What Happened to the Other Confederate Flag?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- When the Confederate States of America seceded from the Union before the American Civil War (1861-1865), the new nation needed a flag. Throughout its short history, the flag would be changed twice, and yet none of these flags are the famous design that is most commonly associated with it today and which is still often, and quite controversially seen, across the United States.
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The Bonnie Blue flag was also an unofficial flag of the Confederacy for a brief period at the beginning of the war.
IT was more of a flag carried by regiments from Texas. Texas still has the Bonnie Blue as part of their current state flag.
Not totally correct sir. The Bonnie Blue flag while briefly in the beginning was universally flown by the first five Southern states that seceded. It went back even before the war in Florida, as one of the early state flags.
It represented the defiant spirit of resistance to tyranny which was sort of adopted by the Confederate States.
Thus the use of the tune of " The Bonnie Blue Flag" sung by the Southern States. When Union General Butler took over New Orleans, be band the use, singing and playing of that tune, even went so far as to fine and jail any use by any person.
The Klan was established in December 1865 right after the war, in Pulaski, TN. This group was suppressed in 1869 as the Southern states were readmitted to the Union. In 1913, the Klan was reorganized, and hijacked the battle flag as their banner. This is why it was used in the film "Birth of a Nation" in 1916.
Hijacked the flag?
Please explain.
@@robertcherry7190 meaning that the Klan began using the flag as a symbol of their own hate and motivations while totally disregarding what it initially represented.
@@warrenmcelroy4718 While there could be some subtle meanings that are at times obscured, the Klan fully represents the banner and the confederate cause. It's white supremacy, plain and simple.
If not, why did post Reconstruction southern culture impose Black Codes and Jim Crow when given the autonomy to "home rule"?
Given the post Reconstruction behavior and it's duration, it's unreasonable to believe that former confederates were committed to a higher priority. Too many of their descendants are still committed to it.
Contrast the numbers of black legislators in the south during Reconstruction with the numbers post Reconstruction through present day. What does that difference suggests to you?
@@warrenmcelroy4718 You can also look at when many of the battle flag bearing state flags were adopted. Do you find anything curious about the timing?
...in the land of cotton, old times there are not forgotten...
@@robertcherry7190 look away, look away, look away DixieLand…. I have to disagree, the original Klan did absolutely represent the Confederacy in every way, at first. As time went on they began to get out of hand which is why Lt General Nathan Bedford Forrest ordered the Klan to be disbanded after being disgusted with what was going on. The Klan that arose some years later without the leadership of such an honorable man as Forrest had less of the Confederacy in mind and were more about establishing white supremacy. Either way they had no rights to that flag… but why is it that the Klan flew ole Glory for decades yet not a single word is ever said about it?
The Dukes of Hazard flag represents good ol' boys who never mean no harm.
....right.
Beats the Stars and Stripes of the invaders of Dixie. But, they needed that REVENUE TAX MONEY to preserve a Union of whose Constitution they continually violated.
The first flag was too similar to the Yankee flag in battle and the smoke of battle often confused where the southern units in fight were.Adopting the Saint George Cross on a bright red banner made knowing where your units were easier.
4:07 Lol, says the guy defending a slavery-defined entity when talking about "oppression", the double-standard is hilarious.
Hilbert Quoting on quoting
@@oscarosullivan4513 I was mocking the og quoter, not the great Hilbert
CSA was 100% not a slavery defined entity, it played a role in the orginal succession but it was not the main cause
It’s like the British Empire complaining that Germany was invading too many countries in 1939.
@@hayden3817 Oh yeah, than what was that is so much more important than what led to its creation? States rights? States rights to do what? To preserve the "lifestyle" and "wealth" built on what?
Note even mentioning the Confederate Jack, whick was a square version of the "battle flag". And when army units used the square version, it had nothing tio do with scarcity of materials, the CSA exported cotton to Europe throughout the conflict. It was that the square jacks on the battle fields changed character from flag to standard today standards are long, at that time the square standard was as normal as a rectangular one.
Inability to draw a ⭕
?
Ah, for everyone's information, that flag is the Confederate Naval Ensign which was rectangular. The Confederate "Battle" flag was square! The Naval Ensign design was hijacked by southern segregationist in the 1950s and now everyone thinks its the Confederate Flag... Wrong!
I don't see the x-shaped flag as a racial thing; I see it as a southern thing.
Ahh the good old Austrian EU flag
I often hear ppl say the confederate flag resembles Sothern heritage and while that may be true to some. I think there's a better way to explain why this flag does not stand for pure racism. Born in raised in the south. For the majority of my lifespan the flag was simply true to it's nickname the, "rebel flag" which by definition means anti government, or outlaw. If you were to go back to 1776 I bet they looked at the American flag in a similar perspective.
The Confederate flag is in no way a rebel flag though, the Confederacy never intended on rebelling of fighting a rebellion as they did not wish to over throw the existing Govt. It was a flag of Secession, the Confederacy simply wanted to slide out from under the United States’ control peacefully and continue under their own Constitution. This is why I cringe anytime I hear that term “Rebel flag”
@@warrenmcelroy4718 So let me get this straight. Taking over a Charleston harbor and leaving the Union. Then drafting your own constitution is not considered a rebellion? What kind of mental gymnastics do you use when calculating if it's a rebellion or not?.
You have to remember 1776 was 1 generation away from those that fought in the civil war. To them the North was starting to look like the CROWN. The biggest crime of the north was Taxing the ever living shit out of southern cash crops. Then having the audacity to spit in souths face by keeping almost all of that Tax money in the North due to industrialization.
The argument that the confederacy wanted to peacefully withdraw from the union is pretty irrelevant. Lincoln couldn't allow the south to keep that harbor. So he basically send a lit powder keg that he knew was going to cause a battle. He just never dreamed it would cause a rebellion that would last years. Why do you think four states joint he confederacy after the battle of Fort Sumter? Lincoln and the government's Union soldiers were TYRANICAL and out of control.
Lastly, People like the water down version of civil war happened because one word (slavery). We were taught that in 4-12 grade by shit tier public schools that boiled down the war into a T or F statement. So fucking sad how ignorant majority of Americans are in regards to the civil war. The government doesn't want you to know the truth. That's the sad reality. It was a rebellion in the truest form of the word and we're overdue for round 2.
@@anomalyevolution40 no that is considered secession. Once South Carolina decided to leave the Union then they considered the Fort their own territory, an active rebellion involves taking your violence bro the Govt you’re opposing, but taking control of the Fort was simply a last resort to rid the Federal Govt from their property. They all but begged the soldiers to leave peacefully but obviously they couldn’t do that.
I think the main reason the Rebel Flag has endured so long is because it's just a really solid design from an aesthetic perspective.
I agree, if it didn't look very good no one would remember it besides some history buffs. It is also very distinct from other flags so it sticks out in a way the stars and bars doesn't.
I agree. It’s just such a nice looking flag.
Just like the Nazi flag...
@@demmenhavvags6385 the nazi flag is not nearly as aesthetically pleasing
@@demmenhavvags6385 its far from a good design
"Every flag around the world is covered in a little blood." With me being black and living in Mississippi my whole life I've owned both flags for my own purposes. I also understand both sides as one sees it as hate the other sees it as pride. My opinion on it is "The Flag doesn't make the person..the person flying a flag and why they fly it makes the person."
Once we understand and respect each other as people..then will we see that stuff like this has no meaning
Now if ask what I think we should do is come up with our own rebel flag. Red X, white or Blue background with 50 white or Blue stars or something totally different..either way Ole Glory (The Stars and Stripes now) will always fly high on my Jeep and around me
Live in Mississippi myself. Just a stone throw away from the Jefferson Davis home at Beauvoir. They talk about southern heritage down here but the truth is most all of em are closet racist at best.
" I John Brown am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood".
@@stevemellgard6393 and what happened to John Brown??
He kicked the doors down of people's houses and cut them to pieces with machetes...Then tried to break into an arms building to steal weapons to start his on little war...Hero our killer??? In the end he was hung for the murder of 5 people
You may find the book "The Black Confederates" interesting.
Also by act of the U.S. Congress the Confederate battle flag, being separate from that which represents the late CSA government, was declared to be an American battle flag to be regarded with the same respect as other American battle flags.
@@stevemellgard6393 Im up north in the Delta. Going in and out of Memphis, TN from time to time. Cloest racist is kinda worst. I get that people are hide it but one can not keep it up forever. The truth comes out. Never hate...only dislike something because not everyone does it.
((This made since in my head now typing it doesn't seem like it does))
@@vvt7825 @VVT I've heard of the book. Just never have gotten around to getting it. I'm considering getting it now thanks to you reminding me about it.
For the flag part I never knew that..8m still learning more about due to it being in the spotlight of topics lately. I also found out that the state of Georgia still uses the original confederate flag design as a state flag
People need to wake up no matter what flag you are using, don't use it for hate use it for what it stands for and means
But why raise a battle flag high above the interstate (e.g. I-85) if it was intended as a battle flag for the Confederate states?
also the confederate Navy has a version of the battle flag from the outset for the reason of differentiating themselves from American Naval ships. This was an Official flag and is similar to the Battle flag we see more often to day the difference is the blue cross is a light blue color instead of a dark blue color. the full rectangle battle flag is often referred to as the Dixie flag due to it's political use for Southern heritage.
The rectangular flag was the battleflag of the Army of Tennessee.
Until insanely recently, West Virginia had a law that said that you couldn't wave a red or black flag, or any flag that represented “sympathy with or support of ideals, institutions or forms of government, hostile, inimical or antagonistic to the form or spirit of the constitution, laws, ideals and institutions of this state or of the United States.”
That makes sense, considering West Virginia's history. They broke away from Virginia because of the Civil War.
Laws.....hmm
How recent
No red or black flags because they're worried about another Coal War.
It’s definitely not like that now
The National flag or Stars and Bars came in 4 versions with 7 stars, then 9 stars, 11 stars and finally 13 stars to represent states as they succeeded. The rectangular 'battle' flag you show is actually the Navel Jack. The battle flag was square as you pointed out and came in different sizes. 48" for infantry, 36" for artillery and 30" for cavalry.
This flag at the center of discussion is not the Confederate Naval Jack. Though similar, the Battle Flag of the Armies of Tennessee has a different shade of blue in the cross. Also, the AOT flag is 36 inches wide by 51 inches long, whereas the CNJ flag is 67 inches wide by 107 inches long.
@@gaiustacitus4242 Were the different blues used because that was the written standard, or because the people using them only had access to the color used. It is normal to see flags with different shades of the same color only because they material in different areas and/or times were different shads. Especially at that point in history, defining different shade was not easy to do, so they would call out colors and that was about it. Size was also the same way. Typically they have different ratios but specific sizes.
That being said, I have not reason to not believe you. I actually find that very interesting. I love flags and the history that they represent. Trivial things like is part of the allure.
@@Caderic The difference in shades of blue is by design. The Confederate Navy wanted to differentiate its flag from the battle flags in use by the various States' armies.
I'm curious about the different regiments in TX carrying their own flags to identify them in battle..?
Thank you for covering this controversial subject matter with many deeply held beliefs and differences in opinions. Appreciate it! Leaving a comment for the algorithm as well. 👍
I agree 👍
@@hunterivey 👎👎👎 my grandfather James Roy Steele was a cavalry officer in the Confederate Army, he was a prisoner of war for 6 years in Port Clinton Ohio where he suffered incomprehensible demoralizing torture, and he died 2 years after the war ended, never mind the fact that his father served in World War I as a cavalry officer also, this is my American heritage and nothing or nobody will strip me or my good name of it ‼️
@@davidstaudohar6733 unless he was a time traveller, there isn't any way your grandfather who fought in the civil war, had a father that fought in the first world war.
Nothing controversial about it…unless you want it to be.
Im proud of everyone in the comments for being civil i was half expecting it to be worse
It would help if Yankees would get their history straight but they've been so used to lying for 160 years it's hard for them to stop now! Plus, it shows them in a moral position instead of invading Dixie for REVENUE TAX MONEY.
Don't jinx it.
@@MGTOWPaladin just trying to hear from the other side. But why do you think the civil war wasn’t about slavery? I know Lincoln called it a “tax rebellion” once if that’s true
Why would it be worse?
@@ar-1571 because if it were about slavery, why did Lincoln wait 3 years before the Emancipation Proclamation? Ill tell you why. SCENERIO: Confederacy wins. they control 85% of the eastern coastline, 100% of the Gulf Coast, which includes the ONE MAJOR SHIPPING ROUTE OF THE US (at the time), the Mississippi River. And since the Confederacy would impose a drastically lower tariff, virtually all imports/exports would favor southern ports. This would lead to the federal government slowly going bankrupt without its southern "cash cow'. That is why the war was not about slavery. Look up headlines from prominent newspapers, northern newspapers, from the time period immediately after succession, but before the war. There lies the proof.
The sun fading thing is a new one. It's more often said that the Stainless banner would hang limp on windless days, covering the canton, and as such look like a flag of surrender.
The true confederate flag is a surrender flag 😂
@@condor237 come see me! Hearing you scream is gonna be great
So john,where are you,that I may come to YOU ,and surrender?
Waiting...
@@ReallyRabid You’re so edgy 😂
I'm sorry.
Beauregard and Johnston thought the original confederate flag looked too similar to the Union flag and was hard to tell the difference on the battlefield. One proposal was a design that looked like the English flag, but it was rejected. Jewish Southern politician Charles Moise wanted something less Anglican and the classic Scottish/Irish Saltire was made the battle flag with 13 stars representing the 13 southern states and its people
Finally,some truth.
13 stars but only 11 states
@@vvt7825 Kentucky and Missouri joined
@@SouthernGentleman I can't seem to find when they seceded from the USA and joined the CSA.
@@vvt7825
The Union busted in through out the state elected governmental officers and install their own, thus stopping the two border states from leaving the Union. There were several Confederate units that came from those states. The Orphan bragade from Kentucky comes to mind.
Fun fact: The First Issue of the Confederate battle flag (called the "First Silk Issue") was made of Pink Silk, thus the first flags made by the Richmond Depot were Pink!
In Texas, when I’ve seen a Confederate flag, it’s almost always been the first national flag. Either representing a part of the 6 flags over Texas (not the theme park), or civil war graves. Only three times I’ve seen the battle flag. Once in a garage, another in a man cave, and another flying on someone’s lawn.
Have you ever been to a Lynyrd Skynyrd concert?
@@JeffSmith-pl2pj as I recall, the design was also on Dimebag Darrell's axe (sticking with Texas of which the late musician was a native).
But if we wanna discuss weird places to see the Dixie Cross, how about in Utica, NY, not too far from Syracuse? I saw it side by side with the Stars and Stripes on a balcony once.
@@legoworksstudios1 That flag has traveled far indeed, here in Michigan I see it more than I see the state flag and I've even had people tell me they saw it in Ontario
Tbf I feel like Texas focuses much more on Texan identity than southern identity, as in I feel Texans are more likely to wave the Texan flag than the southern flag which I respect. Be proud of your country, be proud of your state, don't be proud of the confederacy.
@@conmereth Seen it in the UK before.
The south also carried state flags. Being born and raised in the south it is a symbol of heritage and unfortunately hate organizations use it too. It's a battle flag and many good men died defending this (where color guards originated a high honor to be a member of the color guard for you defended it against capture, Custers brother a rare 2X medal of honor winner got it for capturing a Confederate flag)The flag allowed commanders in the field of battle to know where their troops were at, due to black powder it was difficult to see and the flag allowed it. IT should be left alone and seen for what is was a battle flag. Changing state flags that have been around over a hundred and 50 years is obsurd too. In those days there was no concept really of The United States you country was your state its different now of course, but then it was far more the state that mattered ( ever notice 7th Florida Cavalry. 10th Michigan Cavalry, 9th New York Infantry, 5th North Carolina Infantry all from states. Not United States. Both Navies were still US Navy and CSA NAVY but the rest was all STATE designations)Trying to destroy history to placate a small number of people is not right. It is rather like wanting to do away with all German made cars because your great grandpa was killed by them in WW1. You never knew him but hold the Germans responsible in a time of war.
Red herring. Cars are not the same as flags.
I did not know a lot of this history. Thank you for explaining this and also for a very fair assessment of how the flag is viewed today by different groups.
If you want real facts stop being lazy and go study the subject firsthand instead of merely accepting the opinions of others on the web.
You're a prime example of how people get filled with disinformation and misinformation.
@@silkwoodart Reported. Trolls go splat!
@@DuelScreen
There was no violations in my comment, so your unAmerican attempt to censor what you don't like will go nowhere, kid.
Grow a spine.
The web is no place for weakness.
@@silkwoodart You're a troll. Go back to Russia. Slava Ukraini
@@DuelScreen
Lmao!
Sure kid.
Whatever.
That public education you're getting isn't working out too well.
i can see both sides but im from south MO yes the flag has been used for hate and it is sad that has happened but to me the flag means a lot cus i had family die for that flag in the 1860s plus it dose mean freedom like the U.S. flag. i would like to say thank you to everyone for being very civil about this.
There were multiple Confederate battle flags and books have been written on the subject. The Army of Northern Virginia adopted a “southern cross” battle flag in late 1861 but it was square. The ANV used variations of this flag for the rest of the war. The rectangular battle flag we all think of as the CSA battle flag was adopted by the Army of Tennessee when in northern Georgia in early 1864. A Confederate Naval jack was similar. There was also the Hardee flag,the Van Dorn flag, Polk’s Corp’s flag and others which few people would recognize as Confederate if they saw it. There was the “Bonnie Blue” flag, subject of a song and identical to the current flag of Somalia. Many Confederates were of so called “Scotch-Irish” descent and there was a battle flag nearly identical to the flag of Scotland.
That square flag was essentially the same battle flag as the rectangular one marked similarly , the presentation explained that fabric was scarce & a square flag used less material than a rectangular one of the same scale .
@@michaelbrannon8452 Confederate battle flags were made of wool bunting. Wool wasn’t in particularly short supply. Most uniforms were also made of wool although jean cloth was also used as there was plenty of cotton.
The great majority of Federal flags were made of silk.
@@michaelbrannon8452 The square flag predated the rectangular one by more than two years. The square one was adopted by the Army Of Northern Virginia in late 1861 while the rectangle one was adopted by the Army of Tennessee in early @864.
@@lowellwhite1603 I know . Sharpsburg isn't far from my house ,so I was emersed in Civil War History since 8 was very little.
@@michaelbrannon8452 cool. I was there last year. I planned to go to Sharpsburg and Gettysburg this past July but got Covid and couldn’t go. Maybe next year. Maybe the visitors center will be done with renovations by then.
I love Confederate flag. Other people love the the black national anthem. Different folks for different people-that's okay for all kinds of people to like your own regional flag or anthem. For me as an individual person, I love the Confederate flag and the Confederate monuments.
I think they're both really cool, for slightly different reasons...
That flag design I believe follows the same pattern of the Scottish flag. Only their's is a white cross on a blue background.
The Southern Cross or more correctly the Scottish Saint Andrews Cross is the proper discription of the design of the Southetn battle flag.
Many various units carried a wide variety of that flag. Many of which were set on a blue field and white diagnal cross with blue stars.
"Saint Andrew's Cross" is depicted on both.
okay let me say this and this not attack but to correct you ! 1st what your showing is Confederate battle flag of Army of Tennesse ! The battle flag of Army of Northern Virginia was same but it was square . The Battle flag of Army of Trans -Mississippi was Blue background with red st.andrews cross with white stars and army of kentucky battle flag was blue background with white St.andrews cross with gold stars ,,,,,, There also Gen Hardee's corp of Army of Tennesse which is red background with blue cross and white stars ! Please there enough history being told wrong and this info is easy to look up if you took 1hr to research it ! Next time do some research please !
My ancestors wrote about how they fought to free the slaves and preserve the USA! I'm disgusted by the re-writing of history and the celebration of this evil. It's like going to Germany and flying a NAZI flag. I'm not going to allow people to re-write history because they are ASHAMED of the past!
Sherman war crimes definitely never happened... oh yeah, which flag did slavery exist for longer, Union or Southern? lol
Same goes for the Rainbow Flag!
@@cjalexanderjr8811 They killed how many thousand of American soldiers?, and put how many million people in gas chambers?
they enslaved people for generations , raped and murder them at will right? That's the equivalent in your fascist mind?
I never knew the official flag was changed 3 times, interesting
Consider that in 2022, Georgia's state flag is the Stars and Bars.
It’s worth noting that opinions on this vary widely even within states. The president of Texas was ousted by democrats for his opposition to joining the confederacy. Texans today still don’t consider themselves southerners. However east Texas was populated by many southerners moving westward that brought slaves with them while in west Texas the practice was virtually non-existent. However, opposition to centralized govt is fairly unanimous in Texas which is why even in the west - there is a high school named after Lee, with a famous football team, which flies the battle flag of the confederacy at the school and at football games. A now deceased friend who went to that school and later became a professional football player in the NFL was black yet always had a confederate battle flag decal on each of his vehicles until the day he died. In west Texas racism isn’t really existent, and the flag is often seen flown or as a bumper sticker - seen more as an expression of independence or as a symbol of a ‘rebel’ while in east Texas where racism *does exists in pockets - the confederate flag is not as often sighted in any form. Just a bit more cultural anthropology to offer as requested. And yes - let’s all be civil with such a contentious issue.
I think with lots of symbols it’s about context. If I saw a guy dressed in a period uniform with it I would assume he’s a re-enactor and probably not racist. However if I saw a group of men marching through the street with it and shouting right wing slogans I’d probably think yep hateful. I think it’s about context however I can see why it makes many people uncomfortable and more importantly it’s not always even the historically accurate flag to use. So I’m divided and as I’m English it’s not really used much here so I don’t really have many personal experiences with it’s usage.
Another good example would be certain norse runes and Celtic symbols. When they’re being used by neo-pagans and historical groups I think they’re nice. However I can’t deny that many neo-nazis I’ve seen have them tattooed on their bodies and use them as symbols. Think it’s another example of context being important. We actually discussed symbols to do with nationalism in my degree I’m doing, and how they are usually used specifically to divide or unite people. For example I think of the Union Jack as being more about unity than say the English flag. Not to say the English flag is bad, just it gets misused more often
Most people do not know that the flag that is most visual was NOT the flag of the CSA. That flag was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Yep! Lee's Army.
thanks for finally mentioning that the confederate battle flag is not the actual flag
Symbols change meanings all the time, so while the "heritage, not hate" angle started off as a part of the Lost Cause mythmaking, in this case it worked, the Confederate Battle Flag is more of a symbol of Southern heritage and anti-authoritarian frustration.
It should be noted that the Klan and neo-Nazis also frequently fly the US flag at their events, as well, so why should the Confederate flag be singled out? They misappropriate one, why not both?
The 2nd flag is actually a battle flag for General Lees army, there were actually 3 different flags the Confederate states adopted .
As a black man in America I have mix feelings about it.
The Ascetic of I like but I feel some connections to it coming from South Carolina. It's a fine line there a lot I've seen some people who wear it with pride are my friends
@@garrettgentry4417 His channel suggests otherwise. 🤣
@@garrettgentry4417 What would a true black say?
It's got a similar reputation to the previous flag of my home country in that regard. I can't say I would wear that one with as much pride as one of the constituent ones within it, though - and that one is tied to a constituent region with a more similar history to the American South.
The Confederate flag didn't bring as much controversy when I was younger. Growing up in the 90s/early 2000s, many black kids I went to school with wore Confederate flag shirts. It's a cool looking flag and no one thought about any slavery connotations.
@@SterbiusMcGurbius Back in the 90s it was part of the reason I never bothered listening to Pantera.
No regrets, they were disappointing AF once I finally heard them.
Next, make a video on why there is a Union Jack in the Hawaiian State flag and why people in Hawai’i aren’t speaking Hawaiian.
Because the monarch of Hawaii really liked the Union Jack.
Also schools in Hawaii are now teaching Hawaiian.
I'm sure I will get hate for this but I do think that the Confederate flags often look dope as hell! Really good designs.
nah bro W fax
It is a good design, but a good design used by awful people
@@xELITExKILLAx 6% of all southerners owned slaves. You really think the people gathering in lines to be shot were wealthy slave owners? The VAST majority were simply protecting there homeland.
That's how I got my love of vexillology (The Study of Flags)
It is, alot of confederate battle flags look awesome
Why are people fascinated by the flags of lost causes?
In addition to the Confederates, I think Neo-Nazis and Communists are also in this camp. There are probably other ideologies that I have not considered that belong as well.
People talk at great length about how offensive Fascism is and only focus on Nazis, very rarely do I hear any critiques of Francoist Spain or Estado Novo. Both of those survived into the 70's, before liberalizing. Now American and European Fascists use Nazi symbology almost exclusively.
With China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam you still have countries claiming to be Communist. However, it seems that most Communists in the U.S. are Neo-Marxist or Neo-Stalinist, focusing on the U.S.S.R. No mentions of Cambodia or Angola or any other Communist heritage.
I honestly think that people who use the Battle Flag to represent "southern heritage" are being sincere. Some people seem to gravitate towards the underdogs.
Neither of the latter seemed to take hold anywhere outside their places of origin & as such appear less threatening. ( They are dangerous though).
Even as a white person I never understood the "heritage" argument, given the CSA only existed for the worst four years the south had, and the reality of the CSA was that its government ended out being as top-heavy and centralized as they accused the Federals of being. The CSA battle flag deserves no place in public outside of museums, and if people who sport it for personal use feel misunderstood, tfb because even the swastika, which--unlike the CSA battle flag--started as a peace symbol, is never getting reclaimed as a peace symbol.
I think it's more of sovereignty argument, like the flag of Wales and Scotland with England and also symbols mean different things to different people, and no side can be right or wrong
@sammmycrashbro8971 it was about sovereignty insofar as giving planters even more leverage to preserve a slave economy. "States rights" was never really about people's rights.
Check out the trans Mississippi battle flag from general Polk 🤙🏻
I think that the aesthetics is the most important thing that the battle flag with the St Andrew's cross keeps being valued. The diagonals have always been an important way to represent action.
They're actually about not offending jewish people by the way. The original flag was a cross, but that was christian symbolism, and people were concerned for the jewish population of the south.
I love how Georgia's state flag was changed to the stars and bars design after some people were miffed that it had the Confederate battle flag on it. 🙃
Edit: I live in Northern Georgia and it's pretty common to see Confederate flags being flown in front people's homes and in front of businesses. Most people here are very nice and aren't racist, even if they fly the Confederate flag.
Another note, we also have a lot of Confederate cemeteries and people still bring flowers to the graves because that's their family members buried there.
Respect for the Truth and respect for each other makes for a nice day. The “cancel culture “ people will realize this when they become adults.
They shouldve kept it
I live near Marietta and I’ve never seen a confederate flag.
Clenched fist is socialist/comunist background yet no uproar over people having it on their shirts or flying on vehicles. Double standard?
The legislators who voted for this should be voted out of office either for fraud or sheer stupidity as the new flag STILL represents the same thing as what voters raled against on the first place .
A battle flag is a soldiers flag and represents their sacrifice. To place it in perspective, the Texas lone star flag was also a battle flag during the civil war.
So, where many of the other State flags the units on both sides had two "Colors" the National and the Regimental. The Regimental being in many cases in the South's Army the State flag the unit was from. The Union was more uniform the Regimental being standard with Infantry being Blue, Artillery Red, and Cavalry Yellow, an eagle design with the shield in the middle of the eagle's chest being the States crest as today's Unit Colors have their unit crest on this shield.
Différence is that the lonestar flag was created before the Civil War; the Confederate flag was created explicitly during the Civil War. The reason is more important than the concept.
🇺🇲Lincoln, Grant & Sherman set those Rebs ass's straight damded skippy...and for good. 🇺🇲👍🇺🇲👍🇺🇲👍🇺🇲👍
Georgia's flag is literally the real confederate flag, but since most people don't know what it even is. So it doesn't hurt people's feelings.
People are starting to learn now though. Georgia needs to change it
@@xELITExKILLAx No, they don’t.
@@xELITExKILLAx Many people were enslaved under the Union flag. Why don't we change it?
@@SterbiusMcGurbius Slavery was constitutional WAY longer under the USA flag, and longer still under the British or French or Spanish flags. Know-nothing Yankees spreading their hateful propaganda keep the country divided.
@@SterbiusMcGurbius Who is currently flying a Union Army flag?
The flag most widely recognized as "the Confederate flag" is actually the Battle Flag of the Armies of Tennessee. It was adopted by the Sons of Confederate Veterans as the official flag of the organization, which is why it has been so widely flown publicly.
As to the symbolism of the flag, it represents the will of a free people to defend their homeland, kith, and kin against tyranny.
One final point. Blacks who served in the Confederate armies said they were treated as equals by other members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. This flag was also a symbol of the fight against tyranny for the 60,000 blacks who fought for the Confederate States of America and remains so for their descendants.
Thanks for the informative video. As a native Virginian, I have heard the expression “Stars and Bars”, however I have always thought that this was referring to the X shape flag. Now I understand it to be for the original design. After reading some of the other comments, I see that there were other flags as well. My understanding of the history was the average southern soldier was not fighting for or against slavery, but he was fighting against northern occupation. BK.
The KKK put out a memo not to use the Confederate flag. Their main flag has always been the US flag and they even use the Christian flag but nobody ever says anything about that. Context matters if someone flying it says they're doing so because of their Southern heritage then there is nothing wrong or racist about that. Flag's aren't racist people are.
Georgia Out Here still using the old one for their state.
Stars and bars was the only national flag of the south.
The cross bar was the battle flag and never was the national flag
Great video! I love seeing an outsider's take on US history. You generally have no bias, and your research is sanitized of perceived bias. To answer your last question, the answer is "yes". The problem is that you cannot lump a general feeling toward that flag, without disregarding other opinions. To certain folks, it IS a symbol of racism, to others, it's a symbol of Southern pride and heritage. That's why the arguments here in the states are pointless. Basically, it will be a battle of the majority, when it comes to the flag being socially acceptable. Hopefully, once we eliminate the damage done from over a century of "lost cause revisionism" in American education, we can put that flag in it's PROPER context, and dismiss it as a relic of history.
You cannot erase the Southern ethnicity by talking down to it's people ad nauseam.
It would be awesome if you covered some of the more modern attempts to make a regional flag for the South.
do you have any exemples to show it so we can google them individually?
Yes, please give us examples. My Interest has been peaked
What are you talking about?
@@theandyman88 The new southern flag redesign by studio 360 for instance. It looks unique.
The fact it's a more "politically correct" southern flag makes it much more politically charged than even the original confederate flag.
Where do you base your argument that there was not enough cloth to make orthogonal flags?
Much like during WWII & today supplies were short & transportation was partially disrupted increasing shortages of goods that existed, yet couldn't be delivered .
@@michaelbrannon8452 Flag could be shorter then, but still orthogonal...
It is as symbol for all southern people. Regardless of their color.
There's a book called "Flags of the Civil War" by Philip Katcher that's very informative and worth a read.
I'm italian and I love that flag, I grew up with the Dukes of Hazzard and for me and my friends the rebel flag or southern cross has always been a symbol of rebellion, independence and fight aganist an oppressor stronger than we are. And of the south in general, regardless of race. And it looks incredibly beautiful imho.
Not what it originally represented, hence controversy.
good to know that you support a flag that stands for white supremacy, and domestic terrorism. even if the confederacy didn't support, nor institutionalize slavery/white supremacy, it still stands for domestic terrorism. The confederates were fighting for nothing more than the """"""right"""""" to own other humans, just because they were black.
@@iateseveralpoundsofsemtex1577 exactly they were traitors to their country
@@Kevc00 I agree, but times change. Let me give you an example.
Nowadays pirates are cool and trendy, it's pretty common to see them represented in movies as heroes, there are pirate themed parks, political parties named after them and the jolly rogers black pirate flag is considered a symbol of rebellion. But pirates were not cool! they were ruthless assassins, stonecold slave traders and cruel looters who wouldn't mind to raze entire cities, kidnap people and sell them as slaves. Had you hung around with a pirate flag two centuries ago, you would've ended up hanging from a tree after like 5 minutes.
They didn't fight for the independence of their nations or anything like that, but here we are, and they are cool now.
If you could ask all those southern soldiers what they fought for, 99.999% of them would answer for the independence of their nation and the defense of their families and cities, not slavery or any kind of racial stuff.
In conclusion, I agree about the controversy, but most of the "anti southern cross" sentiment comes from those who use it for the wrong purpose like the kkk guys and those who just like to have an excuse to riot in the streets and/or feel virtous like the BLM'ers and antifas.
Times change, the perception of the southers cross is no exception. I'll keep mine anyway
@@Andrea-lj4jg but the fact of the matter is they didn't fight for freedom, every one of them fought for slavery. The south seceded solely because of slavery, every single state that seceded cited the preservation of slavery and the racial order as their reason for leaving the US and every soldier in the south knew this.
The second flag is the Rebel Flag. Remember the Northerners were Yankees, the Southerners were Rebels. Somewhere in the last few decades it has become the Confederate Flag. When I visited the South in the '80's the only flag displayed in the south was the Rebel Flag. The Rebel Flag was flown in the south more than the American Flag. I think the American Flag was flown in front of the Post Office. That might not be truth, but that is how it felt. There is a very intimidating feeling when you are from the north and walk down streets of Rebel Flags.
It is a symbol of hate for anyone that did not agree with the mindset of white southerners. The south has never gotten over losing the Civil War.
Really I think it just comes down to the battle flag looking way cooler than the stars and bars
I think you could be correct in that. But is it not deeply offensive to those who fought and died for the USA for people to be dragging out and "proudly" displaying this emblem of separatism against the USA?
@@Lost-In-Blank I don't think the people waving confederate flags care much for the Union dead
The Confederate flag represents people that stand up for what they believe in and defend the Constitution no matter people who do not like this flag should just deal with it because it's mostly southern people who are fighting for their freedom
The decision to retire the Mississippi state flag is not erasing history, ... “if you don't understand history you will go back to it again. Let me tell you something the Confederate army will come back again
As a national federation of Confederate women's organizations, the group brought together numerous women's associations working to memorialize the Confederacy.
As heirs to Confederate veterans, we will defend them as vigorously as our ancestors defended their causes.
May the Lord bless every defense of freedom, the constitution, and the Confederate flag. May the Lord bless the states that are: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee and North Carolina. Kentucky and Missouri
Legally ( unless flown in a Confederate cemetery) it is still a flag of one of the enemies of The United States of America .( for reference: I've been across The Mason- Dixon Line so many times that I've lost count).
It represents the Constitution of The Confederate States of America , sworn enemy of The United States of America. Read a history book....or did you burn all of those?
People can display the first flag and the liberals would have no clue! 🤣
I'm one to whom the Condederate flag is a symbol of our region of the country, and however ironic it may appear to some, it's a symbol of rebellion against any kind of coercion or authoritarianism. I don't know any neo nazis or kkk members and have nothing but contempt for both.
It was carried by rioters inside The Capitol Building during the attack on The U.S. Capitol on January 6th . !
The flag commonly associated with "The South" has become a symbol of bigotry and repression. I do not think for many it started out that way. For many it was a symbol of a shared regional trauma of immense proportions, the South being the only section of the country which has suffered the effects of an industrialized war and occupation. If you wish to see how such a war can change a people or region, watch the news.
Sadly, it was transformed, perverted into a symbol of bigotry and intolerance. Any other meaning has been erased. I can teel you, however, that for many in the past it simply said: "We are different because of what we suffered, we have a different identity." That has been erased.
Sir, with all due sincere respect , that flag started out as a mark of treasonous war of American versus American. It needs to be laid to rest except in Confederate cemeteries & history books .
I live in rural Ohio and i see the rebel flag quite a bit as ppl use it as a show of being rebels from society
Yup! WV too !
Being rasied in the south, I have an exteremely deep love for the Confederate flag(s) from a point of heritage and remembering the dozens of ancestors who fought in that war. It's always annoyed me how groups like the KKK decided they liked the flag so they stole it and therefore earned it an absolutely horrible rep.
Honestly, at least from what I've read and heard, people really just saw it as a sign of rememberence until the terrorist groups came in and took it.
And yeah, probably the fact that our family farm was burnt in Shermans March greatly impacts what I feel about it. It really does sadden me though to see people see it as a sign of racism, when where I live I ain't never met a racist although I see them flying a good bit.
The x on the battle flag is really the cross of Saint Andrew. So there was of course a godly type symbolism that they were trying to do.
Still expecting the Wilhelmus to pop out from somewhere...
OK: ruclips.net/video/gwBrR_G70RE/видео.html
@@Otokichi786 Thank you very much, I suppose? Hilbert usually plays Wilhelmus in his videos every time the Dutch are mentioned, and I am used to it, but cheers I guess. It's a nice anthem
@@cerebrummaximus3762 Another (long) Anthem: ruclips.net/video/gUn-eN8mkDw/видео.html
@@Otokichi786 That's a reference to something, but I don't get it?
It was always was a square .the rectangular version was a Tennessee navel flag that NEVER flew in battle. It was intentionally changing to represent southern pride and heritage a compromise during reconstruction when Northern influence trying to force a complete wipe of the southern heritage. Keep in mind by the 1990s it was fully accepted as southern pride by rap artist a full-on symbol used by the "Dirty South" rap movement out of Atlanta this staying the same until it was politically advantageous to the Democratic party to push the FALSE history to divide the conservative South " the Bible belt" . The association as the confederate flag is a propaganda campaign to create division. The same propaganda campaign that has progressed to the point where just having white skin means you are born "A racist" effectively giving any other race permission to Actually be racist (by definition) . If you want to make a video telling some truth to legitimize yourself then tell the whole truth. Actually use HISTORIC Fact to expose Political propaganda. After all the Democratic party we're the confederates.
Answering before watching:
The Confederate Battleflag never was the official national flag of the Confederacy. It was just the flag of a military unit. It became associated with the Confederacy as a whole after the war.
It wasn't even a flag of a military unit. The closest would be the Battle Flag of N. Virginia but even that flag wasn't quite right.
@@rn6312
That is the unit I was referring to: the Battleflag of the Army of Northern Virginia. It was not exactly the same as today's flag, but it is close though. The original battleflag was more of a square (and the shades of red and blue varied), while the one the general public knows over the past 140 years is a standard rectangle with the colors nearly identical in shade as the US flag.
@@arrow1414 I'm aware.
The Southern states should have seceded in 2020 and for good reason........FJB.
The only Confederate flag that mattered ------>🏳
The only Union flag that matters -----> 🏳️🌈
Inb4 triggered reichwingers.
Whoops, too late. 😂🤣
That's a new one. Did you find it on Twatter or Preddit?
The Union also believed blacks were inferior.
@@boeloevanboeloefontein pretty sure Twitter is going extinct pretty soon, so my guess would be reddit. Anyone who follows ad-pocalypses over the years could have predicted: any incouragement of trolls would create spam bot issues, anything that could upset brands elite conception of themselves on a platform could prompt a mass exodus, blue check gray check thing is two similar and was dumn, and mass layoffs day one is dumb when you don't understand how your newly aquired business really works in detail.
Hey let's face it. IT IS A PRETTY FALG. Its why so many people use it for different purposes.
Racist or not, it is a pretty design, used all over the world. The design even is used on a Russian flag.
Its been a while since I've seen it, but im pretty sure the flag that the southern protagonist rams into the yankee cannon in "birth of a nation" was in fact the blood -stained banner..
You're right
The battle flag is also called the rebel flag. What's interesting is it's use in certain places around the world. There is a Confederate Festival of sorts in Brazil because many southers whites fled there after the civil war. The flag is also used by neo nazis in Germany due to it's association with racism as the Nazi Flag is illegal in Germany. It is known to be used by secessionists in southern Italy as they identify with the rebel association. Northern Ireland is another place it has been used.
The first flag caused too much confusion on the battlefield there was a couple serious friendly fire incidents and so they had to come up with a way to differentiate themselves between the union and the confederacy troops
Yeah I also watched 3 minutes into the video
@@friendsinmyhead2195 Do you know it is possible to have knowledge of things before you watch a video on them. I made that comment before I even started the video.
@@0944clayton yeah maybe watch it first before you fill the comments with information in the video
@@friendsinmyhead2195 it doesn’t matter either way commenting increases his visibility to other people and I do like this channel so I would like to see more people watch it
@@0944clayton stupid take lol
The flag didn't change . People are simply uneducated about their own history. The second flag was and is simply a Battle Flag. . To be exact is the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
So it's literally a case of Americans don't know their own history. And a bunch of idiots today like to fly the Battle Flag as their own symbols.
Some say heritage reasons which is legitimate. Others use the flag as part of their attempts to intimidate people.
So it's a battle flag being misused today.
I am black. Ok, lol. When I was a kid, I had a fascination with history and particularly the Civil War. I collected all kinds of memorabilia and that included confederate flags. I was from the south so I thought it natural to favor the southern cause and proudly adored my collection. But when I grew up and learned the racial connotations behind the war and what the flags represented for people like me, I ditched everything and have always kept quiet about it since. I think there is a beauty in loving your native land, but the fact is, unfortunately, the war and confederate flags' symbolism represent racial bias and pro slavery sentiments. I understand, yes, as a person of color, and a southerner, both the admiration and hatred of the flags. It's all about intent...everything is really.
Being rasied in the south, I have an exteremely deep love for the Confederate flag(s) from a point of heritage and remembering the dozens of ancestors who fought in that war. It's always annoyed me how groups like the KKK decided they liked the flag so they stole it and therefore earned it an absolutely horrible rep.
Honestly, at least from what I've read and heard, people really just saw it as a sign of rememberence until the terrorist groups came in and took it.
And yeah, probably the fact that our family farm was burnt in Shermans March greatly impacts what I feel about it. It really does sadden me though to see people see it as a sign of racism, when where I live I ain't never met a racist although I see them flying a good bit.
As someone from "the south"...I can only remember extreme left whites saying they associate it with racism. And knew a few black folk that had a confederate battle flag either in their house or on their car...(I should go further and say...I *think* I knew more black folk that had them than white folk.)
I think it’s a symbol of the South😢 and remembrance of the American confederate soldiers that were lost in the Civil War and whether it be in a museum or flying somewhere in the south I think we need that to remind us not to repeat history and respect the Southerners that lost their lives in that war.
100% agreed
Like it or not. But the civil war didn't start over slavery. It started becaus the federal government would uphold federal law. s(seems this may be happening these days also) An Abraham Lincoln didn't want to stop slavery but only in rebeling states. not for the states that stayed in the union.
Historically, how common is it for military forces to have different flags from the countries they represent?
Very. Each regiment would have its own regimental standard they carried into battle alongside the national / king's colours.
Nazi Germany would be a great example. The German navy flag is used alot when censoring Nazi imagery.
The Confederacy had eleven States, county militias, infantry, cavalry, artillery, etc. How many flags would it take?
The Royal Navy has its own flag. It uses the flag of England (a Red Cross on a white field) with the British Union flag occupying the canton.
Very common, especially in the military : branch flags& jacks [ Army , Navy ,etc.] ,
division flags & jacks , etc. There were even different designs The American Flag that were circulating at the same time .
i think that the reason why the supporters of the battle flag feel so strongly about it is the fact that they view the flag as a symbol of an underdog army of consript soldiers, who were their ancestors, who, against overwhelming odds, took on an army who, however just their cause was, invaded the south. having said that, the vast majority of germans would want nothing to do with the imperial flag of world war one, or the flag of world war 2. The other thing is that the ferocity of organisations representing the descendants of confederate veterans in relation to flying the battle flag and maintianing has very negatively impacted the image of the south. Since many southern states are poor, it is my opinion tha issues like this negatively impact economic development of southern states. I think that thats an important part of the reason why missisippi voted to get rid of references to the confederacy in their state flag. The fact that they did, indicates that at least some white missisppians voted to get rid of it, which i think is a good thing
The Confederate battle flag is beautiful!
Yeah. And I'm sure you'll look more beautiful after you get your ass whupped black and blue if you were to say this in person to the right group of people who's ancestors didn't benefit at all from being enslaved by the Confederacy.
The Confederacy did exist. There was a CSA. We should never forget that. And lets not forget that the KKK was the strong arm of the Democrat national party. The party that created the CSA in the beginning. And the party that wanted to maintain slavery.
Nice video
I just don't feel the need to fly a confederate flag. I have my Army chemical corps flag, my Christian flag, my American flag and my Texas flag. Now to mark the graves of confederate veterans is just fine but for personal use. I don't feel inclined.
This is my opinion n I'm a son from a mother who was born north n a father who was born south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Miles flag was used by Robert Lee (who was more known because of the war with Mexico) n other top Confederate Generals. Hence why it's more well known as the flag of the South.
I think the Miles flag represents Rebellion n not anything u said or else.
Symbol of rebellion regardless of what others say. I have family in the union side and the confederate side. I personally love learning of the civil war so I show interest in the confederate flag. As well as the union flag.
My view on it is if the rebel flag is racist. Then why isn't the union flag as well? Many racist things happened under the federal flag along the course of history. The trail of tears being an example. I know not many will agree with this comment. But it's something I think about from time to time 🤷♀️
_"As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause."_
- William Tappan Thompson, designer of the Stainless Banner explaining the symbolism behind the flag's largely white design. That's why.
you do realize that the United States flag is also a 'symbol of rebellion'? & why isn't Brazil's flag a symbol of racism, since about 90% of all slaves from Africa went to South America?
btw, the US stopped the import of Africans for slavery in 1802
There is a big difference between racist things being done under or in the name of a flag, and a flag being made specifically for a racist cause. The United States was not formed specifically for a racist cause, even though it was often led by racists. The Confederacy was formed specifically to preserve and expand the racially based institution of slavery.
There is no non-racist context for any Confederate symbols, unless taken completely out of historical context and used for things that have nothing to do with the Confederacy, and even then they are still racist symbols, just used ignorantly by people who don't know any better. The same can't be said for the Union flag.
Nobody can Change History!!! Well, the dictatorship like in Rússia, Z pain, in third World, etc🤔
Most Beautiful flags ever made. Let em wave forever
I like the screen name!
Rebel pride brother
garbage flag
@@jessiemartinez3056 garbage opinion 👀
@@deovindice2625 naw its a fact that flag trash
I drove up to a McDonald's drive up window to pick up my order and pay for it it was a black woman at the window she had Confederate flag fingernails
It's just a nice looking flag. You forgot to mention the Bonnie Brea flag which was the first Confederate flag. Blue field with 1 white star in the middle.
The Bonnie Blue was NoT the first Confederate flag
Point of information Hilbert: the Square design of the battle flag vs the typical Rectangular flag design was done to aid in IFF or Identification of Friend or Foe. That was done intentionally, since not only was the design different but the shape was different making it easier to identify who was who on the smokey battle fields of the civil war due to lots and lots of black powder smoke.
Bullshit
Regimental colors and "battle flags" have historically been square.
Gotta love the dixie, i never liked the confederate flag because it was the flag of a nation that fought for slavery. On the other hand though the dixie is purely a battle flag almost like a pirates jolly roger, its aesthetically pleasing and unites us against the damn yanks 😂
It is interesting to note that no Confederate flag ever flew over a slave ship, British Flags and for a shorter period US flags DID. It is also interesting to note that the Ku Klux Klan also widely used the US flag, especially in the 1920's when alot of the KKK was actually based outside of the old Confederacy and that in September 1926 the KKK staged a large march in Washington where they marched carrying US flags only.
The Confederate battle flag is the flag under which tens of thousands of Southern Americans fought and died. Men who for the most part were not slave owners. This emblem is sacred to many Southerners today as a symbol of that war and struggle and as a reminder of their war dead. The Southern Cross Battle flag is also a nod to the St. Andrews flag of Scotland and alot of the South's population were descended from Scots and Scots-Irish.
I do not see the Confederate battle flag as a 'hate symbol', it is a flag that represents the South from a byegone time, and represents the Southern Soldiers and Confederate war dead. It is a relic of history and also a flag that Southerners display today. It has its place.
It's also interesting to note that the Klan was founded by democrats. That several confederate states were fine with giving up their slaves if they were able to be independent of the union (a main reason for the civil war), and that many southerners had valid concerns that the freed slaves would go on to reenact a revolt like the Haitian revolution. Unfortunately academia teaches a very biased view of history which is seen through a liberal lens that prevents many truths from being discussed.
Well said.
At 9:22 ...a good flag should never have words on it...especially if it denotes a religion...two strikes...
Hillbert back with another banger