But who in their right minds would buy a Leopard with their appalling build quality and refusal to stand by their warranty. Oh, and they sail like bricks...
You are correct ! For us the real underlying issue has been their attitude which has been evident in the difficulty we've had to go through getting them to stand by their warranty. We think that tentatively we also found out (after this video) that the 46 is way heavier than the 45. I say ‘tentatively’ because I am as yet unsure of the configuration, they are using for the weight i.e. with or without diesel . . . with or without electric setup. Regardless, Leopards are heavy and slow and need to loose weight, not gain !!!
Gee whizz I've been leaning towards a motor yacht because I have destroyed my shoulders BUT you have nearly sold me on the 46. what a sparkling review. It was good to have a knowledgeable opinion from a current Leopard owner for direct comparison.
Thanks for your comment Alan. This was a super impromptu commentary of our first impressions of the aesthetics. It wasn't a technical review nor was it a review of Leopard, the company, and their attitude or their view on warranty which we learned more about while we were in Annapolis. Our definitely walkthrough does not constitute a recommendation. A buying decision would require far more investigation on your part. Kevin
Yes she looks good on the surface, I LIKE IT! lets just hope their build quality underneath where it counts is up to par and that after you hand over the big bucks the friendly service is still there? although those salesmen could crack a smile! lol. I do think the move to Glass over Perspex windows is a big step forward should stop all those re-sealing issues?!
Absolutely, the glass is a fantastic improvement. Actually, the windows, as a whole, are a HUGE improvement: (1) Glass (2) saloon windows down to the deck (3) cabin windows larger/higher (4) improved blinds. The leaking windows were mostly (only?) on the Leopard 45, as far as we are aware. But 'yes', let's hope that Leopard have solved their window issues. Perhaps the salesmen who weren't smiling were wary of us?! 😐 From all the owners that we have met, and we have met a lot, I think it is fair to say that the general consensus out there is that once customers have handed over the big bucks to Leopard, they dont give a &%$@. However, to be fair, I have seen brief (too brief) signs that they ‘give a small &%$@’ But let’s see when they have a last shot at the warranty issues on this boat, next month in Ft Lauderdale. Leopards head-honcho seemed confident that all would be done properly and seemed not to want to entertain my questions of “What if gain, certain things are not done properly?” Thanks for your comment Kevin
We believe that comparing yacht quality to that of cars is misguided. Cars are produced in the hundreds daily, while even the largest yacht manufacturers don’t reach that level of output. The key factor is the attitude of the builder or brand owner, which can be broken down into four main aspects: 1. BUILD QUALITY: When compared to other boat builders, quality can vary. Yachts are inherently different from cars, so it’s reasonable to expect some issues even from top builders. 2. MANUFACTURING RESPONSES TO KNOWN ISSUES: How effectively a builder addresses feedback from owners and incorporates it back into the production process is crucial. 3. WARRANTY & AFTER-SALES SERVICE POLICY: It’s vital to understand this before making a purchase. Many companies implement cost-saving policies without realizing that, in the long run, these can damage their reputations. 4. OMMITMENT TO CUSTOMER WARRANT ISSUES: This is where you truly feel the difference. For example, one individual in the Leopard Cape Town aftermarket has the right approach, which starkly contrasts with the factory side of Leopard. Our concerns have now been escalated from Leopard Cape Town to the head honcho here in the USA. We’ll see how things progress next month.
I understand and appreciate you video but what I would have loved to have seen given not only your experience but also the issues with the people from "travel sketch" with their Leopard 45, I would have thought you would be asking the salespeople what they are doing regarding the atrocious build quality and warranty work
YES INDEED. You cant take millions of dollars from people and then not back up the product. You MUST offer top quality build with top quality warrenty service. Or all the fru.fru in the world will not matter.
Thanks for your comment Greg. The Leopard sales team at the show kept repeating, "This boat proves we listen to our customers." Clearly, this message comes from higher up, and everyone is just following along. To us, it feels more like evidence that Leopard isn't actually listening. On the same day, we met with the head honcho, who suggested we were jumping to conclusions about Leopard. He urged us to hold off on our assumptions of the outcomes wrt the warranty work in Fort Lauderdale next month. A lot more was discussed, but we'll reserve judgment on that meeting until we see their approach and the outcome in Fort Lauderdale.
Has the switchboard got a cover and the stairs a handrail or do you go down the stairs and hit random switches on the way down in rough seas? The face of the Leopard dude at 18:57 😂
hey Trent, yes, the switchboard is covered but I don't remember handrails down the stairs . . !? Wrt to Leopard staff, whilst most seemed wary of us in the first few seconds, all but one were very pleasant. The guy that you ref to at 18.57 as well as a lady that Franck introduced us to and who would oversee our work with their technical manager, were the most friendly.
Every cat builder I can think of has had terrible build quality, to the point of dangerous to the occupants. Do a lot of You Tube searches on all things boats & brands as some of the relevant videos get buried and wont show up on the first search. Watch them and learn what to look for.
Hi Michael, it is a current Leopard, so it's build quality will be similar to all other current models of Leopard. Having gone through what we have (you can see our videos from the last few months as well as those of Travel Sketch), we strongly believe that the most important factor in buying a boat that you like, is the attitude of the builder or brand owner, which will translate into four main aspects which you can research: 1. BUILD QUALITY: When compared to other boat builders, quality can vary. Yachts are inherently different from cars, so it’s reasonable to expect some issues even from top builders. 2. MANUFACTURING RESPONSES TO KNOWN ISSUES: How effectively a builder addresses feedback from owners and incorporates it back into the production process is crucial. 3. WARRANTY & AFTER-SALES SERVICE POLICY: It’s vital to understand this before making a purchase. Many companies implement cost-saving policies without realizing that, in the long run, these can damage their reputations. 4. COMMITMENT TO CUSTOMER WARRANT ISSUES: This is where you truly feel the difference. For example, one individual in the Leopard Cape Town aftermarket has the right approach, which starkly contrasts with the factory side of Leopard. Our concerns have now been escalated from Leopard Cape Town to the head honcho here in the USA. We’ll see how things progress next month.
Hey Trent, I have no idea on the drain. We didn't spend that much time on the boat. We spent far more time with Franck who when we wanted to discussed possible outcomes and scenarios of our warranty work that he will manage in Ft Lauderdale, insisted that we should not make assumptions that the outcomes would be anything other than acceptable. His confidence in his technical teams ability is encouraging. I don't know why I don't feel as confident 😞 . . . . . I hope I turn out to be wrong and he turns out to be correct.
This is a boat prepared for the boat show, what is the general build going to be like, and who is building it? Yes it is a brilliant boat I love the design and how it looks, it would make a great live aboard cruiser. However leopard build quality and customer service. I’ll stop here.
Hey Paul, it seems that nearly everyone we know thinks Leopard needs to make significant improvements to restore the reputation they had 15 years ago. The biggest hurdle they face is a change in attitude. In our opinion, they still come off as quite arrogant. If they saw this comment, they’d probably deny it and blame us- their customers-rather than examining their own behavior. One of the video ideas we’re considering is titled “Do Leopard Disdain Their Customers?” Arrogance has historically contributed to the decline of much larger companies and even entire countries. However, they do have the advantage of being their own customer by supplying boats to their Moorings and Sunsail charter businesses. Those businesses obviously care far less about quality than owners do. They only have themselves to turn to for warranty repairs if they choose to address them, which of course they don’t because it’s mostly just some young skipper who doesn’t care about the details, that manages/operates the boat. We’ve captured extensive footage of how those boats are treated in the Caribbean, and it’s shocking, to say the least. Many owners are frustrated that the poorly maintained Moorings and Sunsail boats are marketed as ‘Leopards.’ This significantly impacts the resale value of our Leopards, and it’s likely they’re aware that it boosts the perceived value of their poorly treated charter boats. We are still striving to make our Leopard perfect. How can that compare to Moorings and Sunsail, where warranty issues are neglected and the treatment is so dismal?
Hey Larry. You could be right. We loved the aesthetic look and feel as well as most adjustments to the layout. Wrt the saloon and aft deck, it is a Bali-killer ! However, we know the value of a boat that has done a HUGE ‘test-sail’ such as crossing an ocean, as ours did. That is truly the test of the quality and the boat builders response, or lack thereof, is truly a test of the quality of the company and its people and management
Not very creative with storage solutions. They need to collaborate with The Container Store people . That owners mattress is not even a queen size and it essentially forces couples into separate sleeping arrangements unless they’re well you know ..
Hi Paul, thanks for your comment. We didn't feel that the beds were too small for couples. We felt that they were sufficiently large for 99% of couples. Cheers, Kevin
So when is Utopia 2 coming in? That all electric package is like $200k US. I'm not sure the electric appliances come with that package or are they standard. I drank beer on the upper lounge during the owner's happy hour and the beer did taste slightly better. Could've been the boat or the fact the beers were free, not entirely sure. The rumor mill has it that they're replacing the 50 with a 52. Perhaps it will have many of these same design features. It was great seeing you at the show and the marina. You're leaving before I return, so smooth sailing. David, SV Double Shot
Hey David ! Regarding Utopia 2, we do love the physical layout changes as well as the overall aesthetic improvement to the new Leopard but as far as buying their new Leopard 52 that will replace the 50, that won’t be happening due to increased weight. They needed to decrease, not increase weight ! Current Leopards are slow enough and it looks like the new models are even heavier. On our Atlantic crossing I saw how all that extra weight of our provisions slowed us down. We averaged 5.9kts from Cape Town to Grenada! It was painfully slow. So now I truly understand the effects of weight. Thankfully we eventually shed our crew and all their luggage and in those months the crew helped us shed at least a tonne or two of supplies, including one of our two domestic 220v freezers. Additionally, when the three of us flew back to Australia, we took everything that we could and came back with nothing. I have actually been thinking of a Utopia 2 of late . . . a Kinetic or similar but that money is over-the-top. I would only consider a Leopard if they could prove that the new 52 was measurably lighter than Utopia. It’s makes no sense that it just looks good but sails like a total dog ☹ Will you be in or around the Bahamas this coming season? We leave Pier 7 in a week. Let me know if you need me to do anything on your boat. Kevin
😊 so lovely to see you and Kevin again, Melinda! Xx
Lovely to hear from you Viv. Kevin 🙂
But who in their right minds would buy a Leopard with their appalling build quality and refusal to stand by their warranty. Oh, and they sail like bricks...
You are so right here. Until they start building with structural quality forget it. And backing up what they do wrong. No way would i buy one.
You are correct ! For us the real underlying issue has been their attitude which has been evident in the difficulty we've had to go through getting them to stand by their warranty. We think that tentatively we also found out (after this video) that the 46 is way heavier than the 45. I say ‘tentatively’ because I am as yet unsure of the configuration, they are using for the weight i.e. with or without diesel . . . with or without electric setup. Regardless, Leopards are heavy and slow and need to loose weight, not gain !!!
Gee whizz I've been leaning towards a motor yacht because I have destroyed my shoulders BUT you have nearly sold me on the 46. what a sparkling review. It was good to have a knowledgeable opinion from a current Leopard owner for direct comparison.
Thanks for your comment Alan. This was a super impromptu commentary of our first impressions of the aesthetics. It wasn't a technical review nor was it a review of Leopard, the company, and their attitude or their view on warranty which we learned more about while we were in Annapolis. Our definitely walkthrough does not constitute a recommendation. A buying decision would require far more investigation on your part. Kevin
@@sailing_utopia absolutely understand. I have been watching the multiple channels and their warranty dramas
Yes she looks good on the surface, I LIKE IT! lets just hope their build quality underneath where it counts is up to par and that after you hand over the big bucks the friendly service is still there? although those salesmen could crack a smile! lol.
I do think the move to Glass over Perspex windows is a big step forward should stop all those re-sealing issues?!
Absolutely, the glass is a fantastic improvement. Actually, the windows, as a whole, are a HUGE improvement:
(1) Glass
(2) saloon windows down to the deck
(3) cabin windows larger/higher
(4) improved blinds.
The leaking windows were mostly (only?) on the Leopard 45, as far as we are aware. But 'yes', let's hope that Leopard have solved their window issues. Perhaps the salesmen who weren't smiling were wary of us?! 😐
From all the owners that we have met, and we have met a lot, I think it is fair to say that the general consensus out there is that once customers have handed over the big bucks to Leopard, they dont give a &%$@. However, to be fair, I have seen brief (too brief) signs that they ‘give a small &%$@’
But let’s see when they have a last shot at the warranty issues on this boat, next month in Ft Lauderdale. Leopards head-honcho seemed confident that all would be done properly and seemed not to want to entertain my questions of “What if gain, certain things are not done properly?”
Thanks for your comment
Kevin
None of this fluff matters if you don’t build a quality boat structurally and BACK UP YOUR WORK!
We believe that comparing yacht quality to that of cars is misguided. Cars are produced in the hundreds daily, while even the largest yacht manufacturers don’t reach that level of output. The key factor is the attitude of the builder or brand owner, which can be broken down into four main aspects:
1. BUILD QUALITY: When compared to other boat builders, quality can vary. Yachts are inherently different from cars, so it’s reasonable to expect some issues even from top builders.
2. MANUFACTURING RESPONSES TO KNOWN ISSUES: How effectively a builder addresses feedback from owners and incorporates it back into the production process is crucial.
3. WARRANTY & AFTER-SALES SERVICE POLICY: It’s vital to understand this before making a purchase. Many companies implement cost-saving policies without realizing that, in the long run, these can damage their reputations.
4. OMMITMENT TO CUSTOMER WARRANT ISSUES: This is where you truly feel the difference. For example, one individual in the Leopard Cape Town aftermarket has the right approach, which starkly contrasts with the factory side of Leopard. Our concerns have now been escalated from Leopard Cape Town to the head honcho here in the USA. We’ll see how things progress next month.
I understand and appreciate you video but what I would have loved to have seen given not only your experience but also the issues with the people from "travel sketch" with their Leopard 45, I would have thought you would be asking the salespeople what they are doing regarding the atrocious build quality and warranty work
YES INDEED. You cant take millions of dollars from people and then not back up the product. You MUST offer top quality build with top quality warrenty service. Or all the fru.fru in the world will not matter.
Thanks for your comment Greg. The Leopard sales team at the show kept repeating, "This boat proves we listen to our customers." Clearly, this message comes from higher up, and everyone is just following along. To us, it feels more like evidence that Leopard isn't actually listening. On the same day, we met with the head honcho, who suggested we were jumping to conclusions about Leopard. He urged us to hold off on our assumptions of the outcomes wrt the warranty work in Fort Lauderdale next month. A lot more was discussed, but we'll reserve judgment on that meeting until we see their approach and the outcome in Fort Lauderdale.
@@roadboat9216 Agree. We just looked at the fru fru :-)
Has the switchboard got a cover and the stairs a handrail or do you go down the stairs and hit random switches on the way down in rough seas? The face of the Leopard dude at 18:57 😂
hey Trent, yes, the switchboard is covered but I don't remember handrails down the stairs . . !? Wrt to Leopard staff, whilst most seemed wary of us in the first few seconds, all but one were very pleasant. The guy that you ref to at 18.57 as well as a lady that Franck introduced us to and who would oversee our work with their technical manager, were the most friendly.
My family and I looking for a 4 room 53’ pc. Any comments on the build quality of these?
Every cat builder I can think of has had terrible build quality, to the point of dangerous to the occupants. Do a lot of You Tube searches on all things boats & brands as some of the relevant videos get buried and wont show up on the first search. Watch them and learn what to look for.
Hi Michael, it is a current Leopard, so it's build quality will be similar to all other current models of Leopard. Having gone through what we have (you can see our videos from the last few months as well as those of Travel Sketch), we strongly believe that the most important factor in buying a boat that you like, is the attitude of the builder or brand owner, which will translate into four main aspects which you can research:
1. BUILD QUALITY: When compared to other boat builders, quality can vary. Yachts are inherently different from cars, so it’s reasonable to expect some issues even from top builders.
2. MANUFACTURING RESPONSES TO KNOWN ISSUES: How effectively a builder addresses feedback from owners and incorporates it back into the production process is crucial.
3. WARRANTY & AFTER-SALES SERVICE POLICY: It’s vital to understand this before making a purchase. Many companies implement cost-saving policies without realizing that, in the long run, these can damage their reputations.
4. COMMITMENT TO CUSTOMER WARRANT ISSUES: This is where you truly feel the difference. For example, one individual in the Leopard Cape Town aftermarket has the right approach, which starkly contrasts with the factory side of Leopard. Our concerns have now been escalated from Leopard Cape Town to the head honcho here in the USA. We’ll see how things progress next month.
What is the drain like for water on those solar panels?
Hey Trent, I have no idea on the drain. We didn't spend that much time on the boat. We spent far more time with Franck who when we wanted to discussed possible outcomes and scenarios of our warranty work that he will manage in Ft Lauderdale, insisted that we should not make assumptions that the outcomes would be anything other than acceptable. His confidence in his technical teams ability is encouraging. I don't know why I don't feel as confident 😞 . . . . . I hope I turn out to be wrong and he turns out to be correct.
This is a boat prepared for the boat show, what is the general build going to be like, and who is building it? Yes it is a brilliant boat I love the design and how it looks, it would make a great live aboard cruiser. However leopard build quality and customer service. I’ll stop here.
Hey Paul, it seems that nearly everyone we know thinks Leopard needs to make significant improvements to restore the reputation they had 15 years ago. The biggest hurdle they face is a change in attitude. In our opinion, they still come off as quite arrogant. If they saw this comment, they’d probably deny it and blame us- their customers-rather than examining their own behavior. One of the video ideas we’re considering is titled “Do Leopard Disdain Their Customers?” Arrogance has historically contributed to the decline of much larger companies and even entire countries.
However, they do have the advantage of being their own customer by supplying boats to their Moorings and Sunsail charter businesses. Those businesses obviously care far less about quality than owners do. They only have themselves to turn to for warranty repairs if they choose to address them, which of course they don’t because it’s mostly just some young skipper who doesn’t care about the details, that manages/operates the boat. We’ve captured extensive footage of how those boats are treated in the Caribbean, and it’s shocking, to say the least. Many owners are frustrated that the poorly maintained Moorings and Sunsail boats are marketed as ‘Leopards.’ This significantly impacts the resale value of our Leopards, and it’s likely they’re aware that it boosts the perceived value of their poorly treated charter boats. We are still striving to make our Leopard perfect. How can that compare to Moorings and Sunsail, where warranty issues are neglected and the treatment is so dismal?
It's a house. 🙂
Hey Steve, that is one way to look at it. It is our house ! 🙂
Probably fall apart after a sail of 5 miles
Hey Larry. You could be right. We loved the aesthetic look and feel as well as most adjustments to the layout. Wrt the saloon and aft deck, it is a Bali-killer ! However, we know the value of a boat that has done a HUGE ‘test-sail’ such as crossing an ocean, as ours did. That is truly the test of the quality and the boat builders response, or lack thereof, is truly a test of the quality of the company and its people and management
Not very creative with storage solutions. They need to collaborate with The Container Store
people . That owners mattress is not even a queen size and it essentially forces couples into separate sleeping arrangements unless they’re well you know ..
Hi Paul, thanks for your comment. We didn't feel that the beds were too small for couples. We felt that they were sufficiently large for 99% of couples. Cheers, Kevin
So when is Utopia 2 coming in? That all electric package is like $200k US. I'm not sure the electric appliances come with that package or are they standard. I drank beer on the upper lounge during the owner's happy hour and the beer did taste slightly better. Could've been the boat or the fact the beers were free, not entirely sure.
The rumor mill has it that they're replacing the 50 with a 52. Perhaps it will have many of these same design features.
It was great seeing you at the show and the marina. You're leaving before I return, so smooth sailing.
David, SV Double Shot
Hey David !
Regarding Utopia 2, we do love the physical layout changes as well as the overall aesthetic improvement to the new Leopard but as far as buying their new Leopard 52 that will replace the 50, that won’t be happening due to increased weight. They needed to decrease, not increase weight !
Current Leopards are slow enough and it looks like the new models are even heavier. On our Atlantic crossing I saw how all that extra weight of our provisions slowed us down. We averaged 5.9kts from Cape Town to Grenada! It was painfully slow. So now I truly understand the effects of weight.
Thankfully we eventually shed our crew and all their luggage and in those months the crew helped us shed at least a tonne or two of supplies, including one of our two domestic 220v freezers. Additionally, when the three of us flew back to Australia, we took everything that we could and came back with nothing.
I have actually been thinking of a Utopia 2 of late . . . a Kinetic or similar but that money is over-the-top. I would only consider a Leopard if they could prove that the new 52 was measurably lighter than Utopia. It’s makes no sense that it just looks good but sails like a total dog ☹
Will you be in or around the Bahamas this coming season?
We leave Pier 7 in a week. Let me know if you need me to do anything on your boat.
Kevin