Thank you so much for this break down of your study. My contractor put osb down under a hidden part of cabinets and sinks, and it didn't seem right to me, so now I'm doing research. Glad I found out before we put the fridge in.
This was super helpful to understand the benefits of using plywood instead of OSB for the subfloor. I appreciate the research to illustrate the difference. Thanks!
Thank you. We have framed hotels with long decks, using apartment grade 23/32" T&G OSB, that swelled and pushed opposite end walls out as much as 2" out of plumb, even with so called expansion joints and following APA guidelines. We also have used Advantech 23/32" with almost no swelling. We have used 3/4" plywood in a few custom houses and had swelling issues at the tongue it, but not anything like OSB issues. All that being said, when OSB was installed with only infrequent rains, it performed good enough. I am about to build my own home in spring and leaning toward Adventech.
This is exactly right. A lot of people who sell or use OSB are trying to convince us that OSB is "just as good if not better!" than plywood, but we all know it's not.
I think these guys did great. I don't know why some people complain so much. Would have been nice to compare to solid decking, but still this was hard work and they did great
We remodeled our 50 year old home starting last summer. We pulled out all the floors down to the concrete pad and replaced all joists and subflooring with plywood at double the cost of OSB. Since our home is in a hurricane zone and we put down hardwood flooring throughout it is well worth the cost in my opinion. Great video.
Although cross-laminating will improve linear expansions as you say, but, it does not have an effect on thickness swelling, which what you measured. The difference in thickness performance is due to the way the different panels are pressed during manufacture; a plywood is typically pressed at around 1 MPa (145 psi) whereas an OSB is pressed at 3 MPa (435 psi) - this explains why the density of OSB is higher than the density of the wood used to make it. Check the density of your plywood and you will see that it corresponds quite well to the typical density of wood it is made from.
Here in Iceland a subfloor would be put in after the house would be closed to the weather. The preference for walls and roof would be plywood here. Floors would be osb 19 or 21 mm. Inside walls would be OSB if wood is used. OSB seems to have a better damping capacity against noise
The problem with plywood is the random delamination. It's really hard to remove a sheet that's been glued down and shot with a million nails. That's why most guys go with a quality osb
Delamination with plywood is not much of an issue since the layers are on top of each other. With OSB, as it flexes over time, the laminates can more easily separate. But what you’re saying about glued-down plywood is true: once it’s down, it’s probably never going to be removed again. I remember an office I worked in was getting demoed for a floor expansion, and the suite we took over had plywood subfloors in the lobby that was raised 5/8 higher than the rest of the floor. The demo machine they were using for removing old floors was sort of like a riding lawn mower with a digger that could scoop under things like tile and lift it up like a peat grazer, and that glued in plywood broke it, so instead of going through the trouble, the new floor that went over it was floated instead.
OSB is as good as cardboard. You'll never catch me with OSB, not on the roof, floors, siding. That's just me, this "test" is as usual, made for social media only and not the real world. We are not in Waterworld eating fish with Kevin Costner. Therefore this is not a REAL WORD test study. I understand the concept but needs to be realistic. I can give a shit about warranty the warranty will run out even faster than the OSB... Install that and leave it outside uncovered for a mere 7-8 months taking all the weathering that gets thrown at it THEN come back. I tell every client I don't care if it's a dog house or a shed. We will spend the extra $1.41 and get DFP ONLY
We’re looking at having a nice house built and the second-story sub-flooring is OSB!! I saw that in the paperwork and immediately thought “what a ripoff. And for $489k?!?!” Seriously, when you think about it, at that price, plywood is not even close to a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Why not use it? If memory serves me correctly, a 4x8x3/4 plank is only about $30, so $300 for 40ft by 80ft goes a looooong way. Every time I see OSB in a store, it just looks like fancy particle board.
Waterworld was the highest grossing movie ever at the time. It failed to make any type of prophet. In other words, the biggest flop (money wise) of all time.
May be a silly question, but is it a viable option using tarps on those days that the construction site is idle? I understand is an added cost and the tarps may not be reusable after sitting around a construction site for a few weeks, but subfloor swelling seems like a big issue to me.
This is a GREAT Video... but too much talking, and not enough showing. There is an old saying in Film... "Show Don't Tell"... Please next time, TALK while you're showing what you're doing... This video could have been cut in half the time... too much talking, even though every thing you said was GREAT... please SHOW us what you're doing while you're talking... even doing a Voice Over of what you did would have been better. Thank you for sharing this very informative video..
In short, when talking about dimensional lumber (like 2x4s), the pieces have edge grain and end grain. The edge grain is normally the broad sides of a board and is less porous than end grain. The end grain sides are the other two sides, and are more absorbent to things like finishes and moisture. Plywood planks’ broad sides are edge-grained pieces, with end grains exposed around all other sides of the board in alternating, perpendicular patterns as you traverse the layers, which are layered and bonded via resin. OSB is made up of wafer pieces of wood, then bonded together with resin, then layered with resin and more wafer pieces. If you’re going to come to just one conclusion about OSB on why not to use it, it’s that it contains more end grain wood pieces, and therefore, will absorb more moisture, which leads to expansion. Hope that helps.
Let’s say you do that and you get rain. Now, you have tarps with pools of water in them. How do you go about draining those tarps without causing a huge mess. Plus, if it has to stay that way for a long period of time because a project also becomes stalled due to many things that cause project stalls, now you’ve got weight in that flooring to long periods of time plus climate exposure. In The northeast, rain can be a problem for weeks.
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Thank you so much for this break down of your study. My contractor put osb down under a hidden part of cabinets and sinks, and it didn't seem right to me, so now I'm doing research. Glad I found out before we put the fridge in.
This was super helpful to understand the benefits of using plywood instead of OSB for the subfloor. I appreciate the research to illustrate the difference. Thanks!
My left ear enjoyed this video.
Thank you. We have framed hotels with long decks, using apartment grade 23/32" T&G OSB, that swelled and pushed opposite end walls out as much as 2" out of plumb, even with so called expansion joints and following APA guidelines. We also have used Advantech 23/32" with almost no swelling. We have used 3/4" plywood in a few custom houses and had swelling issues at the tongue it, but not anything like OSB issues. All that being said, when OSB was installed with only infrequent rains, it performed good enough. I am about to build my own home in spring and leaning toward Adventech.
Very thorough work. I am impressed and will continue to recommend you experts!
oh Bite Me peter
This is exactly right. A lot of people who sell or use OSB are trying to convince us that OSB is "just as good if not better!" than plywood, but we all know it's not.
I think these guys did great. I don't know why some people complain so much. Would have been nice to compare to solid decking, but still this was hard work and they did great
We remodeled our 50 year old home starting last summer. We pulled out all the floors down to the concrete pad and replaced all joists and subflooring with plywood at double the cost of OSB. Since our home is in a hurricane zone and we put down hardwood flooring throughout it is well worth the cost in my opinion. Great video.
Although cross-laminating will improve linear expansions as you say, but, it does not have an effect on thickness swelling, which what you measured. The difference in thickness performance is due to the way the different panels are pressed during manufacture; a plywood is typically pressed at around 1 MPa (145 psi) whereas an OSB is pressed at 3 MPa (435 psi) - this explains why the density of OSB is higher than the density of the wood used to make it. Check the density of your plywood and you will see that it corresponds quite well to the typical density of wood it is made from.
osb is fine for rooms that dont have water lines but in bath or kitchen or in service room use ply
Here in Iceland a subfloor would be put in after the house would be closed to the weather.
The preference for walls and roof would be plywood here. Floors would be osb 19 or 21 mm. Inside walls would be OSB if wood is used.
OSB seems to have a better damping capacity against noise
Thank you. I really appreciate the information you have provided.
Man I almost feel asleep 😴 at the end I forgot why I was even watching this video 🤣
how do you know when you feel asleep?
hahaha omg i felt bad for thinking the same thing, until i came to the comment section and saw that i was not alone! LOL
Real science is boring af
hahaha!!
Better to be thought a dumb fool than to open your mouth and confirm it to all the world.
Informative, I learned a lot, thanks for making this!
just had to replace 13 floor joist and subflooring in my house. Using 2 layers of 23/32 plywood for subflooring.
Right ear sound is dead,great tutorial by the way
Wow this video is very professional.
Thank you very much! Great info
This was very helpful. Thanks.
The problem with plywood is the random delamination. It's really hard to remove a sheet that's been glued down and shot with a million nails. That's why most guys go with a quality osb
Delamination with plywood is not much of an issue since the layers are on top of each other. With OSB, as it flexes over time, the laminates can more easily separate.
But what you’re saying about glued-down plywood is true: once it’s down, it’s probably never going to be removed again. I remember an office I worked in was getting demoed for a floor expansion, and the suite we took over had plywood subfloors in the lobby that was raised 5/8 higher than the rest of the floor. The demo machine they were using for removing old floors was sort of like a riding lawn mower with a digger that could scoop under things like tile and lift it up like a peat grazer, and that glued in plywood broke it, so instead of going through the trouble, the new floor that went over it was floated instead.
Wow... you guys are awesome! Thank you.
OSB is as good as cardboard. You'll never catch me with OSB, not on the roof, floors, siding. That's just me, this "test" is as usual, made for social media only and not the real world. We are not in Waterworld eating fish with Kevin Costner. Therefore this is not a REAL WORD test study. I understand the concept but needs to be realistic. I can give a shit about warranty the warranty will run out even faster than the OSB... Install that and leave it outside uncovered for a mere 7-8 months taking all the weathering that gets thrown at it THEN come back. I tell every client I don't care if it's a dog house or a shed. We will spend the extra $1.41 and get DFP ONLY
We’re looking at having a nice house built and the second-story sub-flooring is OSB!! I saw that in the paperwork and immediately thought “what a ripoff. And for $489k?!?!”
Seriously, when you think about it, at that price, plywood is not even close to a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Why not use it? If memory serves me correctly, a 4x8x3/4 plank is only about $30, so $300 for 40ft by 80ft goes a looooong way.
Every time I see OSB in a store, it just looks like fancy particle board.
Waterworld was the highest grossing movie ever at the time. It failed to make any type of prophet. In other words, the biggest flop (money wise) of all time.
May be a silly question, but is it a viable option using tarps on those days that the construction site is idle?
I understand is an added cost and the tarps may not be reusable after sitting around a construction site for a few weeks, but subfloor swelling seems like a big issue to me.
great study ... well presented ...very informative ...keep it up
Excellent info! Thanks!
A mono to stereo adapter is about 5 bucks
BINGO!! NAILED IT!!
Thanks. Plywood it is.
Plywood is BETTER than OSB
@10:17 - This is all you need to see to know Plywood is king.
great info thanks
Water goes down. The floor WILL get wet, and they build floors with OSB joists now! I could stomp a hole in it. I don't want to walk on that garbage!
Guess I know what I’m replacing my OSB subfloor with then!
great video
Information for our decisions.
Thank you.
Matt Risinger has been relentlessly promoting Advantech over the years. He must be making g big coin schilling Advantech. 😂
Well done 🔥🔥🔥🔥
It looks like plywood easily won!!
can you add 3/4 plywood over 1/2 plywood to strengthen the floor?
No point unless you are doing tile , Then the it is better to put 3/4 first .
Good info. Thanks.
OSB ALL DAY👌🙂
Great audio work really brilliant. Next time turn the mic on
The sound is horrible :(
This is a GREAT Video... but too much talking, and not enough showing.
There is an old saying in Film... "Show Don't Tell"...
Please next time, TALK while you're showing what you're doing...
This video could have been cut in half the time... too much talking, even though every thing you said was GREAT...
please SHOW us what you're doing while you're talking... even doing a Voice Over of what you did would have been better.
Thank you for sharing this very informative video..
For what the cost of Advantech is, you can tear out your osb floors and replace it 3 times and have a new floor with money left over for your beer….
OSB is crap, hate it and don't use it. Douglas fir plywood is the best underlayment under any floor.
Could some one just give the TAKE AWAY?
Why are squeaky floors an issue? I don't mind if mine squeak.
What he means is this kind of squeak is indicative of an unseated flooring, which can be a sign of a major issue.
this seemed to make a lot of since NOT now i'm more lost than ever.
In short, when talking about dimensional lumber (like 2x4s), the pieces have edge grain and end grain. The edge grain is normally the broad sides of a board and is less porous than end grain. The end grain sides are the other two sides, and are more absorbent to things like finishes and moisture.
Plywood planks’ broad sides are edge-grained pieces, with end grains exposed around all other sides of the board in alternating, perpendicular patterns as you traverse the layers, which are layered and bonded via resin.
OSB is made up of wafer pieces of wood, then bonded together with resin, then layered with resin and more wafer pieces.
If you’re going to come to just one conclusion about OSB on why not to use it, it’s that it contains more end grain wood pieces, and therefore, will absorb more moisture, which leads to expansion.
Hope that helps.
This guy has the emotional language and colorfulness of a dung beetle
OSB sucks I've seen it too many times
Annoying
OSB. POS
why not just lay a freakin' tarp over the plywood when you leave the jobsite
Over a 3300 sq ft floor. Right
Let’s say you do that and you get rain. Now, you have tarps with pools of water in them. How do you go about draining those tarps without causing a huge mess.
Plus, if it has to stay that way for a long period of time because a project also becomes stalled due to many things that cause project stalls, now you’ve got weight in that flooring to long periods of time plus climate exposure. In The northeast, rain can be a problem for weeks.
This guys a real mumbler
Oh, and plywood is only better if you live underwater
blah blah blah....