I''m crying listening to this because I just don't see a way to talk about it. I tried at first and it was so embarrassing to see the looks on their faces. I feel so ashamed even though I was the one who was bullied, gaslighted, scapegoated and cheated. What is for me a terrible, painful tragedy and hole in my heart to others can just be juicy gossip to pass along. Mutual friends and relatives all sided with my sisters without even hearing my side. Now, I don't trust people to really understand and I really don't want anyone else to know because it tarnishes my family name and they may assume I'm to blame.
I'm sorry to hear this but I understand. What you describe is mobbing or group bullying. Cowards always seek groups to belong to no matter how evil the group. They need to belong as they are fearful. It is why Hitler was so popular. It's the same evil behaviour. Some people love to be in thrall of a tyrant. You have to realise that people aren't inherently good at all. A lot of people are drawn to evil and the darkness. There are people out there that aren't like this. Look at the other comments, you are not alone. There is more of us that have been through this than you think. I became a Christian in part because of this evil family dynamic that almost destroyed me but I am healing now as I have a close relationship with God. Please try to cultivate a life away from your family. When you meet other people who you do like you only need to say 'we don't get on' and move on. Most people now understand that there can be rifts in families. If a person acts really weird and guilts you about your family then that person is very likely to be disordered themselves and will likely try to abuse you in the future. Anyone who victim blames is a cowardly abuser, period. I hope you find peace and healing and find your own family who cares for you.
Also a huge rule is NEVER have mutual friends. They will always side with the narcissists. Why? Because you are just acting normal whilethe Narc will lovebomb the socks off them. A normal relationship pales in comparison to the grandiose, golden,all lights flashing,circus of the Narcs lovebombing manipulation. It is like a little plain hut next door to the circus on carnival night. The little hut doesn't stand a chance. Move your little hut away from the circus that overwhelms you. The only chance you have of friendship is having your own friends that the Narc doesn't even know about. Keep secrets from the Narc. I repeat, keep secrets from the Narc. Oversharing with people who mean you harm is codependency and enmeshment. They do not deserve your trust. Trust must be earned. Please take very good care of yourself.
@@lastthingsministry "Outside" people who don't get it, think the comparison with Hitler is just an exaggerated joke. It sure ain't a joke, albeit not involving deaths, our "narcs" pull us in their web and get us to feel that they are somehow right or that we can't find a viable way to get out of that sticky web. No offense to beautiful spiders intended.
4:58 this is a really good point. We tend to either isolate ourselves or overshare. When raised in a cluster B family we have been raised without boundaries so we tend to overshare and overexplain to others. People can pick up the neediness in ourselves needing to be heard. A compassionate and mature person can see this as a vulnerability and wish to protect us and go carefully, a toxic person will see it and expolit it. If someone doesnt respect your feelings or reasons for family distance then they will likely disrespect you in other aspects. This people are not good for you. If they dont understand then move on. If they describe their own family as being perfect then run as they are probably liars.
I don’t care anymore, I got too abused by my brother and now his little girls are watching their mother get abused. I am tired of keeping the abuse and his life long game a secret. Not everything needs to come out but I won’t hide it after he had done horrible smear campaigns about me all my life.I don’t need to get into it except the truth. Plain and simple. No details are needed just what is.
Please consider keeping lines of communication open with your sister in law. if she is being abused at home she may need your help in the future and you are the only one who knows what she is going through. I know this dynamic well as I am the Scapegoat but because I have it figured out now and don't need my Narc dad, he is a bit more wary of me and tries to lovebomb me now. He now abuses my mum terribly as she is now the scapegoat. The only reason I stick around is to support my mum, to show her love and so she knows I see it and get it. I also can be there to help her if she ever wants to leave but it will have to be her choice. I know that this gives my mum hope. Right now your sister in law has no hope. You can escape your brother but she can't because of trauma bonds and the children. She may feel depressed and suicidal at times as my mum has been. Please consider keeping communication open with her. It may be her lifeline.
@@lastthingsministry I understand what you are saying. IF anything she has my mother and father's full support. They treat her better than me so I am not so worried for her. If anything, I am more so the dark thoughts b/c of the bullying. I know you don't know the full story. I feel for my sister in law a lot, actually too much and the thing is she uses me to ask me things where even my mom's BFF, who reminds me of my Nana & gets deep trauma informed therapy also said some things my SIL has done to me was NOT right at all..meanwhile I am sitting on the couch in therapy talking about the situations I have been put in. There is only so much I can give where my SIL will actually defend my brother being abusive to me and lying and telling my mother things and I get harmed..she doesn't care. She also finally got her father involved after 8 years of pulling my mother in which would do NOTHING..my mom again continued to abandon ME when 3 other professionals TOLD HER, ' you need to work on your relationship with your daughter & BE there for her!'. Again, you didn't know this. My SIL also has her sister facetime her everyday..and a brother who is REALLY truly there and has always been encouraging and supportive of her (from anything she wanted to do or achieve or had issues with). Again, you didn't know this. You also don't know that I have reached out..even in writing emails and saying I don't expect a reply but I am thinking of you and the girls and pray. Honestly, I DO get your good intentions, you just didn't know all of this..and well I have to save me. All my life I put me on the side or was told to put myself on the side..when I need to put my mask on first..and for the first time in my life, I am really committed to it. I hope that I now gave you more details, that you can actually see my efforts and how if I continue as you wish, it could harm me. I know you did mean well and I also know you didn't know all & why you would say what you are saying. I do yet self-preservation is what I need to do right now. 🙏
My advice, don't make the mistake I made and make friends with someone who was already your siblings friend. Shared friends do not work. They will already have heard and bought all the lies that you have an ideal family and will see you as the strange one when you don't agree with the lies. You can get gaslighted and retraumatised with such people and depending on how toxic they themselves are, they can become flying monkeys and abuse you by proxy. I shall repeat, do not share friends with your siblings or narcissistic family in general. If you have to, even cultivate a secret life of trusted friends that your family has no access to at all. You need friends who are in your corner, have your back and believe you. If you give your narc family access to your friends they will try to smear and undermine you to them. If you have your own life away from the family then at least you won't lose everything once the family turns on you.
You are right that it is both abnormal yet increasingly common. The breakdown and fragmentation of family is both abnormal yet increasingly common. No we shouldn't normalise it or think it a good thing as it isn't. Most people in the comments seek reconciliation over and over and they leave or back off eventually as the pain is devastating. The only way you can reconcile with these people is to agree to a lie that is so heinous and evil that it would be an act of self immolation to agree to it. It would be the ultimate self sabotage and not a worthy sacrifice. It doesn't please God at all as it is evil. It isn't the sort of sacrifice that He will sign off on. These families are horrendous cults built around a repugnant false idol, the narcissist. By claiming them as God you are literally putting Satan on the throne. These people are satanic and hate joy, peace and love. By talking about crime and helping victims, we are not normalising crime but addressing that it is major problem right now. Good enough parenting should be the norm and the standard. I would go one further and say that a family should be under God to really live a life of love, that is my belief.
It is such a relief to have sibling estrangement brought out in the open so that we don't feel so alone.
Thank you Fern and Ali-John!
I''m crying listening to this because I just don't see a way to talk about it. I tried at first and it was so embarrassing to see the looks on their faces. I feel so ashamed even though I was the one who was bullied, gaslighted, scapegoated and cheated. What is for me a terrible, painful tragedy and hole in my heart to others can just be juicy gossip to pass along. Mutual friends and relatives all sided with my sisters without even hearing my side. Now, I don't trust people to really understand and I really don't want anyone else to know because it tarnishes my family name and they may assume I'm to blame.
I'm sorry to hear this but I understand. What you describe is mobbing or group bullying. Cowards always seek groups to belong to no matter how evil the group. They need to belong as they are fearful. It is why Hitler was so popular. It's the same evil behaviour. Some people love to be in thrall of a tyrant. You have to realise that people aren't inherently good at all. A lot of people are drawn to evil and the darkness.
There are people out there that aren't like this. Look at the other comments, you are not alone. There is more of us that have been through this than you think. I became a Christian in part because of this evil family dynamic that almost destroyed me but I am healing now as I have a close relationship with God.
Please try to cultivate a life away from your family. When you meet other people who you do like you only need to say 'we don't get on' and move on. Most people now understand that there can be rifts in families. If a person acts really weird and guilts you about your family then that person is very likely to be disordered themselves and will likely try to abuse you in the future. Anyone who victim blames is a cowardly abuser, period.
I hope you find peace and healing and find your own family who cares for you.
Also a huge rule is NEVER have mutual friends. They will always side with the narcissists. Why? Because you are just acting normal whilethe Narc will lovebomb the socks off them. A normal relationship pales in comparison to the grandiose, golden,all lights flashing,circus of the Narcs lovebombing manipulation. It is like a little plain hut next door to the circus on carnival night. The little hut doesn't stand a chance.
Move your little hut away from the circus that overwhelms you.
The only chance you have of friendship is having your own friends that the Narc doesn't even know about. Keep secrets from the Narc. I repeat, keep secrets from the Narc. Oversharing with people who mean you harm is codependency and enmeshment. They do not deserve your trust. Trust must be earned. Please take very good care of yourself.
@@lastthingsministry Thank you for sharing your insight and caring thoughts. I am going to remember the phrase, " We just don't get on."
@@lastthingsministry "Outside" people who don't get it, think the comparison with Hitler is just an exaggerated joke. It sure ain't a joke, albeit not involving deaths, our "narcs" pull us in their web and get us to feel that they are somehow right or that we can't find a viable way to get out of that sticky web. No offense to beautiful spiders intended.
4:58 this is a really good point. We tend to either isolate ourselves or overshare. When raised in a cluster B family we have been raised without boundaries so we tend to overshare and overexplain to others. People can pick up the neediness in ourselves needing to be heard. A compassionate and mature person can see this as a vulnerability and wish to protect us and go carefully, a toxic person will see it and expolit it. If someone doesnt respect your feelings or reasons for family distance then they will likely disrespect you in other aspects. This people are not good for you. If they dont understand then move on. If they describe their own family as being perfect then run as they are probably liars.
Thank you for your work!
So so good to hear this conversation- thank you so much ❤
I don’t care anymore, I got too abused by my brother and now his little girls are watching their mother get abused. I am tired of keeping the abuse and his life long game a secret. Not everything needs to come out but I won’t hide it after he had done horrible smear campaigns about me all my life.I don’t need to get into it except the truth. Plain and simple. No details are needed just what is.
Please consider keeping lines of communication open with your sister in law. if she is being abused at home she may need your help in the future and you are the only one who knows what she is going through. I know this dynamic well as I am the Scapegoat but because I have it figured out now and don't need my Narc dad, he is a bit more wary of me and tries to lovebomb me now. He now abuses my mum terribly as she is now the scapegoat. The only reason I stick around is to support my mum, to show her love and so she knows I see it and get it. I also can be there to help her if she ever wants to leave but it will have to be her choice. I know that this gives my mum hope. Right now your sister in law has no hope. You can escape your brother but she can't because of trauma bonds and the children. She may feel depressed and suicidal at times as my mum has been. Please consider keeping communication open with her. It may be her lifeline.
@@lastthingsministry I understand what you are saying. IF anything she has my mother and father's full support. They treat her better than me so I am not so worried for her. If anything, I am more so the dark thoughts b/c of the bullying. I know you don't know the full story. I feel for my sister in law a lot, actually too much and the thing is she uses me to ask me things where even my mom's BFF, who reminds me of my Nana & gets deep trauma informed therapy also said some things my SIL has done to me was NOT right at all..meanwhile I am sitting on the couch in therapy talking about the situations I have been put in. There is only so much I can give where my SIL will actually defend my brother being abusive to me and lying and telling my mother things and I get harmed..she doesn't care. She also finally got her father involved after 8 years of pulling my mother in which would do NOTHING..my mom again continued to abandon ME when 3 other professionals TOLD HER, ' you need to work on your relationship with your daughter & BE there for her!'. Again, you didn't know this. My SIL also has her sister facetime her everyday..and a brother who is REALLY truly there and has always been encouraging and supportive of her (from anything she wanted to do or achieve or had issues with). Again, you didn't know this.
You also don't know that I have reached out..even in writing emails and saying I don't expect a reply but I am thinking of you and the girls and pray.
Honestly, I DO get your good intentions, you just didn't know all of this..and well I have to save me. All my life I put me on the side or was told to put myself on the side..when I need to put my mask on first..and for the first time in my life, I am really committed to it.
I hope that I now gave you more details, that you can actually see my efforts and how if I continue as you wish, it could harm me. I know you did mean well and I also know you didn't know all & why you would say what you are saying. I do yet self-preservation is what I need to do right now.
🙏
My advice, don't make the mistake I made and make friends with someone who was already your siblings friend. Shared friends do not work. They will already have heard and bought all the lies that you have an ideal family and will see you as the strange one when you don't agree with the lies. You can get gaslighted and retraumatised with such people and depending on how toxic they themselves are, they can become flying monkeys and abuse you by proxy. I shall repeat, do not share friends with your siblings or narcissistic family in general. If you have to, even cultivate a secret life of trusted friends that your family has no access to at all. You need friends who are in your corner, have your back and believe you. If you give your narc family access to your friends they will try to smear and undermine you to them. If you have your own life away from the family then at least you won't lose everything once the family turns on you.
I don't think estrangement should be normalized . It is reasonably common, but it is not normal.
You are right that it is both abnormal yet increasingly common. The breakdown and fragmentation of family is both abnormal yet increasingly common. No we shouldn't normalise it or think it a good thing as it isn't. Most people in the comments seek reconciliation over and over and they leave or back off eventually as the pain is devastating. The only way you can reconcile with these people is to agree to a lie that is so heinous and evil that it would be an act of self immolation to agree to it. It would be the ultimate self sabotage and not a worthy sacrifice. It doesn't please God at all as it is evil. It isn't the sort of sacrifice that He will sign off on. These families are horrendous cults built around a repugnant false idol, the narcissist. By claiming them as God you are literally putting Satan on the throne. These people are satanic and hate joy, peace and love. By talking about crime and helping victims, we are not normalising crime but addressing that it is major problem right now. Good enough parenting should be the norm and the standard. I would go one further and say that a family should be under God to really live a life of love, that is my belief.
Not everyone wants reconciliation EVER.