There were times in 2014 when people used Rhydon instead of Rhyperior due to it being a Lightningrod abuser with better overall bulk and access to the QuakeSlide combo. And then there was that one time last year when someone got Top 64 at U.S. Nationals with Gigantamax Pikachu.
Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see Rhydon missing from this video. I always thought of Rhydon as one of the most popular Eviolite users, and it was actually the first one I thought of when I saw the title.
I still remember when Eviolite was revealed. I knew Dusclops was about to get rediculous. My friends hated that thing lol. The wall they couldn't kill.
Sneasel over Weavile for Inner Focus Coalossal activation is a pretty niche one too ps nice Riolu/Hatterene footage, I bet the source video is really awesome 😉
There's a few others that are very nice. Eviolite Electabuzz while being worse at dealing dmg. Is a way better support w/ access to moves like discharge, helping hand, low kick, electroweb, brick break, etc. Not to mention it is surprisingly tanky. Able to eat disgusting amounts of dmg w/ max def and hp evs. And now w/ some of the mons in gen 9 we have Bisharp, Hisuian Qwilfish, and Basculin. (Basculin can actually run eviolite w/ very little defensive investment, allowing u to spec in just hp/attk and do some disgusting dmg w/ adaptability wave crashes)
Riolu has a point. A speed that is between 70 and 100 is really bad because those pokemon pretty much never move first. Fast pokemon? Usually move first. Slow pokemon? Usually move first in trick room. Mid-speed pokemon? They ain't movin' first.
Charjabug is actually pretty fkn underrated. It's the only pokemon in the entire series that has the Battery ability, which gives a life orb boost to your ally's special attacks just by being on the field. This ability stacks with the actual life orb, so if you're supporting your ally that is already holding a life orb, then you're basically doubling the power of their special attacks at that point. Not only does it benefit quite well with the eviolite, but it also has a variety of support moves like eerie impulse, electro web, and string shot. You could also run t wave, spark, or discharge to spread hax on the opposing side. Imo, Charjabug does a much better job as a support mon compared to Stonjourner when it comes to special attacking support since Power Spot only gives a 30% boost as opposed to Battery giving 50%. Stonjourner would be better suited on a physical team tbh
I think its also funny how garchomp's mega evolution is somehow worse than regular garchomp resulting in it getting 'banned by technicality' in most formats it would fit well in because it always has to start out as a better pokemon.
This is because garchomp loses speed when it mega evolves, the speed loss is not worth the extra power, which chomp usually gains away via swords dance
Pikachu wasnt better than raichu, but they were considered to be about as good as each other in most metas, most notably 2016, the year Raichu won worlds. Pikachu can hit surprisingly hard with the light ball making it better at getting your big legendaries free turns, while raichu had better speed, was made out of cardboard instead of tissue paper, and could hold an item.
Don't know what you're on about, Raichu won worlds cause it was great rain support, Pikachu hitting hard with light bulb doesn't help when it's slower much more fragile. I wouldn't say Pikachu was even close to being as useful in VGC
One small example was when Magmar had access to follow me and Eviolite. Not huge but Wolfe tried it... And i dont think Magmortar has ever been used at all.
In singles magneton and shelmet had niche tournament success in OU as well as all the pokemon you mentioned. Although not part of the same line sneasel-h might be better than weavile 😢
@@adrianclamens6679 shell armor for wicked blow and fighting resist made it one of the few mons who could actually take on Urshifu dark before it got banned. It wasn’t good but it could do that one job lmao
I like the part where he started with the "better because of eviolite" section and then every mon had a picture of eviolite on it until the end of the video!
Riolu was my GOAT in gen8. Coaching was so good and the fact that you could just copycat an enemy trick room made it so that Riolu teams were the most fun I had in gen8 by far.
Scyther vs scizor was debated (at least way back in gen 5/6 when i was super into competiive) because that speed drop on scizor was brutal, and sometimes you just wanted a bulkier pokemon, but this was in monotype where you werent always assured to find a steath rocker which is the major thing there
Galarian Corsola comes to mind. Also now that Flutter Mane exists and makes Mismagius all but obsolete, Eviolite Misdreavus serves a different purpose. Still not great but probably better than Mismagius.
Trapinch actually had a tiny niche alongside Calyrex Ice since it was the only Pokémon that could trap with Arena Trap and Feint which meant you could prevent Incineroar switch ins and guarantee kills on Zacian under trick room
Dmax pika might be an example. I remember it being used early on in gen 8 but I guess it fell off pretty hard. Doesn’t really count but Garchomp always outclassed mega-chomp in just about every format too
I made a fun Riolu team that involved him prankster screeching at a target, and Palafin Hero immediately jet punching that same target. Both being priority, I could usually get a kill before they even moved
I never knew about copycat calling the original version of a max move. That's a nice tech. I wonder what other kind of tricks you could do with negative priority moves like roar
I tried to run a Prankster Whimsicott with Sandaconda, but my strategy was still limited by my imagination. If I had known Copycat-Trick Room was a thing (let alone a thing on a Sandstorm-viable type), I'd have been a nuisance online.
A little known fact is that Poliwhirl actually has higher speed than either of its evolved forms. One could probably come up with some kind of gimmicky status or utility based set using Poliwhirl and Eviolite. It also benefits from Swift Swim, which Toad lacks. Poliwrath's fighting type can be seen as more of a defensive liability than anything else. But TBH probs not worth it.
Electabuzz can be used over Electavire. It has higher speed and the same special attack. With Eviolite, its defensive stats far eclipse its evolution. Since Electric type (in some generations more than others) tends to have better special attacks, Electavire's physical preference can be seen as sub-opimal.
Rhydon can also be a very good physical tank when holding an Eviolite. For example, with it's base 120 Defense, it can get boosted up to 170 while it's 45 Special Defense would go up to 68. And thanks to Sandstorm's buff that allows all Rock Pokemon to get a 50% Special Defense boost in the sandstorm, then Rhydon's Special Defense would go even up to around 101 on top of the Eviolite.
@@christianloder8127 Yeah, that's the point of the Ground/Rock typing. If it was given a Rock/Steel typing like Aggron or Probopass, then it would have been 4x weak to Fighting and Ground, which are super common attacking types in the game.
I'd rather be weak to fighting and ground since most if those types are easy to hack. Meanwhile being weak to water means lots of crazy ass mons almost unbeatable
Using Riolu in the restricted legend SWSH format was one of my favorite usages of a Pokémon, ever. I love the lucario line (I used to go by lucariodude on vizzed board) and seeing it get usage alongside *DIALGA* was insane.
Dusknoir really needs a HP boost (switch its 65 Sp. Atk with its 45 HP), Strength Sap (never give it to Clops), and Drain Punch Maybe take 10 more off of its Sp. Atk and move it to its Atk?
@@willkershisnik5893 unless you’re name is Annihilape Aegislash and Dragapult are mixed attackers, A-Marowak is exclusive to TR teams and Ceruledge is…….there At least the bad ones have 1 STAB move that none of Aegislash, Dragapult, Basculegion, Ceruledge (even if mid), and Annihilape don’t, and that STAB is Poltergeist (they’re still bad, even with the STAB, but that’s besides the point) Mimikyu doesn’t get Poltergeist either GF was scared it would make it broken
I didn't know it was good ever in VGC (that was just before I got into it at all), but I have used it in singles randbats where it's pretty annoying to deal with if you don't have a good counter
Not bad also a fun fact curse ivysaur did the same with eviolit vs gmax venusaur and was able to beat itb100 percent of the time. Loved the challenge and then they realize it was a God tier underdog.
This is more of a smogon singles example but while Slaking is a pretty forgettable mon even in the lowest tiers Vigoroth would sometimes 6-0 some teams there. Slaking has a very expansive movepool but because of it's infamous ability can't make much use of it. It's pre-evolution meanwhile can use a bulk up + slack off set with normal stab of choice and almost any attacking coverage it wants, from eq, elemental punches to shadow claw. It can even use taunt or substitute or encore or even yawn because if the opponent doesn't have a ghost type then just normal stab can even make do. That and the bulk it has from eviolite it's not even a easy mon to take down when not setup. Definitely not a "unleashed Slaking" so to speak, but a small taste.
Due to their status as mascots of the franchise, Pikachu (as you hinted at the end) and Eevee both have some pretty incredible options not given to their evolutions. Light Ball doubles Pikachu's attacking stats blowing Raichu out of the water offensively, and Eevee was given one of the strongest Z moves in the game in Extreme Eevoboost which grants a +2 stat boost to every stat without downside (which Eevee can then hand off to a more powerful Pokemon with Baton Pass). I can't speak to VGC, but in Smogon while their abysmal bulk mostly relegates them both to gimmick status, Eevoboost Baton Pass has seen some success in the Anything Goes tier (and was strong enough to be banned outside of it)
Magneton has a little more speed than Magnezone, and with Eviolite its far bulkier. In the role of a magnet-pull trapper, that extra speed might be essential for letting Magneton outspeed some of the steel types it traps (including its evolution). Magneton can outspeed Skarmory much more reliably and OHKO it.
@@MoxieBoosted I would like to say rhydon was better because of the lightning fest from one of the koko's but not sure if it fairs with anything else great...
In Gen 8 singles the only mid-evo that was better than the final evo was Porygon-2 which was in RU, while Porygon-Z was in NUBL. In Gen 9, the only example is Vigoroth which is ZUBL while Slaking is ZU
I’m calling it, Hisui Quilfish will be a stall beast. With eviolite it’s got wild defenses, can use stockpile to get even higher, and then gets rest. You reduce opponents’ attack, either enhancing your tankiness of forcing a swap turn loss, you toxic, set up your defenses a bit, rest, then keep doing that as you become increasingly indestructible. It will get to the point that you can take the two turns of rest for free since the opponent can’t KO you, then toxic the rest of the game.
In singles maybe, for doubles quilfish has the toxapex problem, other than poison things and set up it doesn't really do anything, you can just ignore it and focus down its partners then deal with the qwilfish when everything else is dead.
I don't know a single thing about pokemon. Let me clear my throat real quick. Ahem. RIOLU???????????????????????????????? RI-FUCKING-O-FUCKING-LU????????????????????????? HELLO????????????????????????????
If vgc wasn't doubles but rather 6v6 singles. I feel like moxie would be much more viable. With doubles your basically capped at 3 boosts maybe. But given you have to stay alive its much harder then just sweeping everything with a move like double kick thus preventing them from even having a chance with foucus sash or sturdy. I especially like Krookodile with scale shoot it increases its speed on top of blocking focus sash and sturdy. But I think thats the point of vgc. They don't want one super strong mon just sweeping. While I'm not a fan of doubles I understand its a much more complex form of battle.
I made it top 300 in a competitive online tournament (first and only I ever joined) during sword and shield with coaching riolu and azumarill with assault vest. With riolu, azumarill became an absolute menace and tank, especially with dynamax.
I know by now it's already common knowledge because of their usage, but magmar and electabuzz are getting better results than their evos because of eviolite, access to follow me and helping hand, and burn/paralysis inducing abilities, along with better speed and usable offense.
TR HO with stak pre restricted or caly ice post restricted was my FAVORITE team to run all gen 8. I love riolu and i hope one day he can shine just like how he used to.
As a pory-z enjoyer, it's so sad how turning it from cool duck to cooler glitchy duck makes it worse. I just wish Z had the slight bit more power or speed it needs, if it was slightly faster you could reliably specs it and blast through things, and if it hit slightly harder you would be fine to scarf it for the extra speed, but as it is it's just not quite strong enough to get important kills, and not quite fast enough to outspeed important things without a scarf.
I have no idea if it's ever been VGC viable, I only ever played around with it on Smogon and rand bats, I assume it never really sees use because its evolution is so good and other Eviolite users are better, but Golbat is not a terrible eviolite user either. Like Dusclops it was designed as fully evolved initially and has a both pretty good speed and HP. I suppose you could make a case for many Pokémon that received later evolutions too, like Chansey. Although we're probably outside the scope of what's viable for competitive, Electabuzz and Magmar for example both have OK damage output, good speed and a solid special defense stat. I suppose the real issue with those two is a lack of healing, so they function better for your playthrough than anything competitive.
Definately not a case of actually being more viable but I love using Scyther with Eviolite. It has strong Speed and Attack with decent 80 base def and spec. def, which works well with the eviolite. It's worst atribute is it's typing, so when Gen 9 rolled out I had a new plan! My set was: Scyther Technician Eviolite Water Tera Max HP, Max Speed, Jolly Tailwind, Aerial Ace, Pounce & Swords Dance. Paired with Lightning Rod Raichu with Fake Out this caught a lot of people off guard, facing them with a Bulky Pokémon that sets up Tailwind followed by Swords Dance (if you wasted their first turn well enough).
While not *Better*, there are some use cases where Cottonee outshines Whimsicott, namely if your Focus Sash is needed elsewhere on the team. Outside of VGC, I can think of a few instances of this being true, though: Poliwhirl had better speed and wasn't weak to Psychic, which made it the better Amnesia sweeper in Gen I's lower tiers, though Poliwrath does better in OU due to having Submission for Chancey/The Speed not mattering as much since it basically only lets you outspeed Chancey instead of speedtie it. While Flygon is better than Trapinch in most cases, Trapinch does have Arena Trap, an Electric immunity, and existed in gens that don't have team preview, making it a budget Dugtrio of sorts for some lower tiers in Gen III
Dusclops is actually very strong, it’s pretty bulky abd in combination with pain splint it stays on the battlefield forever. It can cripple most physical threats with will-o-whisp and with i think 85 atk and stab hex it also deals very decent damage.
Magmar was better than Magmortar for vgc. Because it could get follow me from pokemon gales of darkness. Eviolite and flame body let you redirect moves and give the chance to burn if they were contact. It was so good, it was one of the biggest reasons why Gamefreak made the rule changes that you could only use pokemon native to the game. Electabuzz would be better than Electivire for this same reason but Magmar was used more
cottene and haunter are also amazing pokemons with eviolite cause cottene has access to prankster and haunter has levitate which makes it immune to ground moves
The Porygon line is pretty funny. Porygon2 in particular being the only Pokemon that is evolved from a former fully-evolved Pokemon, yet can use Eviolite.
I ran Riolu on sooo many teams in Gen 8. Copycat TR, copycat to reverse opposing TR, copying a tailwind, coaching boosts, even side-proccing weakness policy with bullet punch or mach punch. I was thrilled to hatch a shiny riolu just in time for my caly-ice team
Wouldn't say it's a top tier pick but it's pretty durable with egg move leech seed, moreso than Meganium. Not saying it'd be a big pick but that I would pick it over Meganium in competitive. Can use Reflect and Light Screen as well to make it a decent support pokemon. Leaves only one slot for flexibility and it's vulnerable to taunt. But it's not bad.@@theflaminggroundon632
didnt expect riolu, mostly i just wondered about dusclops because i saw wolf glick use it allll the time and i always wondered why it could be better then its evolution
I barely know about VGC, but considering that Clefairy was leaked to be back in the DLC, do you think that Clefairy will be used? Or people will stick with Maushold?
As a washed out singles player it was cool seeing what was different and the same due to the relative speed difference of the formats. The Chancey Dilemma and Duskclops being the same was neat while not seeing some of the weirdos from singles (The F E A R squad) was fun.
Porygon2 is not better than Porygon-Z in every gen. In some he is mostly just different. Porygon-Z is a much better sweeper. (Especially in Gen VII where he can do Z-Conversion.) And Porygon2 has always had a niche over Porygon-Z since Gen IV. Even without Eviolite, Porygon2 is still significantly bulkier than Porygon-Z and Trace better ability for a defensive Pokémon than both Adaptability and Download.
im SO sorry riolu can do WHAT NOW??? i dont even play or am involved much w/ competitive (i wanna tho) but ik what trickroom does, and ik what priority is AND THAT IS DISGUSTING- oh my GOSH-
I saw the TITLE of the video and immediately and angrily said: "DON'T you dare say Chansey with Eviolite..." fucking out here disrespecting my old SkarmBliss core with your propaganda...
"Chansey devours its young" Not quite. Unless Chansey is regularly having sex(which I mean with a singular curve like that, who could say no?) those eggs are not fertilized and therefore invalid as reproductive agents once they've already been expelled from the uterus. "Chansey derives power from consuming own menstruation" is more accurate.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Now do a video on evolved pokemon that are better than their pre evolutions- please cover every example.
*Thousands of pokemon*
Ah, yes! A 6 day video
@@TundraRageThere is only like 600 Pokemon with a Prevolution
@@pixelpiekser including NFEs?
I doubt that't even go past 1 minute, so few examples smh.
I lost it at "It has access to protect"
Truly shows how big the movepool of the clefa line is
Regigigas in shambles
@@MoxieBoosted Until Gen 8, at least.
@@MoxieBoosted Doodle Grafaiai would like a word
well, it gets extra use out of it considering its not skipping its turn since its ability is so good
There’s also Galarian Mr Mime which outclasses Mr Rime, partly because of Eviolite access, but also because of its higher Speed
I'm so mad rn
The randbats menace... Rip in dexcut
The delta is probably better the the standard one too
Both are Untiered and trash lol
Before watching the video the 3 I can think of are Chansey (obviously), Wartortle (spin version) and Dusclops
There were times in 2014 when people used Rhydon instead of Rhyperior due to it being a Lightningrod abuser with better overall bulk and access to the QuakeSlide combo.
And then there was that one time last year when someone got Top 64 at U.S. Nationals with Gigantamax Pikachu.
God Koko was a menace.
I don't think they were implying Raichu is worse.
thing is that yeah they have niches but both rhyperior and raichu are miles better than their pre-evos
@@trainno.5806Yeah, it’sss jussst that the light ball exissstsss.
Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see Rhydon missing from this video. I always thought of Rhydon as one of the most popular Eviolite users, and it was actually the first one I thought of when I saw the title.
I still remember when Eviolite was revealed. I knew Dusclops was about to get rediculous. My friends hated that thing lol. The wall they couldn't kill.
Eviolite Dusclops is annoying as heck
Eviolite G.Corsola too with Cursed Body
The dusclops hate is real. :D
"Dusclops violates the 4th Amendment" has me laughing so hard because of one of its abilities.
That is very good but I misread the joke as violating the second amendment, presuming because man's got no arms
I don’t get the joke. Ik the 4th amendment protects against unwarranted searches and requires warrants for searching
@@agentblackbird9435It’s hidden ability is Frisk, which lets you know what items the enemy Pokémon are holding
@@Duckular that's actually a really clever joke
Sneasel over Weavile for Inner Focus Coalossal activation is a pretty niche one too
ps nice Riolu/Hatterene footage, I bet the source video is really awesome 😉
They really are. IDR who they are but I remember enjoying their vids a lot
There's a few others that are very nice.
Eviolite Electabuzz while being worse at dealing dmg. Is a way better support w/ access to moves like discharge, helping hand, low kick, electroweb, brick break, etc. Not to mention it is surprisingly tanky. Able to eat disgusting amounts of dmg w/ max def and hp evs.
And now w/ some of the mons in gen 9 we have
Bisharp, Hisuian Qwilfish, and Basculin. (Basculin can actually run eviolite w/ very little defensive investment, allowing u to spec in just hp/attk and do some disgusting dmg w/ adaptability wave crashes)
Riolu: "You really think you can be a good evolution when you only have 90 base speed?" THINK LUCARIO, THINK
Lucario: 😢
😂😂😂😂😂
Riolu has a point. A speed that is between 70 and 100 is really bad because those pokemon pretty much never move first. Fast pokemon? Usually move first. Slow pokemon? Usually move first in trick room. Mid-speed pokemon? They ain't movin' first.
Riolu: You really think you can be viable when Urshifu exists. He’s faster and stronger.
THINK LUCARIO, THINK.
Charjabug is actually pretty fkn underrated. It's the only pokemon in the entire series that has the Battery ability, which gives a life orb boost to your ally's special attacks just by being on the field. This ability stacks with the actual life orb, so if you're supporting your ally that is already holding a life orb, then you're basically doubling the power of their special attacks at that point. Not only does it benefit quite well with the eviolite, but it also has a variety of support moves like eerie impulse, electro web, and string shot. You could also run t wave, spark, or discharge to spread hax on the opposing side.
Imo, Charjabug does a much better job as a support mon compared to Stonjourner when it comes to special attacking support since Power Spot only gives a 30% boost as opposed to Battery giving 50%. Stonjourner would be better suited on a physical team tbh
Just breezing by to let you know 11mo later: Both Life Orb and Battery only give a 30% boost
I think its also funny how garchomp's mega evolution is somehow worse than regular garchomp resulting in it getting 'banned by technicality' in most formats it would fit well in because it always has to start out as a better pokemon.
This is because garchomp loses speed when it mega evolves, the speed loss is not worth the extra power, which chomp usually gains away via swords dance
Pikachu wasnt better than raichu, but they were considered to be about as good as each other in most metas, most notably 2016, the year Raichu won worlds. Pikachu can hit surprisingly hard with the light ball making it better at getting your big legendaries free turns, while raichu had better speed, was made out of cardboard instead of tissue paper, and could hold an item.
Yeah, it's like the inverse of the examples here, the pre-evo is the offensive one while the fully evolved one is mainly support
CARDBOARD AND TISSUE PAPER NAH
He is !!!
Don't know what you're on about, Raichu won worlds cause it was great rain support, Pikachu hitting hard with light bulb doesn't help when it's slower much more fragile. I wouldn't say Pikachu was even close to being as useful in VGC
Murkrow when tornadus: not stocks
Stonksn't
But Tornadus can't Tailwind with Murkrow on field, so Murkrow wins the mirror tailwind setup wars
@@randomcatname7792 use mental herb, like everyone is doing now.
Besides tornadus can use tailwind, it affects to the fiel so it doesnt matter if the oponent is a dark type or not
@@Nmoment-uv6jc you know what... I forgot about that lmfao. Thanks
My little robotic duck Porygon 2 is one of my favorite pokemon ever. Bulky AF but also outputs decent damage. So fun to use
Min speed, analytic is actually kinda underrated
Guess what it also can one shoot landorus T
One small example was when Magmar had access to follow me and Eviolite. Not huge but Wolfe tried it... And i dont think Magmortar has ever been used at all.
Gotta try picking that up again, haven't realized that duck monster was good until I tried a full team electabuzz
Magmortar hits hard with fire blast buts thats basically all he does
In singles magneton and shelmet had niche tournament success in OU as well as all the pokemon you mentioned. Although not part of the same line sneasel-h might be better than weavile 😢
I’ve never seen a Shelmet being used! What does it do?
@@adrianclamens6679 It was a bulky ground resist with recovery and set up spikes.
@@adrianclamens6679 shell armor for wicked blow and fighting resist made it one of the few mons who could actually take on Urshifu dark before it got banned. It wasn’t good but it could do that one job lmao
I like the part where he started with the "better because of eviolite" section and then every mon had a picture of eviolite on it until the end of the video!
Riolu was my GOAT in gen8. Coaching was so good and the fact that you could just copycat an enemy trick room made it so that Riolu teams were the most fun I had in gen8 by far.
Scyther vs scizor was debated (at least way back in gen 5/6 when i was super into competiive) because that speed drop on scizor was brutal, and sometimes you just wanted a bulkier pokemon, but this was in monotype where you werent always assured to find a steath rocker which is the major thing there
Technician bullet punch makes ups for the slower speed
I always prefer Scyther over scisor
Galarian Corsola comes to mind. Also now that Flutter Mane exists and makes Mismagius all but obsolete, Eviolite Misdreavus serves a different purpose. Still not great but probably better than Mismagius.
I dont remember how much tournament success it had but extreme evoboost teams were a thing in sun and moon, that team used both eevee and clefairy
Didn't it involve using Extreme Evoboost and then switching with Baton Pass?
Trapinch actually had a tiny niche alongside Calyrex Ice since it was the only Pokémon that could trap with Arena Trap and Feint which meant you could prevent Incineroar switch ins and guarantee kills on Zacian under trick room
Oh yeah, I remembered Trapinch got 2nd at a regional one time.
Just in case this went down in editing and scripting .. but you forgot the mention that Porygon 2 oneshots Landorus T ... just saying
Dmax pika might be an example. I remember it being used early on in gen 8 but I guess it fell off pretty hard. Doesn’t really count but Garchomp always outclassed mega-chomp in just about every format too
I made a fun Riolu team that involved him prankster screeching at a target, and Palafin Hero immediately jet punching that same target. Both being priority, I could usually get a kill before they even moved
I never knew about copycat calling the original version of a max move. That's a nice tech. I wonder what other kind of tricks you could do with negative priority moves like roar
I tried to run a Prankster Whimsicott with Sandaconda, but my strategy was still limited by my imagination. If I had known Copycat-Trick Room was a thing (let alone a thing on a Sandstorm-viable type), I'd have been a nuisance online.
no need to wait for whimsicott, murkrow is already outcassed by tornadus
That's not entirely true, Murkrow actually still has advantages over him
@@randomcatname7792 It´s a Dark type, so you don´t have to worry about prankster taunt. What else?
@@frozenherolp9077 focus sash Murkrow one shotting sweepers with foul play!
@@rafaelmehret5952 haze is dead with dondozo
Okay yeah I was familiar with most of these but there was no way I ever saw Riolu coming other than with the thumbnail but it makes sense.
It might not outclass its evolution, but Eviolite Scyther was a force to be reckoned with in Gen 5. That Aerial Ace hit like a truck.
Scyther, magmar, and electabuzz honestly sounds pretty good
@@theflaminggroundon632see also: gen 1 competitive Pokémon TCG
thumbnail is straight fire
A little known fact is that Poliwhirl actually has higher speed than either of its evolved forms. One could probably come up with some kind of gimmicky status or utility based set using Poliwhirl and Eviolite. It also benefits from Swift Swim, which Toad lacks. Poliwrath's fighting type can be seen as more of a defensive liability than anything else. But TBH probs not worth it.
Electabuzz can be used over Electavire. It has higher speed and the same special attack. With Eviolite, its defensive stats far eclipse its evolution. Since Electric type (in some generations more than others) tends to have better special attacks, Electavire's physical preference can be seen as sub-opimal.
I remember trying to make a team of electabuzzes, but man they were so much better than the team of Electorbs or how ya spell em
Rhydon can also be a very good physical tank when holding an Eviolite. For example, with it's base 120 Defense, it can get boosted up to 170 while it's 45 Special Defense would go up to 68. And thanks to Sandstorm's buff that allows all Rock Pokemon to get a 50% Special Defense boost in the sandstorm, then Rhydon's Special Defense would go even up to around 101 on top of the Eviolite.
i think the problem with rhydon is typing
@@Malam_NightYoru Well at least it doesn't have a Steel/Rock combination with 4x weakness to Fighting and Ground. LMAO
@@sirmoony5633 But instead 4x weakness to water and grass
@@christianloder8127 Yeah, that's the point of the Ground/Rock typing. If it was given a Rock/Steel typing like Aggron or Probopass, then it would have been 4x weak to Fighting and Ground, which are super common attacking types in the game.
I'd rather be weak to fighting and ground since most if those types are easy to hack. Meanwhile being weak to water means lots of crazy ass mons almost unbeatable
"one shots landorus t" needs to say as a running joke
Using Riolu in the restricted legend SWSH format was one of my favorite usages of a Pokémon, ever. I love the lucario line (I used to go by lucariodude on vizzed board) and seeing it get usage alongside *DIALGA* was insane.
I always like these types of videos. I hope we get another video on Pokémon that are carried by their abilities. Also fuck Porygon-2.
Dusknoir really needs a HP boost (switch its 65 Sp. Atk with its 45 HP), Strength Sap (never give it to Clops), and Drain Punch
Maybe take 10 more off of its Sp. Atk and move it to its Atk?
Why? Not every Pokémon needs to be good and dusclops being good makes it have one Pokémon in its family that’s viable
Dusknoir would be extremely good with just small buffs
@@randomcatname7792 no he wouldn’t. Ghost type has too much competition and physical ghosts aren’t good in the first place
@@willkershisnik5893 unless you’re name is Annihilape
Aegislash and Dragapult are mixed attackers, A-Marowak is exclusive to TR teams and Ceruledge is…….there
At least the bad ones have 1 STAB move that none of Aegislash, Dragapult, Basculegion, Ceruledge (even if mid), and Annihilape don’t, and that STAB is Poltergeist (they’re still bad, even with the STAB, but that’s besides the point)
Mimikyu doesn’t get Poltergeist either GF was scared it would make it broken
Dusknoir needs a good ghost move to outclass clops, maybe rage fist 🥺
it's kind of weird how the original punch ghost pokemon line has neither Iron Fist nor Rage Fist.
Galarian Corsola would be for me the best example at the beginning of VGC of SWSH
I didn't know it was good ever in VGC (that was just before I got into it at all), but I have used it in singles randbats where it's pretty annoying to deal with if you don't have a good counter
Was good in singles too up until the dex opened up and everything got Knock Off back
There are some Pokémon I prefer to their evolutions, like Togetic, Dusclops, Porygon2, and many others
nothing will ever beat jamie boyt and his cottenee, i cant wait to use her when DLC 2 drops
Not bad also a fun fact curse ivysaur did the same with eviolit vs gmax venusaur and was able to beat itb100 percent of the time. Loved the challenge and then they realize it was a God tier underdog.
This is more of a smogon singles example but while Slaking is a pretty forgettable mon even in the lowest tiers Vigoroth would sometimes 6-0 some teams there. Slaking has a very expansive movepool but because of it's infamous ability can't make much use of it. It's pre-evolution meanwhile can use a bulk up + slack off set with normal stab of choice and almost any attacking coverage it wants, from eq, elemental punches to shadow claw. It can even use taunt or substitute or encore or even yawn because if the opponent doesn't have a ghost type then just normal stab can even make do. That and the bulk it has from eviolite it's not even a easy mon to take down when not setup. Definitely not a "unleashed Slaking" so to speak, but a small taste.
Imagine if Clefable kept friend guard
Would be a bit frightening
I know Smogon isn't as relevant, but *sometimes* eviolite Golbat sees usage in NU.
Due to their status as mascots of the franchise, Pikachu (as you hinted at the end) and Eevee both have some pretty incredible options not given to their evolutions. Light Ball doubles Pikachu's attacking stats blowing Raichu out of the water offensively, and Eevee was given one of the strongest Z moves in the game in Extreme Eevoboost which grants a +2 stat boost to every stat without downside (which Eevee can then hand off to a more powerful Pokemon with Baton Pass). I can't speak to VGC, but in Smogon while their abysmal bulk mostly relegates them both to gimmick status, Eevoboost Baton Pass has seen some success in the Anything Goes tier (and was strong enough to be banned outside of it)
For me G corsola eviolite willowisp calm mind sap strength and hex with cursed body is just funny
Magneton has a little more speed than Magnezone, and with Eviolite its far bulkier. In the role of a magnet-pull trapper, that extra speed might be essential for letting Magneton outspeed some of the steel types it traps (including its evolution). Magneton can outspeed Skarmory much more reliably and OHKO it.
Sound balance is a little heavy on the music side. Hard to hear you over the bass-y whomps
Great video Marcus! 🎉 I hope to see more like this in the future!
LOVE this edited discussion content!! Keep it coming!
Qwilfish, Stantler, and Ursaring might get there with their new Hisulian evolutions being available. Also Rhydon might have been there at one point.
The only one here I could actually see being better is qwilfish
@@MoxieBoosted Ursaring just needs a burn or poison partner to work. Guts Facade.
@SirStanleytheStumbler I think most of the time you're better off with ursaluna tbh. Similar bulk, much less setup
@@MoxieBoosted I would like to say rhydon was better because of the lightning fest from one of the koko's but not sure if it fairs with anything else great...
In Gen 8 singles the only mid-evo that was better than the final evo was Porygon-2 which was in RU, while Porygon-Z was in NUBL.
In Gen 9, the only example is Vigoroth which is ZUBL while Slaking is ZU
I am pretty sure any case where Slaking exists, Vigoroth would be better by default.
I’m calling it, Hisui Quilfish will be a stall beast. With eviolite it’s got wild defenses, can use stockpile to get even higher, and then gets rest. You reduce opponents’ attack, either enhancing your tankiness of forcing a swap turn loss, you toxic, set up your defenses a bit, rest, then keep doing that as you become increasingly indestructible. It will get to the point that you can take the two turns of rest for free since the opponent can’t KO you, then toxic the rest of the game.
haze and clearsmog say HI
In singles maybe, for doubles quilfish has the toxapex problem, other than poison things and set up it doesn't really do anything, you can just ignore it and focus down its partners then deal with the qwilfish when everything else is dead.
I Don't play vgc so I didn’t knew about murkrow & riolu but I knew about the other three & clefairy as well because I played a bit vgc in gen7.
I don't know a single thing about pokemon. Let me clear my throat real quick. Ahem. RIOLU???????????????????????????????? RI-FUCKING-O-FUCKING-LU????????????????????????? HELLO????????????????????????????
Prankster is simply built different
If vgc wasn't doubles but rather 6v6 singles. I feel like moxie would be much more viable.
With doubles your basically capped at 3 boosts maybe. But given you have to stay alive its much harder then just sweeping everything with a move like double kick thus preventing them from even having a chance with foucus sash or sturdy. I especially like Krookodile with scale shoot it increases its speed on top of blocking focus sash and sturdy.
But I think thats the point of vgc. They don't want one super strong mon just sweeping. While I'm not a fan of doubles I understand its a much more complex form of battle.
I believe Magmar was used in one specific instance in gen 5, but the set wasn't legal in future generations
Kinda wish the move snucked into its move pool though
I made it top 300 in a competitive online tournament (first and only I ever joined) during sword and shield with coaching riolu and azumarill with assault vest. With riolu, azumarill became an absolute menace and tank, especially with dynamax.
I know by now it's already common knowledge because of their usage, but magmar and electabuzz are getting better results than their evos because of eviolite, access to follow me and helping hand, and burn/paralysis inducing abilities, along with better speed and usable offense.
TR HO with stak pre restricted or caly ice post restricted was my FAVORITE team to run all gen 8.
I love riolu and i hope one day he can shine just like how he used to.
As a pory-z enjoyer, it's so sad how turning it from cool duck to cooler glitchy duck makes it worse. I just wish Z had the slight bit more power or speed it needs, if it was slightly faster you could reliably specs it and blast through things, and if it hit slightly harder you would be fine to scarf it for the extra speed, but as it is it's just not quite strong enough to get important kills, and not quite fast enough to outspeed important things without a scarf.
If we count Pokémon that outperform their mega, garchomp has to be added, aswell as arguably sceptile. Also slakoth is outperforming slaking currently
I have no idea if it's ever been VGC viable, I only ever played around with it on Smogon and rand bats, I assume it never really sees use because its evolution is so good and other Eviolite users are better, but Golbat is not a terrible eviolite user either. Like Dusclops it was designed as fully evolved initially and has a both pretty good speed and HP.
I suppose you could make a case for many Pokémon that received later evolutions too, like Chansey. Although we're probably outside the scope of what's viable for competitive, Electabuzz and Magmar for example both have OK damage output, good speed and a solid special defense stat. I suppose the real issue with those two is a lack of healing, so they function better for your playthrough than anything competitive.
They work but the vid was discussing pre-evolutions that outclass their evolution
@@MoxieBoosted I'm aware, should that stop me from discussing eviolite more broadly?
Haunter would be a consideration as well. Didn't some one use it in VGC to some success, eince it has Levitate and Gengar doesn't?
00:30 click here to start the video
Definately not a case of actually being more viable but I love using Scyther with Eviolite. It has strong Speed and Attack with decent 80 base def and spec. def, which works well with the eviolite. It's worst atribute is it's typing, so when Gen 9 rolled out I had a new plan!
My set was:
Scyther
Technician
Eviolite
Water Tera
Max HP, Max Speed, Jolly
Tailwind, Aerial Ace, Pounce & Swords Dance.
Paired with Lightning Rod Raichu with Fake Out this caught a lot of people off guard, facing them with a Bulky Pokémon that sets up Tailwind followed by Swords Dance (if you wasted their first turn well enough).
While not *Better*, there are some use cases where Cottonee outshines Whimsicott, namely if your Focus Sash is needed elsewhere on the team. Outside of VGC, I can think of a few instances of this being true, though: Poliwhirl had better speed and wasn't weak to Psychic, which made it the better Amnesia sweeper in Gen I's lower tiers, though Poliwrath does better in OU due to having Submission for Chancey/The Speed not mattering as much since it basically only lets you outspeed Chancey instead of speedtie it. While Flygon is better than Trapinch in most cases, Trapinch does have Arena Trap, an Electric immunity, and existed in gens that don't have team preview, making it a budget Dugtrio of sorts for some lower tiers in Gen III
Dusclops is actually very strong, it’s pretty bulky abd in combination with pain splint it stays on the battlefield forever. It can cripple most physical threats with will-o-whisp and with i think 85 atk and stab hex it also deals very decent damage.
Not overall less viable but I heard of cottonee getting used over whimsicott for a team somewhere
Magmar was better than Magmortar for vgc. Because it could get follow me from pokemon gales of darkness. Eviolite and flame body let you redirect moves and give the chance to burn if they were contact.
It was so good, it was one of the biggest reasons why Gamefreak made the rule changes that you could only use pokemon native to the game.
Electabuzz would be better than Electivire for this same reason but Magmar was used more
As a baby Pokémon enthusiast, I see Riolu's strat as an absolute win.
cottene and haunter are also amazing pokemons with eviolite cause cottene has access to prankster and haunter has levitate which makes it immune to ground moves
The Porygon line is pretty funny. Porygon2 in particular being the only Pokemon that is evolved from a former fully-evolved Pokemon, yet can use Eviolite.
I ran Riolu on sooo many teams in Gen 8. Copycat TR, copycat to reverse opposing TR, copying a tailwind, coaching boosts, even side-proccing weakness policy with bullet punch or mach punch.
I was thrilled to hatch a shiny riolu just in time for my caly-ice team
That Porygon 2 bit had me laughing like crazy
Eviolite Bayleef gets a pretty big boost too, more than it does from leveling up by a landslide and the hp boost isn’t that big from Meganium.
Haven't really thought of evolite bayleef, is it any good?
Wouldn't say it's a top tier pick but it's pretty durable with egg move leech seed, moreso than Meganium. Not saying it'd be a big pick but that I would pick it over Meganium in competitive. Can use Reflect and Light Screen as well to make it a decent support pokemon. Leaves only one slot for flexibility and it's vulnerable to taunt. But it's not bad.@@theflaminggroundon632
6:20 protect has 10, not 30 pp
It just feels like it has 30pp
I don't know if it is better, but Eviolite Charjabug is one of my favs. And the fact that you can run it with Vikavolt is wholesome
Honestly dude even when i already know what you're teaching i watch because you have the best memes
Bro missed galarian corsula
This was great, Marcos. Loved the silly goosery of this one.
didnt expect riolu, mostly i just wondered about dusclops because i saw wolf glick use it allll the time and i always wondered why it could be better then its evolution
Haunter has levitate
I'm not a competitive player but I can see benefits to using pikachu over raichu because of the light ball item. Especially if tailwind is set up.
Raichu isnt good either and Pikachus base stats make it so light ball doesnt matter, plenty of other, better electric attackers
Surprised you didn’t mention FEAR
I barely know about VGC, but considering that Clefairy was leaked to be back in the DLC, do you think that Clefairy will be used? Or people will stick with Maushold?
Depends on the team tbh
The Invincible thumbnail is brilliant btw
what I learned from this video is that a lot of pokemon lose prankster when evolving
As a washed out singles player it was cool seeing what was different and the same due to the relative speed difference of the formats. The Chancey Dilemma and Duskclops being the same was neat while not seeing some of the weirdos from singles (The F E A R squad) was fun.
Loved the use of Dorkly at the beginning lol
Copycat Riolu actually got a little bit of gimmicky usage in Gen 6 singles when combined with Reversal at 1 HP
Some of the FEAR Pokémon outclassed their evos
Rattata, Aron, and another or two IIRC
Cottonee is a pre-evo Whimiscott, and even then it didn’t used the FEAR strat in VGC
Porygon2 is not better than Porygon-Z in every gen. In some he is mostly just different. Porygon-Z is a much better sweeper. (Especially in Gen VII where he can do Z-Conversion.)
And Porygon2 has always had a niche over Porygon-Z since Gen IV. Even without Eviolite, Porygon2 is still significantly bulkier than Porygon-Z and Trace better ability for a defensive Pokémon than both Adaptability and Download.
Pikachu because it can use light ball
The thought of staring down a Calyrex in a priority Trick Room sent literal chills down my spins 🥶
Pikachu isn't better that Raichu. IT s flower has less defences and Raichu van have life orb or choince scarf
im SO sorry riolu can do WHAT NOW???
i dont even play or am involved much w/ competitive (i wanna tho)
but ik what trickroom does, and ik what priority is
AND THAT IS DISGUSTING- oh my GOSH-
I saw the TITLE of the video and immediately and angrily said: "DON'T you dare say Chansey with Eviolite..." fucking out here disrespecting my old SkarmBliss core with your propaganda...
"Chansey devours its young"
Not quite. Unless Chansey is regularly having sex(which I mean with a singular curve like that, who could say no?) those eggs are not fertilized and therefore invalid as reproductive agents once they've already been expelled from the uterus.
"Chansey derives power from consuming own menstruation" is more accurate.