I'm so glad we have people like Spilo in the community. People who can provide nuanced takes backed by facts and varied opinions, and won't just blindly yell that 6v6 is perfect or dogwater. It's rare to see, and even rarer in Overwatch.
He the most honest imo which is awesome. 6V6 will bring back the fun chaos BUT we are goig to need several patches to get it right because a number of tank combos WILL be broken af
Absolutely, Spilo is great to hear from someone learned while playing devils advocate for 5v5 to actually force 6v6ers to think. I personally like Relf the most (I think he's the only one able to actually push against Spilo's 5v5 arguments [like in 28:15 , Relf accurately pushes against the idea that tank busters are worse in 6v6]) but Spilo forces the discussion from both sides as a sort of mediator.
@@FlightX101 IMO there's more work to be done with the current tanks like Dva & Zarya to make them healthy in 5v5 than there will be to make all the current tanks better in 6v6, especially because they already have their old baselines. Like defense matrix is just awful design for 5v5, but in 6v6 it works great. Mauga will definitely be the hardest to make good in 6v6, though he's already awful in 5v5 so we'll see.
@@FlightX101 why do you think they'd be broken lmao I feel like most of the new tanks have no interesting abilities or no synergy with other tanks nowadays
The stats being that most of the playerbase is probably leaving to play a better game. But hey that'll give them data that "6v6 clearly didn't work so we're not going through with that". Remember, they HAD abilities already developed and we know this since they were added to events later that were showcased in PVE trailers, but the PvE experience they gave us was glorified archives with no customization whatsoever. Sabotaging a project just so they can cancel development is something we've already seen before. And no you cannot convince me "plans change" for this, there was 0 reason to not put the abilities they had already made into the PVE apart from ensuring that we wouldn't buy what they gave us, and that gave the higher ups the sign that we weren't interested anymore.
@@styregt2006 I Mean gameplay wise its fine enough, the balance team is off their fucking rocker but apart from.that its still overwatch. Its just that literally every other element about ow2 sucks absolute mega dick
@@darcidious99you sound completely uninformed to the massive layoffs and overall disorder blizzard was in with their whole team changing. Pve would’ve done literally nothing for the game cause it has zero replay value. Which is why those abilities were better used in a pvp mode from the start. And look here. Junkenstein is the most popular mode outside of ranked and comp they’ve ever released?? Even maintaining a player base weeks later. If you’re so toxic that you don’t like overwatch rivals will suffer from the same toxic player base overwatch has.
I mean. If you really wanted the game to be good you’d play the 6v6 test and support a version of the game that you want the devs to stick with long term. Marvel rivals ain’t stopping that
I was a tank main in OW1 and the swap to OW2 was fun at first but quickly became unenjoyable for me. I was one of the few that genuinely considered tank my favorite role and part of that reason was playing with a friend who also liked to tank. Tank gained so much responsibility when it became a solo role that it was honestly stressful to play. When you lose, you just feel like you're doing nothing and really screwing your team. When you're winning it just feels stressful. It feels like if I make a mistake this will all come crumbling down and I have no one to rely on because everyone is relying on me. I hope I can duo with a tank again. It made tank so much more fun.
Yeah and this also drives away other people who are interested in playing tank, I really want to get into dva rein and Winston but I feel like I don't even want to try them on quickplay cause I feel like everyone will flame me when I do bad which is inescapable when trying out new heroes
Yeah I feel the exact same with tank. I love the large health pool playstyle! But it's so hard to have fun when I'm playing a role that almost guarantees to get flamed for every loss. It's a toxicity thing that kills the role for me unfortunately
The problem with old OW was not the 6v6 format, all the 5v5 format change promised was 'change'. Stagnation is what the problem with 6v6 and Blizzard abandoning releasing content. Switching to 5v5 format was just a big way to say 'hey look, its different!'
@Txkxi you never played double shield or goats for a literal year. We had two back to back braindead metas for like 3 years, mauga was a refreshing look at the game even if it was terrible
Sorry for causing your functioning alcoholism… I just like to play Physics Simulator: Doomfist Edition, it’s the only way I can have fun. I try not to hard focus any one for too long but if you’re a Mercy… be prepared for me to send you off the map and watch you slowly die, you might get lucky if I “forget” you’re there and I let you get away 🫡 Again sorry for being the cause of your functioning alcoholism
I Dont care if 6v6 has 1000 problems or anything I want 6v6 back because I only played the game with a stack of friends, Overwatch 2 getting rid of my duo tank friend split the friend group and most of us went our separate ways. The problem of opening the game you and your friends would play on a saturday night and having to decide who would be left out was and is a grueling task.
Shits crazy to think about honestly. Because of this I don’t be playing overwatch with friends sometimes when I only wanna play tank and someone else is.
28:01 I've always believed that Ram has been the best designed tank for the 5v5 format. He's dynamic, strong, rarely overturned, and fits the anti-shield niche without being a walking deluge of damage.
I’d argue that description makes him more suited for 6v6 because him and Mauga could play an off angle, bad positioning punisher tank. He could afford to be weak without being useless in such a format
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738well the whole gimmick with Ram is, coming from a Ram player, that one alternates shield and nemesis block. You push them back with nemesis, then you poke them with shield and staff. However with two tanks they could way more easily rush you instead of being bothered by the poke. Of course this isn't taking into account a second tank, but what that means is that for as long as those cooldowns are, the second tank has to do all the work until you get nemesis back up since brawly gameplay will be more frequent. He isn't very 6v6 oriented at all, though I'm sure that could easily be changed with stat changes or maybe a very light rework.
@@pyrokrypt3674 I’m saying that the play style would change and he wouldn’t be required to play frontline. Like Hog. You described the weakness of Roadhog. In 6v6, he could just play the flanking tank that gets an early pick. But in 5v5, he has to play in the frontline. You’re thinking about it the way you should in 5v5. But that could be rethought in 6v6. You could use the weaker poking form to off angle and push on squishes trying to flank or take off angles with nemesis form too.
i honestly believe spilo only thoought that Ram felt awful cause of the changes bliz made where he cant pierce shields which is the one thing he does really well and taking it away just made him mid
I've been playing 6v6 on the community patch with friends every Friday, with ranks ranging from silver to masters. A few things we've noticed: 1. Most fights have trades - as opposed to OW2 where most fights are a blowout as soon as one tank falls over. This feels much more engaging and less of a hopeless grind, and also means dying just doesn't feel nearly as bad. Oddly enough it also means having one underperforming teamate feels like less of a burden. Every game feels winnable, and we've had a lot of close overtimes. 2. There are more big moments, especially earthshatters, because things actually die. The suzu nerf especially feels fantastic, because it still counters abilities but not ultimates. 3. Individual impact potential is way higher because you CAN actually solo kill with most heroes, but strangely enough one great player still feels less oppressive because they're ALSO vulnerable and the trades mentioned above mean you can often win a fight missing a player or two. Teamwork is still MORE impactful, but you don't feel like a wet noodle when it's not perfect. 4. Flanking is more prevalent because you don't have to constantly contribute to the math war around your tank AND it's possible to win a 1v2. 5. Stats are way higher. I've had two 80 elimination games, and 20k damage is common. 6. Abusing stats is gone. A Doom couldn't brawl well without a Zarya, but still worked great with dive (one of many restored hero identities), and the only player who hated the format played Venture (she's actually punishable). 7. Overall, focusing a tank is both more feasible and a lot less mandatory, restoring a more complicated and varied ebb and flow to teamfights.
No dude. Overwatch 1 had the worst development team ever. It took 26 patches to adequately nerf Brigette. The devs ruined the games themselves & forced themselves into a position where they felt the need to rebrand Overwatch into its second iteration. How is saying the truth of the matter ruining the game when it was already fucking trash when they canned it. The october 2020 patch was the only gleam of hope within such a turbulent time. 6>5. I understand one less person on the field technically means more impact but in regards to the cyclical nature of team fights like space management and ult management is lost in the sauce as the tank warps the game around them.
hey flats/editor or who ever reads the comments on these. personally id really like the chat box on the right to not block so much and imo a good way to do this is what dark viper au does where the letters are very bold with black outlines with no black box behind it. theres quite a few times in all of these react videos where either the cam blocks something or the chat does. and while the cam blocking something unavoidable the amount of screen space it takes up overall is quite small but the chat is atleast 20% of the screen.
@@teakwondoughnut its not the reaction covering it, its the entire chat box. but i did also watch the original as should everyone 1st before watching a reaction im firmly against all reaction content but atleast flats asks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: To fix queue times, means we have to make more interesting tanks and supports and we have to neglect making DPS heros for a while. Bring in characters that were cut like the Spider-Tank in the concept art for example or bring in support characters that do more than just buff. Shift some DPS characters to other roles like Sombra and have her hacking reduce damage output on other targets or use her mirrorwatch setup. There is a lot of direction you can go with, but with the bloated amount of DPS it's really difficult.
Sombra changes are turn ult charge from health packs back on, change virus to antivirus (skill shot heal and damage reduction). Let Sombra keep her current damage/passive too so she is an aggressive Support like Moira, can heal but can get equal value out of flanking.
I genuinely believe why tank felt bad in OW1 is because they kept trying to make characters like Hog into a non niche pick and completely ignored Rein/DVa/Winston. And we have 4 new supports. Edit: I forgot to add that Sigma was EXTREMELY overtuned in OW1. You could legit remove grasp or rock and he would be still a top tank pick in OW1.
I don't think any play test that only lasts a week will show accurate queue times if it was a perm mode. People will be hyped to try all variations of the new game when testing but if that stayed in the game longer then people will eventually settle into the niche they prefer and be less willing to swap and that is where the queues get mismatched.
Blizzard is too stupid to realize that que times is directly tied to how healthy the game is. Yes both ends of the ranked ladder will have higher que time because of less people and the game trying to fit a wide range of people together in one match, but the majority of players will have lower quetime.
@@ReivecS ah yes some trash who doesnt know how the game works, as you just said "if they aligned just right" as that would happen more often in a healthy game with a huge population. Take league or csgo as an example there are instant que times if you 5 stack or solo que, anything between that are a couple of minutes at most in the average ranks.
@@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798 Your math teachers have failed you greatly. Also not surprised to see the massive projection here, it is the domain of the fool.
the reason 6v6 was good for tank is that tanks aren't the ones FULLY responsible as tanks. being a tank just has you getting roasted, insulted, and such even in quick play but 6v6 makes the responsibility more spread out (also we could just have both 5v5 and 6v6. it doesn't need to be either or) but I feel like some balance changes would be required maybe revert tank passives or tweak it. also I feel like characters like mauga and ram needing certain combos is GREAT people have complained about mauga so him having something to keep him under control again would be good! and ram having off windows would work well with someone like rein since he can do damage while he keeps the team safe with barriers and slow. and then when he runs back out with punch rein can shield them on defense then they cycle through that.
I really want to get into playing tank cause heroes like dva rein and monkey are very fun but there's so much pressure on you to perform well since you're the only tank and if you die your team dies that I just didn't want to play tank due to the anxiety, even in quickplay, support and dps feel almost relaxing as you can just lay back and do whatever and it won't even matter if you don't do that well
Also I don't think 6v6 and 5v5 can Co exist, this will affect the queue times, separate the community more and be a balancing hell for the devs. Even if they balance heroes differently across 5v5 and 6v6 then players will have a harder time since they'll have to learn each hero twice over and the people playing one hero in one gamemode wouldn't play the same hero in the other gamemode leading to even more separation between the community. Also the new player experience would get even more confusing which isn't what the game needs
I mean, I loved Orisa from overwatch 1. Speaking as someone who loves environmental kills, which are much, much, much easier to get as current Orisa. I just remember being on Rialto, there is this Rein on the top left high ground, with 3 of their friends behind him and the shield. I break the shield, while timing a halt, and pulling 3 of the 4 of them into the pit. It was fucking GLORIOUS. Now? DERRRRRRRRRRR RUN AT THEM DERRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I miss 6v6 because my wife and I were both tank mains. She always played Orisa and I always played Ball. She’d pressure from the front and I’d pressure from behind and split their team. Then, when the other team would counter swap, I would guard the support until they’d focus too much on my wife, then I’d strafe and tick them off again. Fun times.
9:20 Remember when Overwatch 2 launched and a bunch of people, mainly DPS players, complained that "it's the exact same game"? Like yeah dude, if you're a Junkrat OTP who treats Overwatch like it's a single-player experience, then it probably feels the same to you, only now you have fewer teammates to completely ignore until you lose and need to someone to blame.
It’s funny because they ruined this game by making it 5v5 JUST so they could avoid people calling it the same game. And they STILL DO. So it was pointless.
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 fr, support had to watch snipers and flankers more than ever and give up on cycling with tank duos, tank role got completely blown the fuck up, and brand new f2ps and metal rank solo dps have actually zero idea how it used to be. And SO many of the best and biggest player bailed between moth then goats metas and the launch of OW2 that we don't even know how much of the community was left by then, nvm how its warped since.
One of the most fun things on ow1 was strategy. I remember everyone would make a plan to teleport off to the side or set up the bastion with a rein. Now it’s just everyone is on their own shit
see, the reason why myself and friends want 6v6 back is because we feel like it'll help properly balance certain heroes AND give back the second tank and make tank a more fun role to play again. myself and friends typically only play role queue qp, we're not looking at it from a competitive standpoint since theyre completely different climates, but its still a struggle to get any one of us to actually WANT to play tank since one of us would be doing it all alone where as if we have two DPS, they can work together, if we have two supports they can save one another if everyone else is distracted. having a solo tank just makes it harder to a tank to be versatile, especially with the main way of playing right now is just for tanks to walk past each other to go after squishies.
12:02 Queue time argument is why I'm very excited for these Open Queue Min 1 Max 2-3 tests they'll be running for both 5v5 and 6v6 way more than any Role Queue experiment. Gives way for lots of variety in team compositions (including the long-forgotten multi-tank setups) while retaining SOME semblance of team cohesion with that one-per-role minimum AND keeps queue times low.
The problem with it though is that it will send us back to the regular open queue problem: 5/6 dps mains get matched together and nobody wants to tank/support. So you get an instalock hog and a dps moira
@@Shrimp4Gura I don't know... the game and playerbase is old/experienced enough now, and both Tank and Support roles have far more appealing options even if some players feel "forced" to flex into those roles. Mauga/Orisa/Hog/JQ/Zarya are still great "DPS" Tanks, and Support's gotten more aggressive character designs since OW1 in new Zen(Kick passive was added in OW2)/Illari/Kiri/Moira/Juno! It would be harder now to not find at least a couple appealing characters in each role imo.
@Shrimp4Gura the way min 1 max 3 will work ( I assume) is that people will pick roles ahead of time (role queue) and teams will be matched same on both sides (ex. Both teams would have 1 tank 3 dps 2 support(the most likely pairing) or 2 tanks 1 dps 3 supports etc etc)
@@Shrimp4Gura Counterpoint, I feel like tank mains would be more willing to play tank again in this mode. My friends and I are excited for the mode due to the fact we are all tank mains. I'm excited because I'll be able to actually play anything other than DPS and support (One friend only plays tank while the other has been a Dva one trick since OW1). Only time we have played tank in months was in the Lab.
I think Spilo nailed it. I can respect those who disagree, but he sums up why I'm pro 6v6 with just this: in 6v6, the tanks are space heroes, DPS are mechanics heroes, supports are positioning heroes, and swaps are about the right hero for the map/comp. In 5v5, everyone is a mechanics/damage hero, and swaps are about 1-to-1 hero counters. That's not the game I want to play, and the same-ness really gets to me. Yes, there are tradeoffs, but hey, even in 5v5 you'll probably still lose if you have a Moira buttchugging in the corner, so it's not like the individual agency makes it so your teammates can't screw you over.
Flanking as a Junkrat when they have 2 tanks is very nice, I've found, at least in the current QP Hacked mode. Sure it's not 6v6, but Junkrat can get around tanks taking up space, and he can deal huge chunks of damage to them when they do engage.
As some people have already said, the queue time issue is a problem of hero design and role focus. Put some effort into tank and people WILL queue it. It's already happened before with support in OW2. Make the role fun and people will queue it.
Tank in literally every single role based game has always been the least popular role. It's an inherently unpopular role no matter how you design the characters.
@@Gabe7Gal No? You could argue that the same applies to support characters, and yet as I said in my original comment, with a renewed focus on the support role the OW2 devs made it much more popular. You're right in that it will always be less popular than dps, but I never argued that it wouldn't be. I'm arguing that it can be more popular than it currently is, likely to the point of queue times no longer being held back by the bottleneck of tank-dps-sup player ratio.
@analyticHeart the tank role has already been reworked in a similar way as supports were. There's nothing else that can be done without changing the game at a fundamental level. If you still think that tanks can become significantly more popular, then you need to give a suggestion for how to accomplish that.
@@Gabe7Gal What? There's no way your serious. What """""reworks""""" has the tank role gotten to make it more popular? The answer is none(5v5 wasn't done to make tank more popular, nor did it, and you'd have one helluva journey to try and say anything else was a "rework"). Has the dev team stated or shown through their recent hero releases a renewed focus on making fun and dynamic tanks? The answer is, once again, no. If anything, I'd say they've done the opposite recently. Ramattra, Mauga, Hazard? Hero kits that are either one dimensional for the worse(see: Ram, Mauga) or kits that are so generalized that they don't add anything new playstyle or fantasy wise to the tank roster(Hazard). Anyone can have fun playing tank(and I mean ANYONE), as long as they find a hero kit that they personally click with. I'm a tank player, and yet I don't play it in marvel rivals, simply because there isn't a character in the role yet that I enjoy. I truly believe queue times and role ratio are fixable problems, with a rather easy solution. Make ALL the roles fun. Don't just focus your efforts on making fun dps characters because it's easy or popular, take the time and energy to extend those creative character ideas to the other roles and MAKE people play them. That's what happened with support after all(in combination with a rework to the general support playstyle)
39:27 this flaw sadly is a never ending loop. You can’t have both good que times and good quality matches. You have to choose between one or the other. It’s a lose lose either way
31:46 Yeah, this is how I want to play support. I genuinely do wanna turn my brain off and heal, it’s been fun for me to not have to go the extra mile and fight. That’s why I personally loved Mercy and Lifeweaver. Their job for the most part was just healing and supporting their team. I know for a fact that’s probably why I got hard stuck Plat, I never wanted to have to switch off my favorite characters in order to climb.
15:37 ways to make solo potential in certain circumstances is actually pretty easy to do. So you focus on team play and then your team can open up certain opportunities to capitalize on that team play. They already talked about buffs instead of healthpacks. What if we had buffs AND cap points on certain maps/game modes. Isn’t this whole game about various game types? Why not include miniature or micro points where dps can push up and hold a defense while their team pushes objective and then the dps or anyone capping can get a short buff that lets them keep momentum, perhaps requiring a certain number of kills or capture time or even capture the flag objective pickups that enemy teams can cap near their spawns for buffs to help their own push back. This just adds more opportunity and objective based teamwork required to win those closer games where each team has a really good matchup.
as a tank main both from OW1 and OW2 i honestly dont think the que times are going to be that bad anymore. Back in ow1 days the game was locked behind a paywall making the general playerbase a LOT smaller than it is nowadays, i actually find my que times are longer now if i play during peak hours because there is SO many more new players that are maining tank/support instead of the old divide of 1/3/1 of the old playerbase
For 6v6, my personal thought on Ramattra is that he would need a slight rework. Now, his whole thing is being a "tempo" tank where both his Omnic and Nemesis form are impactful, one for poke and one for brawl/rush. The issues mentioned by Spilo is that once Nemesis was done, he had a long period of uselessness due to cooldowns. My first thought is that maybe they make it so that Ramattra can switch to Nemesis form indefinitely, but has a cooldown to return to Omnic form just like Omnic form has a cooldown for Nemesis. Additionally, to improve his actual utility for the team as well as his Omnic form so it's actually useful, simply increase the duration of his shield and vortex, maybe do a slight cooldown tweak or two, and hell maybe give him a slight dmg buff on his staff. That or give his staff some kind of minor slowing effect if you'd rather him not do more dmg. That would be a pretty interesting ability to make him and his vortex mechanic stand out more.
We have a patient who can’t walk due to a large amount of pain in one knee. So the solution we’ve come up with is to hack off one leg and let him hop. He is basically running again and we are providing constant checkups and medication now. This is how OW1 to OW2 feels.
@megamecha100 you carry on support by doing as the name says. You're not outfit healer, nor are you damage. You use the kit to provide a higher chance of turning a duel into W
@@megamecha100no they honestly didn’t supports never needed to worry about anything because of the second tank so support never had to worry about actually doing anything aside from occasionally doing something to the enemy’s to disrupt them. Which is why when we shifted to ow2 support players complained all the time because they actually had to position better pay attention and actively play instead of being purely reactionary members of the team. The support players couldn’t adapt to having to be proactive in the game and they started power creeping them slowly to the point it was unfixable
I will put all my competitive times into 6v6 But if blizz just says "Stats showed 6v6 sucks we will be 5v5 forever" I'm going for Marvels Surely there'll be a lot of players having the same thought as mine.
I seriously don't get why people said it was a bad thing to have big long fights in ow1, that just sounded lazy and stupid like you don't wanna play the game for more than 5 seconds?? lmao
I think that queue times will be better than in Overwatch 1 because there’s more tanks to choose from and the tanks are more fun than before so obviously there will still be a difference but I think it’ll be less than most people think it’ll be
Yeah I mean as long as the boring tanks like sigma and orisa (also hog mauga) aren't meta, then I think the queue times will be fine because people will actually want to play the role; not to mention doom is now a tank and he has a dedicated player base that will actually be able to play him without getting cc'd off the face of the earth
@ in Overwatch 2 I personally don’t think sigma is boring but I understand your point from what the video has said the annoying poorly designed heros are worse in 6v6 and I hope that trend continues
I also think tank is notably less approachable right now, like we have an almost unabimous perception in the community that the role is bad, wouldn't that make a big toll on the queues? I think also we have more players now (they said that the quantity of players isn't important but then why would higher ranked players get awful queues?)
@@probablysteven1325Well the good thing with 6v6 is that Hog mains can afford being niche without their character being useless. That’s the issue with 5v5
This was an interesting listen. I’m neither 6v6 or 5v5, I just want what’s best for Overwatch and it’ll be neat to see how the format continues to change as the game develops.
I used to just be a healer in OW1, that was my role, even before role queue I typically picked healer, but in OW2 it seems to always feel like it's the fault of the role you aren't playing when you lose. If you're a healer, your tank or dps sucks, so you change to a dps, then it's your tank or healers, then you switch to tank, then it's your dps or healers, etc. I know it was this way to an extent in OW1, but introducing OW2 as free to play really mucked things up because of the massive barrier to entry for new players. I've spent a lot more time playing tank and dps since OW2 started, and the role that feels the worst by far is dps. The sustain with the passives from the healers is so high that unless you happen to catch one isolated, you're not going to get anything accomplished, and half the time 1v1 on a healer is a bad idea depending on the matchup. As a healer, I'm not scared of the dps any more in OW2 and I feel like I should be. I've gotten lazy with my positioning because with the amount of options a healer has available if you just buddy up with one other teammate, regardless of who or what they are, you can bail yourself out much easier, and some of the healers are almost as good at dps as most of the dps, PLUS they have more utility. Tank makes or breaks the game though, whichever team has the better tank will win the vast majority of the time, and this is illustrated well by a player leaving. If a dps leaves, still a winnable game, if a healer leaves, still a winnable game, but if your tank leaves, the game is over, exactly 0% chance of winning. It makes it a very not fun game for me when I feel like I have no impact on the outcome. If one bad teammate means we lose no matter how well I play or what I do, that's never going to hold my interest. If I'm going to play roulette, I at least want to play it at a casino where I could possibly make some money at it.
Video lowkey sums up my OW1 to OW2 transition. High(er) elo offtank player in OW1 (3900-4100), I thrived in the teamplay aspect of Overwatch. I could play many tanks to a high level but mastered none. I did well with combos. I did well with contesting angles and creating off-angles either for myself or myself and dps, I did well in supporting my supports, I did well with a lot of the more nuanced plays that comes with being an offtank. Since OW2 shines a light more on solo play, I simply haven't had the same success. I don't have insane mechanics, I don't have game sense to be a main tank, and frankly I don't enjoy the solo (counter)tank experience. I can still perform to a decently high level, but it's just not the same. I don't know what the hell they'll do for q times though.
I think a good compromise in the 6v6 could be to have 1/1/1 locked role and 3 flex players per team. Tank queues shouldn't take a hit, we don't end up in goats again (unless sombra goats or something I guess is possible), but then you can play 2/2/2 or 1/3/2 or whatever. Gives more options for the meta to change and grow with consistent balance updates too.
4:35 and here we see why even to this day Bap lamp is problematic and needs to be reworked. Literally tanks an ENTIRE HANZO ULTIMATE. With just a basic ability, that's such bs I cannot get over how much I despise these crazy OP basic abilities like Bap Lamp, Suzu, and Res. I HATE things that essentially make any sort of play you do invalid because their support pressed E. Drives me insane, and it's one of the main things driving me away from Overwatch.
@@paulsmith9786 It used to be, but it's been nerfed enough to where while still somewhat problematic it's mostly balanced since the character it's on is immobile.
I have a question. Do you remember the emongg clip where the servers crashed from 12 ultimates at once? They would have to get better servers for 16 ults at a time (if both echos use their ults while other ult too), right?
I like Overwatch because of the time play, I don't feel one person should be able to do everything. I know that there are games where one person does well or is shitting on the lobby, but I mostly remember the ones where I don't have a team that works together and my teams flaming each other even though it's all of our faults. We aren't playing together and we get punished for that. That's how Overwatch should be because it's a team based shooter and not cod
Tbh the only time Ive had trouble with one tricks is Doomfists. They'll have the entire enemy team counterswapping them- Like Cassidy, Sombra, Ana, Brig, Hog and they REFUSE to swap. If they don't leave the game immediately, they'll complain about their teammates not swapping to fit their playstyle in end chat. As if your team borderline pocketing your playstyle will prevent the entire damn enemy team countering you lol.
I do like playing a support for the more, direct supporting of healing/buffing/debuffing/saving/lining up kills for people to get, it's fun for me. I play alot of Ana, and most of the time I have as much healing as I have damage, since it doesn't feel like that's enough. And while I don't mind tagging enemies when I have a second where the team isn't out in the open getting gunned down, I do enjoy playing characters that are just pure support and no damage just as much if not more, some times. One of the main reasons I enjoyed Medic in TF2 I had a job "keep the team alive" and didn't have to worry about kills, that's the job of the roles I keep alive and it felt rewarding, every kill that a guy got after I healed them up was something I helped or enabled to happen since it would never have happened if I didn't keep that guy alive. Combine that with the invuln on the right guy and I also was one of the big play makers simply by picking the right uber target and giving them a chance to shine. TL.DR: I hope supports focused mainly on the support aspect get their time in the sun along pseudo dps/supports since I like the play style.
yeah Q times are biggest issue lol. My friends finally convinced me to try overwatch during the last year of OW1. Even QP gave me a 15min queue because there were no other new players to match me against so normally 15 min Q to get rolled in a 5 minute match because i had no idea how to play. Think i played less than 5 games before uninstalling and waited til OW2 to actually play the game.
To be fair, the queue times dropped an insane amount in the final year with the promise of ow2. The last week of ow1 was basically barren. Queues weren't great, don't get me wrong, but the last year was really bad.
I feel like with the queue times, we are ignoring the one difference from ow1 and thats the f2p crowd (me) if theres another tank and/or they are able to balance it in a way that makes tanks fun again like the few times when ow2 first came out, i would actively queue way more tank games. Thats been an echoing sentiment with all of the people i play with and others across the community. like I really enjoyed playing tank especially during the JQ meta and was consistently queuing all Q. The casual f2p crowd is alot more flexible than people think, its just the loud awful ones that ruin it for everyone else and give a bad name.
"Nightmare blunt rotation" ok but Sigma and Bap would be great blunt partners. Moira probably wouldn't even feel the effects, and Brig would probably have the most vanilla reaction possible. Orisa would arrest you for smoking it.
5:30 also Flats to reference training encouragement. If your dog is fucking off and won’t listen to you saying “come” then finally does, why scold them for finally coming and not applaud or commend them to reinforce the correct choice. People make mistakes, but you have to give them the credit when they do shit right or else why are they going to give a shit what you think?
Im willing to bring it back to see if it helps the game overall however there will be problems. I do believe that the problems will be less significant then current overwatch.
Queue times is only an argument for very high ranks. For all the metal ranks and some of the bottom higher ranks it's self defeating. Yes 2 tanks would require twice as many people to queue, however not having to be a solo tank would allow a good bit more people to feel comfortable to queue tank, so some of issue is moot.
I don't understand the "but queue times" argument, most experienced people agree 6v6's main issue was how bad and slow the balancing was which caused the boring tanks to be meta for months. If they just keep the current pressure on balancing that they have at the moment going into 6v6 some seasons where like bastion is meta might make tank queue times bad but most of the time tank queue times probably won't be an issue. Queue times only became an issue near the end of ow1 because the developers didn't release any balance changes to the heroes that were meta defining, before they stopped updating the game tank queue times were lower however they were reasonable and not 20 minutes to find a game on dps.
I've always felt so claustrophobic when theres two poke hitscan keeping everyone from playing, but my tank can't dive them because he has to focus on the enemy's tank. If only there were another...
i wanted to really harp on Flats point at 12:00 in the video about queue times: it is absolutely THE biggest pro for 5v5. if it takes 5+ minutes to play a 5-10 minute game then a lot of people will just go play another game instead of spending 33-50% of their time waiting. I remember playing Monday Night Combat 2's open beta and it was a LOT of fun (was playing with friends, so that helped). but i can remember when it died: when they did an update where queueing with friends made it near impossible to find a match. the game just fucking died. people stopped queueing until it was fixed and then it just became a death spiral of getting harder to find a game, which lead to more people not queueing which lead to longer queue times, etc. etc. if people can't even get into a game then it doesn't even matter how good or bad the game is. people will just stop trying all together to play, which makes the problem even worse. as much as having a second tank would make tanking feel better, if it causes queue times to skyrocket then say goodbye to OW as people will just stop playing.
I just prefer the teamwork vs individual play. It's what made OW special to me. It wasn't just another COD or w/e. Now its just TDM feeling and that isn't OW to me. It's more one dimensional game play vs before when it was more brain oriented.
That's the thing I miss the most about tank. Is being the one who controls the space, and the one to contest. You had an identity. Same with Support you where there to above everything else stay alive and in turn keeping the team alive. And DPS was helping clear space and dealing with the stuff the tank couldnt. Everything honestly now just feels like what health pool do you want for your dps.
a comment on spilos video said it perfectly, if we have to kill orisa, mauga, roadhog and ramattra, so that every other tank and the game in general feels way better, I'm happy with that lol go to 6v6, the only bad thing is ramattra getting sent as well but I have a feeling you could work his skill set into being good
To fix 6v6 queue times I'd move "off tanks" to the dps role, but make only one of them pickable at a time (kind of a sub type of dps). You end up with a hybrid 1-3-2. I think alot of dps players can play off tank, but main tank is it's own beast. This should help with tank balance too since you couldn't play multiple "main tanks" at once.
All I know is playing this game and attempting to have fun lately while 9/10 games I'm either getting facefucked by a raid boss doom, a raid boss wrecking ball or getting sniped by a widow makes feel like I'm smacking my head against a fucking brick wall.
Regarding the argument of *queue times* : The later OW videos of Videogamedunkey mostly had this as the main point: Queue times became too long for him to enjoy the game in general. But then he also had gripes with steamroll matches. And the sweetspot between those two axes (fast/long queue times x steamroll/balanced) had been ignored for too long.
Steamrolls are a player inconsistency problem not a matchmaking problem. Especially in a game like overwatch where 1 or 2 bad decisions can cost you entire fights which lose you entire objectives which lose you the game.
13:40 As it should be in ANY shooter imo. Good movement is fun and being able to outschmove your enemy will ALWAYS feel better than *just* outaiming them. Heck, it's one of 2 things that sustain Titanfall with Project Northstar. The movement is *just that good*.
The issue when it comes to queue times are that they are still god awful in 5v5 (maybe not as bad) in spite of the developers giga buffing tanks to make them people play the role. You end up waiting for 5+ minutes every time for a QP DPS game that is unevenly matched because no one is playing, and even if it was evenly matched the balance of the game is so bad that it's not worth playing at all. So the developers have sacrificed fun for Q times and have nothing to show for it.
I still wish we had gotten clans/guilds. The main issue with 6v6 in terms of gameplay is having to work with randoms. If we had groups that we could trust to play the way we want to, you could actively make your games more good than not
Flanking in 6. Versus 6 was still insane because there were two tanks in front of you. Stopping all your damage. The timing of went to flank wasn't as free as it is now, this actually makes flinking more rewarding in the 6v6 format.
I know most people would disagree and its okay but I had the most fun during that hog zarya meta, dps and all others were forced to focus on their own positioning because people would get punished otherwise was amazing, it promoted individual skill and cancer low skill gap heroes were pushed to the side... good old days of like 2 weeks lol
You can’t have strategy and planning, you should only have to see enemy, kill enemy. 6v6 felt like strategy and teamwork was needed so much more than 5v5. Most of the time.
I love how when flats reacts to something its always 1:2 ratio duration, almost always is very close to being exactly double the duration of the source video, its genuinly crazy
They could fix queue times by lowering the amount of choice players have, like at any given time there are hundreds of custom games going then you have the open queue and all other modes.
In 5v5, lots of DPS don't need the tank to do anything except not throw. Most can secure kills without even having to think, just using good aim. In 6v6, maybe it will swing back towards tanks being able to actually have some impact again
It doesn’t make sense whether it will be 5v5 or 6v6, they need to fix the matchmaking first, this is bullshit because of which I will go to marvel rivals. A losing streak is no fun dude, okay 2-3 matches but not every 4 matches after one win. and even then, for the sake of this one victory, you have to change your character 8 times.
Role queue and draft pick, what's locked in during draft pick is what you play for the entirety of the match. If they do this they will fix so many gripes players have about the game.
Honestly I think low ranks will cry a river with 6v6. The massive amount of flanks that are already way too opportunistic will make them feel like the 6v6 is more like a dice throw, while they still don't understand that their flanks were too aggressive.
After playing the 6v6 code. Tanks were fun, Dps was fun and more heroes felt viable, Support felt boring, you had to heal more and there wasn't enough action as OW2.
Haven’t finished the vid yet, but if we do go back to 6v6, tanks become less survivable. So mauga isn’t as much of a pain and zarya just goes back to 400hp.
![The Great Tank Debate [2024] feat. Flats, Danteh, Bogur & Freedo](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ckPGk9pd6n4/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm so glad we have people like Spilo in the community. People who can provide nuanced takes backed by facts and varied opinions, and won't just blindly yell that 6v6 is perfect or dogwater. It's rare to see, and even rarer in Overwatch.
He the most honest imo which is awesome. 6V6 will bring back the fun chaos BUT we are goig to need several patches to get it right because a number of tank combos WILL be broken af
Absolutely, Spilo is great to hear from someone learned while playing devils advocate for 5v5 to actually force 6v6ers to think. I personally like Relf the most (I think he's the only one able to actually push against Spilo's 5v5 arguments [like in 28:15 , Relf accurately pushes against the idea that tank busters are worse in 6v6]) but Spilo forces the discussion from both sides as a sort of mediator.
Yeah Spilo is my goat ...I'm not really comfortable sharing him with others because he means a lot to me. But it's okay if he’s your goat too!
@@FlightX101 IMO there's more work to be done with the current tanks like Dva & Zarya to make them healthy in 5v5 than there will be to make all the current tanks better in 6v6, especially because they already have their old baselines.
Like defense matrix is just awful design for 5v5, but in 6v6 it works great. Mauga will definitely be the hardest to make good in 6v6, though he's already awful in 5v5 so we'll see.
@@FlightX101 why do you think they'd be broken lmao I feel like most of the new tanks have no interesting abilities or no synergy with other tanks nowadays
They drop 6v6 a few days after marvel rivals comes out. Surely the stats they gather will be accurate.
The stats being that most of the playerbase is probably leaving to play a better game.
But hey that'll give them data that "6v6 clearly didn't work so we're not going through with that". Remember, they HAD abilities already developed and we know this since they were added to events later that were showcased in PVE trailers, but the PvE experience they gave us was glorified archives with no customization whatsoever. Sabotaging a project just so they can cancel development is something we've already seen before.
And no you cannot convince me "plans change" for this, there was 0 reason to not put the abilities they had already made into the PVE apart from ensuring that we wouldn't buy what they gave us, and that gave the higher ups the sign that we weren't interested anymore.
Sometimes I find it funny how Blizzard keeps taking L after L and how there are people who still say "The game is in a good state"
@@styregt2006 I Mean gameplay wise its fine enough, the balance team is off their fucking rocker but apart from.that its still overwatch.
Its just that literally every other element about ow2 sucks absolute mega dick
@@darcidious99you sound completely uninformed to the massive layoffs and overall disorder blizzard was in with their whole team changing.
Pve would’ve done literally nothing for the game cause it has zero replay value. Which is why those abilities were better used in a pvp mode from the start. And look here. Junkenstein is the most popular mode outside of ranked and comp they’ve ever released?? Even maintaining a player base weeks later.
If you’re so toxic that you don’t like overwatch rivals will suffer from the same toxic player base overwatch has.
I mean. If you really wanted the game to be good you’d play the 6v6 test and support a version of the game that you want the devs to stick with long term. Marvel rivals ain’t stopping that
Queue times in original 6v6 were exacerbated by there being twice as many dps as tanks and support COMBINED.
A successful Halt/Hook combo was more satisfying than getting a team kill with a Tank ultimate in OW2
I was a tank main in OW1 and the swap to OW2 was fun at first but quickly became unenjoyable for me. I was one of the few that genuinely considered tank my favorite role and part of that reason was playing with a friend who also liked to tank. Tank gained so much responsibility when it became a solo role that it was honestly stressful to play. When you lose, you just feel like you're doing nothing and really screwing your team. When you're winning it just feels stressful. It feels like if I make a mistake this will all come crumbling down and I have no one to rely on because everyone is relying on me. I hope I can duo with a tank again. It made tank so much more fun.
Yeah and this also drives away other people who are interested in playing tank, I really want to get into dva rein and Winston but I feel like I don't even want to try them on quickplay cause I feel like everyone will flame me when I do bad which is inescapable when trying out new heroes
Yeah I feel the exact same with tank. I love the large health pool playstyle! But it's so hard to have fun when I'm playing a role that almost guarantees to get flamed for every loss. It's a toxicity thing that kills the role for me unfortunately
The problem with old OW was not the 6v6 format, all the 5v5 format change promised was 'change'. Stagnation is what the problem with 6v6 and Blizzard abandoning releasing content. Switching to 5v5 format was just a big way to say 'hey look, its different!'
Except you’re completely leaving out the issue with Que times and how 5v5 cut those in half. So it did more than just mix things up.
@@joshuacollins93165v5 caused mauga meta which I'd argue is just as miserable most metas
@Txkxi you never played double shield or goats for a literal year. We had two back to back braindead metas for like 3 years, mauga was a refreshing look at the game even if it was terrible
@@Txkximauga is kinda trash. He's still meta?
@@Txkxi that has nothing to do with the comment I posted lol both 6v6 and 5v5 have had bad metas.
The only 1 tricks I run into are doom one tricks. They’re also the reason I have a bottle of vodka on my desk
ay you n my sister have something in common! (vodka on desk)
i have a whole drawer in my desk of alcohol bc of this game 😭😭😭
As a Doom 1 trick, I apologize 😔.
Sorry for causing your functioning alcoholism… I just like to play Physics Simulator: Doomfist Edition, it’s the only way I can have fun. I try not to hard focus any one for too long but if you’re a Mercy… be prepared for me to send you off the map and watch you slowly die, you might get lucky if I “forget” you’re there and I let you get away 🫡 Again sorry for being the cause of your functioning alcoholism
💀
I Dont care if 6v6 has 1000 problems or anything I want 6v6 back because I only played the game with a stack of friends, Overwatch 2 getting rid of my duo tank friend split the friend group and most of us went our separate ways. The problem of opening the game you and your friends would play on a saturday night and having to decide who would be left out was and is a grueling task.
this exactly this
Most of my friends are not coming back to Overwatch even if there's 6v6 anyways. Its golden age is over
Shits crazy to think about honestly. Because of this I don’t be playing overwatch with friends sometimes when I only wanna play tank and someone else is.
My dawg know he lying. Having 5 other players whenever you play is not real.
Honestly same. I can't play with my friends anymore because all 5 of them are already in a group so I end up by myself 🥲
28:01 I've always believed that Ram has been the best designed tank for the 5v5 format. He's dynamic, strong, rarely overturned, and fits the anti-shield niche without being a walking deluge of damage.
I’d argue that description makes him more suited for 6v6 because him and Mauga could play an off angle, bad positioning punisher tank. He could afford to be weak without being useless in such a format
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 fr
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738well the whole gimmick with Ram is, coming from a Ram player, that one alternates shield and nemesis block. You push them back with nemesis, then you poke them with shield and staff. However with two tanks they could way more easily rush you instead of being bothered by the poke. Of course this isn't taking into account a second tank, but what that means is that for as long as those cooldowns are, the second tank has to do all the work until you get nemesis back up since brawly gameplay will be more frequent. He isn't very 6v6 oriented at all, though I'm sure that could easily be changed with stat changes or maybe a very light rework.
@@pyrokrypt3674 I’m saying that the play style would change and he wouldn’t be required to play frontline. Like Hog.
You described the weakness of Roadhog. In 6v6, he could just play the flanking tank that gets an early pick. But in 5v5, he has to play in the frontline.
You’re thinking about it the way you should in 5v5. But that could be rethought in 6v6. You could use the weaker poking form to off angle and push on squishes trying to flank or take off angles with nemesis form too.
i honestly believe spilo only thoought that Ram felt awful cause of the changes bliz made where he cant pierce shields which is the one thing he does really well and taking it away just made him mid
I've been playing 6v6 on the community patch with friends every Friday, with ranks ranging from silver to masters. A few things we've noticed:
1. Most fights have trades - as opposed to OW2 where most fights are a blowout as soon as one tank falls over. This feels much more engaging and less of a hopeless grind, and also means dying just doesn't feel nearly as bad. Oddly enough it also means having one underperforming teamate feels like less of a burden. Every game feels winnable, and we've had a lot of close overtimes.
2. There are more big moments, especially earthshatters, because things actually die. The suzu nerf especially feels fantastic, because it still counters abilities but not ultimates.
3. Individual impact potential is way higher because you CAN actually solo kill with most heroes, but strangely enough one great player still feels less oppressive because they're ALSO vulnerable and the trades mentioned above mean you can often win a fight missing a player or two. Teamwork is still MORE impactful, but you don't feel like a wet noodle when it's not perfect.
4. Flanking is more prevalent because you don't have to constantly contribute to the math war around your tank AND it's possible to win a 1v2.
5. Stats are way higher. I've had two 80 elimination games, and 20k damage is common.
6. Abusing stats is gone. A Doom couldn't brawl well without a Zarya, but still worked great with dive (one of many restored hero identities), and the only player who hated the format played Venture (she's actually punishable).
7. Overall, focusing a tank is both more feasible and a lot less mandatory, restoring a more complicated and varied ebb and flow to teamfights.
Is there a way I can play on the community patch? Because I play on console.
@@TheUnseenKrab 7HSKW is the workshop code. As far as I know custom games still work on console.
"Blaa blaa everything is better". Dude, individual impact is higher? Fanboys like you are what kept ruining the game.
No dude. Overwatch 1 had the worst development team ever. It took 26 patches to adequately nerf Brigette. The devs ruined the games themselves & forced themselves into a position where they felt the need to rebrand Overwatch into its second iteration. How is saying the truth of the matter ruining the game when it was already fucking trash when they canned it. The october 2020 patch was the only gleam of hope within such a turbulent time. 6>5. I understand one less person on the field technically means more impact but in regards to the cyclical nature of team fights like space management and ult management is lost in the sauce as the tank warps the game around them.
that sounds more of ow2 of what you're saying
hey flats/editor or who ever reads the comments on these. personally id really like the chat box on the right to not block so much and imo a good way to do this is what dark viper au does where the letters are very bold with black outlines with no black box behind it. theres quite a few times in all of these react videos where either the cam blocks something or the chat does.
and while the cam blocking something unavoidable the amount of screen space it takes up overall is quite small but the chat is atleast 20% of the screen.
He even has a tutorial on how to do it too on his channel.
Yo imma start copy pasting this on all flats vids lol
Hot take. Watch the original creators video if you don’t want the reaction covering it
@@teakwondoughnut for me, Flats is the reaction, and not his chat that covers quite literally 1/3rd of the screen.
@@teakwondoughnut its not the reaction covering it, its the entire chat box. but i did also watch the original as should everyone 1st before watching a reaction
im firmly against all reaction content but atleast flats asks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: To fix queue times, means we have to make more interesting tanks and supports and we have to neglect making DPS heros for a while. Bring in characters that were cut like the Spider-Tank in the concept art for example or bring in support characters that do more than just buff. Shift some DPS characters to other roles like Sombra and have her hacking reduce damage output on other targets or use her mirrorwatch setup. There is a lot of direction you can go with, but with the bloated amount of DPS it's really difficult.
Sombra changes are turn ult charge from health packs back on, change virus to antivirus (skill shot heal and damage reduction). Let Sombra keep her current damage/passive too so she is an aggressive Support like Moira, can heal but can get equal value out of flanking.
bring back dps doom and I would be fine if they didn't add a new dps for 3 whole years
I genuinely believe why tank felt bad in OW1 is because they kept trying to make characters like Hog into a non niche pick and completely ignored Rein/DVa/Winston.
And we have 4 new supports.
Edit: I forgot to add that Sigma was EXTREMELY overtuned in OW1. You could legit remove grasp or rock and he would be still a top tank pick in OW1.
@@aaronolson6736 if they do this you guys are the same people who will complain as to why they did the rework in the first place
I am a dps main and I kinda agree, we need more tanks/supports so more people are willing to play those roles.
I don't think any play test that only lasts a week will show accurate queue times if it was a perm mode. People will be hyped to try all variations of the new game when testing but if that stayed in the game longer then people will eventually settle into the niche they prefer and be less willing to swap and that is where the queues get mismatched.
Blizzard is too stupid to realize that que times is directly tied to how healthy the game is. Yes both ends of the ranked ladder will have higher que time because of less people and the game trying to fit a wide range of people together in one match, but the majority of players will have lower quetime.
@ pretty horrid take if I ever saw one. You could have zero queue times with only 10 people if they aligned just right, but 10 isn’t healthy.
@@ReivecS ah yes some trash who doesnt know how the game works, as you just said "if they aligned just right" as that would happen more often in a healthy game with a huge population. Take league or csgo as an example there are instant que times if you 5 stack or solo que, anything between that are a couple of minutes at most in the average ranks.
@@uberhaxornovanongalaktiksk9798 Your math teachers have failed you greatly. Also not surprised to see the massive projection here, it is the domain of the fool.
the reason 6v6 was good for tank is that tanks aren't the ones FULLY responsible as tanks. being a tank just has you getting roasted, insulted, and such even in quick play but 6v6 makes the responsibility more spread out (also we could just have both 5v5 and 6v6. it doesn't need to be either or) but I feel like some balance changes would be required maybe revert tank passives or tweak it. also I feel like characters like mauga and ram needing certain combos is GREAT people have complained about mauga so him having something to keep him under control again would be good! and ram having off windows would work well with someone like rein since he can do damage while he keeps the team safe with barriers and slow. and then when he runs back out with punch rein can shield them on defense then they cycle through that.
I really want to get into playing tank cause heroes like dva rein and monkey are very fun but there's so much pressure on you to perform well since you're the only tank and if you die your team dies that I just didn't want to play tank due to the anxiety, even in quickplay, support and dps feel almost relaxing as you can just lay back and do whatever and it won't even matter if you don't do that well
Also I don't think 6v6 and 5v5 can Co exist, this will affect the queue times, separate the community more and be a balancing hell for the devs. Even if they balance heroes differently across 5v5 and 6v6 then players will have a harder time since they'll have to learn each hero twice over and the people playing one hero in one gamemode wouldn't play the same hero in the other gamemode leading to even more separation between the community. Also the new player experience would get even more confusing which isn't what the game needs
I mean, I loved Orisa from overwatch 1. Speaking as someone who loves environmental kills, which are much, much, much easier to get as current Orisa. I just remember being on Rialto, there is this Rein on the top left high ground, with 3 of their friends behind him and the shield. I break the shield, while timing a halt, and pulling 3 of the 4 of them into the pit. It was fucking GLORIOUS.
Now? DERRRRRRRRRRR RUN AT THEM DERRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I miss 6v6 because my wife and I were both tank mains. She always played Orisa and I always played Ball. She’d pressure from the front and I’d pressure from behind and split their team. Then, when the other team would counter swap, I would guard the support until they’d focus too much on my wife, then I’d strafe and tick them off again.
Fun times.
9:20 Remember when Overwatch 2 launched and a bunch of people, mainly DPS players, complained that "it's the exact same game"? Like yeah dude, if you're a Junkrat OTP who treats Overwatch like it's a single-player experience, then it probably feels the same to you, only now you have fewer teammates to completely ignore until you lose and need to someone to blame.
Ok but it litterally is just the same game
@calus_bath_water I mean it is the same game lol. I'm not even sure why it's OV2 when there's no way to play OV1 lol
It’s funny because they ruined this game by making it 5v5 JUST so they could avoid people calling it the same game. And they STILL DO. So it was pointless.
The same game isn’t the same game because it’s 5 players please bro I’m not an apologist bro please
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 fr, support had to watch snipers and flankers more than ever and give up on cycling with tank duos, tank role got completely blown the fuck up, and brand new f2ps and metal rank solo dps have actually zero idea how it used to be. And SO many of the best and biggest player bailed between moth then goats metas and the launch of OW2 that we don't even know how much of the community was left by then, nvm how its warped since.
One of the most fun things on ow1 was strategy. I remember everyone would make a plan to teleport off to the side or set up the bastion with a rein. Now it’s just everyone is on their own shit
see, the reason why myself and friends want 6v6 back is because we feel like it'll help properly balance certain heroes AND give back the second tank and make tank a more fun role to play again. myself and friends typically only play role queue qp, we're not looking at it from a competitive standpoint since theyre completely different climates, but its still a struggle to get any one of us to actually WANT to play tank since one of us would be doing it all alone where as if we have two DPS, they can work together, if we have two supports they can save one another if everyone else is distracted. having a solo tank just makes it harder to a tank to be versatile, especially with the main way of playing right now is just for tanks to walk past each other to go after squishies.
I don't need charts, stats, or spin. Bring back 6v6. My bias is ready.
6v6 was boring and shooting shields half the game no
@@CouchPotatoCrusader
Yeah, unlike 5v5, where we never have a bad or toxic meta and nothing ever needs to be fixed or changed...
@@CouchPotatoCrusaderbrain dead widow that doesnt know how to counter picked CONFIRMED smh lol
keep both around
Bring back 2019 Cassidy or rework him more, that's all I need then this high hp fatty with a weird E.
12:02 Queue time argument is why I'm very excited for these Open Queue Min 1 Max 2-3 tests they'll be running for both 5v5 and 6v6 way more than any Role Queue experiment. Gives way for lots of variety in team compositions (including the long-forgotten multi-tank setups) while retaining SOME semblance of team cohesion with that one-per-role minimum AND keeps queue times low.
there won't be any variety, if it's not hard 222 it's a fail. 132 was tried before, it was utter garbage
The problem with it though is that it will send us back to the regular open queue problem: 5/6 dps mains get matched together and nobody wants to tank/support. So you get an instalock hog and a dps moira
@@Shrimp4Gura I don't know... the game and playerbase is old/experienced enough now, and both Tank and Support roles have far more appealing options even if some players feel "forced" to flex into those roles. Mauga/Orisa/Hog/JQ/Zarya are still great "DPS" Tanks, and Support's gotten more aggressive character designs since OW1 in new Zen(Kick passive was added in OW2)/Illari/Kiri/Moira/Juno!
It would be harder now to not find at least a couple appealing characters in each role imo.
@Shrimp4Gura the way min 1 max 3 will work ( I assume) is that people will pick roles ahead of time (role queue) and teams will be matched same on both sides (ex. Both teams would have 1 tank 3 dps 2 support(the most likely pairing) or 2 tanks 1 dps 3 supports etc etc)
@@Shrimp4Gura Counterpoint, I feel like tank mains would be more willing to play tank again in this mode.
My friends and I are excited for the mode due to the fact we are all tank mains. I'm excited because I'll be able to actually play anything other than DPS and support (One friend only plays tank while the other has been a Dva one trick since OW1).
Only time we have played tank in months was in the Lab.
I think Spilo nailed it. I can respect those who disagree, but he sums up why I'm pro 6v6 with just this: in 6v6, the tanks are space heroes, DPS are mechanics heroes, supports are positioning heroes, and swaps are about the right hero for the map/comp. In 5v5, everyone is a mechanics/damage hero, and swaps are about 1-to-1 hero counters. That's not the game I want to play, and the same-ness really gets to me. Yes, there are tradeoffs, but hey, even in 5v5 you'll probably still lose if you have a Moira buttchugging in the corner, so it's not like the individual agency makes it so your teammates can't screw you over.
Flanking as a Junkrat when they have 2 tanks is very nice, I've found, at least in the current QP Hacked mode. Sure it's not 6v6, but Junkrat can get around tanks taking up space, and he can deal huge chunks of damage to them when they do engage.
I need 6v6 back. Old overwatch was some peak gaming when synergies lined up. Overwatch now is just pseudo deathmatch and it feels soulless. Sad
As some people have already said, the queue time issue is a problem of hero design and role focus. Put some effort into tank and people WILL queue it. It's already happened before with support in OW2. Make the role fun and people will queue it.
Tank in literally every single role based game has always been the least popular role. It's an inherently unpopular role no matter how you design the characters.
@@Gabe7Gal No? You could argue that the same applies to support characters, and yet as I said in my original comment, with a renewed focus on the support role the OW2 devs made it much more popular.
You're right in that it will always be less popular than dps, but I never argued that it wouldn't be. I'm arguing that it can be more popular than it currently is, likely to the point of queue times no longer being held back by the bottleneck of tank-dps-sup player ratio.
@analyticHeart the tank role has already been reworked in a similar way as supports were. There's nothing else that can be done without changing the game at a fundamental level. If you still think that tanks can become significantly more popular, then you need to give a suggestion for how to accomplish that.
@@Gabe7Gal What? There's no way your serious. What """""reworks""""" has the tank role gotten to make it more popular? The answer is none(5v5 wasn't done to make tank more popular, nor did it, and you'd have one helluva journey to try and say anything else was a "rework"). Has the dev team stated or shown through their recent hero releases a renewed focus on making fun and dynamic tanks? The answer is, once again, no. If anything, I'd say they've done the opposite recently. Ramattra, Mauga, Hazard? Hero kits that are either one dimensional for the worse(see: Ram, Mauga) or kits that are so generalized that they don't add anything new playstyle or fantasy wise to the tank roster(Hazard).
Anyone can have fun playing tank(and I mean ANYONE), as long as they find a hero kit that they personally click with. I'm a tank player, and yet I don't play it in marvel rivals, simply because there isn't a character in the role yet that I enjoy. I truly believe queue times and role ratio are fixable problems, with a rather easy solution. Make ALL the roles fun. Don't just focus your efforts on making fun dps characters because it's easy or popular, take the time and energy to extend those creative character ideas to the other roles and MAKE people play them. That's what happened with support after all(in combination with a rework to the general support playstyle)
18:50 The background music is Marvel vs. Capcom 2 - Network Theme. Honestly whole soundtrack is so good
39:27 this flaw sadly is a never ending loop. You can’t have both good que times and good quality matches. You have to choose between one or the other. It’s a lose lose either way
31:46 Yeah, this is how I want to play support. I genuinely do wanna turn my brain off and heal, it’s been fun for me to not have to go the extra mile and fight. That’s why I personally loved Mercy and Lifeweaver. Their job for the most part was just healing and supporting their team. I know for a fact that’s probably why I got hard stuck Plat, I never wanted to have to switch off my favorite characters in order to climb.
15:37 ways to make solo potential in certain circumstances is actually pretty easy to do. So you focus on team play and then your team can open up certain opportunities to capitalize on that team play. They already talked about buffs instead of healthpacks. What if we had buffs AND cap points on certain maps/game modes. Isn’t this whole game about various game types? Why not include miniature or micro points where dps can push up and hold a defense while their team pushes objective and then the dps or anyone capping can get a short buff that lets them keep momentum, perhaps requiring a certain number of kills or capture time or even capture the flag objective pickups that enemy teams can cap near their spawns for buffs to help their own push back. This just adds more opportunity and objective based teamwork required to win those closer games where each team has a really good matchup.
as a tank main both from OW1 and OW2 i honestly dont think the que times are going to be that bad anymore. Back in ow1 days the game was locked behind a paywall making the general playerbase a LOT smaller than it is nowadays, i actually find my que times are longer now if i play during peak hours because there is SO many more new players that are maining tank/support instead of the old divide of 1/3/1 of the old playerbase
For 6v6, my personal thought on Ramattra is that he would need a slight rework. Now, his whole thing is being a "tempo" tank where both his Omnic and Nemesis form are impactful, one for poke and one for brawl/rush. The issues mentioned by Spilo is that once Nemesis was done, he had a long period of uselessness due to cooldowns. My first thought is that maybe they make it so that Ramattra can switch to Nemesis form indefinitely, but has a cooldown to return to Omnic form just like Omnic form has a cooldown for Nemesis. Additionally, to improve his actual utility for the team as well as his Omnic form so it's actually useful, simply increase the duration of his shield and vortex, maybe do a slight cooldown tweak or two, and hell maybe give him a slight dmg buff on his staff. That or give his staff some kind of minor slowing effect if you'd rather him not do more dmg. That would be a pretty interesting ability to make him and his vortex mechanic stand out more.
that's an interesting idea. I imagine if they did this they'd also nerf his nemesis form
Spilo has such a good speaking tone.
The Mario Sunshine music fits him perfectly.
We have a patient who can’t walk due to a large amount of pain in one knee. So the solution we’ve come up with is to hack off one leg and let him hop. He is basically running again and we are providing constant checkups and medication now.
This is how OW1 to OW2 feels.
31:50 Yeah. I often wonder what Support would be like if I could spend more time focusing on my team.
It's nice to have that option, I think most ranks of players can choose to try and carry by doing dps on support anyway
it was frustrating to have to act like a mom, but that can be fixed
@megamecha100 you carry on support by doing as the name says. You're not outfit healer, nor are you damage. You use the kit to provide a higher chance of turning a duel into W
@@PerciusLive oh definitely yeah I'm just saying most ranks of players from ow1 were missing the damage pressure part of support to truly carry
@@megamecha100no they honestly didn’t supports never needed to worry about anything because of the second tank so support never had to worry about actually doing anything aside from occasionally doing something to the enemy’s to disrupt them. Which is why when we shifted to ow2 support players complained all the time because they actually had to position better pay attention and actively play instead of being purely reactionary members of the team. The support players couldn’t adapt to having to be proactive in the game and they started power creeping them slowly to the point it was unfixable
that into clip with dbl shield, was from Dafran. The comp was sig, orisa, bastion, hanzo, mercy, bap. Nothing died, and if it did, it was rezzed
What it Ram’s punch-mode didn’t have a cooldown and it was just a second form you could shift into
Would require some changes to block at least tho. Like the damage reduction amount or add a meter to it like vape or dm
@@matteofellin2041 yes it would def need a little tuned down, but maybe it'd work
I think thats a great idea to try tbh, at least in a 6v6 format
I will put all my competitive times into 6v6
But if blizz just says "Stats showed 6v6 sucks we will be 5v5 forever"
I'm going for Marvels
Surely there'll be a lot of players having the same thought as mine.
Some of the most fun I have in OW2 is open Q with 3 tanks and 2 supports. Fights are these long, huge brawls. There’s chaos, alt dominos, 3 min OTs
I seriously don't get why people said it was a bad thing to have big long fights in ow1, that just sounded lazy and stupid like you don't wanna play the game for more than 5 seconds?? lmao
@@bambampewpew32 because double shield bastion was just awfull
@@bambampewpew32 so im lazy and stupid because i wanna spend less time on a video game? aight
@@Real_Kirbo Uh... if you want to spend less time on video games... why are you playing overwatch?
@@Real_Kirbowhy are you even playing if you dont want to play it?
I think that queue times will be better than in Overwatch 1 because there’s more tanks to choose from and the tanks are more fun than before so obviously there will still be a difference but I think it’ll be less than most people think it’ll be
Yeah I mean as long as the boring tanks like sigma and orisa (also hog mauga) aren't meta, then I think the queue times will be fine because people will actually want to play the role; not to mention doom is now a tank and he has a dedicated player base that will actually be able to play him without getting cc'd off the face of the earth
@ in Overwatch 2 I personally don’t think sigma is boring but I understand your point from what the video has said the annoying poorly designed heros are worse in 6v6 and I hope that trend continues
I also think tank is notably less approachable right now, like we have an almost unabimous perception in the community that the role is bad, wouldn't that make a big toll on the queues? I think also we have more players now (they said that the quantity of players isn't important but then why would higher ranked players get awful queues?)
@ also the ratio of tank heros too dps heros is significantly better than ow1
@@probablysteven1325Well the good thing with 6v6 is that Hog mains can afford being niche without their character being useless. That’s the issue with 5v5
This was an interesting listen. I’m neither 6v6 or 5v5, I just want what’s best for Overwatch and it’ll be neat to see how the format continues to change as the game develops.
I used to just be a healer in OW1, that was my role, even before role queue I typically picked healer, but in OW2 it seems to always feel like it's the fault of the role you aren't playing when you lose. If you're a healer, your tank or dps sucks, so you change to a dps, then it's your tank or healers, then you switch to tank, then it's your dps or healers, etc. I know it was this way to an extent in OW1, but introducing OW2 as free to play really mucked things up because of the massive barrier to entry for new players.
I've spent a lot more time playing tank and dps since OW2 started, and the role that feels the worst by far is dps. The sustain with the passives from the healers is so high that unless you happen to catch one isolated, you're not going to get anything accomplished, and half the time 1v1 on a healer is a bad idea depending on the matchup.
As a healer, I'm not scared of the dps any more in OW2 and I feel like I should be. I've gotten lazy with my positioning because with the amount of options a healer has available if you just buddy up with one other teammate, regardless of who or what they are, you can bail yourself out much easier, and some of the healers are almost as good at dps as most of the dps, PLUS they have more utility.
Tank makes or breaks the game though, whichever team has the better tank will win the vast majority of the time, and this is illustrated well by a player leaving. If a dps leaves, still a winnable game, if a healer leaves, still a winnable game, but if your tank leaves, the game is over, exactly 0% chance of winning.
It makes it a very not fun game for me when I feel like I have no impact on the outcome. If one bad teammate means we lose no matter how well I play or what I do, that's never going to hold my interest. If I'm going to play roulette, I at least want to play it at a casino where I could possibly make some money at it.
Video lowkey sums up my OW1 to OW2 transition. High(er) elo offtank player in OW1 (3900-4100), I thrived in the teamplay aspect of Overwatch. I could play many tanks to a high level but mastered none. I did well with combos. I did well with contesting angles and creating off-angles either for myself or myself and dps, I did well in supporting my supports, I did well with a lot of the more nuanced plays that comes with being an offtank. Since OW2 shines a light more on solo play, I simply haven't had the same success. I don't have insane mechanics, I don't have game sense to be a main tank, and frankly I don't enjoy the solo (counter)tank experience. I can still perform to a decently high level, but it's just not the same.
I don't know what the hell they'll do for q times though.
I think a good compromise in the 6v6 could be to have 1/1/1 locked role and 3 flex players per team. Tank queues shouldn't take a hit, we don't end up in goats again (unless sombra goats or something I guess is possible), but then you can play 2/2/2 or 1/3/2 or whatever. Gives more options for the meta to change and grow with consistent balance updates too.
“Schrödinger’s ballsack”😭
4:35 and here we see why even to this day Bap lamp is problematic and needs to be reworked. Literally tanks an ENTIRE HANZO ULTIMATE. With just a basic ability, that's such bs I cannot get over how much I despise these crazy OP basic abilities like Bap Lamp, Suzu, and Res. I HATE things that essentially make any sort of play you do invalid because their support pressed E. Drives me insane, and it's one of the main things driving me away from Overwatch.
Anti-Nade is the most OP support ability by far
@@paulsmith9786 i love rage-bait
meanwhile, shatter guarantees kill/s with now not any way to counter it once hit, jq would be the same if it wasnt for suzu still countering it
@@aegislight5996 Yeah but that's an ultimate, it should be game changing and fight deciding.
@@paulsmith9786 It used to be, but it's been nerfed enough to where while still somewhat problematic it's mostly balanced since the character it's on is immobile.
I have a question. Do you remember the emongg clip where the servers crashed from 12 ultimates at once? They would have to get better servers for 16 ults at a time (if both echos use their ults while other ult too), right?
Im happy to hear someone else misses roadhog's right/left click being different
I like Overwatch because of the time play, I don't feel one person should be able to do everything. I know that there are games where one person does well or is shitting on the lobby, but I mostly remember the ones where I don't have a team that works together and my teams flaming each other even though it's all of our faults. We aren't playing together and we get punished for that. That's how Overwatch should be because it's a team based shooter and not cod
Tbh the only time Ive had trouble with one tricks is Doomfists.
They'll have the entire enemy team counterswapping them- Like Cassidy, Sombra, Ana, Brig, Hog and they REFUSE to swap.
If they don't leave the game immediately, they'll complain about their teammates not swapping to fit their playstyle in end chat. As if your team borderline pocketing your playstyle will prevent the entire damn enemy team countering you lol.
I haven’t experienced 6v6 yet since I never got a chance to play ow1 . Sometimes 5v5 can get hectic but 6v6 should be even more crazy . I’m excited
17:44 kings row 3rd needs more flank routes to bypass that central choke
I do like playing a support for the more, direct supporting of healing/buffing/debuffing/saving/lining up kills for people to get, it's fun for me. I play alot of Ana, and most of the time I have as much healing as I have damage, since it doesn't feel like that's enough. And while I don't mind tagging enemies when I have a second where the team isn't out in the open getting gunned down, I do enjoy playing characters that are just pure support and no damage just as much if not more, some times.
One of the main reasons I enjoyed Medic in TF2 I had a job "keep the team alive" and didn't have to worry about kills, that's the job of the roles I keep alive and it felt rewarding, every kill that a guy got after I healed them up was something I helped or enabled to happen since it would never have happened if I didn't keep that guy alive. Combine that with the invuln on the right guy and I also was one of the big play makers simply by picking the right uber target and giving them a chance to shine.
TL.DR: I hope supports focused mainly on the support aspect get their time in the sun along pseudo dps/supports since I like the play style.
38:00 cultured editor using trails in the sky music
yeah Q times are biggest issue lol. My friends finally convinced me to try overwatch during the last year of OW1. Even QP gave me a 15min queue because there were no other new players to match me against so normally 15 min Q to get rolled in a 5 minute match because i had no idea how to play. Think i played less than 5 games before uninstalling and waited til OW2 to actually play the game.
To be fair, the queue times dropped an insane amount in the final year with the promise of ow2. The last week of ow1 was basically barren. Queues weren't great, don't get me wrong, but the last year was really bad.
I feel like with the queue times, we are ignoring the one difference from ow1 and thats the f2p crowd (me) if theres another tank and/or they are able to balance it in a way that makes tanks fun again like the few times when ow2 first came out, i would actively queue way more tank games. Thats been an echoing sentiment with all of the people i play with and others across the community. like I really enjoyed playing tank especially during the JQ meta and was consistently queuing all Q. The casual f2p crowd is alot more flexible than people think, its just the loud awful ones that ruin it for everyone else and give a bad name.
Thanks!
Spilo's subtitles are so subway coded
Damn, a whole minute ago, I really am a Flats supporter. RIP.
Unfortunate
A whole minute. Buddy you are late
What have you become
"Nightmare blunt rotation" ok but Sigma and Bap would be great blunt partners. Moira probably wouldn't even feel the effects, and Brig would probably have the most vanilla reaction possible. Orisa would arrest you for smoking it.
5:30 also Flats to reference training encouragement. If your dog is fucking off and won’t listen to you saying “come” then finally does, why scold them for finally coming and not applaud or commend them to reinforce the correct choice. People make mistakes, but you have to give them the credit when they do shit right or else why are they going to give a shit what you think?
Im willing to bring it back to see if it helps the game overall however there will be problems. I do believe that the problems will be less significant then current overwatch.
Queue times is only an argument for very high ranks. For all the metal ranks and some of the bottom higher ranks it's self defeating. Yes 2 tanks would require twice as many people to queue, however not having to be a solo tank would allow a good bit more people to feel comfortable to queue tank, so some of issue is moot.
I don't understand the "but queue times" argument, most experienced people agree 6v6's main issue was how bad and slow the balancing was which caused the boring tanks to be meta for months. If they just keep the current pressure on balancing that they have at the moment going into 6v6 some seasons where like bastion is meta might make tank queue times bad but most of the time tank queue times probably won't be an issue. Queue times only became an issue near the end of ow1 because the developers didn't release any balance changes to the heroes that were meta defining, before they stopped updating the game tank queue times were lower however they were reasonable and not 20 minutes to find a game on dps.
I've always felt so claustrophobic when theres two poke hitscan keeping everyone from playing, but my tank can't dive them because he has to focus on the enemy's tank. If only there were another...
i wanted to really harp on Flats point at 12:00 in the video about queue times: it is absolutely THE biggest pro for 5v5. if it takes 5+ minutes to play a 5-10 minute game then a lot of people will just go play another game instead of spending 33-50% of their time waiting.
I remember playing Monday Night Combat 2's open beta and it was a LOT of fun (was playing with friends, so that helped). but i can remember when it died: when they did an update where queueing with friends made it near impossible to find a match. the game just fucking died. people stopped queueing until it was fixed and then it just became a death spiral of getting harder to find a game, which lead to more people not queueing which lead to longer queue times, etc. etc.
if people can't even get into a game then it doesn't even matter how good or bad the game is. people will just stop trying all together to play, which makes the problem even worse.
as much as having a second tank would make tanking feel better, if it causes queue times to skyrocket then say goodbye to OW as people will just stop playing.
I just prefer the teamwork vs individual play. It's what made OW special to me. It wasn't just another COD or w/e. Now its just TDM feeling and that isn't OW to me. It's more one dimensional game play vs before when it was more brain oriented.
That's the thing I miss the most about tank. Is being the one who controls the space, and the one to contest. You had an identity. Same with Support you where there to above everything else stay alive and in turn keeping the team alive. And DPS was helping clear space and dealing with the stuff the tank couldnt. Everything honestly now just feels like what health pool do you want for your dps.
Bronze take
a comment on spilos video said it perfectly, if we have to kill orisa, mauga, roadhog and ramattra, so that every other tank and the game in general feels way better, I'm happy with that lol go to 6v6, the only bad thing is ramattra getting sent as well but I have a feeling you could work his skill set into being good
To fix 6v6 queue times I'd move "off tanks" to the dps role, but make only one of them pickable at a time (kind of a sub type of dps). You end up with a hybrid 1-3-2. I think alot of dps players can play off tank, but main tank is it's own beast. This should help with tank balance too since you couldn't play multiple "main tanks" at once.
10:00 also what is worse is the dps players bitching are usually the hitscans and not the projectile players who usually take the L worse.
Why not have different formatts for different map types? Like why not 6v6 for hybrid or push and then 5v5 for control and flashpoints?
That would be terrible for groups tho, you either queue as 5 and get a random, or you queue as 6 and lose a player
All I know is playing this game and attempting to have fun lately while 9/10 games I'm either getting facefucked by a raid boss doom, a raid boss wrecking ball or getting sniped by a widow makes feel like I'm smacking my head against a fucking brick wall.
i was so used to queues from OW1 that to this day i still proclaim "damn that was fast" when i get 1 minute queues.
lol I remember the days of ow1 when I would wait in queue for one of my comp games for 15-20 minutes straight.
Regarding the argument of *queue times* : The later OW videos of Videogamedunkey mostly had this as the main point: Queue times became too long for him to enjoy the game in general.
But then he also had gripes with steamroll matches. And the sweetspot between those two axes (fast/long queue times x steamroll/balanced) had been ignored for too long.
Steamrolls are a player inconsistency problem not a matchmaking problem. Especially in a game like overwatch where 1 or 2 bad decisions can cost you entire fights which lose you entire objectives which lose you the game.
I would take Flat’s flanking take with a grain of salt if you’re in metal ranks. Flanking in 6v6 is so good if you know who to pick off
He's finally watching the video omg.
13:40 As it should be in ANY shooter imo.
Good movement is fun and being able to outschmove your enemy will ALWAYS feel better than *just* outaiming them.
Heck, it's one of 2 things that sustain Titanfall with Project Northstar. The movement is *just that good*.
I think Roadhog could work in 6v6 they just need to remove his trap and add another ability that's more for tanking and less for selfish damage
The issue when it comes to queue times are that they are still god awful in 5v5 (maybe not as bad) in spite of the developers giga buffing tanks to make them people play the role. You end up waiting for 5+ minutes every time for a QP DPS game that is unevenly matched because no one is playing, and even if it was evenly matched the balance of the game is so bad that it's not worth playing at all. So the developers have sacrificed fun for Q times and have nothing to show for it.
I miss Jeff's announcements...
I still wish we had gotten clans/guilds. The main issue with 6v6 in terms of gameplay is having to work with randoms. If we had groups that we could trust to play the way we want to, you could actively make your games more good than not
Flanking in 6. Versus 6 was still insane because there were two tanks in front of you. Stopping all your damage. The timing of went to flank wasn't as free as it is now, this actually makes flinking more rewarding in the 6v6 format.
“How would we test 7 v 7 the engine doesn’t even support that” now where have I heard that before
I know most people would disagree and its okay but I had the most fun during that hog zarya meta, dps and all others were forced to focus on their own positioning because people would get punished otherwise was amazing, it promoted individual skill and cancer low skill gap heroes were pushed to the side... good old days of like 2 weeks lol
You can’t have strategy and planning, you should only have to see enemy, kill enemy. 6v6 felt like strategy and teamwork was needed so much more than 5v5. Most of the time.
I don’t remember ever having an issue with Que times with any role in ow1 but I did play gold/plat so maybe there was just more people
I still try and right click enemies over 10 metres away when i play Hog
I love how when flats reacts to something its always 1:2 ratio duration, almost always is very close to being exactly double the duration of the source video, its genuinly crazy
They could fix queue times by lowering the amount of choice players have, like at any given time there are hundreds of custom games going then you have the open queue and all other modes.
Queue times the biggest issue with 6v6? Weren't people in queues for 10+hours like 3 seasons ago?
yeah, but that was because there were back end issues with match making
In 5v5, lots of DPS don't need the tank to do anything except not throw. Most can secure kills without even having to think, just using good aim. In 6v6, maybe it will swing back towards tanks being able to actually have some impact again
It doesn’t make sense whether it will be 5v5 or 6v6, they need to fix the matchmaking first, this is bullshit because of which I will go to marvel rivals.
A losing streak is no fun dude, okay 2-3 matches but not every 4 matches after one win.
and even then, for the sake of this one victory, you have to change your character 8 times.
Role queue and draft pick, what's locked in during draft pick is what you play for the entirety of the match. If they do this they will fix so many gripes players have about the game.
the easiest way of shortening queue times is remove specific queue times. Just randomize what roles each player has to play that game.
6v6 is going to pop off. Im excited for the trial.
When they removed 2CP and Reworked Orisa, they didn't need to shift to 5v5 as well.
If OW2 goes 6v6 you make Ram’s nemesis form have no cooldown and turn him into a real stance character
Honestly I think low ranks will cry a river with 6v6. The massive amount of flanks that are already way too opportunistic will make them feel like the 6v6 is more like a dice throw, while they still don't understand that their flanks were too aggressive.
Idk how to punish a moira as a hitscan char. I just learned reinhardt in 5v5 but 6v6 is like a new thing.
After playing the 6v6 code. Tanks were fun, Dps was fun and more heroes felt viable, Support felt boring, you had to heal more and there wasn't enough action as OW2.
I feel like most of the time back in ow1 coaches and tutorials would tell supports to damage more
Yeah, that’s what it feels like to actually have to try. When supports weren’t given unnecessary buffs
So you play support instead of dps on training wheels.
Mauga + Zarya gives me nightmares
Mauga and roadhog sucks on workshop 6v6, dont worry
Haven’t finished the vid yet, but if we do go back to 6v6, tanks become less survivable. So mauga isn’t as much of a pain and zarya just goes back to 400hp.
8:58 I LOVE HOW FLATS CURSING THERE ISNT CENSORED LMAOOOO FR SCREW MAUGA