Jehovah’s Witness: The Inhumane Practice of Familial Isolation
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- Опубликовано: 23 май 2024
- Creative expression is part of our human nature. When belonging to a high control group, one of the first things that is sacrificed is individuality, freedom of self expression, and education about the world outside of the group. Scott was always craving creativity, especially when it came to music. After breaking through the chains of Jehovah’s Witness restrictions, he found continued solace in music. However, that came with the high cost of extreme shunning from his former friends and immediate family. Through his pain, he has created a beautiful documentary called Witness Underground, showcasing other musical artists and their journey to self discovery despite the shunning they all face.
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Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
Chapter Markers
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:11 Some basics about being Jehovah's Witness
00:08:36 Let's talk about Doomsday
00:15:17 Who gets into JW heaven?
00:22:30 Chris tries converting his biology teacher
00:29:04 His first "heathen job" at a TV station
00:31:52 Getting in trouble for partying with "worldly" people
00:42:09 Chris confronted his father about not believing anymore
00:51:34 He got a band together
00:56:55 What caused Chris to question JW the second time around?
01:04:07 He dropped the non-believer bomb AND the I love you bomb to his girlfriend
01:08:32 His family's reaction to him leaving JW
01:11:27 He kept running into ex JWs
01:14:54 Post-cult music genre
01:17:24 Chris performed a powerful "un-baptism"
01:29:18 How to support "Witness Underground"
01:31:48 Linda, Listen
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
I went to school with a boy, “A,” when I was in 2nd grade. He was raised a JW, I sat next to him in class, and I had a huge crush on him. He had these really cool marbles that I really admired, that he kept in his desk. One day, our teacher decided that it was ridiculous that a child couldn’t celebrate their own birthday, and had his mom make cupcakes for A. The next day, A’s parents removed him from the school due to the birthday cupcakes, and I never heard from him again. While he was cleaning out his desk, he pulled out this lovely blue marble and gave it to me. I have it in my jewelry box to this day, 32 years later. Every time I see it, I think of him, and I really hope he’s okay.
Wow! The power of gift giving in memory and meaning making! Thanks for sharing! - Scott
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
aw that's made me feel sad xxx If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
@JP-rx2zu
What a heart touching/breaking story all in one! Have you ever thought of looking him up? That is if you remember his name.
@@kim-kim7858 I do remember his first name, and since I have my 2nd grade yearbook, that would have his last name as well. I should, honestly!
Oh my goodness! How lovely ❤ to have kept it all of those years! I hope he reads your comment someday.
I was born and raised a JW and left many MANY years ago when I was 18. That was also when I celebrated my FIRST Birthday. It was LIBERATING! Leaving that cult was one of the BEST things I ever did. No regrets. NEVER GOING BACK. And never have been happier. I LOVE celebrating the Holidays......GUILT FREE. I love being able to critically think for myself and having the FREEDOM to QUESTION EVERYTHING without the constant fear of shunning. My sister no longer speaks to me. My father doesn't speak to me. And my mother now probably will never speak to me again after our recent argument about the cult. I was never baptized but they can not stand ANYONE talking about the cult and they will shun you anyways. They have double standards. They are HYPOCRITES. And most the rank and file members are completely CLUELESS as to what is going on behind the "wizards curtain". When I told my mother about all of the CSA going on and told her I could show her the proof she literally told me she did NOT want to look at it. It's just so disturbing! I have lost all respect for my mother, father and sister as they would rather stick their heads in the sand than know the TRUTH about "the truth".
Beautiful sentiments. I'm of this mindset too, I'm not angry anymore, I bloody love being free of it and I have no time for Jws and their judgeyness and closed mindedness.
@@OnzaRaybone It is FREEING! :D
My parents joined JW when I was 5. I spent all of my school years being the out cast. My skirts had to be over my knee, no prom, parties, holidays, boyfriends etc. The break point for me was I was friends with someone in the JW's who was from a broken home, did drugs and was very depressed. The witnesses eventually disfellowshipped him, which meant I wasn't allowed to talk/associate with him. He eventually put a gun to his head and killed himself. I was so disgusted that the JW's cut him off from his only friends at a time when he needed friends, I just quit. So much for the "big happy family" environment they promote, calling each other brother and sister. Hypocrites!!
They cast any and everyone to the curb and they truly don't care at all what happens. My entire family would prefer if I died rather than to have to ever communicate with me again. I left because I simply don't believe it. They can't handle that. They need me to have left for sin or to attack them. I have never had any interest in it. It's a dark Amway, selling immortality in exchange for life-long slavery. To save face they destroy the reputation of anyone who leaves, and lie to themselves and others about them. I'm so disgusted by how they turn on people. In our documentary, Witness Underground, one interviewee, Chad Rhiger says, [As a witness] "You have to completely shit on the memory you have of somebody to do the mental gymnastics required to maintain your faith while shedding community members." Everyone in and outside are the victims but I really don't know how active members can find any peace when they know they are being dishonest and showing hatred with themselves about someone they used to claim to love. Active members are the true victims. Those of us who got out at least have the possiblity of processing our trauma and untrapping our minds.
I agree...they are hypocritical.
Wow that's awful. I'm so sorry for you and your friend. Glad you got away
My friend too. 17 years old.
I am sorry you lost your friend. The loss has affected me for the rest of my life. He was 21. I saw his mother about 5 years ago at a funeral. She is still A JW. Seriously, didn't she learn anything???? @@asspatsandsuperchats6578
I was raised 3rd Gen JW. Married at 18yo. And had daughter at 21. Left at 23. I am DISFELLOWSHIPPED, going through Cancer without ANY care or empathy let alone contact even so...
I'm only 33 yo. Feeling the cults full force now ...
Hang in there!!! It'll get easier.
Everyone says I should write a book...no one believes my reality. It's disgusting. ❤ from Australia
@majliswielders
You will have true friends from the worldly class.
Their love and attention will be UNCONDITIONAL unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses where it is a big secret club.
Health and I particular good will from Queensland.
I’m in Australia too, not DF’d, just fading for the sake of my parents. Sending you love & hugs from QLD.
Best wishes from Perth
Do you live on Gold Coast l have been going thru cancer treatment too and would be willing to support you emotionally if you want
I’m American but going to Australia in January… I really pray that all of you guys are doing good
The college thing is how my cousin got disfellowshipped. He has 7 siblings who are not allowed to acknowledge his existence anymore, because he wanted to study fine art. It's awful.
That’s awful! All in the name of higher education
It's so insane they way they treat their own family and members. Mormon and Ex-Ultra-Orthodox Jews think JWs are nuts for the shunning.
Tbf on the college thing, maybe people I knew several different families were more liberal, but most highly prized education. My friend became a pharmacist, her mom was a radiographer. The only other person in my primary school class who went to a grammar school, you had to pass specific exams, was also a JW. But of course these groups always try to push people away from education, keep people ignorant and they're easier to lie to. Both of those cases were in Ireland, which might also account for the difference and also I was never a member
If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I got df'd because I played reggae music in my band..I was also accused of sleeping with the man I married before we were married..lol
I remember how my best friend in 8th-10th grade did date a boy from the JW, and she later told me that she secretly celebrated his birthday with him, because he was really sad from the exclusion of all these things. I am so proud of her being rebelliously celebrating this boy's birthday and letting him feel special, as any kid/person should experience.
It's a big no no to even date a worldly person as they call anyone that isn't a witness.
yeah, nobody knew, not even us worldly friends. She only told me after the fact .-.
@@tonyaperfect4280
Yes
This is unconditional LOVE x
That probably changed his life. Thanks for sharing. It's these little moments that can make big impact. If you want to watch Witness Underground, it's available for the first time in our campaign. It's the Last Days for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description.
My two brothers and my stepmother are Witnesses. They are still kind to me and keep in touch. I didn't realize how brave that was of them.
If you were never baptized, they are not required to shun you.
They have a conscience I'm glad.
@@jannettb7930There can still be social pressure to do so anyway from what I’ve heard. 😢
@@jannettb7930 my self and all my brothers were baptised as infants, my brother is homosexual but my Dad and our stepmum are JW but they didn't shun us. And are welcomed in the home including my brothers partner. They have never been anything but respectful. My stepmother loves us and treats us like her own children.
@@dawn5227JWs can be baptized as babies? Hmm. Never heard of that!
I grew up as an active JW until I was in my 30's. I moved away from family for a job and just never went to meetings in my new home. I haven't disassociated or really said anything because I didn't want the shunning. But I'm so uncomfortable with my family that I'm practically shunning them. The outcome is the same. 😢
Very interesting perspective and definitely something to consider. Thanks for sharing ❤️
It's not good for our mental health is it? I had 'ambiguois grief' counselling a few years ago which helped. It deals with people who are still alive but you are unable to be connected to them. If you want to support as a way of feeling empowered, it's the Last Days for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live
You will probably end up getting shunned anyway, jana.
You ex-cult folks do so much for the world. Thank you. ❤️
If you want to support, it's the Last Days for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live
I had a similar experience being raised by a JW father and a Catholic mother (my dad became a JW after they were married at a point he was vulnerable as a young man in a new place). We also had lower expectations placed on us by the organization since my mom was still a practicing Catholic. So I had the full holiday experience, likely intensified by my mom’s desire to go above and beyond to counteract my dad’s non-participation. I also questioned many parts of the doctrine from a young age but I was still vulnerable at one point to considering being baptized as a JW. And I’m so thankful that I never was, likely due to my mom’s influence. The decision to not get baptized is 100% the reason I was never disfellowshipped, why I was able to just fade away and why I still have a relationship with my father. My mom passed away in 1999 and it took me a few years before I really appreciated the full impact she had on my life and creating as normal of a childhood as I had, even through all the fights about religion and the difficulties it must have caused in her marriage. She didn’t sign up for a lifelong marriage to a JW. I recently watched an old video of my dad in his 20’s opening Christmas gifts with my mom before his conversion. His pure joy was heartbreaking. Christmas was my moms favorite holiday which I think makes it even more bittersweet. ❤️
@@allisonhurt5246So you do not become a Jehovah's Witness until you are baptised, I take it?
I studied with JW for a few months, I was ready to commit until i hemorrhaged after having a baby and had to choose
I'm sorry for what you went thru in your pregnancy. But that pregnancy saved your life in more ways than u know! ❤
It's horrific to think if all the women who may have lost their lives in that situation and left their children without a mother because of that JW belief.
Remember this: their Bible isn’t the Bible. It’s edited.
@@HelennaRose aren't basically all the Bible's edited, through translations and updated versions etc?
@@powderandpaint14 Agree with you.
100% What Scott said about fantasizing & picking out houses of "sinners" is TRUE! I remember being about 10yrs old and being out preaching with my mom and being encouraged by the adults in the car to imagine living in one of their houses in the new world! Im in NY, btw. Even as a child, I was deeply disturbed by this! And I worried about what would happen to the people in those houses.
I never got baptized. I saw too much wrong inside this cult. Yet, they did have me mentally for most of my life even tho I wasn't officially IN. Today I am fully out & awake 4 years. I am 53yrs old.
Thank you for sharing that!
I find it so fascinating on so many levels.
1) they claim to be Christian and most Christians follow the Ten Commandments... of which one is thou shall not covet😂
2) My group of friends kinda leans towards leftist prepper light style behaviours. Aka we have 72h kits and we mobilized buddy systems and stuff like that for COVID really quickly because we discuss this stuff in advance (we were talking about shortages and transportation issues in Jan 2020 already). We have easily adaptable plans for emergencies like ice storms or forest fires (based on our area) but the running joke is always zombies and zombie contingency plans. That started in high school and I've had joking zombie bug out plans for years. We constantly joke like "oh in the zombie apocalypse that house would be so good for xyz reasons so either they join our group or they walk the plank." It's weird how that lines up in a way that's really making me go HUH....
@@BeingLolaStar overall, they SAY their message is one of peace & love. This is NOT TRUE. The primary message is that Jehovah is going to mass genocide everyone so that THEY can have the world to themselves & live forever in perfection. They are waiting for their God to get rid of everyone who they consider "NOT RIGHT-HEARTED" (aka unable & unwilling to be brainwashed into believing the horriblethings they teach!)
I'm a huge post-apocalypse film and series fan@@BeingLolaStar It might have something to do with my parents joining a doomsday cult and unsuccessfully attempting to indoctrinate me. This is the most fun comment so far :) Thank you
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
Yeah, it's so nuts that the most 'in' people would fantacise about their god murdering the unbelievers and taking their stuff, their house. It got to the point that I really expected the leaders to change the narrative to, we can't wait on Jesus anymore to do the dirty work, we're going to have to kill the non-believers ourselves. I still think there's a chance they will pull that card one day. That was the one idea that really hit me from Amber Scorah's book, "Leaving the Witness." She mentioned how she was so in that she thought she might be asked to do the killing. The thought scared her.
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
Outside of Christianity, Jehovah witness is the one other religion I was exposed to in a major way. I dated a guy for 3 years who was shunned from his congregation. I never met any of his family, and at one point, he asked me to join the church so he could return and sustain our relationship. I can vouch for the shunning being extremely detrimental to his mental health.
Woah that's so sad. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
is a good thing you ddnt help him sustain your relationship or not
I was raised in that awful environment. Abused in every way possible from my earliest memories. Being ostracized by classmates is horrible. Being ostracized by your family after growing up as an outcast is nearly debilitating. Having your mother tell you tell you that at 14 that something you wore caused elders to "molest" you is heartbreaking. Being forced to get on your knees to pray for forgiveness for lying about the things these "men" did to me is still unforgivable. She was so brainwashed. I would throw up being forced to knock on doors and share bull$4it I didn't believe in, it was horrifying. Diagnosed autistic later in life explains the nausea but it doesn't negate the embarrassment. I would've been happy to come to class 5 minutes late to avoid being the only kid in class not standing for the pledge of allegiance. I literally never had a toy or even dolls because they wouldn't be brought into the new order, so why waste the money? I've been an avid reader since I could walk, and my grandmother made sure I had all the classics to read when I was with her. Had it not been for her, I would have virtually no education because they pulled me out of school right after 8th grade in 1975 because I didn't need an education as that was the year Armageddon was going to happen. I stopped going to meetings at 15 and was promptly told by my mother it was okay if I left home. BTW my father was raised LDS and never was a JW. So I didn't have that side of the family to turn to. I'm an absolute Atheist. I could go on for hours, but watching this channel has made me feel so much less alone in the shunning and abuse these cults embrace.
Thank you for sharing that. It was far too common.
Woah that is brutal. I left 30 years ago. x If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
so sorry to hear what you have been through. the abuse, the way you dress up as a child. have you seen how child abuse became rampant in every single cng of jw
I’m an ex fundamental Pentecostal and my best friend is a shunned JW and we love them awareness you’re bringing light to. She has 2 children whe parents have never met. The generational trauma just goes on and on if we stay silent. ❤ thank you
Thanks for sharing! I hope to be a part of helping to break the cycle for many.
I worked retail with a lot of JW women in the 2000s. They always frustrated me because they would snatch up all the holidays where you would get paid double or time and a half but then would take time off the next day or two to celebrate a strangely similar holiday just not called the holiday… often they were quite snooty about it which just annoyed me more. 😂 It did help me see how religions can be so hypocritical and to check myself in my own faith as a Christian, so there’s that! 😊
We're taught that we are just that little *above* all the "worldly" people. So yes, snootiness is engrained.
Just when I think I've heard it all! What a total scam JWs are. I got out 30 years ago luckily but been putting myself back together ever since! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Maybe it would be better to feel gratitude towards then as if no one could fill your holiday shifts it may hurt the businesses you all work for or maybe your boss would have to say no to you taking time off for your holidays. (I'm not JW nor have ever been but your post seemed to lack the gratitude most would have to others and just shows like jealousy.)
I grew up associated with JWs. My mom was not. My Dad and brother were. Celebrating holidays after the holiday or renaming it was so hypocritical. My sister-in-law had married brothers who were high up in their congregations. To my utter surprise they took their families to Disneyland World on Christmas Day for a family outing. 🤣
My JW sister and nieces don't celebrate birthdays but happily accept my mother's birthday money. It's funny the exceptions they make. Total hypocrites. They are extremely snooty and dress all fancy to go to kingdom hall as well. Their wardrobe and jewelry must cost them a fortune. It's just so ridiculous.
I live in the southern part of Mexico and the grip the JWs have on the people here is just sick.
We hired someone as a nanny, knowing she was a JW. We told her that we don't mind that she is JW but under absolutely no circumstance is she to bring up any part of her religion to my children. We treated her children very well and she did the same with ours. We gave her kids gifts at Christmas time with plain paper and said it was just a winter gift. Warm pajamas, big fluffy socks, art supplies, etc. They struggled a lot financially, so we liked helping them and giving them things that we knew there was no way they could afford. We loved them like family.
Then one day I walk into my son's room where she has him set up on her phone watching JW kids videos. I had to fire her on the spot. She was trying to indoctrinate my 3 year old into a cult. It was devastating. We had put so much trust in her not doing that. We respected her religious choice and never once made her or her children feel badly about it. And she directly went against my wishes to try and brainwash my kid.
Later on, during the pandemic, she reached out and asked us for help. We had told her that we would never allow her children to go hungry and to let us know if they needed food. I went shopping and bought a full cart full of basic food staples and a bunch of treats for everyone. Like I said, I loved those kids like family. I delivered it all, over an hour away from my house... the next week, she asked me if she could just have the money instead... turns out the church was upset with her because there wasn't enough food for her to share with the church because I had bought them special treats like hot chocolate, more craft stuff, books, etc. So she was told to only accept cash from me so that the church could go buy what they wanted. Needless to say, I did not give them any cash. From then on, I bought the basic staple foods and delivered it every 2 weeks so there was only enough for her to feed HER family. I was absolutely sickened by the fact that she was being forced to share what she received even though she used the literal term starving when she first reached out. I also gave her the names and numbers of organizations that would deliver food to the other members of her congregation, just not the church itself. No idea if she ever gave anyone those numbers.
I feel so bad for her kids and I hope they see the truth one day and get out. They are such smart, kind, and funny kids and don't deserve to be in a doomsday cult.
Anyway, all that to say, thanks for this video. I appreciate so much all the work that ex cult members do to try and keep others from falling into the trap and hopefully get those in it out.
I live in Progreso and YES! So many JWs. I am very happy to read your comment because the babysitter we were lookinh at hiring is JW
Oh my gosh! Thank you for sharing. How frustrating. I’m also appalled that she was forced to share what you specifically gave her to feed her family. Thanks for being a good person and helping her even when she directly went against your rules❤️
@@samt923 small world! I was in Chicxulub!
That's a powerful story! You made the right choice for your kids. Thank you for sharing. I was also just living in south Mexico, Playa Del Carmen. The Spanish speaking world needs a big activism push to help people to untangle themselves. There are a ton of resources to do so in English but other languages much less. I have done a few episodes in spanish on the Witness Underground Podcast for this reason and I now live in Panama. Si tienes algun razon a compartir fuentes con alguine como ella, di me y puedo conectarte con algunos personas, caneles, podcast etc.
Spot On!!! Thank you for your comment. They shamed her, but worse shamed hungry Kids in need, in a pan=epidemic. Add on how Today Families struggle to handle very high Food prices and now (heck) ALL retail goods. Where are the minds & eyeballs of these so-called JW Church Leaders. No way will be 1 of 144,000. Don't forget the Cave Man. 144,000 People / Souls. LOL!! With all due respect, God Loves Us All, even Non-Believers. We have until the moment we die to make peace with God. * How dare a member of different faith be so brainwashed he/she sees it their duty to indoctrinate your toddler. It's like the schools now run shotgun over parents heads teaching social subject matters to kids whose maturity is not able to comprehend what the teacher is told teach or be fired. I hope people read your story and realize the need to be alert and vigilant. :>
What sucks is watchtower can quote other sources to mislead but no one is allowed to go search those resources quoted...
My mom was brought into the witnesses before I was born by her cousin. At the age of five we left because she was diagnosed with cancer and needed blood transfusions. She did pass away 10 years later, she got a decade of added time with her family. Fast forward 30 years, I have a son who is a leukemia survivor. My childhood best friend asked me if I would go back (she is a witness), I said no because blood and platelete transfusions were a huge part of his lifesaving treatment. She looked at me and replied that there are alternative treatments. I cried in the middle of the store. No religion is worth sacrificing an eight year old child for and I was shocked that they still practice the same barbaric beliefs even decades later. I love her still but I know she is fully in and there was no response I could have said to change her beliefs. No one with a clear mind would suggest such things especially since she was my best friend when my mother died.
***edited to add:
I wanted to highlight the fact that even at the age of 5, this was a traumatic enough experience for me to build a strong aversion to all organized religions. Even though I still believed in God, I didn’t trust any person making decisions in the name of God. I can only imagine the trauma experienced by the families who chose to stay and die a premature and/or preventable death to stay apart JWs, thinking this was there only way to be chosen at the end.
What an arse, sorry but they are like robots aren't they? If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
sorry for the loss of your mom but good that she got an extra 10 yrs with treatment .. sorry for your son''s diagnosis but glad he received the treatment he needed and is a survivor.. the Watchtower has gone back and forth on this blood doctrine so many times it is obvious they do not have God's backing..one time i made a chart about the changes on the blood doctrine and it was very plain to see this.. for many years they would not allow factor 8..so who knows how many hemopheliac children died refusing the life saving treatment of factor 8.. and then one year WT decides that taking factor 8 does not violate God's law on blood.. so my question to WT adherents is "Who is responsible for all the children that died from refusing factor 8? before they made the change ?... certainly not God and certainly not their parents, but the leaders of the religion who make all the dogmatic rules and laws are.. they have bloodguilt on their hands.. it is just so very sad for the people that lost their children... do you know what my "elder" brother in law on my husband's side said to me when i asked him that? he said "well Lora at least we know they will get a resurrection".. i was furious and said "well why don't you just put yourself in the shoes of a parent who refused factor 8 for their child (because they were following direction from "God's org") and hence their child died.. only to find that the organization allowed factor 8 the next year.". that is simply the result of following man and a man made organization rather than God..because to God Life is precious..Anyways.. that is my rant on this very critical and serious subject..and i am so thrilled you got out when you did and you could make your own decisions based on advice from health care professionals regarding your son's health and well being.. and he is with you today because of your decisions and care and love..
@@lorawilliams346 thank you, I totally agree. What my friend didn’t understand is that my son needed a blood transfusion before he was even able to be diagnosed, within hours of being brought to the ER with bone pain and fatigue. He would have died before we could have even considered an “alternative treatment.” No use in trying to tell her this because she was not open to the conversation. Also, like you mentioned, they can even make up their minds about which life saving treatments to allow, how can parents cope with their reality of allowing their child to die while another is allowed treatment. It’s truly heartbreaking.
@sevenandthirt
My deepest sympathy for your loss of mother AND the health problems of your son.
I'm surprised you didn't slap that bitch's face when she showed no sign of sympathy or empathy as you talked in the supermarket.
Stick to your guns and let them, these wolves in sheep's clothing, know you have your son alive to enjoy his growing up and company.
❤❤❤❤
Glad you got out and found freedom. Wonderful interview, thank you. ❤️
I was indoctrinated at the age of 7 in 1967. Life was bad before but it got much worse after. They taught Armageddon was coming in 1975 in those days. Major mind f*ck
I hope you got the support you needed now. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Leaving the JW is so difficult! I've mostly faded out but it still hurts and trying to figure out who I am at 45 isn't easy. Thanks for sharing this experience
You’re not alone!❤️
Sorry to hear that, I've been out 30 years but I found joining some exJW FB groups really helped!
Sharing really helps to normalise the grief and loss you feel. It’s hard and I hope you get some comfort that you are not alone❤
You’re definitely not alone, I’m only a year younger & in the same position.
I know I'm not alone but very emotional and somewhat hurt. I don't like it but I'm dealing with it
Very well said. Everything he said was very relatable. I am EX JW ex Bethelite Ministerial Servant and Pioneer, and the amount of self-righteousness that runs in the organization is obvious yet many see it and are denying it. Creativity isn't encouraged. Latin Dance Salsa was banned in my area because of me. When I left for good and embraced Professional Dance I had no regrets.
Salsa was banned?! It’s my favorite!!
@CultstoConsciousness Yes, sadly
I grew up a JW and was very dedicated up until my late teenage years. I started turning my back when I realized I was being blamed by the congregation for other teens short coming. I didn’t police my friends because I wasn’t their parent. I moved away at 18 and moved back in with my parents at 20. My dad’s health started to fall apart and I questioned how such a devoted, loving man could go through what he went through. I shortly stopped attending meetings and started living for myself a bit. My father’s brain process had been changed from brain surgery and kicked me out. I bought a home and started my freeing process but got disfellowshipped shortly after. 5 years later I’ve spoken to my father maybe 3-5 times and those were under drastic circumstances. My mom checks in on me and encourages me. My sister and I are luckily very close. I still love them very deeply but I doubt I could ever go back.
I had a JW friend in high school and it was wild the mental gymnastics the family had to go through to let my friend participate in various activities, both academic and recreational. It was a private school and we had a special event at the end of the year and it was Christmas related since it was created in the 1800’s but the heart of it was more a winter event that marks the end of term. She wasn’t allowed to attend but they let her help backstage or something so she could get a part of the experience or something. It was so strange.
I recently shared my explicit doubts about the faith with my family. My parents just had their 45th anniversary and I was still in the family group chat. In the end, uninvited to my parents anniversary dinner, and shunned.
I did the same as this guy. I wrote a letter to my sisters and didn’t sent it. We had a zoom call and I became very emotional.
It’s over. I’m shunned. I didnt even get officially kicked out. But shunned just the same.
Thanks for this show and sharing the experiences.
I remember this like it was yesterday and I'm 60. Lol. I was a senior in college and we were getting ready to graduate. The teachers were getting ready to hand out awards for various things. My advisor calls me in one day and informs me that I will be receiving the "Outstanding senior in Social Work" plaque. I knew there was one other lady (a few years older than traditional student) who most certainly HAD to have a higher GPA. In learning that yes I did indeed have the second highest, I was informed that Lynn was a Jehovah's Witness and could not be singled out for such an award. I've never known quite how to feel about that. I am able to show my kids and grandchildren a plaque she most certainly should have been able to share with her loved ones. That was a really eye opening experience that, like I said, I have never forgotten.
how is lynn doing these days
@@rhelsyc I wish I knew. I haven't seen her since then
Oh my goodness!! As a public school teacher, my JW kids always had to be left out, or be absent from all fun we had in the classroom! It completely broke my heart, and there was absolutely nothing I could do to help those dear children! Often times, when these events happened, I’d receive a copy of the Watch Tower book. It boggled my mind, and always felt so cruel to me! You’re such a genuinely caring man, I’m so sorry you’ve gone through such heartache!!
it is indeed difficult to do otherwise
I was one of those children 😢
What a beautiful human being. What a profound mission. As someone old enough to be your parent, Scott, I want to say (if I may) how very proud I am of what you have done with your life. Please keep inspiring others to creatively express their wisdom. If I could, I would adopt you. Hugs xx
Scott, your story and emotions were so real, so tangible. Thank you for sharing your story and your art. Much healing to you ❤️
Thank you! I'm not always in a position to put that into the world but there you go world. Thanks for your comment!
Yeah it's definately the most emotive interview he's done till now and really helpful. Please drop a pledge on the Witnesss Underground
Yea thank you!!! I felt a connection with you. It is so painful. I know exactly how you feel. Thank u for sharing. Sending love and hugs 🤗
Such a great video. I was in for 50 yrs. My youngest daughter is a musician and was told not to play publicly cause she might be discovered. She has now played for large audiences and even singing the national anthem.
What a nice interview. I’m an ex JW who grew up in Brazil and currently live in the Netherlands, and I can relate so much with Scott’s story.
PS: I would love to be interviewed by you Shelise! ❤
We have a link in our about section where you can fill out a form!
I think shunning is an end time prophecy being fulfilled. A particular time that needs to be carefully examined, especially if the shunning always includes and divides family members:
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Luke 12:49-56
“I came to start a fire on the earth, and what more is there for me to wish if it has already been lighted? 50 Indeed, I have a baptism with which to be baptized, and how I am being distressed until it is finished! 51 Do YOU imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell YOU, but rather division. 52 For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against [her] mother, mother-in-law against [her] daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against [her] mother-in-law.” 54 Then he went on to say also to the crowds: “When YOU see a cloud rising in western parts, at once YOU say, ‘A storm is coming,’ and it turns out so. 55 And when YOU see that a south wind is blowing, YOU say, ‘There will be a heat wave,’ and it occurs. 56 Hypocrites, YOU know how to examine the outward appearance of earth and sky ---------->> BUT HOW IS IT YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO EXAMINE THIS PARTICULAR TIME?
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Failure to examine this particular time, results in Jesus Christ calling us hypocrites!
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There is something far more profound happening here than just families being divided!
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My own conclusion after very carefully examining this world wide event, is that the WHEAT is now being separated from the WEEDS.
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The conclusion of this system of things!
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Christians intimately familiar with each other being taken. Stolen by a thief.
And no one is noticing!
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Matthew 24:39-43
** AND THEY TOOK NO NOTE ** until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. 43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch ** THE THIEF ** was coming,
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Who is the thief?
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Jesus Christ!
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Ask a Jehovah's Witness to carefully examine all the families in their congregation.
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Anyone missing?
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What is now happening, is EXACTLY what Jesus Christ said would happen!
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I'm always so glad to listen to people on this show whom escape the grips of cults... Nobody deserves emotional abuse and I'm always happy when people are free.
Great, in that case, If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Growing up 3rd generation JW- and out 25 years now I wish I would have had this kind of support group around! This is very healing for me and just solidifies my gut instincts were correct. My anger towards my dad and his whole side of family is now turning to ..I feel
Sorry for them all… cult trauma is real😢 I love music for healing ❤️🩹
I’m so happy to hear that this has been helpful! ❤️
I so want to open up. I want to speak but I can’t, I don’t want to loose my family. I have family in the hospital liaison com. My dad was a prominent member. So many stories about the blood issue to share. So much to share about bethel and all the frustrations. But when your family is held captive, it’s insane.
I've lost my cousin, who was like a sister to me, and her family to the JW's. We love her for who we knew, however we do not like her. Thank you so much for sharing your story and allowing me some insight into what I consider bananas. I wish all good things for your future Scott ❤
Thank you! It's all bananas.
How can you love someone but not like them? I am asking out of sheer curiosity, not out of nastiness.
After mom was divorced and they came knocking she sat with them a few times. So glad she didn't settle into that religion. One of my be friends where I live was raised JW and definitely doesn't follow it closely at all and left the cult, but his grandma is still JW. When I was in Middle school I met a JW girl and she was so offended that I loved birthdays and holidays. She was a terrible person.
your dad surely scared them off bf hand. they like to get involved in ppl's business
My best friend during highschool, grew up with JW parents, but didn't join himself. I have seen the damage this ideology did to him, even though he is not religious and after many years I was not able to continue the friendship, because his mental illness took a toll on me. I felt guilty for a long time, but I had to prioritise my own mental wellbeing. I hope he found people who can support him better than I was able to.
Thanks for sharing your story!
We all have to make decisions like this sometimes. I now try to practice boundary creation with as much openness and clarity as possible and I appreciate it when people communicate what's going on for them. Relationships are always in a flux.
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
I’m a non Dub but have been shunned by my PIMI sister for over 25 years. Sorry to hear about your family buddy. I didn’t write a letter but felt she died 25 years ago. I see her every now and then but she no longer resides in her body. It has been taken over by a JW robot. Thanks for your story.
That's a pretty accurate description JW bot is good too. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Juice🥤Wizards of
🏃WATCHT👁WN
she doesn't reside in her body like she still alive or is she dead. sorry, i ddn't really the meaning
Thank you ❤ there is so much I would like to share about my miserable experience in this cult after my mother then father converted when I was a teenager, and the impact it continues to have, but for family reasons I can’t at the moment. I too am being shunned, I can completely understand and echo Scott’s pain. It’s not our shame, to me it’s their shame, who can sit in judgement of another (or would want to). I have my own family now (all grown up), I love them unconditionally.
I hope that one day you will feel comfortable to share you experience without fear. There was a full decade that I didn't out of the hope that one day, I would have a relationship with someone in my family again. For that hope I kept quiet. Then I realized that the relationship didn't exist at all. I had nothing to lose, so to tell the story of the that loss without any filter became my life's mission. This film is in reaction to emotional abuse by those who are coerced to shun by their mental captors. They of course try to spin the story that they will not talk to me because I made a negative film attacking them and they will never openly watch it. I hope they do because it might get them to think for once about what they are a part of.
Keep on loving unconditionally. I'm happy to hear of another family breaking the generational cycles of abuse and trauma!
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@@WitnessUnderground thank you so much, and of course I will. I too hope your family and many other current witnesses will watch your film, and be moved to acknowledge the very real damage and impact caused by the shunning rules. They certainly don’t act as an incentive to go back!
@@philippalincoln2262Shunning happens with then Plymouth Brethren too😢.
I don’t see any of my cousins, grandparents,etc my father left as a teenager. He was brave and I admire him every day. He is courageous and I love him to bits. He has been a shining example/to his family despite being dropped by all his own.😢
@@arnicepernice8656 wow, I didn't know this. It's so hard isn't it, it's natural to want to see our families. It's lovely to hear you have a relationship with at least one close family member, I can imagine that's very precious. X
thank you xxx@@philippalincoln2262
very good interview. Often X witnesses are so angry that they don't come across clearly. This guest is great. I was a Witness and an Elder in the congregation. Left in style years ago and then ended up in Hollywood. Just subscribed to your channel. Would love to talk some day. Thank you and your guest
Shelise, I love that you acknowledge that someone has to have the right tools/timing/situation to safely deconstruct and we should hold empathy for those that don’t have the luxury right now to do so. Trying to be patient & compassionate is key. Everyones journey is different. 💛
It’s so interesting listening to Scott talk about the discussion he had with his dad once he stepped away from the church. I am ex-Mormon and had almost the exact same conversation with my mom (who practices similarly to Scott’s dad, saying you don’t have to follow every rule, you just have to believe to be saved). It was eye opening to me when Scott said his dad “wants me to get to his afterlife” (paraphrasing). I think a lot of the worry from parents when their kids leave the family religion/HDG is that then their children “won’t be saved”. When you are in groups like this, you TRULY think it is the one and only way to salvation, therefor if your children leave, you are losing them for an eternity, even when they are still physically standing beside you.
I'm glad that resonated. I've never told of that moment before because it's so nuanced and difficult to set up why that conversation and my decisions and actions then were important. My perspective of that time has changed over the decades. I wish that I made a stronger stand then but I felt that I needed to navigate tricky waters at that time, at 20.
@@WitnessUnderground😢
I am 48 years old. My father kicked me out at 7 because I started acting out and refusing to go to meetings. The only other time he tried to contact me was when I was a young mom with two kids of my own. He called me; we had no relationship so I was naturally suspicious. I said to him, “I’m glad you called… but if this is about you trying to witness to me, I don’t believe in your “truth” and never will.” He ended the call and never tried again. I was never allowed any relationship with my half brothers and sister as we were growing up so they’re lost to me too…
The shunning is real.
💔🫂
I feel your pain. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
7 or 17?
Scott, I left Christianity going on two years ago and I genuinely connected with your story. Last year, I did my own un-baptism type thing and the peace I felt afterwards was… profound. I totally understand the shunning thing because I came out in spring 2022 to my mother and younger sister. I haven’t talked to my mom since and my little sister is like those other family members where it’s hit or miss if I get a text. The pain of suddenly not being enough for them is soul crushing and I understand that emotional weight you were feeling. I’m so sorry that you have and still feel that pain from the shunning but I am so happy that you have found your passion in making this film. I wish you luck in all your endeavors! Blessed be. ❤
I left 30 years ago and would highly recommend tailored psychotherapy which I had back then and more recently, 'Ambivalent Grief' counselling to deal with the loss of people who are still alive. It really helped. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
i send you positive vibes
As a former, non LDS, salt lake resident…. The statue he is referring to is what we called space Jesus. I believe it is the visitors center. When I was living there the bottom floor had full sized dioramas. A lot having to do with converting the natives and how happy they were🫤 it’s oddly creepy and surreal.
excellent interview..thank you both.. my husband an i were in the religion for over 20 years.. neither of us grew up it but we became members after "studying" for 2 years.. we left about 7 yrs ago after we read the Guardian newspaper article about JW relationship with UN (their wild beast).. and that led us down a very very difficult path of discovery. What is so interesting abot this is that our first thought was disbelief and so our first phone call was to the branch office of JW.. i made the call and all i heard was "we don't discuss information from apostate sources"..when i said "but this newspaper the Guardian is not apostate...in fact it has often been quoted in WT magazines" and he simply responded with the same verbage over and over like he was a robot and was not processing anything i said.. That was a huge red flag for me.. So i called the "wild beast" then UN and they were so open and honest about everything..had a great conversation and learned a lot ..they answered every question i had and gave me further resources on their website.. THAT is how questions should be handled (as opposed to WT evading the truth and simply refusing to answer questions).Anyways we had to leave after discovering the truth about the religion.. We had a crisis of conscience and had to leave for the sake of truth.. we are not officially disfellowshipped or disassociated but we are shunned.. such a traumatic experience. Like the letter/email Scott received from his family member..they SAY they love you, but what distorted thinking that is!!!.. When another person does not FEEL what you call LOVE, it is NOT love. When my mother disciplined me when i was younger, she never stopped talking to me for the rest of my life.. she COMMUNICATED with me openly and honestly and i learned.. she NEVER shunned me ( thankfully none of my family was ever involved with the religion but some of my husband's family is)..My husband and I remain believers in God and the Bible, but certainly do not force anyone to believe as we do. We are happy to befriend others who think differently than we do because we do not ever want to fall into the trap again of believing that we have all the answers ..we believe we can learn a lot from others who think differently than we do.. it helps us to remain critical thinkers.. i believe that humility is one of the best teachers and if we cultivate this quality, we can forever learn new things. . and sometimes these new things can change our way of thinking and our beliefs and this is nothing to fear.. love and joy to all..
Thank you for sharing. I’m happy both you and your husband left together and had the open mind to keep looking into things!
Oh my goodness, can you say a little more about JWs and the UN? I grew up in it and I knew the UN to be monstrous - are you saying that there is some underground dealings between them?
Wow I left 30 years ago and wrote a book about it and I didn't even think to look into the UN thing. I only found out about it recently!! We all leave for different reasons though, even my siblings who luckily also left. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Thank you for continuing to give a platform for all ex cult members. This can starve the abusive organizations.
🤞❤️
Same! I agree. Shelise and team are doing an amazing job. I'm so glad that we were able to make something together with our aligned goals of standing up against abuse.
I knew a family whose mom had joined the Jehovah's Witnesses while their kids were older (ages between 10 and 18 years old). Because of this, they would celebrate "Family Days" the day after thanksgiving, the day after Christmas, the day after Halloween, etc. So they still had the experiences they were familiar with, but without the religious connection. It's interesting to hear that it was a common practice to just have random gift days.
Better than celebrating pagan BS I guess.
I'm having major flashbacks to when I lived with a heavy metal band. They practiced in the basement, under my room. I loved going to their concerts and jam sessions. And I really miss the drummer. We were great friends. Bitter sweet for sure. Music gets under your skin and transforms you. Thank you for sharing!
Such conditional love! What a pity the JW can’t handle any sort of difference - no birthdays, no musicians, no LGTB, etc. What a colorless unhappy life.
It really is stifiling in their world.
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Hello, I was born in 1975 to newly converted JW parents. My dad was and elder, my mom was mentally ill. I was taken out of school and pioneered at 15, and attended pioneer school at 16. I was an over achiever. I got married at 19, and separated and disfellowshipped at 26. My life have been ravaged by this cult. Thank you for telling your story!! ❤
Shunning is evil
I know young witnesses and i always encourage them to secretly maintain a community of friends and not to turn your backs on your non JW families because once you make a mistake, they strip you of everything because your whole life is wrapped up in the church.
We have a forgiving God but JW church elders are not...
Scott, we have similar backgrounds in some ways. I grew up with that skater culture in the 90’s here in Chicago, going to shows, parties, and having adventures. Exploring art & philosophy with friends. Music was everything. It is still the essence of life in our house. Now my daughter is a bass player in a punk band, and has an impressive & thorough music education from my husband and I. 😊 Your story has me trying to imagine what that would have been like in the confines of a cult that stifles creativity, discourages natural curiosity, and demonizes art & exploration. Not only is that sad to imagine, and I’m so sorry you went through that, but it makes it that much more amazing how you fought to preserve your mind & spirit despite all the obstacles and push back. You’re a badass. 🤘🏼
He's amazing isn't he! I wasn't so lucky as him and was fully immersed till 32. But I've made up for it since then for sure with writing and music. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Catching you a day later. My kids’ godmother is an exJW who was raised with such inconsistencies, the family would have “giving day” the last week of December and a big family dinner the Saturday after Thanksgiving and no birthday presents BUT she was allowed to live in her parents’ basement and raise her daughter with full family support even when she was disfellowshipped for teen pregnancy!
That’s absolutely true. I was a JW for 29yrs and I used to say the high school I graduated in 16yrs ago was going to be my house in the so called “New System.” We would openly talk about peoples houses or who we would want to marry in the New system who had been resurrected like Marilyn Monroe etc
My high school ran a small daycare as an elective. One of the children in the daycare was a JW. We always took him outside for the pledge of allegiance. One day we forgot and the poor boy started crying. I couldn’t believe how upset it made him. That happened in 1990 and I still remember that incident.
Scott, your story was so sincere. Thank you for being ok with being vulnerable about the hard parts. I can't wait to hear about how well your documentary is going. It is so needed. The more we tell about our experiences, the more we can push for legislation on coercive control. It is the most anti-God and the worst human-to-human interaction to manipulate someone into something they would never do as a free-thinking being. Isn't it amazing, whether we believe or not, that God gives us free will, something the cults and high demand organizations do not. Well done, Shelise, again, as always.
Thanks Cara! We're in our first big push to get these stories out into the world.
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
I was taught the same things in my strict religious upbringing. Minus the birthdays and holiday stuff. The ominous judgment day is very destabilising and traumatic
Trauma is the word. I found proper tailored psychotherapy very helpful. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Another enlightening interview with our lovely, thoughtful and insightful Shelise and such a wonderful guest Scott. I am so sorry for the awful experiences he had with emotional abuse from beloved family members. It is heartbreaking and so utterly pointless to miss having such an intelligent, kind, focused and talented man as a family member. Probably thousands watching this sent their love to him, wishing him to know they would treasure him as a son, brother, nephew or cousin if they could. It is inspiring how he pushed back against the educational/intellectual abuse also to learn, question and build his skills to free others from a prison of ignorance. Sending best wishes and appreciation 😊❤
Thanks for coming on and sharing your story! I can't wait to see the film!!
If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Shelise the sheer number of interviews you've been doing is absolutely incredible. Thank you and C2C for all the good you're doing 🫶🏻
Can confirm the creepy wax museum!! I used to have to hang out there with my younger siblings/cousins when the adults were in the temple. 😂
I was raised in a secular household, and I’m grateful for that. However, I was intellectually curious about religion. A friend of mine in high school was JW, and she never proselytised at all, but I did borrow one of her books to read. It didn’t make a lot of sense to me, and I’m now an atheist, but this channel is opening my eyes to how toxic some religions can be. 😢
My favorite part was when Scott mentioned his baptism and his grandparents are like, "it's so important" & he's like, "is it?" Very funny. Thanks for being vulnerable during this interview, Scott.
"You want me to lie?" outch, that was a hard hit lmao. I know it is actually not funny but I can't stop thinking about the probably dumbfounded reaction of the adults there. Also smart at a young age if you could see that already back then, Scott.
In my personal experience all of the “experiences” are at the very least “tweaked” to either sound more impressive or “adjusted” to fit whatever narrative was on their agenda at the time. I remember the discomfort (& emotional distress) of a friend of mine who was interviewed on the “benefits of being single” at a convention, she desperately wanted to be married, she hated being single (so asking her to do the interview was essentially a massive slap in the face). She wasn’t allowed to talk about how much international travel she had done because it wasn’t for the benefit of the religion, but that was the only actual benefit since married woman still do all the things in the religion single women do.
Yeah he is one smart cookie! I love working with him on the core team. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
This is brilliant! I was married to someone who's mother was a JW....The coldness because you was or not interested...lots more too...I am away from all that now.....Good luck to all leaving a cult situation. Xxx❤❤
I'm so happy to see that there are channels like this now for people. I miss my mother. I miss my father. I miss my entire family and everything I ever knew. More than I can even express this lifelong pain. Make no mistake ...Jehovah's witness is a CULT. When you leave at 19 your whole world is gone and everyone abandons you. You don't even need to commit a real bad sin ... if you simply don't want to be a Jehovah's witness your world your family everything is GONE. Truth. I know. I'm Catholic now and even though I live a Christian life, this is ironically even worse than being inactive.... Anyone who leaves Jehovah's witness and converts to Catholicism is.....you know 😢
Yeah I can imagine, it's like being a heretic which would be the Catholic term for it I guess. I hear ya. I left 30 years ago and am shunned. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I’m an ex jehovah witness. I have been shunned by my mom n half brother, also my husbands dad is shunning him as well. This cult has truly torn my family apart
I hear ya! Mine has shunned me for 30 years...If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Side note, Scott has a GREAT voice. He should have his own podcast just so we can hear his voice 😆 PS I know I'm old because I wanted to say he should be on the radio.
😂 he does have a great voice!
You can hear more of my relaxing voice on the Witness Underground podcast.
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
Yeah we called him 'Sexy Scott' after this amazingly seductive interview :)
Scott,
You have the eloquence, knowledge, history, and experience to continue sharing your story. I can see you being a guest speaker with TED Talks. Follow your dreams,
new pathways, and heart to a brighter and more rewarding future. Live in the moment and should an afterlife be a part of our lives, I'm sure you will be included. Cheers!
Darryl
My parents and little brother are JWs. I left the cult in 2015. My parents soft shun me (they keep contact because I have the grandkids) My little brother currently does not have any association with me. He’s fighting glioblastoma and still won’t spend time with me or talk to me and hasn’t in 8 years. My biggest fear is that he will die and I won’t get to spend any time with him before then or be able to tell him I still love him and miss him. 😢
I hear ya. Much love and hugs xxx
Sending love and hope for reconciliation with your brother soon ❤
ugh I am sorry to hear that. Relating as I've been shunned by my parent for 30 years. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
As a Pagan, it's nice to know that birthdays are ours too!
JW is something I never knew much about despite having a cousin that converted.
My husband and I found Waking Life in a Haiti back in the day. Still one of my top favorites!
They believe every holiday is pagan. Which they all do stem from pagan origin. Weirdest thing ever when I went for their communion/Passover or whatever they call it. And no one is taking it. Just passing it around. I was like wth is going on here?? I studied for a year. When they tried to say I had no soul, I was done.
@@tonyaperfect4280Growing up in the BibleBelt it was normal to be told I was going straight down at least weekly....
Thank you so much for this interview and speaking out. I have cousins whose parents joined the Jehovah witnesses when they were young but old enough to experience the loss of not being able to celebrate Christmas and birthdays anymore. I had no idea this religion (cult) was so unhinged! One of the 4 kids is estranged from the family and one ended up in jail at one point. They’re all middle age now and none of them practice it as far as I know.Their father died several years ago and their mother finally left it behind though I don’t really know why.
If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I know it’s hard but it sounds like you’ve found your voice and found the strength early on. Good on you! I no know you never really get past the shunning. I grew up in the south with a southern Baptist preacher for a father. I was shunned by him when I left the church. We made peace right before he passed. I know it’s grim right now but never give up hope!
Shelise, please check out the JW children’s indoctrination series Caleb and Sofia. It’s Pixar quality animation but the lessons for kids are so grotesque and twisted.
I can't watch the Caleb and Sofia content at all. It came years after I left but it has the slow, triggering pace with all of the frustrating mind-numbing, manipulative angles that are so JW. Thanks for your comment! - Scott
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ugh really? I can't even bear to take a look at that, I'm sure I would get triggered despite having left JWs 30 years ago! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
When my Mother died, I was pressured to not attend the service in the Catholic church. I said, "I will be going to support my Father." I was always considered "spirituality weak" which means you will be soft shunned. (Only associated with at the Kingdom Hall)
I left 30 years ago and hadn't heard the term "soft shunned' before. I disassociated myself just so I kept my sense of dignity :) If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I came across this video and thought to myself, Id love for you to hear my story.
I grew up as a JW. My mother was one. She was married to my step dad who was not a believer.
From the age of eight to seventeen, we faithfully went to every meeting, door to door every Saturday and Sunday. As well as all assemblys.
My mother was a very violent person. She was very abusive to me.
But despite the relationship, I did as my mom said. I continued to go to meetings. I was very involved in the meetings. Even were part of the assemblies. If I wasnt on stage reinacting something, I was working the food lines.
At 16 I got baptized. But everything changed at 17.
My mom often got mad over nothing. I dont even recall what upset her this particular day. But she told my dad to go get the belt and looked at me and said to drop my pants and wait for it.
Well , that didn't happen. I got up , called my aunt and she came and got me. I took what I could, and I never turned back.
A week being gone, my mom showed up at the high school, crying and begging that I come home. I think she was more concerned about what the people in the congregation would think.I just expressed my love for her, but the abuse I cant take anymore and so at the end of the year I went to live with my dad and finish school.
So graduation came. My mom showed up. It was that day she found out I had been spending weekends preparing for Army. That June after graduation I would be flying east coast to do Basic Training. So she immediately told me that she would be letting the elders know. That following week I was notified that I was disfellowshipped.
Bear with me.....
So I joined. And later on I got married, and had a son. Sadly, I went from the abuse of my mom, into the hands of a man who did the same.
I decided to come back home. Just raise my kid. I didnt know at the time I was pregnant with my daughter. I was on the pill. So when I found out I was shocked. And when I had told her dad....well he promised that things would be better and that he would come to where I was and be the man and father he needed to be.
So like a fool, I let him back. But the beatings resumed and I finally filed for divorce.
My mother would say Lisa, come back to the Kindgom Hall. Get reinstated. We can all be together again. So thats what I did.
I didnt have a car at the time. In snow, and in rain, I went to every meeting. Pushed the stroller with my son as I carried my baby in my stomach. No one ever stopped to offer me a ride. They just stared and drove on by. This continued for months.
So time had passed.My ex was living with a friend. I was working, raising the kids. I was trying to get back in....
And in 1989, I get a call from my doctor, who had been my doctor as a kid. He called to say that both my husband and I needed to see him right away. It was concerning my ex husband. I told him that we were no longer married...but he couldnt stress enough the importance.
So I go pick him up and we head to the doctors.
Finally after 45 min, we were taken back. And the doctor explained that while my husband was in the hospital for pneumonia, he noticed signs of something much bigger....he had been tested and was found to have full blown AIDS.
Pure panic hit me. I had two kids. This guy was shooting up drugs for years and seven of those years I spent with him.
We lived in a small town. Everyone knew everyone.
I lost my job. I lost the daycare for my kids.
No one wanted to check my groceries out.
My house was egged.
There were many death threats.
I had to move.
So I told my mom I was leaving but would continue to work on reinstatement in the other town. And I did just that. And eventually I was let back in.
So one day, I am at the Kingdom Hall. I got up and used the bathroom. Well as I was in the stale, I hear two sisters talking about me. One said to the other, watch that you dont sit on the seat. The lady that is disfellowshiped has AIDS. I just couldnt believe what I was hearing.
Well there was a sister there that I had gotten close to....and I asked her about it. Well when my mom came up and met with a few sisters , who later decided to go out in service....she told them about my history.
I had asked my mother to not say a word. And yet she did. She told the whole car group. And they all treated me like a had the plague.
I finally dimissed myself from the Hall. I was done. I lived my whole life being abused by this woman. She went behind my back and betrayed me. She gossiped. She lied. And for years after that, I was so hurt and so angry that any relationship I had with God, it was done for me.
I have to say that today, I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All that time, I never felt any sort of love or support. These people just judged and were mean and nasty. They pushed me away. And if wasnt for being saved two years ago.....hell would have been my destonation.
They are not our judges.....theres only one. That is God.
There are many stories I have of sexual abuse through them. And the lies they cover up to hide them.
Those times were the hardest for me. My husband later died in 92....in my arms. I watched this man rot to death.
No family was there to offer any help or support.
The Senator of our state actually heard of my issues and helped us out.
But looking back.....the only one who watched out for me was God. I should be dead by now. You dont live and have sex with someone for seven years, with AIDS and not get it yourself......thats GOD right there.
Take it from me, Ive seen alot in my life and have been badly bruised by it. But i would not have survived it with out Jesus in my life. Thank you for those who take the time to read this. This is my testimony.
Wow! Thanks for sharing. You have gone through quite a bit.
Great story! You totally struck a cord with me when you said that you don't like to share that you're an ex-JW bc people automatically think differently of you. I, too, have had that happen, and it feels terrible. Thanks for sharing, and good luck on wrapping up the documentary! 👍
My adopted dad won't let it go and introduces me as his "JW" daughter. I hate that.
Yes sometimes they think you are a freak . I never mention my “ past life “ unless it comes up .
Funnily enough I 'played the victim' for a while and told my story to all my friends and boyfriends over the years....then after them constantly saying I should write a book about it, I did and it was a massive release for me, took me 13 years though, was heavy! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Scott younare indeed different and different is the best thing to be. Different is living your authentic life. You are brave, you are profound, you are a visionary. You are helping people find ways to heal and in turn, still healing yourself. Big, big love and light for you.!!❤
He's great isn't he! I was his first interview back in 2019 for my book. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Well done, so much compassion from a man who experienced extreme spiritual abuse.
Thank you so much! I appreciate you calling it what it is, extreme spiritual abuse. Abuse in all of it's many forms needs to be exposed.
If you want to support, it's the Last Days for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live.
Exactly, he embodies the very thing they 'espouse' but don't do. Show love. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Scott, thank you for your bravery in sharing your experience and being vulnerable emotionally on the interview. The empathy you felt for others in LGBTQ and in the shunning really struck my heart too. Keeping our hearts open is key in life. 💛
Thanks for writing. I'm glad that it makes an valuable impact. It's not easy to get that vulnerable. Thanks to Shelise for creating the space for it gently and with excellent intentions. I feel Witness Underground the film and Pocast are very aligned in practice and mission with Cults to Consciousness.
What a gentle beautiful person. ❤❤❤
He is but he rocks too! I just listened to his old band and it was good rock! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I must have worked with bad JW's. Although they all proclaimed to not participate any holidays, birthdays, etc., they were always in line for food & birthday cake when we celebrated at work.
I'm surprised they didn't tell on each other and get punished
heh heh great! I wish I had been more of a rebel like him. Only left at 32! Mind you I've been making up for it every since! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
I remember being a girl of 11 years old and hearing that JWs didn't celebrate christmas or birthdays. I thought these kids were weird. Yet as a fundamentalist muslim I went on to do the same. It was okay for me, as an adult, but I didn't realise at the time how othering this was for my children, who had no choice in the matter.
I recently stopped studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, and they threatened my life when I told them I didn't want to keep studying w them. "Jehovah is going to take your life." 🤣
🤦 really?
@@Optimismus53 yup, as crazy as it sounds. They were very manipulative and sent me all these gifts for my daughter and I when I first started studying with them. The woman, who was in her 60's would break down crying during many of our study sessions, and her son who was a total jerk towards her and mentally ill, was the one who sent me threats after I chose not to continue with the studies. Thankfully, study sessions were over the phone and they live in Cali, and I'm all the way in NY lol
This is the first ex JW experience most similar to my own so I'm very glad he told his story. Thank you so much for coming on and talking about how harmful shunning really is, and thanks for all your work. It's truly amazing
I've always felt a bit guilty about that time I brought cupcakes to my daughter's grade one class for her birthday, and told the little JW boy that it wasn't for a birthday. It was just a happy day. AITAH?
That moment may have brough him a joyous moment that sticks with him for the rest of his life and he might break free partially because of that feeling.
Good luck with the film! Definitely want to see it ❤
Great. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Burning letters can be so cathartic.
Your experience in the Jehovah's witness is so similar to mine in the cult I grew up in (World wide church of god)... it's like listening to old cult friends of mine. It's really strange to me in a way and comforting. Shunning people was also done where I grew up in... it's always shook me... even if I never experienced it. I really wish you all the very best in life and thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. ❤✌
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Whoa!!! What an amazing interview, I hope you meet your fundraising goals!! I think this audience will come out in force for your cause. Shelise you amaze me with your empathy ❤
Thank you. If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
It is so relieving to see someone who tears up when talking about important things, things that matter, things that hurt. I'm not the only basket case, yay! :)) On a serious note, I loved what you, Shelise, said about a possibility of having completely different experiences with the same church, same religion, same literally everything. It's rather obvious, but when you put it into words, it really strikes you as very profound. Same can be said about not hating on a specific religion, but rather its specific practices and tresspasses agains humanity.
Scott, you're a very brave and wise guy! It takes true wisdom to liberate yourself of all the dogmas imposed on you and venture on the journey of self-discovery. Many of us, sadly, never find the courage to do that in our lives. I wish your film and all of your work every success they and you deserve!
Thank you for such a thoughtful comment!❤️
Thank you so much @HelenaVanCity I like to convey to people, that we successfuly navigated cult mind control. We gain a skeptical and informed worldview that is an amazing and useful skill to have in life. I wish my never-cult member friends could have what we get from this early hard-earned education. I see so many falling into the same traps and they don't think when I warn them of what they are getting wrapped up in has any validitity. Self-discovery is worth all of the time, effort, and attention.
If you want to support, it's the Last Days for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live.
When my mom died (Christian) my dad had reached out to an old coworker (JW) for some help navigating work pension stuff (this man’s wife died a month earlier). A couple of weeks later he started getting calls from random JWs checking in on him and eventually trying to preach. He would also get watch tower stuff in the mail. I found this to be so predatory and icky because they were taking advantage of a man who just lost his wife (very cult like behaviour). His friend would have had to gone to his Kingdom Hall and tell them to call him and stuff. I’m all for people wanting to check in on my dad but not with ulterior motives. I’m so grateful that I grew up with parents who did not push religion on me. My mom’s church didn’t make her shun her kids because we didn’t want to go. They didn’t make her shun her sister for being gay. There is even a gay man that goes to her church and was never turned away.
Sorry for the novel comment! Thank you for all the hard work you do shedding light on these topics.
Thank you for sharing! Yes, it is so wrong to do that. We have heard from other interviews that JWs troll the obituaries and specifically target families who have lost someone.
Classic JW behaviour. As a young child I recall how weird we found it that these strangers started to try and become very familiar with the mother of a little boy who was run over. To be dealing with grief and then have these pests coming to the door was truly uncomfortable and shocking. I did not know why it was wrong but I knew that it was. They are underhand.
To have to fish for men like that says a lot.😢
Love love how much empathy you have for your guests
Would really like to see you interview Davida Kelley. Her story and that of her brother breaks my heart ❤
Thank you so much! I’ll look into her
Oh! Children of God. We have another woman from that group coming on soon. She could be a good person to have as well.
omg his voice...i can listen to him all day
You can hear more of his voice on the Witness Underground podcast.
Please share the Witness Underground campaign while it's live. We're in the Last Days! Link is in the video description.
I'm a former JW elder, I use the expression "familial abandonment".
Great interview Scott! As an EXJW totally relate 🥺, so sorry you went through this and so happy you are out of that cult 👏
And…look where you are now and what you have done with your life, not just for yourself but others too!🙌🥰♥️🥰🙌
Really proud of you Scott! Proud of all of us that came out of JW’s along with all others in any high control religion…and helping others to get out of the ‘Doomsayers’!!♥️
If it’s only 144 thousand then after all the years past heavens got to be full by now so isn’t all the JW’s wasting there time? Wtf
Yes, that's a good point, but nothing actually makes sense with them. They used to say that if u were born in 1914, you would never die. Then that changed. It is a cruel, heartless joke.
Reading the Bible, the 144,000 refers to the remnant of Jews, not Gentiles.
I'm glad my church encourages research. God's law, not man's law (Biblical), is what I live by. Freedom is the key. 1John 4:7-8. God is love.
I'm so glad I found this channel. It's so informative and enlightening.
It's a two-tiered salvation system. The elite uber JW's are the 144k that rule as kings in Heaven over the millions of run-of-the-mill JW's that will live under them on earth. Most JW's hope to live on a paradise earth.
I’m always happy to see a new episode! I stop watching the video I am part way through to come watch your videos.
So do I. ❤
Great video. Your guest is lovely, amazing and I love their punk-rock history.
I had a friend in fourth grade whl was JW. She told me it was her birthday and i got her a gift.. apparently she told a couple of other people and they got her gifts. Her mom was not happy and made a huge deal about it to the school. This was in the same week I had gone to her home for a group project. Her mom wouldn't let me use the washroom. I got a UTI. My mom lost her mind once she found out. Like WHY even let me come over? I wonder how that girl is now. I do hope she is living a happy life.
Stil making my way through Scott! I love it!
If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx
Omg finally another JW video from Cults to Consciousness!!!!
yay! If you want to support as part of the counter-culture, it's the Last Days (to coin a term), for Witness Underground. Link is in the video description. Please share the campaign while it's live xxx