Raising a Child as a Former Jehovah's Witness
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Modern day struggles of a millennial mom who was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but wants a different life for her child. We discuss the moral compass absent of God or punishment, embracing and celebrating self, and letting go of shame that stifles one's voice. Enjoy this vulnerable account of Brooke Chanel's story!
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Chapter Markers:
00:00:00 Intro
00:03:14 Feeling "different" as a child. No Birthdays or Holidays
00:14:29 Requirements of a JW
00:18:46 Trying to decide at a young age if baptism was want she wanted
00:23:52 Brooke's life as a JW teen
00:26:21 Isolation and lack of emotionally safe spaces
00:29:53 She wants different things for her child
00:36:27 Her pursuit of "wordly" things
00:39:26 How she feels on the other side of JW
00:47:02 Motherhood after being a JW
00:50:50 Raising a moral child without religion?
00:55:04 Text Ashley for free intuitive messages
00:58:21 Linda, Listen
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Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
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Raised-in former JW here as well... when I was in kindergarten a girl in my class was handing out invites to her birthday party on the school bus. I was so terrified to even accept it because of the deeply ingrained fear of displeasing Jehoba and fear of how my mom would react. I tried to refuse it, told her I didn't want it, THEN, when she insisted I take it, I ripped up the invitation right there in front of her 😣😣 TO THIS DAY I carry guilt over that. And I truly thought "Whew, now God will be happy with me!" Sick, sick indoctrination.
😢
The fear they instill is insane. Decades after leaving and I still have the worse nightmares where I wake up in frozen in fear and have talk myself down. The lack if social skills amongst many other things that they stripped from my child. I hope you have empathy for your little self. No one can understand like those who were brought up in from a young age. I'm angry about it sometimes, but work on being loving to myself and others not allowing them to have the power over me any more, but it's really hard even decades later. There was no recovery from it at that time. Stuff it, move on and wonder why you do the things you do? Thanks to Shelise and people like her, we can now see we are not alone.
That's so sad, but you shouldn't feel guilty about it because that was what you were taught/felt like you had to do, you were young and didn't know better then, but I know its easier said than done ❤
The fear is real , I couldn't even learn the Christmas song or stand in the POA
I'm sorry you still feel guilty about that, though I understand why you would. I'm sure if the other little girl's feelings were hurt, she understands why it happened now. It's so sad how they isolate you as a kid and stop you from being friends with people. It was sad for me having JW friends but never really getting to be close with them.
I worked with a Witness. Whenever we celebrated a coworker’s birthday, my boss would get a cake of their liking. This woman loved cake and sweets, however, she was the only one who wouldn’t have a piece for fear of being caught. One day when we were celebrating someone’s bday, my boss said to her, you are such a good worker and for that, I want to give you this piece of cake to show my appreciation. She ate the cake and enjoyed every bite. It’s really funny how the conversation can twist to whatever you want it to. I’m glad she enjoyed that cake. BTW she’s been disfellowshipped Since for falling in love with a non JW and is now celebrating everything and everyone’s birthday ❤️
Thanks for sharing! I think most religions boil down to semantics…makes no sense that God would care so much about semantics.
Strange. My sister got married to a worldly and she did not get disfellow , maybe she committed fornication. I was raise at JW and I see lot of ex JW confused about their teachings. Even listening to this girl. I guess many JW interpret their doctrines all wrong
It must depend on the kingdom hall because my sister and my niece both married a non-JW and were not punished at all. My sister was shunned when she divorced her first husband, though. Her second marriage ended the shunning. This cult is truly bananas.
@@Leslie_KnopeI married outside of the faith and was never disfellowshipped. I just faded out over time.
@cassandrasmom Good for you for leaving. My sister and her kids are far too brainwashed to ever leave. Even after being shunned by her entire kingdom hall and her kids, my sister still won't give up on this BS. Although, I'm guessing if she leaves, my nieces will stop speaking to her for good. Just evil.
I left 3 years ago and currently pregnant with my first child. I’m actually looking forward to do a lot of things with my daughter that I didn’t get to do growing up. She will do all the milestones, celebrations, extra curricular activities and grow into her own person. I don’t want her to feel shame for having big life goals and wanting to be the best version of herself. She will be a good human by choice and not out of fear or coercion. 😊
Amazing to hear!!
I relate to this so much! When I had my third child we were finally able to celebrate and do all the things guilt free and it was soooooo fun! You’re going to have so many special memories with your baby! Congratulations on your pregnancy and on getting out of the cult ❤
"This is who I am as a person. Please love me although I may have disappointed you."
That spoke to the deepest part of my soul.
🥲
❤
The holidays thing.. in first grade I had a girl who was JW in my class. When we would color Christmas pictures and make decorations she'd sit in the hall. I remember that Valentine's Day I felt so awful. She sat alone in the hall on all holiday class celebrations.. I asked to go and sit with her. She was so happy. I hope she got out. I've always been an empath so when I saw her walking out of the classroom as we were exchanging Valentine's.. my heart broke. She was such a sweet girl
Thanks for sharing!! That’s so hard. I’m happy you were able to make her feel a little better
You probably have no clue what your kindness meant to that little girl. I was her. That even though she was so different and separated from the other children, that she was told she would die, have her eyes pecked out by birds, have flaming brimstone burn her and her family because she drew some hearts, she felt that someone in this world accepted her. You can never imagine how it feels and what it does to be isolated like that. Thank you for your love and kindness rather than mocking hate because you are different. I'm saying this with tears in my eyes and thanking you from that little girl.
Aaww that's so sad it was nice she had you to sit with, school can be hard enough anyway let alone having to feel lift out like that 😢❤
Same, in first grade there was a sweet little boy whose family was JW. He wasn’t allowed to celebrate his birthday or participate in any holiday fun stuff we did. I always felt so sad for him. It seemed cruel then and still does now.
But if you look up the roots of these holidays , I'm pretty sure many religions would stop celebrating it.
I was a born in JW, and my husband & I left about 14 years ago. Our sons were pretty young still, and I am beyond grateful that we could raise them like "normal" kids. They got to go to the prom, have a girlfriend, have big birthdays and Christmas, and go to college! It all still feels a little strange at times, that is for sure!
The hardest part for me was being able to make all our own decisions. I spent 39 years of my life being told what my heart dictated to me was "treacherous" and unreliable. As a result, the second guessing that we were making good decisions was a challenge! Spending so many years turning off your intuition makes it hard to trust yourself.
Very good interview, as always!
But you really believe in Xmas? Do you find it biblical?
@@sunnyeyes522 not at all. I think it has nothing at all to do with Jesus. I view it 100% as a secular holiday. I love all the lights and decorations, music, and buying presents for people I love.
@@jodigirl6610 Exactly that's why I appreciate JW teachings because I did search on my own. And compare to many all mostly all . They have a lots of things that has a lot of common sense. Especially the burning in hell thing other believes. Why would Jah have us burn eternally. Does not make sense. And they don't vote. I don't blame them. The politicians are all corrupt.
I was a pagan witch practicing came to Christ and refuse to celebrate those holidays as much as possible jws do have a lot right but are also sooo deceived at the same time
JWs have just as much as perverted version of Christianity as Christiandom, Mormans, as Catholics...
Her saying that her first memory was turning 5 and her mom not making a big deal about it hit me so hard I cried… my name is Jessica I also was born into the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the first real memory I had was turning four.. I can remember it so vividly, I was watching Saturday morning cartoons in my living room and told my mom “I’m 4 today!” And she looked at me and said “it is your birthday isn’t it?” And it crushed me, but I couldn’t even be upset because I wasn’t supposed to care about that… I’m 33 and still hurting from it… still questioning my value… I am so sorry you had to endure the same pain.
Seriously, also ex-JW and my bf doesn't get why birthdays are so important to me. It's like 'this is a part of my life i never got and i need that to matter to someone'. I hope your next birthday is better than your last. Treat yo' self, because you deserve it.
Whenever I hear your interviews, time flies by and I’m ok with it going on even longer, it flows effortlessly. You have a wonderful gift, your energy is so zen.
Aww you made my day! Thank you so much! 🥰🥰🥰
I was born in the religion & felt exactly like she’s describing especially the choking part when speaking. At least in my experience I never believed in the cult. My earlier memories are my 5 years old self sitting at the “Kingdom Hall” & thinking to himself “this is all bullshit”
😂
Very good interview.
If anyone is curious here is some extra info on the topics discussed.
If an active Jehovah's witness celebrates a holiday they can be disfellowshiped (completely shunned) from the congregation.
The "celebration" of Jesus death was basically just another meeting (church service) with a sermon and the passing of bread and wine, so even though we got told it was a celebration it was pretty boring.
Sometimes I would get bullied by teachers and students for not celebrating birthdays and holidays, but others were kind and recognized it was not really my own choice and they tried to make me not feel excluded. But other JW kids would inform on each other if one of us celebrated anything at school, so we couldn't get away with it without getting in trouble. The same thing happened if we tried to date someone at school.
I felt constant guilt over things I did, and even just thinking about something that was deemed wrong brought guilt and shame.
That perfectionist mindset was constantly pushed and people would gossip about anyone who was not living up to the standard that we were being taught.
What she said about not having a voice was so huge! I remember censoring what I said to my therapist for fear she would think badly of Jehovah's witnesses because of me. If I said the "wrong" thing to a fellow JW I would get lectured and felt the threat of losing my relationships (family and friends) because of saying the wrong thing.
Once I woke up and stopped going to meetings and talked about my reasons everyone including my mother stopped having relationships with me. Thankfully I have connected with other exJW on Facebook so I had some support through that trauma and I have connected with my non JW family.
My listen Linda is, I was bought up by an atheist and certainly learned right from wrong. We don’t need a religion to understand the difference between being kind and ethical and being horrible to others. And the “reward “ is being able to be the type of person who is kind and thoughtful, so we learned to like ourselves. Just be as kind and respectful as possible.
Yaaaas! I approve of this Linda, listen 🙌
I was a JW from 3 on. I don't remember anything but that life as a kid. Growing up was confusing because my mom stressed education and self-sufficiency. She was an immigrant and a single mom after my parents divorced when I was 10. But the religion was hard core-women need to be married, follow headship (even as an adult, my little brother was asked about me, because I was single), and focus on marriage and pioneer service. It never felt natural. But I was so scared to lose my family (Mom) that I stayed until I was 31 before going PIMO for a year before leaving. Fortunately, my brother left before I did and it helped me to leave. I always felt put down as a woman. I was even accused of being gay, because I was independent, lived alone and made good money. No one would marry me unless I stopped being so masculine. I left and found a man who loves me for me, been married for almost 2 years. I had to heavily deprogram myself. Still do.
I totally feel this interview. I was raised as a JW (kind of watered down version) lol but elementary school/middle holiday parties sucked lol very dangerous for kids. I remember my 4th grade teacher was so nice she made every holiday something that I could participate in for example Christmas party would be called a winter party and we would have snowflake pictures and snowman pictures instead of Santa Claus and Christmas trees. I wish I could find her and thank her
As a Mom I taught my daughter morals,,values,but also about the real world and as a teen I won taught her about safe sex and if she drank at a friend's or a party,even though I didn't want her to, to Always call me to drive her no matter what time and I won't punish her because I'd rather have her alive. I was a young mother and I didn't forget what it was like to be a teenager. I wanted her to always talk to me and be open. SHE WAS, she even told me about her first kiss.
Oh my goodness. My baby girl is 12 and you give me hope. I never had a realationship with my own mother. I did everything she didn't do. It's really hard but I have hope ❤
I love how Brook integrates her past and present and the way she has a clear vision of the two worlds she lived in. She manages not only to see the evil that existed, but to integrate the good that she got from that past. Simply incredible.
I feel for you about the birthday cupcakes. My mom was a teacher and had some JW students over the years. It broke her heart that those kids were excluded because those cupcakes represented birthdays (as opposed to simply being a cupcake with friends). Some of the parents were okay with her making an alternative (such as a similar but non-themed craft and snack for the class' party), but some weren't. I can imagine how "othering" that would feel, especially as a kid.
As a teacher, I have only ever had JW kids twice, that I am aware of. Those years we just didn't celebrate any holidays at all and I put an emphasis on seasons instead: snowflakes for winter, flowers for spring, etc. I got some pushback from parents, but I stuck with it, precisely because I didn't want to exclude anyone. We also had issues with the pledge, as they won't stand or pledge and some kids would get upset and ask why they have to stand when the other students didn't. Now we no longer do the pledge as a district policy.
Being brought up in this religion, kept me socially isolated, and afraid to have any relationships with people outside the religion. Once you research the religion you see it for the high control cult it is.
🙏❤️
Hi there! Another exjw here. On the birthday thing, there were a couple reasons given to me when I was growing up.. First, it was considered pagan and “we don’t do things with pagan origins” (even though they do many common cultural things that have pagan origins). Second, at the only two birthdays mentioned in the Bible somebody died -> Bible presents birthdays in a negative light -> birthdays are bad. A third related reason is that they would say that no faithful examples in the Bible, including Jesus are mentioned as celebrating their birthday -> they probably didn’t celebrate their birthdays -> modern Christian’s shouldn’t celebrate theirs either (including Christmas)
There is a lot of this kind of reasoning in JW theology where you start with something from the Bible that sorta sounds like it could be applicable to something in modern times and then there’s a “therefore this, therefore this..” chain of reasoning that gets more and more strict/extreme until it finally reaches the modern JW stance on that particular issue.
May I also add that anything taking away "glory to Jehovah" is viewed as a bad thing. If you're celebrating yourself, you're not celebrating Jehovah i.e. not going out in service, not reading JW publications and approved Bible translation, and not praying. It's important to only participate in approved activities in the approved amount in order not to stray ☺️
I love the soap analogy. Some thing I always knew intuitively and that I later learned thru my job in behaviour therapy has a scientific backing is this:
strict parents raise sneaky kids.
You wanna keep them close and hold them tight, but if your boundaries are strict, especially if you go the "because I'm the parent and I said so" route, kids will eventually find a way to pursue their natural desire to explore and to express themselves regardless. But now, because they don't want their parents knowing, they put themselves at greater risk for getting into unsafe situations.
When a JW would come to my door, I ALWAYS ask them if they brought cookies. Of course, they say no. I tell them come back with a box of cookies and we will sit down have tea and talk. Not once did any of them come back. I did not think a box of cookies was too much to ask of them if they really wanted to save my soul.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That is honestly the best response I have ever heard! Direct and very loving might I add.
I don't think they're looking for people who want things for themselves 😅
@@kiwimid Not all for me, I would be willing to share. Not a lot to ask to save my soul and try to convert me to their cult.
I never open my door to these people. As it is the Mormons knock 5 times despite no response. I hate solicitors, most of all these cultists.
So in case of JW that feeling of standing out and being outcasted is what JW wants it's believers to have. If you feel excluded from other groups you feel stronger bound to your own group. It's to make you feel uncomfortable and unwanted in other groups so you will feel safe only within your own group.
Yes. The us vs them mentality
This is why I never raised my children in this Cult everything that you have said I’ve seen with other children and just wanted my children to have a normal childhood, have friends outside the cult, being able to show an interest in hobbies, or doing recreational activities like sports. I felt these kids being raised in this cult were living to much of a sheltered life.
One thing I think a lot of ex-JW kids leave out is that unlike Mormon culture or most churches, there is no special set of programs just for children. There is no primary. No Sunday school. No summer camp. No dances. No Girl Scouts or substitute Girl Scouts. No patriarchal blessings. No rites of growing up like communion or confirmation. Children are taught from a very young age that their salvation is dependent on being obedient and following every rule to the letter. My parent told me when I was 7 that she couldn’t intervene with Jehovah’s on my behalf. I was totally on my own. I got my first New World Translation of the Bible and watchtower subscription at that age and was expected to attend all those boring meetings just like an adult.
There were very few social activities that happened at the Kingdom Halls I went to. There was an occasional roller skating event and twice we did square dancing. And that was it. Now there are special cartoons for JW kids teaching them how to be unsociable at school, to endure the joylessness of having no friends and how to proselytize to your classmates.
It is an awful upbringing for a child. At least the Duggars celebrate holidays and birthdays.
I think the JWs don’t really have any use for children. Their whole schtick is selling publications. Children really aren’t good at that and their parents are supposed to dedicate themselves to service so parenting gets in the way of that. So, children’s needs and socialization aren’t even an afterthought with JWs.
Not all families see that “loophole” I was never baptized and am now called “apostate” and was told I was worse than disfellowshipped so she was very lucky to have family that was less crazy than mine is.
I remember around the time I left (2014) one of the elders had a talk and he said if someone was born in and was in their teens, not baptized and they decide this life isn’t for them, then association should be limited or even cut off and their family should start treating them as if they are a stranger
Gave me more motivation to just fade and start living my life when I heard that.
Not sure if that was already published info or what, I can’t remember lol nor do I care to look it up
Probably was an old hag without a life! I spoke to an elder never got those type of answers. Only elder old man who try to teach us their way! I knew better. I knew the mayority of them were not practicing the right advice . I was 13 I taught them! Even that 1975 thing I told them they were wrong.
Job’s kids actually celebrated “each their day”. I was born on 3rd of July, so the whole country celebrated with fireworks. When I joined the cult (for 4 years) in my late 30s I really felt deprived but it took YEARS to dump the guilt and have fun.
My very first prayer was while grieving my non-JW mom's recently and suddenly dead father, my grandpa who was a christian his whole life. He often read his bible and that side of the family was much more religious than my newly JW side of the family. My dad joined the Jehovah's Witnesses that year after his parents joined a few years prior. I wanted my grandfather to have a chance to get into heaven and I was taught that only JWs got into heaven and that only 144,000 were allowed in. I prayed repeatedly for weeks for my grandfather to be allowed to be +1 to make the number 144,001. Obviously as a 6 year old, I didn't understand the doctrine but that was the initial moment where I realized something was wrong with this religion, at 6 years old, and that was such a powerful moment for me that I forever saw the Jehovah's Witnesses through this unfair lens, that good people that I love will be killed by Jesus, or simply forgotten by god and never brought back to life and denied access heaven. That was the most painful thing to be told while grieving for the first time.
I don’t know what you believe in now (if anything) but I’m a Christian and I believe your Grandpa is in heaven. So I’ll pray for you and your family. Thank you very much for sharing your story- I watched the entire episode.
This year will be the first time ever celebrating the holidays with my daughter so her story really resonates with me
Thought about santa- my mom always described him as the "spirit" of the holiday the same way you get in the "spirit" "Santa is more a feeling than a person. He's embodied in images by Santa." And this made it so I still, to this day love stockings and it made it so I got to have "santa" without the "lie" I hope this makes sense!
I officially left/disassociated 1 May 2023. I’m glad nobody in mine or hubby’s family are JWs and interestingly I reconnected with an old friend who left the Borg 5 years ago. I’ve got some good “worldly” friends and I have experienced true love and support. I can’t wait to celebrate my daughters birthday and holidays.
That is true love that you show towards your son. My daughter who’s almost 6 is the reason for me waking up. I love her for her and there’s nothing she can do to make me love her less. I want her to feel supported and loved unconditionally. She can be herself.
Congratulations! 🎉 You made a wonderful gift to your daughter! My 10yo daughter's best friend is a jw and that's why I'm here, trying to figure out how to help her see life beyond jw... It's very hard and i realize our family is the only family they ever see outside the organization! So please celebrate yourself first and really acknowledge your courage ❤
The question of morality and religion has always been mind-blowing to me. I was raised atheist/agnostic, and I remember the first time other kids questioned me seriously about my religion. When I said "I just don't have one", the immediate reaction was "but then how do you know right from wrong? How do you not do horrible stuff?". My immediate thought (and it was a pretty unkind one, probably because I was a tween) was just "you guys only do good by others because you're afraid your god is going to punish you? You're awful people!". Obviously didn't say that to them, lol. But it was completely incomprehensible to me at the time, though now with more education I can understand the mindset of being raised very religious better. However I still think when it comes to adults saying that... Hey, it says more about them than about non-religious people that they seriously believe they would just be out here killing and maiming if they weren't living in fear of their god.
Thanks for featuring ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses on your channel. As a former born-in JW (FORTUNATELY NEVER BAPTIZED!!), I love that you are interested in finding common ground between cult survivors of other groups. I feel like many people still don’t understand how toxic JW religion is because they “seem so nice”. It was so confusing and alienating to be isolated whenever any kid had a birthday and then to be told by church leaders that it’s our responsibility to explain (even as a child) to other kids why we didn’t celebrate birthdays or other holidays, because this will help us spread the “Truth” to these children. It was almost impossible to make friends as a child. Not to mention we weren’t really allowed to have “worldly” friends either. So basically, school was kind of hell-ish, especially for sensitive children. Thanks, Shelise, even more for exposing the damaging effects of cults in general. It’s an issue that needs so much more attention. Like I said I was not even super-indoctrinated into the religion (never baptized and stopped attending church in my pre-teens or early teens), but the negative impacts and trauma of being born into a cult have infiltrated even my adult life in so many ways.
Thanks for sharing that! Yes, I’ve learned there are many commonalities between JWs and Mormons. But it’s more of a psychologically dangerous cult vs a physically dangerous one which is why most people don’t get the harms. Or see the harms.
Thank you for another enjoyable episode! ❤❤
In elementary school we had some JW families move into our district. They had to leave the classroom for all of our parties too. I asked the teacher why they had to leave and she told me it was their churches rule. I remember thinking why would a church care if you ate a cupcake or shared in fun with your friends
Thank you both for a wonderful interview.
Thank you so much for what you do! I was raised in a cult-like Christian religion and a broken home. In high school I turned mormonism. At the age of 20 I was baptised into and married in the pentecostal church. I ended up leaving that church as well and not ever getting into another. Your episode with Ashely Easter spoke to me as I have had some struggles lately and haven't trusted myself in a long time. Hearing Brooke mention having to retrain her brain from things she learned as a child was sooo relatable. I have been experiencing the same epiphanies lately. You, Ashely, AltWorldly, and a couple others are really helping me deal with the trauma, brain washing, and shame. Which in turn is helping me raise my child to be a healthier, happier person.
I swear I am binge watching liking every single video!!! So very interesting!!
Thank you for sharing that part about the block in your throat - I still struggle with that to this day and it feels good to hear your experience and I'm not alone in that
Brooke, I literally felt everything you said in this video. I am so proud of you.
Good Morning from Northern B.C Canada.. I been watching your interviews .. learning a lot and thank you for putting yourself out there and sharing. 😊
Brooke, I grew up mormon and I relate SO MUCH to your story. In SO MANY ways!! Right down to the feeling of having my throat blocked and not being able to speak my thoughts. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
Thank you so much for sharing your story and for your honesty.
This is the first exjw interview that made me cry. Because I related to this 100%. I have a young son and I felt the emotions Brooke was feeling. I want a healthy and safe upbringing for my son and I want him to be free to express himself to me. Great job ladies!!
I grew up JW third generation through both parents. Only finally left it last year at 41 y/o. Glad to have woken up, but it was so late in life. It's all so deeply ingrained in me. Still never celebrated any holidays (not counting buying myself a cupcake with a candle for my birthday). I "faded", which means that I just kind of stopped showing up so that I wouldn't have to be shunned by everyone I know, which is what happens when you leave more directly. That's disfellowshipping. She unfortunately really undersells the effects of disfellowshipping in this interview. "Worldly" just describes anyone who isn't a JW. We could be friendly with "worldly" people, but didn't want to establish close friendships with them. A disfellowshipped person is a former JW who committed a serious sin or who disassociated themselves from the org and we were not allowed to even say hi to them. And since we could only make friends inside the org that basically meant a disfellowshipped person would be totally and completely cut off from everyone they know.
It's a funny old world, I came into being a JW when I was 40, wish I had the upbringing that you had, I'm not zealous and I do envy those that are. I just find it very difficult to keep up with them. I never had any of my four children baptised because I believed it is up to them to make their own choice. My eldest daughter is far more spiritual than I am and I'm very proud of her.
@@xlaptopx And are you prepared to shun your own children if they decided to get baptized and then later left?
@@misterdoctor9693 Nope, definitely not, I've seen that happen. I'd bring them closer to me with love and kindness to work out just why they left. Here's a question... What would Jesus do if it happened to his kids? Would he shun them? No, I don't think so, he would likely love them and help them with kindness. Shunning people just makes them bitter and is not helpful at all.
@@xlaptopx Well, you signed up for a religion that tells you to do that and many, many JW parents do exactly that.
Your honesty and vulnerability in this is so amazing. My family is JW and I started in the church as a child but my father stopped going. I was fortunate to have a “normal” or sinful childhood with Xmas, birthdays. I always feel empathy towards the children. It’s so hard to imagine what you endured. Thank you both for sharing.
Great show, again!
Great interview!
You are an amazing interviewer, listening to your friends interview made me emotional because as a former JW I totally connected to her. She wouldn't an awsome mom. 👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Aww thank you, Susan! 🥰
I love this lady’s honesty!! I relate !
I was always told the rule for who is "anointed" is that if you have the slightest doubt then you are not. The anointed (144,000) have no doubt at all, supposedly, and that's part of being chosen. Also, by their logic, there are only literally 144,000 anointed but in reality there are many more than that who are claiming to be anointed. So who's lying? No one is allowed to question the anointed. It's like a self perpetuating problem due to them being a doomsday cult and not thinking ahead to when the member body would continue to grow. But don't ask them about this they will get mad
Sounds very confusing 😬 and messy
I'm trying to find an article that I screen shot from JW...Org...that stated that along with the apostates who are "mentally diseased"...some who partake of the emblems at the memorial..have mental problems aswell 😅😅😅
Thank you for sharing your story Mama! You are an amazing person and also amazing MOM!!! He is so lucky to have you and I’m sorry you didn’t get that love as a child but it’s going to fulfill your heart with the love and how you raise your son, I promise. My son, Bentley, is 9 and he is literally the most respectful, kind and has the biggest heart and loves EVERYONE & everything. Idk how I got so lucky to be his mom but I know he’s an amazing human being and will continue to be and I know your boy will be too!
She was so sincere, I can see it in her eyes. Wow, just so beautiful. No doubt in my mind that you're an amazing mother ❤
She is! I can attest to that 😁
My grandmother is a Jehovah’s Witness and of what I understand is that birthdays weren’t celebrated because one shouldn’t celebrate anything that isn’t about Jehovah.
Raised JW here, too. We were told to turn down birthday gifts and stuff. I never could keep track of how old I was because it wasn't taken into account. I was told we don't celebrate birthdays because it's idolatry of self, which is one of the deadly sins but don't quote me either. We had to even stand outside during the national anthem, every day being reminded how different we were, part of making sure that we knew we were different so that "The Truth" would be the safe space, but they weren't safe. Worse, people didn't understand. I had a teacher who knew I couldn't participate in holidays, but she told us to make these witches hats for Halloween decorations grade 5 i think? She didn't give me an alt option, so I took a bunch of purple paper and made the same hat shape hoping to avoid getting in trouble and she blamed *ME* for making the hat both the wrong colour (not black) and breaking the religious rules. Kids were pretty ruthless, too up until high school when i was leaving the religion.
My parents were both super abusive and the Elders swept a ton of abuse under the rug instead of getting myself or my siblings any real help. There was other abuses more directly tied to the religion as well that were rug swept, too. There were even known sexual offenders allowed to participate in our Kingdom Hall. It was always sort of hush-hush, we knew they weren't good people, but we as kids didn't have the details but definitely there was bad energy about them.
The unleavened bread on the Memorial is because the night Jesus died they were celebrating Passover (as they were Jews) I believe. As for the door-to-door stuff, they'd even pair off 2 kids together. Me and my bff would go, 12 & 14, with no cell phones, no way to contact anyone, just knocking on random doors. Some kids would get paired off even younger. Just handed a list of doors to visit and sent on our way. So totally unsafe. The Elders liked to talk about how supportive they were, to go to them if we (the congregation) needed help. But the type of help they gave was never really helpful to anyone that I knew of. I was told that i didn't dress right(i liked bright colours and bold patterns), cut down emotionally by Elder's wives and the clique of tall, thin, blue-eye'd blonds that were the favourites, off to marry Elders in other congregations or trying to get into the headquarters. They say we were all equal and there were no divisions, but anyone with eyes could see that wasn't the case. Often times the advice was just to pray more for god's strength whatever the hell that is. The Elders would also talk about how they would know if anyone was "in need" or "straying from the flock" and other bs because that's how Jehovah was helping them guide his flock. I was doing all those normal teen things - and even some bad-kid stuff. They had no idea, no one knew anything was wrong with me. No one tried to help me. That's what lead to my leaving. I was in mental crisis and had gotten myself help; that was really the last straw in a place i hated. I knew if I didn't cut the ties with a clean blade they'd come after me in droves, as I'd seen them do to other unbaptised (and baptised but inactive) members. I was 16, I set up a meeting with the Elders, told them everything I was doing, that they clearly had no idea and that they were full of shit, basically. I walked out of the room and the Hall and never looked back. I can say it worked at least. Other than the occasional heckle by people from the Hall seeing me on the street, I've been mostly safe. I didn't tell anyone ahead of time, not even my best friend. She was doing the same stuff, but I didn't tell her to after to make sure she didn't get in trouble. Ironically, no one who would have said they cared about me before asked why I stopped showing up. Clearly, you're only worth caring about if you're good for appearances, so that really reinforced that it was the right choice. I saw a lot of kids of members leave the Hall before I did, definitely more kids left than stayed, regardless of if we were born into the religion or not. The ones that stayed were the lucky few who had decent parents outside of their culty religious views, ones who found ways to be attentive and compassionate, give gifts from the heart outside of holidays, who didn't rule their houses with fear of them/fear of the religion. It was a very short list, not even all the kids from those families stayed. Mad respect to anyone who has left, it's not easy.
Just discovered your channel. I really can relate to this episode. Kudos and power to your guest. I admire her wisdom at such a young age not to bend to the pressure to get baptised and how she is raising/planning to raise her child
Hi! Welcome to C2C. Yes, Brooke is amazing ❤️
My impression is that with many children (and for some reason especially with many boys) you have to actively teach and explain/discuss good values - and make them conscious about them - as well as being a good example.
Even though I believe children are born good, not all children are naturally considerate or sensitive to the needs and feelings of others around them, and they have to learn and be reminded to at least take how others are affected by their actions into consideration when they make choises.
Edit: It doesn't mean one needs a religion to do that, but maybe a set of values and ideals.
Great point! I totally agree.
I think the reason boys need more reminders is because more people will correct and enforce a little girl being sweet and considerate and just leave a little boy to act like a small child. So even if the parents are continuously enforcing their kids of any gender should remember to consider others and all that, a little girl will feel more pressure from teachers, strangers, and peers to really take that on board quickly or have social consequences.
Tbh I think an ideal world would be somewhere in between how we currently correct little boys and little girls. Little girls don't need to constantly feel bad for acting like small humans while little boys should be reminded to consider others a bit more. Balance would be nice.
I was raised a JW and baptized. I had this same childhood and decided to leave when i had my first child going into kindergarten. I did not want her growing up that way and feeling how I felt. On the other hand, I’ve still raised my kids with a lot of the same principles and values I was raised with. Being kind and helpful. Trying to love everyone. Being able to find common ground so you can have friendly conversations. It’s not all entirely bad, but most of it is.
This is so interesting to me because I went through sort of the opposite experience to you and the guests you have on your channel. I was born in England to atheist parents and I went to school in England for a year before we came here to Australia. I was really happy at my little school in London because I was the same as all the other girls, and the school wasn't particularly religious. It was probably Church of England, but there wasn't any emphasis on religion. But when we came to Australia, my parents sent me to a local Catholic school (apparently my mum had gone to a Convent school in England when she was a teenager and she loved it, so that's why they sent me to this Catholic school here!) I don't know what the teachers at this school had told the children about me, but suddenly I was surrounded by these kids who called me a "pagan" and "a heathen," and "a devil worshipper"! As time went on I did make friends and things got better, but I always felt like I was on the outside looking in. I remember 😢when my friends first received Holy Communion and then later, when they had their Confirmation, and I was so envious - which I knew was a sin - because, of course, I'd been indoctrinated with the same religious beliefs as my friends and classmates!! 😅 The only problem was I wasn't Catholic! It took me a long time to realise that what I felt was alienation, on a profound level. I'm now a recovering alcoholic and addict and my life is so much better, but it was a long journey, which I'm still travelling. Sorry for the extremely long comment 😅 Shelise. You're amazing and inspiring, and so are your lovely guests. Love from Amanda ❤
Hi Amanda! Wow, what a rollercoaster! Thanks for sharing! Glad you’re doing better now ❤️❤️❤️
A lot of people knew kids who were witness because they were excluded from holidays, didn't say bless you, didn't wear the cross etc. I was that kid, and was made to sit out every school party and sit during the flag salute. I got in trouble for bringing home balloons that my friends gave me at school on my birthday when I was a teenager
That’s so awful! I’m sorry you dealt with that
That's awful
I have been an atheist for the last 8-10 tears and Im so happy that I have found your channel.
It gives me a new insight to an area that I follow.
Some years ago an old white male atheist (can I say Klingon Santa, aka Aron Ra, is old?) complained, that every speaker was a white man. And that the Atheist movement needed other groups to grow or it would in the end, die.
So Hi, I will follow you now.
Thanks and welcome to C2C!
My mom is a second grade teacher and occasionally has Jehovah's witnesses in her class. Apparently she found a magic phrase that made it so they could participate. I think it was something like calling all holidays and celebrations events or gatherings. Something the Jehovah's witnesses kids are allowed to do so they aren't excluded
I remember it being some chicken wanted John's head and it was served to her on a platter? Could be wrong tho. Lol. Thank you both for taking the time to put this together. 💕💕💕
Shelise thank you for having such a great guest! The first thing that I thought about was how JWs tell you that you arent perfect. However, the expectation from them is that you be perfect. Lack of perfection, not following all their "perfect rules", is followed up by shame, guilt, abandonment and fear of death and then after death living in a hell type place for a thousand years. Forgive me if I'm not recalling all of this right, but you get the gist. Eat the Holiday cupcake or even want to join in on fun and this is what you have to look forward to. Fear and lack of trust in anyone, including your family members or yourself all wrapped up in " the loving God" package. This is so hard for adults to handle, no less children who have no choice at all. I'm so happy for Brooke and her child that she is out. Ps Santa Claus who was based on St Nicholas was real. His actions of caring for orphan children and bringing them toys and food is the message of love that I look at. He was a kind and loving man who helped meet the wants and needs of children and bring them joy. So what's so bad about carrying that message forward? It's the only reason I celebrate the holidays is because it is about giving love and showing children that they can have their wants and needs met while allowing childlike wonder.
Much of what I hear here is very similar to the shaming and purity culture which is used against survivors, usually to silence people. In my community, there is a university where it seems like the lawyers and administrators literally use the same kinds of fundie shaming to malign, silence, and deny justice to mostly young women who experience serious trauma and abuse. Of course this is a catholic institution but there are many commonalities to high control relegious groups, even though this is supposed to be an academic institution. I have knowledge of how our local court systems have done that same thing, same purity culture and same shaming of survivors. These tactics are used frequently by many groups, to selectively deny justice, and usually to protect reputations of institutions and men who have power within them. I find your videos helpful, and appreciate how you speak with such kindness on these serious issues.
Hi Shelise. Be great to see ruinerwold farm kids on the show just saw their documentary and their story is so wild. Would love them to know how brave they all are managing to go on without getting the conviction they wanted to help them move on.
I remember being in middle school with a boy who came from a JW family; a new administrator was reading the birthdays for the day and they said his name. I will never forget the look of mortification that came across his face or how our teacher froze in her tracks and slowly turned to look at him. No idea what he was feeling or thinking, but suddenly he found himself having to explain to every person in the school WHY he couldn’t celebrate his birthday. Crappy situation for a kid to find themselves in for sure. I wonder if the administrator apologized and if he’s still practicing to this day.
Former JW as well from a Spanish Congregation. After the death of my mother, I fell into a deep despair and didn't realize the cloud of angst and deep depression I was in which lead me deeper into the religion. I felt so ostracized and put myself apart from the world. When I started experiencing paranormal stuff ad feeling the presence of my mothers spirit, I thought I was evil/demonic but after about a year of experiencing this I started realizing I was actually so in love with God and what the JW religion was teaching me was wrong. I disassociated from the "religion" and I've been happy for almost 5 years now!!
In the mid 70's my Mom told me that we did not celebrate holidays etc... bc it was like putting yourself / holiday above Jehovah. It was considered *a form of idolatry* as I understood it. All thru elem/mid school I did not participate in politics/voting, parties, mythology of ancient Greece, etc.
You can tell your child santa is not real but you love him and you will give him present because you are real and you love him 😊
My friends and I talk often about reparenting ourselves as we parent. I grew in a pretty average Christian household, but experienced plenty of unrelated shaming and lack of acceptance. Looking at my son and knowing how incredible important it is to me that he feel able to mess up and to feel accepted helps me offer that to myself. I was a really well-behaved, positive, loving kid that didn't deserve to feel like I was always letting others down. I've felt pretty nitpicked my whole life and that made me a great candidate for the taking on of religious shame as well. Always trying to find where I was falling short and finally falling into anxiety spirals that have taken so much work just to learn to function with. I left the faith because I couldn't do that to other people and fighting for the church to be a safe space made me an enemy. I'm really grateful to not feel like a danger to those I love anymore. Weirdly, I never felt like a danger to God.
Thank you for sharing that ❤️ I’m happy to hear that you are choosing a more loving approach for your child/children
I went to HS with someone who JW. I remember we were in theatre class and she talked about she has never celebrated her birthday and she wanted to so bad. We figured out when her birthday was and threw her a small party. This was a very tiny class so it was simple but she cried throughout the class period because she was so happy.
She eventually left the church when she ended up pregnant at 16. Funny enough her bf actually attended my church and so she also attended with him. I eventually lost touch with her but this is still a fond memory of mine.
Thank you Shelise and Brooke, great interview. I was a JW, adult convert. I faded over 15 years ago because I noticed the JW lifestyle was abnormal. I left with my ten year old son because the rules and all encompassing thinking was so unhealthy.
Your experiences and feelings..pretty much everything is exactly how it was for me. Except my friends were 11 when getting baptized.
How do people get in touch with your guests? Or do you give them our info and they decide? Either way I'd like to somehow do this. It is eerie the similarities. Ok thank you
Having that belief in Santa Claus as a child was one of my greatest childhood joys and memories. I think there’s no harm in kids having that belief.
Perfectionism!!!!
Totally JW still haunting me after all years.
I was born and raised a JW. The back story about birthdays is
King Herod's wife's birthday. Her husband asked her what she wanted and she asked for John the Baptist's head on a silver platter. Which she received. Therefore birthday's are evil
Yep!! The head of John the Baptist did it for birthday celebrations. Also Birthdays bring attention to oneself and that was a no- no also. 😮
Child raised as a JW here- my thoughts on Santa is very complicated... I am not sure if it is the fact that I was brought up in this cult so I feel like I was "lied" to for the first 10 years of my life but lying to children about a older man essentially breaking into your home to bring gifts is just something I cannot get behind. I also experienced childhood trauma so the lack of personal saftey is a big deal to me as well. Overall I don't ruin Santa for anyone but I would never bring him up.
Which is totally understandable!❤️
There was a recent family murder near us in Iron County and (as usual) the murderer was the most devoutly religious (Mormon dad)… clearly religion didn’t make him a good person!
I just found this podcast lol
I recently left the organization and yeah the reasoning on birthdays is because of two deaths mentioned in the bible occurring on birthdays. The most notable being John the Baptist's beheading on King Herod's birthday found in Mark 6:21-28 and the earliest one being mentioned in the story of Joseph at Genesis 40:20-22 about the Pharaoh's Chief Baker.
And both of the people whose bdays were being celebrated were non Christian or not gods people. I was taught that the Bible doesn’t mention any Christian’s celebrating bdays. My parents converted when I was a teen and they and my sister are still jw. I never really bought into it. As an angsty 15 year old I always kind of thought it was bs.
I'm a little late to the party so I'm sure someone has already commented. But as a recent ex-JW I can tell there's a lot she doesn't remember. (Understandable) On birthdays: It's because there are only two examples in the bible of birthdays and they were both celebrated by pagan kings. In one instance, a woman was dancing at a king's birthday and he was so impressed by her he told her she could have anything she wanted in exchange. Influenced by her mother's hatred, the woman requested the head of John the baptist. So it was really from the reckless vow of a king that John lost his life. Not the birthday itself. But the witnesses also view it as a haughty celebration. Even though we would always look for other excuses to celebrate each other such as baby and wedding showers, wedding anniversarys, graduations and once we threw a party for a sister who had been pioneering for 20 years.
I hope and pray that now you can blissfully and shamelessly celebrate the day God brought you into this world and the day God blessed you with your child! ❤
Can we just stop referencing minors having consensual sex (edit: with other minors!) as making “mistakes”? It’s a normal, natural part of development. It’s not a mistake unless the person feels like they made the decision based on pressure or other external factors. Even then, they may have been manipulated or coerced, so the “mistake” or blame should not fall on them. No third party should feel they can call someone else’s sexual experiences “mistakes.” Please let people speak for themselves. I definitely agree there should be a safe space for children to discuss their experiences-sexual and otherwise-so they can process what the experience meant to them, how they feel about it, and how they want it to influence future decision making. Otherwise, it’s likely they will feel shame if their experience goes against perceived norms, rules or their own expectations.
My ex father in law was JW and he would literally show up for holidays to enjoy gifts and food BUT wouldn't bring food and gifts. It was so insane
Thank you for sharing. 🥰
My husband grew a beard way before they gave permission that brothers could grow one. He was ripped from his "privileges" and told he was rebellious. We no longer go to the Kingdom hall. I have yet received a proper friend visit or a how is your family? They are not my friends or family. It does hurt because I have been around these people for over 35 years. I was so brainwashed into thinking this was a loving organization. It is a loving organization if you bend over and take it and are regularly attending the brainwashed meetings. They fear man, those human men. It makes me sick to think I held them so high. Putting their faces online has been their downfall. They are proud men. They are hiding what they have printed and have not even owned up to what they have printed and published. Saying things like, "You may have thought." I'm ready for the cold, hard truth no matter how painful. This is a cult. They have changed the scriptures for their gain. If you have any questions, then you have a lack of faith, and you are the black sheep. I know some of my friends and family that were terribly abused mentally and physically. Not to mention the pressure on men to strive for a higher roll in the congregation. To kiss up to the ones in charge. It is a form of scientology. An invasion of privacy. My whole family was torn apart. On a better note, we are mending and I will never forsake my blood again. Not for anyone or anything. I am feeling more free everyday. #1 reason I am no longer a JW? The Governing Body is apart of the United Nations still. #2 YHWH has a statue and a whole other story. It's a joke. There is so much more. They are sheeple and go with the croud even if they are proven wrong with their own publications. Peace out Jehovahs Witnesses! Me and my family need to heal.
Thank you for sharing ❤️❤️❤️
Here's the question.... Do you still love Jehovah? Sod the others who go to the KH... Make the truth your OWN, do you even remember that song? Don't give up.
How to know what is wrong or right if you are not raised religious? Its called common sense. I always found it so funny, that this is such a new concept to a lot of people. Of course you should not steal, murder etc. and I never needed any church to tell me that. I was raised by someone explicitly non-religious that taught me to be a good person, that all people are equal, no matter what gender, ethnicity or color, sexuality, (dis)ability etc. and not to blindly follow authority just for the sake of it. That is more than most churches can say about themselves, if I'm not mistaken.
And also funny: I have an aunt that is a JW and her kids were very sexually active before marriage, some even got kids way before that (one cousin got pregnant at 15 even), are tattooed from head to toe... my many other cousins were far less crazy *lol* She is basically the only one who ever cared about JW and gave up on trying to convince me a long time ago.
Question for Brooke, how do you handle the relationship with your parents as grandparents to your child? Do they try to push the faith onto him? Do they respect your boundaries?
When I left mormonism I was afraid i couldn't possibly raise kind moral boys. I like all parents had/have no idea what I'm doing. Who knew just loving them and doing my best would allow them to become such incredible people!
Regarding birthdays, the stated reason for not observing them is that they are a celebration of the self and promote pride. We know that God doesn't approve of them because He included only 2 accounts of birthday celebrations in the bible and both involved a murder. The real value of not celebrating birthdays though, is the same as all the other unique beliefs. It is to make JWs stand out as different. It kept us within the JW culture. It made us different so that we only made friends within the religion. It is simply another tactic of a high control group. It makes leaving more difficult.
So, specifically on the birthdays (Still watching the interview btw, been hooked on these ever since you did a cross-over with Jake/Alt Worldly.) The Witnesses think they have to do with spiritism, because of old customs where you got "Treats and Gifts" to ward off evil spirits. Which is weird because JWs do believe in evil spirits. Second one is because Jesus never celebrated his birthday, so a lack of Biblical Orders means "we can't do it" to Jehovah's Witnesses. They still celebrate Wedding Anniversaries but that's none of my business (anymore.) And three, yes because all birthdays mentioned in the Bible have been bad. Pharoah executed someone on his birthday, and Emperor Herod got a request during his birthday to kill John the Baptist, and subsequently had John the Baptist executed. So in short 1. It's Spiritistic so no. 2. Jehovah didn't tell us to, so no. 3. Only bad things happen on Birthdays so no. You could also loop in Creature Worship and Idolatry if you wanted, but those are the basics. Cheers to you both!
I agreed i never got baptized! Its easier to keep the relationship then being disallowed .
in the cult I was in, we also didn't celebrate those holidays, but we did have seven holy days/feasts. The reason we didn't do birthdays at first was because of supposed Pagan origins (this changed shortly after my birth). the same for Christmas and Easter (that perspective remained). Basically, we based our holy days on the moon, while the pagan holidays were based on the sun. It was a distinction from the outside world. In essence, we took on the same holidays most Jewish people celebrate BUT don't do Purim or ones not specifically ordained by God. So no Hanukkah, even though Jesus celebrated "the festival of lights." The holy events were: Passover, First of Unleavened Bread (non-leaven is sinless, adding leaven is sin to answer your guest's answer on why it's important), First Fruits (wasn't celebrated too heavily), Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles (with the Last Great Day a celebration of the kingdom to come). Besides these "holy days," no other day was special to us.
I did then change and did things my way. No one could've of told me I was wrong. Because all that had to do with conscious according to the elder. I asked him and he then agreed with me slot of these were left up to my conscious. So I changed . Everyone tried to impose their conscious..
My childhood best friend was JW. I actually went house to house with them whenever I would spend the night and Kingdom Hall. I found it so odd. They didn’t celebrate anything as you said and she would get whipped with a belt when she got in trouble 😳😳 I think she still is one but I’m hoping she got out.
Wow I can’t imagine what it would be like to have someone answer the door with a gun. However I live in the middle of nowhere, so if you’re knocking on my door, when no one is expected. I usually answer armed. I would never make it a focal point. However in my conservative Christian area. I’d like to know why JW pick our area? Who’s dropping these poor women and kiddos in the middle of nowhere to walk a 1/2 mile between homes.
What my parents did, and what I did with my kids, is the spirit of Christmas. Santa represents the spirit of Christmas and not say anything definitive when they are little so they can have the fun of Santa but make sure whenever you directly talk about Santa make sure to not say he’s the guy who goes down the chimney but that the spirit of Christmas is where everything comes from.
Yes, John the baptiser, did have his head chopped off at a party but it was.King Harod's wife who asked for it to be done.
Interested story
I cant remember the verse number
I would love to be interviewed as a former JW who was born into the organization.
As a child I had a few JW friends & felt so bad for them getting left out of the classroom festivities
I remember a JW classmate who had to leave during birthday celebrations, holiday parties, etc. & I felt so bad for him. I now feel even worse knowing that he likely wanted to participate but couldn't because of his parents' beliefs... My family did such an amazing job making me feel special, & it's a trait that I try to carry on in my life. I'm so sorry you didn't have that as a child.
I also learned how to duck & hide when anyone (JW's especially) came to the door, because my grandma had severe anxiety & didn't want to talk to anyone. 😂 And her mom was a JW & she wanted none of that. lollol