Learned how to fly out of Greeley in ‘82. Got into Ultralights later and flew out of Erie at the Airpark and I remember eating at the Convair restaurant back in the day. Fun times
I'm ex-airline and currently a Citation captain with a little over 7,000 hours. The C and E model Mooney's continue to be one of my favorite types I've ever flown second to possibly the King Air B200. They are such fantastic little airplanes. I've always told my wife that if I ever bought an airplane it would certainly be a 60's Mooney. We also just welcomed our second child 3 months ago. I would love to fly these two kids around if finances and time every permitted. Great content!
Thanks Banshee365! It's hard to beat the value of a 60's Mooney. They're affordable, fast, and so much fun to fly. I hope you're able to sleep soon... we're just starting to again. You did this twice?! ;)
@@ManandaMooney our baby it was one year of crappy sleep lol. 4 months was a big change, then 8 months. Each time you get a few more hours sleep I’m a string.
Couldn't agree more! I fly a M20K Rocket and was apprehensive getting behind the yoke with all the stories I'd heard. As long as you're on the numbers with speed and give yourself enough room for a proper and stabilized approach, it's not any more difficult than landing my old Cherokee 235.
Congratulations on your new son!! Thanks so much for doing this video. Totally goes along with how I am beginning to do my landings. Love your channel! Keep’em coming!
Awesome channel! There is very little of Mooney-specific flight and maintenance/repair guidance on RUclips, so it is great to see you high-quality content! Keep up the great work!
Well done. I have owned three Mooney's over the years and used them a lot up and down the West Coast. Now have the K model with intercooler. Such a great IFR platform but never focused in on a landing technique. Found myself always fast attempting to avoid those "shear stalls". Your video spells it out for anyone flying one of the greatest 4 place retractable's in the air. Thanks for taking the time to make this video...
BIG Congrats to you and your wife with the new member of the family. He will be loved by his mother and father and beyond, like all your fans here on this platform that has made me, a better pilot (3800 hours). Thanks for your wisdom, insight as you are, a true pilot especially flying in the Rockies. Tusen Takk -
@@ManandaMooney it absolutely is! You could specialize in some cool training for folks. I have 800 hours and growing daily. I have learned a lot watching your videos
Congrats on the new addition! I’m getting the speed down but having a bit of trouble with height (compared to a Gulfstream) and letting the nose down softly. I did rewatch that landing several times , thanks.
Thanks BJ Love. I would imagine that's a very different sight picture (especially anything taller than a III). I'll make you a deal, you teach me to land a Gulfstream, I'll help you with the Mooney landings ;)
Congratulations on the latest addition to the family - two weeks huh? I thought you looked tired in the video! Good that you are back and am looking forward to your next vlog. Greetings from 🇬🇧!!
I just happened upon your video. Great work, by the way. I learned to fly out of Vance Brand back in 1969. From what I saw the place has sure changed. I lived in Estes Park.
This video helped me immensely while learning to land my 64 E. Biggest thing to remember(for me)when flying so close to the bottom end of the envelope is to leave a touch of power in as long as possible. Had a nasty bounce while trying figure that out. The flaps and elevator need that accelerated air flow over them right up until touch down. If you take that away the plane will lose lift and plummet through ground effect and slam into the runway(if you’re not expecting it). Safe flying and keep the vids coming!
Thanks for letting me know Brian. Your comment was well timed... In my latest video I stall in the flare and have a good bounce. It's been a loooong time since I had one of those. Was a good wake up call.
I had an old WWII fighter pilot for a CFI and he taught "attitude" flying, i.e. put the aircraft in the correct attitude and airspeed and performance are almost automatic. On landing, I crossed the threshold and start gradually lifting the nose until the top of the cowl is touching the other end of the runway. Take a look at where your cowl was when you touched down.
That's essentially flying the AOA or Angle of Attack I referenced in the video. That works, but be careful doing that with changing weights and or updrafts/downdrafts.
Awesome. We’re getting my C back in the air in about 3 weeks. Can’t wait to get back out there and polish the rust off. Thanks for the video and congrats on the new addition!
@@ManandaMooney Did the first post maintenance flight in the Mooney in 20 months yesterday. Was a little apprehensive as my landings in the local Cherokee rental I had used as a refresher were not great. But, did exactly as you described and greased both landings! Gave me a nice confidence boost. Should have it totally signed off in a few more days and I’ll be back in business. Thanks again!
Congratulations on the boy! My M20k has been very challenging to land consistently. Great technique here! Speed control is absolutely key. Enjoying your channel. Nicely done!
The M20C is practically the only plane I've ever flown, about 500 hours now. I think my summariztion of the technique is a) be on speed and b) be patient. This got me thinking though, that I have fallen into the habit of flying it by feel; perhaps I need to go up and put some qantitative numbers around it as you demonstrate. Great channel, found it by accident.
Really nice video. Much appreciated. Congrats on the birth of your child. Parted with our E after a long relationship. Great to see you dropping the gear in your nicely equipped bird. Enjoy!
Congratulations on you new little one! I'am currently a student at Front Range & nearing solo, but I bought a '62 M20C & have hangared at 18V. Because of my situation, I get all sorts of horror stories about landing Mooneys. Although I go undaunted, it still causes me pause and wonder what I may have gotten myself into. My CFI says I'm learning landing a 172 pretty quickly, & he's excited to teach me in the Mooney as well, but hasn't flown one himself, so he's looking forward to the experience of learning himself. I'm going to send him the link to this, & see what he thinks. Seems to me to be some pretty sound & pragmatic advice, thanks!
Sean, while the Mooney might be a little more plane than you’re ready for, I think you did the right thing buying a plane you can grow into, rather than out of. Coming from a 172, here’s what you should know: 1) the Mooney will float 3x what a 172 will on landing. The Mooney wing sits much lower to the ground and ground effect is amplified. That, combined with a slippery airframe is what gives Mooney’s the tendency to float. 2) Your flare will be lower than you may expect. The squatty landing gear keeps the Mooney low to the ground. This will be apparent the first time you taxi. 3) Avoid touch and go’s. The way the Mooney trim system works makes touch and goes a lot to manage - especially for a student pilot. Whenever possible I would plan full stop landings and taxi back (obviously go around if a landing doesn’t look right) 4) Check gear down, check gear down, check gear down. Safe flying!
I have an M20E and am working on my commercial and CFI maneuvers in it. Let me know if your instructor or you need some assistance. I have all the speed and power settings for the maneuvers pretty down for the E model but your C won’t be much different (same airframe)
I have a few hundred hours in a Mooney M20F and certainly agree with your opinion that flying too fast is the most common mistake in landing a Mooney. I'll add that proper airspeed control on final is more important in a Mooney than in most other planes because it's so clean, and also the gear and flaps don't add as much drag as in other planes. If you're too fast on final, your only option is to raise the nose and slow down and if that doesn't work out then go around. I also have significant time in a Bonanza 36 and it's just the opposite, meaning that the gear and flaps add a huge amount of drag so it's very easy to fix a too-fast final.
You nailed it Malcolm. I’ve never flown the Bonanza but it’s on my “to-fly” list. I’m surprised to hear it’s the opposite of the Mooney. I’ve always imagined it would fly like a big M20. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Floating along in ground effect until the stall horn is blaring is certainly a great idea when you have a mile of runway ahead of you. I have owned three Mooneys and on a 1200 foot strip you don't have such a luxury. Final approach speed is critical to keep the landing short. Bleeding off excess speed in an extended float is just a correction for approaching too fast. If you know your plane, you should be down and stopped in a total of 800 feet or less. I was trained by a Mooney factory test pilot and he passed on a secret that requires some coordination, not to be tried by rookies. If you are hot and floating, you have to be right up on the controls and then dump the flaps. You MUST be ready because you are coming down. Attitude control is paramount., but if the remaining runway is running away, you have to get the wheels down. DO NOT do this if you are not a very competent Mooney pilot. You can try it at altitude a few times before you do it over the ground.. Most importantly, know you approach speed accurately. If you hear the stall horn over the fence, you will get down without sightseeing the airport before touchdown.
Thanks for making this. You should do one on landing with a strong crosswind as the "pucks" probably make that limitation a bit more challenging that with a hydraulic strut :)
That's a good idea. I find the rudder is more of a limitation than the "pucks". I run out of authority around 15kts direct crosswind. You can always compensate by adding more speed, but then that hurts you in the flare... Borrow from Peter to pay Paul.
This is a fantastic channel! Hello from Grand Junction CO! We get F-18s come into Walker Field all the time, its an air show all year. You should land on our long runway sometime
Congratulations and thanks for putting this out in spite of your new responsibilities! I’ve been following you for about a year while looking for a Charlie and finally connected and purchased a ‘63 last month- so this video comes at a great time! I’ll head out and do these exercises next time I’m up. Had a pretty good bounce during my transition training so you’re right about those doughnuts! Just confirming in your example your speeds were all in MPH? I’ve been crossing the threshold at about 65-70 kts.
Afirm, all those numbers were in MPH (early Mooney's used MPH to exaggerate their speed claims). Keep in mind I was pretty light when performing those maneuvers. Practice on your own and see what numbers you get. Good luck krex47!
Any chance you’d consider doing a video on density altitude. (Your engine leaning procedure for takeoff etc...). I flew my Mooney from Toronto to Santa Fe last March and when I departed Santa Fe, I was so consumed with whether or not I leaned the engine correctly for takeoff, as I’ve never had to lean for takeoff before, that I forgot to raise my landing gear after I rotated. I was climbing out at approx 150/min for a solid 90 seconds before I had realized my mistake. That error could have ended badly, but it highlights the point that if your not ever exposed to high density altitude flying/mountain flying, then things can get dangerous fast. Since all of my experience is from Toronto area flying, all of the airports out here are under 1000’. I’d love to see how you lean for various airport elevations and what your typical climb out ft/sec is. Thank-you sir, appreciate your videos. I just realized you released a Mountain Flying video 2 months ago, I’m going to watch that now.
Just as an aside, I’m working on my commercial maneuvers in my M20E if anyone needs speed/prop settings. What I’ve found helps a lot for smooth landings in my M20E is of course speed management but 2 pumps of flaps (half flaps) works better than full flaps. I use half flaps almost every normal landing just to not drop much. Also if you practice slow flight...even in winter...be sure you have the cowl flaps OPEN. 5 minutes in true slow flight and your engine will start to get warm. For short field landing with full flaps at full gross I come in about 70 to 75 over the numbers to land around the 2nd stripe. Be careful if you have gusts at those speeds full gross though. For a power off 180 I play in ground effect for accuracy....about 90 mph over the numbers with no flaps and I can hit the touchdown bars every time.
How do you hear the ForeFlight altitude thru your headset? How do you set it up to hear it? It’s like flight director. I’m getting my 1980 Mooney 201J this month. You need to put more videos out. I’m a huge fan!!! Thanks 😊
The audio callouts you're hearing are actually from my GTN-650. I also have the iPad paired to my A20's via Bluetooth but those callouts don't get captured by the GoPro as its direct to the headset.
This video came I at the right time. I started watching it yesterday and continued this morning before work. I'm hoping to close on a 65 Mooney M20C today. Been flying around in a J model and even the owner who is has been flying Mooneys for over 15 years doesn't always get it right. I've noticed when we land and the nose wheel touches the ground, there is some bouncing like a stiff spring.
Jerome, Glad I could help. Anytime that nose wheel touches the ground first, you came in too fast. Good luck on the 'C purchase. I think you'll love it.
@@gringoloco8576 Yes I've been landing on the mains and not nose since I got my M20C. What I was talking about is how the plane bounces a lot on those donuts. Plane is lovely but easy to get flooded when starting.
Thanks Man! I needed this. I'm an ATP with 18000 hrs. I'm currently on the Falcon 20 and we stay busy flying freight. This is my 23 yrs on the 20. My Mooney M20 E causes my heart to palpate! I've had it for 5 yrs and yesterday had the WORST landing in 40 yrs! PIO and came to a stop headed towards the grass!. I'm still shaking. I did go back for another lap and just flew " freestyle" and it was fine. The first one had a long final with full flaps and was very stable but I bounced and....... what flap setting do you recommend?
Thanks for the nice note Clay. I almost always land with full flaps but, I usually fly tight, steep, power-off approaches. If you want a more jet-friendly approach angle try half-flaps and a kiss of power. You don't need it though, the short bodies are pretty nimble in the pattern.
Odd that you land using the stall horn. Growing up I observed my Dad progress from a Piper Pacer to a Tri-Pacer to a Bonanza. The 1/2 mile grass strip took skill to take off and land. He used to tell me that those lightweight Piper highwings were really easy to take off and land given the short strip and obstacles at both ends of the runway (trees) but taking off and landing the Bonanza was not easy. He literally had to fly it down to the ground at 70 mph, flare as soon as possible and begin judiciously applying the brakes. .As a youngster I got used to it. It was much like a carnival ride. He always liked Mooneys but got a great deal on his Bonanza. It was a really great plane. He rented it to a woman pilot several consecutive years back in the late 1950's to race in the Powder Puff Derby. She won several times with Dad's plane.
Like most, I land using airspeed as my primary reference. In my experience I've seen a lot of people touch down before their plane was ready. This was a quick tip/trick to help others find that right airspeed. Cool story about your Dad. Depending on how heavily the pane was loaded 2,500ft in a Bonanza could be tight.
I'm not even a pilot but my grandad had mooneys and I miss him. He used to fly me all over the place. I think you need a newer mooney though. Go get an acclaim and show everyone whose boss!
In FAA private pilot checkride short field landing, you have to touch down within 100ft of runway threshold, while in the commerical checkride short field, you have to touch down in within 50ft. You have only 1 chance at it (although you are allowed to go around if you did not touch down). With as much ground effect as a Mooney has, would you say it is possible to pass either check ride in your Mooney?
Zhiheng, you're close... Double those numbers for the actual requirements - 200ft for the PPL and 100ft for the Commercial. I usually opt for a smooth touchdown over a precise touchdown but during a checkride I could trade one for the other. One other point worth mentioning, you can usually pick a desired touchdown point - be that a runway stripe, the numbers, or the TDZ or Aiming Point marker. You don't always have to use the threshold. Talk it over with your examiner.
@@ManandaMooney Thanks I passed my PPL many years ago but I had to rent a C172 for the short field landing part after failing it first in my Mooney. I feel that the PPL test requirement is simply unfair for Mooney with the wing very low to to ground hence lots of ground effect. I struggled so much trying to pass the short field landing in my Mooney, one time I went in on final so slow that stall horn sounded like 50ft from ground, and that scared off a (pretty junior) CFI who refused to fly with me again after that episode. I flew with in total 4 CFIs and spent 135 hours flight time before getting my PPL. Now I am pretty familiar with landing my Mooney, and the trick is still 1) precisely judge the height of ground to know the exact height to let the airplane slow down and stall 2) how quickly you can slow down the airplane when you reach that height. For 2), you are forced to come in in a steep angle with throttle pulled completely idle when you are still like 100ft from the ground (when you have "the runway made" as in the words of the CFI I learned it from, much steeper than PAPI), so as soon as you are in the height of (1), you can pull up the nose to maintain that height. This results in the most de-acceleration of the airplane speed, resulting in least amount of floating and more precise touch down. Failure to judge the height (1) will either result in stalling too high, hence a hard touchdown. That's just the way it is in a Mooney.
I believe you used 14 mph added to 56 mph IAS to get to 70 mph. I might suggest the safety margin factor (here 1.25) should be applied to CAS, not IAS. Some planes, with full flaps at low speeds, have large differences between IAS and CAS.
John, solid recommendations. While I was speaking from the standpoint of my Mooney in this video, many of these strategies can be applied to other aircraft. I would encourage everyone to practice these maneuvers with a CFI if there's any doubt in computations or capabilities.
I didn't, but could see how it appears that way in the video. Between the inside and outside cuts there's sometimes a break in the footage. My typical routine is: 2 pumps on downwind, another pump or 2 on base, full flaps on final. That said, there are always exceptions to the rule. If I'm making a short approach I'll get full flaps out ASAP.
Isn't the difficulty with landing a Mooney its tendency to float a long time on ground effect? The Mooney design minimizes drag, the landing gear is very short, and stall speed is higher than with similar planes, so ground effect is magnified. The pilot needs to pay special attention to speed, as the vid showed.
You speak the truth Ray’s Dad - that’s the principal reason. This is compounded by the donut landing gear and a limited Angle of Attack between landing nose first, and stalling. If you try to put the plane down before it’s ready, it will land nose first and bounce. What I presented here are a couple tricks to get the feel for landing a Mooney properly in a safe and progressive manner.
Thanks for noticing Ivan. Some of my earlier videos had a bit of electronic noise. In my more recent videos I isolated ground loops and added a de-noise filter.
@schnabel69 I never said Mooneys were Cessnas. If anything, I highlighted the major differences between the two. I've owned my Mooney for 7 years and have 1000 hours in it. Does that make me an expert? Probably not, but I never claimed to be. I put out this video to help others who in my experience fly approaches way to fast.
A stall is a stall. That's the primary reason we multiply VsO by 1.3 - for a safety net. If it's gusty, add a little more buffer. Far too many pilots believe that stalls occurs at a specific speed. It's all about load factor. You can quickly recover a stalling wing by unloading it - although I'd never encourage anyone to try that close to the ground.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
This is easily one of the best aviation channels on youtube right now. Your content is spot on! Please keep up the good work.
Thanks Benn, that really means a lot. I'll try to keep them coming.
@@ManandaMooney I'm so sad the content stopped. I see the plane moved out east.
Had no problem learning to land my Mooney since I once owned a Beech Sundowner which has the same rubber pucks for gear shocks.
Learned how to fly out of Greeley in ‘82. Got into Ultralights later and flew out of Erie at the Airpark and I remember eating at the Convair restaurant back in the day. Fun times
I'm ex-airline and currently a Citation captain with a little over 7,000 hours. The C and E model Mooney's continue to be one of my favorite types I've ever flown second to possibly the King Air B200. They are such fantastic little airplanes. I've always told my wife that if I ever bought an airplane it would certainly be a 60's Mooney. We also just welcomed our second child 3 months ago. I would love to fly these two kids around if finances and time every permitted. Great content!
Thanks Banshee365! It's hard to beat the value of a 60's Mooney. They're affordable, fast, and so much fun to fly. I hope you're able to sleep soon... we're just starting to again. You did this twice?! ;)
@@ManandaMooney our baby it was one year of crappy sleep lol. 4 months was a big change, then 8 months. Each time you get a few more hours sleep I’m a string.
Very nicely done! I’m hoping to become a Mooney driver someday so it is nice to see how landing a Mooney compares to what I’m used to in the C172.
What a beautiful backyard view
Wow congratulations on the new arrival. The most important job ever, being a parent.
Thanks MrSixString2k, it really is!
The three most important things for smooth landings are airspeed, airspeed, airspeed - great explanation.
Couldn't agree more! I fly a M20K Rocket and was apprehensive getting behind the yoke with all the stories I'd heard. As long as you're on the numbers with speed and give yourself enough room for a proper and stabilized approach, it's not any more difficult than landing my old Cherokee 235.
Thanks Austin Pilot. Happy to hear the technique works equally well for the big-block Mooney's too. Let's debunk the myth!
Great advice. I am restoring a 68 M20C. I am having difficulty locating CFI for training. Your videos really help. Thanks!
Glad to help. How's the restoration coming along?
Congratulations on your new son!! Thanks so much for doing this video. Totally goes along with how I am beginning to do my landings. Love your channel! Keep’em coming!
Thanks Daniel, Glad it was helpful!
Awesome channel! There is very little of Mooney-specific flight and maintenance/repair guidance on RUclips, so it is great to see you high-quality content! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Ukrsindicat! I was surprised by the lack of Mooney content while browsing RUclips. That's one of the reasons I started this channel.
I own a Mooney M20B , thank you for such a good information. I appreciate you.
Well done. I have owned three Mooney's over the years and used them a lot up and down the West Coast. Now have the K model with intercooler. Such a great IFR platform but never focused in on a landing technique. Found myself always fast attempting to avoid those "shear stalls". Your video spells it out for anyone flying one of the greatest 4 place retractable's in the air. Thanks for taking the time to make this video...
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE ADDITION TO YOUR FAMILY! Awesome video as always, Man and a Mooney.
Thanks Patrick! Appreciate the support :)
Love your first shot, Bokeh is dialed in to perfection! The m20j catches new pilots by surprise because the porpoise is a real eye opener.
Thanks Pilot-Plane-Coffee, I appreciate the continued support!
BIG Congrats to you and your wife with the new member of the family. He will be loved by his mother and father and beyond, like all your fans here on this platform that has made me, a better pilot (3800 hours). Thanks for your wisdom, insight as you are, a true pilot especially flying in the Rockies. Tusen Takk -
Thank you Tusen! I appreciate the well wishes and strong compliment :)
Awesome video. You would be an incredible instructor! Thanks for sharing
Thanks Big Sky Blessing. I've considered going for my CFI... I love teaching and sharing flying with others. Seems like a natural fit.
@@ManandaMooney it absolutely is! You could specialize in some cool training for folks. I have 800 hours and growing daily. I have learned a lot watching your videos
Congrats on the new addition! I’m getting the speed down but having a bit of trouble with height (compared to a Gulfstream) and letting the nose down softly. I did rewatch that landing several times , thanks.
Thanks BJ Love. I would imagine that's a very different sight picture (especially anything taller than a III). I'll make you a deal, you teach me to land a Gulfstream, I'll help you with the Mooney landings ;)
Congratulations on the latest addition to the family - two weeks huh? I thought you looked tired in the video! Good that you are back and am looking forward to your next vlog. Greetings from 🇬🇧!!
Thanks Midlife PPL, tired doesn't begin to describe it haha. Appreciate the well-wishes from across the pond :)
@@ManandaMooney my wife and I did shifts. It's a life saver...
I just happened upon your video. Great work, by the way. I learned to fly out of Vance Brand back in 1969. From what I saw the place has sure changed. I lived in Estes Park.
That's awesome. Thanks for the visit litemite100. It's definitely grown a lot since '69.
This video helped me immensely while learning to land my 64 E. Biggest thing to remember(for me)when flying so close to the bottom end of the envelope is to leave a touch of power in as long as possible. Had a nasty bounce while trying figure that out. The flaps and elevator need that accelerated air flow over them right up until touch down. If you take that away the plane will lose lift and plummet through ground effect and slam into the runway(if you’re not expecting it). Safe flying and keep the vids coming!
Thanks for letting me know Brian. Your comment was well timed... In my latest video I stall in the flare and have a good bounce. It's been a loooong time since I had one of those. Was a good wake up call.
I had an old WWII fighter pilot for a CFI and he taught "attitude" flying, i.e. put the aircraft in the correct attitude and airspeed and performance are almost automatic. On landing, I crossed the threshold and start gradually lifting the nose until the top of the cowl is touching the other end of the runway. Take a look at where your cowl was when you touched down.
That's essentially flying the AOA or Angle of Attack I referenced in the video. That works, but be careful doing that with changing weights and or updrafts/downdrafts.
Awesome. We’re getting my C back in the air in about 3 weeks. Can’t wait to get back out there and polish the rust off. Thanks for the video and congrats on the new addition!
Thanks Chris. Hope the video helped. Let me know how it goes after you get the 'C back in the air.
@@ManandaMooney Did the first post maintenance flight in the Mooney in 20 months yesterday. Was a little apprehensive as my landings in the local Cherokee rental I had used as a refresher were not great. But, did exactly as you described and greased both landings! Gave me a nice confidence boost. Should have it totally signed off in a few more days and I’ll be back in business. Thanks again!
@@chriseaves9762 Thanks for the follow-up. Glad you got your 'C back in the air and that the recommendations helped!
This was really great. Thank you for sharing!
My pleasure. Thanks for watching Ian
Congratulations on the boy! My M20k has been very challenging to land consistently. Great technique here! Speed control is absolutely key. Enjoying your channel. Nicely done!
Thanks Finch Road Farms. Speed is everything. Hopefully this technique helps you out.
Nice Landing / Airspeed Is King
First, congratulations to you and your wife. Love your channel and approach to flying.
Thanks Robert. I really appreciate it.
The Johnson Bar system must be the most technologically efficient aviation component in history.
Agreed Molon. I absolutely love it. Gear swings are a half-second affair
Excellent video, congrats on your newborn!
Thank you Noel!
The M20C is practically the only plane I've ever flown, about 500 hours now. I think my summariztion of the technique is a) be on speed and b) be patient. This got me thinking though, that I have fallen into the habit of flying it by feel; perhaps I need to go up and put some qantitative numbers around it as you demonstrate. Great channel, found it by accident.
John, it's always good to have some rough numbers in the back of your mind for various weights. Try it out and let me know what you think.
Really nice video. Much appreciated. Congrats on the birth of your child. Parted with our E after a long relationship. Great to see you dropping the gear in your nicely equipped bird. Enjoy!
Thanks Scott!
Great technique
Thank you Chris!
Congratulations on you new little one! I'am currently a student at Front Range & nearing solo, but I bought a '62 M20C & have hangared at 18V. Because of my situation, I get all sorts of horror stories about landing Mooneys. Although I go undaunted, it still causes me pause and wonder what I may have gotten myself into. My CFI says I'm learning landing a 172 pretty quickly, & he's excited to teach me in the Mooney as well, but hasn't flown one himself, so he's looking forward to the experience of learning himself. I'm going to send him the link to this, & see what he thinks. Seems to me to be some pretty sound & pragmatic advice, thanks!
Sean, while the Mooney might be a little more plane than you’re ready for, I think you did the right thing buying a plane you can grow into, rather than out of. Coming from a 172, here’s what you should know: 1) the Mooney will float 3x what a 172 will on landing. The Mooney wing sits much lower to the ground and ground effect is amplified. That, combined with a slippery airframe is what gives Mooney’s the tendency to float. 2) Your flare will be lower than you may expect. The squatty landing gear keeps the Mooney low to the ground. This will be apparent the first time you taxi. 3) Avoid touch and go’s. The way the Mooney trim system works makes touch and goes a lot to manage - especially for a student pilot. Whenever possible I would plan full stop landings and taxi back (obviously go around if a landing doesn’t look right) 4) Check gear down, check gear down, check gear down. Safe flying!
I have an M20E and am working on my commercial and CFI maneuvers in it. Let me know if your instructor or you need some assistance. I have all the speed and power settings for the maneuvers pretty down for the E model but your C won’t be much different (same airframe)
I have a few hundred hours in a Mooney M20F and certainly agree with your opinion that flying too fast is the most common mistake in landing a Mooney. I'll add that proper airspeed control on final is more important in a Mooney than in most other planes because it's so clean, and also the gear and flaps don't add as much drag as in other planes. If you're too fast on final, your only option is to raise the nose and slow down and if that doesn't work out then go around. I also have significant time in a Bonanza 36 and it's just the opposite, meaning that the gear and flaps add a huge amount of drag so it's very easy to fix a too-fast final.
You nailed it Malcolm. I’ve never flown the Bonanza but it’s on my “to-fly” list. I’m surprised to hear it’s the opposite of the Mooney. I’ve always imagined it would fly like a big M20. Thanks for sharing your insight.
Congrats on the new CoPilot... :) thanks for the great content! Regards from Germany...
Thanks you Sebastian. I really appreciate it!
Nice presentation of the topic... fantastic multi-camera views...
Best regards, - a -
Thanks AC I appreciate it!
Very nice quick video, reminds me of Mr Aviation 101 style ;) Hope to get out there soon!
Thanks Birdman! hope to see you soon.
Floating along in ground effect until the stall horn is blaring is certainly a great idea when you have a mile of runway ahead of you. I have owned three Mooneys and on a 1200 foot strip you don't have such a luxury. Final approach speed is critical to keep the landing short. Bleeding off excess speed in an extended float is just a correction for approaching too fast. If you know your plane, you should be down and stopped in a total of 800 feet or less. I was trained by a Mooney factory test pilot and he passed on a secret that requires some coordination, not to be tried by rookies. If you are hot and floating, you have to be right up on the controls and then dump the flaps. You MUST be ready because you are coming down. Attitude control is paramount., but if the remaining runway is running away, you have to get the wheels down. DO NOT do this if you are not a very competent Mooney pilot. You can try it at altitude a few times before you do it over the ground.. Most importantly, know you approach speed accurately. If you hear the stall horn over the fence, you will get down without sightseeing the airport before touchdown.
VERY NICE.......Thanks for posting
Thanks Lawnpro KING!
Congratulations! My problem is the height of the runway seems to randomly change from time to time :-)
Thanks Mark! Hahah those sneaky runways, they'll getcha
Hi. How about to low the pressure in tires to match balance for take off and smooth landing where low pressure tires get first touch?
Thanks for making this. You should do one on landing with a strong crosswind as the "pucks" probably make that limitation a bit more challenging that with a hydraulic strut :)
That's a good idea. I find the rudder is more of a limitation than the "pucks". I run out of authority around 15kts direct crosswind. You can always compensate by adding more speed, but then that hurts you in the flare... Borrow from Peter to pay Paul.
This is a fantastic channel! Hello from Grand Junction CO! We get F-18s come into Walker Field all the time, its an air show all year. You should land on our long runway sometime
Thank you Billy. I need to get out to Junction. I thought about flying in there for some peaches last summer but never got around to it.
@@ManandaMooney Palisade peaches!! Love your videos man
Congratulations and thanks for putting this out in spite of your new responsibilities! I’ve been following you for about a year while looking for a Charlie and finally connected and purchased a ‘63 last month- so this video comes at a great time! I’ll head out and do these exercises next time I’m up. Had a pretty good bounce during my transition training so you’re right about those doughnuts! Just confirming in your example your speeds were all in MPH? I’ve been crossing the threshold at about 65-70 kts.
Afirm, all those numbers were in MPH (early Mooney's used MPH to exaggerate their speed claims). Keep in mind I was pretty light when performing those maneuvers. Practice on your own and see what numbers you get. Good luck krex47!
Any chance you’d consider doing a video on density altitude. (Your engine leaning procedure for takeoff etc...). I flew my Mooney from Toronto to Santa Fe last March and when I departed Santa Fe, I was so consumed with whether or not I leaned the engine correctly for takeoff, as I’ve never had to lean for takeoff before, that I forgot to raise my landing gear after I rotated. I was climbing out at approx 150/min for a solid 90 seconds before I had realized my mistake. That error could have ended badly, but it highlights the point that if your not ever exposed to high density altitude flying/mountain flying, then things can get dangerous fast. Since all of my experience is from Toronto area flying, all of the airports out here are under 1000’. I’d love to see how you lean for various airport elevations and what your typical climb out ft/sec is. Thank-you sir, appreciate your videos. I just realized you released a Mountain Flying video 2 months ago, I’m going to watch that now.
Funny you should ask; I’ve actually got a leaning video in the editing cue. I’ll try to get that out shortly.
Good job! Thank you!
Just as an aside, I’m working on my commercial maneuvers in my M20E if anyone needs speed/prop settings. What I’ve found helps a lot for smooth landings in my M20E is of course speed management but 2 pumps of flaps (half flaps) works better than full flaps. I use half flaps almost every normal landing just to not drop much. Also if you practice slow flight...even in winter...be sure you have the cowl flaps OPEN. 5 minutes in true slow flight and your engine will start to get warm.
For short field landing with full flaps at full gross I come in about 70 to 75 over the numbers to land around the 2nd stripe. Be careful if you have gusts at those speeds full gross though.
For a power off 180 I play in ground effect for accuracy....about 90 mph over the numbers with no flaps and I can hit the touchdown bars every time.
Thanks Gringo. Great information!
How do you hear the ForeFlight altitude thru your headset? How do you set it up to hear it? It’s like flight director.
I’m getting my 1980 Mooney 201J this month. You need to put more videos out. I’m a huge fan!!! Thanks 😊
I'm guessing he has the bluetooth version of the A20. Link up your iPad and it calls out all manner of good data.
The audio callouts you're hearing are actually from my GTN-650. I also have the iPad paired to my A20's via Bluetooth but those callouts don't get captured by the GoPro as its direct to the headset.
This video came I at the right time. I started watching it yesterday and continued this morning before work. I'm hoping to close on a 65 Mooney M20C today. Been flying around in a J model and even the owner who is has been flying Mooneys for over 15 years doesn't always get it right. I've noticed when we land and the nose wheel touches the ground, there is some bouncing like a stiff spring.
Jerome, Glad I could help. Anytime that nose wheel touches the ground first, you came in too fast. Good luck on the 'C purchase. I think you'll love it.
I own an M20E, there is no way you should ever be landing on the nose wheel. Keep that nose up and make sure you go on the mains!
@@gringoloco8576 Yes I've been landing on the mains and not nose since I got my M20C. What I was talking about is how the plane bounces a lot on those donuts. Plane is lovely but easy to get flooded when starting.
@@jeromes5141 use 2 pumps half flaps instead of full if possible. That will smooth out the landings. Less likely to bounce.
@@gringoloco8576 I can try that. One thing to note, my Mooney takes 3.5 pumps for full flaps. Manual says 4 for full flaps but it's full at 3.5.
Butter!
It is very easy to land any Mooney... - they are perfectly easy to contol, just fly by the numbers! :-)
Thanks Man! I needed this.
I'm an ATP with 18000 hrs.
I'm currently on the Falcon 20 and we stay busy flying freight. This is my 23 yrs on the 20. My Mooney M20 E causes my heart to palpate!
I've had it for 5 yrs and yesterday had the WORST landing in 40 yrs! PIO and came to a stop headed towards the grass!. I'm still shaking. I did go back for another lap and just flew " freestyle" and it was fine. The first one had a long final with full flaps and was very stable but I bounced and....... what flap setting do you recommend?
Thanks for the nice note Clay. I almost always land with full flaps but, I usually fly tight, steep, power-off approaches. If you want a more jet-friendly approach angle try half-flaps and a kiss of power. You don't need it though, the short bodies are pretty nimble in the pattern.
congratulations : ) love your videos.
Thank you so much!
Congratulations. Nice video too
Thanks Eclipser2004!
Odd that you land using the stall horn. Growing up I observed my Dad progress from a Piper Pacer to a Tri-Pacer to a Bonanza. The 1/2 mile grass strip took skill to take off and land. He used to tell me that those lightweight Piper highwings were really easy to take off and land given the short strip and obstacles at both ends of the runway (trees) but taking off and landing the Bonanza was not easy. He literally had to fly it down to the ground at 70 mph, flare as soon as possible and begin judiciously applying the brakes. .As a youngster I got used to it. It was much like a carnival ride.
He always liked Mooneys but got a great deal on his Bonanza. It was a really great plane. He rented it to a woman pilot several consecutive years back in the late 1950's to race in the Powder Puff Derby. She won several times with Dad's plane.
Like most, I land using airspeed as my primary reference. In my experience I've seen a lot of people touch down before their plane was ready. This was a quick tip/trick to help others find that right airspeed. Cool story about your Dad. Depending on how heavily the pane was loaded 2,500ft in a Bonanza could be tight.
I'm not even a pilot but my grandad had mooneys and I miss him. He used to fly me all over the place. I think you need a newer mooney though. Go get an acclaim and show everyone whose boss!
Ha, that would be nice... For now I'm stuck with a lowly C model. She's been good to me so no complaints.
In FAA private pilot checkride short field landing, you have to touch down within 100ft of runway threshold, while in the commerical checkride short field, you have to touch down in within 50ft. You have only 1 chance at it (although you are allowed to go around if you did not touch down). With as much ground effect as a Mooney has, would you say it is possible to pass either check ride in your Mooney?
Zhiheng, you're close... Double those numbers for the actual requirements - 200ft for the PPL and 100ft for the Commercial. I usually opt for a smooth touchdown over a precise touchdown but during a checkride I could trade one for the other. One other point worth mentioning, you can usually pick a desired touchdown point - be that a runway stripe, the numbers, or the TDZ or Aiming Point marker. You don't always have to use the threshold. Talk it over with your examiner.
@@ManandaMooney Thanks I passed my PPL many years ago but I had to rent a C172 for the short field landing part after failing it first in my Mooney. I feel that the PPL test requirement is simply unfair for Mooney with the wing very low to to ground hence lots of ground effect. I struggled so much trying to pass the short field landing in my Mooney, one time I went in on final so slow that stall horn sounded like 50ft from ground, and that scared off a (pretty junior) CFI who refused to fly with me again after that episode. I flew with in total 4 CFIs and spent 135 hours flight time before getting my PPL. Now I am pretty familiar with landing my Mooney, and the trick is still 1) precisely judge the height of ground to know the exact height to let the airplane slow down and stall 2) how quickly you can slow down the airplane when you reach that height. For 2), you are forced to come in in a steep angle with throttle pulled completely idle when you are still like 100ft from the ground (when you have "the runway made" as in the words of the CFI I learned it from, much steeper than PAPI), so as soon as you are in the height of (1), you can pull up the nose to maintain that height. This results in the most de-acceleration of the airplane speed, resulting in least amount of floating and more precise touch down. Failure to judge the height (1) will either result in stalling too high, hence a hard touchdown. That's just the way it is in a Mooney.
I have never sat inside a Mooney, and want to get an idea...how i may fit, can i ask how tall you are?
Hi @AutoLabPro I'm 6' 3"
BTW Cheers for the new guy!
Thanks a lot!
I believe you used 14 mph added to 56 mph IAS to get to 70 mph. I might suggest the safety margin factor (here 1.25) should be applied to CAS, not IAS. Some planes, with full flaps at low speeds, have large differences between IAS and CAS.
John, solid recommendations. While I was speaking from the standpoint of my Mooney in this video, many of these strategies can be applied to other aircraft. I would encourage everyone to practice these maneuvers with a CFI if there's any doubt in computations or capabilities.
Did you pump full flaps down all at once?
I didn't, but could see how it appears that way in the video. Between the inside and outside cuts there's sometimes a break in the footage. My typical routine is: 2 pumps on downwind, another pump or 2 on base, full flaps on final. That said, there are always exceptions to the rule. If I'm making a short approach I'll get full flaps out ASAP.
Congratulations
Thanks Jim!
Isn't the difficulty with landing a Mooney its tendency to float a long time on ground effect? The Mooney design minimizes drag, the landing gear is very short, and stall speed is higher than with similar planes, so ground effect is magnified. The pilot needs to pay special attention to speed, as the vid showed.
You speak the truth Ray’s Dad - that’s the principal reason. This is compounded by the donut landing gear and a limited Angle of Attack between landing nose first, and stalling. If you try to put the plane down before it’s ready, it will land nose first and bounce. What I presented here are a couple tricks to get the feel for landing a Mooney properly in a safe and progressive manner.
I like how quite your electronics in the plane. Great video btw
Thanks for noticing Ivan. Some of my earlier videos had a bit of electronic noise. In my more recent videos I isolated ground loops and added a de-noise filter.
Kid IFR rated yet?
... another month or two. The coordination's not quite there yet ;)
Imagine landing a Panthera, it would float for ever cos hardly any drag.
True, those a slippery little planes.
How to land a Mooney: have $100k
*Had
This is total rubbish. Clearly this guy is low time in Mooney’s Mooney’s aren’t Cessnas
@schnabel69 I never said Mooneys were Cessnas. If anything, I highlighted the major differences between the two. I've owned my Mooney for 7 years and have 1000 hours in it. Does that make me an expert? Probably not, but I never claimed to be. I put out this video to help others who in my experience fly approaches way to fast.
YOU FLY A MOONEY THAT SLOW AND HIT A WIND SHEER YOU ARE NOSE DOWN AND IN THE GROUND !!!!
A stall is a stall. That's the primary reason we multiply VsO by 1.3 - for a safety net. If it's gusty, add a little more buffer. Far too many pilots believe that stalls occurs at a specific speed. It's all about load factor. You can quickly recover a stalling wing by unloading it - although I'd never encourage anyone to try that close to the ground.