Hot take: I've had reasonable success with the Dakkajet and the Blastajet in casual games. Both quite shooty for their points on reasonably tough platforms. Aircraft rules still suck and there's more efficient units in the codex, but I don't think they're unusable
They sold enough buggies. They want ork players to buy other kits. Not that baffling. There's GW, the games company. Then there's GW, corporation, with shareholders.
The dogmata being the only sisters support character without a 4++ is just such a hilarious random weakness for a model thats already worse than literally every other support character.
Combine cultists and spawn... Cultists sticky an objective and the spawn reduce the enemy OC so even if the cultists die, OC 1 units can't take the objective away.
I’m seeing a trend: x points for a squad. Another x points for an optional leader that doubles the points but doesn’t double its damage or abilities. 🤔
I’ve said it before and I stand by it, Reivers and the Reiver Lieutenant should simply have access to the every piece of gear at the same time. So a regular Reiver would be equipped with a Bolt Carbine, Special issue bolt pistol, combat knife, Grav Shute, and grapnel launcher. This makes them an elite option that bridges the gap between incursors/eliminators and assault space marines with jump packs, allowing them to embrace their flavour as elite shock troops amongst an army of elite shock troops. Having access to the carbine in addition to the knife really isn’t a big deal as csm already has Chosen. Chosen can’t deep strike or ignore terrain but they get much better melee weapons and power weapons. I think it make for a great parallel and would also make for a great kill team box. Reivers and lieutenant vs a chaos champion and his chosen entourage.
Give scouts a grapple and a haywire bomb and a signall jammer as options and get rid of reievrs incursers and infiltrators. Mave the models all count as scouts but a simplified datasheet
@ nahhhhhhhh that’s lame. Scouts are grunts fresh out of basic, half baked space marines. They shouldn’t be going on high profile missions and trying to assassinate high profile officers with Elite honour guards.
The firebrand is good for cultist detachment because he helps with both dark pact and desperate pacts. Enforcer is also good for cultist detachment because you can fire overwatch 4 times with 4 different squads while the cultists eat up the charge all while having lethal hits or sustained hits on every overwatch shot if you make your dark pacts, if you sac the ogryn its 20 shots per squad as long as the target is within 12". I think you are overlooking the cultist detachment and how these guys can be used effectively.
I think a whole category worth mentioning is units damaged by the lack of wargear points, the first offender that comes to my mind is Wraithknight for eldar - the sword+shield is just a worse Avatar of Khaine that costs 150 more points because the double cannon version (which has a fundamentally different role) was broken.
Even though the commissar isn’t a good model at 30 points he’s a good action monkey actually. I just stick him in reserves and bring him in when needed
I would suggest the Death Company Captains at least for Honorable mention because they are never getting taken over a Chaplain, way overcosted, mediocre buffs, has the negative of the Black Rage, and at best a Head butt on death.
I've never seen ANY of the units in the main list on the tabletop, like ever. Excluding the honorable mentions, of course - the Stompa appears quite often despite being bad
The thing about Sloppity bilepiper and Noxious blightbringer is they are basically only useful when you combine them. Most LD effects are extremely weak on their own. It's only when you mix them that they become insane. Taking a Blight bringer with aura range upgrade, Soul-rot and a sloppity bilepiper means your enemy will basically never take an objective after turn 2 or 3 at the most. They will be unable to score because they will be taking tests at -3 to effective leadership making even space marines fail, and often. Most people just don't want to lean that hard into the mechanic though, but its viable when you're trying to focus on scoring instead of pure killing. There's no excuse for the surgeon though, maybe if he added a FNP mechanic instead of unit recovery.
Those Mechi cases look pretty interesting, but I think I see one other issue with them - if you've got any paint, etc around the bases rims, then having a clamp on the base could wear it off REAL quick.
It’s a soft rubber material used for the actual point of contact on the base, it’s actually not quite a “clamp” in that sense. It’s a mechanical mechanism, but a very soft material around the base itself.
Pre-codex AS had access to both missionaries and priests. Missionaries got auto pistol and chainsword and sustained hits 1 in melee, priests could take a Zealot's Vindicator and squad got +1 to wound in melee. When the AS codex came out they kept the priest, Imperial agents got the Missionary (guard always had the missionary). The priest was always exceptionally good at leading arco-flagellants (still quite good) when they had twin linked and +1 to wound. Most hits would only fail to wound on snake eyes.
Regular dreadnoughts are iconic. I’m still happy I have one from the Starter set that came with Orks, even though I don’t intend to ever play Space Marines.
First on an Auspex video? FOR THE GUARD Also, the Dogmata makes a decent proxy for a Primaris Psyker =D It does suck that the Valkyrie, my favorite model in the 40k range, is intentionally made awful, though.
The corvus blackstar from the agents of the imperium is a cheaper and better valk if you're desperate to have some flyers in your army. It can't transport guard infantry, but since everything deepstrikes now that doesn't really matter.
Hmm... YT deleted this when I last tried to post it. If you're looking for a valkyrie which is more usable (though still not exactly powerful), look up the corvus blackstar from the inquisitorial agents codex. Cheaper, better loadout, can't carry guard troops however which is the one downside but the valkyrie isn't great for that to begin with.
@@jimmydesouza4375 Yeah, the Blackstar is my second-favorite vehicle model, but not being able to transport my infantry makes it a hard pass. I might have to give that some more thought, though. I'm also thinking about making an Agents army because my whole fluff is Rogue Trader Militant.
@@adamn8156 I've found enough folks that let me fire the Hellstrike missiles twice, because the Blackstar can while also being tankier and shootier for less points, and every other Guard flyer + Taurox primes getting two shots with missiles. That definitely isn't happening in competitive settings, but often enough playing with friends or casually that it's worth packing up.
Went through a bunch of effort to kitbash a dogmata out of the extra canoness, and repentia superior from buying 2 of the 9th edition combat patrols, plus a couple stormcast bits. Havent fielded her once ...
@recurvestickerdragon thank ya! She used the repentia superior as the main base model so she's got a real dynamic pose. Looks like she's winding up for a big overhead strike with her mace with one hand while holding out a holy icon with the other
The World Eaters Helbrute is hilarious because it gets to just KEEP ATTACKING every single time it gets attacked, although thanks to an FAQ he can no longer shoot in melee because BGNT can't work out-of-phase. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the durability to take more than a few hits, nor the attacks to actually do more than bully infantry, so he ultimately doesn't really do that much. At best he's a midfield bully to punch down onto smaller units and HOPE nothing big like a Lascannon goes after him.
I do enjoy my tsons HB even tho its super mids. I find the main issue with the helbrute is the cost, as for 10 pts more a war dog karnivore is vastly superior damage wise. If helbrute were 100-110 pts I could see you using multiples. Theyd move 8" if in Magnus time flux aura which is pretty decent if you bide your time and wait for your opponent to come into the mid board
Buggies are actually slept on if you run kult of speed. Some of the shooting buff stratagens are pretty good. Just not the squigbuggy. The dragsta is pretty good honestly
Cultist firebrand was a waste of a Unit and losing the Exalted Champion for him was a waste. EC should have been kept with some minor rules tweaking and more units for him to join.
Idea to make Thousand Sons Hellbrutes useable: If a psychic power or cabal ritual is within range of a friendly hellbrute, then the power/ritual can be refocused from the hellbrute at the original range. A hazardous roll if you want to add +1 to something like strength, attacks or damage.
I feel like if they Changed the wording to discount a cabal cast by 1 instead of refunding 1 would be enough to run them. Being able to have a cheeky re roll save with that leftover cabal point would be nice
@@grahamwilliamson5306 or maybe say that if a cabal ritual is performed within 6” of the hellbrute, there is a 4+ chance/round that it’s free. Then 5+, then 6+. Per round.
@@smatting2627 that ruling would be far to powerful. Having the chance to cast rituals for free like Ahriman multiple times a game is simply too much. It would be nice if maybe there was a scaling system for the refund mechanic. Roll a d6 on a 1-3 refund 1 point, 4-5 refund d3 and on a 6 refund a flat 3
My son, who plays Sallies occasionally, has complained that Vulcan He'Stan is redundant. The squads he wants to lead already has the buffs he hands out.
Spore Mines really should have Infiltrate. It makes no sense that the minefields cannot be deployed ahead of the front line. And Mucolids should go back to being - as in the lore - dedicated anti-air (or rather, anti-fly) mines. It would also be neat if they did a touch more than 1MW on one enemy unit. A neat option would be to give them Deadly Demise 1, and trigger it on a roll of 2+. Still not amazing, but the extra blast radius, and the potential for hitting multiple units, would give them a much needed bit of Oomph. Another idea would be to do something like D6 Hits plus Blast, with okay-ish strength and AP.
@@sebastianrubin7476 the only issue with buffing the spore mine's damage is that all it does is buff biovores... you'd still never want to take spore mines on their own cause for pretty much the same cost you can spawn them for free wherever you need them. Infiltrate is something they should have but outside of making their points costs laughably low its pretty hard to buff them to the point where you wanna take them without taking a biovore being the infinitly better option
How dare you put my boy the Stompa on there?? Only bad thing is the points cost. If it was 600 it might be more usable but it's so fun to use and is actually super powerful.
The sad part is that the Reiver Lieutenant is one of only three Phobos characters that can even be bought as a separate model, along with the Phobos Captain and Phobos Librarian - the Lieutenant with Combi Weapon and Lieutenant in Phobos Armor are both part of *expensive* combo sets. At least the Lieutenant in Phobos Armor comes in a box with other vanguard units and there's another "can't get it anywhere else" unit in that box that makes it worth it. I sincerely want some customizable Phobos character models - all *six* of the existing Phobos characters (Captain, Librarian, all three Lieutenants, and Kayvaan Shrike) are mono-pose with no options. Contrast that with the *super* customizable Infiltrators/Incursors (especially with the Kill Team sprue) and Reivers... or even the multipart Eliminators, who at least have three or four weapons to choose from.
issue with traitor enforcer is traitor guardsmen aren't great because of bad ability. I run them anyway cause I love the idea of grizzled soldiers that are tired of the imperium lies. Cultists are just losers
the Cultist Firebrand has somewhat of a purpose in Deceptors, cheap character to proc detonators, or you can give it soul link to copy something more useful, like terminator sorcerer's +1 AP
The fire brand could be interesting if he was a bit cheaper say 30 and he had a lieutenant style rule where you could bring him with the dark commune. Then you could have a large squad of cultists that would have some cool flamer attacks and all the buffs of the DC. Also if he could join traitor guardsman (and was cheaper) he also might be more interesting. Also the Traitor commissar is so much more expensive then he needs to be, but if he was cheaper and then he could lead regular cultists, I think he would be better, adding a melee punch to them.
Ork buggies man, I'd love to run a Speed Freeks list but it's just so many problems, most mentioned in the video, but also the price; £37 retail for 80 points is wild. You can run three trikes and three of each buggy and it's not even 1500 points, then try moving that around the board! They need a big jump in both points cost and their datasheet - tougher, more wounds, more damage, absolutely won't happen this edition.
They're being slept on. They do work in kult of speed. I run a shitload and shoot shit off the board all the time. Dragsta is the best one, scrapjet is the second. Boosta and boomdakka are tied and that squigbuggy is just brutal. I'll admit that
I wish the CSM spawn cost came down a bit and that they could be fielded in units of 2, 4 or 6... Since they re so fofferent from all the other spawn in terms of rules anyhow.
Those silly little rust buckets from crons can make a unit of wraiths suddenly qualify for cull the horde, which can be very annoying for your opponent
I plan on getting a reiver lieutenant for my Hounds of Morkai. From what I gathered, he can boost their attack range, and since the Hounds don't have deep strike, he's not really holding them back other than not having anti-psyker weapons. Would it be worth getting?
Sadly by now best thing that can happen for proper Dread is to get on "Legendary Proxies" list to field it as Ballsackus Dread :/ Basically same loadout, but you'd get smaller model size and better looking model.
The issue with ork buggies is entirely down to their rules. I'd rather they be buffed to be worth their current points than points reduced to justify their current state.
Yeah the core issue is not only do they need to do something for their points, they also need to do something for the space they take up on the table, they have a pretty big footprint for a unit that doesn't actually do anything.
@captainweekend5276 In kult of speed, they can actually shoot the shit out of alot of stuff. I use them and have decent success. Not sure why people think they're horrible. Are they great? No, but they're not some of the worst in the game
Gotta ask im about to start a Phobos strike team Kill team and seeing the Reiver lieutenant on this list makes me worry about having the Reiver Sergent as the one to lead my kill team would you guys say this list only applies to general armies or to kill team as well?
normal spore mines are units of 3 to 6 not units of 4 and mucolid spores are 1 to 2 and they all have the potential to do something. absolutely the worst unit. also only 4" movement so even if you do deep strike they're unlikely to get in rage unless they get the charge off
I really like Chaos Spawn and have a fair amount, but I just hate that they can only be taken in units of 2. I wish I could take a big unit of 6 or 10 or so, then they might be a little scary. A unit of 2 just feels like they can't do anything and are a complete waste of points, but at least a bigger group might threaten enemy units.
I've seen cryptothralls in necron list for Awakened Dynasty, he used them to boost stats of canoptek wraiths with technomancer, maybe not best points investment, but this was scary thing to play against.
no mention of the magus I assume you just forgot that gsc exists cause she is a 50 pt character that does less than the dogmata, she can try for a -1 to hit that can kill her, and un battleshock in an army where you can res models in the command phase to get out of rolling battleshock
The Ork Buggies are fun to use, but don't do the damage they need to. Short of radical changes to their datasheets, which GW probably aren't doing this edition, a +1 to hit at 12" range for Kult Of Speed would help a lot, making their massed firepower a lot more likely to do something. Obviously it wouldn't help the Shokkjump Dragster much, but that thing actually fills a quite useful role teleporting about and trying to snipe out Characters, which a couple of them can do quite well. Kult of Speed in general needs a bit of a buff, Advance/ Fall Back and shoot is nice, but given that it's limited to the KoS units and even then is weaker than something like Bringers of Flame or Firestorm there's clearly something wrong there. I'd change it to army-wide Assault Weapons, with the Fall Back+ shoot and +1 to hit at 12" for KoS models in addition. The Dogmata is a truly sad unit at the moment. This is a supposed melee character with WS 3+, which immediately puts her on the back foot vs the Palatine or Canoness who both have better melee and far, far more useful rules for 5 points more. She has a weak combo with Stern's battleshock test ability and you could use the Divine Aspect enhancement from Army of Faith to force a test and gain a Miracle Dice if it goes off, but that's about it. I think she needs more threat in melee and/or a strong squad-wide melee buff, or to grant Miracle Dice for kills in some way.
Just use the strats. Blitza fire and dakka storm. I'm stunned nobody mentions these. Especially blitza fire. You have any idea what lethal hits on 6s or 5+6s at half range does for orks firepower. It's basically doubles the effectiveness. With warbikers, buggies or deffkoptas with the twin linked rockets.......trust me, it does damage. I've had a squad of 6 warbikers take out almost 2 custodes before all my other stuff shoots.
@@CRose9205 I do. The last time I played KoS against Necrons I shot some eight buggies at Illuminor Szeras and didn't do enough damage to get past his Reanimation, and that was with using both strats on different buggies. I love KoS, but it really struggles with tough stuff at the moment.
When I saw the chapter titles I was like, "helbrutes! Helbrutes are great, my CSM one is always a great anchor for a fire base covering my chosen and legionnaries as they swarm the centre...oh the tsons one, yeah hes a bag o crap"
sounds like support Characters are all over costed to be fair. a full 50-60 points for +1 OC and -1 LD for opponents, or kill a 55pt model that drops your units ability. LEADER units - 50pt+ SUPPORT LEADER units - 20-40pts (Must be attached to a unit)
Noxious Blightbringer really needs a revamped/new ability instead of a points drop. It's at 45, and I suppose it could go to 40 or 35, but that seems unlikely.
i take a helbrute in my tsons because i wanted lascannons without having to take a predator (though now predators don't automatically suck, it's less of a consideration)
Thousand Sons Helbrute is potentially 3+ cabal points, so it really can be considered for competetive list. Also some melee threat in addition to Magnus and daemon-prince.
The refund doesn't stack as it's a named aura ability. Hence why helbrute still suck 😂. Being able to spend 2 cabals and get refunded 3 would be insanely broken
@@grahamwilliamson5306 I wasn't talking about 'stacking' aura effect, just using Lord of the Forbidden Lore enhancement (or just two different cabal rituals per turn) within 9" refund aura. For example, we have 16 cabal points pool. In our turn, we will use temporal surge + echoes of the warp, to use devastating sorcery stratagem for Magnus/SoT/IM with arcane vortex. So it'll be 16-5+1-6+1=7. As if we had 2 extra cabal points. So we can use these +2 for doombolt, or second temporal surge through LoFL psyker (7-5+1=3). And then, during enemy's turn, we can use these 3 cabal points for activating double weaver of fates cabal ritual (3-2+1-2+1=1), which gives us 4 more actually usable (technically 5) cabal points for only 130 points. And it's pretty durable, through 2+ save, also can randomly survive even high AP attacks (Gladiator Lancer, multi-melta, votann's hekaton land fortress, etc)
@@grahamwilliamson5306 I wasn't talking about 'stacking' aura effect, just using Lord of the Forbidden Lore enhancement (or just two different cabal rituals) within 9" refund aura. For example, we have 16 cabal points pool. In our turn, we will use temporal surge + echoes of the warp, to use devastating sorcery stratagem for Magnus/Set/IM with arcane vortex. So it'll be 16-5+1-6+1=7. As if we had 2 extra cabal points. So we can use these +2 for doombolt, or second temporal surge through LoFL psyker (7-5+1=3). And then, during enemy's turn, we can use these 3 cabal points for activating double weaver of fates cabal ritual (3-2+1-2+1=1), which gives us 4 more actually usable cabal points for only 130 points. And it's pretty durable, through 2+ save, also can randomly survive even high AP attacks (Gladiator Lancer, multi-melta, votann's hekaton land fortress, etc)
I hate the shadowseer... what in the hell is it supposed to do? If you're taking troupes (outside of a big unit + Ynnari characters) you're taking transports but the buff requires you to be disembarked in the command phase. Bah humbug
TS Helbrute is here because theyre having running away and sufferinf from PTSD from that one Ultramarine Primaris Dreadnought that GYATtaling gunned one of them in the face and threw a Pillar at a Heldrake
havent watched the video, lemme guess: reivers are still on this list
Normally the first to agree… for 75 points in vanguard they are a good uppy downy points unit now though
Almost, its the Reiver Lieutenant this time 🤣
Yeah, they escaped a mention in this one with that points change. Not the lieutenant though!
Surprisingly their not, instead it’s the lieutenant in reiver armor
They’re actually decent in Blood Angels too. Deepstrike plus battle shock mechanic with Dante is brutal
It’s bad enough that Ork Aircraft are banished to the shadow realm but their handling on the buggies really was just baffling stuff.
Especially since I think they mostly sort of got it right in 9th
cries in speed waaaagh
Paying for the sins of 9th. Freebooterz Speedwaagh was nuts
Hot take: I've had reasonable success with the Dakkajet and the Blastajet in casual games. Both quite shooty for their points on reasonably tough platforms. Aircraft rules still suck and there's more efficient units in the codex, but I don't think they're unusable
They sold enough buggies. They want ork players to buy other kits.
Not that baffling.
There's GW, the games company.
Then there's GW, corporation, with shareholders.
Not sure to be proud or ashamed of having over 500 points of painted spore mines.
Proud
Proud
You painted them, so proud it is.
Painted? Proud, no questions asked.
I both commend you and feel for you.
Dogmatas were solid in 9e back when we had Hymns of Battle. She was basically a Chaplain for us.
▶5:35 = " She Had *_🖐Man Hands.🖐_* " ( "That's Not A *_Twist-top Beverage"_* ••• " Thank You for _Rip[ping My _*_🦞Lobster🦞 in Halƒ "_* )
The dogmata being the only sisters support character without a 4++ is just such a hilarious random weakness for a model thats already worse than literally every other support character.
Combine cultists and spawn... Cultists sticky an objective and the spawn reduce the enemy OC so even if the cultists die, OC 1 units can't take the objective away.
If they combine cultists and spawn wouldn’t that just be accursed cultists?
@@Swampert919 As in.... use them together..... xd
@@amarumurga846 ohhhh... i did wonder why making them one unit would be the answer lol XD
I’m seeing a trend: x points for a squad. Another x points for an optional leader that doubles the points but doesn’t double its damage or abilities. 🤔
Maybe y points to upgrade one of the model into unit NCO/champion
I’ve said it before and I stand by it, Reivers and the Reiver Lieutenant should simply have access to the every piece of gear at the same time.
So a regular Reiver would be equipped with a Bolt Carbine, Special issue bolt pistol, combat knife, Grav Shute, and grapnel launcher. This makes them an elite option that bridges the gap between incursors/eliminators and assault space marines with jump packs, allowing them to embrace their flavour as elite shock troops amongst an army of elite shock troops.
Having access to the carbine in addition to the knife really isn’t a big deal as csm already has Chosen. Chosen can’t deep strike or ignore terrain but they get much better melee weapons and power weapons. I think it make for a great parallel and would also make for a great kill team box. Reivers and lieutenant vs a chaos champion and his chosen entourage.
Give scouts a grapple and a haywire bomb and a signall jammer as options and get rid of reievrs incursers and infiltrators. Mave the models all count as scouts but a simplified datasheet
@ nahhhhhhhh that’s lame. Scouts are grunts fresh out of basic, half baked space marines. They shouldn’t be going on high profile missions and trying to assassinate high profile officers with Elite honour guards.
The reiver lieutenant needs the grav chute so he can deepstrike with the reiver squad, and I agree they could use a bolt carbine.
@ oh for sure the fact he didn't get one is so painfully stupid
Let Venerable dreadnoughts ride in drop pods again
Let drop pods land directly through enemy vehicles! I will not take drop pods until I can crash them into enemy units 😤
The firebrand is good for cultist detachment because he helps with both dark pact and desperate pacts. Enforcer is also good for cultist detachment because you can fire overwatch 4 times with 4 different squads while the cultists eat up the charge all while having lethal hits or sustained hits on every overwatch shot if you make your dark pacts, if you sac the ogryn its 20 shots per squad as long as the target is within 12". I think you are overlooking the cultist detachment and how these guys can be used effectively.
3x he'll brutes around them for sus and lethal combo bomb
I think a whole category worth mentioning is units damaged by the lack of wargear points, the first offender that comes to my mind is Wraithknight for eldar - the sword+shield is just a worse Avatar of Khaine that costs 150 more points because the double cannon version (which has a fundamentally different role) was broken.
Even though the commissar isn’t a good model at 30 points he’s a good action monkey actually. I just stick him in reserves and bring him in when needed
T'au Tactical Drone Squad should be on this list
I would suggest the Death Company Captains at least for Honorable mention because they are never getting taken over a Chaplain, way overcosted, mediocre buffs, has the negative of the Black Rage, and at best a Head butt on death.
For DA, captain Lazarus probably deserves at least an honourable mention.
I've never seen ANY of the units in the main list on the tabletop, like ever. Excluding the honorable mentions, of course - the Stompa appears quite often despite being bad
The thing about Sloppity bilepiper and Noxious blightbringer is they are basically only useful when you combine them. Most LD effects are extremely weak on their own. It's only when you mix them that they become insane. Taking a Blight bringer with aura range upgrade, Soul-rot and a sloppity bilepiper means your enemy will basically never take an objective after turn 2 or 3 at the most. They will be unable to score because they will be taking tests at -3 to effective leadership making even space marines fail, and often.
Most people just don't want to lean that hard into the mechanic though, but its viable when you're trying to focus on scoring instead of pure killing.
There's no excuse for the surgeon though, maybe if he added a FNP mechanic instead of unit recovery.
Those Mechi cases look pretty interesting, but I think I see one other issue with them - if you've got any paint, etc around the bases rims, then having a clamp on the base could wear it off REAL quick.
It’s a soft rubber material used for the actual point of contact on the base, it’s actually not quite a “clamp” in that sense. It’s a mechanical mechanism, but a very soft material around the base itself.
Pre-codex AS had access to both missionaries and priests.
Missionaries got auto pistol and chainsword and sustained hits 1 in melee, priests could take a Zealot's Vindicator and squad got +1 to wound in melee.
When the AS codex came out they kept the priest, Imperial agents got the Missionary (guard always had the missionary). The priest was always exceptionally good at leading arco-flagellants (still quite good) when they had twin linked and +1 to wound. Most hits would only fail to wound on snake eyes.
Im a casual player and im excited to have a sporocyst soon for mucolid spores
crazy looking model, have fun
Regular dreadnoughts are iconic. I’m still happy I have one from the Starter set that came with Orks, even though I don’t intend to ever play Space Marines.
First on an Auspex video? FOR THE GUARD
Also, the Dogmata makes a decent proxy for a Primaris Psyker =D
It does suck that the Valkyrie, my favorite model in the 40k range, is intentionally made awful, though.
The corvus blackstar from the agents of the imperium is a cheaper and better valk if you're desperate to have some flyers in your army. It can't transport guard infantry, but since everything deepstrikes now that doesn't really matter.
The poor Valkyrie...GW despises flyers. A shame that the massively cool and massively expensive model I bought remains useless.
Hmm... YT deleted this when I last tried to post it. If you're looking for a valkyrie which is more usable (though still not exactly powerful), look up the corvus blackstar from the inquisitorial agents codex. Cheaper, better loadout, can't carry guard troops however which is the one downside but the valkyrie isn't great for that to begin with.
@@jimmydesouza4375 Yeah, the Blackstar is my second-favorite vehicle model, but not being able to transport my infantry makes it a hard pass. I might have to give that some more thought, though. I'm also thinking about making an Agents army because my whole fluff is Rogue Trader Militant.
@@adamn8156 I've found enough folks that let me fire the Hellstrike missiles twice, because the Blackstar can while also being tankier and shootier for less points, and every other Guard flyer + Taurox primes getting two shots with missiles. That definitely isn't happening in competitive settings, but often enough playing with friends or casually that it's worth packing up.
Went through a bunch of effort to kitbash a dogmata out of the extra canoness, and repentia superior from buying 2 of the 9th edition combat patrols, plus a couple stormcast bits. Havent fielded her once ...
sounds like a beautiful bashed mini though, props to ya for that
@recurvestickerdragon thank ya! She used the repentia superior as the main base model so she's got a real dynamic pose. Looks like she's winding up for a big overhead strike with her mace with one hand while holding out a holy icon with the other
The World Eaters Helbrute is hilarious because it gets to just KEEP ATTACKING every single time it gets attacked, although thanks to an FAQ he can no longer shoot in melee because BGNT can't work out-of-phase. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have the durability to take more than a few hits, nor the attacks to actually do more than bully infantry, so he ultimately doesn't really do that much. At best he's a midfield bully to punch down onto smaller units and HOPE nothing big like a Lascannon goes after him.
I do enjoy my tsons HB even tho its super mids. I find the main issue with the helbrute is the cost, as for 10 pts more a war dog karnivore is vastly superior damage wise. If helbrute were 100-110 pts I could see you using multiples. Theyd move 8" if in Magnus time flux aura which is pretty decent if you bide your time and wait for your opponent to come into the mid board
Buggies are actually slept on if you run kult of speed. Some of the shooting buff stratagens are pretty good. Just not the squigbuggy. The dragsta is pretty good honestly
You can also add all the big chaos knights basically, apart from the rampager.
Id say lancer is better than rampager
Ah great, I just started collecting Ork speed freeks last month.
Could you talk about fliers and why they are bad? I was hoping to use them in my first army I hope to make.
Cultist firebrand was a waste of a Unit and losing the Exalted Champion for him was a waste.
EC should have been kept with some minor rules tweaking and more units for him to join.
I wish they kept the box with the firebrand and all the gun cultists
Idea to make Thousand Sons Hellbrutes useable:
If a psychic power or cabal ritual is within range of a friendly hellbrute, then the power/ritual can be refocused from the hellbrute at the original range. A hazardous roll if you want to add +1 to something like strength, attacks or damage.
I feel like if they Changed the wording to discount a cabal cast by 1 instead of refunding 1 would be enough to run them. Being able to have a cheeky re roll save with that leftover cabal point would be nice
@@grahamwilliamson5306 or maybe say that if a cabal ritual is performed within 6” of the hellbrute, there is a 4+ chance/round that it’s free. Then 5+, then 6+. Per round.
@@smatting2627 that ruling would be far to powerful. Having the chance to cast rituals for free like Ahriman multiple times a game is simply too much. It would be nice if maybe there was a scaling system for the refund mechanic. Roll a d6 on a 1-3 refund 1 point, 4-5 refund d3 and on a 6 refund a flat 3
@ if GW really wanted to push the Hellbrute & the Heldrake, they could combine them into a Robotech-style walker flyer!
My son, who plays Sallies occasionally, has complained that Vulcan He'Stan is redundant. The squads he wants to lead already has the buffs he hands out.
Spore Mines really should have Infiltrate. It makes no sense that the minefields cannot be deployed ahead of the front line. And Mucolids should go back to being - as in the lore - dedicated anti-air (or rather, anti-fly) mines.
It would also be neat if they did a touch more than 1MW on one enemy unit. A neat option would be to give them Deadly Demise 1, and trigger it on a roll of 2+. Still not amazing, but the extra blast radius, and the potential for hitting multiple units, would give them a much needed bit of Oomph. Another idea would be to do something like D6 Hits plus Blast, with okay-ish strength and AP.
@@sebastianrubin7476 the only issue with buffing the spore mine's damage is that all it does is buff biovores... you'd still never want to take spore mines on their own cause for pretty much the same cost you can spawn them for free wherever you need them.
Infiltrate is something they should have but outside of making their points costs laughably low its pretty hard to buff them to the point where you wanna take them without taking a biovore being the infinitly better option
Spore mines are never to be paid for. Just use biovore and harpies to summon them
Its a damn shame that all they've done this edition is cut points instead of making things genuinely useful
Not really a bad unit bc they’re insane but they need to fix the point cost on jump pack intercessors bc I can get vanguard vets for 110
A notable number of Blackstone Fortress models on the list?
How dare you put my boy the Stompa on there?? Only bad thing is the points cost. If it was 600 it might be more usable but it's so fun to use and is actually super powerful.
Does this mean Servitors have finally been removed from all codices? Or did you forget they exist?
The real weakest units are those which are so bad that you even forgot to mention them.
You said that the priest is the worst of Guard, but I bet that that is because you forgot that Sevitors existed.
Cryptothralls went from an auto take to never take, gg GW. It’s a way to internally balance a codex I guess 😅
Surprised the Custodies Bikes aren’t on the list.
Gotta say the firebrand is also EXTREMELY weak for plastic. That flame is barely 1mm or less of plastic. Almost broke it off to many times.
Rule of cool still running Indiana bones in my necrons list
I’m not surprised about the dogmata even with my limited roster i struggle to find a spot for her in my list
Custodes bikes! Totally useless and 70 points per model, oh, and Death Company captains...Never going to see one on a table.
The sad part is that the Reiver Lieutenant is one of only three Phobos characters that can even be bought as a separate model, along with the Phobos Captain and Phobos Librarian - the Lieutenant with Combi Weapon and Lieutenant in Phobos Armor are both part of *expensive* combo sets. At least the Lieutenant in Phobos Armor comes in a box with other vanguard units and there's another "can't get it anywhere else" unit in that box that makes it worth it.
I sincerely want some customizable Phobos character models - all *six* of the existing Phobos characters (Captain, Librarian, all three Lieutenants, and Kayvaan Shrike) are mono-pose with no options. Contrast that with the *super* customizable Infiltrators/Incursors (especially with the Kill Team sprue) and Reivers... or even the multipart Eliminators, who at least have three or four weapons to choose from.
issue with traitor enforcer is traitor guardsmen aren't great because of bad ability. I run them anyway cause I love the idea of grizzled soldiers that are tired of the imperium lies. Cultists are just losers
the Ven Drea cost more than the Ballistus ... WTF !
It’s priced for deprecation
Is the nid haruspex doing any good right now? One of my favourite models would be nice to know how effective it is
the Cultist Firebrand has somewhat of a purpose in Deceptors, cheap character to proc detonators, or you can give it soul link to copy something more useful, like terminator sorcerer's +1 AP
The fire brand could be interesting if he was a bit cheaper say 30 and he had a lieutenant style rule where you could bring him with the dark commune. Then you could have a large squad of cultists that would have some cool flamer attacks and all the buffs of the DC. Also if he could join traitor guardsman (and was cheaper) he also might be more interesting. Also the Traitor commissar is so much more expensive then he needs to be, but if he was cheaper and then he could lead regular cultists, I think he would be better, adding a melee punch to them.
Ork buggies man, I'd love to run a Speed Freeks list but it's just so many problems, most mentioned in the video, but also the price; £37 retail for 80 points is wild. You can run three trikes and three of each buggy and it's not even 1500 points, then try moving that around the board!
They need a big jump in both points cost and their datasheet - tougher, more wounds, more damage, absolutely won't happen this edition.
They're being slept on. They do work in kult of speed. I run a shitload and shoot shit off the board all the time. Dragsta is the best one, scrapjet is the second. Boosta and boomdakka are tied and that squigbuggy is just brutal. I'll admit that
I wish the CSM spawn cost came down a bit and that they could be fielded in units of 2, 4 or 6... Since they re so fofferent from all the other spawn in terms of rules anyhow.
With my space marines glasses on: I'd add centurions. Very expensive, slow and no character support.
They're really good in Vanguard Spearhead, though.
Those silly little rust buckets from crons can make a unit of wraiths suddenly qualify for cull the horde, which can be very annoying for your opponent
I plan on getting a reiver lieutenant for my Hounds of Morkai. From what I gathered, he can boost their attack range, and since the Hounds don't have deep strike, he's not really holding them back other than not having anti-psyker weapons. Would it be worth getting?
I don't care how bad the Venerable Dreadnought gets, i am NOT replacing him with those primaris abominations!
Amen
Sadly by now best thing that can happen for proper Dread is to get on "Legendary Proxies" list to field it as Ballsackus Dread :/ Basically same loadout, but you'd get smaller model size and better looking model.
Everyone knows the boxy boys have their death warrant signed and I find it really sad, they are as iconic as Termies to me.
@@Spaced92 EVEN IN DEATH, THEY WILL SERVE
@@Spaced92 they are as iconic as Assault squads. And they killed off these as well :(
The issue with ork buggies is entirely down to their rules. I'd rather they be buffed to be worth their current points than points reduced to justify their current state.
Yeah the core issue is not only do they need to do something for their points, they also need to do something for the space they take up on the table, they have a pretty big footprint for a unit that doesn't actually do anything.
@captainweekend5276 In kult of speed, they can actually shoot the shit out of alot of stuff. I use them and have decent success. Not sure why people think they're horrible. Are they great? No, but they're not some of the worst in the game
Gotta ask im about to start a Phobos strike team Kill team and seeing the Reiver lieutenant on this list makes me worry about having the Reiver Sergent as the one to lead my kill team would you guys say this list only applies to general armies or to kill team as well?
Banshees are not that bad?
Thanks!
I'm wondering though why the Grey Knights vehicles didn't make the list though as at least an honorable mention?
huh? csm spawn have OC0 but DG TS and WE have OC1?
New csm codex changed them. I'm sure the others will be the same when they have a new codex.
The T’au Firesight Team is so bad that even Auspex forgot about him
Just list all the ork buggies as a single entry.
The lone commissar is a cheap secondary machine.
normal spore mines are units of 3 to 6 not units of 4 and mucolid spores are 1 to 2 and they all have the potential to do something. absolutely the worst unit. also only 4" movement so even if you do deep strike they're unlikely to get in rage unless they get the charge off
No Death Guard Helbrute? His ability is absolut trash now, so he is more useless than the thousand sons one.
I really like Chaos Spawn and have a fair amount, but I just hate that they can only be taken in units of 2. I wish I could take a big unit of 6 or 10 or so, then they might be a little scary. A unit of 2 just feels like they can't do anything and are a complete waste of points, but at least a bigger group might threaten enemy units.
I've seen cryptothralls in necron list for Awakened Dynasty, he used them to boost stats of canoptek wraiths with technomancer, maybe not best points investment, but this was scary thing to play against.
no mention of the magus I assume you just forgot that gsc exists cause she is a 50 pt character that does less than the dogmata, she can try for a -1 to hit that can kill her, and un battleshock in an army where you can res models in the command phase to get out of rolling battleshock
trayzn is an amazing unit imo, the ability to get stick and teleport him around the board albeit at the cost of a character is pretty good
Who could have guessed firebrand to be a piece of ....
I don’t care what anyone says I’m still spamming buggies until it works
yeahhhhh!
zoggin stats ain't why we's orks!
Same. Kult of speed forever and idgaf.
The whole imperial agents list honourable mention is savage 😂
The Ork Buggies are fun to use, but don't do the damage they need to. Short of radical changes to their datasheets, which GW probably aren't doing this edition, a +1 to hit at 12" range for Kult Of Speed would help a lot, making their massed firepower a lot more likely to do something. Obviously it wouldn't help the Shokkjump Dragster much, but that thing actually fills a quite useful role teleporting about and trying to snipe out Characters, which a couple of them can do quite well. Kult of Speed in general needs a bit of a buff, Advance/ Fall Back and shoot is nice, but given that it's limited to the KoS units and even then is weaker than something like Bringers of Flame or Firestorm there's clearly something wrong there. I'd change it to army-wide Assault Weapons, with the Fall Back+ shoot and +1 to hit at 12" for KoS models in addition.
The Dogmata is a truly sad unit at the moment. This is a supposed melee character with WS 3+, which immediately puts her on the back foot vs the Palatine or Canoness who both have better melee and far, far more useful rules for 5 points more. She has a weak combo with Stern's battleshock test ability and you could use the Divine Aspect enhancement from Army of Faith to force a test and gain a Miracle Dice if it goes off, but that's about it. I think she needs more threat in melee and/or a strong squad-wide melee buff, or to grant Miracle Dice for kills in some way.
Just use the strats. Blitza fire and dakka storm. I'm stunned nobody mentions these. Especially blitza fire. You have any idea what lethal hits on 6s or 5+6s at half range does for orks firepower. It's basically doubles the effectiveness. With warbikers, buggies or deffkoptas with the twin linked rockets.......trust me, it does damage. I've had a squad of 6 warbikers take out almost 2 custodes before all my other stuff shoots.
@@CRose9205 I do. The last time I played KoS against Necrons I shot some eight buggies at Illuminor Szeras and didn't do enough damage to get past his Reanimation, and that was with using both strats on different buggies. I love KoS, but it really struggles with tough stuff at the moment.
Go ahead and add all the space wolves datasheets as well. Played a game against drukari and was wiped by turn 3
hehe~
When I saw the chapter titles I was like, "helbrutes! Helbrutes are great, my CSM one is always a great anchor for a fire base covering my chosen and legionnaries as they swarm the centre...oh the tsons one, yeah hes a bag o crap"
sounds like support Characters are all over costed to be fair. a full 50-60 points for +1 OC and -1 LD for opponents, or kill a 55pt model that drops your units ability.
LEADER units - 50pt+
SUPPORT LEADER units - 20-40pts (Must be attached to a unit)
Was getting excited to convert some ork buggies ... Maybe I can hold off for a bit 🤷♀️
oh come da zog _on,_ ya know ya ain't playing orks for da _stats!_
's cuz we look zoggin BRILLIANT, all cunnin' an bru'al!
I feel bad for the vet dreadnaught. I love his little adorable stubby guns. I’m thinking about buying one just to build it and not use it.
Noxious Blightbringer really needs a revamped/new ability instead of a points drop. It's at 45, and I suppose it could go to 40 or 35, but that seems unlikely.
i take a helbrute in my tsons because i wanted lascannons without having to take a predator (though now predators don't automatically suck, it's less of a consideration)
Thousand Sons Helbrute is potentially 3+ cabal points, so it really can be considered for competetive list. Also some melee threat in addition to Magnus and daemon-prince.
The refund doesn't stack as it's a named aura ability. Hence why helbrute still suck 😂. Being able to spend 2 cabals and get refunded 3 would be insanely broken
@@grahamwilliamson5306 I wasn't talking about 'stacking' aura effect, just using Lord of the Forbidden Lore enhancement (or just two different cabal rituals per turn) within 9" refund aura. For example, we have 16 cabal points pool. In our turn, we will use temporal surge + echoes of the warp, to use devastating sorcery stratagem for Magnus/SoT/IM with arcane vortex. So it'll be 16-5+1-6+1=7. As if we had 2 extra cabal points. So we can use these +2 for doombolt, or second temporal surge through LoFL psyker (7-5+1=3). And then, during enemy's turn, we can use these 3 cabal points for activating double weaver of fates cabal ritual (3-2+1-2+1=1), which gives us 4 more actually usable (technically 5) cabal points for only 130 points. And it's pretty durable, through 2+ save, also can randomly survive even high AP attacks (Gladiator Lancer, multi-melta, votann's hekaton land fortress, etc)
@@grahamwilliamson5306 I wasn't talking about 'stacking' aura effect, just using Lord of the Forbidden Lore enhancement (or just two different cabal rituals) within 9" refund aura. For example, we have 16 cabal points pool. In our turn, we will use temporal surge + echoes of the warp, to use devastating sorcery stratagem for Magnus/Set/IM with arcane vortex. So it'll be 16-5+1-6+1=7. As if we had 2 extra cabal points. So we can use these +2 for doombolt, or second temporal surge through LoFL psyker (7-5+1=3). And then, during enemy's turn, we can use these 3 cabal points for activating double weaver of fates cabal ritual (3-2+1-2+1=1), which gives us 4 more actually usable cabal points for only 130 points. And it's pretty durable, through 2+ save, also can randomly survive even high AP attacks (Gladiator Lancer, multi-melta, votann's hekaton land fortress, etc)
Merging all the Ork units into one slide? Sure does seem like we're downplaying that issue.
Cryptothralls aren't bad, they literally won me a golden ticket.
Was painting my cultist firebrand while listening to this 🎉
I hate the shadowseer... what in the hell is it supposed to do? If you're taking troupes (outside of a big unit + Ynnari characters) you're taking transports but the buff requires you to be disembarked in the command phase. Bah humbug
I feel like fortifications should be relegated to legends and given rules similar to crusade. They just have no real place in a tournament.
Might have missed the mark on the stompa, I know a few people having success with it.
The Obelisk has been crap for how many editions now?
Ive never seen a Palas Grav Attack fielded in 10th. There must be a reason.
TS Helbrute is here because theyre having running away and sufferinf from PTSD from that one Ultramarine Primaris Dreadnought that GYATtaling gunned one of them in the face and threw a Pillar at a Heldrake
i get the classic dreads arent the best but top ten weakest is insane atleast to me i stil run 1 in 500 pts and its helped me so much
Surprised blightlord termies didn't make the list. 31 points a model and still no one runs them. Pitiful damage output and 4" move.
One day, Trazyn may not be good, but at least somewhat playable
To see my boy Trazyn here is kinda sad, he will get his rework and Book Cover when 11 Edition Drops....maybe
Oh boy,
So many ork units mentioned...
Vote for the shadowseer. Gawdawful
kinda surprised Hellions arent on here, they catch a points decrease almost every points update but are still the worst unit in the game.
Bro hellions are good what you mean? T4 2W they are fast skirmishes that can hold thier own in cc