Yeah, I want to change ULTRAKILL
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- #ultrakill #fps #steam
Here's a few ideas to get ULTRAKILL to communicate its stylish gameplay better for new players.
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“It’s a good thing none of you are developing Ultrakill or it would suck”
-Arsi ‘Hakita’ Patalla
(Paraphrasing)
Good thing since mayo has no ideea lmao
@@eeelorde9962 if they said that if Mayo will develop ultrakill then it will suck them why they added gen through style point huh?
@@flynntaggart7216 it was not bc of him lol i guess someone with a 3 braincells added the style stuff bc of someone that played the game..
@@eeelorde9962 i don't see any problem is Mayo point where is the problem
yeah, i think this video forgets that the hardest difficulty in the game currently is the 3rd hardest that there will be on release
You don’t understand the fundamentals of ultrakill
Doom punishes you for playing poorly
Ultrakill rewards you for playing well
Thé way ultrakill works is that you are in a kitchen with all the ingredients in the world, you can make anything you want
And by just using the pistol, you’re only eating the jar of mayonnaise you found in the fridge
And then he says only eating Mayo still counts as a meal, so he doesn’t feel incentivized to cook anything
True
😭fuckin jar of mayo
Pin this to the top
why did you put an accent on the "e" in "the"?
The way Mayo approaches Ultrakill is the minecraft equivalent of making a wheat farm, digging a hole into the mountain, refusing to leave since he already has a food source in a safe zone and complaining the game has nothing to do. Apparently the concept of free choice scares him and he needs to be FORCED to have fun.
"minecraft is boring because you can do a food farm inside your enclosed house and never lose"
Watching his elden ring stream really made that clear, he has a meltdown because the game allows him to explore. I understand some people are more goal oriented than other but it was ridiculous how bothered he was simply for having player agency.
@@eldenlean5221 I'm honestly surprised he even bought the game considering everyone knows he doesn't like Fromsoft games. The most anyone can expect was that he got enough footage for a ragebait video that nobody takes seriously. Man should stick to Doom Eternal seeing how a lot of his takes on anything else are really hit or miss.
Next video: Stardew valley is too easy, and you should be forced to use blueberries.
Pretty fuckin dumb comparison cause you can’t beat Minecraft that way or experience most of it but you can with ultra kill. That’s his point dummy
I think better mass appeal is a pretty terrible argument for changes in a game like ultrakill
Ironically he praised the Marauder despite him alienating a lot of DE players.
Yeah, because the developer doesn't want more sales of his game or anything. That would be terrible for his future as a developer...If you watched the whole video, Mayo's point about mass appeal has to do with NEW players. It's not wrong to want to help people new to a game and to introduce the systems to them in a way that makes them want to stick with it. Such things can only help bolster it and make it that much easier to recommend to others.
@@MinhLe-cf5nt I don't know anyone who got to the Marauder and outright quit the game just because of him and all the reviews I read never mention that, either so I don't know where you're getting that from. Id Software admitted they could have done a better job at educating people about the Marauder and that's why they implemented a small tutorial about him prior to his fight. Education is never a bad a thing in a game, especially when you're trying to retain players and any good developer will be open to that kind of criticism and find ways to improve how they teach players. Ultrakill should be no exception.
@@zer0dave Sales driven development imho is what caused the big FPS genre dark age in the 2000s. Also it's not like ultrakill is not one of the best rated games in steam rn; there's a difference between a game doing great and milking every possible penny out of it. I also did watch the whole video, and overall I agree with the guy, those could be neat adjustments, that's why I didn't mention it, maybe I should've. I just thought that take in particular (the one I adressed) was kinda bad.
@@tensazangetsu8189 There's a difference between trying to improve sales by chasing whatever is popular and trying to improve sales by potentially making the game better without impacting its identity or core audience. Please don't try to generalize both as the same thing.
"Its good you guys dont develop the game because if you did it will suck"
-Hakita
Respect is all I gotta say to that
Love it when a developer looks at the fans and goes "respectfully, you are all morons. Im gonna go and add more Bussy to the game."
"You think you do, but you don't"
- Devs who are always right.
@@carpedm9846 “add more bussy into the game” source? (I know about Clair de lune don’t worry)
@@carpedm9846 We aren't all morons. Its basically just Mayo on this one.
My take on Mayo’s “changes” to Ultrakill’s gameplay is the same as my take on Garrulous64’s “fixes” to Infinite’s character : if your solution is a complete overhaul, just play a different game.
Garrulous is right about his fixes tho, Mayo isn't.
@@obsessionsofthevoid Both of their concepts work in theory, (Garrulous64’s Infinite feels more fleshed out as a character and Mayo’s schematics for a FPS sound challenging and fun). The problem is that both of these concepts are so far from the originals, they may as well be completely original creations instead of “improved versions”.
Fuck it, MAKE a different game.
@@jay89452 That requires talent and experience.
Yeah, I used to think if ways to improve the show Seven Deadly Sins until I realized my way of "rewriting" it was an entirely different series.
As a man who wants an asset enlargement update for the Mindflayer model, Yes i too desire a change for ULTRAKILL.
Finally someone who knows what's good, mah man
why tho :fbi:
Such a visionary guy...
I like your style!
I honestly want a male variant, since lore wise both body's exist it's just that they prefer the female one.
A mindflayer with a male body and different moveset or maybe slower but stronger attacks while making him more tanki but teleports less can be a nice way to implement it. And it being a secret / mini-boss would be a good way to emphasise on how rare a male variant is.
Hakita hire this man
mayo is the type of guy who wouldnt visit his ill grandma because "there's nothing to incentivise it"
Wtf are you even talking about
atleast try to come up with something good
@@simbatryhard nigga lettuce.
@@simbatryhard cope
Games need incentives to do just about every activity. Why do you think side quests and exploration are a thing? Why have multiple weapons/abilities. Without incentives you have a Ubisoft open world "game".
I feel like the 99% positive reviews for an unfinished early access game made by someone who enjoys fumos (based) is the biggest ratio in human existence
And most of the bad reviews are about robot sex anyway
@@poxxerthe2sthey, it worked, ultraplug is a thing now
@@poxxerthe2stand the dev already added that so he clearly does listen to the community
@@glitchlord9720 Mirage gets me feeling things
@@diogod2347 AYOOO?!(same)
Two things:
1. Maybe this is just me, but I had a generally pretty difficult time getting through the levels when I first started playing. I never found the game to be easy.
2. I never thought the piercer was a viable weapon. A lot of my frustration with it was how slow it was to use and clear a room. When I started seeing other options that could kill more enemies in less time, that's what kept me wanting more from the game.
I saw somewhere else in the comments section that Mayo seems to like external motivation from a game, where you have to get good if you want to progress. But I feel like that's why a lot of people don't like Minecraft, because Minecraft doesn't require you to do anything; it's all up to you and your own personal goals.
So I feel like this is a game that isn't for everyone, because yes, the bosses are hard, and you have to be good to beat them, but at the same time, I'm not motivated to get better because I need to if I want to progress. I'm motivated because I want to feel like a badass, and when I first saw cool techs like slam storage, projectile boosting, and chargebacks, my first thoughts were, "Damn, I've GOT to try that."
Minecraft is a different case cuz it literally doesn't teach you anything and you must use external sources to understand mechanics. Ultrakill encourages you to explore that things through kinda obvious experimenting. I am that kind of players that like to jump into every single corner to find something interesting (I don't care if that "interesting" was intentional or not), but tbh most of the mechanics can be discovered randomly, even if you blind enough to miss all tips that game gives
@@fenix5fire ME, i played the game just dicking around and doing my own thing till i accidentally discovered slam storage on my own. i thought i discovered this tech myself because it felt so odd and no ultrakill videos that i watched up to that point mentioned slam storage. i felt sooo disappointed that it was an already existing tech but i was happy that i found it on my own terms and not from a tutorial.
There you go you just ended every argument that has been made on this topic good job case closed everyone let's move on
for question #1
did you choose standard or violent when you first started playing?
I know this is off-topic but I generally think that terraria is better than minecraft. For a quarter of the price you have a lot more stuff. I'm not saying minecraft is shit, hell no. But personally I don't like it. Something that mayo over here doesn't seem to realize.
"its a good thing none of you are designing ultrakill or it would suck"
- Arsi ‘Hakita’ Patalla
"You guys should try to come up with some original things to say from time to time"
- Sun Tzu
@@David_Ace_Rej_Ollsan i dont think he said that
@@David_Ace_Rej_Ollsan "i dont think i said that" -Sun Tzu
"I'M GOING TO ULTRAKILL YOU! YOU INSIGNIFICANT FRICK!"
-Gabriel Ultrakill
@@David_Ace_Rej_Ollsan "He didn't say that" - 1,V
its absolutely incredible to me, that he can stare at an 80% dislike ratio on his videos, and _not realize hes the odd man out_
Maby even theodd1out if you now waht i meand
I'm the kind of guy that only uses SSG+Ballista in Doom Eternal, but Ultrakill broke that kind of mentality
How did it do that for you?
Same
Why weren't you using PB+RL?
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer asking the real questions lmao
PB + RL is harder so some people cant do it as easily as SSG + ballista
The real chad quick switching combo is PB + Stickies
@@nucleus691 PB SB takes some real coordination. I genuinely can’t do it. My extent is PB Rockets
My experience with this game as a new player: When I first started playing I almost never used the charge shot on the pistol unless it was to shoot the glass panels.
I was more interested in the movement options and parry system. Being able to slide up stairs, jump off walls and squish a groups of husks if you get enough air was really satisfying on its own. They made avoiding enemy attacks fun. Also being able to parry any attack just made things even better. I almost made it my goal to kill every enemy without shooting a shot because it was just that fun to me.
But then I got to level where you get the shotgun, and the fact that you could parry your own bullets for an instant far reaching blast shot basically negated the pistol for me after that. And only used the shotgun from then on. (I still haven't beaten the game, I'm still on the lust levels. Not cus its hard, just haven't gotten around to finishing)
But what I'm trying to say is that not everyone is gonna come to the "charged pistol shot goes brrr" conclusion that you found. Even going back a using the charge pistol wasn't fun to me, I don't like to have to charge my shots. That's why I never used the charge shot for the shotgun either and switched to the pump shotgun the instant it was available and findings the best way to dodge my own weapon trying to kill me.
This experience was similar for the two other ppl I showed this game to.
It seems like your only taking into account the way you experience the game rather then getting everyone else's experience. You even mentioned how the devs aren't hearing feedback from ppl who drop the game... but, are you? What are there experiences like, I doubt they dropped it cus they had the same experience you did. Only findings this one way of playing just cus it gets you through the game, most ppl I know make fun where there isn't and try other options presented to them.
I understand you like the game and only want to improve it, but your videos only seem to want to improve the game with your own experience as the only basis. I just wanted to give you a different perspective.
(Also sorry for the long tangent)
Also also, I do think the first few levels could be harder... but the hardest difficulties aren't available yet, so I'm sure that's exactly what there working on doing in the future.
ima say this again like i did with the previous video, this comment is good, it hits alot of the right points, and is highly underrated (if the comment blows up disregard this message)
Good comment
good luck with going through lust, I envy you because I wanna feel the same I felt when I played this game first time.
Bro only understands FAXs
...
DOOM is about having fun by winning
Ultrakill is about winning by having fun
Facts
That's literally the other way around dud
Edit: it's been like 9 months and i forgot i made this comment, i don't really care about this whole thing that much so please don't respond, thanks
@@fenison4430 have you played Ultrakill? You get to punch your own shot gun shells to make them more violent, that is the textbook definition of winning by having fun
@@THERATSANDTHERATS Doom is about winning by having fun, if you don't play the fun way, that is switching weapons often and accordingly to the given situation, you will lose, you will not have enough ammo in one weapon to continue, therefore you either die, switch weapons, or chainsaw an enemy, but you can only chainsaw so much until you run out of ammo again.
Truth be told i'm not sure if either of these sentences apply to ultrakill, but i think having fun by winning applies more to UK than doom, but more in the sense of not *just* winning, and more so i think by winning on your own terms if that makes sense, for example, if you want to kill a malicious head just by getting close and shotgunning it, you can do that, but if you wanted to toss a coin behind it and shoot the coin with the railgun to kill it, that works too, neither approach is more viable then the other (shotgunning is slower but also less risky than missing you coin shot).
And yes i have played ultrakill, about 60 on steam if i remember correctly, but i haven't played much since it came into early access, before act 2 came out.
and neither games are bad, Mayo just needs to stop thinking Eternal's game design philosophy needs to be implemented to every single game
When ever I feel like I'm dumb, I just re-watch this video to feel better about myself.
Ultrakill players must regularly feel dumb.
@@underthemayoHa! 2 years later and your still salty. Thank you, you made my day.
@@NSluiter Salt is flavor ;)
@@underthemayo your bland ass wouldn't know flavour if it was made into a whole game
Shut up@@underthemayo
Vids like this are livibg proof that removing the dislike bar was a mistake.
if it helps, the video currently has 5.4k dislikes
theres a free chrome extension that shows dislikes. that's how bad google is at its job
@@ThatBeePerson, how do you know? I believe that, but how can you see the dislikes?
@@tromboneman4517 there is extensions for both chrome (and firefox which I use) that bring back dislike counts. Super helpful because now that so many think dislikes are useless most of the dislikes are people who GENUINELY disliked something
Man's got a stroke from watching the video, plz help this man
The game is fine how it is. The 30,000 positive reviews and 400 negative reviews speak for itself.
And 350 of those negative reviews are because of the lack of sex
@@_xymi
I mean, robo-sex is always good imo
@@_xymiI mean they aren't wrong
While it is quite funny, the joke reviews (according to xymi atleast) inflates the negative view count by EIGHT. If the joke reviews didn't exist then the game might actually have the highest good review-to-bad review ratio on all of steam, or will be VERY close to it
Not really we still waiying for those 2 layers and the p-3
Oh yeah and also who knows what crazy goofy idea hakita is cooking right now
Ok, I will give you that, the idea of starting the coin toss is good.
But there are some problems here, hakita himself said that he doesn't want to limit what weapons the player can or cannot use on the middle of the battleground, that's the reason why he doesn't put limited ammo, trying to enforce this more is just going against the developer vision of their own game
The same values for giving longer cooldowns, it would just limit how you can play the game.
While I agree on the idea of the encounters being harder, I can't state enough that the game is on early access and if I'm not mistaken, there will be more difficulties further more on development.
But I honestly think that there's a problem on how you look at games, you come from the assumption that people are not willing to have fun in games, and that's not how it works.
Whenever someone opens a game, they are willing to engage with the mechanics, the game doesn't need to enforce them on you.
The accurate depiction is: "oh, I can change weapons, that's cool"
Instead of
"I will not change weapons because the game doesn't encourage me to do so"
That's not how people think, when they open a game they are willing to have fun, and not to privatize themselves from the fun for arbitrary reasons.
You play the game with the idea of criticizing it in mind, instead of the idea of enjoying the game, trying to be accurate to the new players experience while doing that is already misleading by itself.
In general I think that there are more problems on how you see games that you're reviewing than there are in the actual games themselves.
Honestly one of the better comments so far.
Below you for me is a guy saying "skill issue" 3 times over in separate comments
Correction, he is spamming the HELL out of the comment section with "skill issue"
@@gamblertheclown7397 already put 2 and 2 together. doesn't make it any less stupid
Litterally real
If I remember correctly, "players won't change weapons" debate came from the GDC lecture on DOOM Eternal.
There, developers talked, that in the DOOM 2016, a decent chunk of people actually played it the boring way, with a shotgun somewhat carrying them through the entire game.
That changed their design perspective to the idea that the player should be trained and PUSHED into the ideal playstyle - and DOOM Eternal become the thing we know.
Mayo tried his best to stretch those ideas onto Ultrakill, and it was going kinda badly. Imo, this video Is good, ideas are interesting, and he took the backlash better than I expected.
You hit the nail on the head. Mayo just doesn't understand that unlike him, there are people out there that have INTRINSIC FUN by experimenting and playing a game the way they want to play, instead of being forced into a particular playstyle.
Tbh forcing the players to play stylishly is a good design principle, but when the intention of the game is to give the player freedom to experiment on their own, any kind of forcing the players into playstyles as opposed to incentives will be a contentious topic in the community
Some of the ideas are not too terrible but personally i have a huuuuge problem with the "near infinite coin toss depending on how high the style meter is" part. Experienced players can already abuse coins to an extend of one shotting nearly any boss/enemie in the game so making coin toss have almost no cooldown with a high style meter would just completely break the games balance.
I think he just means that they recover much faster. Maybe by 1.5 times is balanced enough. And regardless, increasing the cool-down early on means that’s you have to work harder to get to shorter cool-downs. Obviously, rebalancing is in order whenever you implement a fundamental change like this.
50 railcoin per second
Yeah, infinite coins based on style rank is a "Rich get richer" mechanic which sucks
I personally think that the game should be left the way it is and let hakita do his job, but i also think it would be wonderfull to have a "mayo mode" mod for the game that does all those changes
isnt mayo mode called doom eternal
It’s fascinating how you’d rather be forced to be efficient instead of just having fun in a power fantasy.
Much better to earn it then give it to you automatically. keeps the game from becoming stale
@@frozezone2947 you want to “earn” fun? instead of working yourself to achieve it on your own volition? you sound boring as hell lol
When you're older and you've consumed thousands of hours of entertainment, you'll understand. You will want to be put right into the fun, not spend countless hours exploring to find it. Doesn't mean Ultrakill is bad, or that Mayo is right, it's just not the game Mayo and others want.
Hilariously, he says he likes the game himself as it is. He's saying it's harder to realize why the game is fun when the game doesn't force you to actually use the things it gives you. If a player only has to use the pistol, it's easy for that player to think it's boring since they never learned otherwise, because they were never forced to learn otherwise.
@@friendofp.24countless hours = pressing 2 to access your shotgun. good argument
Under The Mayo would probably play something like Max Payne 3 and not even give a shit that Max can shootdodge, shoot while on the move, and activate bullet time because "taking cover and playing like a turtle is the most optimal way to play".
Don't know. I may end up criticizing it, but I also may end up liking it at the same time. Like Ultrakill. I like it a lot, and along have problems with it.
@@underthemayopoint made by another person: you play with criticism in mind. People don’t go “charge shot op me never do other thing again” they go “oh I can charge shot. Neat. What else can I do?”. You however are complaining about YOUR lack of creativity. If your solution to the game is a complete overhaul then fuck off and find something else to play. We love ultrakill as it is, and if you’re not gonna have fun, well that’s your fuckin problem mate. All I can say is stop going “the game must force me to be creative” and give those brain cells that have been dormant since you last drew with your crayons in kindergarten and THINK ABOUT THE COOL SHIT YOU CAN DO INSTEAD OF OPTIMISATION
@@underthemayo”let me play the game like a fucking idiot and only use funni charge shot . Why am I not having fun” USE YOUR BRAIN LIKE A HUMAN BEING AND SWITCH THE GOD DAMN WEAPONS YOU HAVE LIKE 10 OF THEM
@@underthemayoplease git gud
@@underthemayo Dare you to criticize Hollow Knight
the day this man gets his rights to make a game company is the day all hell will break loose
Well he did say he would like to make a survival horror game like Resident Evil 1.
@@hailbane9633 how do you think that will turn out
@@suctioncupman9385 probably good considering he's been a fan of the series since the beginning and has analysed their design in i believe a few videos, let alone probably many more private discussions and what not, which many people who also liked RE games agree with him on.
@@fenison4430 i mean there is a chance but if he wanted to design a shooter game that's like adrenaline pumping i feel he would fail miserably
@DeWidox 01 perhaps
If you force yourself to NOT experiment, you have less fun, the style meter is there as a suggestion, having something to look towards rewarding you with some eye candy, you know youre doing something right, that leads to experimentation. If you just use the piercer and force yourself to just use it, that leads to less style and also a boring playstyle. The style meter is there for a reason and suggests experimentation and fast paced combat, if you decide to ignore it, thats on you buddy.
It's like playing megaman without using any of the robot master weapons.
When you're older and you've consumed thousands of hours of entertainment, you'll understand. You will want to be put right into the fun, not spend countless hours exploring to find it. Me personally, I hardly looked at the style meter at all when I played, only cared about maintaining it when I noticed it was on the Ultrakill tier. A style meter doesn't encourage me to explore as much as dying and being unable to continue does. This doesn't mean Ultrakill is bad, or that Mayo is right, it's just not the game Mayo and others want.
I usually don't like games with style meters, so I played ultrakill's demo normally without making attention to it. Replaying it, I did pay attention to it and did all the things that gave me more score.
I had 3 times more fun
The style meter isn't a suggestion, hard damage stays longer if you don't have high style. Not a very good thing for a game that's supposed to be about you choosing your playstyle.
But the point isn't that you're forcing yourself not to experiment, it's that the game allows you to just use the pistol with no complaints or mishaps for so long that the fun of the game just misses me entirely.
@@logandabrute Oh no Mayo made alt accounts
If that guy will find slab revolver he'd have a heart attack, damn!
lmao theres no way he doens't know about it
@@waffielz3106 You never know what this guy will do next just to purposefuly hate any game that isn't doom eternal.
@@waffielz3106 there is
I like how the same exact issue he tries to "fix" in ultrakill is also in doom eternal. It is completely possible, albeit tedious, to beat nightmare while only using 1 weapon. The games movement system allows you to avoid nearly all damage when used correctly. This exact same point is his MAIN CRITICISM for ultrakill.
Also starting out with the coin gun sounds neat but would be hell to learn without the warmup the piercer gives you.
You could say this about nearly any FPS.
The difference is that Doom Eternal both punishes you for using only one gun and actively rewards you for regularly using other guns. And it starts doing this extremely early.
While yes you can theoretically, but it is incredibly difficult and can only be done by a very skilled player, the dlc also just makes that impossible since certain weapons are required to kill enemies, his point was that the game doesn't properly punish you for using 1 weapon the entire time, I swear to god you can make fair criticism against his video but why do you choose to simply misunderstand his basic points
@@LanceOmikron I’d argue Ultrakill punishes you more
@@hermancrab1984
You’re joking, right?
@@hermancrab1984 How so?
Mayo will understand someday, that Ultrakill is a Slasher, not Arcade shooter.
It's more of a sandbox combat experience. Emphasis on sandbox.
@@junkoenoshima6756 isnt this what slasher is more or less?
Slasher **Film** (you're the danger)
Real
I think one of the key issues is trying to make something cooler than it is. Ultrakill isn't for everyone, that's the thing. None of these changes really help that much, if there are issues with engagement (which I would contest) they're more fundamental as opposed to people being able to spam the piercer. I don't really think many people are doing that, rather it's more the shotgun that is slightly over centralising, but i think that's a non-issue.
If someone finds it really hard to understand that using things other than the piercer may help them get past a difficulty spike, then frankly that's an issue outside the spectrum of game design. I barely play any shooters, but Ultrakill managed to hook me in and make me understand what to do, when and why, so I think it does a good job and doesn't really need tweaking.
Amen brother
And ironically, ultrakill has more accessibility than games like Doom Eternal, that mayo defends so much, with having the lower difficulties, from something so easy as lenient, the aim assist, or the mayor assists. There is a reason this game is one of the top 10 in steam
I think the point here is that the fun aspect increases if the player is pushed to improve on their performance. If the player has no hard incentive to improve there won't be any improvement -> leading to less fun.
Before act 2 came out I played through the entire game P ranking every level and beating minos with S (1sec too slow)
But once act 2 came out I realised how little I swap weapons, resulting in style C whatever I did. I actually started using the railgun in combination with coins and performed a nuke for the first time mid combat since then. I honestly wouldn't be doing this if the style meter would work as it did before, and my satisfaction increased for it too.
@@sirdocc6735 I honestly love the new style meter ngl, it feels like I'm "spending" actions for style and it's really cool lol. Probs doesn't hurt that I grew up on tycoon games where the dopamine rush comes from buying and generating cash lol. Here I generate style and plan around refreshing the style of used weapons with other guns and it's great; far more intuitive and strategic than that old "freshness based on time" meter pre wrath update (that version was so easy to ignore it might as well not have existed lol).
@@sirdocc6735 The problem with "hard incentive" is that y'all treat gamers like babies, you know people can make their own little objective in a game, "im going to beat this stealth game without killing anyone", you will gain nothing from it but you will because it sounds fun or challenging, i think most people that play DMC or ultrakill want ot get good just to be able to pull of cool shit, and what reward would the game give you? "if you improve you get this red lolipop"
Making early levels more challenging will sure alienate new audience. "Let's force players to shoot coins right from the start. Let's force players who still aren't used to controls, physics, enemies, etc play around style meter. Let's force parrying". It's overload. And imagine new players coming to the game - "I wanted to shoot enemies, but the game forces me to shoot coins. What is this?" You suggestions aren't targeted at new audience at all.
I don't think he's saying it has to be an "all or nothing' scenario. Like, just a *bit* more of an intensity ramp-up. Because He kind of has a point, you know? The first few levels are pretty easy. And then you get to V2, and that's where a lot of people trying out the game never got past. It'd be better if it was more of a linear progression in difficulty than an exponential one.
@@beautifulmanstan8840 They're easy so you can get a grip and experiment. V2 isn't even that bad if you know the game mechanics that you've been nudged into using.
Yeah he is talking shit about THE FUCKING TUTORIAL LEVELS as if in DE the marauder appeared in the first 5 minutes of the game or something lmao
@@AubergineWomans and here where the problem comes brother not many learn the mechanics because of how easy the game was before V2
@@debashisprasadjena5075 Yeah, and then they can't get past V2 and then learn the mechanics. Or scrape by and then figure it out.
if underthemayo says a game sucks,it’s probably good
@@thewretchedspawn-q1s enjoy phantom fury, devil may cry 2, starfield, Redfall, and resident evil 6 then
@@underthemayo u literally just said ultrakill is in the league of these games. Ultrakill is NOT that bad idk what ur on about
@@underthemayoyou still on this shit, this has to be the worst game review I’ve seen it’s quite literally in the same tier as the gaming journalist who couldn’t get past the cuphead review, you call everything “piercer spam” I haven’t seen you use another weapon than the pistol, it literally TELLS you mechanics. Maybe get off the doom eternal glaze and understand this game is not at all what you think it is
@@underthemayoresident evil 6 was pretty good but your ungrateful ass cant enjoy anything lol
About the ammo limit point, if you’re new to the game or even just accidentally drop a combo or get hit a bit in battle, that could easily strand you because you don’t have enough ammo to build up style and you don’t have enough style to get ammo, thus making the game impossible for newer players
Then have limited general ammo pickups here and there that you can ignore once you're good.
@@underthemayo it breaks the flow of combat though, and what if you run out of ammo packs before you clear the room? It would make the play style difference between beginners and pros even more drastic because beginners would be scrambling around getting hit just to get ammo and pros would be actually playing the game not ever having to worry about it
If you had regenerating ammo it would be balanced so you can just switch to another gun while the first gun regens. Obviously something would have to be done for the first 2 levels where you don't have the shotgun, but otherwise it would just make people switch their guns when starting out
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 I do really like the idea of making the marksman the default, and with that maybe making the marksman ammo infinite, but not the coins? I think we should probably just let hakita finish making the game
@@underthemayo well then that counters your argument you made in the video saying (and yeah i know im probably paraphrasing here) "adding an ammo mechanic would make this game too much like doom eternal" adding in ammo pickups (like DE has) would only exacerbate that issue, so at that point it kinda becomes an all or nothing deal, either make it way more like DE, ruining the uniqueness the game has from doom eternal, or leave it be and let it keep it's uniqueness
oh boy, this should go over well!
Umm. Hum
I sure hope no one takes this valid criticism from someone who admires the game out-of-context :]
@@mattc7420 it isn't valid criticism. most of it is extremely shit and doesn't function well from a game design standpoint
@@azurite6421 Its just your opinion and its stated in an infantile manner, which says a lot about you as a person. Have a nice day!
@@renedan7247 it would literally almost break the game, near infinite coin tosses depending on your style meter will not work
Limited ammo, in ultrakill is like if Dante’s sword had durability you wouldn’t be trying to kill your enemies with combos you would just be trying to kill them as fast as possible, which is what the creator of ultrakill said
Everyone bring up sword durability but I don't get it. If a sword breaks, it's gone and you can't use it anymore. Limited ammo in a shooter like this just means pick up more in the room, or use a mechanic to get ammo back just like you get health back by shooting enemies up close.
@@underthemayo I understand where you’re coming at, but I think what he was trying to say is limited ammo just wouldn’t work because he wants you to try to do combos and practice with the guns more but if you do want limited ammo, there is a mod that adds it so if you want, you can just check that out there is also alternate guns that can make the guns more powerful or just different entirely
@@underthemayothere's also a lore reason for the infinite ammo since the guns use energy heat and other things instead of traditional ammo
1- beginners start with the pierceshot because it's simple, almost everyone immediately knows what it does when getting to the glass corridors in the very first level, the coin revolver is stylish and awesome, but would be confusing for someone who literally just started shooting baddies, until the end of lvl1 which counts as a tutorial (of the tutorial)
2-i liked the idea of shortening cooldown in higher styles but i feel like the cooldowns are already so short
3-mayo acknowledging the mayo any% got me the biggest smile
Literally starting simple and building on that is game design 101
You toss a coin and then shoot it.
@@TheRadioSquare "but why would I throw and then shoot a tiny coin if I can just shoot the face right front of me which is about to bite me?" - normal person starting the game, who would forget the coins immediately, and then unequip the marksman immediately after unlocking the piercer for the rest of the game because "the piercer is clearly just an upgrade to the marksman, why would the game make me pay for something which is worse"
@@packediceisthebestminecraf9007 Because when you got the gun I told you to throw the coin and shoot at it.
If we wanna be obtuse "why would I ever use charge shot, it's so unnatural. Why would I charge the beam when I can just kill enemies by shooting at them? Or maybe I should do nothing but charge it? But then I can't get the style going!"
If you assume the player is braindead, it doesn't matter what you give them, they will be too braindead to understand anything.
@@TheRadioSquare what do you mean, the charge shot is really useful for clearing large groups of enemies, which is something you actually need to do in the early levels. Unlike trying to shoot the coin, it's easy to use and useful immediately: the enemies you face early game don't have enough hp for you to notice that coins are good for doing damage, you can one or two shot them all. Coins just aren't effective at anything in the start, and learning to use the movement and how to heal effectively is already enough for lots of players. Also, it probably helps that you need to buy the marksman, because it shows you that it has more value than the piercer.
A player not using coins in the start is not a braindead player, it's a reasonable one. A player not using the charge shot in the start is not necessarily braindead either, and is just learning what is effective and what isn't at a slower pace.
"Here we are in a non-confrontational video with no digs at the fanbase..."
1:21
**Proceeds to dig at the fanbase**
A comment in the video has more likes than the video, this man is the definition of L+ratio'd
Also this video itself already have 3.9k dislike as well KEK
@@Test-mq8ih the power of chrome extensions 🙏
Yeah one comment has like 4.4k against the 1.8k of the video rn holy shit, how is it possible to have an take this bad.
Dub on his part for not hiding comments, I respect that
Your idea to make the coin toss the first starting weapon is definitely an interesting one. However, I feel that might be a mistake depending on the new player getting into ULTRAKILL. You gotta consider that the coin toss is probably the most complex weapon in the game, and putting that in the hands of the player may set up false expectations for what is to come. This is why I prefer the Piercer as a starting weapon, it's a revolver with a simple but strong beam attack. That's a much easier weapon to wrap your head around than the coin toss for players that may know less about boomer shooters and quakelikes.
i mean that could change with the 3 varietion off the pistol and like i dont think a new player would know how complex the marksman is until they finish the game
At the same time, I think instilling the habit of using coins early and properly tutorialising it, mostly fixes that issue.
Coin toss starter sounds good
@@Auvisome Good thing you get the marksman in literally the second level of the game
You dont know how many people quit Doom Eternal for whatever reason either be it for poor communication or just no fun facor for them, should Doom Eternal make changes for those players as well? Why do you want everyone to be like you? Elden ring wasnt for you so why should this be?
I think the fact Ultrakill is ranked nr.10 on Steam is a pretty good indicator that the game is as good as it can be for new and old players
Finally! A well structured argument! A+
indeed, i guarantee the amount of players who quit doom eternal because of the restrictive ammo management and the various "restrictive" changes to how weapons work compared to how they did in doom 2016 - is much higher compared to people quitting ultrakill. yet mayo never said to change those mechanics, even if a lot of people disliked it.
i bet just the marauder made people quit DE more than ultrakill ever did with its freeform-style gameplay, yet to my knowledge marauder hasn't been changed since he was introduced, apart from bugfixes i guess
infact i think i remember in one of his doom eternal videos he actually PRAISED doom eternal for taking a stand on controversial mechanics and saying its not about just making a game that sells well (cod or any mil shooter) but about having good and original gameplay, which both doom eternal and ultrakill provide
Best comment on here, If someone made a video like this on doom eternal he'd say that they're just bad at the game or playing it wrong.
No, because games are like food and people eat different foods. If you make something no one hates, then you also make something no one loves.
Mayo, I think that the issues you have with Ultrakill is that it's fundamentally different from the games you enjoy the most. Ultrakill is a game that works around positive reinforcement; giving the player a big ol' hit of dopamine for playing well. Doom Eternal is a game that works around negative reinforcement, "you're going to play this certain way or you're going to have a bad time." You've made it clear, especially with your Elden Ring fiasco, that you don't want to engage with a game's systems unless you're forced to do so. Don't pretend like its the fault of the game, or the designer.
Plus, you probably ought to issue a retraction on your self-fellating claim that you and only you made the game better because Hakita decided to change how hard damage works.
So many people took that obvious bait, it's really funny. Keep the laughs coming.
@@underthemayo IDK man, kinda smacks of that "I was only pretending to be stupid!" meme.
@@underthemayoand that, mayo, is why we hate you.
"The game would be more popular"
My brother in christ, Ultrakill is the 10th highest rated game on all of steam
but thats not 1st
Yea but how bout player numbers or actual. Sales
@@resena9087 Approximately 1.1 million units sold
@@resena9087 if it is 10th rated of all steam, i feel that should be indicative of how popular the game is lol.
Like that is no laughing matter for an indie game in early acces. As for sales lasti check it sold 1 million units
@@TwistedScarlett60 that is amazing for an indie game
I do appreciate you actually talking about your opinion normally instead of making overly long skits and being cocky the entire time. However there's 2 things you need to understand.
1 - the target audience of the game.
Ultrakill is not going to be a person's first shooter or even their first boomer shooter. Similarly to how in a Medtroidvania anyone knows that the main way of progression is via gathering abilities and items and backtracking to rooms where those can be used, anyone will understand just by looking at Ultrakill's name and trailer, what you are supposed to be doing.
2 - the main reason why people like this game.
The whole point of this game is not to play in a stylish way, it's the freedom it gives you to achieve stylish play. This game uses the complete opposite philosophy of Doom - where if you go against the way devs want you to play it, you get punished. In Ultrakill you will never get punished for playing in an unintended way, instead you simply get incredibly rewarded for playing the intended way. The main point of the game is the Freedom of how you can play it. My first playthrough I only used weapons other than the shotgun when I absolutely needed them (didn't know about projectile boosts either), and I still had a blast playing the game and managed to pull of somewhat stylish things regardless. And now I'm riding rockets around and making 5 inputs per second to nuke every poor soul I see. Not all games need to force the player to learn every mechanic imaginable in order to achieve progress, sometimes it's good to just give the player a sandbox.
The whole thing about your Ultrakill reviews - if we go by the very textbook definitions of game design, or show them to a college professor specialized in game design who's never played the game, they will be correct. But that's why a good portion of the best games the world has seen, are made by people who've never touched a game-design book in their life. There's more to games than just textbook definitions.
I know this is two years old but tbh ULTRAKILL was my first shooter lol (and its one if my fav games)
"I'm unapologetic about this. This isn't about compromise and listening to every dissenting voice. We're pushing for something here, we're pushing for player accountability and gameplay systems that mean something {...} Don't be afraid to simply say "no I think you're wrong on this and I hope you don't get what you want". If you believe in this kind of gameplay, advocate for it! *_And hope that those who are against it fail_*. There's plenty of other games they can enjoy if they don't get their way."
- Under the Mayo 2022
I came here for the comments and I can’t believe I once unironically agreed with his statement 😂
This sounds like a horrible idea. Doom Eternal, his favorite game, did not operate under this philosophy at all, I’m willing to bet.
God removing Dislikes were the dumbest thing
3:43 the Piercer can only pierce through up to 3 enemies, the Shotgun's various explosions however will damage everything in the explosion radius, and the game forces you to use Core Eject to get out of the Swordsmachine arena so you know you have an explosive shot in your arsenal. This means these groups of filths that took you multiple Piercer shots to kill would only take one to take down if you used the right tool for the job. The game teaches you about Core Eject right as you get the shotgun by forcing you to break the wall to exit the Swordsmachine arena.
To be fair the game doesn't really inherently "teach" you much of anything. It gives you the tools and goes "figure it the fuck out loser lmao" and honestly I am all for it. I do however agree that the beginning of the game is significantly weaker than the later portions (and I don't just mean in difficulty.) As it does a pretty awful job at giving you really good reasons to experiment with the already limited tools you have at your disposal
@@YBnormal1337 I mean in this case the game does go out of its way to let you know you now have an explosive weapon in your arsenal. Yes it doesn't teach you Projectile Boosting or Core Sniping but you still know you have this in your arsenal, and the enemy placement in the following sections of the level literally beg to be blown up.
As for experimenting, that really is up to the player if they want to use the new additions to their arsenal. If you want to keep using the Piercer and have a mediocre time that's on you, but if you've been using your weapons with a little creativity you would've already noticed that Overpump is a thing you can do that deals massive damage, you can setup some pretty good AoE with Overheat and magnets, or that Marksman splitshots are a thing. Sure you're not gonna learn stuff like coin-adding on your own, but you can find a lot on your own.
Ultrakill loves its player and appreciates his decisions.
Do you want to learn the basics? You are given really low and forgiving difficulty levels. With the same weapon, you can go to a higher difficulty.
Do you feel that you are not coping? There is an "assist mode" where you can adjust the difficulty of bosses and the damage done (even the speed of the game, if you want).
Do you feel that you are ready? You will receive a test worthy of you.
Do you want more? Complete all the levels on P-Rank.
Is it not enough for you? There are 2 more difficulties ahead of you, and I sincerely believe that they will be wonderful. (also Cybergrind)
Even Gabriel, as a very interesting character, begins to behave like V1, seeing some rationality in his actions. (V1 literally (ultra)kills everything, it's an unstoppable force)
You forge your victory.
You deserve your victory.
The game respects your victory, so you respect this game. The ideal does not require changes.
And also gotta love how the story is kinda 50/50 split with you playing as V1 and Gabriel finding himself and realizes he was just a Puppet of a long dead god and ends up going against the higher power and freeing heaven from the lies of the council.
That ending really surprised me that's for sure.
“Do you feel that you are ready? You will receive a test worthy of you” actually kind of goes really hard.
This needs more likes
under the mayo is incapable of internalizing the concept of intrinsic motivation
Your gameplay makes this look like the IGN Doom eternal review.
So you want the style meter to make ammo infinite
So in the way you'd play, you'd run out of ammo
bro came up with the best comeback I’ve ever heard
jerma strat 💀
if this actually got added, mayo would probably like
"too hard"
ultrakill subreddit gonna have a real good time with this one
Yeah bc these ideas are dogshit
Redditors having a "good time" lol that's funny
🤓
Redditorino’s opinion matters so much! 🤓
@@someguy9970 I mean if it’s the Ultrakills community, yeah of course it’ll matter a bit more lol
Damage control: The video
this guy is an adult and has the understanding ability of a child
@@AzazelFox he's the child here
@@AzazelFox you wrote 7 comments trying to defend this guy's review. Think about that
That's an insult to not only children, but all living beings. I have curtains smarter than mayo.
Bro, that's very insulting to children
The name “Under The Mayo” refers to his intelligence, a jar of mayonnaise is smarter than him.
Saying that early game players wouldn’t want to use the Shotgun because it does a similar thing to the Piercer makes no sense. Both are designed to kill groups of enemies, but the Shotgun’s Core Eject is much better at doing this. Piercer can only kill three enemies at a time, and they have to be lined up in the first place. The way the Shotgun is introduced tells this to the player by having them immediately kill a large group of Filth in much less time than the Piercer ever could. Of course, the Revolver is still better at long range, so players will be incentivized to switch weapons depending on what distance the enemy is at. This is also how the Nailgun is introduced: by immediately spawning a Malicious Face. This teaches the player that the Face has a weapon specific weakness (something that Mayo claimed to be unaware of in his first video) and it encourages players to switch to the Nailgun when dealing with larger threats.
It seems weird that he would be talking about the Piercer - the weakest weapon in the game - as if players would want to only use it despite being both told and shown that there are much better options. Hell, the Piercer is so weak that the game literally has an alternate form of the Revolver that mostly exists to buff the Piercer and keep it relevant. Is the alt weapon a secret? Yes. However, it is nearly impossible for the player to not figure out how to unlock it since the game makes its unlock conditions very obvious.
Saying that the Piercer is overpowered is like saying that the Sticky Bombs in Doom Eternal are overpowered. Could you beat the game only using that weapon mod and occasionally the chainsaw for ammo refills? Yes. Will any sane player do that? No. Why? For the same reason no player in ULTRAKILL will stick to the Piercer for the whole game: it’s dull, ineffective, and a clear case of self sabotage.
Also, you need to rank up your style points more, try switching weapons from time to time, it’s disgusting the way you play!
I think the style meter itself kinda incentivizes you to swap weapons and use them properly, with all the bonuses that are named. Ultrakill wants the player to be commited to it and assumes the player is intelligent enough to learn the game and experiment with it, at least I think so.
Small edit: Most of the movement and gun tech are glitches so I don't really know how would the game communicate that with you besides the terminal entries that kinda tell you these cool things. Again, game assumes you want to learn.
Maybe something like Celeste with a mini tutorial when you get the gun? I played through all of act 1 without knowing about rail gun ricochet's or projectile boosting and I only found out about combos after join g fhe community.
I doubt most players are going to do that. Style meter could do something more though. Like an announcer, or make enemies explode in confetti. Or a power up.
I started caring about style after I fell in love with the game but at the start it felt like it was mocking me.
@@desuordie4856 Learning what you can do and experimenting with it is the whole point of the game.
@@desuordie4856 Yeah but then the "I CAN DO THAT?!?!?" feeling is kinda gone.
@@desuordie4856 The Terminal now includes extra info on weapons that includes basic tech/interactions.
@@desuordie4856 it kinda does that already by putting you in a situation where it would be useful, like showing how the shotgun is generally much better at dealing single target with a small ramp up of a regular fight, and then once you are used to it you get swordsmachine, a boss where using shotgun excels.
also the enemies already technically explode into confetti if you consider gore and blood showering a form of confetti
Ultrakill has a style meter to let you experiment with weapons. It’s not just a pistol fest. I mean, you get a variety of weapons that all combo together.
Why bother using all those weapons if the game don't push you to use em
@@frozezone2947 Then dont bother. Seriously dont use the cool explosive shotgun, the nail gun with burst fire, the railgun that can shoot a drill. Dont experiment. Stay boring
Or you can, you know, use them.
@@frozezone2947 because it's more fun than spamming lmb with the default revolver.
@@frozezone2947 to have fun? Like, why play video games if u arent having fun anyways?
@@frozezone2947 Doesnt push you? My guy thats literally the point of the style meter and the Ranking System. Just using your pistol on a level spamming LMB til the end you're bound to get a D in style at best. And if you still dont realize that you should experiment using other weapons to rack up your style meter after that then thats on you.
The game doesn't have to punish you for only using the pistol, its a game thats part of accessibility. If your concept of fun is spamming LMB then go for it. The game rewards you for racking up your style meter and doing cool techs.
TL;DR
Why should the game push you, its a sandbox shooter designed to do the most crackhead stuff imaginable with your array of weapons. If you dont realize to do that after seeing your style meter not going up, thats on you. The game doesn't have to punish you for not being creative. This is a game not an exam.
I think the problem is that you view "new players" as "game journalists who can't play any challengeing games". most actual people will use the other weapons just because they're cool. most actual people will use more than just one weapon because it's cool, and it kills faster, which is cool. This is also an idie game exclusive to pc so the general audiance is going to be more aware of how games work and are generally better than average at other games.
Honestly had never EVER seen people play with only piercers, mfs have a brain, course they gon mix weapons
I just picked this game up earlier this week, so this is coming for a new player. I thought this game did a great job of introducing new mechanics at a good rate. While some equipment felt super over powered or redundant, I find myself going into the later levels and changing up my play styles. I can't beat every level with just one weapon. Changing items makes the game fun. If the game forced me into these play styles, I would've put it down very fast. I love that there's no rules on how to play, it's pure gaming at its finest. The style meter is just a bit of dopamine on top of the actions that *I'm* performing.
yeah one thing i often say about ultrakill, is it feels VERY arcade-ie, and this is emblematic of that, it's just there to let you dick around, have fun, and be that stylish, creative, badass, blood bathin, bot that you are
You are not forced to experiment, you are encouraged. Thats why I like this game
"its a good thing none of you are designing ultrakill or it would suck"
-Hakita
Yo. Late arrival and recent Ultrakill player here. I'd like to share my thoughts even though they probably won't be seen.
When I first started the game, I found the piercer to be underpowered, actually. Sure, the pierce shot was useful but enemies had to be lined up just right in order to get more than a few. All the enemies were low health and the piercer actually seemed more like a single-target weapon to me. When I finally obtained the shotgun, it felt like a big upgrade because I had actual area damage and could kill grouped up filth a lot more easily. In addition, the pump charge mod gave fantastic burst damage for the first boss (Cerberus).
Part of it is that Ultrakill isn't meant to be a game where you struggle all of the time. Certainly there are moments where you struggle and further challenges you can aspire to, but primarily the game is about speed. Having the highest DPS, moving the fastest, clearing levels in record time. Pulling off stylish tricks isn't just cool and fun, style also gives you a measure of how well you're doing in terms of _speed_, not survival.
Even when I was first starting out I had no issue playing with style because my goal was not just to achieve victory, but to do it fast. I'd jump and dash around because that's cool. I'd break glass under enemies over a grinder because it's both fast and fun to shred eight filth in an instant. I'd use the core eject to detonate groups of enemies. I'd use the piercer charge as single target damage because it counts as three shots.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that *I didn't play stylishly in order to have fun, I played to have fun and that ended up being stylish.*
I feel like Under The Mayo goes his local Coffee shop to order a plain black coffee, then complains that It sucks because he's not being incentivised to order anything else.
I don't drink coffee. And coffee isn't a game.
@@underthemayoThat has to be the most Nerd ass response to a comment i've ever seen.
@@underthemayome when I can't comprehend an analogy (never):
Mayo is the kind of guy to say “I’m not going to shower because there’s nothing to incentivise it”
Dislike to like ratio as of commenting:
1.4k likes
5.3k dislikes
ouch man.
Edit:
1.5k likes
7.1k dislikes
I think having the coin be the starter weapon would overwhelm new players to the point that many more would quit before they got most of the other stuff
Honestly true, I didn't even know what that coin gun did at the first place until I saw somebody doing it
and there it is, my counterargument to the "starting with the coin gun first" argument, written in words exactly
@@Thonato420 Have a tutorial explaining what the gun does?
@@hailbane9633 issue is its useless in the start due to the nature of the husk being a 1 shottable spammed enemy
When I got the Marksman revolver, even on the demo, which is free, i instantly said "nope, I'm not going to shoot a coin" even though the coin has a pretty big hitbox, so, if that weapon was the beginning one, i would have most likely stop playing
wow i cant believe we all agree that adding ammo is a shit opinion
he responds to some comments and when someone makes a pont he just ghosts it
You gonna be okay?
@@underthemayo tf does that mean
@@underthemayo that's the equivalent of someone saying they're pregnant and you asking if they like cheesebuger in response
@@IDrankVinegar I worry about the mental health of ultrakill players. They're uniquely troubled.
@@underthemayo
Are you okay, Peter Griffin?
While I greatly appreciate the more civil tone of this video, and I actually agree with and understand several of the points you're making here (starting with the Marksman in particular), I still don't think many of these changes are needed.
From what I can tell, you are a very extrinsically-motivated player - you want the game to set a hard roadblock in your way you need to overcome before moving on, and then you want to experience the satisfaction of overcoming it. However, a lot of Ultrakill's challenge (especially early on) doesn't come from the mandatory requirements, but instead from the optional challenges players can attempt. As soon as I saw that you were being graded on your performance on levels, I wanted to try to push those grades up as far as I could, and I replayed several Prelude levels before moving onto Layer 1. From what I can tell, most other players approach this game in the same way, and your approach when you first started (seeing the only challenge as "beat each level", and ignoring secrets or style unless they're making beating the level harder) is something that very few players will attempt.
That's not at all what extrinsic means and you seem to deliberately bend how you paint the two different approaches.
The satisfaction of overcoming a challenge is not extrinsic cause it doesn't come from outside the player. The player encounters something difficult that puts their abilities to the test and is then satisfied when they are able to overcome it.
Meanwhile, the way you described score attacking is entirely extrinsic cause it comes from the game giving you a nicer rating. The game's design doesn't push you to do better, the arbitrary point/rank reward does.
While Mayo tried to argue his points about how players might play the game by rooting it in the game's design, your counter just seems to be "most people won't play like you" with no actual argument, just "from what I can tell." That's the problem. He talks about encouraging the player to play stylishly right away instead of hoping that they're already on board or get into it by themselves at some point.
@@TheRadioSquare Your last point is exactly why most people don't like Mayo and their views, I think. I'm one who is undergoing that phase: Getting into the real meat and potatoes of the game and wanting to go for style a tad more now. Trying to get the player to do the optional challenges right off the bat isn't what you want to do, because some people won't want to try playing stylishly off the bat. They want to play a nice and simple game first and foremost, and when they discover what they CAN do and how it's more effective, efficient, etc, then they go back and apply it and have loads more fun. It both raises the replay value of earlier levels and it makes new stuff have a purpose back before it was discovered, as well as pushing people to adapt to situations facing them now and upcoming challenges by facing them with a new take on the formula by incorporating style into the mix.
I think most players play a game to finish the level. The stages aren't difficult enough to force any style to compete. I think I got mainly B and Cs, then I thought, that was really boring and easy, then never played again.
There was no real incentive to go back and get S ranks or whatever because the entire thing was a dull affair, even getting low style ranks, everything died pretty instantly, even the bosses were over within a minute.
@@UltimaDoombotMK1 The style is not optional. Ultrakill is a rather easy and boring shooter if you don't go for style, and the game doesn't encourage it with anything other than a grade.
Same as with the other guy, your argument doesn't have substance. You describe an experience that might happen to somebody for some reason, not an experience that someone will have based on something tangible like the game's design.
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer Well, opinions are opinions. You think everything dying fast is dull as it provides no challenge, most would like everything dying fast since it creates a sense of power over the puny enemies. But to each their own: you deserve to have an opinion and not be judged for it. Have a fantastic day, good sir/madam
Wow you have such a hidden talent on correcting good games. You should keep it hidden.
He’s literally videogame German guy
mayo you 100% are the only one who plays a game by igoring the fun tools given them. I guarantee 100% that everyone who picked up the shotun started using it. Most people engage with the parry system, the air slams, the slide boosts, and the weapon combos because they are FUN. And most people play Ultrakill to have FUN.
Not true dude lol, you're going off a bias sample size. Plus I had his problem too when I started out but different. I picked up the shotgun and never used anything else.
yup, there it is, fun, that's the key thing right there to keep in mind, this game is centric to it's gameplay, freedom of choice, and of course, style, so obviously you'd WANT to have FUN with all of this, to do so otherwise, to handicap your own enjoyment, is just dumb, if you think something's unfun, dont do it, and if you think the piercer spam is unfun and cheesy, well how do you think OTHER people feel? yknow, the people who play TO have fun? they're gonna play with whatever's fun for them best they can, and if the game is too hard for them to have fun, they'll just turn the difficulty down, so they CAN have fun, all in all, if they have the goal of having fun, they're gonna do everything the game allows them to, TO have fun, they dont need to be forced to have fun, they dont need the fun be locked behind a skill barrier, the game just has to present it as an option
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 he said 100% started using shotguns and MOST engage with etc, he literally described you... you used only shotgun and where in the not most people category
@@xx_amongus_xx6987 i remember using shotgun swapping to go through all the layers. Then i found core nukes and the sawblades and it snowballed into me learning all the weapons
Under the mayo when the game doesn't kidnap your family and hold them at gunpoint to pressure you into playing well
Go find the alternate weapons
Oh no a game isn’t exactly how I want it!!?1?1!?1?1 oh no!!1!1!1!!1
I think an in game tip system like what Doom Eternal has would do absolute wonders for this game. Hack and slash games like Devil May Cry have in game video examples of how to pull off combos or button sequences, even fighting games have this. Something like that in Ultrakill would be hugely beneficial for newer players that need more guidance.
true devil may cry 3 has that and its hakita favourite game i think it could help
The game has something like this. When you open the shop you always get greeted with a game tip. To be fair, most players (including me) missed that.
Good idea for Projectile Boosting/Core Eject shooting/Core Eject Malicious.
Stuff like Railcoin should come from player creativity, because it's not exactly a separate technique but a clever usage of a previous technique. It's like DMC3 never told players you can use jump cancel to chain air combo.
@@3.002 yeah but who reads the terminals hints lol i literally forgot they existed same thing goes for the weapon hints which are under the LORE OFF THE GUN like who expects that the weapon tips are under the lore off the gun
@@heliax9924 Pretty sure it's now separated into INFO and TIPS
Dude, maybe stop playing the game like Doom and play it like, I don’t know, the game it ACTUALLY is???
"The Game Is Bad Because I Play It Badly"
-This Whole Review In Summary
This game is great, what are you talking about?
@@underthemayo It's more, "I was bad at the game so these changes should be implemented so I don't have to admit that I was bad." because you can't seem to swallow your pride and admit when you're the issue instead of the game because id software said they liked your videos once so suddenly you're a game designer.
@@loading...4091 Of course I was bad. That's the point. I was playing badly and the game just let me get away it with. It wasn't until the cybergrind and Act 2 that I started playing better and enjoying the game. I totally fine admitting I was bad. That's the whole point. I was bad, I wanted the game to make me get good, and it just didn't. Not for a long time.
@@underthemayo if the game gives you a new weapon and you ignore it, that's your fault, not the game's.
the background gameplay is honestly hilarious
my guy is running up to enemies and left clicking with shotgun
If that's a bad way to play, make me stop. ;)
@@underthemayo beat p-2 like that and I'll subscribe
That should stop you for the next few decades
He plays the game as if it’s a doom clone
I find it funny that you are talking about the mass appeal and the new players when ultrakill is already one of the best rated games out there.
People can cry all they want. But the thing that will never change is the ratings on a great game.
ULTRAKILL doesnt need to force style because style is the focus of the game already. You *can* use just the pistols for everything but that takes away from the fun of ULTRAKILL which isnt just "how to beat level" its "how do I find the craziest combination of weapons to use to rip through enemies". And you *can* just go through act 1 with just a pistol and shotgun and get C ranks across the board but then you go back and you already know how to kill everything with just a pistol and shotgun. So you start using new things and start finding new ways to kill things.
And a good incentive to play stylishly is to get to the prime sanctums which require you to P rank all of the levels in an act which forces style. Then through that learning of how to P rank and get style you learn how to use every gun to its fullest.
Basically every gun has some niche it covers and covers super well which allows all to be used in combination to maximize style AND killing effectiveness. Sharpshooter can one shot maurice's and be used to deal lots of damage on targets in a confined area, SRS Cannon can one shot cerberi, Mal cannon can make NUKES, and so much more. And yes, not all of this is very straightforward and would be super easy to find out on a first time run but a lot of the fun in ULTRAKILL is finding these crazy techniques.
ULTRAKILL doesnt need to force style because ULTRAKILL is centered around it. If you don't want to be stylish that's not the games fault.
Mayo I used to like your content, but you have a misunderstanding of the core gameplay and are calling for it to change to suit your interests instead of finding a game that already suits you and that’s not right. It’s like calling for an easy mode in a Souls game, or saying that DooM Eternal shouldn’t force you to change weapons on the fly or use the chainsaw. You’re not part of the core audience of this game and yet you’re calling for the game to change in a way that the core audience dislikes to suit your own interests and that’s hypocritical considering you’ve defended DooM’s “fun zone” from criticisms that parallel your own with this game.
Honestly I feel like this is how you should have approached the topic from the very beginning. Maybe you wouldn't have been receiving so much hate, but considering that the internet is full of mindless people who believe you're literally not allowed to have an opinion different from theirs, it probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference.
The constructive criticism and ideas need to be the forefront of this kind of video, rather than long sketches about how people want (probably one of their top creators on the platform) to talk about a game they almost definitely love equally to another game (that I won't mention the name of for the sake of not incurring the wrath of god) that you love probably as much as they do this one.
I'd recommend trying not to appear as if you're talking down to fans and then being surprised when people don't take it very kindly. (Not saying you actually are, or doing it intentionally. I though will fully admit it came off a bit like that in the first few videos you've made talking about it.)
The only reason people are mad is because he is being a bit of a hypocrite when talking about Ultrakill. He says that the game sucks because he can only use the beginning pistol and beat most of the game even though there are tons of weapons that he could also use. But the thing is he’s made videos that people are playing Doom Eternal “wrong” by only using one weapon. Do you see the hypocrisy here?
@@squishyman959 Bro doesn't even say it sucks, he just takes the piss way too much for it to be called legit criticism. He has legit gripes with the game that could or could not be solved by some optional settings being added for him and people with similar preferences. He isn't even entirely wrong about most of what he says, he just says it with a bit too much confidence and with a tiny bit of condescension that could (and kinda does) taint the actual message he's trying to convey.
@@squishyman959 I haven't seen his Ultrakill review but when did he specifically say you are 'Wrong' to use only one weapon in Doom Eternal?
@@squishyman959 Mayo fell off heavily, he used to be pretty good but as of recently, he's just become an annoying mf who thinks he's better than everyone because he has a YT channel with 100k subscribers. I don't even like ultrakill yet all of the videos he's made on it make me cringe because of the shit he says in them.
The video he made on doom eternal haters was horrible as well, it was just him whining about how people who don't like doom eternal are wrong because they have an opinion that isn't "Doom eternal is the best fps game of all time!!"
Alternative title: how to turn ultrakill into doom eternal
I really like the idea of starting with coin toss. The first time I played I remember it took me while to start even considering its uses so that would have went a long way
I’ve become super reliant on the coins as a fall back option, within my combat flow. And honestly, V2 would’ve been so much more bearable at first had I started with the coins and seen it’s utility at the get go.
The marksman is so much more unique then the charge shot that starting off with it would likelly give the game a much better first impression too, instead of *slightly more buff doom 2016 pistol*
The problem is be that the piercer also introduces you to destructible environment and using hazards for kills.
Plus the first levels of prelude aren't that good to use the coin (to my personal experience, until i got enough experience to use it in more cramped environments)
That's an interesting idea though. It might need a bit of level design changes, PLUS have the game tell you more about melee parrying / interruptions. Although you can easily get interruptions by luck with the coin.
I think the main problem Mayo has with the Piercer is due to the fact that it's an all around weapon. While all other guns have strong pros and cons depending of the situation, the Piercer is balanced to be somewhat average in every situation.
Is it an issue though, and should it have more cons?
That can be an interesting debate for a game design.
@@Auvisome
Not trying to refute, but personally my first instinct was to just abuse the marksman because my aim on moving targets was doodoofeces and hitting a coin was easier. Also it just looked cool as hell. I did practice a lot with it in the elevator to understand all trajectories and how it worked.
Pretty sure that was not the average player behaviour, I just wanted to share my experience.
@@merius6905 I agree on the marksman part but the piercer is much, MUCH stronger than the doom 2016 pistol lmao
The shotgun can immediately demolish a tight group of small enemies at close range with either of its weapon mods' special abilities, can shoot explosive bullets at long range, and does insane close-range damage to bosses.
The piercer charged shot can kill three filth. And no, it does not "explode". It pierces. It is called the piercer.
At this point, Mayo has said so many false things about Ultrakill in his reviews that I can't tell if he is just completely inattentive and unaware of how the game works, or he is just lying.
Why are you crying right now? He is talking about how a new player would perceive both options. They almost serve similar functions in early act 1, and the game isn’t intense enough to make the differences in weapon utility stand out at that stage. The point he is making is that there is some overlap in their utilities and that starting with the coin would encourage better habits and engagement with the other systems as a new player learning the game. There is a greater distinction in utilities between the coin and shotgun.
It’s almost like you went into this already with the mindset of disagreeing and not seeing the greater picture. "NOOOOO IT PIERCES NOT EXPLODES" it causes an explosion of blood, forgive him for misidentifying it.
my god bro who cares that he used the word explode. you can say words figuratively and not literally this is not first grade english class
proboosting is not a thing new players learn immediately unless they watched previous videos about the game, you dont need insane close range damage in early game at all (and its not like the piercer doesnt have it. it deals 10 damage in 5 seconds not counting the pierce shot (or head/limbshots which deal DOUBLE damage), shotguns in that time deal 12-13 if you hit ALL 12 pellets (more if you shotgunswap, but new players dont know that)). shotguns are harder to hit with their wide spread and way riskier with their slow reload times, and the only earlygame targets that they are really good against are like schisms and malfaces
@@Auvisome yes he is talking about how a new player could perceive it that way, and he is absolutely misrepresenting the truth. He claims the piercer and shotgun appear to serve similar functions, which causes the player to ignore the shotgun and stick with the pistol, but the game explicitly showcases the uniqueness of the core eject by forcing you to use it to leave Swordsmachine's room. The first encounter you use it in even has a pop-up saying the regular fire pierces enemies (it pierces better than the charged shot.) It is impossible that Mayo came to the conclusion that the piercer (single target weapon, CAN pierce 3 filth) was more appealing to the same niche as the shotgun (ridiculous crowd control) unless Mayo was willfully ignoring what the game is screaming at him, or he is lying to his audience.
@@Auvisome no? the new player sees a cool new gun not a useless hunk of trash.
the new player thinks what can i do with this gun? they see the better damage at close range and the explosive ball thats better for the larger hordes of filth that spawn in.
plus the shotgun feels insanely good to shoot
@@Auvisome new players then see that its more of a long range short range difference. and well seeing as short range heals you, they use the shotgun because its better for damage and healing.
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become Dean Takahashi"
Bro I literally cannot fucking develop muscle memory and I’m still enjoying this game. According to your argument, I would just be running in circles, spamming piercer. But I’m not, even on my first play through, I was still switching weapons and attempted some coin tricks. What you fail to realize is that ultrakill is not a game meant to be played once. It’s meant to be replayed over and over again, which is why the game would be worse if it were to force you to switch weapons. The style meter is there to encourage you to switch weapons. And the whole “difficulty spike” is intentional actually makes the boss fights better. The entire game was designed around this, the most obvious example being the checkpoints. Due to how they are set up, you can die to the same boss hundreds of times and not ragequit once, it forces you to put in more effort for a more gratifying reward without making you feel like you’re facing an impossible challenge. That’s what ultrakill is ACTUALLY about
and let's not forget the loading times on death, because holy SHIT are they fast, i can die and respawn so fast death just feels like a mild annoyance, and inconveniance, the most it does to upset me is hurt my pride, but not even then, the reason i love this checkpoint and respawn system is that every time you fail to break the wall (IE a boss or hard encounter) you can just come back not even a fucking second later and try again, you could easily fit a DOZEN failed attempts in a singular MINUTE, and i LOVE that, with shit like dark souls, and elden ring, ESPECIALLY elden ring, it just wastes your time with so much BULLSHIT when you fail and/or die, you gotta deal with the death animation, the big text stating the fucking obvious, and a loading screen that takes what feels like HOURS, and sure, in dark souls 3 where most of my failures i can chock up to me doing something wrong, needing to improve, needing to "git gud" as they say, and that's fair, im fine with that, i like being able to blame myself for my inability to overcome a game's challenge because i dont feel cheated by the game, unlike in some of what elden ring has to offer where it feels like complete bullshit half of the time, maybe that's just me not seeing what im doing wrong or whatever, but i feel that if MY failures arent immediately obvious then the game can be blamed, i dont like saying that, i dont like making that excuse, but sometimes it just looks like the only explanation, sorry for goin on a rant there, just wanted to get that out
@@velocityraptor2890 well its because they dont unload and reload the level, they just respawn the enemies. it prevents experimentation from being punished because the loss on death is so low unless you want to p rank the level
@@jacobbachman4014 and i like that, all the practice, none of the fuss
1.ammo concept is dumb for ultrakill. The game is based on being cool not worrying about losing something that powers your weapons.
2.forcing new players to try out complicated techniques like coin flipping Right in the beginning is also stupid. You want to build up the skill not shove it right into their throat and the piercer is doing a great job in teaching new players at first step. Shotgun is not useless since it shoots grenades which helps new players eliminate fodders very quickly.
3. Act 1 is good enough for new players and doesnt need any change since the game builds up by itself by introducing new weapons, enemies and bosses
4.The game has difficulty options. I dont think majority of "new players" would jump right into violent difficulty. So the "spike in difficulty" wont be a good excuse.
5. The game already shows how fun it can be and managed to pull that successfully by just building up the pace. So to change these already good mechanics into your perspective. The game will only cater to hardcore diehard fans which will ultimately make the game no different than the rest of the indie games claiming to be "different" and new players will go "uuhh I dont get it why is this popular".
This is by far your most unpopular opinion and hakita better not listen to you because this would definitely suck.
One thing I noticed from watching his gameplay is that he only seems to jump we he tries to avoid proyectiles and not when dealing with filths, wich is a bit weird, the first room of ultrakill traps you un a small room with a bunch of filths, and since they're coming from everywhere and you can't kill them that fast since is your first playtrought, you jump since is the easiest way to avoid their attacks, and that usually teaches you to jump to avoid those enemies, jumping also increases the style meter wich is makes it more encouraging to jump to avoid getting hit (also, getting hit reduces the style meter), so the easiest explanation for this is that in Doom eternal jumping on the first levels isn't that useful since it isn't all that much recompensed, so he applied that to ultrakill, and made the second best decision to avoid getting hit in that room, using the charged piercer, and he used that for all the act 1, this is not a behavior that's usual for first time players (at least not for me) because if you try to attack enemies with the charged piercer while being in the air it doesn't change all that much from the normal shoot, wich makes the shotgun useful, since you can now destroy a bunch of enemies on the ground while you are in the air, wich is a lot more useful than the initial revolver, this way to play is encouraged because like I said, it makes gain a lot more style points than trying to tanking the damage from the enemies and losing a lot of style, all of this means that the fact that mayo dislikes ultrakills balancing is probably because he just played too much doom eternal and trying to play ultrakill like if it was that game, ignoring the first usual lesson of the game and making it worst for himself
@@random_promedio I think you're reading way to much into a clip that was randomly put together 2 years ago.
And doom eternal isn't the only video game or shooter I've ever played and gotten really into. I played unreal tournament seriously for years. Quake 2 and 3.
@@underthemayo Game design is indeed about reading it that much, either way ig I don't know you that much to affirm that your way to play ultrakill is different to the usual first time player and the changes aren't necessary, have a good day
Literally anyone with common sense will try swapping weapons immediately after getting the shotgun or nailgun
COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF
You heard him, he hates ULTRAKILL.
Yeap. He absolutely wants the game to completely die and kill every single fan of it. That's clearly what's going on here. I even watched the video 20 times to make sure.
legends say he caused 9/11 to protest to hakita
I'm pretty sure a Kotaku game journalist would play ultrakill better than you can.
an IGN game reviewer would too.
Did Mayo just say that the Revolver and Shotgun have a similar purpose on the beginning of the game?
no he said that to a new player their purpose seems similair making them less encouraged to use it over the piercer
Even when I first played it, the only similarities between the two weapons is that they are guns and you can kill things with them.
The Revolver's Piercer can be used for dealing with larger enemies and dealing with multiple enemies at once. The Marksman teaches you how to aim and time your aim. It rewards said aim by hitting where you can't see and splitting the shot in two.
The Shotgun is better for enemy hoards with projectile boosting, Core Eject, and Pump Charge.
The combat scenarios in early act 1 don’t lend to the specific utilities of either. The charge pistol is almost as effective. And regardless what you think about that, you have to admit that starting with the coins would encourage better engagement with the other systems.
@@Auvisome Wait, you really just shoot every single filths one by one?
Yeah no, mayo dosen’t know what he’s talking about
YOU HAVE CALLED THY TRUE GAME CRAP, AND THY PUNISHMENT, IS DEATH!
-The Ultrakill Community (Circa 2022)
the ultrakill fans are EXTREMELY mad
Tell me about it lol
Mayo ain't gonna fuck you lil nigga 😭
Yes, yes we are, we are pissed
This video could be retitled as "cope" or "here's how I would make a game based on my personal taste so that only I can enjoy it"
That would of made this video better
all he wanted to change was make the starting mod for the revolver to be the marksman instead of the piercer, and tie the weapon cooldowns to the style meter thats it, and also make the beginning layers a little more difficult
This is your certified *Upper Echelon Gamers reviews Doom Eternal* moment, bruh.
*Suck It Down*
Man, just let Ultrakill and Doom be different games.
I have shown UltraKill to 2 of my friends, one a dota nerd and the either a slow methodical player. They did not once have any of this thoughts nor did they stay using the starter pistol. I think the main issue is the game isnt for you. You arent very understanding on what Ultrakill aims to do and the ideas you present would only hinder the game as a side effect. Further more, saying cooldown times should be lower based on style would only make it so the one argument you used for every Ultrakill video you've made, people would still just use the piercer only. Plus starting with the coin shot would scare new players. New players mostly dont use it until they are confident in their own ability's, mainly because its a little more complex. The game has a very delicate balance and most of these ideas would kill the game, either making it a cake walk or just ruining what the concept of the game is. The game is made to be played your way regardless of how dull or stylish you are.
Ultracope + ultraseeth + ultramald + ultraskill issue + ultragrass touch
The complete lack of parrying in this gameplay pisses me off. This guy doesn't know anything about Ultrakill. Not even how to play lol
Parry happens in the first 10 seconds of the video moron.
@@underthemayo Yeah. A shotgun parry lol
@@underthemayo that's the least of your worries with this video mate
@@strikingsarcophagus a parry nonetheless! I'm not a big fan of parries, and you don't need to use them so whatever. Can but don't want to.
@@underthemayo ?? Parried are a big part of Ultrakill and the fact you aren't doing it is why you keep getting hit consistently 💀 Consistently choosing to play poorly
limited ammo in ultrakill would suck horribly, please understand that they aren't trying to make doom eternal part 2
ps: this dude really fighting Gabriel with a nailgun
be nice it's his first time using any other weapon
whats wrong with using the nailgun against him? Sticking a few magnets into him and shooting melts him
I like the sound it makes. Sure it may take me two hours but it sounds cool.
1:40
At this mark, Mayo begins describing a non-problem. As a PLAYER, I've been recommended this game by completely random people. The people I showed this game to loved it. Zero of them got a new weapon and ignored it completely like you did. I quote a friend of mine: "Well it's easy to just beat it but perfecting it has been such an extreme challenge and I'm having the time of my life"
The negative reviews for the most part are "Great game but no sex". Wdym "You don't hear from the people that quit"
It's like yeah we should listen to the 8% of the community that dislikes the game. Make changes so that 92% of the people don't like it, but those 8% like it. This man got some high wishes and an even higher ego lmao.
1:20 "Having an ammo limit is to Doom"
Bruh litterally Dusk has an ammo limit.
Literally thousands of games.
@@underthemayo They're irrelevant to that argument, Dusk is.
@@underthemayo it doesn't matter, stop crying bro