower than nowdays.
Flats is too biased I’m glad he acknowledged that. He can’t even go through old patch notes without crumbling.
Need to say this that at launch of ow2 it took new players 150 games to unlock all old heros and was change to 50 during season 3
Idk if that's true and has been changed, but it's currently 150. At 50 you have access to like 28 with the remaining 7 spread until you get echo last (makes sense to unlock her last). Sombra is somewhere over 100, I know this because I started an alt account to solo comp without my friends and it took me so many games to unlock sombra.
I am new myself, as I started at the launch of ow2 and, in my opinion, this certain requirement was very fun. It was cool learning the game and slowly getting to grips with what the different heroes do. Having the goal of unlocking a certain character persuaded me to play more and, eventually, I totally fell in love with the gameplay. I still enjoy it even though I understand that many OG's miss the old Overwatch.
Flats just doesn’t know how games like Diablo immortal make their money. Its gambling and the majority of their money is from whales. Its like that for EVERY gacha game and diablos is one of the greediest ones considering the company
I like saying things I feel as facts too 😊
OW2 is sustaining, but the game's perception is dying. From once GOTY to now... this. Who knows what next year has in store, but once Bobby leaves, its all on them now- no one else to fall back to.
And in my opinion, this year, they need to fundamentally change the gameplay of OW2, fix its monetization model, and get back player's trust through mending once broken promises. Is that all possible? Who knows. But seems like Blizzard has no other choice.
Nah this sounds retarded to me. They need public attention and that is from like a show or a new cool RUclips shorts, story mode stuff. If they severely change the gameplay than they risk losing the games current playerbase. I’m a solo longtime player of ow I’ll always play this game, but casuals need cool new shit which requires lots of money which I hope Microsoft provides. Like idk how the fuck this idea that balance patches bring in tons of new players has any fucking traction.
At least make monetizision fair buying BP every season or 60 Premium Coins a week is a joke
Other Games are way better with their monetizision
Is it even possible to mend the broken promises? Nothing short of PVE coming back and absolutely blowing expectations out of the water is going to mend the trust lost over it's cancellation. I don't think anyone realistically believes that's gonna happen, so at that point why have any hope at all?
@@jamescastle7704 That's the point I was getting at. I've spouted all the things they can fix- some are achievable and some may not be. But the reason why I said the promise thing last was..... well.....
A broken promise is just that.
So unless they are able to turn it around other cooler things to help fill that void, alongside an excellent campaign, nothing can truly fulfill that role. As such, it will be difficult for them to recapture their once loyal fanbase and reputation.
Is it possible? Yes, as we've seen with Cyberpunk and No Man's Sky. But, it will take time, and honestly, that is something Blizzard doesn't have when it comes to their audience thanks to their past. Now that Bobby is gone, they may buy themselves time to mend and fix some of that promise-whether small or big. But at this point, it's all on them, and they'll no one but themselves to blame
(coughcough *Bungie* coughcough)
@jamescastle7704 what a dumb standard to set. 😂 just move on to the flavor of the month and stop pretending like you care if that's your bar.
The biggest issue for me is that the game feels like it wants at my wallet more than it wants to be enjoyable. I mean the base gameplay is still fun, but OW2 is just not rewarding to play. Grinding out a battlepass feels like ass even in games that do it much better, and adding in the fomo from legendary skins and hero unlocks introduces what I feel is the worst part of gacha games. For me its just the worst of both worlds, and I kind of hate it a little more every time I login for a new season to grind up whatever new hero has come out.
And thats not the only part that sucks, it feels like OW2 has stripped away all of the socialness(?) of the game. Group finder is gone (along with flex roles), general chat is gone, the stay as team option is there so briefly it basically doesnt count, you can no longer prefer/avoid players, and it feels like the matchmaker goes out of its way to make sure you are never playing with the same players even when its 3 am and queue times are approaching 10 minutes.
And then theres all the problems that have come with OW2 going f2p, the amount of leavers, cheaters, and trolls, is far higher than I ever remember having to deal with in OW1. And ngl its just sad seeing people running around with base skins and not spamming emotes and voice lines, at least in OW1 the pro genjis and braindead torbs spamming voicelines was at least amusing. Playing with a bunch of silent players with base skins feels no different than playing with bots imho.
And at the end of the day balance and content just dont matter as much to me when everything else just feels fundamentally broken, and I dont think Blizzard really cares, they cant see the forest for the trees when it comes to monetization and the social aspects of the game. I think the game would not feel any better if the game were perfectly balanced, and they were churning out 10x the content, because no matter what under the current system every thing they do just seems to be to get at my credit card. If they want my money they can just let me buy the game, fix the social stuff, and let me unlock content without whipping out my credit card or grinding my life away at the game like its a second job.
Literally everything that happened to Destiny2.
it makes me wanna cry, I wanted pve so badly, it would have been game of the year again easily
Flats acting like he isnt like 60% of those OW viewers.
Think his point was "players like the game and play the game" but perception is reality, the ick players have for the game as a whole and the situation with pve, monetization, balancing, all the scandals - the feeling is that the game is dying. If anything our trust in Blizzard is dead or close to dyin and especially in these slow boring seasons its easier to feel that is even more true. We are basically told to "hurry up and wait" for something better in the future and then it comes and its underwhelming almost every time. So in all, yes the game or at least the positive perception of the game is long since dead or dying for various reasons and Blizzard and the Devs are basically clawing tooth and nail through the dirt to correct their shortcomings. Even now with the hopes that season 9 will be worth the wait, there is still the fog of seasons past giving everyone fear of disappointment. They are making an effort so hopfully in a year from now they will fully correct course and fix their predatory monetization, come out with better balance patches, have more worthwhile content more frequently, be more open and honest about why they do the dumb things they do, and finally rebuild that trust they demolished.
Flats is never going to agree with any video like this cause his whole career is based on overwatch 2 staying active
yeah :/
Exactly this. It’s why he act like drops are important. No they are important for him and keep him locked into OW financially but majority don’t wanna give some creator money for a spray and a recolored skin. I’d gladly spend 9 hours doing anything else.
And it's alright. Let him stay and cook in this cess pool that OW2 is. To me, streamers like him played a role in what went wrong with the game. Ofc, a guy who plays the game like a job, 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, has different needs. But those needs and the changes to accommodate them made the game worse, slowly but steadily.
I remember the first year 2016-2017 up to Ana. It's insane how good OW was back then.
@@carljohnson8454 how is it a cess pool
@@wicked5999because someone on reddit told them it was 😂. It's the negative train that gets upvotes and views.
As someone who stopped playing a long time ago, an issue i have with most multiplayer games is each addition, update, and additional content adds more and more complexity that makes it extremely difficult to start if you havent been around through the whole time
Supports were still saying back during Brig release that their role wasn’t broken… I went from Diamond to GM by one-tricking Brig 😂
Same players who one-tricked Sojourn and Mauga, honestly they’re making up excuses to one trick out of Bronze.
@@scumknight6074Sojourn took a lot more to play consistently with and perform than Mauga comparatively upon releases. Sojourn now is definitely an alright character who's performance is great for the current meta because she is strong against the tanks that are strongest, but Mauga is literally the meta defining character rn, and Sojourn was only like that at high levels of play upon OW2 release. I don't want to go back to that, ofc, but Mauga is definitely a bigger blight on the competitive community at large for OW2.
@@kommandantkillcode They’re both incredibly un fun to fight.
Any squishy should honestly just ignore Sojourn just because of her stupid burst damage output.
@@ValentinoMarino11 Most DPS have higher consistency burst damage outputs, and will win 1V1s against Soj if both are hitting their shots and getting their minimum ttks. In team fight scenarios, Sojourn is strong, but that still depends on how the teams are coordinating their engagements.
@@scumknight6074 Aint nobody one tricking Sojourn from bronze to anywhere much higher. She is really fucking strong, but she does actually require mechanics.
Its nice to see Flats be open to the video despite his bias he admitted to.
It kinda hurts me whenever he defends something though ngl it's kinda crazy lmao like especially defending the shop is insane
maybe he hasn't in awhile I'm not sure but seeing him defend the shop awhile ago just hurt me inside
@@bambampewpew32i wouldn’t say he was defending the shop. I’d say he just accepted the fact that the shop prices will never change therefore constant complaints about it won’t do anything.
@@sickandafraidI can agree in the part that complaining won’t do anything the best way people want to actually do something about it and is trying to get a community together to just stop paying from the shop. Blizzard cares about money so hurt them In the place they care bout most
@@bambampewpew32flats understands the practicality of why things cost the way they do in the shop.
OW2 is a F2P game, so it has to make money somehow. OW1 died mostly due to the fact that it was a “live service” game that was sold at a box price, but wasn’t making any money because you could earn everything for free after that. (Which was awesome for us but they need money to develop the game as well).
The prices in the shop now are actually pretty on par with, and even cheaper than other similar F2P FPS games. (CoD, FN, Apex, etc)
So yeah, OW2 is F2P, so they’re going to make money by selling cosmetics. Are some of them expensive, yes. But that’s how games are monetized in today’s culture, and you can not get a F2P game without making money somehow.
And also you technically do not have to buy anything. And get an entire game for free.
I would argue that OW1 died because Blizzard left it to die on the backs of some very empty promises. OW2 could be a massive success but in all honesty it's a small game, that's super fun sure, but really just a shell of what it could have been. @@joshuacollins9316
Would anyone else here love to see Flats give TF2 a try someday, as a way for him to see what came before and such? I absolutely love the game and still play it to this day.
Locking new heroes behind a paywall or a massive grind is unacceptable, even blizz devs agreed years back
Bruh, the floor was hit in OW1 and only dug further in OW2
I met some of my closest friends through OW, i miss that time man. It was so fun
I met my wife through OW! Some of our OW friends came to the wedding :')
Based @@CopShowGuy
I used to play Overwatch but don't any more.
1. From the moment I saw the first "Brothers in a museum" cinematic, I wanted an Overwatch action RPG, or MMO, or just ANY story/ narrative game centering the characters and the world, which is what I cared about. Blizzard's inability to get anything AT ALL out in that vein and just keeping OW a shooter has been a constant disappointment.
2. Arcane, but Overwatch. Advent Children, but Overwatch. Where????
3. The game itself used to feel like a fun, cartoony beer and pretzels game. Then serious people got serious, Blizzard pushed hard to make it an e-sport, now people yell at you if you play casual even in Quickplay.
4. The current game is visually incomprehensible to me. Spectating it is like having LSD injected into the base of my skull while I'm getting mugged with a 4th of July fireworks display (I guess by Soldier). I just can't parse the game visually any more, it's FX soup. And it's even worse for every outsider I've show it to the past few years. They LOVE the characters and can't follow the game (or want to) at all.
That last line…oh god, it’s become Warhammer
4. The current game is visually incomprehensible to me. Spectating it is like having LSD injected into the base of my skull while I'm getting mugged with a 4th of July fireworks display (I guess by Soldier). I just can't parse the game visually any more, it's FX soup. And it's even worse for every outsider I've show it to the past few years. They LOVE the characters and can't follow the game (or want to) at all.
This is somewhat a fair complain of overwatch in general, but I feel it's a bit disengenous to say the "current game"
OW1 was so much worse about this.
@@sirgarde2293 I stopped playing before OW2 came out. As the roster expanded the number of shields and auras and fields increased.
@@HuginMunin OW2 did a lot to remove visual clutter tbh, just the fact that you have at most 2 shields total on the battlefield at any given time without ultimates makes a big difference.
It's still an *issue* in the game, mind you. But it's leagues better than it was during sigma/orisa meta for example.
@@sirgarde2293 I can't think of a single OW1 ability that clutters the screen as much as Ramattra's and Lifeweaver's ults do.
Not to mention OW2 overall is way more fast-paced than OW1 in general so that gain from removing a slot doesn't even really work.
17:20 Okay, I have an issue with that take. It all would be great if: (1 Challenges were active immediately, (2 finding what you need to do was easy and wouldn't require player to search for a way to unlock hero in challenge tabs for some reason. Yeah, I know it says that you need to finish challenges to unlock hero, but simple things like immediately redirecting player to said challenges upon clicking the "challenge" word in that sentence, or ability to activate said challenge from hero screen would help a lot of people.
Because what most often happens is that new person joins, sees that heroes slowly unlock via playing, then gets stuck with five heroes that just refuse to be playable.
You're looking at it from perspective of someone who knows about this game, knows about mechanics both in match and outside, and can create most efficient way to get through things.
But that's not what fresh, new players do.
You talk about things affecting people who can't even play ranked, while thinking like top 500. Some problems to you aren't even a consideration because you have been past them years ago, but to many they're deal-breakers.
I have thousands of hours in OW1 and I WANT to get back into OW2 but I have maybe less than 50 hours since launch. Idk what I need to do but I would love to get back into the game.
Overwatch is definelty not going up, but thats just maybe personal experience alot of people i used to play with have moved on to other shooters.I moved to south afric with my family and the servers here are horrendous,Competitive is just filled with bots every third game, like Actual full team bots and usually its just you and four other bots that run out of spawn and stop,apparently this has been an issue for a while after talking to people on the mic, feels like they dont really care about this side of the world lol
Why should it not be dying?
The Mythic skins are more like Legendary these days, the Battle pass is not worth it with all the pointless fillers like CoD leftover namecards and souvenirs(?), the insane cost of skins, majority of matches is an endless steamrolling or get steamrolled disaster and so on. The fact that it's still alive is a miracle.
The fact that OW 2 has less players than Monster Hunter World right now is crazy.
mhw devs don't lie to their playerbase
I think its funny how fast he swapped from wanting to peave the game after the pve fiasco... to sitting there defending the game hard asf
7:30
To be fair to the metal ranks, when Reaper got giga buffed, and was doing the same thing to metal ranks that Brig did to high ranks, all the streamers and content creators said Reaper was fine, and slightly weak. Reaper was nearly unkillable in low ranks, and playing support was literally a death sentence if they had a Reaper. Every streamer and creator in Masters+ was complaining that reaper was still underpowered.
But yeah, let's discuss how the game should be balanced top down, and how that's healthy for the majority of the player base. 😂
They didn't say they were removing heroes from the battlepass, they just said they were looking at things about new heroes. The title of the video was the only place it was said that they were removing them from the battlepass. So still quite possible for heroes not to be free or not part of the battlepass.
They said word for word I belive "the goal is to allow players to play new characters without paying"
@christopher7692 yea, and that means literally nothing, because that is technically true now.
@@christopher7692 They actually said "we would like for every single player to be able to experience new heroes the day the season drops" While that might mean they're free, it could also mean that you have a limited window to try them before they have to be paid for, or that you need to complete a certain number of games for them to be unlocked permanently. I HOPE it means that they'll be free, but that's not technically what he said. He also said he can't talk about the details, so that suggests it's going to be something other than the heroes just being completely free.
@@xathlak Maybe instead of having to reach a certain free tier on the BP or getting the Premium BP you simply have to do some challenges to unlock them just like how you can when you missed the season they dropped. Kinda like you need to play a tutorial for the hero to unlock them.
@@93Chowo or how about they just....make all the characters playable from the beginning? Why have people do some artificial goal to get access to a hero?
Its not dying yet, but definitely wounded... Every major decision they've made has been a negative.. besides MAYBE f2p.. monetization made worse, huge content drought, lied about PVE, killed ranked, removed rewards, etc etc... Sure there have been a few patches here and there that have added/fixed things the community wanted.. but its still 1 step forward, 2 steps back...
f2p was marred by not having an expensive enough phone
"If you think things can't get worse, your not thinking hard enough" idk some random person
Look up the definition of insanity described by Einstein. Perfectly sums up the Blizz team and the remaining Overwatch playerbase.
"Criiiinge" - D Va
@@chrismclean4789yes the remaining playerbase and blizz is cringe 😅
I missed jeff Kaplan. Felt pretty nostalgic.
When flats ran through the OW1 patch notes for brig, anyone else randomly see the 1 guy reading patch notes to the sims 3?
"the game is boring atm"
my brother it's been boring for like 4 years. The devs are scared to do any meaningful change
It's funny, I never thought the Overwatch 2 story campaign stuff sounded like anything I wanted. When they finally announced it was dead I only lamented the time they wasted on it.
Flats, you had said you were a business major. From what I have learned, sustained is dying regarding leadership. If you aren't growing, you are dying. I disagree with that, but leadership believes it and as we have found out, the leadership cares about continual profit growth, not sustaining. We know that blizzard doesn't want to make money, they want to make all the money and sustaining isn't all the money.
Seeking all the money put Overwatch in that situation. They attempt to make Diablo Immortal money with Overwatch, but the consumers are not the same. The growth will be stopped if you are greedy.
I honestly really miss the old archives event modes. Had so much fun with them, and I wish they would bring them back.
17:10 something I’ve always thought blizzard should add are small tutorials that are specific to every hero in the game. I agree that a new player would probably feel overwhelmed with all the hero options, so unlocking hero’s does kind of make sense, but they might not need to do that if they had hero tutorials that teach players how their abilities work and interact with other abilities.
When I started playing ow2 I thought the hero mastery challenges were supposed to be something like that, but now I know it will take ages for half the cast to be available on that
I don’t think OW is dead/dying but I think it’s stagnant. My biggest questions are what are they doing to hook previous players in? What are they doing to get new players into the game? I haven’t played the game since launch. Once my friends lost interest and went back to League we were waiting for the PVE and campaign( we know how that turned out).
5:52 I'm an ow2 player and I've heard how awful and not fun brig was to play against, i never actually knew how bad it was. but seeing these patche notes for her makes me happy i wasn't playing in ow1😭🙏
It's amazing how 1 character managed to kill an entire game. The fact that they released a support that could reliably 1v1 a rein is a fucking joke.
I remember one time where I casually 1v3'd a Zarya that was getting double pocketed by a Mercy and an Ana. Release Brig was dummy broken.
Watch Flats reaction to Brigitta tips
support players still argued she was balanced at release (at the time)
@@darcidious99You couldn't 1v1 a rein without first using your ult though. Rein had more HP and damage than Brig could handle. And that is assuming you block the Rein's earth shatter since if Brig gets to ult, the Rein gets to ult in the comparison.
As a bartender at the most popular bar in the city I live in, you would be shocked at the amount of money i bring in on a weekend
"Those things just aren't in our plans anymore."
And I'll forgive them when they get them back in their plans and do them right. Until then I don't trust a word they say, even as friends still play, and therfore I still play.
OW is pretty stable imo... but I don't think it'll ever get bigger than it is at this point. For its gameplay loop, it pretty much hit the wall faster than what League has hit in its decade long run, a tired gameplay loop (LoL has silent plans and I believe Arena mode is the beginning). This was why the hopes for campaign solo/coop mode for OW2 was hype.
It definitely is dying. Ever since the start of THIS season, my playtime has decreased significantly. I used to play 2-4 hours a night on a daily basis, and even longer on the weekends. Now, I play roughly 30mins a day or even less. I look at the ultimate reward this season pass has to offer and the fking discount beetle mythic skin just turns me off instantaneously.
And Muaga's release is definitely just pouring gasoline into a raging fire.
Edit: I used to game with 6 irl friends regularly, 5 of them have quit shortly after PVE was canceled. The last friend only logs on to check shops. I'm deciding to quit permanently if next season is just as disappointing.
17:20 That’s why they usually have Firing Ranges/Training Rooms in order for you to mess around with the characters and figure out who you like playing.
No offence Flats, but I can’t think of any person who would look at a large roster of characters with around 2/3rds of them inaccessible to the player and think: “Man, I’m sure glad my character choices are so limited right now! 😊” Considering that the first hero I ever played in Overwatch 1 (Zen) and my main hero (Junkrat) would both be locked until I had to grind the necessary amount of challenges just to play them if I was new, it would definitely deter me if I was a newbie. It’d be like if you went to a restaurant that boasted over 100 different types of burgers available but you can only order from a limited menu of 8 and spend $200 total over your visits before you get the ‘privilege’ to order from the full menu.
Paladins is at 59 Heroes... I regularly play like, 16 of them, and I love trying to mess around with new characters. Yeah, they have characters behind paywalls too. They also let you buy them with the game’s non-premium currency, as well as actually *give* you enough free premium currency to get every 2nd Battlepass.
Overwatch’s coins require you to grind out 11 challenges just to get a mere 60 each week. Sign into Paladins a full week to get 50 Crystals. Overwatch’s BP is 1000 Coins while Paladin’s BP is 400 Crystals. Both of them clearly want you to spend money, but with Paladins it feels like more of a choice than an obligation with Overwatch.
The point of the video is show that many features of OW 1 had a worst version of it in OW 2, and this is a huge red flag for players, I understand that not all the changes are bad, is just by comparison leaves a bad impression, for example knowing that not all heroes are avaliable at any moment, in OW 1 they are avaliable so knowing that they aren't anymore leaves a bad feeling of "before I have all of them, now I'm not?"
when people talk about steam charts and twitch viewers people seen to completely ignore the fact that consoles and youtube exist and there is people watching/playing on those at the same time
I know so many people that were outside of the community that purchased the Watchpoint bundle thinking they had to just to play. I don't know why but almost everyone I know that did it thought that's how they would get "the full game."
Greedy Blizzard know how to scam
@@muysli.y1855 it was indeed scummy. I feel like the consistently bait people for money. Not just in OW but across all their properties. It's not the Blizzard I grew up loving
Me and my friend played comp yesterday.
My friend is silver 4.
I am Gold 2.
Me and him both went 5-1 in ranked.
I ranked up to Gold 1, and he stayed in Silver 4.
I love competitive
maybe you carried and he underperformed
I did get 51 kills with genii+cassidy
Literally doesnt matter. Only wins matter for ranking. @@tableprinterdoor
I played only quick play before and decided to play ranked this season. In dps 5-5 and got placed und plat 4 and support 5-6 I got placed plat 2. for myself I thought I was that level already because I can play any hero if needed and have game sense and aim. But how the fuck does the ranking work in this game. I never played ranked because I didn’t care
I just want the devs to be better at communicating through their support system. Like I’ve contacted and sent in multiple appeals for my account, but they refuse to bolster.
For context, I was banned supposedly for cheating even though I never abused any cheat. But the devs don’t get that and have continued to uphold my ban and gatekeep me from my account dating back to 2016. 💀
13 Min video --> 28 min video. Only Flats can do something like this.
*I'll do 1 pushup for every like this comment gets* 😢😊
Not again
I'll eat 1 Ford F150 for every like their comment doesn't get
This should be easy 23 can be done in a single set
@@akapanda5962fr I hope he sticks to it! exercise is hella vital
Proof or fake
I think he made valid points.
I do not see any of my old Overwatch friends play Overwatch 2, even though each could. Personally I do not find a monetized game like OW2 attractive. With the lack of PvE it is dead for me. Blizzard could have kept me as a player if they had kept the OW1 model - they lost me by switching to the model "everybody uses".
For Overwatch to grow its success and popularity, Blizzard needed to make it a huge brand. Multiple, separate games, animated shorts, maybe even a movie or series. They were on track to do just that, but somebody (Bobby Kotick) knew his time was ticking down and wanted short term profits. That's why everything got canned for an excessive focus on PvP and microtransactions in an environment where the most prominent way people enjoy League of Legends is on Netflix.
If anyone here has ever played RoboCraft back around 2017 and was in the scene, then you know exactly how a fun game and a vibrant community dies due to over monetization and lack of care from the company. The developers 101% care about Overwatch, its just sad to see that the executives didn't realize they already had gold.
„Every character got some kind of rework” Bro, what? More like 3 characters tops.
Literally only Orisa, Bastion, Cassidy, and Doomfist.
Of course flats isnt gonna say its dying. Overwwatch is like 80% of his streamer identity.
I don't like how only a few heroes in each role are viable each season and how i usually end up having to play some variation of a hitscan whenever i play dps. If they introduce new heroes with cool playstyles (that arent just another hitscan with some weird gimmick) i feel like this game could be better
And then enemies will pick phara or widow on a long ass map
Overwatch is dying? This is news to me. Seems like Mr. Video Essay wanted a flashy topic and didn't bother to look into the figures
I'm not sure, i guess the game is currently rather stable. But on the other hand during an evening or night of gaming i do find the same persons rather often in my matches. I was kinda sad with them abandoning PvE the way they promised it, but I still enjoy the game itself. It has been and is a big part of my life. Hours of fun and actually at times found some pretty nice people to play with.
Currently eagerly awaiting the Competitive-Rework which sounds promising, to get back into ranked. I really wanna go and see where I can actually get to since imo I improved a lot.
Game's certainly not dying despite the higher ups in Blizzard trying their best to make it happen. x)
5:52 This is the sound of a man who suffered at the hands of Brigitte.
I would like to comment my own experience with the prevalence of this game. 5 years ago this game was still very popular and played very often by kids my age. Nowadays not a single friend or anyone I know plays it. The E-sports Overwatch team at my HS disbanded. This game is dead at my school.
Really love the persona chill music. Really keeps the mood light in what could be taken as a negative video. I agree that from the outside the game doesn’t look too great but it’s sustainable and one can only hope things improve at Blizzard soon
To me. Some of the things you are saying aren't truely just sounds like stuff you have accepted even though there is an underlying issue
I will always believe that if any team shooter wants to be fun it has to do what tf2 did to balance things.
Not everything needs to be overscaled or hell, just difficult to balance, when you can have more people in a match.
When I play 5v5 hero shooters the general feeling is that it's so few people and so much they want to do with their flashy and fun mechanics that there will always be a conflict of interest.
Always will it want to make you feel important but at the same time with only 5v5 it's not achievable that this will happen, which can build overtime into feeling like you have such cool things and end in feeling like having nothing to do with it.
A good team shooter in my eyes, is like 8v8, 10v10, 12v12, 16v16, or somewhere in that ballpark, and doesn't force in things like definitive classes, instead having you customize your character or kit to maximize your enjoyment of the game. Enough players that you can still be impactful but not so few that getting a single kill immediately means a win is always a welcome addition that just adds more dopamine to the brain soup that is video games while still letting it taste like the old flavour.
That's a good view, it feels true for ow but I don't think it's true for a game like pvzgw2 cuz you can have up to16 players in some moods and very choosing "too much defensive/offensive characters will ruin he game experience imo)
I am putting all my hopes towards the Microsoft acquisition. I don't expect immediate change buta great year with lots of improvements at seasons 10 and 11
We won’t see the effects until 2025 or later.
@@folabi7218 Yeah, it'll be a while if Microsoft even ends up changing things with this game. Whenever they announce "long-term" goals it takes 3-6 seasons to actually push out, and there's even longer of a time where the ideas are cooking in the oven before announcement.
Man, PVE was gonna be the shift to a whole new game. I was ready to stop grinding comp. I wanted to play that so bad, and enjoy the OW story. What a joke.
Game just feels way to soulless now, with the transition to 5v5 we lost lots of depth, strategy and teamplay.
Sure everyone always loves to bring up 2x Shield, but do you really think that would be so hard to fix? Would have been easier than going 5v5, reworking 8+ Heroes and having a giant Counterswapp issue thats for sure. Even just reworking Orisa, or making it so that if you have 2 Shield tanks on your team they lose 30% of Shield Health could have been small fixes to 2x Shield.
I used to play OW everyday, it was my favourite game, but as soon as the 5v5 beta came out and i played it for like 3 days, my passion for the game just died. I went back to 6v6 while the 5v5 beta was up and it was really depressing to know that the superior version of OW wont exist anymore.
Majority of people do not share the sentiment. 5v5 is better
Also pressing E on charging Reinhardt was not a very strategic gameplay. Nor Dva and Winston diving Ana. In fact 2022 5v5 Ovewatch League was as strategic as Goats, while not being stale
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Thats why even flats who defended 5v5 at first said on stream he thinks he is becoming a 6v6er
@@nurikkulanbaev3628 Im sure pressing "H" and swapping to a Hero to make another hero completly useless by counterswapping them is peak strategy and makes for a game with a lot of depth, yeah man
I think the fear of 2x shields has been greatly exaggerated in the context of Overwatch 2. Orisa lost her shield, Mauga, Ramattra, Doom and Junker Queen can do a decent job countering shields tank-side, Sombra and Sojourn together are good shield stoppers and deterrents.
lootbox > current monitization
'whats $200 in videogames?"
its a couple pixels on a screen Flats, thats what it is
Honestly liked the lootboxes as they were purely cosmetic and didnt contribute to game power. It would be nice if they kept lootboxes for ow1 content but anything ow2 be paid for. That way u get free stuff to encourage player retention and anything new due to the f2p model will be met with more positive behaviour
I'll always maintain that going down to 5v5 was a terrible idea. You can't convince me ✅
It would have worked if the game was remade from scratch TO ACCOUNT FOR one less tank, but it really wasnt. Ball is fighting for his fucking life to stay relevant, orisa has dominated most metas, hog looked good for a bit and then they made a better roadhog named mauga, supports were stupid broken for a while making your 1 tank unkillable, kiriko.... Existed.
The game plays in a 5v5 format but was balanced for 6v6, it was never going to be balanced.
I'll always maintain that doing tank, DPS, support was the real issue. You can't get the right amount of % to play each group.
ur wrong
( disagree means ur wrong²)
Also why can’t the two games just coexists, you can complain about the community splitting but in the end people would play what they want, comp is not good and some prefer ow or 2
@@darcidious99 Absolutely this. From the start, 5v5 was flawed. Case in point: Reinhardt. One less tank, and they never gave him the shield strength to compensate for the increased damage he would be taking.
I would say the first failure that killed OW is Brig and after that Role Que. Im pretty sure the main reasons why OW still has players is because of sunk cost fallacy and the porn.
Yeah, it shouldn’t be dying, and that’s why it’s not. I came back a few months ago and it’s become my favourite game. Yeah there are problems, but the game, at its core, is absolutely amazing
Somewhere deep down the game is good but its buried it in monetization, false promises and bad balancing
Agreed. I personally have never enjoyed the game as much as I have been recently
‘Comp sucks right now.’
“Bored waiting for (next season)”
Came back to see the state of overwatch and it’s safe to say it’s the same shit.
Not sad I uninstalled.
It was great watching your chat react to OG Brig. It just goes to show that OW2 has brought a lot of new people into the game.
"Tf2 is more like 6 years no balance updates"
??? TF2 doesn't need balance updates because the devs aren't trying to justify a endless live service game and just got like 20 maps and a new game mode in the past few months, way more than Overwatch.
The copium is strong with this one.
I actually started getting into OW right before OW2 came out, without knowing anything about the state of the game in terms of development or meta. I played here and there in OW1, but really decided to get into it right before they announced OW2 without knowing what was to come. Needless to say, I actually deleted the game for 6 months after they announced the cancellation of PvE. It was the main reason I bought OW2 founder pack. It felt like a slap in the face. I came back after Illari was added and had lots of fun playing an overtuned character and started watching KarQ, Eskay, and Flats for tips and tricks on how to be a better player. I love and appreciate you guys and I can get most of my player fantasy by watching you guys absolutely roll. So I guess my biggest takeaway from this reaction is that even us relatively “new” players still want to see this game become the best it can. There is so much potential and fun to be had. I will continue to support and listen and spread the word of you content creators bc you guys know this game needs.
Flats has a steady supply of copium direct from blizzard
Okay I kinda understand where flats was coming from by saying too Many options can be overwhelming to a player, but it is still very frustrating when you see somebody on the enemy team playing as the character that you want to play, but it's locked
The amount of copium it takes to say this game isn't dying, when you run like a 15% chance of running into the same people that you just ran into for the last five games....it's a dying game
Monetization, balance issues, devs not listening/making "bad" decisions, 5v5, rank inflation, OWL dead.
Let's see if there are any other criticisms are brought up in the vid, those are my guesses before I actually watch.
i am one min into this video and the amount of cope flats is spouting is astounding
edit: the fact that a game like overwatch isnt growing basically shows how people regard it. all you have is the hardcore players chilling in game while the rest of the gaming community has sworn it off. it can stay sustained like this for a very long time but for a game with this much potential that means its basically dead.
crazy thing about those long ques at the beginning of ow2 is that the longest que ive ever had was 2 mins at max. never had to swap to asia then na
The game may not be dead but it’s a husk of what it once was.
A lot of the fun has gone and in its place are pain points like bad monetization and poor balance.
It was never looked at strongly in the gaming community but now it’s just looked down on and you get shit on for liking it.
We can huff all the cope we want that the game isn’t dead but it’s f2p model and overpriced shop prices are the only thing keeping it going. It’s just a beaten horse they keep rolling out there for us to beat more.
My final thing is I hate how this guy thinks “drops” is content or something the majority of the community cares about. The drops suck and are also a joke. It’s just a way to keep their small creators supported and from jumping ship to another game. Only the small percent and whales sit around all day for a recolored skin and a spray they’ll never use.
The games damaged reputation will never get better under the current monetization/balance model.
Overwatch has the same problem with apex. The devs are doing good job and effort in the game. But not in what players want.