the way they spam the character select screen before instantly picking final destination only to multishine 8 times per second after each kill radiates the destructive, chaotic energy of an apathetic lifeless machine
If it was an emotion, it was a totally emotionless one. It was hatred, implacable hatred. It was cold, not like ice is cold, but like a wall is cold. It was impersonal, not like a randomly flung fist in a crowd is impersonal, but like a computer-issued parking summons is impersonal. And it was deadly, again, not like a bullet or a knife is deadly, but like a brick wall across an expressway is deadly.
At the beginning, they weren't just shining each other It's like an anime, where the two people fighting are too fast for the eye to register so all we mere humans can see are circles appearing as they punch and kick each other
DanNacht in a sense, yeah. But it was made to screw up randomly. In a perfect match kind of like the first example, the first player won, due to port priority. Also you can see that in some instances when they both shine, the first Fox dominates the other.
"Smashbot has determined optimal behavior for trying to win is to pick fox and multishine then wavedash over and over non stop" Melee fans: as it should be
I watched a video years ago that talked about what would happen if the highest tech level faced off against itself. Or a mind reader vs a mind reader, as that's the highest level of reading an opponent, another way to play. The result would always be either nothing or completely safe play. So yeah, two bots that take out the do nothing option would just be stuck in the safe clanging of shines and never once stray away so that their opponent couldn't counter them.
one of the foxes during the first "match": "YOU MIGHT KNOW EVERYTHING I'M GOING TO DO, BUT THATS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU, SINCE I KNOW EVERYTHING YOUR GOING TO DO, STRAAAAAAAAAAAANGE, ISN'T IT"
But, simple numbers dictate that if 20XX is a number, than the two X's have the be equal (I.E. X = X). so 20XX =/= 2017, it CAN however equal 2022,2033,2044,2055, and so on. so if the two numbers match, we may have the year where we get the perfect fox main. This means that for 20XX to be 2017, one X would have to be subbed, for 20XS
Hey AltF4, can you check your inbox? I want to make a TAS video vs. the SmashBot, but I don't know how to build the memory watcher version of Dolphin you need.
gamerfreak5665 You will definitely win. Any bot, no matter how meticulously made will always lose to a dedicated TAS run since there are always ways of finding exploits in an AI. I would love to see you throw down the hammer against it x)
So, uhh... is this actually in the works right now? I understand these take a really long time to do, so I was wondering whether you dropped the project or if it might happen sometime in the future.
It’s very interesting that given the chance, both bots will draw because shining the opponent is optimal in that situation. I wonder if you could program a bot that would see that initial wave shine routine as leading to a draw, and intentionally do something else in order to avoid it, so that it may actually win later.
Wow, awesome! an interesting experiment i'd love to see is to add a human-like reaction time to the bots decisions, so that it has to make a 4-6 frame read. I think that would make for much more realistic gameplay (and also a very useful training opponent). If this were possible, then SmashBot would probably also need to learn on-the-fly ie adapt to it's current opponents recent moves. That's just my wishlist though :) I'm already blown away, never thought I'd see a bot this good! Keep up the great work!
it's basically artificially intelligent already :) it would take two neural nets and a queue. one deep, persistent NN for past games, and one shallow, temporary NN for just the current game. the queue would save the last 4-6 game states, and the bots existing immediate-decision making process would only be given access to the oldest frame in the queue. since he already has his strategies broken down, it shouldn't be too hard to bind the higher-level strategies to their own nodes in the 2 NNs. The biggest issues are the computational demands of running regression on the fly, which might make the system laggy. The other issue is training data: but I'll bet there are plenty of people online who'd love to be training dummies, including pros
+Traber McFarlin True, but those are *average* people. A professional boxer wouldn't use an average person as their training partner, right? The fastest human reaction times are between 70 (with rumble and sound) to 120 (purely visual) milliseconds or 4-7 frames.
The year is 20XX, matches are not decided by the rock, paper, scissors for port priority as the humans once thought, but instead, anticlimactically, in a draw.
I don't understand coding at that level but it looked like the "random" messup screwed it in some terrible situations. Could you make an "if approach loops X times random sub optimal approach" instead? Still would create a variation that allows the shine loop to stop but avoids short forward B when it's not necessary
What it shows at the beginning is very simple. The bots figured out that the only true way to win and never lose, is to simply not fight at all. Instead, they showed their power through the art of interpretive dance. The machines have created art
This is the perfect example of the Clone paradox, Where if you put yourself and a clone, with your exact thoughts and actions would be the same, how would you end the cycle without a 3rd party? This literally proves there’s no way to do it.
I think it would be cool if the part that made it screw up was in the part that figures out what’s going on in the game, that way it would be sort of like a human reacting to what they expect rather than what’s actually happening
At the very beginning: *SURRRRRRR-* V̵̗̟̯̾Ì̷̫͂V̵̺̻͖̾I̸̙̳͙͆̿Ġ̶̦̹̑͜G̴̛̫̝̈̌L̴̛̺̹͜Ď̷̜̺̭͐͊G̶̬̏͌̀H̴͖̣͝F̵̙̦̜̆͐Y̷̠̫̑̚R̴̬̪̎̏ͅË̸̜́͆E̴̢͝Å̸͓̋̍A̵͕̣͌A̵̩̔̇Ǎ̵͇͙̔A̸̹̟̓̍͗Å̷̡͇
Is this project in open source? I'd like to look at the code to see how it works. I want to get into AI with Python, and I think this would be a cool place to start. Keep up the good stuff, man!
Hey AltF4 love the smash bot as a programmer myself AI is fascinating especially the loop they found themselves in on this video and I was wondering your opinion on the OpenAI dota playing neural network and how it had shaped the Dota mid gameplay, any progress on a Smash bot neural network?
not exactly, meele as a game hasnt been solved, and probably never will be, there isnt a way to see which move is optimal in a completely neutral situation, in this game, assuming a player shines, if the other player knows that smashbot will shine, there is counterplay, the reason this is happening is because smashbot has a set outcome
the way they spam the character select screen before instantly picking final destination only to multishine 8 times per second after each kill radiates the destructive, chaotic energy of an apathetic lifeless machine
69th like lmao
@@NAFProjects 100th
If it was an emotion, it was a totally emotionless one. It was hatred, implacable hatred. It was cold, not like ice is cold, but like a wall is cold. It was impersonal, not like a randomly flung fist in a crowd is impersonal, but like a computer-issued parking summons is impersonal. And it was deadly, again, not like a bullet or a knife is deadly, but like a brick wall across an expressway is deadly.
so, just a regular Fox main?
@@ericburtron7568 Perchance, art thou a poet?
I love that shine is such a goddamn good move that they’ll do whatever it takes just to get the chance to shine again.
It's like real smash players with out the smell.
and without the salt.
And without the pepper
and without the sweat
and without the yelling
So this is what 20XX looks like.
is this a neural network? if so what does a neural network trained falco do?
Most likely the -blip- shine loop, but probably more kills would be by dair.
Yes the Fox shine dash is
Yup Hahahha
If everyone played the game to complete perfection no one would get hit it’d be so shit
I like the brute force character select lol
Trying to pick a character that beats them then they pick one that beats yours until they decide the only counter to Fox is himself
That in itself was a grueling match, a fight for the best character, a duel to the death
@@jasonalen7459 hahaha facts
I still don’t know how they do that
Yup
At the beginning, they weren't just shining each other
It's like an anime, where the two people fighting are too fast for the eye to register so all we mere humans can see are circles appearing as they punch and kick each other
Ora
like dbz?
Well said
Me acting shocked but really I could see every movement: 😮
When the AI singularity finally approaches, humanity will become the secondary characters in our own story.
When port priority actually matters
But it didn't matter because port 2 won.
DanNacht in a sense, yeah. But it was made to screw up randomly. In a perfect match kind of like the first example, the first player won, due to port priority.
Also you can see that in some instances when they both shine, the first Fox dominates the other.
They went 5 minutes perfectly multishining each other without any domination due to port priority
port priority is only relevant when two characters grab each other at the same exact time. higher port wins out every time.
@@slimegirlgaming2142 and dr. Mario’s down throw on game & watch fsr
You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
Oh yes, random SDs throwing games.
@@PalPlays no, it is 0 deaths 0 damage
I think he means the first one
i love how they teabag each other. singularity achieved
AND SMASHBOT 2 MAKES A FOUR STOCK COMEBACK!!!WHOOOHOO!!!!
"Smashbot has determined optimal behavior for trying to win is to pick fox and multishine then wavedash over and over non stop"
Melee fans: as it should be
F
GG
Unfortunately
I watched a video years ago that talked about what would happen if the highest tech level faced off against itself. Or a mind reader vs a mind reader, as that's the highest level of reading an opponent, another way to play. The result would always be either nothing or completely safe play.
So yeah, two bots that take out the do nothing option would just be stuck in the safe clanging of shines and never once stray away so that their opponent couldn't counter them.
@@iczesmv thankfully
one of the foxes during the first "match": "YOU MIGHT KNOW EVERYTHING I'M GOING TO DO, BUT THATS NOT GOING TO HELP YOU, SINCE I KNOW EVERYTHING YOUR GOING TO DO, STRAAAAAAAAAAAANGE, ISN'T IT"
Nani?!??
This is from the sonic movie huh lmfao
"I know everything you're gonna-"
"Say, and I know everything you're gonna-"
"Don't."
You forgot the best part of the quote: the scream
"What this world isn't big enough for the both of us and one of us has to go?"
I love how they just shine instead of taunting
I love how the optimal form of melee breaks down into basically three moves.
I question whether it’s truly optimal. There were plenty of times during recovery that side b was incorrect
@@apoocumber4164 it's because of the logic that makes it screw up
shine, jump and airdodge
Glad I can get a head start on practicing neutral for the year 20xx.
1:52 oh my god
Westballz actually does that often on stream against a lvl 9 Fox CPU lol
I thought 1:56 was insane
THIS IS A TAS THIS CAN'T BE REAL LMAO
actually this bot tho
I think he's referring to the fact that the wave shines were in time with the music
I did that once lol
Not THAT hard to pull off
Ah, I see.
I guess you could say. . .
You're fighting *FIYAAHHHHH* with *FIYAAHHHHH*
I hate that I read this comment in fox’s voice
Underrated comment. Needs more likes.
booooooo 😂
“The only way to be human is to make mistakes.”
At first, duting the second battle, it looked like orange fox was getting beaten down, then he just absolutely manhandled white fox
*2 0 X X : A C H E I V E D*
0:14 That's it. We have witnessed peak 20XX.
Here we see the mating dance of a Melee Fox
So the XX stands for 17
how can X have 2 different values at the same time? Could not compute
Tony Roots it's not an ecuation, clearly
But, simple numbers dictate that if 20XX is a number, than the two X's have the be equal (I.E. X = X). so 20XX =/= 2017, it CAN however equal 2022,2033,2044,2055, and so on. so if the two numbers match, we may have the year where we get the perfect fox main. This means that for 20XX to be 2017, one X would have to be subbed, for 20XS
Ya Boy Guzma the fucking math skills.
X(hidden value 1) and X(hidden value 2)
when you combine both hidden values, and the secret chemical-X, 20XX is born.
So it ended with mang0 two stocking leffen👍🏻
Or armada
"The year is 20XX. We have become so advanced that we now use shine to reflect projectiles."
when the two smartest kids in class respect each others different answers
_Only one can be right._
Hey AltF4, can you check your inbox? I want to make a TAS video vs. the SmashBot, but I don't know how to build the memory watcher version of Dolphin you need.
gamerfreak5665 that would be awsome, and I too have tried to build his version of dolphin for the smashbot but failed.
gamerfreak5665 You will definitely win. Any bot, no matter how meticulously made will always lose to a dedicated TAS run since there are always ways of finding exploits in an AI. I would love to see you throw down the hammer against it x)
your vids got me into melee 3 years ago, love u gamerfreak xooxoxoxoxox
So, uhh... is this actually in the works right now? I understand these take a really long time to do, so I was wondering whether you dropped the project or if it might happen sometime in the future.
It’s very interesting that given the chance, both bots will draw because shining the opponent is optimal in that situation.
I wonder if you could program a bot that would see that initial wave shine routine as leading to a draw, and intentionally do something else in order to avoid it, so that it may actually win later.
Wow, awesome! an interesting experiment i'd love to see is to add a human-like reaction time to the bots decisions, so that it has to make a 4-6 frame read. I think that would make for much more realistic gameplay (and also a very useful training opponent). If this were possible, then SmashBot would probably also need to learn on-the-fly ie adapt to it's current opponents recent moves. That's just my wishlist though :) I'm already blown away, never thought I'd see a bot this good! Keep up the great work!
Rumford Chimpenstein I can only imagine how much work that will take. It would basically be an artificial intelligence at that point.
it's basically artificially intelligent already :) it would take two neural nets and a queue. one deep, persistent NN for past games, and one shallow, temporary NN for just the current game. the queue would save the last 4-6 game states, and the bots existing immediate-decision making process would only be given access to the oldest frame in the queue. since he already has his strategies broken down, it shouldn't be too hard to bind the higher-level strategies to their own nodes in the 2 NNs. The biggest issues are the computational demands of running regression on the fly, which might make the system laggy. The other issue is training data: but I'll bet there are plenty of people online who'd love to be training dummies, including pros
Check out twitch.tv/microsoftv and his ai(?), Phillip
People take like 15 frames to react, not 4-6
+Traber McFarlin True, but those are *average* people. A professional boxer wouldn't use an average person as their training partner, right? The fastest human reaction times are between 70 (with rumble and sound) to 120 (purely visual) milliseconds or 4-7 frames.
I like how when you made them fail sometimes they would Shine Dance, waiting for the other to screw up before finishing them off lol
The damn taunts killed me.
AltF4: SmashBot seeks the most optimal gameplay
SmashBot: SHINE SPAM AS FOX
The first round is really realistic and accurate
Actual 20XX is, unfortunately, very dull.
The year is 20XX, matches are not decided by the rock, paper, scissors for port priority as the humans once thought, but instead, anticlimactically, in a draw.
The draw then leads to rock paper scissors. Again.
dull but strangely beautiful
The wave shines at 1:52 are in time with the music lmao
Nice catch!
Smashbot v. Cruel melee
And the winner is...
FoXX
I don't understand coding at that level but it looked like the "random" messup screwed it in some terrible situations. Could you make an "if approach loops X times random sub optimal approach" instead? Still would create a variation that allows the shine loop to stop but avoids short forward B when it's not necessary
What it shows at the beginning is very simple. The bots figured out that the only true way to win and never lose, is to simply not fight at all.
Instead, they showed their power through the art of interpretive dance.
The machines have created art
Smashbot Fox Moveset:
- Shine
- Up smash
- Up B
- Side B
- More shine
top ten anime battles
very formulated some might say
10/10 comeback, evo crowd would go crazy
That first fight is a prime example of actually 20XX going by the meme, perfect play, winner is decided by port priority
20XX brought to life
That's what I wanted to see! XD Interesting... Looks like Smashbot has a weakness for Ramen Noodles. But then, don't we all?
Nathan Prindler one of us... One of us....
Look, it's mating!
This is the perfect example of the Clone paradox, Where if you put yourself and a clone, with your exact thoughts and actions would be the same, how would you end the cycle without a 3rd party? This literally proves there’s no way to do it.
I think it would be cool if the part that made it screw up was in the part that figures out what’s going on in the game, that way it would be sort of like a human reacting to what they expect rather than what’s actually happening
Orange Fox’s play at 1:47-1:56 was nice af
This is what Fox matches are like in my brain. Literally nothing but shines, wavedash, up smash, and FIYAAAAAA
This just reminds me of how accurate terminal montage is 😂
You don't hear the stick when the bots play
the frame perfect usmash charge tech chases are so satisfying
0:14 sounds like a metal song drumbeat that I can’t quite put my finger on...
This is beautiful Melee
The absolute menacing aura that is the top speed wave dash… 💀
orange fox with the comeback of the century!
Show perfect SmashBot vs imperfect SmashBot
Bot vs Bot:
STANDING HERE
I REALIZE
YOU WERE JUST LIKE ME
TRYING TO WRITE HISTORY
Before augmentation: Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything.
This how Armada VS Leffen will look like in a few years
the way this aged makes me sad 😞
I miss armada v leffen
the dude invented meele players niice
Dude, orange kicked ass those last four stocks!
When the first countdown finished my phone alarm went off.
At the very beginning:
*SURRRRRRR-*
V̵̗̟̯̾Ì̷̫͂V̵̺̻͖̾I̸̙̳͙͆̿Ġ̶̦̹̑͜G̴̛̫̝̈̌L̴̛̺̹͜Ď̷̜̺̭͐͊G̶̬̏͌̀H̴͖̣͝F̵̙̦̜̆͐Y̷̠̫̑̚R̴̬̪̎̏ͅË̸̜́͆E̴̢͝Å̸͓̋̍A̵͕̣͌A̵̩̔̇Ǎ̵͇͙̔A̸̹̟̓̍͗Å̷̡͇
Oh shoot, I must've missed this TerminalMontage video
Good job smashbot, you really showed smashbot who's boss.
That's some pretty legit Melee gameplay.
I never thought 20XX could look this beatiful.
what i did NOT expect is player 2 smash bot to make a comeback
All that's missing is the clicking of the GameCube controllers
Multishines and wavedashes are the absolute pinnacle of mankind, and there is nothing beyond them in power or accuracy.
Red popped off with that reverse 4 stock
Ah yes, a whole round of two Shining Foxes with not even a single percent of damage. Beautiful.
Is this project in open source? I'd like to look at the code to see how it works. I want to get into AI with Python, and I think this would be a cool place to start. Keep up the good stuff, man!
Dusta Rhymes I know I'm late but github.com/altf4
@@anwar004gaming thank you
@@solacebeyondsolace5926 no problem
all fox needs. shine, illusion, upsmash and fire fox
Whenever i think of high level play, both this and Storm/Sentinel/Magneto comes to my mind
My hands hurt from watching
Not even Mango can compare on how crisp these wave and shines are
This feels like two fox mains high on Adderall seeing which one can shine the fastest
Internet shuts down as computer rage quits life.
It's like a Terminal Montage video
what i find very strange here is that it seems smashbot has a disadvantage approaching with spawn invincibility compared to when it doesnt have it
The peak of 20XX
the hitbox of the shine is larger in the back so maybe that's why they face back when doing so.
ok the red fox comeback was hype tho
Two smashbots versus two smashbots.
The year is literally 20XX
you know I was really hoping the orange shirt fox would lose
Absolutely vicious edge guard from Mango, there.
You might know everything I'm going to do, but that's not going to help you because I know everything you're going to do!
port 2 with the most INSTANT of ramen noodles, im here for it
"The year is 20XX..."
Hey AltF4 love the smash bot as a programmer myself AI is fascinating especially the loop they found themselves in on this video and I was wondering your opinion on the OpenAI dota playing neural network and how it had shaped the Dota mid gameplay, any progress on a Smash bot neural network?
Love how these bots have a seizure after killing one another
Sorry guys, but this is the ideal gameplay. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like
not exactly, meele as a game hasnt been solved, and probably never will be, there isnt a way to see which move is optimal in a completely neutral situation, in this game, assuming a player shines, if the other player knows that smashbot will shine, there is counterplay, the reason this is happening is because smashbot has a set outcome
There you have it, SmashBot outsmarted SmashBot
man orange fox threw those first two stocks
So basically CPU 1 taunted to get bodied. Seems like no one can escape that
Orange taking 4 stocks in a row. Okay
I will never get used to the SDI on these bots
I always knew red fox was the best color. Thanks for confirming it smashbot