2GGT: ZeRo Saga - NRG | Nairo (Bowser) Vs. TSM | ZeRo (Diddy Kong) Losers Quarters - Smash Wii U
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- Опубликовано: 19 дек 2016
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Lmfao, ZeRo popping off game one. He was like, "If I lose to this Bowser, I'll have to redo my tier list."
WeirdGamer117 i think bowser is top 20
I wouldn't be surprised, he's not terrible.
WeirdGamer117 Only thing hurting bowser is end lag on almost all his moves
and his pretty mediocre recovery. He's a high risk, high reward character. When he works, he almost seems top tier, however if you bait out move or get the right reads he's very exploitable.
no way in hell he's top 20 lol
Nairo may be hopeless against ZeRo's Diddy, but the fact that the man took a game from him playing a pocket Ryu with DEFAULT CONTROLS (known to be horrendous with Ryu) is actually crazy.
This was a heartbreaking match to watch. I can feel the frustration of Nairo unable to deal with Zero's Diddy. Zero is the main reason Nairo is trying out secondaries.
The Monado's Power ZSS is a definite no. It's such a bad matchup against Diddy now that up b no longer kill as early as it used to. Lucina is a decent choice. She's just a tipper-less Marth.
he should just use pit/dark pit again for diddy. he doesn't have a rough match up like zss and is a better character than lucina
Honestly, not such a good idea IMO. Only thing either of those two have going for themselves are neutral games, and Diddy has a better one then either.
marth/lucina probably best idea imo
Roger yes he's serious.
Even when he's losing, Nairo's Bowser is beautiful to watch. Some of the things he pulls off are just inconceivable to me.
"we have a bowser with a banana" 😂
3:23
"Zero Suit Samus has a somewhat bad matchup against Diddy, whatever character could I pick up to counter ZeRo, the best Diddy Kong?"
"Ah, Bowser. Perfect."
to be fair if you looked at his results other wise. he has not droped a single game to any one else with bowser. he's won other tournametns with bowser. its just zero.
Typhoon157 no it's not just zero it's Diddy.
Mega Dragon King lol what he beat the second best Diddy in the world with his bowser
I feel bad for Nairo, he hasn't been able to beat Zero ever since MLG. Not only that, but he doesn't have an actual answer for his diddy.
Dapuffdaddy 69 he should just ditto him. Or use mario. Even easier answer
Dapuffdaddy 69 Most of Nairo's character either have a bad recovery (Bowser, Cloud) or have a bad grab (ZSS), both which Diddy can capitalize on.
I feel like his Pit would be a decent matchup against Diddy.
Baby Eater no, no,no,no. his pit would get destroyed
Is This The Krusty Krab Why is that??
Dark Pit and Pit have a great neutral, and that's their only real dominant area. If they go against a character with a _better_ neutral, which Diddy definitely has, they really don't have a lot more to offer. Diddy is more agile, has a better projectile, has an easier time killing, etc.
Remember when this matchup was a guarenteed Grand Finals match in 2015.
Smash 4 has come a long way, and I'm excited to see it in 2017 with the Circuit and if Smash Switch changes up the game.
2:47
Bowser chasing Diddy got me dying lol
I was legit thinking about Bowser saying "come here mothetfucker"!! While he was chasing Diddy kong
That ryu pick was so hype.
It must be so maddening to be Nairo, fighting ZeRo at this point. ZeRo plays to win at any cost, even if it involves camping heavily on DH.
Even at MLG, where Nairo had a great win, Nairo doesn't have a solid answer to beat ZeRo's Diddy. That was more of a fluke than anything.
Fighting a camper, especially one as good and as ruthless as ZeRo, is just so frustrating. My heart goes out to you, Nairoby.
William Tannery Nairo needs to pick up an aggro Sonic or something.
William Tannery Honestly he has to now. He isn't the best smash 4 player anymore. I know past results may show that. But people like Ally, Leo, Salem ect are climbing to the top. He's smash 4's Ken. Give Zero a break he didn't play like this before. Now since people are either a little better or equal to him he has to play like this.
Papa Croc What? You've got to be crazy if you think Zero is falling off the plate that badly.
DEDEDELICIOUS He didn't play like this before. So yes I guess I must be crazy. He still gets good results but when he was the best he did not play like this.
Safe options and 50/50? Yes but campy heck no
Nairo needs to play Bowser less predictably.
Grab - up throw - neutral/up air - rinse&repeat
He shouldn't get upset when his opponents can work their way around that.
Jodeadible Yes, but the thing is, that's easily Bowser's best option in neutral. Bowser doesn't have a lot of super safe neutral moves, and grab-uthrow is just so powerful.
William Tannery sadly people don't realize that's all bowser is good for. One grab can shift the whole neutral game to bowser
Roboy Bofoi My point exactly.
unlike dk or meta knight literally every option bowser can throw out is laggy and can be punished, so he might as well fish for grabs.
Nairo also
Dairs
Fairs
Bairs
Down bs
Side bs
Up bs
Fighting a good bowser is just asscary as it sounds
Draco Pheonix It's probably shitty as well ;)
Hope Zero brought a tent cuz he was doing a whole lotta' camping in DH.
I respect ZeRo but holy shit, the amount of camping he did was so fucking annoying....I wish Nairo won the set !!! Keep going Nairo!!!
"Dishonorable"? LOL! There's no "Honorable" way to fight heavy/Hard hitters. If you go straight in to punch bowser/Ryu, you'll get Up throw > Up Air or up tilt > True Shoryuken'd. What's honorable about fighting a hard hitter with a style of fighting they do best? That's just stupid.
This comment section is a hilarious salt mine
Wasn't Bowser really high tier in the early 3DS days?
Yes, but it was for different reasons. He didn't have the U-throw combos until they were patched in later, but his side-b worked like a better version of Ganondorf's. Now, Bowser dies first offstage, but back then the person being grabbed died first. It was sort of stupidly easy to get kills. Grab your opponent twice from center stage, and you win :P
bower use to be able to live to 200% when the game still had vectoring
metasprite plus 3ds naturally has bigger blast zones
Steven Bowser
Nah. People were just not comfortable playing on the DS and people didn't know his match-up, so it gave Bowser some free hits.
+UltraMan21 Well that's partly true, but remember back on 3DS vectoring was extremely strong at the time. Bowser lived at crazy high percents because of vectoring, so that was in his favor.
That final match demonstrates perfectly why defensive play is best in Smash.
Because Ryu, a slow, comboing, powerhouse can't catch a more nimble opponent? It may work for that matchup, but run away against a Samus, Mewtwo, or Cloud, and they'll just charge their stuff and get ready for a hard punish
zario12 ironically mewtwo would do way worse
Didnt state any other character was better suited for the matchup, just that they had stuff to charge
ItsASquid In Smash 4****
^Well there's always Hbox for melee
They should ban the duck hunt stage
ZeRo does two fist pumps on both Bowser fights!
why isn't nairos ryu in title
Alright........i just hate camping. Come on Zero
Joseph Franc I mean he was just using Diddy's mobility to his advantage, which is the smart thing to do against heavy hitting characters such as Bowser and Ryu.
Joseph Franc Well he lost this tournament so there's that...
Dellen nickolis I know dude that sucks. The curse still hasnt been broken
Joseph Franc what curse?
Dashie Plushie Not a single player has won their own 2GG tournament. If it's named after them it seems like there's a curse preventing them from winning.
The funny thing is Nairo's Bowser beat Zero's Diddy in his own stream...
The good ole days... 😞❤
Before the 🅱ayo
so tired of zero's diddy
nobody cares
Nick Reecer you cared enough to reply
Yea he needs to pull out his Shulk.
Yeah, that's true. But that's about the most anybody does care.
Would you rather him play Cloud or Rosalina?
10:32 The fuck- Nairo, you just beat Zero; BE HAPPY, DAMMIT.
Watching nairo's bowser is my favorite thing to watch
I think that accidental jump canceled up-smash in game 2 changed the whole set. Momentum is HUGE, and Bowser's biggest factor is comeback potential. Not to mention, flubs like that can really negatively affect your mindset.
I really liked the first matches, but when duck hunt came out I instantly knew it was going to be a camping match... We should ban duck hunt, it is bad for this game.
Evan Aldridge no it's not
Its actually a very good thing to have counterpick stages
LoupiTheMightyCucco Don't get me wrong, personally I love duck hunt as a stage, especially for falcon, but when a stage disadvantages a character so much to where it is almost impossible to win, something needs to change. Its like the deal with pokefloats in melee, where once fox got a lead he could just run around the map and stall out the timer.
Evan Aldridge That's jsut not the case with Duck Hunt tho, it does favor camping, but you can't run away for ever...I don't get how you can seriously compare Pokéfloats with Duck Hunt
LoupiTheMightyCucco exactly right
Pollo has a better bowser than Nairo, maybe because is his main but I think bowser need to be played with many more mind tricks
At this point, Nairo most likely has the "fuck it, let's just do it" mentality against Zero lol
Zero complains that people don't clap for him then he pulls something like camping in DH.... I know, I know that's playing to win but still.. Also great example of why DH needs to be banned it promotes camping.
Well DH doesn't need to be banned, it's simply players who camp a lot like to use it for that reason. Also I agree, he complains about others hating on him, but plays in a way viewers don't like watching. Play to win, blah blah, still boring and you won't gain any claps.
DarkFox2071 He said he accepts that ppl wont cheer for him. I think he accepted that a while ago. DH is lame tho
To be fair, Bowser became a character that you have to lame out otherwise he'll grab you and kill you at like 60% even without rage, same as Donkey Kong. Lose one exchange in neutral after racking up tons of damage on either character because they never die, get grabbed, and die. You either lame that out or you lose.
SynysterDawn I'm very aware of that is "play to win" but still he shouldn't complain about no cheering when he pulls stuff like camping a bowser and then a ryu on DH.
DarkFox2071 He barely camped, he just knew that he had to emphasize a keep away style and pick his openings carefully or else Bowser would grab him and kill him, or Ryu would tilt him and kill him. Both characters have stupidly cheesy burst capabilities, and failing to play around that will equal a loss.
How exactly is a small, light, and mobile character like Diddy supposed to play around characters like that if camping and keeping away isn't a favored strategy? You don't poke the bear up close.
I'm sure Bowser isn't an amazing matchup against Diddy, but has to be equal if not better than ZSS's matchup
Whyyyyyyy the fuck wouldnt nairo ban DH? please someone explain, zero always counter picks there and none of nairo's characters benefit from that stage I dont get it
It's known as a bad stage for Diddy because when he pulls the banana the ducks can block it giving them a chance to close the gap and fight Diddy without the banana
Aakos94 Because FD is worse.
So he bans FD? Thanks for the explanation, I have been wondering this for a while
Aakos94 I don't know, I find DH way worse since it has platforms and more space for Diddy.
***** The ducks disrupt bananas.
People shouldn't complain how Zero plays. It is can be boring but I don't think he should stop. If he is winning then that means he has a winning strategy.
Carrots2DX the face I made when I read your comment is the face on your profile pic.
Does Nairo have a Cloud? It can work for him. Neutral Air and Forward Air can beat out diddy's monkey flip. And Cloud can combo easy on diddy.
People are complaining about ZeRo's camping but no one complaining about Bowsers silly up throw? Literally three grabs and your stock is gone and there isn't much you can do about it. We all want Nairo to win because it's been so long since he has against ZeRo but come on people..
I know, right? I've played against Bowsers before. It's terrifying. I play Mewtwo, and Bowser is one of the only matchups in which I will actually utilize his camping ability. If you want to win against a good Bowser, you can't afford to make any mistakes, so you have to play extremely safe.
Jake Schaafsma I play Luigi, Toon Link, Ryu, and Megaman and I never use Ryu or Luigi because honestly it's not worth making a mistake. I can happily Zone with Tink and Mega Haha.
As a huge Nairo fan, I agree with this. I'd much rather watch a camping Diddy than a Bowser waiting around to get 3 grabs so that he can end the stock by the third or fourth one. It's definitely not broken by any means, but Bowser just doing uthrow->nair/bair and then uthrow->uair (guaranteed kill) is pretty frustrating to both play and watch and it kind of forced ZeRo to play this campy. Same with DK--they're just such terribly designed characters, IMO because they don't have any other great tools going for them
This is exactly how I fight Bowser and DK players with Bayonetta; I just bullet camp them until they're at 150%+ and fish for the dtilt->uair or DABK->ABK->uair confirm lmao
Blu lol how can u be butthurt about bowser's up throw? if you're gonna play diddy, use diddy's ridiculous fucking versatility to not get grabbed. bowser's grab makes him viable at least, or else he'd suck. i'm happy he has a tool at least. don't get grabbed. and not to mention diddy's combo throws and shit, some can argue his side b is sorta broken. and bowser gets edge-guarded to shit in this MU
Blu also, nairo earned those grabs. zero got read a bunch of times after using side b predictably
Nario needs to find a new character
T, stop stalking me He's trying. :(
When it said "Ryu" I thought it said "Pikachu" LOL
Tfw 20% of the neutral is them just standing there.
ZeRo looks like Mayweather... in her game.
Did nairo use Up tilt or Down tilt once when he went Ryu?
Zero only threw out options that are safe on shield, so there was never any opportunity.
Yeah on duck hunt he threw out some Dtilts, one to kill a banana. And one other time with less effect. Diddy was in the air so often not it couldn't have been used more I don't think. Utilt on the other hand, maybe
this video was super biased commentators barely spoke of the good Zero did i literary here D1 get hype cause Nairo did 16% with no conversion....really l-_-"l
godhandking Who cares lol it was clear who the underdog was
godhandking because there's nothing notable to say about Diddy Kong because everything he does is just so op it's not fun to watch.
Wait, when did Nairo have a Bowser?
Did anyone else notice the guy juggling basketballs in the background on the right? 15:35
Thought we were gonna see some sweet Bowser play. Booooo for Ryu, and boooo for ZeRo's defensive play.
"Boo for playing how you should play against a heavy-hitting, burst speed and damage character that just has to grab you to kill you"
Bowser and Donkey Kong gameplay is some of the lamest shit in this game, and it forces players to play lame against them so that they don't get their stocks melted in a few grabs.
That's besides the point though. Not a whole hell of a lot of people play Bowser, so it's nice to see one high up in a tournament once in a while.
I find Bowser gameplay extremely boring to watch because they all go for the same thing - the grab - and other players either try and fight it and get booped, or play optimally (defensive, campy, run away) and make everything even more boring.
SynysterDawn I watch for the moments between those grabs when the Bowser player catches the opponent with the Side-B and Bairs.
Whoever's doing sound for MC's... More compression?
I've seen zero wear that jacket at least 1000x
well, yeah... he's representing his sponsor
10:29 SHHHOORRRYUUKKEENNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is just sad 😥
that last game was boss. nairo WP great set
Whatever happen to ZSS?
Jeffrey Uy
She does terribly against Diddy.
sakurai should have given bowser a charge fireball for neutral b..
Nairo Umehara
his diddy is just so repetitive tbh
The not so American eagle and so is Nairos Bowser yet only one of them gets hate
Because diddy is high tier while Bowser is the underdog that we want to win
Hate or not, underdog or not, his bowser is still repetitive
The not so American eagle truer words have never been spoken
I think Nairo may have gotten a bit greedy on that wiffed up smash :/ could have been a dub
it's umehara.
Zero always talks about how him and Nairo are super good friends but low key i always think that Nairo hates zero but like pretends to be his friend
There's a difference between rivals and friends. Sure, Nairo might be frustrated by not being able to defeat ZeRo in a long time now, but I don't think that's a reason to hate him.
It's bad because Diddy shuts down Bowser with banana and side b. And dair gets past the hitbox of up b easily with how big it is
Nairo would probably do better with Lucina. Didn't he use her once, taking a game off Zero? Look at MKLeo and his Marth-- he seems unstoppable
pause at 10:02, look at diddy's face XD
Commentators so lit 😂
Vash @10:55
How the heck is the best player in smash in losers quarters
I was kinda against the new ruleset until I watched this set
Nairo. Why.
Why did you sand bag on us.
Lol people get mad when people play to annoy their opponent. Hbox got called out for the same thing, but hey, there is money on the line.
I think Nairo beat ZeRo once but usally Nairo don't have a chance I like Nairo he is my favorite!
Nairo needs to main Cloud or something
im pretty sure he plays cloud in doubles
Does Nairo main Bowser now or was he just disrespecting ZeRo?
Bowser seems to be his secondary, not his main. And no, he's not disrespecting ZeRo. He's just trying something different against ZeRo.
Aaah thanks
DAMN I LIKE NAIRO NOW THAT HE PLAYS BOWSER F**K ZERO SUIT !
Alejandro R How could you not like Nairo?
Alejandro _ ALL CAPS!!!
Nairo should have stayed with Liquid. The NRG curse has spread to him too. Above average and clearly talented but not making it far in brackets.
Kwanro But that was 5th place.
Nairo's Bowser is good... but not that good. He goes for a lot of grabs and that makes him incredibly transparent. I think Nairo should mix things up more instead of putting such a huge emphasis on that grab.
What would you suggest specifically? Bowser's grab is the only thing he has going for him.
lildrummerboy65 yeah, that's the thing!! Bowser has such an incredibly awesome grab combo tree, but a lot of other serious weaknesses.
Umm no, Bowser has more moves than just his grab (no matter how effective it is). His tilts are great if you can space them well and deal tons of damage. If someone's in the air you could easily catch them out of it with a Nair (with a read of course) which is going to do close to 20% damage. By the ledge you can even apply some extra damage by using fire breath when your opponent is trying to get back onto the stage.
Look I'm not saying you shouldn't be using Bowser's grab consistently, but when you start to repeatedly go for it every single time with extreme tunnel vision you're going to become incredibly predictable. I don't care how good you think his grab is, you need to switch it up and not let your opponent be one step ahead of you because you have only one thing on your mind. I bet you anything Zero would be well prepared the next time he faces Nairo's Bowser, even more so if Nairo doesn't switch things up.
His tilts have hella cooldown and can be whiff punished/shield punished on reaction by a mediocre player.
Same with nair. You're risking a lot just throwing it out uncombo'd.
Fire breath is an alright move yeah. I use it pretty frequently actually.
Any of these options don't hold a candle to going for a grab though. If you don't make grabbing your primary objective as Bowser there is absolutely no point to playing him.
didy is so OP it's ridiculous and Duck Hunt should not be a legal stage.
diddy.. resident sleeper..zzz..
Your lack of the focus attack disturbs me.
Tim Enny Diddy has a command grab and also his multi hit up smash. not a good option against him
Alexander Duenas You are definitely right, FA isn't a great option against some of the roster. But even using FADC makes Ryu's movement much less predictable and can even condition your opponent (sort of). Honestly I feel it's one of Ryu's best moves and was surprised how rarely Nairo used it. Also I'm biased: I love Ryu, hate Diddy, and really wanted to see Nairo beat Zero lol
People complaining about the camping, its not the most entertaining but against Bowser and Ryu you need to play extremely careful. people like to swear up and down the wall how rosalina is broken but refuse to talk about how 3 grabs is all it takes for bowser to kill you or 60% for ryu to kill you with up tilt up b, or Zss combos or an invincible movement/recovery option that spikes extremely early. You HAVE to play careful or else you will for sure lose
Thomas Thoburn because characters like Bowser and Ryu take actual skill to use unlike Diddy, Rosalina and Cloud who you could pick up in a day smh.
It is
Way
Easier to not get grabbed then to be camped out the entire match.
Think pokefloats from melee.
Once fox got any percent, he could just run away the whole match.
Diddy can do that.
@@megadragonking546 boWSER??????????????????????????????????????
うまい
PICK BOY LUCINA OR MARTHA!!!!!!!!
top top top top top top U_U
Looking at this Nario easily could have won if he played more aggressively. Zero camped and Nario let him. He didn't use his full pressure options. not enough UP B out of shield. not enough UP B tech chase. not enough side tilt or jab. and not enough throwing out a retreating forward air to block approach. Nario is a damn good bowser but his bowser style is not good against camping.
Secondly I'd like to vote we ban diddy kong. too strong in too many categories.
Honestly watching zero play sometimes is infuriating. I know it's a matter of playing to win, but camping with diddy kong just is not hype at all, and is not what I hope to see while watching pro play.
what would you against a character with Melee Marth Grab Range and an Up Throw that converts into easily 30% damage and even kills? Rush in and punch him in the face?
+Athorment Yeah I guess you're right. But the thing is he plays like that a lot...
how is ZeRo still the "best smash player in the world" if Ally won Evo, Shit don't make sense
Danny Rodriguez overall results of his career place him much higher than anyone else
Danny Rodriguez Cause Ally won 3 majors, while ZeRo has 4 this year
Scratch that, smash n splash wasn't a major
Evo isn't the only event of the year.
ZeRo has more consistent placings, with his worst being 13th compared to Ally getting 49th at CEO. ZeRo has also won more.
Ally has Smash N Splash, Goml and EVO. Big events, but compared to ZeRo's wins at G3, Shine, Endgame (Where he defeated Ally), The Big House and UGC Smash Open and also outplacing Ally at ZeRo saga despite the saga curse makes Ally struggle to be the better player.
Thats the way I see it
The Internet Pacifist
Lol. I know this happened later, but now ZeRos worst placement is 49th. Lmao.
How Ironic.
I am reffering to Civil War.
nairo ...
Use your zss!
You are far better with zss!
Super Zombie didn't destroys ZSS though
Diddy**
Zero Suit is Nairo main character.
Lmao put that bowser away
ないろってクッパ使うの？
まじが
for all of you saying that zero is such a wimp running away the whole set let me tell you something he fucking has to in this mu diddy has a hard time killing and bowser is the heaviest character in the game also bowser can kill pretty easily like he grabs you 4 times you die zero was playing the game optimally and thats how players should play the game competitively for the best results in an optimal fashion and zero did just that so good job zero hats off to you
parker wicht
If all you want to do is win, then why play the game? It should be to win AND have fun.
Diddy has a plethera of other options, while bowser doesn't. He showed his colors that he just wants to win and not to even enjoy the game.
Diddy kong can kill bowser extremely early by just getting him off stage and edge guarding. ZeRo showed that he would rather set up his tent like a pussy, rather then try and take a stock.
This is the proof ryu is fucking op
You can use it with only aerials and beat the best diddy in the world.
I mean, he wasn't even getting combos, setups, he used ryu to 15% of his potential...and he takes a game from zero.
I'm calling it, 20SF will come guys
Zero actually had to work hard to beat nairo
Has Nairo ever beat Zero 😂😂 So satisfying seeing him lose. My fav player is MkLeo :)
K.D.G why satisfying?? he won zero at MlG taking the crown and breaking his streak
Eddie Ornelas i don't like Nairo lol
K.D.G Why not?
K.D.G Why the hell would you not like him?
smh Hating on people for no reason...
Zero keeping it safe and boring with the old monkey banana, monotone techs. This guy is the Charlie Sheen of Sm4sh, he doesn't care about giving a good spectacle to the viewers, it's all about winning. Diddy locals, Diddy EVO, Diddy Diddy everywhere.
AlphA NeoX I know I hope that Diddy gets a huge Nerf and this guy crashes and burns.
That's the point of a tournament to win lol
I dont like dd.
His diddy just gets boring to watch
That thumbnail drawing of Zero needs to make his body twice as large, and his scarf look more like a gay little ascot.
i don't like the way zero plays he always choose diddy if he uses another character he will lose easily
Hector Lopez I know because the only way he could be decent is by playing an Op broken character like diddy.
"I don't like ZeRo because he plays a character that he likes to play" Also he 3-1 Ally, 2016 Evo Champ and 2nd best player in Smash 4, with his Lucina. So much for "losing easily with another character." Lmao
ZeRo played so lame this set... Really disappointing. Even thou it worked it was really lame of him
Trying to take on powerhouse characters like Bowser & Ryu head on is how you lose.
ZEmo Yousei that's how you fight Ryu if you don't you lose ZeRo apologizing for trying to win
Have you seen Nairo's other matches where his opponents do not play lame? They get destroyed. Check out his match against Mr. E and you'll understand why playing lame against Bowser is an absolute requirement.
It's a competitive game, what did you expect?