This is common for Model As that have sat for a long time. I had to do it on my latest Fordor. I would say run lots of water thru the radiator & block a few times after you get it back together. Do not go too high a comp for an old engine ; 5.5 : 1. is OK ; If you go too high it will need shell bearings, new studs & nuts. Also, new heads are not cheap & I would consider leaving the head at low comp. The car is nearly 95 years old ; as you say once you start changing things, where to stop. The car looks good with the old disc wheels & old paint. Fix what is wrong & have fun using it. Cheers from NZ. Kiwi.
Original Model A had poured Babbitt bearings not shells. They are good for 40,000 miles or 50 years. Did Snyder 5.5 head with upgraded bolts and gasket by Best. Friends use 6.0 with no problem on Babbitt.
On my 1930 Model A I have a “Lyon Head.” This enables my car to raise the compression to about 7:01 this is just enough…and also I have a downdraft carb too. Thanks!
I had a Model A motor my brother had stored, in pieces, for right about 60 years. I wanted to see if I could re-assemble it and see if I could make it run once again. The idea was to assemble it like a depression era farmer might have using as few new parts as was absolutely necessary mostly to prove a concept. "These motors are pretty bullet proof" !!! This one was quite worn but all there. It still had Ford Script standard bore pistons and the cylinders were quite worn. It did have two broken head studs. I had good luck using a welder to remove them. Attach (weld) a flat washer to the broken stud. If it's broken below the head surface, just building it up with filler rod until you get a nice/good weld onto the washer. The washer allows you to fasten a larger nut to the stud. At least a 7/16" or 1/2" nut welded to the washer so you can get a decent size socket on the stud. The heat from the welding helps to bread the corrosion bond also. Like you said, I prefer Kroil so that's what I soaked it with for a few days first. One stud took two attempts but backed right out once we were able to get a good attachment with the welder. The higher compression head will add more pressure on your bearings so I would check them first to make sure they are up to the challenge. Check out my channel "Pappabob29" and look at "The Dearborn Granny" playlist to see the entire build. ;o) BTW, I plugged the lower water outlet hole and filled the entire block with white Vinegar. I have used the vinegar before in plumbing cases where rust was clogging steel pipes. The Vinegar dissolves the rust. Did the same thing to the head while plugging off the water pump opening. A baking soda rinse is good to neutralize. The vinegar is a different variety of acid. Acetic Acid, I believe.
Hi Maurice what a great post, I was impressed how easy it came apart, I've worked on cars half it's age and way more trouble with studs snapping flush with the block. Personally I would look into using the original head and see if you could skim it at all. Looking forwards to the reassembly. I noted another comment mentioned the fan could shatter, that happened while my father was working on a car unluckily it went through his forearm it's got to be changed for your own safety. Many thanks for sharing
I’ve had good results putting a washer on top and welding the stud and then putting a nut on top and welding the nut to the washer- let cool comes right out
Next time, to remove the head, try feeding a good length of rope into the cylinder via the plug hole. Hit your starter and it'll pop it right off. Good content.. There is also a drill bit and guide set available from some parts distributors that I've found to be a lifesaver when it comes to broken studs.
Funny you should mention that trick. We had the rope standing by just in case, but we didn't need it. About the drill guide- stay tuned for the next video! Thanks for watching.
@@horsepowerheritage Ever since I did that on Roadworthy Rescues, Model A guys have been thanking for the tip, but the credit belongs to my dad for showing me that trick a zillion years ago.
My '31 Roadster wasn't 'all together' when I got it... bro-in-law took it apart and abandoned it. So, quite literally, got a basket case - several baskets. Running & driving now, final project (fingers crossed) is making the brakes actually stop the car reliably... Those radiator bolts were not correct... correct have cross-drilled bolt coming up from underneath, spring from the top, washer, with a castle nut & cotter pin. I think spring was broken because they were way too tight. The light sockets should not have required so much disassembly... focus screw/bulb socket do not need to be removed to remove wiring. I put a 6.0:1 high(er) compression head on mine... some say it provides 25% increase in HP; 40 to 50 - wo-hoo. Was noticeable. Enjoying the progress. Interested to see where you go with it.
If it's still got the mechanical brakes I'd be real hesitant about performance mods. A mate with a 35 upgraded the brakes with Renault 10 discs that bolted straight on. Out of sight, out of mind, no one knew the difference from the outside. Who would have guessed.
Maybe remove number two or three spark plug then turn engine so a piston is at the bottom of stroke - stuff thin rope inside the cylinder then slowly turn the engine - the rope will compress against the head and probably force the head off the block.
Oh i am well aware of how out of control it can get!!!. I too have a 31 roadster. Same thing happening. Pulled the head decked it and new gasket. Over heating. Checked the valves one was bent. DOD a valve job. Still over heating. Rebuilt the carb (it was running super rich). Rebuilt the distributor, still over heating. Replaced the water pump. Still over heating. Pulled the radiator had it flushed out. Problem solved.
Hi Brad, that may be good practice in some cases, but not here. If you doubt this, look at an inductive coil heater (such as the Mini-Ductor Venom) and see how they are used. Generally it's better to heat the fastener because it will heat much faster than a head or block, which require far more energy to heat to effect. Also, fasteners are ultimately sacrificial, unlike a cylinder head or engine block. The goal of the heat is to break the bond. However, sometimes, that doesn't pan out and you have to move to plan B. Such is life with a nearly century old car. Thanks for watching!
It's not the fact that it's a CHEAP BOLT, the fact of the matter is. It's original to the car. Re-pops are not as good as originals. If you can save an original part do it. The old timers can even tell you if your using a newer or later bolt and/ or washer
I would have welded a nut on that broken bolt. The extreme heat helps break the bond and then you can use lb blaster to cool it and it gets drawn down in there. If you have a couple days the soak it and walk away but if not then use a 1/4 drive or maybe 3/8 drive impact to loosen it up or at least vintage it enough to allow the PB blaster to work in there. If it comes loose then you're done. If not then use that 1/2 breaker very carefully. If still stubborn repeat some heat and PB cycles or pB blaster it and let it sit.
You said it: "one thing leads to antother". I think you should lease the original head on it - and maybe polish it out or sand it to restore it to it's orighinal sheen.
This is common for Model As that have sat for a long time. I had to do it on my latest Fordor. I would say run lots of water thru the radiator & block a few times after you get it back together. Do not go too high a comp for an old engine ; 5.5 : 1. is OK ; If you go too high it will need shell bearings, new studs & nuts. Also, new heads are not cheap & I would consider leaving the head at low comp. The car is nearly 95 years old ; as you say once you start changing things, where to stop. The car looks good with the old disc wheels & old paint. Fix what is wrong & have fun using it. Cheers from NZ. Kiwi.
Hi Lynda, that's great advice. I think you'll be pleased to see how this project develops. Thanks for watching!
@@horsepowerheritage
Just wanted to express
How awesome this video is. Mike, nice to meet you,
Original Model A had poured Babbitt bearings not shells. They are good for 40,000 miles or 50 years. Did Snyder 5.5 head with upgraded bolts and gasket by Best. Friends use 6.0 with no problem on Babbitt.
Wow, you lucked out getting that head off so easily! Nice video, thanks for sharing.
On my 1930 Model A I have a “Lyon Head.” This enables my car to raise the compression to about 7:01 this is just enough…and also I have a downdraft carb too. Thanks!
I had a Model A motor my brother had stored, in pieces, for right about 60 years. I wanted to see if I could re-assemble it and see if I could make it run once again. The idea was to assemble it like a depression era farmer might have using as few new parts as was absolutely necessary mostly to prove a concept. "These motors are pretty bullet proof" !!! This one was quite worn but all there. It still had Ford Script standard bore pistons and the cylinders were quite worn.
It did have two broken head studs. I had good luck using a welder to remove them. Attach (weld) a flat washer to the broken stud. If it's broken below the head surface, just building it up with filler rod until you get a nice/good weld onto the washer. The washer allows you to fasten a larger nut to the stud. At least a 7/16" or 1/2" nut welded to the washer so you can get a decent size socket on the stud. The heat from the welding helps to bread the corrosion bond also. Like you said, I prefer Kroil so that's what I soaked it with for a few days first. One stud took two attempts but backed right out once we were able to get a good attachment with the welder.
The higher compression head will add more pressure on your bearings so I would check them first to make sure they are up to the challenge.
Check out my channel "Pappabob29" and look at "The Dearborn Granny" playlist to see the entire build. ;o)
BTW, I plugged the lower water outlet hole and filled the entire block with white Vinegar. I have used the vinegar before in plumbing cases where rust was clogging steel pipes. The Vinegar dissolves the rust. Did the same thing to the head while plugging off the water pump opening. A baking soda rinse is good to neutralize. The vinegar is a different variety of acid. Acetic Acid, I believe.
Hi Bob, all good tips and suggestions! Thanks for watching!
@@horsepowerheritage
See 5 .10
In video!
Spray some DW 40 on there man !!
@@horsepowerheritagehere in Russia we use CocaCola with orthophosphore and lemon acids in to remove the rust from old engines 😂
Hi Maurice what a great post, I was impressed how easy it came apart, I've worked on cars half it's age and way more trouble with studs snapping flush with the block. Personally I would look into using the original head and see if you could skim it at all. Looking forwards to the reassembly. I noted another comment mentioned the fan could shatter, that happened while my father was working on a car unluckily it went through his forearm it's got to be changed for your own safety. Many thanks for sharing
Great feedback! Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for watching!
I’ve had good results putting a washer on top and welding the stud and then putting a nut on top and welding the nut to the washer- let cool comes right out
That's a good method when you've got some material above the deck
Next time, to remove the head, try feeding a good length of rope into the cylinder via the plug hole. Hit your starter and it'll pop it right off. Good content.. There is also a drill bit and guide set available from some parts distributors that I've found to be a lifesaver when it comes to broken studs.
Funny you should mention that trick. We had the rope standing by just in case, but we didn't need it. About the drill guide- stay tuned for the next video! Thanks for watching.
@@horsepowerheritage Ever since I did that on Roadworthy Rescues, Model A guys have been thanking for the tip, but the credit belongs to my dad for showing me that trick a zillion years ago.
My '31 Roadster wasn't 'all together' when I got it... bro-in-law took it apart and abandoned it. So, quite literally, got a basket case - several baskets. Running & driving now, final project (fingers crossed) is making the brakes actually stop the car reliably...
Those radiator bolts were not correct... correct have cross-drilled bolt coming up from underneath, spring from the top, washer, with a castle nut & cotter pin. I think spring was broken because they were way too tight.
The light sockets should not have required so much disassembly... focus screw/bulb socket do not need to be removed to remove wiring.
I put a 6.0:1 high(er) compression head on mine... some say it provides 25% increase in HP; 40 to 50 - wo-hoo. Was noticeable.
Enjoying the progress. Interested to see where you go with it.
Thanks for watching! The next video will be less wrenching and more driving for sure!
I put 6.1 high compression head on it and the model B intake and model B Carb woke that little thing right up
I saw an old timer trick. Remove the spark plugs, and put some ripe down the 2 cylinders that are lower. Then crank over, to crack the head up.
Back in the days we called spiral extactors, easy outs
Thanks: Persistence pay's off, and you guy's know your stuff.😄
Thank you kindly!
Thankyou. I need a steering box.
I think they all do! haha
If it's still got the mechanical brakes I'd be real hesitant about performance mods. A mate with a 35 upgraded the brakes with Renault 10 discs that bolted straight on. Out of sight, out of mind, no one knew the difference from the outside. Who would have guessed.
Maybe remove number two or three spark plug then turn engine so a piston is at the bottom of stroke - stuff thin rope inside the cylinder then slowly turn the engine - the rope will compress against the head and probably force the head off the block.
That was plan B in case the head didn't break loose by cranking the starter. Thanks for watching!
@@horsepowerheritage
Nice spark plugs.
A 4 cyl??
I would also replace the original fan with an aluminium fan. The original fan can break off.
Great advice- and that's exactly what we did. The latest video is up now:
ruclips.net/video/9zItdJ8pMhg/видео.html
Oh i am well aware of how out of control it can get!!!. I too have a 31 roadster. Same thing happening. Pulled the head decked it and new gasket. Over heating. Checked the valves one was bent. DOD a valve job. Still over heating. Rebuilt the carb (it was running super rich). Rebuilt the distributor, still over heating. Replaced the water pump. Still over heating. Pulled the radiator had it flushed out. Problem solved.
You should always use a left hand drill bit ,works good !!!
That is often true. But trust me when I tell you that in this case, it wouldn't have made a difference.
When you heat something, heat area around bolt, not the bolt itself.
Hi Brad, that may be good practice in some cases, but not here. If you doubt this, look at an inductive coil heater (such as the Mini-Ductor Venom) and see how they are used.
Generally it's better to heat the fastener because it will heat much faster than a head or block, which require far more energy to heat to effect. Also, fasteners are ultimately sacrificial, unlike a cylinder head or engine block.
The goal of the heat is to break the bond. However, sometimes, that doesn't pan out and you have to move to plan B. Such is life with a nearly century old car.
Thanks for watching!
Good vid. What rear tires are you running?
7.50x16 rear, 6.00x16 front. Thanks for watching!
When is your next video on this project?
Most likely in about a week. We've had nonstop rain which has prevented me from shooting some video. Hang in there!
Thought you bought a Stanley Steamer!
Hi Mark! Haha, yes, it did some steaming for sure! Thanks for watching.
It's not the fact that it's a CHEAP BOLT, the fact of the matter is. It's original to the car. Re-pops are not as good as originals. If you can save an original part do it. The old timers can even tell you if your using a newer or later bolt and/ or washer
Your better off to use a left hand drill bit,and it will back it right out!!!
Hi Charles, I wish that were true in this case, but sometimes these old bolts and studs are just too stubborn. Thanks for watching!
I would have welded a nut on that broken bolt. The extreme heat helps break the bond and then you can use lb blaster to cool it and it gets drawn down in there. If you have a couple days the soak it and walk away but if not then use a 1/4 drive or maybe 3/8 drive impact to loosen it up or at least vintage it enough to allow the PB blaster to work in there. If it comes loose then you're done. If not then use that 1/2 breaker very carefully. If still stubborn repeat some heat and PB cycles or pB blaster it and let it sit.
Hi Daniel, that's a good plan but I don't have a welder... something I hope to address in the near future. Thanks for watching
@horsepowerheritage8030 Well then that makes sense--- work with what ya got!
You said it: "one thing leads to antother". I think you should lease the original head on it - and maybe polish it out or sand it to restore it to it's orighinal sheen.
Thanks, Tony. We've left it original and I'm driving it every day!
Did he ever try the rope technique to remove the head?
Keep it original!
use a left-hand drill bit
You should of used a left hand drill bit !!!!
I would leave the original head.
Performance head !!
Thanks for that, Charles! Stay tuned
Next time take the radiator off first to gain working room and protect the radiator from damage
Keep r stock..
It's only my opinion, but personally.I think you should keep it as original.As you can.They're not making any more of
Thanks! We left her stock. Just did a new video of driving the car- see my channel for that one
Next time take the radiator off first to gain working room and protect the radiator from damage