Why the Confederate Flag is Racist
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- In this video, we will look at the historical reasons why the Confederate Flag is racist. We’ll also explore the sociological and ethical problems associated with public displays of the Confederate Battle Flag.
Learn More at Curious Refuge: curiousrefuge.com/blog/confed...
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I’m not gonna lie. This guy is a good debater. Anyone in the comments that disagreed with him, lost the argument with him. Respect!!!
@@QUADCITYCOPENCOUNTER Please demonstrate how the history of these flags are incorrect.
@@QUADCITYCOPENCOUNTER So, let me get this straight; you made an assertion about how he is wrong and knows nothing about flags, yet when I ask you to demonstrate the accuracy of your assertion and fulfill your burden of proof, you vaguely tell me to learn and get educated about the subject. If you cannot back up your statement with specific evidence, instead of "go learn about flags and there(their) history", it can be dismissed without evidence.
@@QUADCITYCOPENCOUNTER You made a positive assertion, thus adopting a burden of proof. If you don't want to be expected to demonstrate what you are saying is accurate, you should not make assertions.
"I never said that all the thing(s) were wrong just that the video is inaccurate..."
Really? You said he "knows nothing about flags". That would mean that everything he said was wrong.
"...but I'm not going to teach you just so you thank(think?) it's proof..."
You have not even demonstrated one thing that he is incorrect about. Mature people back up their assertions with evidence. It's ironic how you are calling others uneducated. If you cannot grasp the basic concept of living up to your own assertions, I pity you. Talk is cheap.
@@nonprogrediestregredi1711 right on!
Typical leftist behavior…: “debate” if you disagree, you lost the argument and are a rassisss bigot….
Flags aren't racist. People who use it for racist purposes are.
That doesn't make it a racist symbol, because it existed as a confederate battle flag designed during the midst of the American civil war, and became part of the 2nd national flag of the confederacy long before it was hijacked by right wing groups. British Right wing fascist groups have also adopted the union jack and the cross of st. George, does that make the union Jack and Cross of st George racist?? By the logic of this video................YES. It should be remembered also that the black slave trade in the united Kingdom was only banned in 1833.
So standing for a nation that viewed people of a certain skin color as property wasn’t racist?
@@curiousrefuge The question here is should the southern cross be considered as a racist symbol. The answer is no. No more than the Union Jack of Britain or the red cross of St. George in England. where the African slave trade persisted until 1833. The fact that racist white supremacists hijacked a flag that soldiers died for during the civil war doesn't make it a symbol of racism. In the same way right wing groups use the flag of st. George as a banner, doesn't make it a racist symbol.
@Rafaella Garibaldi but the inherent difference is the confederacy was founded and persisted on fighting for the notion that black people are property (see the vid) vs the Union Jack which stands for a nation with a horrible past, but now has legal structures in place to reduce hate crimes and slavery. The founding of the entire nation the Confederate Flag stands for was because they wanted to overtly uphold a moral evil.
What you’re talking about with the Union Jack is Nationalism and people do the same with the US flag. While still racist, Nationalism takes a subset of a population who says they are more ‘committed’ to the nations cause by isolating and causing fear typically in minority groups that they view as ‘spoiling’ their view of an idealized nation.
The Confederate Flag though always overtly stood for oppression and was further reinforced by hate groups revitalizing what the flag stood for thought the years.
So yes, if a flag was founded on overtly racist ideas, used by racist groups, and is viewed by a plurality of society as racist including 9 of the 11 original succeeding states. It is racist. Individuals and communal subsets can have different interpretations of meaning but at the societal level when you look at history, ethics, and sociological data it has always stood as a rallying symbol for those who wish to oppress and harm black Americans.
So to go back to your question, yes, it makes the symbol racist.
note you say it was 'adopted' for white supremacy. Whether or not the flag is 'racist' is entirely dependent on the context and intent with which it's used.
What other uses are there other than that? Why would anyone show that flag proudly on their porch?
@@orfeoassiti6669 any historical recreation, be it for a show, event or ceremony or just a historian or collector. POint is, you can't assume that someone displaying that is racist. YOu HAVE to figure out the context or intent.
This video made some good points. However, if you are not from the south, you honestly don't get it. Southerners DO use this flag simply as a symbol of southern pride. I am from the south and grew up around a lot of very decent and good people that flew that flag every day.
Ah, I hate to tell you that there were slave states that fought with the North to keep the union whole. Had the South not seceded, slavery would have continued until people realized slavery was evil and blacks were not sub-human.
It's clear though that the vast majority of people who fly the flag are not racists, at worst they are historically ignorant. If you look at it from only a historical perspective, then it is a symbol of racism, and I doubt many would disagree with the idea that it has been used in racist events.
Overall I do think that this could have been fleshed out more, for example, you used "The Birth Of A Nation" as an example of it being utilized in racist media but never discussed its usage in nonracist media, such as the duke of Haggard's series. You never once talked about its usage throughout Country music and the many artists who use the flag from both the past and even today. You do not spend much time talking about the unique Southern American culture that it is connected to, and you never really played devil's advocate with yourself throughout the video.
(People like Johnny Horton, Hank Williams Jr, Ryan Upchurch, and Luke Combs are just a few examples of both past music artists and current ones who have flown this flag in the name of Southern Pride.)
As shown in the video, it was flown in many instances throughout past and recent American military conflicts, as a show of southern American pride and battle capability. But you only seem to focus on the racist aspect of it, (Martin Luther King Jr's death for example.) This upsets me because I know for a fact both from personal experience and from clear evidence of many black-skinned people who fly the Rebel flag, that it's clear that it's not all about racism, and the way you presented it made it seem like it solely was. This is unfair to those who were not racist but still flew that flag out of respect for their ancestors and the Southern spirit and culture, who died for America. A nation we inherit, because of their sacrifices.
My biggest problem with this narrative is that it is a common perspective for outsiders who don't fully understand the Southern American culture, and it is utilized constantly to depict us as nothing more than a bunch of Ignorant, Racist, Psychopaths. This is not true, and while those morons do exist, they do not represent the vast majority of those who fly the Rebel flag. We do recognize the historical sin of slavery, we just want people to understand that it was not what the vast majority of us support, and it's not why we fly it.
That is why many people are also flying Rebel flags that say "Heritage Not Hate" something that you also do not mention in your video.
The intentions and reasons people fly this flag are clearly not for racist reasons, and like you said it is complex, with a lot of nuances. But I do not feel like our side was represented well at all throughout this well-educated video.
Its a shame no one had anything as interesting to say back. I was thinking the same thing because growing up over here in South Texas yeah they're are racist Folk but there far outnumbered by the many the fly that battle flag
The flag is not a hate flag or a racist flag, the only reason why it became that is the people who are racist and hateful to carry it there are many people who are southern-born that are proud of that flag but they are 100% not racist or hateful people
Still, that flag was fought for because the south at the time wanted to continue with slavery. The very least those people can do (who like the confederate flag) is to redesign it in a way that keeps it’s symbolism but doesn’t remind people of a very different southern us.
@@historysyourbestfriend5500 yes and no I believe it should be left alone just like so many other things of our past to be lessons learned and taught, most people don't know the true ugly side are the American slavery trade, for the history of how far back slavery goes for all races of mankind and womankind, I'm proud of the Robert e leave flag the way it is you agree with you on some things
@@michaelmyers3892 I know there are those who hold that flag with a different meaning and demeanor, but they are extremely muddied out by people today who are racist, extremist, and overall lunatics. And it sucks because I do have sympathy for those who take pride in their southern roots (excluding slavery and the such) but as long as their antithesis exists, my eyes have a hard time seeing past those people that use the confederate flag to express their hate.
They said that you would say that.
You can’t represent half of something.
@SkyBug Productions My question is, why are people so quick to defend a flag that has oppressed and threatened African Americans for hundreds of years, while they suffered, bled and died. For this shit to happen? I think that men women and children being shackled and bred for work in scorching fields for hundreds of years outweighs some white people's attempt at having "culture and heritage." I mean, Nazis bled for THEIR flag. Do you want their flag flying? No? No because of the ideology they supported? Same here. Although the secession of the southern states is commonly seen as an outcome of states lacking a choice, the reason that Southern states wanted that choice is because of slavery. I'm probably talking to a wall if the person reading this has been brainwashed, but I'll be damned if don't stand up to people advocating for oppression and the shackling and breeding of other human beings for cheap labor.
You mean the American flag?
Slavery under the American flag:
1776- 1865.
Slavery under the Confederate flag:
1861- 1865.
Yeah. I would hate to fly a flag that was so racist.
@@firestream93 the Jim Crow era was also under the American flag… but the CSA flag is “rAcISt”… these people are clueless.
@@csarebel8657 Most of them think how the media tells them to.
Confederate statues and flags have to come down...because they're "racist."
If that's the case, a lot more than Confederate statues should be taken down.
@@csarebel8657 Get 'em, brother!
The civil war was about state power, autonomy and taxation. Prior to the war White men that owned property and paid taxes were allowed to vote. As a way to give northern "industrial" states more power all white men were given the right to vote, the population of the north was extremely dense and predominately white. The south was "agricultural and scarcely populated and actually had a larger Black population than white. The Southern states were very productive and the Northern wanted to leverage there new voting power to increase the taxation and reduce the autonomy of the southern states.
Slavery was only brought into the equation at the very end of the war and against the advice of nearly every northern politician.
5 years after the war,1870, as a token gesture and as a way to further de-power the south black men were given the vote...but only if they owned property and paid tax. and in many of the northern states black men lost the right to vote entirely.
Women of any color did not get to vote for another 50 years in 1920.....
Only ignorant people hoping to perpetuate racism and hate would continue to beat this same ole drum that is portrayed in this extremely skewed perspective of history. I encourage everyone to look into all of the facts not just the ones that are presented by any one perspective.
Also a flag or any object can and will be adopted by a wide variety of users, some my be deplorable but most are of sound genuine admiration or heritage.
Don't hate if you can't relate.
This doesn't disprove anything from the video though. Slavery may not have been a moral consideration, but it was certainly a political and militaristic one. Few who know the subject well would say the Union freed the slaves out of the goodness of their hearts, but it was still something the South felt was worth their entire identity moreso than being American was.
Watch Checkmate Lincolnites! it's a great series on a RUclips channel that completely blows any Lost Cause nonsense like yours out of the water.... including taxation. BTW, when you're talking about taxation, you're talking about tariffs only. Income, property and sales taxes didn't exist. Also 70% of those tariffs came through the port of new york. The next largest came from the port of boston and new orleans was the next... so taxes were nearly nothing in secession. If you'll argue the moral tariff passing, guess what, it wasn't passed through Congress until AFTER southern states started seceding. Had they not seceded, there's no way it would have passed.
The original flag of CSA was almost a mirror image of the flag that was used in the American revolution that symbolized the fight for freedom and independence against tyrannical rule . Slavery although morally wrong does not negate the fact these Southern States had the Constitutional right to secede from an unjust union .
The Supreme Court disagreed, but even if they did have the right to secede, it doesn’t negate the fact that a desire to prolong the enslavement of people was at the root of that secession. We can’t say ‘something is morally wrong’ but we technically had the legal right to do it. That is inhumane and goes back to the question. Just because I have the right to do something does it make it right.
@@curiousrefuge At the time of the Civil War it was not illegal as the ruling by Supreme Court came later in 1869 (after the war) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional..History is written by the victors this is the problem of recorded history.I believe that the tenth amendment to the constitution gave States the right to secede. The southern states were taxed unjustly in the form of various tariffs, and the majority of the proceeds were estimated at 82% given to the North.
@@johnthompson3664 thanks for the reply and for sharing your views. While I do believe it is possible to interpret the 10th amendment as giving the ability for states to leave for virtually any reason they see (before the Supreme Court ruled otherwise). I think the logic in leaving was ultimately flawed and hiding the true reason for secession. The Morill Tax bill would heighten tariffs on foreign exports, yes, but that was because it was designed to push exports to the north to strengthen the nations economy as a whole. In short, there would have been very little economic loss had the south exported goods to the north. Together, both the north and the south would grow their economy and fund the growing nation through their foreign exports in a pre-income tax world. If the south wanted to skip sending goods to the north it would severely limit the potential growth of the economy as a whole. I don’t think that 82% number is accurate at all due to the fact that the Morrill tax bill wasn’t in place before the seceded, but I don’t doubt that the south would have paid more than the north once the taxes actually started to get collected with the bill. But again, when you look at first hand newspaper accounts, taxes were secondary to defending slavery. Fighting for the right to defend your economic way of life was at the center of secession and at its core was having slaves do the work to uphold if.
@@curiousrefuge Thank you also for your learned opinion. Although I contend that figure of 82% is probably close to being accurate what is left out of this discussion is the precursor to the Morrill tariff and that is the tariff of abominations in 1828 followed by Andrew Jackson's great compromise in 1833. In both of these tariffs, the Southern States were taxed unjustly on exports with also a higher import tax on European goods designed for the South to buy products exclusively from the Northern States.
@@curiousrefuge The flag represents more than that, though.
The CSA was a slave supporting country for only 4 years, compared to the USA's 80+ years. The southern states succeeded before the "civil" war started, Lincoln choose to start the war so he is responsible for all of the deaths on both sides. Winning the war doesn't change that.
Slavery only became an issue because of the North. The north imported the slaves before the US was founded and after the population grew to the point when slavery was no longer needed is when the North decided to abolish it.
Your video reminds me of a history classroom presentation.
I think I'll share this link with some media buddies.
I have never heard a reasonable explanation why the northern states allegedly fought a civil war to end slavery in the southern states while allowing slavery to continue unimpeded in Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky and in the territories. That seems supremely hypocritical to me.
Not completely the war was not about slavery technically it was about states right it just the states wanted slavery when the south seceded from the election of Lincoln and Lincoln new that if he said he wanted to end slavery then he would lose the border states so towards then end I forget exactly what it is called but basically it banned slavery in rebellion states then everyone in the north agreed slavery has got to go sooo yes but no
@@landenmccolley853 Lincoln agonized for over a year deciding if he should issue an emancipation proclamation outlawing slavery in the US. Finally he came out with a watered down executive order outlawing slavery ONLY in the Confederate states. Today we are expected to swallow the revisionist absurdity that northerners were willing to fight and die to end slavery in the south, while insisting that slavery remain legal in the north.
Hold on now. The South declared war, not the other way around 😂
@@MrGibsonguy335 *”The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic. This hostile policy of our confederates has been pursued with every circumstance of aggravation which could arouse the passions and excite the hatred of our people, and has placed the two sections of the Union for many years past in the condition of virtual civil war. Our people, still attached to the Union from habit and national traditions, and averse to change, hoped that time, reason, and argument would bring, if not redress, at least exemption from further insults, injuries, and dangers. Recent events have fully dissipated all such hopes and demonstrated the necessity of separation.*
*Our Northern confederates, after a full and calm hearing of all the facts, after a fair warning of our purpose not to submit to the rule of the authors of all these wrongs and injuries, have by a large majority committed the Government of the United States into their hands. The people of Georgia, after an equally full and fair and deliberate hearing of the case, have declared with equal firmness that they shall not rule over them. A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.*
*While the subordination and the political and social inequality of the African race was fully conceded by all, it was plainly apparent that slavery would soon disappear from what are now the non-slave-holding States of the original thirteen. The opposition to slavery was then, as now, general in those States and the Constitution was made with direct reference to that fact. But a distinct abolition party was not formed in the United States for more than half a century after the Government went into operation. The main reason was that the North, even if united, could not control both branches of the Legislature during any portion of that time. Therefore such an organization must have resulted either in utter failure or in the total overthrow of the Government. The material prosperity of the North was greatly dependent on the Federal Government; that of the South not at all. In the first years of the Republic the navigating, commercial, and manufacturing interests of the North began to seek profit and aggrandizement at the expense of the agricultural interests. Even the owners of fishing smacks sought and obtained bounties for pursuing their own business (which yet continue), and $500,000 is now paid them annually out of the Treasury. The navigating interests begged for protection against foreign shipbuilders and against competition in the coasting trade.“*
@@numeitor7075 Changing the subject does not at all address the point. And Union troops DID illegally occupy Fort Sumter.
My opinion of the Battle Flag is it's just that a battle flag and really should have stayed that way. Note, I do not support anything to do with slavery and view anyone with American citizenship as American no matter race because the color of one's skin shouldn't really matter compared to their character.
In my opinion you are this that and a third
What about the nazi flag?
@@TheMCNemesisOnAmazonMusic your opinion is irrelevant to his harmless view of history
I agree, it’s factually been the battle flag for the CS and it always has. I think we should take issue with the flag that was used to represent the confederacy itself, the Stars and Bars. People use the battle flag to honor their veteran family members, not the Stars and Bars (what represented the confederacy).
I have one question why is the kreigsmarine flag just a battleflag then,
I cannot believe that this is a point of debate in the 21st century. Insanity.
I have to agree with the pinned comment, you are an excellent debater with very thorough and mature responses - I have been binge watching videos similar to this but this is the first one I've seen from your channel and the one that left me most impressed, I like that you are also a Christian, with that being said how could I not subscribe it's definitely earned🤝
Thank you so much for your kind words. I really hope we can make more videos like this soon. I really deeply care for folks in the South (my home) and desire to fight the lies we’ve been told our entire lives through data and history to create a more loving world. Cheers!
This is a fantastic, well-researched, and brilliantly worded video. Thank you for presenting facts and great concepts in this manner.
First you say it wouldn't have stood for racism if not for 2 different political groups, but then say it always stood for racism.. A bit confused about that part.
It always stood as a rallying symbol for those who wish to harm black Americans, but if it hadn’t been adopted by racist ideologies in the 20s and 50s, it would have been relegated to history museums and not a modern symbol of a lack of hospitality towards minorities. Hope that clears things up. Cheers!
I find hardly any changes and I am old
As a southern person, who is independently educated, I fly a battle flag in opposition to overbearing central government. Each state should govern themselves and support the central government to the aspects of interstate government and defense of the national borders. As far as those supporting the battle flag in opposition to others, you may have that right, however, one must think for oneself and not bend to other’s thinking. The BLM movement was a just cause but was used incorrectly by the leadership to their individual ends. The de-segregation of schools was viewed as another central government taking one’s way of life and abolishing it, same as the “civil war”. One must look at the times events happen three it’s eyes and not our own.
The American flag already symbolizes rebellion against oppressive government. The Confederacy fought to keep 4 million people enslaved... I can't think of anything much more tyrannical than that.
Thanks for writing in. But I do agree with @ben here.
While I appreciate (but don’t agree with) your views about the role of a national government. I do have some counter points to make:
1. We all have the right to opinions, but having an open mind and being willing to 'bend' your thoughts is how we find truth. To the best of my abilities I try to use evidence, historical documents, and data to inform and change my beliefs to have the most accurate and truthful version of historical accounts.
2. Desegregation may have been viewed by white individuals as central government overstepping, but to those oppressed it was central government coming in to guarantee equal rights. So, yes, the Civil War also became about the government stepping in to oppose the protection of oppression. And in a similar manor, white people during segregation opposed black flourishing through racist actions predicated on oppressive and false worldviews.
3. Even when viewed under the historical context of 1861, the south’s treatment of enslaved people was horrible. First hand accounts of the events are a primary reason why the abolitionist movement was popular enough to secure Lincoln the presidency in 1860.
Engaging, intriguing and well-researched. Nice job.
Let’s not forget when you say the confederacy killed 360,000 Americans, an equal or more amount of Americans died on the southern side. They may have fought for the south, but they’re still Americans as much as the north…
The southern confederates we’re not veterans of the United States military. They chose to murder US soldiers. So they were not included in that number.
I’m just happy to be here. Have a nice day. 😀
The research is there. Great job man. I felt it was very objective and down the middle. I didn't know Birth of a Nation could've inspired that much wrinkles in our society.
*CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG: A GREAT & COOL SYMBOL*
@0:10 It's also been present at picnics, barbecues, Nascar, Dukes of Hazzard, and peoples homes. It's also been used by blacks, Latinos, and Asians in America and it's also been used by foreigners across the entire world who are not native to the United States and who are not native to Dixie, as well. And thus, the Confederate battle flag is now even an international symbol! It's beloved throughout parts of the entire world! HELL YEAH!!
@9:05 These are OPINIONS, not facts. These are peoples opinions, dude, not freaking facts. The plurality of America are peoples own personal opinions, not facts. My opinion and a lot of other peoples opinions differ from theirs. My opinion and a lot of other peoples opinions is that the Confederate battle flag is not freaking racist and is not a freaking hate symbol. Those peoples opinions are NOT above mine or vice versa. And those peoples opinions are NOT above others who love, support, and fly the battle flag.
@9:49 Veterans of the United States military themselves have even flown and supported the Confederate battle flag. As well as being a Southern symbol, the battle flag is also an American symbol as well after all. So yeah, even United States soldiers love, respect, and support the battle flag, too.
In todays world, the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent the Confederacy because the Confederacy doesn't even exist anymore anyway and it doesn't represent slavery anymore as well because slavery doesn't even exist anymore (not in America anyway). And it never represented slavery or the Confederacy in the first place anyway. The Confederate battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate government and never flew over any state capitols, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups and so TECHNICALLY, the Confederate battle flag is NOT a flag/symbol of the Confederate States of America. Also, it never flew over any slave ships, as well. It was just used by the Confederate military to distinguish themselves from that of the Union military on the battlefield. Also, the KKK didn't even start using the Confederate battle flag until like the 1940s if I'm not mistaken. And the KKK have also carried and used the United States flag, too. And thus, the Confederate battle flag is not racist and is not a freaking hate symbol. Also, it's an inanimate object and inanimate objects can't be racist and can't hate. That's so STUPID to say that. It's so stupid to say that a flag can be racist and that it can hate because it can't do either of the two. And it doesn't represent slavery either. Enough with that crap. PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG IS RACIST AND IS A HATE SYMBOL. PLEASE LEAVE THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG ALONE. Leave the battle flag alone!
In the 21st Century, the Confederate battle flag represents 2 things: *Southern pride* & *rebelliousness.*
Support the Confederate battle flag! Keep the battle flag flying! Screw the haters and just keep the battle flag flying! SUPPORT THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG!! Thank you.
CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG, 1861-present.
@11:04 *IS IT RIGHT TO SYMBOLICALLY ISOLATE BLACK AMERICANS?* Some blacks have actually embraced the Confederate battle flag and support the hell out of it. Also, again, Latino, Asians, and foreigners throughout the world have embraced the battle flag, too.
*IS IT RIGHT TO ALIGN WITH A PRO-SLAVERY NATION?* Once again, the Confederacy doesn't even exist anymore and slavery doesn't exist anymore either. How the hell are they aligning with a pro-slavery nation when that nation no longer even exists anymore??
*IS IT RIGHT TO IGNORE THE PRESENT PAIN OF OTHERS?* YES. Yes, as long as I'm not disturbing the peace (disturbing them) or violating their Civil Rights. Yes, because I'm allowing them to live their lives, respecting their rights, and allowing them to fly whatever flag they want to fly and so they should in return respect my (and others) rights, leave me (and others) alone to fly the battle flag if I (and others) want to fly it, and also respectfully allow me (and others) to live my life as I want to live it.
And now I've got some questions for you and anybody else who agrees with you to answer! I've got some questions of my own, dude!
IS IT RIGHT FOR BLACK AMERICANS OR ANYONE ELSE TO BULLY, HARASS, & THREATEN PEOPLE WHO WEAR T-SHIRTS WITH THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG ON IT?
IS IT RIGHT FOR BLACK AMERICANS OR ANYONE ELSE TO BULLY, HARASS, & THREATEN PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTERS OF THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG?
IS IT RIGHT TO VIOLATE PEOPLES RIGHTS TO FLY AND SUPPORT THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG?
Thank you for sharing your insights. I am also from Texas. I’d like to share my thoughts on your response:
1. The Battle Flag is only ‘Great’ in the the sense of the scale of the impact it had in history around racist keystone events. Morally the flag is definitely the opposite of great as in good.
2. The Battle Flag is only ‘Cool’ if your community gives you social cachet for flying it. We strongly believe that such societies were impacted by Lost Cause ideologies to believe that support of a symbol of racism is ‘cool’. Hate symbols shouldn’t be in the same category as sun glasses.
3. 0:10 your point here is called a Fallacy of Division. A sub-section of a group can’t define what the greater group believes. Symbols are interpreted at the individual, communal, and societal level. Our video expresses that individual and communal interpretations of meaning should be understood after understanding the larger historical, sociological, and ethical roots of the symbol and how it was used at the societal level.
4. 9:05 These are opinions of people using the scientific method for a sociological study. This is why it was important that the survey was a larger sample size and very diverse. Undoubtedly, your opinion and people you know believe differently. But again, the study is designed to find the Base Rate of support for the flag as a whole at the societal level. Their opinions don’t trump your individual or communal-level interpretation of meaning, but at the macro level the findings from a carefully distributed study like this one would trump your beliefs about what society believes about the flag.
5. 9:49 Yes veterans have flown the battle flag, like you see in the video. Even American soldiers can still do racist things like flying a battle flag on Martin Luther King’s day of death. And their own interpretation of meaning is still formed by their upbringing, which like we say in the video, was strategically put into place by the UDC in the early 20th century.
6. You’re right, the confederacy doesn’t exist anymore. But the morals behind what it stood for do. In the same way the image at the 11:16 mark has a swastika. The third reich doesn’t exist anymore, but the morals behind what they stood for live on in society's interpretation of those meanings.
7. Yes, you’re right. The Confederacy never officially adopted the flag. It was only after the war with Birth of a Nation that racist groups began adopting the flag as a symbol for their anti-black ideals.
9. Inanimate objects can’t stand for anything by themselves. But human interpretation of meaning tell us what something stands for. And at the societal level, the Confederate Flag stands for racism.
10. 11:04 Again, just because a sub-section of a larger group embraces something. It doesn’t change societal views. This again, is the Fallacy of Division.
11. To fly a flag is to align with the morals that a flag stands for. That’s the whole point of a flag.
12. Having the 'right to ignore the present pain of others' only comes from a place of privilege of that symbol not hurting you. We completely disagree with your answer to that question. It isn't right ethically at the societal level, but you have the right to do it legally.
13. In response to your final sequence of questions, it is not right to bully, harass, or threaten people. The Confederacy and Hate Groups do that, it is hypocritical (but understandable) to want to do it back. But we disagree with that approach.
14. Finally, to your final question, understanding the historical, sociological, and ethical perspectives of flying the flag isn’t infringing on your right to fly it. You have the freedom to do just about anything you want. But that doesn't mean that society won't view it as racist. Especially if there is a ton of evidence supporting that fact that people used the flag to rally behind racist ideals.
Thank you for raising your objections to the video. Obviously we disagree with most of your points, but helpful discourse is important.
Is it right to lie on black people and put them in jail after a second up from the police I am confused
A lot of hate comments that I see going towards this battle flag shows that people are blinded by hypocrisy.
They say there against hate but they don't realize they're using it themselves.
Same way people who fly the flag demonize BLM….
Basically how America was conceived right?
Hate is a good thing if you're hating a bad thing. For example, I hate racist people, such as yourself.
Not going to jump into any kind of debate here but I'd recommend reading Shelby Foote's books on the Civil War. He gives a accurate perspective of the causes, as well as what each side fought for and thier perspective based on eye witnesses that were there at the time.
11:05 Black Southerners waving CSA flags is fine, Pan-African and Raised fist flags too
11:09 If you can wave the American flag without aligning with a pro-genocide nation, then you can wave CSA flags without aligning with a pro-slavery nation
11:14 Like with the USSR flag? Absolutely, fly whatever flag you like, just don't initiate violence
The difference is the US evolved beyond accepting enslavement. The Confederacy never did. The US was very much pro-genocide in its past, but has legally bound itself to not do that again through legislation like the Geneva Convention. The Confederacy was founded due to a resistance to ethical responsibility rebranded as states rights years later.
@@curiousrefuge Enough, dude. Enough with your terrible, lame answers. You want to talk about freaking evolution, huh? By your own ridiculous logic, the use of the Confederate battle flag has also evolved. The use of the battle flag has changed too, dude. You just don't want to accept the change. You just don't want to accept the change is all. You just want to keep hating on it is all. Also, the stupid NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Crazy People) doesn't want to accept the change, as well. They're a bunch of crazy, freaking idiots who should be totally ignored and protested against. The NAACP totally sucks! The use of the battle flag over several decades now has been mostly positive overall and because of this, it has changed, too. By your own crazy logic, the battle flag has changed, too. So enough, dude. Like I had said before: Nascar, "Dukes Of Hazzard," picnics, barbecues, on people's houses, people's trucks/cars, use by foreigners (its a worldwide symbol now), blacks, Latinos, and Asians.
@@curiousrefuge ok the meaning the flag is bad but you can't deny it looks good
@@curiousrefuge the US evolved? Many natives think different. So do the people from Korea, Vietnam, Irak, Afghanistan etc.
@@Emperormonkeman slavery was not worse then Hitler wth
If you want to remove the symbol of the south, you can't simply get rid of it, you must come up with a replacement.
State Flags, Teams, Don’t Tread On Me, etc. There are tons of symbols that are used and can be used, the problem is with the symbol that stood for enslaving people based on the color of their skin.
@@curiousrefuge Don't you address this in your video? The fact that the Virginia battle flag was not the flag of the conferederacy?
The French flag stood for murdering millions of French people via decapitation. It was literally one of the few flags of the "revolution". Should the French change their flag?
The point is, symbols change over time. The meaning of symbols changes over time. If you disagree, then how can you view the Nazi flag as bad? After all, the swastika is a symbol of peace for some sects of Buddhism and Hinduism.
But of course you understand that. You just dislike the culture of the south in general. I can't understand why, but some people literally are just bigoted against us. Maybe it's the accent, maybe it's the fact that we vote differently than you do, whatever it is you don't seem to be a big fan of us.
You mentioned the Gadsden flag, the don't tread on me flag, but every time that gets flown it's called "racist" for some "unknown" reason (see: the above paragraphs). Not to mention the fact that while it may correlate with our generally libertarian ideals, there is no connection with that flag and the South. There's a connection to the United States in general, specifically more Northern states like Pennsylvania and Massachusetts. Which sports team is able to unify the south? The buccaneers? The Houston texans? The Dallas cowboys? The saints? No, these are all symbols specific to a city. No Floridian would get behind a Louisiana symbol, no Louisiana would get behind a Texas symbol.
No matter what symbol we choose as our regional identity, it will be hated and viewed as being "on the wrong side of History". For God's sake, we could have a white flag with Jeff foxworthy's face on it, and it would be called racist because "the white part of the flag would support white supremacy" or some shit.
No thank you. If you can look past the fact that this was a Democrat party symbol, you can look past the fact that it was originally used for pro-slavery forces, specifically within Virginia.
@@curiousrefuge Another thing to be brought up, are you okay with the Colin Kaepernick kneeling? You shouldn't be, it's a sign of disrespect to the US flag, to kneel instead of standing. Oh, let me take a wild guess, you don't mind because "that's not what that act meant to them"? Or "that's not what they meant"? If so, then you already understand the fact that symbols can mean different things to different people, based on the intention of the person utilizing said symbol.
Assuming you were okay with the kneeling, why the double standard? Why is it okay for some people to use an anti American, race based symbol, but it's not okay for others to use a historical, regional symbol?
To address your points:
1. Supposing that a southern only symbol is necessary to begin with, The south can absolutely create a symbol that doesn’t stem from enslaving, segregating, or murdering people. There are plenty of graphic designers down here that could definitely create one. Or maybe just a flag that says southern pride? I’ve seen plenty of those.
2. The French flag has legislatively outlawed murderous and enslaving actions, the confederacy never did. They were founded on slavery support and never evolved beyond it. That’s the difference.
3. I’m a southerner, born and raised. I love being from the south but value caring for others.
4. Symbols absolutely do change over time and on a sociological level the confederate flag does stand for racism. Context determines meaning. The Buddhist swastica symbol would 100% be perceived as racist in a western post WW2 world unless it was in the context of a traditional Buddhist environment, which isn’t the case when it is flown at a modern rallies.
4. The political parties in the us changed platforms in 1964. So while republicans were 100% the progressive party in 1860 and even 1952, the parties switched platforms and democrats are now the progressive party. So if you see any action taken politically before 1964 you should assume a democratic move would be reminiscent of modern republicans and vice versa.
5. Flag kneeling is outside the context of this video and I simply haven’t done enough research to create an informed opinion yet.
Excellent video. I know more now than I did then. Growing up in the early 70s I simply thought it meant your were a rebel (probably without a cause). That's what they taught in school--they were called rebels. Many kids thought that. I was born in PA so automatically I was considered a "yankee". My family arrived long after the civil war and were very, very poor. They were share croppers and picked cotton. What I'm most of ashamed of is that we came from England. Who did more to create a unequal society all over the world in their colonies. Even changing some of the suggested laws in the american colonies (King George) that would have outlawed slavery. Thomas Sowell is an excellent reference on the history of racism and slavery.
Thank you for bringing up the British involvement in the slave trade. They like to snear at Americans for slavery when they set the damn system up. Then when they outlawed it in their colonies they made damn sure they still traded with the American south. Who in fact supplied most of the cotton for the early industrial revolution. This is what made the demand for cotton explode
im black i don’t see nothing wrong with the flag it’s history
Plus its a battle flag not a csa retautatiinal flag
Still waiting for a actual reason.
As a black person, it is heritage to me aswell.
The video has 12 minutes of reasons. You could have picked any of them to disagree with if you had an actual reason.
@@Ben00000 Look up the original flag.
@@Ravens_4life You must not have a lot of confidence in what you're about to say if you can only stick to rehearsed lines, rather than 12 minutes' worth of arguments a real person actually made.
@@Ben00000 I don't think you realize that their are even more videos that completely debunk that.
@@Ravens_4life I don't doubt your ability to find videos that agree with you, I just doubt your ability to evaluate information based on its factual content rather than how it makes you feel. Hence trying to start a comfortable argument you think you already know all the responses to, because the title of the video goes against your bias, despite not having watched a minute of the video.
Here's a very good question for you I'm black but I was born in Richmond Virginia so should I fly the Confederate flag? ( By the way the Confederate flag isn't about racism it's about southern heritage far fewer southerners would fly the flag if it was about racism)
If you believe that there are some little green men that have some very nice real estate on Mars at a great price.
Do you deny the history behind the confederate flag? I promise you that our ancestors wouldn't be too happy about that.
You really don't know what you're forefathers went through. And that's sad. Just remember burning 🔥 crosses and hoods and sheets and your glorious flag in the mist of your heritage
Lost cause propaganda was proven to be a myth already. But I guess you can say it's heritage since Slavery was a huge part of the heritage. I think it's funny how the flag ended up being the battle flag with a surrender flag which imo is the real flag.
The Confederate Flag is. in my opinion (as a White Brit so do with this what you will), one of those items you tilt your head at when you see it. To Southerners, it may be patriotic tradition but to anyone else who don't have very specific context, it has the same kinda reputation as the Swastika. A symbol originally meant to show peace that was corrupted by extremist scum who use it as a rallying symbol against a minority be they the Nazis or the KKK. Sure, the latter are an extreme minority in America but reputations supersede that without very specific context not helped by the fact I've only seen that flag in the context of the Civil War or during the 50-60's Civil Rights opposition era. I was once watching a video where it showed a Texas pub and I honestly did a double take when I saw the Confederate Flag flapping on a wall. If black people are cool with it, at least when it isn't being used by racists, fantastic. It still will never cease to be weird to me though.
People say the south cant say that that flag is there coulter black are still upset about the civil war so stop getting mad at us for something that hapenned over 100 years ago
As an Artist and from a Graphic Designer standpoint, I find both flags' designs beautiful.
People just hate Southern culture: states rights
Same here!
You know I was just wondering about what the history of the flag was as it is being more recognised around the world currently. The power of motion to inform. Keep up the great work! Bravo!
Thanks Leigh, yeah I love animated mograph docs. It's definitely an engaging way to tell stories. :)
Well you've been misinformed. It stands for southern pride, not racism.
Your neighbors to the north have always and unanimously associated this flag with racism...
Because of their false hatred for southerners. They would rather the south pay for their ignorance.
@@kalthaus4 We don't hate southerns in the least. We could most certainly do without racism though. Unfortunately for the south, this flag has been adopted and flown regularly by the KKK . You want to talk about hate, then look no further than your own backyard.
My backyard as well as all 50 states has racism. History shows that most racism was in the north & was under the union flag. White supremacist groups use the union flag as well as the battle flag & that is my argument.
If the north didn't hate southerners then why attack monuments of those who did more for the black population nervous & after the war then Lincoln did his entire existence? Lincoln was a self proclaimed racist until he needed more support for his war on the south. Slaves were brought in by northern bank financing & ships & sold by northerners to the south, where is that history? It won't be told until the north gets over the fact the south did not fight a war to keep slaves no more then Lincoln started the war to free them.
@@kalthaus4 we were talking about what the Confederate flag has come to represent in North America...
@@kalthaus4 get it over with, declare everything and everyone racist (except yourself of course).
I would like to be remembered as one who believes in John 3:16 and John 14:6.
Well put! The gain in popularity during the Civil Rights Era is something I really try to push in conversation. It was meant for intimidation in most cases, clearly.
still gonna fly it 😂
As a jew i do not see racism when i see that flag,i see a cristian battle flag,who addopted from scotland who adopted from russia,i see racism when i see the rainbow flag,wake up people we are being balkanized by DAVOS GROUP
My school thanks is slavery but it's actually the battle of west Virginia of Northerns
I’m 15 years old and I have a Rebel Battle flag and I love it
if the confederate flag is racist, can I still carry it?
No
It’s simply not racist
Thanks for sharing your view. Do you have any evidence for backing that claim?
Why is the Corwin Amendment not being discussed?
Because that wasn't passed because multiple slave states had already left the Union. Way too little, way too late. It's a footnote in history.
@Curious Refuge Lincoln abolished slavery only in some states and in fact his dad in-law was a slave trader. And to, the South didn't start the fight. Lincoln did in a manner to have the support of the people of the north.
I am general lee... a piston buston...
It's my understanding that the South seceded from the union because of abusive tax, tariff and trade laws that benefitted the northern states but placed huge burdens on the people of the South. They were so burdensome that the South felt it had no choice but to secede in order to live a decent life. It wasn't about slavery. The attack on Fort Sumpter was not an all-out attack. There were no casualties. It was just a rebellious reaction by southerners that learned Lincoln had sent union troops there to collect taxes when the South had already seceded. The North used this as an excuse to declare war on the South, to burn it to the ground and to force the people there to submit, at the cost of over 600,000 lives. The South had every right to secede. If not for the corruption plaguing our country's government, the South would now be its own nation and slavery would not exist. Even Lincoln admitted it was on its way out and that it had nothing to do with the war. The confederate flag did not represent slavery or oppression. It represented a desire to live unoppressed and as a free people.
Nope. This is the lost cause myth that was taught in schools in the early 1900s to rebrand the south’s actual cause for fighting the civil war which was the states rights to own people. When support of slavery became socially taboo in the early 1900s the myth you wrote out was crafted by the UDC as a way to rebrand the legacy of southern veterans.
I feel sorry for you! You are really a very tragic person!
Nowhere in Scripture does anyone find that the "simpleminded' are blessed!
@@curiousrefuge that’s wrong
@@leemerriweather2471 you’re right. It says that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness are blessed, which is what we are trying to do on this channel. Creating God’s kingdom is our primary objective and that is why we are so passionate about promoting ideologies and nations that view people as people.
@@curiousrefuge:
Thank you and GOD Bless all of you there!
All individuals must understand that GOD, HIMSELF, places a very high premium on people respecting others as they, themselves, wish to be respected!
NO.1 A flag in itself cannot be racist
Yes its what the flags stands for thats racist in this case the fight to preserve slavery
@@anthonyparisi2386 It was to preserve states rights. Slavery was #7 in the top ten reasons for the war.
@@OlesonMD first off no it wasnt and if it was what were the state rights They were fighting for? Second must we go through the illegal succession documents given by those states to prove you wrong?
@@anthonyparisi2386 The internet is your friend. All the info on what really happened is available. Put your keyboard to work.
@@OlesonMD ok
Thanks for the history lesson. I am from the other country and barely know anything about the US history. And after many times watching some American movies time to time i hear about Confederates. And now i touched this topic one more time and it raised a question in my mind "Who are they?" and what the flag people talk about. And what the story is behind it.
You made a good answer! Thanks!
I'm sorry but he really did not the flag is not about racism it's for southern heritage
@@icy_studio_films9740 What side do you think was using that flag in the Civil War? It was the side that wanted to keep treating black people like animals and not like actual people. I don’t know the history of my family. But even if my ancestors fought on the Confederate Sid win the Civil War I would never use that flag in any positive light. The ones on the Confederate flag don’t deserve honor. The only a Confederate flag should be used is to be on display in History museums. Also when it’s being burned.
I hate that my neighbors have a car in their backyard with a Confederate flag front plate and I hate that every school day I ride past 4 houses with flagpoles in the yard with Confederate flags.
I would love to burn a Confederate flag. But I don’t want people seeing me with one and thinking I like that flag. I also don’t wanna give any money to people that sell them.
Oh and also one of the only places it should be used is in movies about the Civil War.
Somehow a BATTLE FLAG is racist
hundreds of thousands who died in the confederacy*
The flag is historical.Leave it alone.
So is the nazi flag and auschwitz, one is a well known hate symbol (mostly flown next to the rebel flag) and the other one is only kept around as a grim reminder of history. People don't go to auschwitz to praise their history as a german, they learn that this horrible thing happend because people who shouldn't have been in power were. Its so weird that people go to these statues of racists and praise them. Its so fucking offensive to people who had to live under a brutal system were they were property. History is painful and you should learn from it.
It represents hate, and the confederacy wanted to keep slavery, there is NO justification to be having it around.
@@ChristopherGray00 History is history,good and bad.Many brave men and boys fought and died for the Confederacy.They were veterans.Respect them and their flag ,if not,feel free to leave.
That is not the Confederate States flag. Get it right, that was the Confederate States BATTLE FLAG!
Did you not watch the first 3 seconds of the video?
Well done. I hope this gains traction and public recognition. As a southerner, I'm constantly exposed to the very transparent excuses for using racist symbology.
It's not racist no way ......
the battle flag was part of the confederate flag
If it was about slavery like you say it was does that not mean that the Union had more slaves to fight and win the war? Or does it mean that the Confederates had enough slaves to end a war like any real man would do? I mean I personally say the war started of taxes on high cotton better known as weed today and slavery wasn't even an issue till they made it one! But wouldn't the real slaves here be the ones actually fighting a war no matter how much they was getting paid to do so?
The number of people in this comment section still arguing about how the Civil War wasn't *just* over slavery is truly lost at this point, and no amount of education will help them. "The Southern States wanted to secede because of their rights. It wasn't only about slavery." Okay, their "rights" to what, exactly? Ask yourself that. Answer: Own slaves. It ALL comes back to they wanted to, literally, own human beings because they saw them as less than, and even then, that's beside the entire point of this video. This video points out that the flag we know as the "Confederate Flag" isn't even the *actual* Confederate Flag, and the roots of the Battle Flag are absolutely rooted in racism. The rise of the Battle Flag and the reason it's even still flying today is absolutely because of racism. Like, how can anyone still deny these facts?
Spot on!
I honestly don't know why my great uncle a civil war6 veteran fought for or why he was there or what the war was even about due to this mess
@@ernesterz Lol. No.
You used it as a symbol of only racism,you didn't mention the southern states that thought the government which was primarily in the north,the money rich area,steel,oil,transportation and the south more agricultural,they thought there was an abuse of power toward them and they wanted to succeed from the union,they were right about that and they had a right to do so,but the north said that wasn't going to happen,so in 1865 the flag had 13 stars representing the south and it was a turned into the battle flag,yes the south didn't want to give up slavery,but the north also had slaves,the black slave owners didn't want it to end either,it was labor,the slaves were brought to Haiti for sugar,but when the French stopped sugar production they left the slaves to fend for themselves,look at that that country today,slavery was a horrible thing,but man has never been good to all men,it's far more complicated and it goes back thousands of years with slaves of every color,there are still enslaved people today,look at every label in your home that says made in china,india,pakistan.
Say you “didnt watch the video” without saying you didnt watch it
Actually the war didn’t end until Johnston surrendered in NC. It was the Western theatre army that had been driven East
And why I don't care
It's so sad that people thing they have the right to own other people...Black White yellow purple or blue...we're all just people.
You think in today's society people would just stop seeing people for there colour...religion..it's really sad 😔 I hope for a more accepting future for my little girl.❤
People have been inslaved since the beginning of time even in the bible of every race. And it makes me made that in this current age someone has owned slaves for decades. Yet whites continue to get banned n it is racist for anyone to blame an entire race for what happened decades ago. There were even Irish sold by there own rich people into slavery shipped to Barbados to work a long side the African slave. They mixed,while working side by side had kids and that's how Black Irish came to be.
Interesting.
Check this out:
Slavery under the American flag: 1776-1865.
Slavery under the Confederate flag: 1861-1865.
But...the Confederate flag is more racist?
The logic...it burns.
Did you fail your classes in school that taught you how to critically think and not use logical fallacies?
@@rn6312 So, what did I get wrong?
You're telling me America didn't have slavery, prior to the Civil War?
So, why is it the South was evil for having slaves, but we wnt almost 100 years before the Civil War, having slaves?
I thought it was state rights ?
That idea was placed in school textbooks by the Daughters of the Confederacy in the early 1900s as a way to rebrand the war to remove social shame from the veterans who were dying off. However, when you look at first hand materials and especially that quote from Alexander Stephens, it's clear that it was "states rights to own black slaves" and not simply rights alone. Any other excuses, was just further justification for the primary reason of enslavement. But again, the rebranding of the true intent behind the civil war a few decades after the war ended when it was increasingly less socially acceptable to have been a slave supporter.
@@curiousrefuge ok yankee
@@drewfowler1985 I'm from Texas and studied American History using direct source materials.
Note: the previous comment was deleted by the user.
No from The University of North Texas. I have a degree in reconstruction-era American history and drove around to confederate sites and even re-enactments to learn more.
States rights to own slaves. Lmao nice try though.
I can make the same argument about the Union or California state flag. In 1862, California governor Leland Stanford (who founded Stanford University), called the Chinese an inferior race. In 1931, the state also passed a law that barred the marriage between Asians and Whites. The United States government, under the Union flag, wasn't too kind to Native Americans, Asians, German or Italian citizens and the Irish. During WW2 German and Italian Americans were screened or surveilled by executive order, interned or denied property and employment. Just as the Japanese had been. Boston had violent busing riots in 1974 and in the 18th Century, was a major slave auction hub. Can we also claim then, that Massachusetts is racist. Am I downplaying the institution of slavery. No, but it was a far more complex issue than people realize. For example, one of the largest investors in Southern plantations, was the Bank of New York. I would highly recommend reading the CSA Constitution. Not just the sections on slavery. Which by the way, could be abolished by any state in the Confederacy, if they chose to do so. As all restrictions were placed on the CSA Congress, not its states. Each state seen as sovereign and independent. This clearly defined in the Confederate Constitution Preamble. The word slavery absent from the Preamble's text. Surely, if the only thing the CSA was worried about was slavery, why is it not mentioned in their Preamble. And yes, hate groups such as the KKK have misused the Confederate Battle flag for their own twisted ideology. However, that was never the intention or purpose of the flag. It was strictly used on the battlefield. Btw, the first flag flown by the CSA was the Bonnie Blue. Why the Bonnie Blue? Because it was the first star, the root of the Confederate flag. Had something to do with Southern colonists declaring independence from Spanish rule in 1810. Out of which came the short-lived Republic of West Florida. I'll give the presenter of this video an A for effort. However, he is somewhat historically inaccurate.
Counterpoint: the Union and California weren’t formed specifically to preserve the horrible institution of slavery.
@@GNF54 Lincoln promised the South they could keep slavery if they stayed in the Union. Why then would you secede, if you were guaranteed slavery would not be affected. And in 1859, William Lloyd Garrison lead a movement for the North to secede over the issue of slavery. With the Dred Scott decision in 1857, upholding the Fugitive Slave Clause. If the South was formed solely for the purpose of slavery, why didn't New Jersey join the Confederacy. New Jersey didn't abolish the institution until January 1866.
im honestly confused why it matters what flags people wave
the meaning of flags are subjective
people can think the usa flag as freedom or democracy
some other people look at the flag as a sign of imperialism and evil
why does it matter
if someone is racist and waves the confederate flag don't blame the confederate flag
blame the racist
really the real meaning of the confederate flag is that it was made by a rebel group 300 years ago
why are we still caring about a flag that was made 300 years ago
It’s not subjective it’s racist
So if I believed the Naxi flag was a symbol of peace and I got a couple million ppl to agree with me, does that make it true?
@@TheMCNemesisOnAmazonMusic fun fact the swastika was actual a sign of good luck in Asia before hitler used it
as I said its subjective
do you think old temples that had swastika on it in Asia used it because they knew it meaned racisism
look you can think its racist but as i said thats how you view it as. but you have to understand that theres many ways how people can view a flag
@@solidcoal8131 So that means I should fly it? Tell people that its just a symbol of good luck? No chance. People fly flags subjectively but more times then not the people who fly confederate flags and racists tend to be one in the same. We do blame the racists and a side affect to that is condemning the flag they fly. If the confederate flag seems to only stick with people who really hate black people, I don't really know if id want to support it! There is just something in my brain that makes me think that doing that is a pretty bad decision.
@@wiimotethrower2860 support it?
Its called freedom of speech
bro your making yourself sound like a dictator from 1940
Well simple. It ain't racist
Yup, the KKK only adopted it for the pretty colors and the inclusiveness it represents, no other reason, totally.
@@Ben00000 you believe everything liberals brainwash you to believe
@@southslastrebel2575 Interesting hypothesis, got any examples?
@@Ben00000 examples of what
@@Ben00000 because the liberals are the ones that turn the Confederate flag into a symbol of racism just like they're doing with the name Dixie just like they're doing with the okay hand gesture . all those are liberal brainwashed bullshit ideas that are not based in reality
Lol the amount of TRIGGERED people in the comments 🤣
So true.
So true.
to me it reminds me of the south the good times there and my ancestors , where they were born and raised and are buried , I don't care what negative people come up with about it , you hate the south I really could care less , God bless dixie forever and the USA together again , God bless the rebel flag
Amen brother!!!!!!
To me it reminds me of a illegal attempt by traitors to leave the Union
@@anthonyparisi2386 daily talking chit go make a pizza
It became "racist" during the Dylan Roof incident bc media told everyone it was. In the early 2000s numerous black rappers were repping this flag on their sets and clothes
Really man. Truth is truth not becoz an organization says it. It is coz it is the truth.
1. I would say that it became racist as soon as it was flown for a nation that desired to prolong the enslavement of people based on the color of their skin. Along, with the other historical events outlined in this video.
2. Culturally Appropriating a symbol or saying doesn't mean supporting the ideas that the symbol was created for, often times it is a critique on the institutions upholding the symbol. As would be the case in your example.
@@curiousrefuge At the end if the day they "culturally appropriated" that flag bc in their eyes they did not view it as a racist symbol. It largely wasn't a racist symbol in the public's eyes until media influence played its role. Sorry I'm not buying the critique on the institution bit either. This is a rap/hip hop show im talking about, not a philosophy debate afterall
@@cornpop7176 That is just not true. White Southerners hugely viewed that flag as a symbol of white domination over the black race. That is why this flag was flown in lynchings, anti-integration protests, and the like.
Yes, you are correct that public did not know about this until from the media. But the media merely informed us info about the flag by stating facts, which is something that can't be stood by a lots of people, including you by the looks of it.
Just because something is not given enough attention does not mean that it is not a big deal. Just because you are doing a wrong thing in secret and getting away with it, does not make it an okay thing to do.
@@cornpop7176 The intention of this video is to just state facts. Stop blindly blamely media if things do not pan for you, like a typical guy who can't stand the truth (i.e: a modern-day conservative).
Not saying to take his word for gospel. Read history books to sharpen your knowledge.
It kinda cool to
nooo its not
Just because the flag was used by racists. Does not mean the flag was intended to be racist. The flag stands for whatever the indivisual uses it for. Nor was every single confederate a racist. Some and probably a lot fought just for their country. Like Robert E. Lee, he was against secession but one of the top generals. To make a argument, you got to look at all sides.
I do disagree with some of what you said but agree with others:
1. The flag was created to stand for a nation that desired to uphold slavery. So it’s founding was racist.
2. I agree that not every confederate was racist. There’s an interesting story from North Texas in Gainesville about abolitionist sympathizers whom the confederacy hung in the second largest mass hanging in US history. So some weren’t racist but generally they were despised if they didn’t uphold slave affirming values.
3. Yes, individuals and communities determine meaning at the communal and individual level. But society wide meaning comes through sociological data.
4. The confederacy population voted for politicians who sought to uphold slavery in 1860. So while not every southerner was racist. The majority of the white males who voted were at the very least upholding politicians who affirmed slavery at that time.
@@curiousrefuge #1 true but not all Dixie boys saw it as racist at the time
@@curiousrefuge Very well stated.
Sean Macguire that’s because they were racist
Flag not racist
If you wave it though, you’re a traitor
@@apple1524 wrong and stupid
It's quite clear you didn't actually watch the video, and simply jumped to leave a disgruntled comment.
There hasn’t been a decent president since Jefferson Davis
My favorite rappers repped this flag hard, DJ Paul the king of Memphis, Ludacris, Outkast, Kanye ect. The flag and the south is dope AF
I do hope I get the truth about this flag
truth Confederate flag stands for hate.
You did
It really isnt.
Agreed, the flag wasnt DESIGNED for racism but sadly some did adopt it for that.
@@bamaman6478 doesn't that technically apply to swastika too though?
@@itzshft yes, your point being? What are we going to stop Buddhists from using it?
@@bamaman6478 I think we can both agree that flying a nazi flag is wrong. If not then you're being disingenuous.
@@itzshft i didnt say to fly the nazi flag XD Im saying if someone uses it in a peacful context such as being a Buddhist, then let them be. This also applies to the Confederate flag and battle flag. Your the one trying to over simplify a very complicated issue.
The south shall rise again!
nice vox video
Great video, explained it very well. Now that being said how can you be Christian knowing your religion was used as a tool of slavery and was used to keep slaves in check. Some scriptures like Ephesians 6:5-8 Paul states, “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ” which is Paul instructing slaves to obey their master. Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-2, and Titus 2:9-10. Christianity in my opinion is like the confederate flag it's still used to oppress others predominantly in red states.
This is an amazing question. I’m actually finishing up a much larger script at the moment about the larger context of the civil war and have a substantial section on this.
Southern preachers cited biblical examples like Abraham having slaves without condemnation from God, Noah’s son Ham was cursed and it was believed that is curse was spread to the African race in what was called the Hamitic curse, the 10 commandments set rules for how to treat slaves without condemning the institution, Paul specifically asked slaves to obey their masters, and Paul even sent Onesimus, a runaway slave, back to his master Philemon.
In short, there was a lot of biblical precedent for defending slavery.
In 1861, Methodist Rev. John T. Wightman said in a sermon, "The triumphs of Christianity rest this very hour upon slavery; and slavery depends on the triumphs of the South . . . This war is the servant of slavery.”
For me personally, I view Christianity as being incredibly contextual as a way of creating life and love in the contexts of the world in which it exists. So in this regard, the Bible doesn’t try to be an overtly political book, but rather created guidelines for sharing gods love in the context in which you live.
But to be fully honest, i still mentally struggle with what can sometimes appear as dissonance between the words of Paul and the words of Jesus.
I’ll likely do a video soon and deep dive on the subject and how it plays into modern expressions of Christian Nationalism soon.
I do however find a lot of peace in the fruits of the spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self-control) when viewing modern Christian movements I often filter through those lenses to see where they are actually coming from.
The flag isn’t racist because it was used during the Civil War. So arguing about the war and why it was fought has nothing to do with this topic. The flag is viewed as racist because it was used by racist groups AFTER the Civil War. Can a flag have different meaning to different people? Of course. But saying it means this to me and ignoring what many others feel isn’t right either. The flag didn’t mean “Southern Pride” until the 1970s. Most Buddhists don’t use the swastika because of the meaning it invokes due to the Nazis. If I had a rainbow flag what would be your first thoughts? Doesn’t matter why I had it, but what you would think.
I was born and raised in Italy, I LEGALLY migrated almost 20 years ago in This great country and finally became a proud new American citizen.
I pledged allegiance to the United States flag. The Rebel flag doesn’t represent me but preventing folks to wave it with pride is absolutely anti-American.
The first amendment protects everyone’s expressions.
If you don’t like that flag, just look away.
I’m so sick and tired of this woke snow flake generation.
After more than a century people must move on.
There is not enough room here to tell how many " facts" he has wrong.
Feel free to let me know.
I grew up in Texas. I believe some see it as racist, some see it as just representing southern states. None are wrong but don’t judge people on what they believe in. And besides this is the rebel flag, not the official confederate flag. I genuinely don’t mind the flag, and I actually like it. Am I a racist? No not at all, but it does genuinely express southern pride. No different than flying a flag from another country.
I'm not racist but I don't have a problem with the flag. I see it as part of our history. I personally feel if people want to fly the pride flag great. If they want to fly BLM flags great. Or any flag that pleases them great. I fly the American and Confederate battle flag together out of respect of all the soilders who died in that terrible war. Not all people are racist who fly the flag. We can make any flag racist or hurtful if we use them wrong. That's really what we should be teaching are children.
So how do you feel about flying it knowing that hate groups use it as a symbol to create fear among black Americans? Would you say they are using the flag wrong and have now made the flag racist and hurtful? I’m legitimately curious. Because while I don’t personally agree with flying it, a blood stained banner has less connotation with the later hate groups that popped up and still symbolizes the CSA. Maybe that would be a better flag to fly if you feel your convictions want you to fly a flag memorializing the CSA?
@@curiousrefuge I think I made it very clear. You can use any flag as a hate symbol. I'll make this even more clearer. The last time I saw a black panther flag they burned our house and almost killed my mother. Recently my guitar shop was destroyed by a group of BLM protesters waving their flag. I'm proud to wave my American flag and my Confederate battle flag because I don't do it out of hate. I think I made that very clear.
Right, violence and destruction of any kind is ethically wrong. So we agree on that. I’m just legitimately curious about why you settled on the flag that was co-opted by white supremacists and not the flag that actually stood for the nation. I’m legit not throwing shade, I am just curious. Is it because you were raised to believe it didn’t stand for racism? (Note: This is a reply to a comment that was deleted)
@@curiousrefuge I see the flag as a historical item. I was raised to treat everyone equal. I'm curious do you support BLM flags or black panther flags when they are used to hurt people? It's no different and I don't see how anyone could think that it is. I don't use the flag as a hate symbol. I served our country for 20 year's because I love this country and I want to protect all of us. I think I was raised well.
@@curiousrefuge I feel any flag can be racist if you use it in that manner.
You have the right to your opinion. My opinion is, it is a beautiful flag, it is a American Flag. If that flag had flown, we would not have the rights & liberties we have today. It's to bad so many people listen to narrow minded people.
"If that flag had flown, we would not have the rights & liberties we have today."
I agree 100%
"It's an American flag..."
No, it's not. It's a flag of a people that wanted to tear America asunder so that its ruling Plantation class could continue to own people as property.
It is a decidedly UN-American flag.
As a side note: Neo-Nazis in Germany are forbidden by law to display a Nazi flag. Know what flag the Neo-Nazis 8n Germany rally around? Guess the flag.
The only reason I like to argue with this is although, as a southern supporter myself, this was was a main reason because of slavery and it played a big part in the civil war, most confederate soldiers were usually poor farmers and town folk, fighting for the preservation of the secession, but that said, many people who were poor still supported slavery, but just wanted to clear that up, good video
Edit: I'd like to say to calm the south down here is that he's not saying the regular Confederate flag used by southern soldiers was racist, but rather the slaveowners and because it was used by the kkk and Dixiecrats, and slave owner supporters, racist groups, it has tarnished our beautiful flag, and we are scared to hide it in urban environments due to hate, anyways, I'm sorry for the African American community, anyway, Long live the US, Long live dixie
Happy Juneteenth!
No.
Yes.
It is only racist if you think it is
I think its racist.
It's racist regardless of whether or not anyone thinks it is.
it isnt lolz
So your saying that SOUTHERNERS ARE NOT AMERICANS.
Why did the president try to get the slaves out even tho he didn't stop the slavery in the city where he had full control he could have stopped slavery in the city first if he really wanted to slaves free
That would have made him the toast-of-the-town at many Abolistist parties and helped his image on RUclips some 150+ years later, but I don't think the big picture gets further along that way.
He actually didn’t feel like legally he could set slaves free because up to that point in the war states that set slaves free used legislation and voting, not executive orders. However, halfway through the war Lincoln saw an opportunity to 1) Give the Union a renewed reason to continue the war and 2) A way to remove slaves from ‘conquered’ areas in the south, essentially permanently removing slaves from that area and making it harder for that area to continue their slave-based economic way of life, even if the war ended up turning in the south’s favor.
Imagine the researchers are all Democrats, and this creator as well. The Confederates were all democrats, and the Union was Republican. Abe Lincoln was a Republican, Andrew Johnson was a Democrat. I'm pretty sure hardly anyone knows that nowadays.
His opinion, although some facts, it's still his opinion. When people like this bring up Racism they are keeping it alive, instead of saying a flag is Racist why not drop it, talk about positive things that show you have gotten over it and have gotten out of the past. Maybe we should get rid of the Democratic party since they are the ones that supported the kkk