Catholic Priest Prescribes KNEELING ON FINGERS to Cast Out S*xual Demons
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Homeschooled in a Traditional Catholic co-op, Anthony was given extreme guidance from a priest which has had negative long term ramifications. He explains the difference between traditional Catholicism and mainstream Catholicism and how one operates using common mind controls tactics. We also discuss themes of how purity culture can be damaging to men also, creating an unspoken dutiful contract between husband and wife.
Resource for SA statistics: www.rainn.org/statistics
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IG: @tonyspurgin / tonyspurgin
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Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
Chapter Markers
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:36 Brief history of the Catholic church pre-Vatican 2
00:08:56 Major changes in the Catholic church after Vatican 2
00:15:55 Anthony feels the mainstream Catholic church isn't a cult
00:16:58 Anthony was put into a Catholic co-op homeschooling program
00:23:57 About the priests who ran his traditional Catholic church
00:27:20 Anthony's high school homeschool experience at a Catholic church
00:29:49 Catholic apologetics he learned in school
00:32:52 Extreme s*xual purity standards
00:39:03 TW: Clergy directed self h@rm
00:43:46 The "marriage debt"
00:49:31 How purity culture can cripple a young person's s*xuality
00:54:14 Suffering for the Lord
01:01:44 The distrust of psychiatric help & demon exorcisms
01:14:18 TW: Su*c*de attempt
01:17:51 Systems not people
01:20:42 When his math stopped mathin'
01:24:34 Emotional break and logical analysis = deconversion
01:28:12 How Anthony is doing now
01:35:04 Linda, Listen
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
Its so cool to see Anthony here! I had Anthony on my show as well. I focus my channel on ex-Trad Catholics, being one myself. I'd love to share my story with you all if you ever wanted to hear it. I was forced into a marriage when I was 22 in order to "avoid scandal" in my Trad community. Obviously, in reaction to that, I moved 700 miles away. It was a wild time for me.
@@ChristineAlyse Hey no way! I'd love to have you on the show if you'd ever like to talk more!
@NontraditionalCatholic I think I’ve been looking for a channel like yours! I’m definitely culturally Catholic but no longer practicing!
@@R_Pope That's how I think of myself too! I can't change that I grew up VERY culturally Catholic, I can't change my culture, but I can change how I act towards others!
@@ChristineAlyse I just shot you an email! RUclips doesn't like email addresses in comments sections, I think. But yes, we are a small group, us ex-Trads, and that is why I am so grateful that the C2C Team covered Anthony's story like this!
@@ChristineAlyseit can be hard, but we move around so much as a military family, I find my tribe other places. With a last name Pope, it’s nice to at least be culturally Catholic lol😂
I’m not sure why, but this is my favorite interview so far. He is so good at articulating the pain Traditional Catholicism has caused. I also love how he described his current mindset on being a good person and leaving something positive behind. ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
That's literally how I left mainstream Catholicism. If I truly want to be a good person and I try to be a good person, how can I be this evil? How can I be THIS sinful? If our God is a good God like we sing and we are created in his image and also gifted with free will, then why are we so punished for fully exploring these gifts given to us by a higher entity? For trying to make decisions to further ourselves.
I had a kid of a traditional Catholic tell me that (he has autism with problems regulating "normal" behavior") without religion, we wouldn't know what was good or evil. I felt so sad. I knew he lashed out. He could get a bit too violent and struggled with controlling his emotions because of his autism. But I tried to remind him that he absolutely already knew good versus evil. He knew deep down that smacking someone was bad, but sometimes he got overwhelmed and he did it anyway without thinking. That wasn't some mark on his moral character. He knew what he did was wrong. He also lacked the control to always avoid those reactions. And most importantly, he was always striving to work on being MORE in control. Personally, he wasn't an easy person to like or get along with but when he said that, felt sad that he bought into the trad Catholic things imparted by his parents. Every single day, he wanted to be better even when he was constantly failing and deserved better non-religious and unbiased resources and therapy.
I went the opposite route. Denying religion. Going full blown academia and ignoring my Catholic roots. Ending up in burnout and a chronic illness despite thinking I should have done much more in my time here. Can't help but try to pull my ego back and realize that, at the end of the day, we must be good people and if we can, leave something on this earth that is a net positive. If that's all I can manage, that should be enough.
I used to be Catholic & wanted to clarify something. Regarding the Eucharist, Catholic teaching (both trad and modern) is that the consecrated Eucharist is "the body and blood of Christ" in its substance, but the accidents do not change. The terminology of "substance" and "accidents" is based on Aristotelian philosophy. The idea is that everything in the world consists of two halves: the "substance" is completely invisible and undetectable but is what makes something the thing that it is. The "accidents" consist of all the aspects of a thing that are subject to the senses, that is, everything that is subject to human experience. In a sense, the "substance" refers to the invisible inner spiritual truth of a thing. Normally, nothing can ever change in substance without also changing its accidents. The Eucharist is (as far as I recall) the only exception. So when Catholics say that in the Eucharist they truly eat and drink the body and blood of Christ, they are saying that they are taking into themselves the "substance" of Christ spiritually. The "accidents" of the bread and wine do not change, so the Eucharist still feels, tastes, and smells the same as it did before consecration.
Most modern philosophies, and most peoples' common sense, would not accept the idea that things are made up of substance and accident. We would normally think that things just are what they seem to be, or what scientific examination can detect them to be. But the Catholic Church sticks with Aristotle's philosophy, and that results in a lot of confusion. All of which is to say, Catholics are not cannibals, even though the language of Eucharistic doctrine seems to imply otherwise. Eucharistic language is meant to emphasize that Catholics are in the deepest possible communion with the risen, eternal, divine Christ. They are not consuming a human corpse.
That doctrine is pretty close to a lot of protestant teachings on the Eucharist as well. Though they have gone further from the substance and accident terminology and call it a spiritual transformation. Though I was Methodist and we saw it as a symbol.
Well said. I think that people who aren't familiar with the beliefs think it sounds outlandish.
Pretty sure there’s a word for it
The change of the Eucharist becoming the body and blood
@@tiryaclearsong421 Yeah, I think the traditional understanding of Eucharist in churches like the Lutheran and Anglican are closer to Catholic teaching than either Protestants or Catholics wanted to admit at the time, which contributed to centuries of hatred. The Protestants rejected (or tried to reject) the whole "scholastic" tradition (e.g., Aristotle via Thomas Aquinas), so the Counter-Reformation Catholic Church doubled down on it, and emphasized the specific terminology of transubstantiation as a mark of true doctrine. In the modern world, conservative Catholics tend to assume mistakenly that the meaning of the Catholic doctrine is meant to oppose pure subjectivism, that is, the idea that spiritual significance of the Eucharist lies in the individual's perception of some sort of symbolic or metaphorical spirituality. I believe the Catholic Church's participation in ecumenical dialog after Vatican II helped to resolve many of these misunderstandings and disagreements (though not all, of course). But that has never filtered down to most people in the pews.
I'm sorry to be sounding like some kind of Catholic apologist. This whole thing has brought up a lot of memories. I definitely would have stayed Catholic if I could have. But it just was not possible, and in the end, that's probably a good thing.
@@punkrockgirl488 I know what you mean! There was a lot I loved about Catholic theology. If I could have found a more progressive parish I might have stuck around. Also, I avoided the word "transubstantiation" because I was already using too much jargon, I didn't want to make it worse.
TRIGGER WARNING FOR SA
Thank you for this video. My ex husband brutally assaulted me on multiple occasions, his aunt told me while I was bawling my eyes out bruised from head to thigh that a husband can’t assault his wife.
I have hated her for so long, not understanding where that could have possibly come from (I am not Catholic) now I know, and the epiphany has allowed me to release a hurt I didn’t even know I was still carrying.
I’m so sorry you went through that. I’m catholic and would never agree with her at all!
So very sorry you went through that! My ex husband did the same to me. He was a true narcissist. If you haven’t explored what narcissism is I would highly recommend you do. It answered so many questions for me once I got away from him. Helped me out with my healing journey❤🙏🏼
I wish that hadn't happened to you! I entered puberty about the time these opinions started shifting, so I basically believe that Truth varies according to who is defining it. If you feel you were SA'd by your mate, how can anyone presume to argue?! I support your disagreement with his aunt & am glad you are no longer in that situation
Catholicism doesn't teach rape or enabling rape. Don't be ridiculous
You’re ability to respond to any guest and explain or interpret the subject is astonishing! Thank you for all of the effort you put into each guest
Yes, I am constantly impressed at her ability to understand and engage on a similar level with her guests.
It’s seriously impressive and it helps that cults are all very similar 🤣
But seriously that auditory comprehension
She’s a strong feminine figure in my opinion!
You are working so hard. I appreciate all that you do. You are giving all of your guests voices in a calm and safe space. I hope that you are taking good care of yourself. ❤
Thank you so much!❤️
I STILL say my Hail Mary's when I'm scared or in a pinch ❤ Passion of the Christ came out about the time my mom stuck me in Catholic school. Something about Mary's pain and anguish having her only child sacrificed for mankind right in front of her really struck a nerve with me. Mad respect for Mary ❤❤❤
Me too! I was a young mum at the time watching that scene. 💔 love Mary too. I returned to the Catholic Church and love learning about the saints too, crazy stories there. JC is my main man, sorry to hear this guys story, but it’s good to hear peoples stories.
But was he her only child?
*instant punch in the face by Saint Nicholas*
(Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but my city is very devout to Saint Nick and we treat him as a friend/weird uncle even if we don't believe in any God. My joke comes from the recount of the excommunication of Arius during the council of Nicaea, when he stated that Jesus was only a man who spoke with God and not an aspect of God themselves, and got punched in the face by Nicholas, Bishop of Myra, who later became a Saint and also Santa Claus.)
I miss being in the small chapel I went to where older Italian ladies did Novenas out loud. It was so peaceful.
@@porshamills4259 you should go and revisit. I tend to sit up the back and enjoy the peace, humans cause lots of crap but if you can put it aside and just feel the supernatural peace it’s quite beautiful.
@@SpoonG lol. Funny story. Many of the saints were quite the rebels! And very human despite deep faith.
I do believe her only child was Jesus, but I think some Protestant’s think James? Was his flesh brother while others believe he was his spiritual brother.
One day we will all know 🙏🏽🌸
I grew up "mainstream" Catholic. I played violin at Mass for several years, my parents have always been involved in the church on a deeper level (liturgical ministers when I was very young, they taught RCIA or the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults for many years after moving to Albuquerque, they've been Eucharistic ministers for several years), though I went to a Methodist junior high and high school an# have always had contact with a variety of faith paths--ncluding Mormonism. My takeaway is that anything can become culty if it becomes too rigid, too intolerant, too dogmatic. Anthony, I'm glad you've survived and that you are the person that you are!
I grew up Catholic, my entire extended family (on Dad’s side) was raised Catholic. So much of what Anthony went through is insane. I can’t believe what he grew up in and what I grew up started as the same church. I haven’t heard so much of what he talked about. Traditional Catholic Churches were always referred to as “fire and brimstone” by my family. If a priest was exclusive or hate-filled for a group we didn’t go to that Catholic Church. My Mom converted prior to marrying my Dad. We always knew their were a variety of Catholics. The C&E Catholics (only go on Christmas and Easter), the Traditional Catholics (fire and brimstone), the regular Catholics (went weekly and followed the Sacraments), the see-me Catholics (who went to mass to be seen as very Catholic) and the cafeteria Catholics (picks which parts to believe and which to just leave by the side). It also makes a world of difference who the Priest is. There are definitely good and bad priests. The biggest thing is that God/Jesus loves and cherishes each person. Jesus is forgiving and understanding. If your priest doesn’t encourage discovery and exploring your questions than he may not be the right priest for you.
Don’t forget the Bible Thumpers
Key point here; Traditional Catholic Churches were always referred to as “fire and brimstone” - its been said Catholicism is based on Luciferian dogma....they share similar "Fire & Brimstone" rituals & black "Latin" Masses. Satan is the great deceiver!!😈
To be fair cafeteria Catholic is a very derogatory term used by more conservative Catholics against those who are more liberal and apply their personal conscience to Catholic teachings that aren’t infallible dogma (and most catholic teachings aren’t).
The Mormon church and also the Catholic Church The Catholic church is the biggest cult there is Catholics cannot read the Bible on their own they are told by a priest within the Bible if you're seeing in a congregation that guy could be tying lying his rear end off and you're believing it
As to when you were married if you're not Islamic or Muslim they think you are there possession as a wife there's no such animal as I want it and give it to me marriage is to be shared together you both made decisions not just one party over the other
You know what I find ironic is that the Trads that Anthony is talking about in this episode also pick and choose what they believe! I grew up in the same sect, the FSSP. We entirely ignored anything from 1962 and after. Isn't that doing exactly what we were accusing the "cafeteria Catholics" of doing?? We were hypocrites.
So glad you are exploring Traditional Catholicism. I grew up Catholic and the indoctrination starts early and is SO STRONG! My family has now all left the religion because 3 of our childhood priests were found to be molesting children. One of which just got sent to prison for child trafficking and the church knew the entire time and kept moving him parish to parish.
Even deeper layers to that. We have friends and family who still are indoctrinated and have blinders up to the entire world.
I'm sorry about what they went through. But there are still good priest left in the Catholic church that are not pedophiles. The church has always had scandals and problems since the first century. It's always been made up of people who are imperfect. As long as we live in this fallen world bad things are going to happen in the churches and in businesses that we use. There is no perfect Church there is no perfect person on this earth. But as Jesus said the Gates of hell will not prevail against the church. I sure hope that you don't want the Gates of hell to prevail against the church. Whenever somebody finds a corrupt church that is protecting pedophiles then move on to another Catholic Church that does not. The Eastern Catholic churches seem like they're doing a really good job. As for the ones in the Catholic Church who do not repent from causing major stumbling blocks Jesus talked about the being better to have had the millstone hung around the neck and tossed into the water so the afterlife could certainly end up being quite bleak for the corrupt ones in the churches who do not repent.🙏🙏🙏🧎🕯️🕯️🕯️📿
I’m adding another comment: I have/had a rare jaw joint disorder where my mandible ended up receding into my airway so I suffered from night terrors as a child and sleep apnea / paralysis. I was told by my high school religion teacher that it was demonic and I really needed to be careful because I was virginal and an easy target. I was terrified. We were also forced to watch “The Excorcism of Emily Rose” in class (junior year). I had to sleep in my parents bed. I was that scared. The next day many of us came in wearing our cross necklaces that we were gifted at our First Communion and hadn’t touched in years. 😂
Luckily my parents never reinforced spiritual attacks and helped me get professional therapy and help early on when they noticed anxiety and depression and my health issues.
I’m so shocked they showed yall the exorcist?!? That’s WILD to me having gone to private baptist school myself where even rap or pop music was seen as opening a portal to sin and evil by teachers. I can’t even begin to imagine them showing us a scary movie lol. But I guess their motivation was to get y’all to wear your necklace and embrace the catholic faith 😅😂
I have had surgery for this in early March. After 15 years of severe grinding, going through countless dentists, specialists, etc. I finally was referred to an oral surgeon with experience. It was $110k surgery, insurance covered $55k, and we had to pay $65k upfront in surgeon fees. I still don't have feelings in my right side chin, but I can breathe through my nose. It felt like a cavern in the back of my throat at first. It doesn’t stop you from grinding. It just puts your jaw back where it should be. I have a face full of metal screws, and biomedical implants for the trouble. Also, 2 months of liquid diet. I recommend everyone go see an appropriate oral surgeon ASAP before their problem gets as severe. Mouth guards from the cvs and even your dentist only make things worse.
@@MrsLyraGyrl thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry you had to go through this. I had TJR with custom titanium joints, Lefort 1, 3 piece, and genioplasty in March 2023. It saved my life. I can sleep for like 3-4 hours at a time now and breathe. It wasn’t possession…
That’s fucking crazy jeez! I only experienced it once in my life and I can see how you’d think it can be something actually there with you… it was weird and idk if my experience was actually spiritual or not… not saying demonic, but spiritual… maybe not but if you had a legit reason that’s crazy I didn’t know that could be caused by something like that.
It took a while for you to have a Catholic person as a former Catholic I really appreciate it
It seems apparent that many who call themselves "Catholic" were not well formed in the faith. Sadly, people encounter individuals who very badly represent the Church and use that as an excuse to turn from God. May God have mercy on us and fill us with compassion and wisdom.
My mom used to be a nun so I've been looking forward to some catholic content!!
Wait, what?
Used to be? Not a Catholic one then ? Or how did she escape?
Oh wow! I’d love to talk to her!! If she’s interested in being on, she can email me 😁 cultstoconsciousness@gmail.com
We need an interview of your mom! That would be fascinating.
Mine too!! Omg I rarely see anyone with a similar story!
Thanks so much for making this interview! As an ex Catholic who was heavily into an ex Christian support group for years, I’ve been wanting to see something like this for a while! Again, thanks so much! :)
There is so much to expose. Thank you to your guest for his bravery to expose the truth of what’s happening in the Church. There’s much more
Thank you for this episode. I grew up in the “modern” Catholic Church and school system. I went to Catholic school for 16 years (Jesuit college included).
As a child, we were inherently wired to feel guilty. As an adult, I still default to guilt as my first feeling if anything goes “wrong” in my life.
Thank you for sharing, Anthony.
Religion is very fertile ground for OCD obsessions. I definitely feel for this guy.
I grew up in catholic school, the way we were taught was everyone else branched off so they’re not as “pure” as us, but at the same time this is the same group that let a man with sex offender charges work at the school (he ended up getting arrested a second time after I left for some kind of child sex crime), they taught us homophobia and so many other things that I hate today. I was Roman Catholic not traditionalist
In justice to Catholics the hosts of this podcast should add the words "Traditionalist" before Catholic in your title. At least concerning the Society of St Pius X (one of the largest if not the largest traditionalist movements that celebrates the Tridentine Mass) their misses have been deemed illicit by the Vatican's Ecclesia Dei Commission
and stated in a letter signed by
Msgr. Camille Perl
Secretary of the Commission concerning attending these masses:
"There is no doubt about the validity of the ordination of the priests of the Society of St. Pius X. They are, however, suspended a divinis, that is prohibited by the Church from exercising their orders because of their illicit ordination."
I think the podcast should immediately modify the title since your platform which deals with CULTS suggest that the Catholic Church be thrown into the same basket as Scientology and polygamous sects which is frankly unjust, innacurate and irresponsable. Unless it's concerning the Society of St Peter (local to the Pope), those offering Latin Mass without Vatican permission such as the Society of St Pius X are not in good standing withthe Catholic Church.
He is so wrong on so much, I'm not sure where he has gotten his info.....
@@sylviapurcell3517You are referring to the guest on the program?
@@smugglednews7453 yes 12 years catholic church and school and things he was saying are just not correct
There are many thousands, possibly even millions, of people who were abused as children by 'Christians.'
Wow. Sad.
Lifelong Catholic here.
There truly is genius in Catholicism and it is rich in meaning and tradition.
His experience is nothing like mine. 😮
Hey Andrew, I'm coming from a Mormon background but a lot of what you struggle with resonated with me and mirrors many of what LDS people experience. I'm glad to hear that you're working with a therapist, hopefully it's a sex positive, trauma informed therapist. I can't imagine it would have been easy for you to open yourself up to the idea of therapy since it sounds like it's very discouraged in the Catholic church. So that's awesome and just shows tremendous amounts of growth and humility that you have. I hope that overtime you can fully heal from the damage that this religion has caused to you. I hope you're able to be connected, mind and body and become whole without feeling shame or guilt over being human. Religion is unnatural in my opinion. I hope you love yourself and are gentle with yourself. You're extremely courageous for sharing such personal struggles but just know that you are having an impact on other people, it's incredibly important and helps others feel not so alone. Wishing you nothing but comfort, love and healing ❤
I grew up in Catholicism, and I was so excited to see you doing a video on this. I hope there are more because there is so much to unpack. Growing up I had so many questions about things we were being told to do and things we were taught, and, the amount of shunning, usually in the form of dismissiveness and being told to repent for my thoughts was insane. And don’t even get me started on trying to come back after a divorce.
@11:29 - trance inducing. Yes, it is. So is praying the rosary. When I was a Catholic growing up, I remember going to rosary meetings. After several minutes of praying the rosary together, I noticed people going into a trance. It creeped me out. It was one of the many reasons why I left the church.
I mean, the Rosary is a form of meditation...
Trance? More like the effect of prayer
Trance?? Boredom, I'd say 😂.
No they didn’t 🙄
Really enjoyed this conversation!
Loved the video with Anthony. What a well-spoken young man.
Thank you so much for speaking up. It’s not only brave but shows other men that they can speak up too. May your healing be swift and sure.
I'm glad to see Shelise talking about Catholicism, and I really feel for Anthony. I was raised non-religious, but in an emotionally abusive environment, which led to intense sexual shame similar to what Anthony describes. Then I converted to Catholicism when I was 22 -- a very bad decision, but I didn't realize it for about twenty years. As a Catholic I avoided the trads for the most part. But I think it's important to recognize that there is a whole spectrum within Catholicism, even within the mainstream Church, which can often be extremely conservative, authoritarian, and repressive. I tried to be what I thought of as an "orthodox" Catholic -- I accepted science, the novus ordo mass, and all of the teachings of Vatican II. But I still spent years filled with anxiety and shame over masturbation, and I suppressed my bisexuality as much as I could. Simply having those teachings on sex, even if it's not implemented in a cultish environment, is very damaging to any young Catholic (and many older ones) who tries to take them seriously. The "theology of the body" is an especially nasty deception -- people like Chris West just sugarcoat the lies.
My experience has been that the one thing that's most effective at decreasing sexual shame is to cultivate a relationship with someone who is willing to be patient with you, and to explore physical intimacy with zero expectations and total acceptance. Doing this will slowly desensitize you to the negative feelings associated with being close to another person's body, and will allow room for your true feelings to emerge. Of course, finding this kind of relationship is not easy. But it is possible.
That's so true! I had never really thought about sexuality in those terms, but I was ashamed of having been forced to have intercourse at age 15, though I had no shame about doing everything up to that point for a year before--because that young man respected me thoroughly. Once I moaned something that sounded like "no," so he stopped everything; otherwise, I would have lost my virginity quite willingly and never felt guilty about it. Thanks for helping me understand that aspect of myself!
I was raised Catholic and the one thing I could not get on board with was their idea of sexuality. I attended Catholic schools and we were taught that sex is a great thing because it was created by God and should be enjoyed, but only with God's approval, which is in marriage. No problem with that, if you believe it.. good for you. But do not impose the last part on me. But what really revolted me was their attitude towards homosexuals (a deviation from the norm, so any sexual urge should be repressed) and masturbation... how can anybody be against self-exploration?
very demonic tale.
Thank you both so much for this conversation. ❤
this video is sooooo important! thank you both
Excellent interview. Thanks Anthony.
Great episode! I appreciate his honesty!
Thank You Anthony for sharing... So much of this reminds me so much of my childhood.
Thanks for having a former traditional Catholic on your podcast. That is how I was raised. I have suffered so much anxiety and depression from trying to live that way. I’m still trying to deconstruct from all of it!
Totally smitten with this guest. He spoke in a way that was clear and educated and came from a place of love. I hope he finds peace and gains love in the way that is true and fulfilling for him ❤
OMG this was amazing! I can relate to so much of what was said. I had forgotten why my mental health struggles were stigmatized, but now i remember.
❤️
Excellent discussion. Thank you!
Thank you so, so much, Alexander, for telling your story.
I'm so sorry you are amazing and brave to share your story❤ sending hope and healing vibes
One of the best videos you have done. I could find lots to relate to.
Happy to hear that!
Brilliant interview!! 😊🙏
Excellent video!
I am catholic, and I'm sure there are lots of forms of catholicism. I am so sorry for all of the sufferiing Anthony went through. . I have heard about several of the terrible things he talks about, but I was taught a very different religion. Real catholicism believes in inner peace, in pardon and love.
Thank you ! Some of your sharing echoed kiet much whith me !!
This was so valuable to me as a person coming out of the Mormon CULTure. Thanks for being so vulnerable and sharing your experiences!
Great interview. 😊
Thank you he explains this SO well.
I was raised catholic and I’m old enough to remember when the changes of Vatican 2 were started in the main stream church. The changes freaked out many people. Very interesting to see how some resulted to extreme practices. IMO God is not vindictive or cruel. It’s man who has done that to religion
Thank you for sharing this. I agree wholeheartedly that God (however we conceive of such a being) is neither vindictive or cruel. That said, the God of the Old Testament is certainly depicted as such-and worse. Smiting entire cities, turning a fearful woman into a pillar of salt, on and on. And I suspect this is the reason that the most conservative, traditionalist members of all three Abrahamic religious revere those characteristics and consider them honorable.
A boy is told to kneel on his own fingers to perform thought-stopping and that his instincts are the product of mind-invading demons. For the God of the Old Testament, this is kindness.
@@ihaveseensuchthings Yes, Old Testament has A LOT of bad treatments. Although I am not religious anymore, at all, the morals I was raised with are what I try to live by. I have had stage 4 cancer for the last 14 yrs, so I have a odd perspective. I believe is Love and the power of positive thoughts. That is what has gotten me through all my treatments, broken bones and daily pain. May I ask a question? If it’s ok, I would like your thoughts on what you believe happens after death?
@@Juju-bm1sh Oh, wow, 14 years with stage 4 cancer? You’re quite a miracle, aren’t you?
It’s strange, but I’m almost glad that you asked what I believe happens after death. Although I’m no longer religious, I’ve always been deeply spiritual-and at the risk of sounding a little insane, I’ve always had a relationship to the dead. I’ve seen and sensed and felt their presence as far back as I can remember. My father passed 17 years ago, and in that time we’ve grown very close (we had a difficult relationship in life). He’s become such a beautiful, bright, humorous, and wisdom-bestowing presence for me, so I’ll have to tell you what he says about death: there’s no such thing; there are only transitions.
Where he is, people are more alive than we understand life to be. Comparatively, the living are just dreaming. Those in spirit are the ones experiencing the fullness of consciousness and beingness. At least those who have chosen to heal.
Not everyone accepts the fact of their death, and not all who are dead are immediately willing to heal and move on. Some stay enmeshed in unfinished emotional business. But whenever that day finally comes for you-and I hope it is no sooner than you and your loved ones wish it to be-I sense you will discover the meaning of “perfect peace.” And who knows what adventures you’ll have then? 🌷
Oooooh! I love going into the comments on these videos but I’m especially glad I came across yours because that last bit you said is everything I believe in. Well said my friend.
@@lindseyhendrix2405 Aww, I’m so glad! And I very much hope that @Juju-bm1sh got to see it. It felt like a special message I was meant to deliver. 💗
Thanks to Anthony for sharing his story.
Very well spoken guest!
Excellent. Thank you both. ❤
As a trans person, my mainstream catholic family has been better about me being a gay trans man with a trans man partner than some non religious people I know.
Firstly, I am so happy to hear that your family is so cool! But then, yeah, this just goes to show that Catholicism is not a monolith. My Trad Catholic family forced me into a marriage when I was 22, because the scandal of me living with a girl before marriage would have torn our community apart and my grandparents would die of broken hearts and their deaths would be on my hands. So, that label "Catholic" really can mean very very different things for different people.
There definitely are some very liberal Catholics and even priests, the main party that led the push for marriage equality here in Ireland was Catholic, although that's generally green vs orange rather than actual belief. The leader's brother I think was gay and he realised the harm that was being done to queer people. The man went from having his identity blocked on tv, Sinn Fein has always been the political wing of the IRA to dancing on the steps of Dublin castle with drag queens as they announced the results of the referendum
I think it just depends. Fundamentalism (regardless of the religion) is very discriminatory via nature. Not all Catholic churches are fundies. Many are quite open-minded and have progressive practices and beliefs.
are they the going to church every sunday but doing nothing else within the church type or are they actually dedicated (going to recollections, serving in the church, reading the bible and praying daily, going on montly confessions, etc)? Because it would make sense if they were the former but from my personal experience as an ex catholic I can assure you that most people actually serving in the church don't want people like us alive. There's a huge ideological difference between the casual catholics and the devout ones
@@MiraBooIts one thing this channel shows above else, extremist religion looks the same whatever flavour, often patriarchal, obsessed with controlling sex, enforcing ultimately meaningless rules meant to guilt you into staying for your salvation or whatever they call it
Thanks for interviewing Anthony....his pov and experiences let me see the harm and so much stuff that I'm currently going through. It also let's me see why and how my mum acts the way she does.
I call myself catholic but I suppose I'm just the type others call "lukewarm". Thank you for this and I can't wait to keep watching your interviews
I’m so glad it’s helpful!
This is so great! I was born Catholic in a big Catholic family post-vatican 2. My immediate family and grandparents seem like the "normal" everyday Catholics he talks about. But slowly the local churches have skewed toward the traditionalism ideas. It's scary.
And now some of my peers growing up have decided that even the Catholic schools we grew up in ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, so they homeschool.
It's scary if one thinks everyone but Hitler gets to go to heaven and if one thinks Catholic Mass is meant to be a picnic where beach attire is totally fine; co-habitation with your fiancée is cool; sex before marriage is licit if you're in love and contraceptives are OK as long as you feel it is and if you believe that one can be a good Catholic even if you're sexually active with a person of the same sex. Then it's VERY scary because the FSSP and all faithful Catholic clergy teach that the way to hell is wide whereas the path to eternal life is narrow and how few there are who find it and dying in mortal sin opens the gates to eternal damnation. Yes scary indeed.
I was so plugged into this episode for whatever reason!!! I have no idea why I found it so especially fascinating!😂 maybe because this topic was so tangible, since family members and friends are catholic.
Thank you for sharing your painful experience. You are such a beautiful human 💛
I made the horrible mistake of starting my eyeliner when the Leviathan bit came up 😂😂😂 good news is I didn’t poke my eye out but omg I literally haven’t laughed that hard in WEEKS!!!!
Enjoyed your thoughts!!!
I’m from the same metroplex as Anthony. I feel like I’m learning all sorts of new things about facets of the community that I had no idea about.
Love and appreciate the work you both do. Shalis i also loveee that top you’re wearing
Thanks so much!
I am going chime in here on homeschool. There is an ever growing secular homeschool community where parents like myself who are not religious and choose to homeschool for other reasons. Secular Eclectic Academic is an organization that works on promoting and providing information for secular homeschool. The Christian homeschoolers who have a goal isolating and indicting their children are unfortunately still the majority but secular homeschoolers are growing.
And there are many religious families who give their children a good homeschooling education, for example several Catholic families doing montessori at home on Instagram. It's such a spectrum honestly, like most things it's not black and white.
Kudos to you by the way! I'd love to homeschooling my kids (instead I'm teaching other people's children 😂)
During the rosary at church, we had a younger girl that would take a section. My grandma hated when she did because she was "disrespectful" and had a song-like cadence instead of monotone and even. So much awareness about every move you'd make and everything you did.
You need a "Nuance Is Beautiful" T-shirt. I was immediately intrigued when Anthony said his dad grew up Catholic and his mom grew up Methodist. My dad also grew up Catholic, and my mom grew up with Methodist influence from her dad's mom, and then joined the Methodist church when she was in college along with her own mother. When my parents got married, though, my dad was entirely done with the Catholic church, so he joined my mom's church. I always wonder how different my childhood would have been if things had gone the other way. Excellent episode, and I'm glad Anthony has found his way out.
Shelise, thank you so much for having Anthony on. I'm an ex-Traddy FSSP. I still have scars on my knees from kneeling on the hard sanctuary floor during 2hr masses. No priest told me to do this directly but the concept of suffering for other's and one's own soul is pervasive. I saw others doing it and hoped if I did it that god would credit this suffering as holiness to me. This is the first time I have seen anyone speak out publicly about this toxic group. And thank you Anthony for naming names. I know who that priest is and during my time he was considered a "rock star" priest. We all listened to his recorded sermons. The odd part of all this is, I still miss some aspects of the Latin Mass worship (music, ceremony, silence) while at the same time I loath it.
Its so interesting hearing about homeschool co-ops from someone else! My sister and i were some the only mainstream Christians in our co-op. We were with majority pentecostal and Mennonite kids
It is important that we realize that "traditionalists" are folks with a specific view and many of what they think is critical is not actual church teaching and Andrew does a wonderful and respectful job of that. What is scary is that a more traditional view is spreading in the U.S and many newly ordained priest are very conservative. I moved to the South not long ago and found all of the Catholic Churches down here are very conservative , homophobic, Anti Pope Francis etc;. I made the very painful decision after 65 years, having worked for the Church, and even being in the convent for a year to walk away. I have found an open, totally inclusive Episcopal church that has been a great gift for me. These folks are committed to social justice and what I see as the true message of Jesus - love. Thank you for doing this show and sharing your story. Oh, and those sacraments are 1.Baptism, 2.Confirmation, 3. Eucharist, 4.Marriage, 5.Reconciliation(Confession), 6.Anointing of the Sick, and 7.Ordination as Deacon, Priest, Bishop (for men only of course.)
15:00 oh my gosh, yes!!! Our church did "peace be with you" but no one moved from their seats and it was a quiet muttering and very quick. My cousin's Lutheran church would walk around the isles and hug and i was mortified they did that as i was growing up.
Got here late but liked, shared & commented. Up the algorithm!
❤️❤️❤️
52:20 agh, my heart 😭 so few good guys out there these days, it makes me so sad that he has gone through and is still going through this. i wish i could just give him a big hug 😭 anthony, you don’t deserve this. you will overcome this trauma! 💗
Wow!! This was amazing. I'm from a catholic country, like half of Europeans, and it was fantastic listening about catholic traditions and ideas in such a way. I mean, despite not being myself from a religious family, some concepts are so ingraved in our minds that we never question them. The statement "catholics think Jesus founded the Church" was like a punch in my brain 😂😂😂 I've never questioned that idea until this moment! 😂😂 When I listened here, in this channel, what mormons and another cults believe about their foundation, it always seemed incredible to me that anyone can believe it, but this was...hahaha 😂 I can't believe I've never thougth about that particular nonsense.
I also want to point to those who were raised catholic in a protestant country, you don't know how lucky you are! Can you imagine growing up in countries like mine, which have been catholic for more than 1500 years?? Where the Church has been a political and economic power forever? In Spain, we even had a national-catholic dictatorship for 40 years, not so long ago.
Actually the point of Jesus being born to a virgin is to show his divine origins, he obviously couldn’t be born from a human father.
I am looking forward to listening to this episode. I essentially lost half of my family to the SSPX sect. My family learned latin.My brother and sister who are SSPX home schooled their kids. I would like to thank Anthony for sharing his experiences.
Hearing about these strict catholic restrictions that were cut into you so deep really exposed a whole new level of my personal understanding of some truly harsh ideas that are forcibly inscribed thru religion on a person's brain: especially a developing brain, and how that can affect someone's way of life and thinking. Thank you for sharing.❤
This interview was so good - way different, but really so good! I'm from a non-religious family (not even baptized or christened as a baby which was rare back then), but I used to LOVE going to mass with my hardcore catholic high school friend's family as I felt high from the gregorian chanting. After I went a few times, mum put a stop to that lol.
Gregorian chants are just prayers that are sung.
Thank you for sharing with such detail and vulnerability, Anthony. My hope for you is through therapy and self acceptance you can heal.
This is truly sad to hear.
I was raised as a Catholic. SA in the church is something that we all hope isn't true and we try to cling to the notion that the stories you hear are one offs but then you realise it's everywhere.
I was very wary around priests growing up but I consider myself very lucky in the Priests I got to know over my 16 year period with the church.
I never revealed anything to my local priest though that could be held against me. I can remember being very wary about that.
I would go into confession and say the same things as I did the time before
Bless me father for I have sinned, it has been one year since my last confession(usually right before Xmas),
I told lies father
I insulted my mother father
I stole some chewing gum father
It was always vague and stuff that you know everyone before you and after you were saying.
I escaped unscathed but I truly empathise with the members who suffered while with the church. I wish you all the best and hope you manage to find peace with where you are now in life.
OH MY GOSH “Catholics have God and eat him too”
I spent my teen years as Catholic, alter boy and catechism, etc. That just made my day 😂😂😂,
never heard that until now!
HILARIOUS!!
Awesome interview!!! My bio paternal grandfather was, R.I.P., a catholic priest allnof his life. If it wasn't for him breaking those rules, I wouldn't be here. I was raised evangelist , in germany, but went to one catholic mass once. Had I known, i would have worn gym clothing. What a workout, it was horrible
I was taught that the original meaning of "virgin" was "unmarried". Which changes the entire meaning. Not sure about this, but that's what I was told.
Oooh very interesting!
Where/how were you taught that? Was it in school, through a church you attended, or from parents? I'm intrigued that the meaning is completely different than what many of us have been taught. Thanks for sharing!
It's technically true because traditionally and I heard this from a lot of old people regardless of the religion, if you're not married, you're not supposed to have sex hence, you should remain virgin until marriage.
Great show. Wishing only the best for Anthony! He is an inspiration.
OMG this episode is giving me flashbacks to my childhood!!
Thank you for having a Catholic on your show. I am 65 years old and he is spot on. I actually remember the Latin Mass. Income from a very strict Irish-Italian family.
I’m an SSPX Catholic (kinda) I go on occasion. From my understanding the SSPX are valid and no longer in schism but not full communication with Rome. It’s a very complicated thing and I’m what they call “a lukewarm Catholic” I’ve got my own issues with a priest who said some not nice things about my disabled kids. I carry a lot of guilt and I struggle but I feel my relationship with God is good.
That was an amazing Linda Listen. I grew up catholic, but not in the trad group. But when everybody around you is also roman catholic you feel like in a bubble. I left the religion after being fed up with how women and the LGBT+ community are treated.
As a neurodivergent person who grew up in Christianity (German Protistantism/ Evangelic Lutherian) I relate so much to the ex-cult/high demand religion's people's stories, while also my group was not really as high demand.
I find myself wondering whether being neurodivergent might have made me more prone to take the things to heart/at face value, that might not have had as profound on an effect for the neurotypical kids/youth.
Or whether just a family background of (emotional or general) neglect is setting the stage for those of us who had to try to find more in our religion than the kids with a more present/supportive family.
Thank you for talking about (more mainstream) Christianity too, and also about the feeling of being "difficult kid" (likely just based on neuro-divergency).
I really enjoyed this. As a point of reference, there were subsects likes jesuits (what i grew up as tho am no longer a practicing catholic/jesuit) for centuries back. The jesuits were from the 16th century for example or francescians of the 13th century. Part of the jesuit approach we were taught was a questioning of faith, so there were so many differences underneath the umbrella of the catholic church with different views of "traditional". Now, there still were traditional elements, but certainly very different interpretations and approaches. What I find fascinating of listening to this is how different the history of catholicism can be depending on where and when and how you were raised inside the church. Fascinating really and makes sense given how large it was.
Wow. Thank you Anthony for sharing your story with us. I had no idea that Trad Catholics were even a thing. I really connected with many of the things you said about how you came to see issues within the church and how your views have evolved as you educated yourself about the world. You are an extremely effective communicator! I can tell that you are an immense positive influence on the world, just by using your voice and telling your story. Thank you for everything, Anthony! I wish you all the best.
Shelise's face at 1:08:40 is the best part of this fantastic interview.
Bring a Catholic expert. Many mistakes “explained” here.
Yeah, this guy has a weird mix of very detailed accurate knowledge and big mistakes mixed in 🧐
Yes he does not know about Catholic Religion ,he doesn’t even know all the sacraments .He is not explaining catholic religion.He is very confused ,I never heard of what he is talking about.
He is discussing his experience. He has not claimed to be an expert, nor does he need to be to tell his story.
@@Katiebell52 I think a lot of the mistakes cames from his trauma and lack of thorough catholic teachings. That's ironical as he was taught by a very strict priest 🙄
However, Anthony does give info about the teachings of the Catholic Church that aren't technically always true and that's a shame on a channel that aims at bringing the truth to light.
I don't want to dismiss his experience at all though. I frequented a similar parish to the one he went to and I can fully believe that it can be a breeding ground for trauma and abuse.
It was explained at the begining he was a fundamentalist catholic
The commonality between all of these people in false religions/cults is not intelligence...it's emotional, filling an emotional need that each one has. I heard a Psychologist who specializes in cults say "if you think you are too intelligent to fall for a cult (or false religion, ponzi scheme, work cult environment, etc) then you are the most susceptible"! Now that's eye opening...mind blowing!!!!
You see with a lot of the anti-vaxers, many are middle class, educated etc. But they fall down that pipeline somehow, often because they can't accept the fact that autism is most likely genetic
Anthony seems like such a precious person. Wishing him all the best with his journey towards healing 🤍
I grew up going to Latin mass with my grandparents, although they were really only religious for thay hour. 😂 My dad grew up going to Catholic schools in the 60s, before he converted to Mormonism. When the sex abuse scandals came out, he just said, "It wasn't even a secret." His craziest story was of a boy being beaten to a pulp by a nun for having epileptic seizures during class. I'm not sure whether she thought it was misbehavior or demons... but my dad would always say those priests and nuns were some messed up people. He did become Mormon, though.
Yes, a lot of them were messed up. I want to know more about that, and of their stories and why they joined.
On a sidenote; one of the wildest and slightly humorous things I’ve learned about Catholicism is that they really don’t play around with that hour long mass service. That’s blown my mind ever since I learned about it 😂 they have it down pat!
@@lindseyhendrix2405 Yeah, but I love his description. The sitting, standing, and kneeling was really weird to me. All the costumes, candles, and incense felt a bit creepy. And bloody Jesus hanging on the cross grimacing in pain haunted my dreams. But my favorite was that they did have "pax vobiscum," or "peace be upon you" with a handshake. My grandparents wouldn't do that or take communion, as they were huge germophobes.
Oh, it’s my people. My former people. I left the catholic church in August. I was never really faithful but my family is traditionally catholic. As a German, being baptized as a kid also means you pay church tax once you‘re an adult and start working. The money also goes to charitable work they do but they actively oppose fair compensation of their employees.
It was weird to me to learn about how many US fundies perceive catholics. I‘m so used to it being the dominant „fundie“ religion over here.
This guest is great! He is so well informed on the Catholic Church, i learned a lot.
I was raised mainstream Catholic but I'm old enough to well remember Latin masses. I don't remember the "guitar masses" actually happening until i was about 14 or 15, in late 60's early 70's. It was always a tall skinny guy in sandals, but with short hair and glasses As if they never had the nerve to go full hippu. Plus the guitar guys would usually be the creepy youth counselors us girls knew to keep a distance from.
I remember my mother getting involved for a little while in the Catholic charismatic movement in the early 70's. She would come home from the meetings or services in someone's home and be all excited because they spoke in tongues. Luckily she only went to a few of those meetings. But at the time, learning about these people explained the very odd guy in my public high school choir. He was very talented, had a beautiful voice and said he was Catholic. . So i was very mystified about him being Catholic. During any song we were rehearsing that had any connection to god, he would break out in tongues. I could NOT connect that with being Catholic. I loved singing the Hallelujah Chorus and one year we put on a performance of Jesus Christ Superstar. So the speaking in tongues crap was crazy during rehearsals. Very strangely the spirit never overcame came him during actual performances. Looking back I wonder if our choir director had had a word with him. But i finally figured out he must be part of this charismatic movement.
By the time i finally left the Church in the late nineties, my normal seeming congregation was doing that lifting of hands to the sky or spirit or whatever that is. But that did it for me. I figured tongues was next and I was out of there. In truth I had never believed, even as a very small child. I had stayed as my family very much equated ones worth to how Catholic one was. I was a lecter, taught catechism, did choir,alter committee, etc.
I loved you having this guest. I wish to heck i could have had his phrase about eating your god and having it too! Consider that line officially stolen. I cannot wait to use it on my pius cousins. 😂
Extremely appropriate that you posted this on Reformation Day 😂
Wait till people learn about Luther.
I'm a non practicing Catholic and i must say I was taught that we have a loving and forgiving God . Interesting how people's views differ and as you explain how you felt God is a God of suffering i can understand where you are coming from. Great interview....I've been waiting for something on Catholicism.
My word, I was brought up in the roman Catholic Church, didn't even know there was any difference 😮 might watch life of Brian again for old times sake. Love as always to you and your amazing guests ❤
My ex-husband decided to convert to catholicism after we had our first child. We were not religious at all when he decided to do this. I took the classes with him because I enjoy learning. After our classes I would point out how the Catholic teaching makes God seem like a toxic and abusive parent. Of course my opinion was ignored and he converted anyway. He made our marriage very toxic after becoming catholic. He had me terrified that there were demons in our home. He would scream in latin and demand demons to get out of me when we were in disagreement. The priest and other members òf the church encouraged him to continue acting on his new beliefs because his relation with the church came first. They wanted him to do an Interview for some big Catholic magazine about his conversion. The church recently had him give a presentation at family night. Our family was ruined and I had to divorce him to feel safe in my home. I also didnt want our daughters to see that a husband puts a church and priest before his family's needs.
love the spooky shirt! happy late halloween
Thank you! You too!
In Canada, we have the HSLDA. (HomeSchool Legal Defence Association)
They monitor all the students that are enrolled with them to ensure that they are receiving a proper education, and can issue a letter that (if accepted) is equivalent to a high school diploma.
I know of some homeschoolers that dont enroll, and so those kids are left with zero documentation of their education when they grow up.
As a kid, we did the whole "Peace be with you" at our Lutheran Church LOL I've heard jokes about Lutherans as in "are you unsure, a little agnostic? It's OK come to the Lutheran church we accept everyone" 😅
I was raised Lutheran. My Catholic friend (his brother is a priest) used to call me a lazy Catholic. It was a pretty laid back vibe in my experience.
@@bendyrland7213 yup, mine too!
I also grew up a traditional Catholic going to Latin Mass. Literally everything he described is what I experienced from Fraternity priests to self-help exorcism prayers for anxiety and depression. I was always a questioner but was told that as long as I came to the same conclusions as the church at the end of the day, I could think whatever I wanted (yeah, LOL). It wasn’t until moving out as an adult and finally COVID when churches were closed that I finally started to question the premises that I had forced myself to accept. For those who aren’t familiar, the Catechism is like the church’s bible, and traditional Catholics take it as literally as some Protestant denominations take the Bible. It is basically a compendium of the things the church has taught traditionally. Things really only get in there if they were spoken in the pope’s “infallible” capacity from the chair of Peter in matters of faith and morals. Anything the pope says in his infallible capacity is supposed to be directly from the Holy Spirit/god and can never be wrong. So, if from the chair of Peter the CELIBATE MALE pope says that birth control is “intrinsically evil” (direct quote from the catechism) and that if a *married* couple wants to space their kids they can only use natural family planning (which doesn’t suit everyone) then too bad that’s it. Many mainstream Catholics don’t observe this particular teaching, but in the traditional community you are considered a “cafeteria Catholic” if you don’t (meaning you just pick and choose what to want to follow rather than following all of it). For me, the doctrine of infallibility was my ultimate reason for leaving. Any institution that can’t admit that its leader is human and can make mistakes no matter what he is talking about, is just a recipe for oppression and error, especially when women do not have any real say or power in the hierarchy.