Rob grew up in a polygamist group but never felt right about it - God guided him to the LDS church.
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- #latterdaysaints #mormon #comeback
"I went on a three -day fast like I did when I needed to find answers and on the third morning of the fast I woke up. It was a Sunday morning, I just told the Lord 'I'm not getting up off my knees until you give me an answer.' I asked him because my uncle Owen, he was my dad's brother, was put in charge of the group after my dad was killed. I asked Heavenly Father if he was the prophet here on the earth or if he wasn't the prophet. I was shown a vision of a field, it was dark at night and my uncle Owen was wandering through the field. He had a dark suit on and his countenance was dark and then the voice of the Lord came into my mind and He said, 'by their fruit ye shall know them.' Then I started thinking about all the things that he had done throughout his life and things that were not always the greatest or the best. He had five or six wives and he was living polygamy. He had done some things that I didn't think were very noble or right.
I kind of pondered about that for a little bit. Then I prayed again and asked if President Gordon B. Hinckley, who was the LDS church president at the time in 1997, if he was the prophet here on the earth. I was shown the same field only it was noon day, it was bright and sunny and there was wheat blowing in the wind. President Hinckley walked out into the field and he had a white suit on and a white tie and shirt and his face was just glowing and I had the same voice come into my head, 'by their fruits you shall know them.' I was shown the things that President Hinckley had done and everything that I was shown was all good fruits. I just had this burning in my bosom and was on fire from the top of my head to my feet. This was right. He was the prophet here on the earth. And the Lord was giving me that answer. I'd never felt anything so wonderful in my life."
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Alred was a huge polygamous leader. What courage this young man has!!!
I’m thankful to not have to participate in the practice of plural marriage, but I am also grateful for those who answered the call when it was necessary, that time ended over 130+ years ago though. We know it was inspired, that it blessed those who practiced it, and many of us would not be here without it; including myself and even Elder Holland. This has been interesting to listen to, I’ll finish the other half later.
Good video. I've read and studied about early polygamy, and I also remember that Jacob says in the same revelation that the Lord condemns polygamy AND also that "if I will, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.". So I believe Joseph was indeed commanded of the Lord, and polygamy was sanctioned in the early days, but that ultimately, for exaltation, being sealed to a wife/husband is the critical thing, whether one or more than one. Right now, He has commanded that we not engage in this practice, so wonderful discussion.
Except that the Lord said to Lehi and Jacob that he specifically led them out of Jerusalem to raise up seed unto him. I believe we've interpreted this verse incorrectly. While saying this, I still believe in the principle of plural marriage, but it's only allowed under certain conditions and only righteous if it will go both ways.
@@JohnSmith-fd4ws what do you mean by “if it will go both ways”?
@@dcarts5616 wives with multiple husbands
“Flattered away”! Oh yes, a man in our Riverton, Ut ward was told exactly what his ego wanted to hear. His family was devastated, it was heart breaking to watch! Thank you for sharing your story!
I LOVE this interview! Especially the comments about wayward children and HF dealing with LOTS of his wayward children!
Those were amazing visions that the Lord showed you! So wonderful! Thank you for sharing🙏🏼
My step father, Hugh, is 88. He grew up in British Columbia, Canada. He had a difficult time understanding and accepting polygamy while growing up. He was teased by fellow classmates about it. Hugh served a mission in Sweden. While in Sweden, he met a very old lady who had joined the church as a youth. Since this old woman had been alive during polygamy, Hugh asked her what it was like being a member during the time of polygamy and if she had had any problems accepting it. (although it wasn’t practiced in Sweden). This woman looked Hugh squarely in the eyes and said, “I never had a problem accepting it. Now you listen Elder. When the Lord gives a commandment, He gives understanding with that commandment. When the Lord takes the commandment away, He removes the understanding”.
I have several pioneer ancestors who practiced polygamy. All I can say is that I’m grateful for their sacrifice and obedience.
My mission president 's wife told us that if we couldn't accept the practice of polygamy, that was good, because we're not meant to practice it at this time; and had we lived during a time when God wanted us to practice polygamy, then our hearts would be softened to accept the Lord's commandment to practice it.
That's a great insight from that sister, I'm totally writting it down! Thanks for sharing
I live in southern Utah, but grew up elsewhere. Upon moving here and encountering pligs, it was quite the experience. At work, some of our clients were from one of the splinter FLDS groups. It was very interesting as my job took me to the town and into some of the homes doing service calls. As a lifelong LDS member, I recognized the pictures of the old Prophets, statues of Joseph and Hyrum, and other Church type items. As I worked, I was thinking about it, and felt a comforting impression that they were good people, and that it was okay that they lived that way. I recoiled at the impression and prayed about it. As I prayed it became clear to me not only that they were not “okay” and what the true nature was of the impression I was having; as I realized this, that warm, comfortable spirit turned black and menacing!! I had discerned the true nature of that impression and it did not like being caught in a lie!! Having discerned that false spirit, I never again felt that way. I would conduct my work, be polite and courteous, but always felt a little “off” from then on.
Loved this episode. Thank you for sharing!
Fascinating Story. Thank you for sharing.
Ashley - I love this podcast! Thank you for your courage in sharing your story and inspiring others to do the same. It gives me hope and helps me to have a better understanding of others and to be less judgmental.
It's wonderful that you looked to the Lord through fasting and prayer for answers to your questions. Our God is so good. He blesses us with the righteous desires of our hearts as we seek him.
Imagine my surprise to find the cousin of my late wife (Jane) on the podcast! I believe I've met Rob at a family reunion or two. It's always interesting talking to my wife's polygamous and former polygamous relatives. My father-in-law was also on Ervil LeBaron's hit list even though he was not a polygamist. He was far enough down the list that he survived Ervil's reign of terror.
So interesting! Will be excited to read the book.
What a great episode, thank you.
My understanding of authorized Polygamy is that it was more of a calling and not self professed and has no place in modern society.
Agreed. - Lauren
These groups fascinate me. I’m a convert in Arkansas and was just rebaptized. My story is on my RUclips page. Living in Arkansas, I don’t see any polygamist groups but know of one in Missouri and they actually attend an LDS service every 5th Sunday. Are these groups pretty common in Utah?
Yeah apparently there are a ton of different polygamous groups. Way more than I ever thought.
Sadly yes. We used to live in the SLC Valley and it is very common. 10 years ago we moved to St. George, Ut and it is the same here. We usually see a group everytime we go to the grocery store, Walmart or Costco
My uncle agreed to help. The AZ state patrol and National Guard were deployed in a joint effort with UT authorities and raided the towns. Men were arrested and women and children were housed with AZ and UT families. Public backlash and national uproar over this was so great that charges were dropped against the men and families involved were restored.
When I was young I was good friends with Ogden Kraut and one of his wives Anne. They were good to me and it was a good friendship. When my parents found out about it and were pretty much freaking I replied, "As a gay man I don't want one wife, why would I have four?"
I thought at the time the principle was withdrawn, the existing polygamist families moved to Juarez, which i thought they did rather than divorce the extras.
Yes- there are a few colonies in Northern Mexico that many polygamous families established.
20:37 Exactly!
Tears upon hearing his vision of Pres Hinckley- so beautiful!
Did I miss -What does AUB stand for?
Thanks for the podcast. Sounds like lots of fighting went on back in the day. Hope the families get it medical and education squared away soon.
My uncle Howard was AZ Governor from 50-54. While he was Governor he was contacted by the UT Attorney General regarding the Polygamy group at Colorado City and Short Creek. The group was on both the AZ/UT border and the UT AG needed AZ support to eradicate the group.
Very interesting episode, thanks for sharing your story. He makes a very good case for why polygamy is never okay, and maybe we should listen to him considering that he’s lived it. The LDS church continues to be complicit in the actions of the FLDS and other fundamentalist groups, and they will be until they denounce this teaching and admit it was a mistake of men. Jacob 2:30 is not an exception for polygamy, this is a misinterpretation of this verse that was advanced by the early Utah polygamists.
Our podcast sustains the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We respect the way God has run His church, even if we do not have a full understanding of why certain things are done.
@@Come.Back.Podcast That’s fair, I sustain them too, meaning I support them in their callings. But, I can also discern truth and think and study for myself. Church leaders have been wrong many many times in the past, and it will continue to happen in the future. I’d encourage you to not take a black and white blind faith approach. Our polygamy narrative, just like the priesthood ban, cannot be sustained by scripture or by the history. This guest is exactly right, many of the early members likely thought they were doing the right thing, but they were wrong. There is a reason polygamy has held the church back from what it could become, and why it’s likely the number one topic that destroys testimonies.
The LDS Church has denounced this teaching since 1890, but it was never a mistake as it was commanded of God to Joseph Smith for the Lord's purposes in those days. There is a huge difference between the polygamy that was inspired by God and led by the Spirit - Compare this with the lustful polygamy of today for which men are now excommunicated from the Church. One was sanctioned by God and the other is led by lust and Satan. It is not man's place to choose it of his own accord. It is only to be used when commanded of God. It was used the same way in biblical times which shows examples of each kind of polygamy.
@@surewave8202 I wish it was that cut and dry but I’m afraid that’s not the case. I’m not looking to damage anyone’s faith but it’s important that we know our true history and that we continue to root out false traditions as we see them. You need to study what early Utah polygamy really looked like, unfortunately it’s not as different from FLDS as you think. It also didn’t end in 1890 as you’ve been told. The manifesto was a misleading statement and they had no intention of stopping the practice. Polygamy lives on in the church from an eternal standpoint so although the church does not practice it today, they have not denounced it as a principle. We can have it both ways, the church can still be true and we can be wrong about polygamy.
@@Commenter2121 The Church did stop practicing polygamy in 1890. I have several ancestors who were practicing polygamy back then and none more were entered into after 1890. Also, any who practice polygamy in Utah today are not members of the Church - or they would be excommunicated and I have seen this excommunication happen. Polygamy as given to Joseph Smith was inspired - for the Lord's purposes. I do know our history. Much of what you have just said is false.
It's interesting how you and your Mother attended the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I understand how the leaders in the Ward would release her when it was found out she was actually a practicing polygamist. Don't want the chance to influence children towards that practice. But it's too bad you weren't able to continue to attend, at least. Maybe you and your Mom could have attended, but your Mom chose not to? I lived in a small community in Utah, and there were teenaged boys who attended our Ward, that were from a polygamist family. (I had first hand knowledge from their cousin who had left the polygamist group and joined the LDS church). I believe these young men attended in order to befriend the girls. I warned the girls in our neighborhood who were the age of my daughters, but they believed the boys when they denied being in a polygamist group. It concerned me that they could marry one of these young men, then, later, the young man would decide to practice polygamy. Such a scenario has happened to several women that I am aware of. (I was dumbfounded to leatn that this happened to one of my mission companions!) It was a sad day for these women when their husbands announced to them that they were going to marry another wife! I think they had convinced their wife that they were not going to follow polygamy when they married them and that they were not polygamous or following a polygamist group, but I wonder if that was their intention all along. It seems to me that the polygamist use deceit as a common practice in their dealings with others.
Ok, I’m a little confused. You do know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, so if you’re leaving one religious group for another due to polygamy, at least make sure it’s not another polygamist group. Also, the church believes that there will be polygamy in heaven. Proof, President Nelson, the prophet is sealed to two women. He believes he will be with both in the next life. Look all of this up if you don’t believe me.
We are aware
@@Come.Back.Podcast ok just making sure. Might as well embrace the true history of the church and not try to hide anything. The church needs to re-create the movie of the first vision and Joseph Smith’s life to include all of his wives. It is such a disgrace and dishonesty to pretend he was only married to one wife, Emma.
@@user-fu6es5so7s You need to do some more research. Check out 132 Problems of Mormon Polygamy on RUclips. We all were where you are now. When you know better you do better.
There are no CONTEMPRANEOUS RECORDS to recreate the movies about Joseph Smith living Polygamy as a correct Church History. Only fairy tales. They would be required to use post mortem journals with second and third hand accounts that can easily be proven false with a bit of detective work. When you learn it, It helps you to understand God so much more. He is loving and wants us to obey his commandments. But alas, some men want what they want and get what they want. They were just waiting until Joseph Smith was out of the way so they could begin their reign of terror. And it was terrible, more than you know and more than the history is told.
@@user-fu6es5so7s The First Vision movie is about the first vision, not polygamy. Church history has always recorded the fact of early polygamy.
@@anonanon2396 ok