Another real world test. I can buy both lenses for the price of one APO lens & certainly for my street/landscape work I don't think I would see a difference. I was looking at filling these ranges which present I use the M lenses but now happy to buy these.
The. new non-APO lenses are very good. The APO lenses have the advantage of being more useful on future generations of L-mount cameras if they have greater resolution (smaller pixels). It would be fun to test the non-APO lenses on the Leica digital CL (24 MP APS-C sensor). The Summilux-TL 35 mm f/1.4 and Macro-Elmarit-TL 60 mm f/2.8 are very impressive and relatively lightweight lenses for their size (the 35 is especially good).
I bought the SL2-S with the 50 Summicron SL and I am very amazed from the image output but for portraits, it is to clinical sharp, so it is more for commercial fashion or product photography and also good for videos!
I am so glad that you recommended to me to wait on getting an SL series camera kit from Leica, because it looks like so many good things will come out from Leica this and next year (the 100th anniversary of Leica’s being commercially available). Right now, it looks like my SL kit will include an SL-3, a 16-35, a 100-400 with extender, and a Noctilux 75 f. 1.25. The 35 and 50 you tested here just might fill out the bill. On your video: Leica’s Portugal factory makes a lot of precision optics for Leica, no problems there. I think the metal casing of the 35 and 50 are worth the cost if you put these lenses to a lot of use in difficult environments, as in reportage. Then there’s the resale value. You did a nice demo of the lenses (with a model who had gorgeous eyes!). I look forward to your reviews of the upcoming Leica gear. Thank you, as always.
Great video as always! I picked up my 50mm copy today. have the 24-90mm and think tis lighter model will be a great compliment when walking around. I tested it out in various light today when driving from Oslo to the west coast over the snowy mountains, and was very very positively surprised by their performance. I could not afford the APO anyhow, so really hay with it on my SL2.
These lenses seem like a terrific addition to the SL line. However, I do have a big problem with the 28-70/2.8 SL. That is, it does not perform as well at close distances. The 24-90 does a terrific job, even though it is on the large side. I predict that these Summicron ASPH lenses will perform just fine at close distances, as they are modern primes, after all. But, if you get a chance, it might be a test worth doing.
Thanks Tom, you are making my Easter weekend :) I work hard to get these videos out to the community and getting positive feedback is the engine of my motivation. Happy Easter!
I always look forward to your equipment videos, more for seeing your photography than for considering for purchase the specific equipment. Thank you again. I liked your discussion tidbits about working with Stephanie. I liked your city scapes. I liked your dismissiveness of the technical lens specs, favoring instead the real world use.
No native lenses for my SL2s as yet. I`ve been using M lenses however , there will be now after viewing your review. Thank you. The APO`s were always way over the top for my web based needs but these will do nicely .Looking forward to a 90 maybe .
Well, that was a fabulously done comparison and very useful, as are the community comments. I recently joined the Leica camp with a Q2M and love it and it got me thinking about getting an SL2S. Reading the comments, I am now not so sure. Maybe a Fuji XH2S or Nikon Z6ii for better value? The problem is weighing the superior Leica build and UI. Anyways, thank you mathphotographer for your continued contributions to our knowledge.
Thank you Tony, you cannot go wrong with a Leica SL2-S and the Summicron or Apo-Summicron lenses, it will give you terrific images :) Welcome to the community!
IMHO, a lens at a price tag over USD 2k should have no CA like at 17:56. That’s what Nikon nailed with the Z system, specifically with the Z lenses. If you get a used Z6 or new Z6II and the triple Z 35, 50 and 85 1.8 S you get a complete system for about the price of the Leica body, all lenses CR and distortion free, edge to edge sharp and no vignetting (lens correction on) wide open. Weather proof. Interesting side effect to whom it may concern: the mirrorless systems of Canon (RF) and Nikon (Z) make ugly sun stars, whereas (can only talk for Nikon) the F-mount lenses make beautiful ones.
While chromatic aberration can be corrected in post, the correction is often not perfect especially if there are several purple and green fringing. I’ve been using the APO SL 35mm and the assurance that there will not be fringing when you shoot and the amount of time saved from correcting fringing in post makes the APO worth the price difference for me.
You are 100% correct! Man does not live on sharpness alone. Besides, almost all modern mirrorless lenses are "sharp". Those people who rely on fixing CAs in post will eventually be disappointed. We are spoiled by modern lenses. My Nikkor 24-120mm has fewer chromatic aberrations at 35mm and 50mm than those Summicrons. I also think it is quite possible the S Line 35mm and 50mm 1.8s are superior in every way to the "base" Summicrons and that just shouldn't be the case.
Wonder will Leica make the hold family for F1.8 lens a Leica version ? With the 100mm F2.8 Marco, and i have a feeling that there is a 135mm F2.8 version in the housing family.
How does the rendering of the jewellery just outside of the depth of field compare? I always find this one of the biggest challenges for a lens, as you can get aberrations that sometimes are just not easy to correct in post-processing, or such attempts will render the image dull where you want it to shine.
this seems to be a missed opportunity. there's little to no doubt that the new Leica lenses will be outstanding performers in terms of sharpness...i was expecting a comparison in terms of Longitudinal CA wide open to highlight the advantages of apochromatic design...but alas it's not here.
Good point, Paul. I was shooting with spot or center metering, getting the metering right on the model's face and clearly over-exposing the background.
If Leica's SL2 autofocus system wasnt so behind every popular brand on the market I'd have still been a Leica shooter! It's sad that even my iphone focuses better! I loved everything about the system but shoot wide apertures and eg active kids the system just couldnt manage! I wish they would be more forthcoming about the focus system! Tracking left and right up and down is fine but it doesnt track forward motion in af-c
The 2 'new' Leica lenses have the _same_ formulae as the Panasonic Lumix S 35/1.8 and 50/1.8 lenses, except in metal housings with significantly greater cost.
Great comparison review as always As I own the compact 24-70 f2.8, I don’t see the point of purchasing additional F2 lenses, I wish they were f1.4’s being a worthwhile reason to buy them as well as differentiate them from the earlier APO lenses All the very best to you Matt
Thank you Ronald, always appreciate your feedback. If you are happy with your 24-70 lens, then all good. For those who want to shoot with primes, these Summicrons provide a really good image quality for a competitive price. All the best and always good to get your comments and thoughts, my friend :)
Okay Math, good video, proper test, but it need some comment to set things (more) straight (take a cup of coffee cause this need some additional info) 2 weeks ago the Leica Store in Miami did an introduction video on those lenses and they were comparing these between the cheaper Lumix versions in words only, same focal length but 1.8 (maybe you have read my comment) In that video they were discussing the rumours that these lenses were rebranded Lumix lenses (spoiler , they are) They said (in their/Leica defence) that a lot of lenses have parts of other companies, which is true, like cars, refrigerators, phones, etc but has no meaning. But I asked the question, how much % Leica is needed to still call it a Leica lens, and the answer of course, will never be told, by them. A week later I had a discussion with Matt (Mr. Leica) about these lenses and later I had the urge to find out. And I am glad you started with the MFT charts cause there lays the answer. If you take a look at the Lumix MTF charts, who are a bit different in showing the specs, you will notice that the characteristics of the Lumix lenses (curves of the MFT charts) are almost identical. The Leica's are slightly better but they are branded as F2 whereas the Lumix are F1.8. (it is all about wave form of the MFT chart) So if you would have a F2 chart of the Lumix it would even be more clear. These lenses are the same with the difference that the Leica lenses are more robust and from metal. Now it is anybodies choice to pay around 1500 euro for a metal case but that is what you get. Now back to your test, and I am glad (and hope you did this on purpose cause IMO you are a smart guy) you did this with the 24MP Sl2-S Cause with the SL (high MP) the difference would be more. Lenses that perform less and vintage lenses in particular, will perform much better on low MP sensors/cameras than high MP (hope you agree with that cause it is story on itself) So to close this comment. For a SL2-S and SL2 go for the Lumix but if you can afford it go for the Apo. Thanks for sharing an happy Easter my friend
I understand what I paid for in APO lenses, but in these lenses I sense some kind of cheating. I might be wrong about that. At the end of the day, the Leica body is indeed better than the Panasonic, but that doesn't justify a price increase of several times for me.
Thanks RS, like always, you are the best informed community member on my channel which I always appreciate. I generally think these are good lenses. Of course, they are embedded in the L-Alliance community which means Panasonic and Sigma lenses are just around the corner :) People care about lenses being Leica branded and these lenses are from Leica. Will you get the same or almost the same from Panasonic and Sigma? Of course you will. If people can afford to spend 3k more money, the APOs are the benchmark as said in the video. Enjoy the Easter weekend and happy shooting :)
I understand what you wrote, but, I tried the Lumix 50mm f1.8 lens a few months ago and I now own the Leica Summicron-SL 50, so I can compare photos from both on my SL2. While I have not done side by side testing of the same scenes, to my eyes, at f2, the Leica seems sharper. The dropoff from in focus to out of focus areas at f2 on the Leica also seems to be more pleasing. Finally, and this is important to me and probably to many others as well, is the question of weather sealing. As far as I understand, the Lumix is weather resistant, but it's not recommended to take it out into a steady rain. With the Leica, I understand that they can be fully used in the rain and, in fact, I have done this with the 50mm lens with no problem and full confidence that both camera and lens will be OK. That makes the Leica lenses much more useful to me.
@@howardkastner5843 Thanks for you comment. Good contribution. If water sealing is of great concern to one, that would be indeed a solid reason to go for the Leica version. Also when you are Photographer who operates in environments where Lenses and cameras are easily damaged (e.g. reporters) the Leica would be the better choice. On behalf of the MTF charts, I have to admit it is not the holy grail but in these circumstances it will reveal a lot about the similarity of both lenses. MTF charts can also be useful to see what one can expect from a lens and if ones copy serious deviate one could have a bad copy. And indeed one should do a proper test (starting at F2) with a special test chart over the range to get it even more sorted out. My point was and is, I think the optics are both Panasonic, which is not bad, and the lenses are not bad either, but one have think twice where the extra 1500 euro/dollar are spend on, IMO partly on a better construction, and partly on the Leica name. Panasonic and Leica do a lot together, e.g. think back of the Tower Jazz sensors in the past (which is partly owned by Panasonic)
Beste Rob, Valide punten, echter een MTF kaart zegt niet alles over een lens zoals je weet. Rendering van een lens zegt meer dan alleen scherpte, contrast etc. En Matt had hier een betere vergelijk kunnen doen IMO. Chears!
In meiner doch langen Portrait-Zeit habe ich die Erfahrung gemacht, dass keine Frau jung oder etwas älter, gerne ihre Hautunreitheiten, Falten bzw. das Make-up im Gesicht sehen wollen! Meine Wahl dazu seit vielen Jahren, ist ungeschlagen das ZEISS Softar I !!! Zufriedene Mienen, danken es Ihnen!
Haha :) Danke Wolf Rainer, sehr guter Kommentar! Es ist einfach, mit Photoshop "Smooth Skin" die Hautunreinheiten wegzuzaubern, aber das habe ich bewusst hier nicht gemacht. Selbstverständlich werden für eine Model Sedcard entsprechende Hautprobleme entfernt :)
@@mathphotographer Es ist doch so viel einfacher, wenn man sich die „Nacharbeiten“ ersparen kann! Außerdem glaube ich nicht, dass ein steriles „Post Processing am PC mit Photoshop mit den Gebrauch des Zeiss SOFTAR I vergleichbar sind! Probieren geht über studieren! 😉
I think Leica realizes non-M shooters are getting more price conscious, but then there are so many lenses one can use on the SL2. Anyway, good value for Leica lovers. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Wilfried - these lenses are good value for money. Its actually good that Leica produces some lower price tag lenses which are still very good and valuable.
Likely yes. There is a new Leica Vario-Elmar-SL 100-400 f/5-6.3 with a very competitive price tag so I think that Leica is currently manufacturing various more competitive lenses.
Would have been interesting to see a comparison for each focal length between APO and non APO… The photographs you show have nothing thrilling about usual 3D effect that we often see from Leica lenses. I really think that either you go for the highest quality and pay for it or you get the sigma series and same even more money for the same result.
@@mathphotographer they are far too expensive compared to the competition for same normal result. The APO are exceptional and you pay for it. These two lenses didn’t convince me yet. If I have the opportunity to test them, for sure I will
@@DidierMOULINPhotography Hmm ... good point if you leave the Leica universe and compare with other brands. Within the Leica world they are definitely at the much lower price end but outside the Leica world ... yes, you can find similar lenses significantly cheaper from Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc. Fair argument! And you are also right on the APOs: here you pay for superb quality and that is a pro decision argument.
@@mathphotographer indeed! Thanks for your fair-play I appreciate. Without looking at Nikon Canon Sony… just staying in the L Mount alliance. The lumix series is I think a bit behind the Leica Non APO in terms of chromatic aberrations, but the sigma I series is incredibly interesting, more over in this alliance where those who come from Leica M word will appreciate the manual aperture ring for instance and the small size, too. Look at the 90 f/2.8 or the 35 f/2… and more recently the 50 f/2… this is a clear interesting alternative to non APO glasses in the L mount.
Apo-Summicrons are always a bit better and significantly more expensive. The score when it comes to sharpness, background render and contrast. But in real live shootings, you will also be very happy with the Summicrons. Their performance is really good.
I think mathphotographer has done an excellent job showing us the differences between these two product lines, but Im very sad. I want to be blown away by Leica quality, I'll pay double or more for real, discernible optical improvements and these lenses are not blowing me away. Isn't it amazing that companies like Nikon and Canon are producing comparable products for far less! The Nikkor S line 35mm and 50mm lenses are stunning in comparison the Leica variants, at 1/2 to 1/5 the price! This really sucks. I've been a Leicaphile 40 years. My first Leica SLR was the R4s and I've owned a Leica M3 double stroke and M6TTL and many lenses. Back in the '80s I felt like you could really tell the difference between Leica and their Japanese rivals, now not so much. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the SL2s Reporter! I drool every time I see it, but the look and feel just isn't enough... I need value for money too. I know this doesn't really matter to Leica, they have buyers lined up on waiting lists to buy their products and that's great. I just wish I could justify buying these products, based on quantifiable quality and not just simply their luxury value. 😞
Hi Ed, many thanks for your comment, much appreciated. I hear your frustration. You pay more for Leica gear than what you pay for Nikon and Canon gear, your comment is spot on. But I personally feel, if I may, that when I shoot with my Leica SL2-S Reporter, I have this special look & feel appearance. I love shooting with Leica although I am conscious that you get more for your money from other brands. Maybe I am fooled by my admiration for the camera brand who invented 35mm film (Oscar Barnack in 1923), but when I shoot with Leica gear it feels right and the image quality and look of images is what I am looking for. With all due respect, you by no means have to share my passion, but when I shoot for jobs and clients, I shoot with various brands, not necessarily Leica. I shoot with Nikon, Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Sony, etc. - just have a look at my channel and you get the vibes. But shooting with my Leica gear makes me happy in a way I do not achieve somewhere else :) Happy shooting for you, Ed, and many thanks for your thoughtful comment.
@@mathphotographer I totally get it! I too get the same feeling when I shoot with a Leica. I had an SL2 with the 24-90mm for about 2 months, 2 years ago. I loved the feel and it made me smile every time I picked it up... except for the weight and girth. 😊 But, I too am a professional and when I shot with it for clients they never noticed. Worse yet, when I compared side by side results from my D850 and F mount 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8, the Nikon images were sharper. I know, I know... apple to oranges comparison. But still... I couldn't ignore that outcome, so I never bought the SL2. I wear $1000 Viberg boots when $100.00 boots would suffice. I wear a Grand Seiko when a Seiko would suffice. So I get it and to reiterate, I WANT an SL2s Reporter! This discussion/debate will never end and I guess I'm ok with that. Cheers
@@EdAb I am totally ok with that too, cheers :) By the way, if you shoot Nikon, go for the Z9, I have many videos on the Z9 on my channel and this is where Nikon really shines with lots of excellent new Z-Mount lenses ...
@@mathphotographer Ha ha... I already have a Z9 😆 I also have the 14-30mm, 24-120mm and FTZ adaptor. I still use my D850s more. My favorite lenses for commercial assignments are the PC-E line. I have the 19mm, 45mm and 85mm (never really warmed up to the 24mm, so I sold it) and I find I prefer to use them with an optical finder. When the Z9 came out, my thought was that I'd prefer the focus peeking option, but that hasn't been the case. EVFs don't really impress me after decades of practice with OVFs. I'll probably prefer EVFs someday, but for now (except when doing video) I'm still an optical kind of guy. A few months ago I asked if you'd be willing to do a comparison between the Z9 with a 24-120mm and the SL2 with a 24-90mm. I gave back my loaner SL2 before I bought the Z9, so I never had a chance to do that. How about it, will you do the comparison for us? 😃
I believe these 'new' lenses are for those Leica SL-body owners who would normally buy a re-branded lens but want a metal body and that 'Leica' badge which is fine; Leica is just trying to get a cut of that market.
Thanks for the review of these new lenses. It turned out a great video. The photos are really sharp and beautiful, but even on the RUclips screen I can see significant aberration in the images. This is especially evident in the branches against the bright sky. Obviously these are good lenses, but they are quite ordinary in my opinion. The most attractive thing about them is the reduced weight and price. But if you compare with similar lenses from Panasonic, the price doesn't seem attractive anymore. I've decided for myself that I'd rather keep using APO
The APOs are better, no doubt. But they also cost you 3k more ;) The aberrations are visible in the background as I mentioned in the video. With the APOs you have less problems in post. But 3k per lens is a lot of money for most photographers. That's where the Summicrons come in ...
@@mathphotographer +3000K is certainly not a small amount of money But I think a lot of Leica photographers have a tendency to be perfectionistic and spendy otherwise they would choose a Sony system... The new Summicrons just don't seem like such a bargain because of the availability of LUMIX lenses, unlike the APO which has no counterparts. I'm sure these lenses will find their buyers. However, for me it's not an obvious choice. If you want to save your money, you can buy identical but not as nice looking Panasonic lenses for $500-600 If you buy both new Leica 35 and 50 lenses - you'll pay about the same money as one APO and carry the same weight (and constantly agonise over lens choice)))) You could just buy one better APO 35 or 50 lens and be happy 🙂 That's my unpretentious view
@@DerStiglitz One Apo-Summicron for two Summicrons ... a fair calculation :) If for a buyer the focal length preference is clear, 35 versus 50, then this is a good argument and likely also a good choice.
They are aligned with the L-Mount alliance of course, thanks Duc. Having said that, Leica produces a lot in Portugal so I think these are genuine Leica :)
Chromatic aberrations and nervous looking bokeh. The look of the bokeh wasn't that great IMHO, especially for portraits as it stands too much. Still, these look like pretty good value lenses.
Leica has a factory in Portugal run by Leica techs, so these new lenses are made by Leica not Sigma or Panasonic!!!
Another real world test. I can buy both lenses for the price of one APO lens & certainly for my street/landscape work I don't think I would see a difference. I was looking at filling these ranges which present I use the M lenses but now happy to buy these.
I bought the 50, it’s really nice.
The. new non-APO lenses are very good. The APO lenses have the advantage of being more useful on future generations of L-mount cameras if they have greater resolution (smaller pixels).
It would be fun to test the non-APO lenses on the Leica digital CL (24 MP APS-C sensor). The Summilux-TL 35 mm f/1.4 and Macro-Elmarit-TL 60 mm f/2.8 are very impressive and relatively lightweight lenses for their size (the 35 is especially good).
I bought the SL2-S with the 50 Summicron SL and I am very amazed from the image output but for portraits, it is to clinical sharp, so it is more for commercial fashion or product photography and also good for videos!
I am so glad that you recommended to me to wait on getting an SL series camera kit from Leica, because it looks like so many good things will come out from Leica this and next year (the 100th anniversary of Leica’s being commercially available). Right now, it looks like my SL kit will include an SL-3, a 16-35, a 100-400 with extender, and a Noctilux 75 f. 1.25. The 35 and 50 you tested here just might fill out the bill.
On your video: Leica’s Portugal factory makes a lot of precision optics for Leica, no problems there. I think the metal casing of the 35 and 50 are worth the cost if you put these lenses to a lot of use in difficult environments, as in reportage. Then there’s the resale value. You did a nice demo of the lenses (with a model who had gorgeous eyes!). I look forward to your reviews of the upcoming Leica gear. Thank you, as always.
Many thanks, David. Great comment and much appreciated! There is more Leica gear to come, I know their pipeline and 2023 will be a great year :)
Leica have their own factory in Portugal.
Great video as always! I picked up my 50mm copy today. have the 24-90mm and think tis lighter model will be a great compliment when walking around. I tested it out in various light today when driving from Oslo to the west coast over the snowy mountains, and was very very positively surprised by their performance.
I could not afford the APO anyhow, so really hay with it on my SL2.
Get used APO summicrons if you are buying these summicrons new. Some can be cheaper or same price
@@allena3430 Didnt want the APO anyhow. wanted a lighter lens for walk around. Am perfectly happy with my purchase 😃👍🏻
The Summicrons are so good, you will continue to be happy with them :)
@@allena3430a used apo is much more expensive than e new aspherical
These lenses seem like a terrific addition to the SL line. However, I do have a big problem with the 28-70/2.8 SL. That is, it does not perform as well at close distances. The 24-90 does a terrific job, even though it is on the large side.
I predict that these Summicron ASPH lenses will perform just fine at close distances, as they are modern primes, after all. But, if you get a chance, it might be a test worth doing.
Close ups at close distances works well with these new Summicrons, thanks Karim.
No image comparisons to the APOs? Surely that is much more important to do than comparing on-paper specs?
I usually click "like" before even watching through the video 😁 so far, I haven't gone wrong, outstanding level of information, as usual! Many thanks!
Thanks Tom, you are making my Easter weekend :) I work hard to get these videos out to the community and getting positive feedback is the engine of my motivation. Happy Easter!
I always look forward to your equipment videos, more for seeing your photography than for considering for purchase the specific equipment. Thank you again. I liked your discussion tidbits about working with Stephanie. I liked your city scapes. I liked your dismissiveness of the technical lens specs, favoring instead the real world use.
Thanks you so much, Barry. Your feedback makes my day :)
No native lenses for my SL2s as yet. I`ve been using M lenses however , there will be now after viewing your review. Thank you. The APO`s were always way over the top for my web based needs but these will do nicely .Looking forward to a 90 maybe .
Thanks Michael, these Summicrons are really good prime lenses, you cannot go wrong with them.
Well, that was a fabulously done comparison and very useful, as are the community comments. I recently joined the Leica camp with a Q2M and love it and it got me thinking about getting an SL2S. Reading the comments, I am now not so sure. Maybe a Fuji XH2S or Nikon Z6ii for better value? The problem is weighing the superior Leica build and UI. Anyways, thank you mathphotographer for your continued contributions to our knowledge.
Thank you Tony, you cannot go wrong with a Leica SL2-S and the Summicron or Apo-Summicron lenses, it will give you terrific images :) Welcome to the community!
@@mathphotographer Thank you for the encouragement. Keep up the good work!
Think hard mate)
Leica has a lot of people taking the bait on this one)
Leica doesn't have a better camera and lens than the Q 😉
@@DerStiglitz I love the Q2 very much, see my channel :)
@@DerStiglitz I hear you on that. Thank you for the input. Much appreciated.
IMHO, a lens at a price tag over USD 2k should have no CA like at 17:56. That’s what Nikon nailed with the Z system, specifically with the Z lenses. If you get a used Z6 or new Z6II and the triple Z 35, 50 and 85 1.8 S you get a complete system for about the price of the Leica body, all lenses CR and distortion free, edge to edge sharp and no vignetting (lens correction on) wide open. Weather proof.
Interesting side effect to whom it may concern: the mirrorless systems of Canon (RF) and Nikon (Z) make ugly sun stars, whereas (can only talk for Nikon) the F-mount lenses make beautiful ones.
While chromatic aberration can be corrected in post, the correction is often not perfect especially if there are several purple and green fringing. I’ve been using the APO SL 35mm and the assurance that there will not be fringing when you shoot and the amount of time saved from correcting fringing in post makes the APO worth the price difference for me.
You are 100% correct! Man does not live on sharpness alone. Besides, almost all modern mirrorless lenses are "sharp". Those people who rely on fixing CAs in post will eventually be disappointed. We are spoiled by modern lenses. My Nikkor 24-120mm has fewer chromatic aberrations at 35mm and 50mm than those Summicrons. I also think it is quite possible the S Line 35mm and 50mm 1.8s are superior in every way to the "base" Summicrons and that just shouldn't be the case.
That's correct - for 3k more money you do not have to correct aberrations in post. The APOs are gorgeous for those who can afford to buy it :)
Wonder will Leica make the hold family for F1.8 lens a Leica version ?
With the 100mm F2.8 Marco, and i have a feeling that there is a 135mm F2.8 version in the housing family.
How does the rendering of the jewellery just outside of the depth of field compare? I always find this one of the biggest challenges for a lens, as you can get aberrations that sometimes are just not easy to correct in post-processing, or such attempts will render the image dull where you want it to shine.
this seems to be a missed opportunity. there's little to no doubt that the new Leica lenses will be outstanding performers in terms of sharpness...i was expecting a comparison in terms of Longitudinal CA wide open to highlight the advantages of apochromatic design...but alas it's not here.
Sorry Dexter, I need to shoot these new lenses more in the next months to get more datapoints. Thanks for your comment.
Any reason why so many of the shots were over-exposed? Would have been easier to recover the lowlights than highlights right?
Good point, Paul. I was shooting with spot or center metering, getting the metering right on the model's face and clearly over-exposing the background.
If Leica's SL2 autofocus system wasnt so behind every popular brand on the market I'd have still been a Leica shooter! It's sad that even my iphone focuses better! I loved everything about the system but shoot wide apertures and eg active kids the system just couldnt manage! I wish they would be more forthcoming about the focus system! Tracking left and right up and down is fine but it doesnt track forward motion in af-c
I also hope that Leica in the next iteration of the SL2 switches to Phase Detection autofocus, this will improve performance significantly.
Does the lens hood of a 50mm summicron fith on a 50mm apo summicron?
The 2 'new' Leica lenses have the _same_ formulae as the Panasonic Lumix S 35/1.8 and 50/1.8 lenses, except in metal housings with significantly greater cost.
Likely yes, I have not done my homework on Panasonic. Thanks for sharing.
That is excactly what my trusted Leica shop sales person told me! Not made in Germany but Portugal - Pana Componemts at a much higher price.
Great comparison review as always
As I own the compact 24-70 f2.8, I don’t see the point of purchasing additional F2 lenses, I wish they were f1.4’s being a worthwhile reason to buy them as well as differentiate them from the earlier APO lenses
All the very best to you Matt
24-70 is far from comparing the apo 35 and 50 especially in low light situation. All lens are good when there is enough light.
Thank you Ronald, always appreciate your feedback. If you are happy with your 24-70 lens, then all good. For those who want to shoot with primes, these Summicrons provide a really good image quality for a competitive price. All the best and always good to get your comments and thoughts, my friend :)
Okay Math, good video, proper test, but it need some comment to set things (more) straight (take a cup of coffee cause this need some additional info)
2 weeks ago the Leica Store in Miami did an introduction video on those lenses and they were comparing these between the cheaper Lumix versions in words only, same focal length but 1.8 (maybe you have read my comment)
In that video they were discussing the rumours that these lenses were rebranded Lumix lenses (spoiler , they are)
They said (in their/Leica defence) that a lot of lenses have parts of other companies, which is true, like cars, refrigerators, phones, etc but has no meaning.
But I asked the question, how much % Leica is needed to still call it a Leica lens, and the answer of course, will never be told, by them.
A week later I had a discussion with Matt (Mr. Leica) about these lenses and later I had the urge to find out.
And I am glad you started with the MFT charts cause there lays the answer.
If you take a look at the Lumix MTF charts, who are a bit different in showing the specs, you will notice that the characteristics of the Lumix lenses (curves of the MFT charts) are almost identical.
The Leica's are slightly better but they are branded as F2 whereas the Lumix are F1.8. (it is all about wave form of the MFT chart)
So if you would have a F2 chart of the Lumix it would even be more clear.
These lenses are the same with the difference that the Leica lenses are more robust and from metal.
Now it is anybodies choice to pay around 1500 euro for a metal case but that is what you get.
Now back to your test, and I am glad (and hope you did this on purpose cause IMO you are a smart guy) you did this with the 24MP Sl2-S
Cause with the SL (high MP) the difference would be more.
Lenses that perform less and vintage lenses in particular, will perform much better on low MP sensors/cameras than high MP (hope you agree with that cause it is story on itself)
So to close this comment.
For a SL2-S and SL2 go for the Lumix but if you can afford it go for the Apo.
Thanks for sharing an happy Easter my friend
I understand what I paid for in APO lenses, but in these lenses I sense some kind of cheating. I might be wrong about that. At the end of the day, the Leica body is indeed better than the Panasonic, but that doesn't justify a price increase of several times for me.
Thanks RS, like always, you are the best informed community member on my channel which I always appreciate. I generally think these are good lenses. Of course, they are embedded in the L-Alliance community which means Panasonic and Sigma lenses are just around the corner :) People care about lenses being Leica branded and these lenses are from Leica. Will you get the same or almost the same from Panasonic and Sigma? Of course you will. If people can afford to spend 3k more money, the APOs are the benchmark as said in the video. Enjoy the Easter weekend and happy shooting :)
I understand what you wrote, but, I tried the Lumix 50mm f1.8 lens a few months ago and I now own the Leica Summicron-SL 50, so I can compare photos from both on my SL2. While I have not done side by side testing of the same scenes, to my eyes, at f2, the Leica seems sharper. The dropoff from in focus to out of focus areas at f2 on the Leica also seems to be more pleasing.
Finally, and this is important to me and probably to many others as well, is the question of weather sealing. As far as I understand, the Lumix is weather resistant, but it's not recommended to take it out into a steady rain. With the Leica, I understand that they can be fully used in the rain and, in fact, I have done this with the 50mm lens with no problem and full confidence that both camera and lens will be OK. That makes the Leica lenses much more useful to me.
@@howardkastner5843 Thanks for you comment. Good contribution. If water sealing is of great concern to one, that would be indeed a solid reason to go for the Leica version. Also when you are Photographer who operates in environments where Lenses and cameras are easily damaged (e.g. reporters) the Leica would be the better choice.
On behalf of the MTF charts, I have to admit it is not the holy grail but in these circumstances it will reveal a lot about the similarity of both lenses. MTF charts can also be useful to see what one can expect from a lens and if ones copy serious deviate one could have a bad copy.
And indeed one should do a proper test (starting at F2) with a special test chart over the range to get it even more sorted out.
My point was and is, I think the optics are both Panasonic, which is not bad, and the lenses are not bad either, but one have think twice where the extra 1500 euro/dollar are spend on, IMO partly on a better construction, and partly on the Leica name.
Panasonic and Leica do a lot together, e.g. think back of the Tower Jazz sensors in the past (which is partly owned by Panasonic)
Beste Rob, Valide punten, echter een MTF kaart zegt niet alles over een lens zoals je weet. Rendering van een lens zegt meer dan alleen scherpte, contrast etc. En Matt had hier een betere vergelijk kunnen doen IMO. Chears!
This is what i been waiting for from you.
Ha! :) As said in the video, I did not want to make this video but after various requests I just did it. Thanks!
In meiner doch langen Portrait-Zeit habe ich die Erfahrung gemacht, dass keine Frau jung oder etwas älter, gerne ihre Hautunreitheiten, Falten bzw. das Make-up im Gesicht sehen wollen! Meine Wahl dazu seit vielen Jahren, ist ungeschlagen das ZEISS Softar I !!! Zufriedene Mienen, danken es Ihnen!
Haha :) Danke Wolf Rainer, sehr guter Kommentar! Es ist einfach, mit Photoshop "Smooth Skin" die Hautunreinheiten wegzuzaubern, aber das habe ich bewusst hier nicht gemacht. Selbstverständlich werden für eine Model Sedcard entsprechende Hautprobleme entfernt :)
@@mathphotographer
Es ist doch so viel einfacher, wenn man sich die „Nacharbeiten“ ersparen kann! Außerdem glaube ich nicht, dass ein steriles „Post Processing am PC mit Photoshop mit den Gebrauch des Zeiss SOFTAR I vergleichbar sind! Probieren geht über studieren! 😉
@@wolfrainerschmalfuss3515 Yes - selbst ausprobieren ist der BESTE WEG :)
I think Leica realizes non-M shooters are getting more price conscious, but then there are so many lenses one can use on the SL2. Anyway, good value for Leica lovers. Thanks for the video.
Thanks Wilfried - these lenses are good value for money. Its actually good that Leica produces some lower price tag lenses which are still very good and valuable.
Any idea if there will be a 90mm SL ?
Likely yes. There is a new Leica Vario-Elmar-SL 100-400 f/5-6.3 with a very competitive price tag so I think that Leica is currently manufacturing various more competitive lenses.
Would have been interesting to see a comparison for each focal length between APO and non APO…
The photographs you show have nothing thrilling about usual 3D effect that we often see from Leica lenses. I really think that either you go for the highest quality and pay for it or you get the sigma series and same even more money for the same result.
Thanks Didier, the APOs are better no doubt. But for a budget consideration on the SL system, these lenses deliver A LOT for the price tags.
@@mathphotographer they are far too expensive compared to the competition for same normal result. The APO are exceptional and you pay for it. These two lenses didn’t convince me yet. If I have the opportunity to test them, for sure I will
@@DidierMOULINPhotography Hmm ... good point if you leave the Leica universe and compare with other brands. Within the Leica world they are definitely at the much lower price end but outside the Leica world ... yes, you can find similar lenses significantly cheaper from Sony, Nikon, Canon, etc. Fair argument! And you are also right on the APOs: here you pay for superb quality and that is a pro decision argument.
@@mathphotographer indeed!
Thanks for your fair-play I appreciate.
Without looking at Nikon Canon Sony… just staying in the L Mount alliance.
The lumix series is I think a bit behind the Leica Non APO in terms of chromatic aberrations, but the sigma I series is incredibly interesting, more over in this alliance where those who come from Leica M word will appreciate the manual aperture ring for instance and the small size, too. Look at the 90 f/2.8 or the 35 f/2… and more recently the 50 f/2… this is a clear interesting alternative to non APO glasses in the L mount.
Always a great video. These lenses both seem too sharp for a lady’s face as they the show every pore and flaw. How to make it more flattering ?
Ha! :) You can always apply a "smooth skin" filter in Photoshop, but I wanted to show the images "as is" to demonstrate sharpness :)
Thank you for your reply. I very much enjoy your videos.
@@Households1234 Thanks for the positive feedback, much appreciated!
Which is better?
Apo-Summicrons are always a bit better and significantly more expensive. The score when it comes to sharpness, background render and contrast. But in real live shootings, you will also be very happy with the Summicrons. Their performance is really good.
I think mathphotographer has done an excellent job showing us the differences between these two product lines, but Im very sad. I want to be blown away by Leica quality, I'll pay double or more for real, discernible optical improvements and these lenses are not blowing me away. Isn't it amazing that companies like Nikon and Canon are producing comparable products for far less! The Nikkor S line 35mm and 50mm lenses are stunning in comparison the Leica variants, at 1/2 to 1/5 the price!
This really sucks. I've been a Leicaphile 40 years. My first Leica SLR was the R4s and I've owned a Leica M3 double stroke and M6TTL and many lenses. Back in the '80s I felt like you could really tell the difference between Leica and their Japanese rivals, now not so much. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the SL2s Reporter! I drool every time I see it, but the look and feel just isn't enough... I need value for money too. I know this doesn't really matter to Leica, they have buyers lined up on waiting lists to buy their products and that's great. I just wish I could justify buying these products, based on quantifiable quality and not just simply their luxury value. 😞
Hi Ed, many thanks for your comment, much appreciated. I hear your frustration. You pay more for Leica gear than what you pay for Nikon and Canon gear, your comment is spot on. But I personally feel, if I may, that when I shoot with my Leica SL2-S Reporter, I have this special look & feel appearance. I love shooting with Leica although I am conscious that you get more for your money from other brands. Maybe I am fooled by my admiration for the camera brand who invented 35mm film (Oscar Barnack in 1923), but when I shoot with Leica gear it feels right and the image quality and look of images is what I am looking for. With all due respect, you by no means have to share my passion, but when I shoot for jobs and clients, I shoot with various brands, not necessarily Leica. I shoot with Nikon, Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Sony, etc. - just have a look at my channel and you get the vibes. But shooting with my Leica gear makes me happy in a way I do not achieve somewhere else :) Happy shooting for you, Ed, and many thanks for your thoughtful comment.
@@mathphotographer I totally get it! I too get the same feeling when I shoot with a Leica. I had an SL2 with the 24-90mm for about 2 months, 2 years ago. I loved the feel and it made me smile every time I picked it up... except for the weight and girth. 😊
But, I too am a professional and when I shot with it for clients they never noticed. Worse yet, when I compared side by side results from my D850 and F mount 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8, the Nikon images were sharper. I know, I know... apple to oranges comparison. But still... I couldn't ignore that outcome, so I never bought the SL2. I wear $1000 Viberg boots when $100.00 boots would suffice. I wear a Grand Seiko when a Seiko would suffice. So I get it and to reiterate, I WANT an SL2s Reporter! This discussion/debate will never end and I guess I'm ok with that. Cheers
@@EdAb I am totally ok with that too, cheers :) By the way, if you shoot Nikon, go for the Z9, I have many videos on the Z9 on my channel and this is where Nikon really shines with lots of excellent new Z-Mount lenses ...
@@mathphotographer Ha ha... I already have a Z9 😆 I also have the 14-30mm, 24-120mm and FTZ adaptor.
I still use my D850s more. My favorite lenses for commercial assignments are the PC-E line. I have the 19mm, 45mm and 85mm (never really warmed up to the 24mm, so I sold it) and I find I prefer to use them with an optical finder. When the Z9 came out, my thought was that I'd prefer the focus peeking option, but that hasn't been the case. EVFs don't really impress me after decades of practice with OVFs. I'll probably prefer EVFs someday, but for now (except when doing video) I'm still an optical kind of guy.
A few months ago I asked if you'd be willing to do a comparison between the Z9 with a 24-120mm and the SL2 with a 24-90mm. I gave back my loaner SL2 before I bought the Z9, so I never had a chance to do that. How about it, will you do the comparison for us? 😃
@@EdAb Understood and is a valid argument :)
I believe these 'new' lenses are for those Leica SL-body owners who would normally buy a re-branded lens but want a metal body and that 'Leica' badge which is fine; Leica is just trying to get a cut of that market.
Yes Joon, this is an unusual low price tag for Leica SL lenses. Clearly Leica wants to penetrate the market here :)
I really not consider this as a rebranded lens,nothing is made in Japan.We can not.prove any parts of those two lens is from Japan.
@@xiayu6665 Correct, no proof out there, Xia.
Thanks for the review of these new lenses. It turned out a great video. The photos are really sharp and beautiful, but even on the RUclips screen I can see significant aberration in the images. This is especially evident in the branches against the bright sky.
Obviously these are good lenses, but they are quite ordinary in my opinion. The most attractive thing about them is the reduced weight and price. But if you compare with similar lenses from Panasonic, the price doesn't seem attractive anymore.
I've decided for myself that I'd rather keep using APO
The APOs are better, no doubt. But they also cost you 3k more ;) The aberrations are visible in the background as I mentioned in the video. With the APOs you have less problems in post. But 3k per lens is a lot of money for most photographers. That's where the Summicrons come in ...
@@mathphotographer
+3000K is certainly not a small amount of money
But I think a lot of Leica photographers have a tendency to be perfectionistic and spendy otherwise they would choose a Sony system...
The new Summicrons just don't seem like such a bargain because of the availability of LUMIX lenses, unlike the APO which has no counterparts.
I'm sure these lenses will find their buyers. However, for me it's not an obvious choice. If you want to save your money, you can buy identical but not as nice looking Panasonic lenses for $500-600
If you buy both new Leica 35 and 50 lenses - you'll pay about the same money as one APO and carry the same weight (and constantly agonise over lens choice))))
You could just buy one better APO 35 or 50 lens and be happy 🙂
That's my unpretentious view
@@DerStiglitz One Apo-Summicron for two Summicrons ... a fair calculation :) If for a buyer the focal length preference is clear, 35 versus 50, then this is a good argument and likely also a good choice.
First haha, I was waiting for this one.
Haha, thanks :) You are first indeed, thanks for posting your comment!
Great test. The new lenses are
In.fact made by Lumix... it s my
Opinion.
They are aligned with the L-Mount alliance of course, thanks Duc. Having said that, Leica produces a lot in Portugal so I think these are genuine Leica :)
LEICA benützt wie viele andere Hersteller leider nur die "theoretischen MTF Werte" und keine real gemessenen MTF Werte, wie z.B. die Firma ZEISS!
Thanks for pointing out.
*promo sm* 👇
Chromatic aberrations and nervous looking bokeh. The look of the bokeh wasn't that great IMHO, especially for portraits as it stands too much. Still, these look like pretty good value lenses.
Agree, thanks Paul.