Thanks for watching, y'all! Also check out our FULL breakdowns * SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE: ruclips.net/video/BPJqJpDwyGk/видео.html * SUPERMAN II and the Donner Cut: ruclips.net/video/kpf3hCUpZKc/видео.html * SUPERMAN III ruclips.net/video/EBP1jZH08Qg/видео.html * SUPERMAN IV: ruclips.net/video/To1R2QiIXaY/видео.html
As a kid, I always pictured the three of them impaled on giant ice spikes at the bottom of those pits. I was a weird kid. Kind of a weird old guy too I suppose.
@@prodigioussaps Well, the special green crystal from Krypton has nothing physical to grow the building from other than the frozen ice cap over the Arctic sea. I can only imagine the Fortress is made out of glacial ice and rests atop a glacier. I mean, what else could it be? Flat-packed inside the green crystal like IKEA furniture?
@@speetaI never thought that was ice though. To me it seemed like the fortress was made of crystal. And the original crystal that he threw in there must have had some blueprints to create the fortress structure with all those devices (control panel, computer with holograms, power inversion machines etc.). Like, do you think it can do all that but cannot create rooms or different floor levels? We also see this in Superman Returns, where Lex uses Kryptonian tech to grow a crystal island off the coast of the USA. Comics also have his fortress made of crystal.
@@El3ctr0Lun4 Ice IS a crystal. Its structure is formed by the orderly arrangement of water molecules. In this instance, a little more ordered than natural thanks to the complex pattern contained in the Kryptonian crystal.
As a kid, I totally thought he (really, they - we see you, Lois, we see you) killed them, but also that they had it coming for killing the astronauts at the beginning of the film. I was a crazy big space buff already at 6, still am today - I don't take kindly to offworlders killing our astronauts.
The fact they're never shown again is probably a good reason why as kid, you assume they died. Zod would most likely die after being super-thrown in that wall then falling 30' into who knows what.
@@Durwood71Well, he did deserved it. He broke into the Fortress of Solitude with unlawful entry. He killed a robot guard in the beginning, and he caused harm and cruelty to a lot of civilians including some who sadly he killed!.
Yeah, you noticed Zod was pretty powerfully strong on Krpton, I mean afterNon snaps the guards neck, Zod comes into frame, pulls out a crystal and just breaks it in two! He must have gone thru some insanely intense combative training while working his way up to General!
As a kid, I DEFINITELY thought he killed them...but weirdly it wasn't until this very moment that I even thought about the fact that I had assumed Superman just straight up executed these three people.
That was at the end of the first Superman film. Miss Tessmacher hanging by chains over the tiger and lion pit. Miss Tessmacher: "Why Lex? Why?" Lex Luthor: "Because I love you!" Lex then drops her 😂😂 Superman swoops in and saves her. Superman: "Hello, Miss Tessmacher. Your mother sends her regards." A nod to Miss Tessmacher that he saved her mother in Hackensack, New Jersey from the second missile. After Lex dropping her into a pit of hungry tigers and lions, and bombing her mother, Miss Tessmacher still loves Lex enough to break him out or prison with a hot air balloon.
One theory I propose is that Superman put them back in the Phantom Zone? The Fortress of Solitude has a number of secrets, Superman clearly planned this all out in advance by reversing the controls in the Fortress to take away their powers while he was safe in that chamber. Whats more the Fortress was composed of Kryptonian technology, so it's possible.
Zod seems to be walking pretty well for someone whose hand is a sock full of tomato soup. That’s one of the reasons they cut the scene, it doesn’t make sense. Zod, Non and Ursa wouldn’t be able to just walk that off what just happened to them. Deleted scenes don’t happen.
I did too. Even if Kryptonians were resistant to extreme cold because their world had been an ice planet for thousands of years. Encased in ice ? It's fairly easy to die of exposure. I think it would have been smarter to have Superman pull out his pocket phantom zone device and return them to the zone. Heck put Luthor in there too.
So did I! But learning that they weren't meant to die in the script changed things for me. It's one of those things left up in the air because Donner was never able to finish shooting.
@ incorrect. That was your assumption or interpretation. Huge difference. Maybe one day humanity will learn to distinguish fact from opinion. It would be really helpful.
Never thought they were dead. Because Superman doesn’t kill people. Now, maybe with all of the new interpretations of Superman with all the darkness, maybe his character has taken some hits, but that’s why this 1978 Superman was the best representation of him. Too much of the current cultural climate has been superimposed on Superman.
They were human now... that hit on the wall alone would have KILLED Zod! and the way Ursa fell, EVEN WORSE! So, no, they would have been in agonizing pain AT LEAST!
@@rijoenpial You are perfectly right. knock them out, at the very least. They also weren't dressed for arctic conditions. Hypothermia would have set in rather quickly. I suspect the writers of those movies were either drunk or unconcerned. We forget, sometimes, that while we fans just love our movies and TV shows and actually love discussing the complexities of the plotting and Characters, the writers, directors etc might not give a darn. Comics in my time were for kids. My very strict Italian mother informed me of that fact when I was in my early teens. They didn't think adults would actually care about the details of the plots.
@@RictusHolloweye Batman was also a killer at the beginning until they very quickly realized it would be sending a wrong message to, as well as ALIENATE their target audience, KIDS! Same with Superman!
@@RictusHolloweye Nah, not the first. Zod first appeared in 1961, and he made many more appearances after that. You're thinking of the John Byrne reboot in the 1980s, and that was the Zod of a parallel "pocket universe."
The Fortress clearly has a snow covered floor, which is seen more clearly in both the 3 hour version of the first film and in the Donner Cut of the second film. This is why people were confused.
Whether Zod died or not is not the point, there's no way superman could've have known Zod would survive being thrown into a wall and then falling how ever many stories. It was attempted murder.
No wonder Superman destroys the Fortress afterwards ... in another cut sequence. Clark Kent -- without powers -- manages to WALK to the Fortress, and the "Arctic Patrol" knows where it is so they can pick up Zod, Ursa, and Non. And, presumably, Lex. Seriously, were the writers convinced that the Fortress is in Alaska or something?
I don't think they ever told the audience where it was.. It's like Krypton, it was 'out there somewhere' . Have they ever told us which galaxy and which constellation (from Earth's perspective) in any comics, movies or shows? I loved looking at star maps and finding the star (systems) on Star Trek, and generally, all science fiction. I begged for a telescope at the age that most girls beg for Barbie. Once, in "Lois and Clark" Superman agreed he was a Pisces, in that version of Superman he arrived May 17th, 1966 or so, but the way the question was couched it was his birth sign, not his place of origin. It was supposed to be near the north pole .. that is in the arctic sea - wouldn't make much sense to put on moving ice (and the ice does move) so it has to be directly south of that - mostly likely Canada. So was the arctic patrol actually Canadian Mounties? I'm overthinking this again, aren't I?
@@kali3665 Eh, international cut, shminternational shmut. When I saw it in the theater, the scene wasn't there. When you watch it on tape or on streaming, it isn't there. If you watch it on DVD, it's only there in the deleted scenes. If you have to "look for it," that means it's easy to ignore if you want to. It's a pretty dumb scene, so I want to.
Nothing that happens in cut scenes is cannon. That's why they're cut. The villains are dead & Superman & Lois killed them (well, Non killed himself, but you get the point).
That doesn't mean that they are dead. Otis and Eve didn't show up in the latter films, but that doesn't mean that they were dead. By that logic, Lana and Ricky Lang were dead because they weren't in the fourth film. Zod, Ursa and Non were locked up and powerless.
@RictusHolloweye What pit? They fell to the floor. They didn't return because there were no plans to do so. Donner and Mankawicz were going to introduce Brainiac, before they were fired. Ilya Salkind wanted to use Brainiac and Myxzpltk, but was talked out of it. That's why we had Ross Webster and Evil Superman. The fourth film was designed around two Nuclear Men.
I confess I never knew what happened to the rogue Kryptonians that got knocked down the ice slides or whatever. However, knowing Supes, I never just assumed that they were killed. I figured that they went to some sort of prison down there, or maybe transported back to their flying album cover.
As a kid i was sure he killed them. While superman doesn't kill humans, zod wanted to kill all humans to make a point he was too dangerous to be left alive. Maybe his powers could have come back eventually
Well if they really did die Lois is a Murderer too Because she caused Ursa to fall to her death lol. Non offed himself by thinking he could still fly. While Superman ended General Zod's life ..wow
Debatably these are all justifiable homicides, but it still seemed weird to me as a kid that they were kinda laughing when Lois did what she did, because I thought they were for sure dead
As a kid, I totally thought the 3 villains died. My first thought was that they would die from the fall. Secondly, if they somehow survived that, they would either freeze to death in that pit (because it looked cold) or they would starve to death down there. Either way, I thought they were all goners.
Same, I never presumed Superman killed them. I thought the whole scene was to basically show that Superman defeated Zod by outsmarting him, not outright killing him. That's why I was upset with the newer Superman movie. I never thought that was in Superman's character. If you start to overthink it a bit, then yeah I guess maybe they die from the fall. But if it was Superman's intent to kill them, why didn't he just zap them with his eye beams the moment he got out of that chamber? It's a movie you say? Well I'll say the same for when they fall... they're just exiting the scene after being defeated because... its a movie.
m 13 when I saw this in the cinema and I absolutely never thought for a moment that Zod or either of the other two villains were dead. Yes, Supes broke Zod's hand but I always assumed that they were handed over to the US or the UN off screen to be held in prison and to face a trial for their crimes. I can't imagine why anyone would think anything else? And of course, the villains would have had an opportunity in the future to regain their powers and to seek their revenge on Superman and the world.
Back then it seemed that both quicksand and bottomless pits came up alot in the pop culture of the era. So I naturally thought they fell into bottomless pits, and not necessarily that Superman kiilled them. And I was okay with that both morally and felt like justice was served, kind of like they were back in the phantom zone.
I thought it was like a Disney cartoon. Falling from a height is the typical end for Disney villains, like Lucifer the cat in Cinderella. Parents tell their kids that well, you know, he's probably ok. They keep it to themselves that he's one dead kitty.
I thought they all fell to their deaths but I thought it was justified since all of them committed multiple cold-blooded murders. And I never noticed that the Krypton villains were also being taken away by the "Arctic Police." Silly scene and I'm glad it was cut.
There’s a bigger question regarding the cutscene…..Luthor is seen outside the fortress in only a suit with no winter gear. Why isn’t he freezing? You can see why it was cut.
It does beg the question why didn't the Kryptonians remove their capacity to have powers and banish them to a yellow sun but I guess it would have been a short movie.
They probably thought the prison they had was more than enough. Authorities have a habit of thinking their prison is inescapable….until someone escapes.
Jor-El and Lara knew that the yellow sun would grant Kal-El powers. Zod and Ursa didn't. The Phantom Zone was very secure and the odds of a nuclear blast in space were astronomical.
I always thought he killed them. Worse, I thought Louis actually killed one of them. Actually even worse, I thought he killed them and then just left the bodies to freeze and sit there forever. I also wondered why the fortress is so unsafe for guests. One wrong step and your falling into a pit and he'll just shrug and leave your body there forever.
I argue with people about this *all the time*. I remember seeing the Arctic Police scene decades ago, so I knew that Zod and the others had been intended to survive. People keep saying "but... but... he throws them into a bottomless pit!" Well, first off, they fall into fog. We can't see where they end up. It could be a room full of pillows for all we know. They could be caught in an anti-gravity beam of some sort. Any number of things. But even ignoring that, there is nothing in the film (or the first one) to suggest that Superman is a homicidal maniac, which he would have to be to throw people to their deaths with a smile. It's far easier to believe that this one ambiguous scene leaves them alive, than it is to believe the depiction of Superman across 2 films as a good, moral person is a lie.
I never thought they were dead. Especially since Superman is smiling and generally being jovial afterwards. Because if it were true that he killed them all and reacted this way, he'd actually be a disturbed individual, and thats not Superman
@@prodigioussaps I'll have to look at the Donner cut again, but I thought the Arctic police arrested Lex before Superman and Lois flew away a distance and Suoerman destroyed the Fortress. After all, how else would Lex be able to create Nuclear Man in Superman IV? Besides, the 3 Kryptonian villains are deserving of death, and that's the only way to stop them (on Earth). On the other hand, Lex is a criminal, but the proper justice for him is prison (besides, he's actually kind of likable, at least the way Gene Hackman portrayed him).
The Arctic police thing is only in a cut scene. But yeah, that’s kind of my point… I don’t think we’re meant to believe that he died in that explosion.
Zod is executed by Superman for all of the people they killed and for enslaving the entire world. Ursa is executed by Lois for the same,but you can't have Superman execute a woman. Non is accidently responsible for his own death because you can't really have a good guy execute someone who was mentally unfit and being taken advantage of. The scene is removed so it didn't happen,and what most likely happened happened. Zod in the water. This is why I was upset at the Man of Steel ending. Not for the execution,but for how long it took him to do it. Also for stripping Zod of his personal conscious choices to take over and blaming it on genetics. Also for the fact that he could have kryptoformed any other planet apparently. Also the "But what happens to us" line. Also various other things but HERE I'm talking about killing the bad guy to save the innocent.
The more y'all talk about this issue, the more I wish Donner had come up a better way to display what happen to the Kyptonians because like many others, I thought he killed them. But in Donner's cut, we saw what really happen to them. maybe Donner should have directed that scene differently.
Well, it’s only in a cut scene. Donner opted not to include that Artic Patrol scene, and I think that was probably wise because the idea that local authorities knew how to access the Fortress is a little silly. But in the actual Donner Cut we also don’t see Luthor leave the Fortress before Superman blows it up with his heat vision, and I don’t think we’re meant to assume Luthor died in that explosion.
The scene of Lex Luthor and three villains from Krypton should have been restored and put back in the Richard Donner Cut. I say that because audiences who have seen the Richard Donner Cut won't think Superman killed Lex Luthor when he disintegrated the Fortress of Solitude with heat vision.
I actually thought they were dead because those falls would have BROKEN them at best, and KILLED them at worst! They were human now, with fragile bones! Also, by being alive, it would just be a matter of time before they would regain their powers! We do not even know if that was a permanent or a temporary loss of powers! I for one am GLAD the theatrical and even the director's cut did not keep this in!
Yo, how are y'all doing? Will you talk about the Reevesverse Penguin? The season finale was great! Anyway, loving all the Superman content you guys put out!
The arctic police took them a way to jail so in superman III they escape and get there powers back if Donner did part III that’s why the arctic police seen happened
I think this would be the difference between US and International releases, when I first saw the movie here, those scenes were included and when i bought the DVD and saw the movie, i felt like something was missing and didn't know exactly what... then i saw these scenes on RUclips and didn't understand why they were not included in the movie itself! I also remember being told by friends in the US that there was a TV broadcast of the movie and that did have lots of scenes that were not seen in the Cinema! Also, anyone who reads comics knows, if there's no body, then nobody is dead!
There was never a time when I thought he killed them. I just figured it was a big snowdrift he threw them into. But I've had plenty of arguments with people that were convinced he killed them. And when you show them the script or deleted scene, "It doesn't count cause it wasn't the official theatrical version" 🤦
I rotflmao over the Red Krypton sun removing Kryptonian power. what it does is make them mortal, needing to breathe, eat, and drink, and have hair and nails needing to be cut. etc. What they should have done if Clark wanted to marry Lois is use a clear Kryptonite crystal belt buckle to relax and control his powers so he could be an earthling.
That wasn't the problem. Clark could not be with Lois because his duty to the world meant that he could not be distracted by a relationship. DC was not ready for Superman to be married and a father in 1977, as opposed to 1996 and 2015.
Thank you! I saw this when I was a kid and didn't see where they landed, so I never assumed they just died. I figured, they're human now and so they just have nowhere to go and nobody but each other. It's the Fortress of Solitude. Who are we to say?
Soooo.... Superman broke all the bones in Zod's, now human, hand - threw him at speed into a solid hard wall upon which he fell down a large distance into a deep, bottomless beyond vision, crevice......and somehow he survived? - no he's dead, very dead, his body crushed and broken.
OK here's something that always played on my mind - when Lois punches Ursa - I could have sworn in the cinema back in the day she said "You're a real pain in the A$$" - but I think that every time I've seen it at home (DVD/Blu-ray/Streamed etc) she says "neck" - has it always been neck? if so - I've just remembered it wrong! - if anyone knows I'd be grateful - thanks
Several other people have said that, and I think it's an easy thing to mishear or misremember. It is scripted as "pain in the neck". If an alternate line reading exists, I've never seen it. Although I wish it did. Cheers 👊
The arctic police thing is dumb as hell but it completely nails what silver age Superman was like. Also, not that realism matters here but Antarctica is a demilitarized zone so those ice cops wouldn't be allowed to have guns, lol.
Never thought of that, but I dig it! I think it would have been really satisfying if he had sent them back into the Phantom Zone afterwards... i'm kind of surprised they didn't script it that way.
I'm sorry, but deleted scenes are not canon. The three Kryptonians are dead in canon. You also skip the fact that Superman also crushes Zod's genitalia. Crushed hand, genitalia, throws him to his death. Deleted scenes are cool, but that's what's shown on camera.
@@prodigioussaps LoL! When it's combined with a crushed hand and then being thrown against a wall and then falling at least 30 feet, yes. Honestly, I never understood why everyone was outraged with Cavill's neck snap because I always thought Reeve did the aforementioned horrors to Zod.
@ShinAdamSmasher That is a somewhat fair comparison. But, I will say, while that cut scene definitely IS NOT canon (the Arctic Patrol thing alone is reason enough to cut that baby), I don't consider their deaths to be canon because they literally did not shoot death scenes for them. We don't see them die, because their deaths were never scripted. It's one of these things that can't really be proven one way or the other.
He’s clearly not killed on impact as evidenced by his yelling as he _slides_ down the sloped wall. As for Superman “crippling” his hand, the sound does not necessarily reflect what happened since you couldn’t realistically hear all that nor would it sound exactly like that. Plus, these films detach themselves from reality given by how sloppily they handle details like him changing costumes or other movie physics. Plus the jerk in the bar he gets revenge on would be far worse off from the blunt force trauma he sustained. Tl;dr, no, I never thought he killed them.🧐
@Andy-Bodhi The destruction of the Fortress wasn't in the theatrical release, so it's not considered canon to the fourth movie... I mean, to whatever extent that either III or IV gave a crap about canon, which isn't much, really!
Yeah, apparently that cut scene was never shown in its entirety until they released the Donner Cut, where they included it as an extra. Part of the scene had previously been included in extended cuts (and the international cut, I think) but didn't clearly show the villains were there. Cheers 👊
Have you done a video on why Ursa grabbed her hand as if it hurt when bit by the snake. I always found that odd. Also, breathing and talking is space with no oxygen. Any video on that. Do Kryptonians require oxygen?
We didn't dig into either those, but we should. I'm planning on a follow-up video, sort of an FAQ for Superman II. Several people have asked about the snake bite, and I wanted to mention the talking in space thing but forgot to mention it in the full episode. As for whether Kryptonians can breathe in space, no, but they can go for great lengths of time without breathing. They changed that in the comics in the late 80s, where Superman requires an oxygen mask if he's in space for an extended length of time. Back when these movies were made, Superman in the comics didn't need an oxygen mask ever, if I recall correctly. Cheers 👊
In the theatrical cut, it seemed that Superman did kill them cause everyone in the theater thought the same thing! Richard Donner's cut and the ABC television version show them being taken away by the police....which everyone knows where Superman lives....Ironic! I am sure when Superman "fled", he made preparations prior to Zod coming to the fortress....well obviously right? LOL
As a 10 year old boy watching this for the first time, it never crossed my mind that he killed them, just that they fell down a hole. Didn't think anymore of it... mind you killing is not real when your 10 years old, like soldiers fighting or cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians, death doesn't seem to mean anything.... other than your out of the game.
I'm pretty sure the typical 10-year-old knows what death means. It's just that the typical 10-year-old never has to face death in the real world........
@ there were a lot of strange things in the script and scenes they shot. A lot of it didn’t work, which is why Donner left it out, but I think Lester gets too much flack for making the films sillier when we can see that it was always the Newman’s from Day 1. As a kid I never really thought about them dying in the fortress, that came later as a teen, but like you said, we just see them disappear. I started writing a story as a teen where they come back and are powered again.
Thanks for watching, y'all! Also check out our FULL breakdowns
* SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE:
ruclips.net/video/BPJqJpDwyGk/видео.html
* SUPERMAN II and the Donner Cut:
ruclips.net/video/kpf3hCUpZKc/видео.html
* SUPERMAN III
ruclips.net/video/EBP1jZH08Qg/видео.html
* SUPERMAN IV:
ruclips.net/video/To1R2QiIXaY/видео.html
Don't worry about the Arctic Police. Superman kisses them and makes them forget.
LOL... Of course! Every time, the poor guys.
He's the oG Man In Black.
@@senjutsu-walrus2847 that’s the reason why he wears a black suit…..!
@@miller-joel Hypnosis!
@joshuasteward6097 "It was just hypnosis, Your Honor!"
It just occurred to me, that Mount Rushmore still to this day has the heads of Zod Washington, Ursa Jefferson, Non Roosevelt and no Lincoln!!!
As a kid, I always pictured the three of them impaled on giant ice spikes at the bottom of those pits.
I was a weird kid.
Kind of a weird old guy too I suppose.
Sort of imagination I had at that age too. Playing a lot of Mortal Kombat does that I guess.
"When I get home, I'm smackin your mommaRightInThe mouth!"
As a Kid, I didn't think Superman killed them. I figured they were frozen or in jail. I didn't think he would kill them... it's not his way.
Falling into a crevasse in a glacier? That always looked pretty fatal.
Well, technically the Fortress is not a glacier, it's a Kryptonian building. But that's a fair point. We don't know what's down there.
@@prodigioussaps Well, the special green crystal from Krypton has nothing physical to grow the building from other than the frozen ice cap over the Arctic sea. I can only imagine the Fortress is made out of glacial ice and rests atop a glacier. I mean, what else could it be? Flat-packed inside the green crystal like IKEA furniture?
@@speeta Yep. Dey dead.
@@speetaI never thought that was ice though. To me it seemed like the fortress was made of crystal. And the original crystal that he threw in there must have had some blueprints to create the fortress structure with all those devices (control panel, computer with holograms, power inversion machines etc.). Like, do you think it can do all that but cannot create rooms or different floor levels?
We also see this in Superman Returns, where Lex uses Kryptonian tech to grow a crystal island off the coast of the USA.
Comics also have his fortress made of crystal.
@@El3ctr0Lun4 Ice IS a crystal. Its structure is formed by the orderly arrangement of water molecules. In this instance, a little more ordered than natural thanks to the complex pattern contained in the Kryptonian crystal.
As a kid, I thought they died from the fall. The pit appears to be deep.
Until this day I thought they were dead. Those pits just carry straight on down and they’re lost to the bowels of the Earth.
Yeah, it was an odd choice to film it that way if it wasn't meant to be a death scene, I agree.
I always assumed Superman straight up murdered them, but it's played with such lighthearted zeal that the audience is not compelled to dwell on it.
@@Durwood71 This.
Exactly
As a kid, I totally thought he (really, they - we see you, Lois, we see you) killed them, but also that they had it coming for killing the astronauts at the beginning of the film. I was a crazy big space buff already at 6, still am today - I don't take kindly to offworlders killing our astronauts.
I never thought he killed them. I just assumed that whatever they landed on killed them.
😂😂😂
Plus it's like minus 50 degrees celcius and Lex Luther is just wearing a suit.
The Fortress of Solitude is Kryptonian technology. I'm sure it has central air. lol
@@Skipper-j2z Louis or Lois haha
If you fall 20+ feet onto a hard crystal surface, you’re going to be badly injured, if not killed.
The fact they're never shown again is probably a good reason why as kid, you assume they died. Zod would most likely die after being super-thrown in that wall then falling 30' into who knows what.
It'd be funny if they did a crossover into Star Wars world, where the villains were eaten by the Sarlacc.
I always thought that he had set it up so they were dropped into the Phantom Zone.
ME TOO!!!! LMAO
Now that would make a ton of sense.
He at least crippled Zod's right hand for life.
Yeah, that was pretty cold.
@@Durwood71 😏
@@Durwood71Well, he did deserved it. He broke into the Fortress of Solitude with unlawful entry. He killed a robot guard in the beginning, and he caused harm and cruelty to a lot of civilians including some who sadly he killed!.
Yeah, you noticed Zod was pretty powerfully strong on Krpton, I mean afterNon snaps the guards neck, Zod comes into frame, pulls out a crystal and just breaks it in two! He must have gone thru some insanely intense combative training while working his way up to General!
As a kid, I DEFINITELY thought he killed them...but weirdly it wasn't until this very moment that I even thought about the fact that I had assumed Superman just straight up executed these three people.
Actually only one...another guy fell of his own accord, and Lois offed the woman.
There's another deleted scene where Lex is about to unalive Miss Teschmacher by lowering her into a pit of lions and tigers.
That was at the end of the first Superman film.
Miss Tessmacher hanging by chains over the tiger and lion pit.
Miss Tessmacher: "Why Lex? Why?"
Lex Luthor: "Because I love you!"
Lex then drops her 😂😂 Superman swoops in and saves her.
Superman: "Hello, Miss Tessmacher. Your mother sends her regards."
A nod to Miss Tessmacher that he saved her mother in Hackensack, New Jersey from the second missile.
After Lex dropping her into a pit of hungry tigers and lions, and bombing her mother, Miss Tessmacher still loves Lex enough to break him out or prison with a hot air balloon.
It never crossed my mind that they *didn't* all die.
One theory I propose is that Superman put them back in the Phantom Zone? The Fortress of Solitude has a number of secrets, Superman clearly planned this all out in advance by reversing the controls in the Fortress to take away their powers while he was safe in that chamber. Whats more the Fortress was composed of Kryptonian technology, so it's possible.
Zod seems to be walking pretty well for someone whose hand is a sock full of tomato soup. That’s one of the reasons they cut the scene, it doesn’t make sense. Zod, Non and Ursa wouldn’t be able to just walk that off what just happened to them. Deleted scenes don’t happen.
As a kid myself. I always assumed they were sent back to the Phantom Zone
Definitely thought they were dead.
I did too. Even if Kryptonians were resistant to extreme cold because their world had been an ice planet for thousands of years. Encased in ice ? It's fairly easy to die of exposure. I think it would have been smarter to have Superman pull out his pocket phantom zone device and return them to the zone. Heck put Luthor in there too.
I never thought they were dead.
I was shocked, as an adult, that all these people thought otherwise.
So did I! But learning that they weren't meant to die in the script changed things for me. It's one of those things left up in the air because Donner was never able to finish shooting.
That's because they were until this scene that apparently wasn't in the original happened
@ incorrect.
That was your assumption or interpretation. Huge difference.
Maybe one day humanity will learn to distinguish fact from opinion. It would be really helpful.
And here I thought Supes was doing what Burton's Bats was doing: murdering his enemies so they don't return.
Never thought they were dead. Because Superman doesn’t kill people. Now, maybe with all of the new interpretations of Superman with all the darkness, maybe his character has taken some hits, but that’s why this 1978 Superman was the best representation of him. Too much of the current cultural climate has been superimposed on Superman.
They were human now... that hit on the wall alone would have KILLED Zod! and the way Ursa fell, EVEN WORSE! So, no, they would have been in agonizing pain AT LEAST!
@@rijoenpial You are perfectly right. knock them out, at the very least. They also weren't dressed for arctic conditions. Hypothermia would have set in rather quickly. I suspect the writers of those movies were either drunk or unconcerned. We forget, sometimes, that while we fans just love our movies and TV shows and actually love discussing the complexities of the plotting and Characters, the writers, directors etc might not give a darn. Comics in my time were for kids. My very strict Italian mother informed me of that fact when I was in my early teens. They didn't think adults would actually care about the details of the plots.
Superman killed Zod in his very first appearance in the comics.
@@RictusHolloweye Batman was also a killer at the beginning until they very quickly realized it would be sending a wrong message to, as well as ALIENATE their target audience, KIDS! Same with Superman!
@@RictusHolloweye Nah, not the first. Zod first appeared in 1961, and he made many more appearances after that. You're thinking of the John Byrne reboot in the 1980s, and that was the Zod of a parallel "pocket universe."
They slid down to the rumpus room.
RUMPUS ROOM CONFIRMED 👊
The Fortress clearly has a snow covered floor, which is seen more clearly in both the 3 hour version of the first film and in the Donner Cut of the second film. This is why people were confused.
Who remembers Lex Luthor feeding Miss Tessmacher to lions in the first one?
Yes, that was in the extended TV version.
Whether Zod died or not is not the point, there's no way superman could've have known Zod would survive being thrown into a wall and then falling how ever many stories. It was attempted murder.
No wonder Superman destroys the Fortress afterwards ... in another cut sequence. Clark Kent -- without powers -- manages to WALK to the Fortress, and the "Arctic Patrol" knows where it is so they can pick up Zod, Ursa, and Non. And, presumably, Lex.
Seriously, were the writers convinced that the Fortress is in Alaska or something?
I don't think they ever told the audience where it was.. It's like Krypton, it was 'out there somewhere' . Have they ever told us which galaxy and which constellation (from Earth's perspective) in any comics, movies or shows? I loved looking at star maps and finding the star (systems) on Star Trek, and generally, all science fiction. I begged for a telescope at the age that most girls beg for Barbie. Once, in "Lois and Clark" Superman agreed he was a Pisces, in that version of Superman he arrived May 17th, 1966 or so, but the way the question was couched it was his birth sign, not his place of origin. It was supposed to be near the north pole .. that is in the arctic sea - wouldn't make much sense to put on moving ice (and the ice does move) so it has to be directly south of that - mostly likely Canada. So was the arctic patrol actually Canadian Mounties?
I'm overthinking this again, aren't I?
It’s a deleted scene, so not worth thinking about much. It’s not part of the official release.
@@newsduke But it is in the International Cut. Which you can find if you look for it.
@@kali3665 Eh, international cut, shminternational shmut. When I saw it in the theater, the scene wasn't there. When you watch it on tape or on streaming, it isn't there. If you watch it on DVD, it's only there in the deleted scenes. If you have to "look for it," that means it's easy to ignore if you want to. It's a pretty dumb scene, so I want to.
@@newsdukedon’t hold back. Tell us how you really feel.
Nothing that happens in cut scenes is cannon. That's why they're cut. The villains are dead & Superman & Lois killed them (well, Non killed himself, but you get the point).
How do you know they’re dead, though?
@@prodigioussaps - because they were never heard from again.
That doesn't mean that they are dead. Otis and Eve didn't show up in the latter films, but that doesn't mean that they were dead. By that logic, Lana and Ricky Lang were dead because they weren't in the fourth film. Zod, Ursa and Non were locked up and powerless.
@@mat0018 - We never saw Otis or Lana thrown into a pit.
@RictusHolloweye What pit? They fell to the floor. They didn't return because there were no plans to do so. Donner and Mankawicz were going to introduce Brainiac, before they were fired. Ilya Salkind wanted to use Brainiac and Myxzpltk, but was talked out of it. That's why we had Ross Webster and Evil Superman. The fourth film was designed around two Nuclear Men.
I always thought that they fell into a Chucky Cheese's ball pit.
I always just assumed they were killed.............
I confess I never knew what happened to the rogue Kryptonians that got knocked down the ice slides or whatever. However, knowing Supes, I never just assumed that they were killed. I figured that they went to some sort of prison down there, or maybe transported back to their flying album cover.
As a kid i was sure he killed them. While superman doesn't kill humans, zod wanted to kill all humans to make a point he was too dangerous to be left alive. Maybe his powers could have come back eventually
Superman should have played along a while longer just to see what they tried to do.
Well if they really did die Lois is a Murderer too Because she caused Ursa to fall to her death lol. Non offed himself by thinking he could still fly. While Superman ended General Zod's life ..wow
In the Lester cut yes but in the Donner cut
Debatably these are all justifiable homicides, but it still seemed weird to me as a kid that they were kinda laughing when Lois did what she did, because I thought they were for sure dead
i never thought they'd died either. i always suspected they went into suspended animation (frozen) or into some other kind of containment.
As a kid, I totally thought the 3 villains died. My first thought was that they would die from the fall. Secondly, if they somehow survived that, they would either freeze to death in that pit (because it looked cold) or they would starve to death down there. Either way, I thought they were all goners.
Same, I never presumed Superman killed them. I thought the whole scene was to basically show that Superman defeated Zod by outsmarting him, not outright killing him. That's why I was upset with the newer Superman movie. I never thought that was in Superman's character.
If you start to overthink it a bit, then yeah I guess maybe they die from the fall. But if it was Superman's intent to kill them, why didn't he just zap them with his eye beams the moment he got out of that chamber? It's a movie you say? Well I'll say the same for when they fall... they're just exiting the scene after being defeated because... its a movie.
They’re dead. No superpowers, hitting that ice water below is instant hyperthermia. I’m not hating on Superman he had to do it.
@@northprime_unlimited hyPOthermia
@ thank you
@@northprime_unlimited now you know why don't you edit your comment ?
@@christophe2092 what……..?
@@northprime_unlimited why don't you edit your comment to change "hyperthermia" to "hypothermia" ???
I thought they were put into stasis because the vision pauses when they go into that smoky pit.
m 13 when I saw this in the cinema and I absolutely never thought for a moment that Zod or either of the other two villains were dead.
Yes, Supes broke Zod's hand but I always assumed that they were handed over to the US or the UN off screen to be held in prison and to face a trial for their crimes.
I can't imagine why anyone would think anything else?
And of course, the villains would have had an opportunity in the future to regain their powers and to seek their revenge on Superman and the world.
Don’t they have different rules and powers on Krypton like hulahoop jails and flying glass pane prisons?
Back then it seemed that both quicksand and bottomless pits came up alot in the pop culture of the era. So I naturally thought they fell into bottomless pits, and not necessarily that Superman kiilled them. And I was okay with that both morally and felt like justice was served, kind of like they were back in the phantom zone.
I guess we now know the Fortress of Solitude is in Alaska
I thought it was like a Disney cartoon. Falling from a height is the typical end for Disney villains, like Lucifer the cat in Cinderella. Parents tell their kids that well, you know, he's probably ok. They keep it to themselves that he's one dead kitty.
I thought they all fell to their deaths but I thought it was justified since all of them committed multiple cold-blooded murders. And I never noticed that the Krypton villains were also being taken away by the "Arctic Police." Silly scene and I'm glad it was cut.
There’s a bigger question regarding the cutscene…..Luthor is seen outside the fortress in only a suit with no winter gear. Why isn’t he freezing? You can see why it was cut.
Yeah good catch - there’s a lot of problems with that scene.
@@jduk1818 Luthor has some supernatural abilities ever since he was exposed to kryptonite as a kid in smallville
@@NitpickingNerd That may be true for comics etc but was that established in the movies? I don’t recall it being there and if not it wouldn’t apply.
It does beg the question why didn't the Kryptonians remove their capacity to have powers and banish them to a yellow sun but I guess it would have been a short movie.
Ha, yeah that sounds like a job for HISHE (How It Should Have Ended)
They probably thought the prison they had was more than enough. Authorities have a habit of thinking their prison is inescapable….until someone escapes.
Jor-El and Lara knew that the yellow sun would grant Kal-El powers. Zod and Ursa didn't. The Phantom Zone was very secure and the odds of a nuclear blast in space were astronomical.
I always thought he killed them. Worse, I thought Louis actually killed one of them. Actually even worse, I thought he killed them and then just left the bodies to freeze and sit there forever. I also wondered why the fortress is so unsafe for guests. One wrong step and your falling into a pit and he'll just shrug and leave your body there forever.
All three got dumped into the friend zone. They were better off dead.
Ha, which is worse? The Phantom Zone or the Friend Zone?
I argue with people about this *all the time*. I remember seeing the Arctic Police scene decades ago, so I knew that Zod and the others had been intended to survive. People keep saying "but... but... he throws them into a bottomless pit!"
Well, first off, they fall into fog. We can't see where they end up. It could be a room full of pillows for all we know. They could be caught in an anti-gravity beam of some sort. Any number of things. But even ignoring that, there is nothing in the film (or the first one) to suggest that Superman is a homicidal maniac, which he would have to be to throw people to their deaths with a smile. It's far easier to believe that this one ambiguous scene leaves them alive, than it is to believe the depiction of Superman across 2 films as a good, moral person is a lie.
I never thought they were dead. Especially since Superman is smiling and generally being jovial afterwards. Because if it were true that he killed them all and reacted this way, he'd actually be a disturbed individual, and thats not Superman
I agree.
Wow… all these years, I totally thought Supes and Lois killed them lol.
I never thought he killed them.
They disappeared into that fog.
Love the logic people try to explain in fantasy superhero movies.
It fuels my soul. 😁
In the Donner cut, Superman does destroy the Fortress of Solitude with his heat vision/lasers, so I guess he does kill them after all.
Yeah, along with Lex, apparently! A little bit of an awkward moment.
@@prodigioussaps I'll have to look at the Donner cut again, but I thought the Arctic police arrested Lex before Superman and Lois flew away a distance and Suoerman destroyed the Fortress. After all, how else would Lex be able to create Nuclear Man in Superman IV? Besides, the 3 Kryptonian villains are deserving of death, and that's the only way to stop them (on Earth). On the other hand, Lex is a criminal, but the proper justice for him is prison (besides, he's actually kind of likable, at least the way Gene Hackman portrayed him).
The Arctic police thing is only in a cut scene. But yeah, that’s kind of my point… I don’t think we’re meant to believe that he died in that explosion.
I always assumed they'd be frozen down there
Best ending for Superman 2 would have been for Superman to reconstruct a phantom zone projector and send all three back to the phantom zone
My last reply seems to have gotten lost... I agree 100%
Zod is executed by Superman for all of the people they killed and for enslaving the entire world. Ursa is executed by Lois for the same,but you can't have Superman execute a woman. Non is accidently responsible for his own death because you can't really have a good guy execute someone who was mentally unfit and being taken advantage of. The scene is removed so it didn't happen,and what most likely happened happened. Zod in the water.
This is why I was upset at the Man of Steel ending. Not for the execution,but for how long it took him to do it. Also for stripping Zod of his personal conscious choices to take over and blaming it on genetics. Also for the fact that he could have kryptoformed any other planet apparently. Also the "But what happens to us" line. Also various other things but HERE I'm talking about killing the bad guy to save the innocent.
The more y'all talk about this issue, the more I wish Donner had come up a better way to display what happen to the Kyptonians because like many others, I thought he killed them. But in Donner's cut, we saw what really happen to them. maybe Donner should have directed that scene differently.
Well, it’s only in a cut scene. Donner opted not to include that Artic Patrol scene, and I think that was probably wise because the idea that local authorities knew how to access the Fortress is a little silly. But in the actual Donner Cut we also don’t see Luthor leave the Fortress before Superman blows it up with his heat vision, and I don’t think we’re meant to assume Luthor died in that explosion.
@@prodigioussaps this is one of the reasons why it's not a good idea to shoot two movies back to back at the same time.
The Fortress was supposed to be destroyed regardless. The Donner Cut used the time reversal to put them back in the Phantom Zone
I saw this in the theater in 1981 (age 7). I didn’t think Superman killed them either.
I always thought it was the fortresses version of the phantom zone.
The scene of Lex Luthor and three villains from Krypton should have been restored and put back in the Richard Donner Cut. I say that because audiences who have seen the Richard Donner Cut won't think Superman killed Lex Luthor when he disintegrated the Fortress of Solitude with heat vision.
I agree. Donner Cut editor Michael Thau has said in interviews that Donner thought the scene wasn't necessary.
What a rotten duty to pick up- arctic police patrol.
I actually thought they were dead because those falls would have BROKEN them at best, and KILLED them at worst! They were human now, with fragile bones! Also, by being alive, it would just be a matter of time before they would regain their powers! We do not even know if that was a permanent or a temporary loss of powers! I for one am GLAD the theatrical and even the director's cut did not keep this in!
Yeah, even without those considerations, the whole idea of the Arctic Patrol having access to the Fortress is a bit too silly.
Yo, how are y'all doing? Will you talk about the Reevesverse Penguin? The season finale was great!
Anyway, loving all the Superman content you guys put out!
Hey man! Thanks - Yep, definitely going to talk about Penguin. Cheers 👊
The arctic police took them a way to jail so in superman III they escape and get there powers back if Donner did part III that’s why the arctic police seen happened
I think this would be the difference between US and International releases, when I first saw the movie here, those scenes were included and when i bought the DVD and saw the movie, i felt like something was missing and didn't know exactly what... then i saw these scenes on RUclips and didn't understand why they were not included in the movie itself!
I also remember being told by friends in the US that there was a TV broadcast of the movie and that did have lots of scenes that were not seen in the Cinema!
Also, anyone who reads comics knows, if there's no body, then nobody is dead!
@@sefy76 during the 80’s and early 90’s The Goonies had the cut octopus scene on tv broadcasts.
@@Kara_Kay_Eschel We had that scene here with the Octopus (Israel), wasn't it in the Cinema in the US? i thought it was part of the movie.
@@sefy76 it was cut from the theater and video releases. Some TV broadcasts of the early 90’s had it.
There was never a time when I thought he killed them. I just figured it was a big snowdrift he threw them into. But I've had plenty of arguments with people that were convinced he killed them. And when you show them the script or deleted scene, "It doesn't count cause it wasn't the official theatrical version" 🤦
The thing I say is, even if we all agree that cut scene isn't canon, there still isn't a death scene because they didn't film one.
I rotflmao over the Red Krypton sun removing Kryptonian power. what it does is make them mortal, needing to breathe, eat, and drink, and have hair and nails needing to be cut. etc. What they should have done if Clark wanted to marry Lois is use a clear Kryptonite crystal belt buckle to relax and control his powers so he could be an earthling.
That wasn't the problem. Clark could not be with Lois because his duty to the world meant that he could not be distracted by a relationship. DC was not ready for Superman to be married and a father in 1977, as opposed to 1996 and 2015.
Dead or not, Superman got only one: Zod. Lois got Ursa and Non fell himself! 😉
Shoots? It was totally a death pit!!!😮
Thank you! I saw this when I was a kid and didn't see where they landed, so I never assumed they just died. I figured, they're human now and so they just have nowhere to go and nobody but each other. It's the Fortress of Solitude. Who are we to say?
Soooo....
Superman broke all the bones in Zod's, now human, hand - threw him at speed into a solid hard wall upon which he fell down a large distance into a deep, bottomless beyond vision, crevice......and somehow he survived? - no he's dead, very dead, his body crushed and broken.
The Arctic Patrol was a deleted scene, and should remain deleted.
I agree.
OK here's something that always played on my mind - when Lois punches Ursa - I could have sworn in the cinema back in the day she said "You're a real pain in the A$$" - but I think that every time I've seen it at home (DVD/Blu-ray/Streamed etc) she says "neck" - has it always been neck? if so - I've just remembered it wrong! - if anyone knows I'd be grateful - thanks
I saw it in the theater when it was brand new and I only remember her ever saying "pain in the neck."
Several other people have said that, and I think it's an easy thing to mishear or misremember. It is scripted as "pain in the neck". If an alternate line reading exists, I've never seen it. Although I wish it did. Cheers 👊
@@prodigioussaps Great - thanks
Donner didn't have swearing in the scenes that he filmed, but Lester did. The confrontation in the Fortress was Donner, hence the neck is used.
The arctic police thing is dumb as hell but it completely nails what silver age Superman was like. Also, not that realism matters here but Antarctica is a demilitarized zone so those ice cops wouldn't be allowed to have guns, lol.
I always thought they died from a long fall.
Clark going to beat up diner guy with powers was weak. Beneath him
I always thought he sent them back to the Phantom Zone.
That would have made sense!
I figured they were frozen into suspended animation.
Never thought of that, but I dig it! I think it would have been really satisfying if he had sent them back into the Phantom Zone afterwards... i'm kind of surprised they didn't script it that way.
Woah! As a kid I thought it was a bottomless pit. Reconsidering it now, thats absurd. 😅
They did make it look that way though.
They definitely did! No question. But it’s interesting to see how many people in the comments thought otherwise as Brendan said.
I'm sorry, but deleted scenes are not canon. The three Kryptonians are dead in canon. You also skip the fact that Superman also crushes Zod's genitalia. Crushed hand, genitalia, throws him to his death. Deleted scenes are cool, but that's what's shown on camera.
So nut-crushing is fatal?
@@prodigioussaps LoL! When it's combined with a crushed hand and then being thrown against a wall and then falling at least 30 feet, yes.
Honestly, I never understood why everyone was outraged with Cavill's neck snap because I always thought Reeve did the aforementioned horrors to Zod.
@@prodigioussaps Definitely. For the nuts.
@ShinAdamSmasher That is a somewhat fair comparison. But, I will say, while that cut scene definitely IS NOT canon (the Arctic Patrol thing alone is reason enough to cut that baby), I don't consider their deaths to be canon because they literally did not shoot death scenes for them. We don't see them die, because their deaths were never scripted. It's one of these things that can't really be proven one way or the other.
@miller-joel For the nuts! 🫡
He’s clearly not killed on impact as evidenced by his yelling as he _slides_ down the sloped wall. As for Superman “crippling” his hand, the sound does not necessarily reflect what happened since you couldn’t realistically hear all that nor would it sound exactly like that. Plus, these films detach themselves from reality given by how sloppily they handle details like him changing costumes or other movie physics. Plus the jerk in the bar he gets revenge on would be far worse off from the blunt force trauma he sustained.
Tl;dr, no, I never thought he killed them.🧐
I thought the fell forever, neither dead nor living a life…
I remember seeing this scene on tv. He didn't kill them
I really believe that General Zod was a blatant copy of the Black Adam character from Fawcett comics.
Interesting, I’ll have to look into that. Cheers
I always thought he killed them and I loved it as a kid. They were evil psychotic murderers.
In reality they would have just fallen in to the ocean. The fortress is basically a floating ice palace on the Antarctic or what ever ocean right?.
I thought there was a Sarlacc down there.
After the criminals are taken away Superman destroys the Fortress of Solitude.
@Andy-Bodhi The destruction of the Fortress wasn't in the theatrical release, so it's not considered canon to the fourth movie... I mean, to whatever extent that either III or IV gave a crap about canon, which isn't much, really!
@@Andy-Bodhi This was a deleted scene that was added back to the first time television broadcast of the movie.
I never thought he killed them but I did always wonder and the arctic police is hilarious….
That's odd. For me, even as a 8 year old kid, I thought they died.
And I've seen a lot of the cut scenes, but I missed that one. Interesting!!
Yeah, apparently that cut scene was never shown in its entirety until they released the Donner Cut, where they included it as an extra. Part of the scene had previously been included in extended cuts (and the international cut, I think) but didn't clearly show the villains were there. Cheers 👊
Have you done a video on why Ursa grabbed her hand as if it hurt when bit by the snake. I always found that odd.
Also, breathing and talking is space with no oxygen. Any video on that. Do Kryptonians require oxygen?
We didn't dig into either those, but we should. I'm planning on a follow-up video, sort of an FAQ for Superman II. Several people have asked about the snake bite, and I wanted to mention the talking in space thing but forgot to mention it in the full episode.
As for whether Kryptonians can breathe in space, no, but they can go for great lengths of time without breathing. They changed that in the comics in the late 80s, where Superman requires an oxygen mask if he's in space for an extended length of time. Back when these movies were made, Superman in the comics didn't need an oxygen mask ever, if I recall correctly. Cheers 👊
Pure guess but maybe it was an instinctual reaction because Ursa expected it to hurt, then realised it didn’t.
@jduk1818 That's what I'm thinking as well
They talk through telepathy and only move their lips out of habit
I always thought hey died.
In the theatrical cut, it seemed that Superman did kill them cause everyone in the theater thought the same thing! Richard Donner's cut and the ABC television version show them being taken away by the police....which everyone knows where Superman lives....Ironic! I am sure when Superman "fled", he made preparations prior to Zod coming to the fortress....well obviously right? LOL
As a 10 year old boy watching this for the first time, it never crossed my mind that he killed them, just that they fell down a hole. Didn't think anymore of it... mind you killing is not real when your 10 years old, like soldiers fighting or cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians, death doesn't seem to mean anything.... other than your out of the game.
I'm pretty sure the typical 10-year-old knows what death means. It's just that the typical 10-year-old never has to face death in the real world........
This scene always bothered me for one big reason you didn’t mention.
The Smallville Smasher?
Why would Luthor know Clark was from Smallville?
Yeah I’m surprised that line survived into the shooting script.
@ there were a lot of strange things in the script and scenes they shot. A lot of it didn’t work, which is why Donner left it out, but I think Lester gets too much flack for making the films sillier when we can see that it was always the Newman’s from Day 1.
As a kid I never really thought about them dying in the fortress, that came later as a teen, but like you said, we just see them disappear. I started writing a story as a teen where they come back and are powered again.
Cool. Yeah I think it would have been wise to keep them around, and it looks like that was Donner and Mank's intention.