Sonic DS: Stealth's preemptive response to SEGA's Sonic DS Collection.
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2023
- Gameplay Presented as-is with minimal editing and upscaling in order to show off many of the features present. Turn on Captions for some extra commentary.
Sonic DS is a proof-of-concept port of 3 classic Sonic the Hedgehog SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive games to Nintendo DS. This demo was made by Simon Thomley, AKA Stealth, best known to Sonic fans for his work on the remakes of Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, and 3 commissioned for use by SEGA for app stores and in Sonic Origins, and Sonic Mania.
While the games in Sonic Origins and Sonic Mania run on Christian Whitehead's "Retro Engine", Sonic DS provides a more accurate direct port of the original engines to the DS. It was made with the intent to pitch to SEGA after the title of Sonic Classic Collection for Nintendo DS was leaked in the hopes that SEGA would not repeat the past.
The proof of concept was built off of Stealth's previous demo, "Sonic GBA", which set out to prove the original Sonic the Hedgehog could, in fact, run perfectly on the Game Boy Advance. That demo is often cited in conversation surrounding the infamous Sonic The Hedgehog Genesis, which had inaccurate physics, excessive slowdown, and barely passable remixes of the original music, often interrupted by more important processing tasks.
I made this video because of a lack of coverage and this project, being often overlooked in conversations about the history of Sonic collections. I believe it's not only important to the context of Sonic Classic Collection, but to Sonic Mania and Sonic Origins especially.
Visit the original Headcannon website for Sonic DS, and to try it out for yourself: www.headcannon.com/hchc/SonicDS/ 
Игры
People in the comments failing to understand what a Proof of Concept is. The whole point of this was to show that you could have these games running natively on the DS instead of via poor emulation.
Stealth didn't know exactly what he would be competing with if he did end up successfully pitching but I doubt he would have been too broken up about what really came of SEGA's project at the time, his biggest fear was just them royally screwing up like with Sonic Genesis. The final product was a commendable effort in its own right. Not perfect and a little barebones but not without a solid effort and certainly not below Sonic Genesis, and it helps that JenesisDS was already respected DS Homebrew. There's certainly a lot that could have been done and expanded on with direct DS ports but by the time Classic Collection was out there wasn't too much demand for last-minute additions to the library to justify a larger undertaking.
Should've said that from the beginning. My brain couldn't process all that information
@@shilze1 I agree! They actually went through the effort of modifying each game to work within the parameters of JenesisDS specifically, rather than just releasing them as-is.
@@shilze1 So in essence, Stealth is the developer that sega "needs" but doesn't deserve?
@@LasagaMan
Nailed it. Stealth has been a pillar of the Sonic Community and romhacking scene for a couple of decades now at the very least.
What’s awesome is stealth, created headcannon, that worked with Christian whiteheads company (evening star?) to bring Sonic Origins.
Ultimately, he got there!
i absolutely LOVE that idea of bottom screen being a map for the blue sphere stages.
that's not how it works
@@Lou-yf1jo seems to work fine on the video there. also i know that it would most likely not have been there in the final game.
all i said was that i would have loved if that map would have remained there in the final game (had we gotten one)
Honestly it would have been really cool if classic collection actually used the touch screen for a map instead of just showing the game's plot and the being used for the pause button
To this day it bugs me that the sprite layers are in the wrong order in Classic Collection. In S3&K some select sprites render on top of the characters. Most noticeably the levers that Knuckles uses in Mushroom Hill and the holes left by those worm badniks in Lava Reef.
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
I had Classic Collection on DS as a kid and didn't notice anything wrong with it. I'd then install the game on my hacked 2DS many years later and realise how bad it is with its low quality audio, compressed visuals and slow performance.
and for some reason in sonic 3 you couldnt get tails to fly at all(at least for me)
I just couldn't get past knuckles not having his top row of pixels.
Even as a little kid I noticed how laggy the game was and how some of the sounds were wrong
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
that's odd. I had a fat ds and the lag was INSANE. years later when i played on 3ds in 2011, there was zero lag. still, it sounded like shit. now i just use the picodrive emulator, sound isn't perfect but it's more than good enough
Man, SEGA must have been in a very weird predicament with the DS Classic Collection.
On one hand you have you have a developer who made an incredible homebrew Genesis emulator on the DS, and on the other you have someone who's willing to recreate every Sonic game from scratch.
Honestly, neither decision was bad. It's just the Jenesisds dev got there first.
It's possible it just never came through to anyone who could've made a note of it, but the DS was also on about its last year and it was last minute enough that they probably wouldn't have wanted to devote much more time to it, especially with the Megamix part of the pitch.
@@shilze1also it's way easier to slap some roms into an emulator than port entire games to a console
@@inktendo It's also cheaper, which is the most likely reason why SEGA went the emulation route
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
@@Lou-yf1jo Classic Collection IS GREAT! ♥
say what you want, but a map for blue spheres levels wouldve been a really good use of the ds touch screen. especially in stages with the yellow spheres
Blue Sphere was ROUGH on DS.
It was pretty horrible, it was the one thing that really made me never want to play that port despite it being one of the better ones overall. Sonic Jam is also disappointingly kinda bad.
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
7:33 wow, rude
I really like the blue spheres implementation using the second screen
That's just for debugging purposes. It wouldn't have been there in the finished product.
Im completely aware it wouldnt be there in a final product but it would definitely make blue spheres less of a hassle
N
Looks better than sonic classic collection 😂
Save for maybe different screen positioning it looks almost exactly the same as the ds collection
@@shalpp I only said that since the frame rate is much nicer
@@ThatRetroGuy2005classic collection was made for DSi in mind, that is more powerful, It says un the back on the box, if you tested on an 3ds or normal DS you didn't play It correctly 💥
What's wrong with Sonic Classic Collection??
@@VampireA1056 idk
Idk why but the wrong music playing is so funny to me.
Sonic classic collection is fine, it's just modified roms on a DS cart. Sad thing is they didn't even add blue spheres to the game.
What are you talking about?
@@TheFallenStar64 go to the Genesis vault in Vimm's lair and check the S section. You can see that there's roms of sonic games labeled "Sonic Classic Collection"
@@X_Lord_of_the_Nightso then, how do you get the chaos emeralds in the DS version of S3&K?
@@gilitovenegas2339 You can get them just like normal, what he is actually talking about is the blue sphere game that you get from locking on any game that is not sonic 2 or 3 on the sonic and knuckles cartridge. You get a "NO WAY!?" screen then you press A, B, C together and can play a endless number of new blue sphere stages.
@@gilitovenegas2339 Hello, sorry for the late response. I got curious about the topic, there's not that much documentation about it, and the ones i saw said that blue spheres weren't in the game,so i went to try it myself. I tried Sonic 3, Knuckles in Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, the conclusion is Blue spheres is in all of them with the exception of the Knuckles campaign in S&K which is something that was already like that in the original. The being said, I'm sorry for my previous comment saying it wasn't included, i took as base some RUclips videos that said that blue spheres aren't included, I'll be excluding my previous comment.
Man, imagine if Sega went with this instead of Classic Collection, give it like 6 months of dev time and it would have been a better experience. I remember this ROM, this is back when developing for the DS was way harder than it is now.
why are some of the music notes kindof flat? is it a sample rate thing?
i think some of the songs are played some microtones down, i think sample rate sounds like a feasible explanation
@@trash_lol i know it was like that with the botched port for Goin Quackers (N64)
Because it’s ds
And some sound effects sound like something from Newgrounds flash games
The substitute music choices were WILD 😭
How the Classic Sonic games on the DS _should_ run.
Playable special stages?
Awww I thought it was gonna be a recreation of that Tech Demo where you swipe one the screen to run.
Still, good job!
It's not something I made. This video is intended to showcase a lesser-known project by Stealth that was based on his well-known Sonic GBA port of Sonic 1 because there really isn't any footage of it anywhere else on RUclips.
@@shilze1 Oh ok lol, at least you made the footage aviable tho
"If that description sounds familiar, you might be a Blue Spheres fan! These officially debited in Sonic Origins!"
Sonic Mania: -_-
I assumed it only made it in officially through Blue Spheres Plus, but I am also not a Blue Spheres (or Mania) fan myself and what I do know about that edition comes from lets plays.
@@shilze1blue spheres mania no good
For a proof of concept of this Sonic genesis game being run natively on a DS, it looks pretty good.
I have Sonic Classic Collection for my 3DS, and I wouldn't say it's good because of the crap emulation, I'd say it would've been better if these games ran natively on the collection rather than emulation.
Where tf did sonic megamix come from
ROM hack of Sonic 1 that was really popular back in it's day, also Stealth worked on it.
11:13 Actually, the Green & Pink Spheres debuted in Sonic Mania with Blue Spheres Mania Mode
This was made around 2011-2012 tho (Mania released in 2017)
Therefore, this was the first appearance of the Green and Pink spheres.
@@I-like-Sonic-91 The captions say they *officially* debuted in Sonic Origins. They are correcting that as they *officially* debuted in Mania's Blue Spheres Mania mode.
no, they never did because mania is a fangame
@@Lou-yf1joa game made by fans released by sega, yes.
edit: nvm i just saw you have fucking 25 comments on this video defending classic collection like your life depends on it and calling this shit. good luck with that bro lmao
am i going nuts from listening to microtonal music or is the soundtrack just out of tune
yeah it is out of tune
its not just you. the sound is off.
It's off by a few semitones. I took music in school so I would know.
@@TRMofYTIt’s not off by THAT much. If our semitone knowledge is the same (which it more than likely is), then saying “a few semitones” would mean the new key is at least two or three half-steps above or below C, which is the normal key of the song.
In just listening to it I can say it’s off by at most 1 semitone, which would make the new pitch more akin to B, but it’s not q u i t e there yet
@@BigNate60_2.0 Fair point. So it's technically in B but yet off-pitch at the same time.
Sonic Collection DS is fine but needs rework due to broken graphics. I kinda like the music and proof of concept. Given that there are some features added like debug on second screen or map for special stage, S3 to be exact. But besides that, really needs to be reworked.
I know this wouldn't have happened even if the project was green lit but I would've loved if this used both screens like sonic rush, would've made the games feel more immersive
N o
of course this is better THIS WAS RECONSTRUCTED INSTEAD OF EMULATED‼️
No, Classic Collection IS Better.
@@Lou-yf1jocope and seeth
why are you using desmume rather than melonds? is your computer not 64 bit
Because built in raw video recording and I don't think it works on Melon
Desmume has built-in recording software that gets rid of any lag you may experience while playing. Like, you could have a ton of slowdown, but the recorded product won't have it.
fuck melon ds, desmume is better
Whats the deal with the music? Sounds almost like it's sequenced straight from the ds hardware
It is
Because it is, its being ran in midi
Makes me wonder a few things -
How would the sound effects sound if they were synthesized in hardware sort of like how the saturn did it in sonic jam
But also sonic jam would've fared with a sequenced soundtrack, either sampling bits of the fm patches or trying to match the original patches with its own built in fm synth
@@undyingstarnot midi
Midi refers to a system built in music keyboards to communicate with PCs
General Midi is separate from DS, even if creating a midi2ds driver could be possible
@@shalpp this definitely uses the full sampled versions from saturn games or atleast the same methods, which is why it sounds crusty compared to the music
The music make it look like a PS1 bootleg from Sonic 1
This might not be commercially viable anymore but it will always be a point of interest. Give this to the SAGE people and watch how fast they finish the development
No, a ds game would be perfect if done right, like the classic collection.
Stealth was always active in SAGE contests… he created Sonic Mania for god’s sake. Cut him some slack.
Classic collection is one of the biggest rip-offs in gaming history. Commercials made it seem like it functioned so well, but the sound was awful, the graphics could glitch out, and the lag was extremely bad unless you played on a DSi or 3DS. I had a fat original DS and basically was playing every game in slow motion. But I still tried to like it, I'd waited for handheld Sonic 3 since the 90s
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
To beat the Megamix boss at 28:17 u need to spindash in egman ball
bruh
Who tf disliked the video
How tf can you see that
@@Zomboy4313 Illegal ways
8 hours ago
Dr. Eggman and his alt accounts
@@Nintendo_Homebrewand his badniks
You think if Sega approved of this pitch, Sonic Megamix would become canon?
The fan game within itself or just the title? Edit: I just saw the pitch demo for Sonic mega mix for the ds, and I can say maybe.
no dumbass, its a proof of concept, sega would not have added megamix into the final product had it been approved
Sonic Megamix was likely ported and included *after* Sonic 1-3 DS was pitched and rejected.
Wow, nice port. But sadly got shelved
Yes, Classic Collection did some things wrong, it’s flawed.
Honestly, Classic Sonic games in general are such an oddity on DS. It’s like that phase for mobile gaming where gaming companies ported whatever to phones like Dead Space or Mega Man which sucked. They’re not meant for the device and it’s arguable that the DS shouldn’t even have old games like this on its hardware. It makes me kind of glad that Sega gave the DS some original Sonic titles for it though as we have amazing games for the handheld.
And absolutely amazing work by Stealth as well! It’s obviously no where near perfect, but it just simply can’t be so. The DS is simply a weird console and it’s not kind to mimicking old consoles’ sound chips. This was notable when we got Pokemon Heartgold where there was the GB Sounds item where it mostly replicates the original G/S/C games’ music. It’s imperfect and many instruments were changed to be close enough to the original Gameboy sounds.
The music being wrong in the first special stage and for invincibility is f’ing me up.
What the GBA of sonic 1 should’ve been.
Funny you mention that, Stealth made a port of Sonic 1 for the GBA to contest the Sega official one. It used a disassembly of the original game ported over to C, featured all of GHZ, and I think a little bit of Labyrinth zone? Also significantly better music and visuals
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
@@Lou-yf1jo This comment wasn't about the Classic Collection? This is in reference to the "Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis" game for the GBA, which was a "port" of the original title that suffered from very clunky physics, iffy music and slowdown.
"ds collection nobody even remembers" ok wow think of the little zoomers who got this game when they were 8 and got to play around with those games on the go. besides nostalgia i think the fact that it had knuckles in sonic 2 and sonic 3 & knuckles makes it a pretty solid collection. good video though!
Did your comma and shift key fall off?'
The only I remember is that it uses music from sonic jam
Yeah I have it still.
I would know. Because I was one of those zoomers that got classic collection when I was 8 or 9.
@netmeister7941 if you can read what I say idgaf, it's a youtube comment not a job application
the Lou guy in the replies trying to defend Classic Collection and saying this is garbage despite the fact this is a literal proof of concept prototype is killing me lmao
tis still better than GBA
Wait until you see stealths sonic 1 GBA tech demo
No, Classic Collection Did Nothing Wrong. It's Perfect.
@@Lou-yf1jo i mean its still better than the GBA version of sonic 1
@@Lou-yf1jo Classic collection is far from perfect, but it’s definitely acceptable for the hardware and the way it was developed
Sonic 3 is broken on 3dS
That's because classic collection was made with the ds screen in mind, that's why it looks weird when played on 3ds try pressing select or start before you launch the game on 3ds.
?
Sonic Classic Collection: aM i A jOkE tO yOu-
This feels like it wasn’t understood properly.
sonic classic collection used a genesis emulator developed prior to its release in order to "port" the games to ds, this tech demo is more of a remake of the sonic engine natively on ds hardware. Stealth wanted to stop sega from being lazy and take this concept to make the collection at least a bit more playable without the resolution looking like it was shredded and stuck together again
classic collection sucks
Classic Collection Is Perfect.
This is not the classic collection
Nobody said it was the classic collection
@@poopgoopboop123abc well it's meant to be. but this guy is showing a shitty attempt of the game instead.
@@Lou-yf1joit’s called proof of concept
holy fuck you really replied to *everything* about classic collection didn't you @@Lou-yf1jo
@@Lou-yf1jo It's supposed to be a proof of concept of how the Sonic Genesis games can be played natively on DS, made by the one and only Stealth
next time use melon ds it's better
What??
It's not better at all. it's not even real hardware
sonic games on nintendo FULL SHIT
what are you blabbering about
he's just another full sega fan, no nintendo stuff for him basically, wants the 1991 sega vs nintendo thing to happen again.
My guy, have you heard of Sonic Rush?
@@Trimint123 or the *entire* Advance series
@Karnage233 or Rush Adventure, the Story book series games, sonic colors' initial release, sonic Battle, sonic pinball party etc... 😂