PS. If any of you watchers happen to work for governments or Think Tanks: I do these for fun in my spare time. It's a hobby. I can do far more substantive work like I used to do at the RAND Corporation with modest financial backing. If any of you think that might be of use...
As a Brit I believe we do try to tailor our military, but the trouble with any military configuration is the more it depends on technology than people the cost of assets and training rises and the size of the standing army reduces as it become more specialised. The issue is that when the anticipated battlefield changes you can’t reconfigure a focussed military in a month to meet a different threat. When we faced IED’s we had to develop new vehicles. When we faced unconventional forces instead of soviet invasion we had to reconfigure. Now the Ukraine is showing pads etc prevent these forces gaining battlefield air cover, so it’s become a conventional artillery war and long range guided weapons… we don’t have the stockpiles and factory’s making the shells. So what we can see is a need for a core flexible force that can respond to the unexpected and a capability to ramp up capability in most areas…. This is an almost impossible task …and leaves many like the UK trying to cover all bases but with limited capability. Only the really big player such as the US and increasingly China can equip to meet just about any eventuality at scale. Having a nuclear deterrent is important and those that don’t are dependant on those who do to provide the deterrent to aggressors who have one. This should not be underestimated. The NATO agreement is 2% of GDP I believe and few countries including Italy traditionally meet this requirement.
There's also a factor often disregarded, Italy defense industry is one of the most advanced worldwide, which makes Italian armed forces able to take advantage of many "home made" solutions.
Italians tried (the constellation class should have been 85% similar to the Italian FREMM frigate). But then the Congress said....nope. Making rhe Constellation class only 15% similar to a proven and great platform as FREMM. And that mean 5 years of delay for the first Constellation ship.
I had the privilege of working with the Italians. First, Cold War with the Alpinis and second, in Iraq, multiple fights in Nasiriha (google CAP Ricardo Cappelli). Probably got that spelling wrong. Great soldiers and I hope some day I can return to their country and thank them in person. Until then, my Salute with my utmost respect.
Overall a good unbiased analysis. As an Italian who has worked for the the Italian ministry of defense, we take pride in doing more with less and more money doesn't necessarily mean better quality. Italy's only glaring weakness over the years has been in its Ariete tank force, of which very few have been in active service. There is a modernization update program for them in process. However, if anyone has been paying attention of late, Italy's defense spending projects for the next few years have exploded with the war in Ukraine. Then, if one wants to compare the availability rate of Italian ships and planes to their NATO partners, there's a huge advantage in favor of Italy. I can confirm that personnel costs and pension expenditures have skyrocketed over the years for the military impacting training more than anything else. Regarding Afghanistan, keep in mind that Italy still had a conscript force until until 2004. That is why they were only sending their top units until about 2009-10.
Grazie per il punto di vista diretto che hai condiviso, molti italiani hanno idee sbagliate sulle nostre Forze Armate, perchè pensano che niente nel nostro Paese niente possa funzionare correttamente, ma in realta siamo un popolo estremamente capace e tendenti all’innovazione
There's also a switch in doctrine, as far as we can see in Ukraine. MBTs are not as important as they were in the past, at least in that theater. I expect to see more multi role / anti drone or fast incursion vehicles, maybe drone capable, for fast deployment.
Italy, as a mountainous peninsula, has a different defense requirement from the rest of Europe. In order to invade Italy you have to either cross the Alps (good luck with that!) or you have to invade by sea. Given the superb quality of the Italian Navy and the Alpini mountain troops, they can get by with less. Italy has no ambitions to project power.
@@carmenvalmalaartaraz8260 Remember that Italy as a nation has only existed since the late '800, even though, Truth be told, during the '900 we were invaded like 3 times lol. Of course the aupsburg didnt manage to conquer anything during ww1, and germans were already here during ww2 when we switched sides. The allies on the other hand didnt meet much resistance from italian troops since our Little king, as he was called, immediately fled and gave up the fight (of this im of course glad, dont get me wrong, fuck those fascist scum)
@@carmenvalmalaartaraz8260since Italy unified it happened only twice during ww2, before the unification there was no Italy but duchies or foreign powers.
It must be remembered that Italians have very important companies that produce for their defense, such as Leonardo, Agusta Westland, Fincantieri, Oto Melara etc... they produce for themselves and for the international market helicopters, aircraft carriers, frigates, weapons (Beretta for example), defense systems etc...
As a former officer in the Italian Army and still interested in our defence topics, I give you my best compliments for such an interesting and truthful analysis. Normally, we Italians are really keen to understimate our military, often because of the weakness in foreign politics of our governments, but also because many Italians in general don't care about the military people in our society, and look at them as a useless service. It's a matter of education, explained with the fascism rise in the 20s, 20 years of dictatorship and the outcomes of 2nd WW, but Ukraine taught us that "si vis pacem, para bellum" is always true, even after 2000 years. Thanks again.
It comes down to the ambition of being a global power vs being a regional power. This translates to nuclear weapons, carries, subs, transport etc capabilities. A better comparison to Italy would be Turkey.
However if Britain would need to intervene regionally, they might have more limited capabilities. And that's a problem. Thankfully with NATO we all cover different areas.
Greece and Turkey are pretty similar in size and power of It's millitary. Since battling for ages about islands. Italy has a very strong navy and costguard.
the British should stop to think they are a global power, they have not more "global" capabilities then Italy or Spain! The Navy, I mean if we watch how modern the Italian fleet is, from destroyers, now they are in the process to build the DDX classe destroyer, the frigates, the new PPA classe, I visited one of this ships, the command bridge looks like an airplane cockpit, then the satellite system Skymed, I think they have even an assembly line for the F35. Italy can intervene globally, of course not like the US, but surely like the UK or French
Italy has the advantage not to need nuclear attack submarines. Because any navy that wants to enter the Mediterranean Sea has to pass from either Suez, Gibraltar strait or Dardanelles strait. So they can just place there a slow but extremely silent AIP sub, that costs just a fraction of a nuclear attack submarine, and the enemy’s navy will have to pass from there. And it can wait there, sitting at the bottom without making any noise, for weeks without snorkeling. So no need to have submarines running up and down the oceans.
Not many know that Italy has about 90 nuclear bombs loaned by USA that can equip Panavia Tornado (about 50) and F35 with SCALP missiles or launched by MLRS
@@PietroColombo-em5mz I said nuclear powered attack submarines, I didn’t mentions missiles. Those are expensive, unlike the Italian AIP, that are slow, silent and deadly for any fleet if you pass in their vicinity. But Italy has anyway nuclear weapons too, as part of the nuclear sharing agreement with US. And the vectors are the f35, that given the quality of the Russian air defence, can reach as far as their internal tanks can provide. But I agree that Italy would need ballistic submarines too, but no need to get them nuclear powered, now with AIP technology yo7 can make submarines that can stay underwater for up to 3 weeks at the time, which is more tha enough to complete their mission. And anyway they would have very hard time to pass undetected the limits of the Mediterranean Sea. But is nit necessary. Noam South Korea is building ballistic AIP submarines, at a fraction the costs of nuclear powered ones.
Non abbiamo neache le centrali nucleari per produrre energia. È stata una scelta che si è ripercossa, credo, anche per la propulsione di qualsiasi mezzo civile o militare.
Not really, food it's definitely better in Italy but it's much cheaper in the UK. I'm Italian, I lived in the UK for 13 years and when I came back to Italy a few years ago I've found groceries and eating out much more expensive than in the UK. I don't know the situation now after Brexit, it may have changed.
@@monicabello1962 it depends on where you live, if you come to Sicily you can fill bags of fruit and veggies for 10-15€; in the UK, assuming you find the same veggies (but that's unlikely, it's much easier to find sweets and alcohol instead) you need at least £50 for the same amount.
It is a matter of taste, but overall northern europe has the worst food on the continent, not to say it is all bad, but comparisons are not favourable. When combined with higher prices in the north it really paints a grim picture.
Italy has not much money to spend like other countries, even if the budget for the military forces is always generous compared to other departments like healthcare. So why the Italian military forces still work well, the secret words are, logistics smart technology development and training. Italian Military forces have very competent people managing the logistics and organizing the forces activities, they know they have not a big budget available so they try to avoid wastes, money, time, resources are optimized and that makes all work well despite less money spent. Second Italy develops the technology they have been always best in, the rest is bought abroad only when necessary. Training is another good asset of the Italian military force, that means Italian elité soldiers have very specific high competence per unit, every operative soldier whatever force it is, is highly trained and that creates a general high competence in it's duty. And when knowledge is not enough they go abroad to get extra training. That makes the Italian forces very flexible in terms of operative capability.
Thank you for a balanced analysis. Dont forget the Carabiniere. This paramilitary police force enforcing the law at home have also been involved in numerous peace building and keeping operations. The Italians are now also thinking about bringing back national service.
Arma dei Carabinieri born as the Military Police of the ground Army. In the WW1 they also partially fight as common soldiers. So in WW2 . Some part works as Police, some of them are a selected army corp. But all of them are considered real military defense corp as Army or Navy ( sound strange I know, the same for me as an Italian )
I was in the British Army between 06 and 2017. The austerity measures set by the Cameron government killed the British Army. Out saucing recruitment, food service’s, accommodation services. Constantly kicking programmes down the road.
@@RRaymer yeah where does most of that go on the nuclear deterrent not the conventional forces. Britain only meets its 2% by adding other departments money into it like pensions and anti terror stuff. None of the big companies involved now where there pre Cameron government the military’s real terms finance shrunk.
@@RRaymer most of the budget goes on admin of projects which are not run by people who know how to stop overruns. thats not what the MoD job is, nor should it be. the treasury civil service are to blame there, as are the defense industries who see govt contracts as a money printer.
@@michaelshurkin613 sad thing is we could barely deploy a brigade and that would be for a short period of time if we had to do it. In the 80s we could deploy a corps size force (3 divisions) in less then 72 hours on the German plains. Even if we expanded the size of the army there are few people that have the ability to run a battalion or regiment unless you reenlisted lots of ex soldiers who have that experience of regimental/ battalion life
@@ChuckMarteau That is an untested theory.. if you're basing that on WW2, I'd say yes, you're right about the British.. but not the French! Italy has participated in many missions in the post-war era.. and successfully..
I really enjoyed your overview of the Italian Military. I live in the USA now, but I served as a Second Lieutenant in the italian Army back in 1979/82. obviously that was ages ago. So long ago that my specialty was the American Lance Missile, which was a tactical nuclear missile. Funny enough, in the time I served, there were a lot of protests against placing Nuclear Cruise Missiles in Italy, which was kind of funny because we had tactical Nukes at least since the “Honest John”, which was then supplanted by the “lance”, which in turn (assuming my research is correct) became the ATACMS (at the very least it looks like the warheads could be easily switched over, but the USA decided in the 90s to do away with tactical Nukes). I guess the protesters failed to do their research. Back in my day, Italy had a draft, so everyone had to serve. In my case I decided to do it as an officer because of the perks. I am not sorry I did. It was some of the best times I had. However, our equipment and training was indeed second rate (as proof, I was decorated for “excellent permormance” during one of the NATO excercises despite the litany of “lacks military attitude” notes in my official record). I think I simply was allergic to incompetent mid-level officers. Beside the Lance launcher and loader, I had a 2 1/2 ton truck, an M113, an actual Whillies Jeep (manufactured under license by Alfa Romeo (which I really wish I had in my garage today), later changed to a FIAT 4x4 SUV, and a variety of different vehicles depending on the mission. Our kit was were we really lacked. No one even discussed body armor. I guess that if I brought it up they would have told me to just put on a couple of more T-shirts. Since I was Missile Artillery, therefore supposed to be way behind the lines, my rifle was an M1 Garand modified by Beretta (if memory serves) for the 7.62 NATO round. Our best guess was that they were surplus from the Korean war, hence older than I was by a decade. Great rifle though, back then I was a bit pissed we didn’t have something more modern, but today I appreciate that I got to carry and shoot the Garand. Not many people under 90 years-old can say that. All in all, great video. If you ever need some help with translation, pronunciation or even research, drop me a message. I would like very much to learn more about the modern Italian Army and I follow the conflict in Ukraine very closely. I forgot many things, but learned many new ones since I served. As for “the Catch”, Italy has always put more money in their Navy and Air Force than their Army. I guess the Alps play a big role in that, just ask Hannibal. it’s also why our elite soldiers are the Alpini, and the italian version of the SEALS, or “Uomo Rana”. Frogmen. In fact, if I am not mistaken, we sort of invented the unit. Maybe a good topic for a future video. Lastly, the Troop Transport “Freccia” or “Arrow”, has a soft “C”. So, not Frekkia, but more of a C like “China”. In Italian the sound “K” is almost always a C followed by an H. If not, then it’s a “China” like sound. Hard to explain in text since the double C sound different than the single C regardless of the following H. It’s complicated and along with our verbs probably one of the reasons italian is not more used outside of italy :) Best regards.
@@andreadimatteo1036carabinieri and Guardia di Finanza are part of the military but act as paramilitary police forces. They both have tank brigades and their own air force and naval units.
@@edoardodario Guardia di Finanza is depending from another minister and the vehicles and equipments are for their duty of fiscal police, not suitable for a militarr confrontation. Carabinieri is a effective armed force as the army to whom it belonged until few years ago. PS Guardia di Finanza hasn't tank brigades.
@@andreadimatteo1036 I was only in Napoli to get on the train. Thanks for clarifying. So what looked like soldiers in camouflage are a kind of soldiers.
In effetti le speculazioni storiche, le quali dipingono inglesi e tedeschi, piuttosto che americani o francesi come eserciti affidabili, mentre relegano l'Italia alla coda della situazione, in quanto perse la guerra a causa della sua "negligenza" militare. In effetti, nessuno di questi eserciti avrebbe fatto meglio dell'Italia se avessero combattuto come fece l'Italia: praticamente armata con armi della prima guerra mondiale, e senza una motivazione reale come invece ebbero Francia, invasa di tedeschi, Inghilterra, attaccata dai tedeschi, o Germania, le cui motivazioni furono una rivalsa storica contro le nazioni che la umiliarono nel primo conflitto mondiale! Gli States avevano e hanno una forza costruttiva imponente e per questo possono permettersi di fare gli "eroi" nei conflitti che, spesso generano, o a cui partecipano! Dunque, la mia cara Italia entrò in un conflitto che non voleva a causa di un dittatore presuntuoso e, senza armi! Quanti degli eroici alleati avrebbero avuto il coraggio, o l'incoscienza di farlo? Noi italiani lo abbiamo fatto, e spesso con azioni eroiche! Ad armi pari e motivati ben pochi degli eroi citati ci terrebbero testa, è sicuro!
@giorgio-tc6ui Not to mention the English operation Daffodil, where the combined British forces were stopped and defeated practically by Italian troops alone with some scattered Germans here and there. In the night battles Tobruk was defended and held by Italians but the Germans took it over and the English were happy about it, they could not lose against genetically "inferior" soldiers.
@@andreaventrice07 "at Caporetto there were also the Germans that’s why we lost there." This is indeed true. The outstanding victory at Caporetto was basically a German one. "Against Austria Italy did fight quite well," Since the winter battle of the Carpathian Mountains 1914/15 the Danube monarchy basically just had a militia army at command with a very low combat value. Even against this very weak force Italy did not perform well. The Italian army was not prepared for war, its units were poorly equipped and the soldiers poorly trained. During the course of the war Italy was only able to achieve very limited territorial gains in 11 Battles of the Isonzo from 1915-1917 and finally suffered a devastating defeat in 1917.
Note: Italy is not going forward with the Leopard 2A8 order / Engineering vehicles based on it. They are instead looking now for Leonardo and Rheinmetall to produce 200KF51 and 350 KF41.
Because they think of Southern Italy, people kind of forget that Italy is actually an industrial power. It manufactures more value than Britain or France, in Europe second after Germany...
@RaySqw785 ariete can't be updated without massive and expensive re-design to match NATO standards. Ariete C2/AMV is a stopgap. At the moment, it's literally cheaper for Italy to buy a new platform rather than sink money to update an old, under armoured MBT.
Italy just ordered 25 new F-35, (15 F-35 A and 5 B for the air force; 5 B for the Navy]. Total fleet will be 115 F-35, of which 75 A and 20 B for the air force, 20 B for the navy.
@@RaySqw785 We like the Eurofighters, but they are not, in any way, usefull in any operational scenario as could be F-35s. said that, we also cannot enbark Eurofighers. We also use alot of other planes, but thats not because we don't like eurofighters, matter of fact, every time italians do intercept neutral other countries crossing air border, they do it with Eurofighters, with outstanding success.
As an American I’ve noticed that most Americans still see the European military powers based on their performance in WW2. So we tend to over estimate Germany and the UK. While we under estimate Italy, Poland, and Spain.
Yes. Never mind Poland's valiant efforts in WW2 and oversized contribution to the Allied victory. Oh, and we always, always forget Canada. Which happens to be the subject of my next video :)
@@michaelshurkin613 A value of goods worth 200 billion euros passes through the Suez Canal for Italy every year. For Italy, the Suez Canal represents about half of the amount and a third of exports, we are talking about significant numbers, but above all a fall on everyday life. This is why the Italian navy must be present in the Mediterranean!
They did planned to buy Leopards 2. Their parliament even voted for it but negociations with KNDS collapsed due to Italians wanting to replace a lot of internal gears with Leonardo's ones. For the germans, it was "buy the whole tank or nothing". The Panther is an unexpected plan B. I wouldn't bet too much on it. That tank only exists on paper right now.
Rheinmetall has granted the development in collaboration with Italian industries, in addition to the development also production will be carried out in Italy, These are the reasons for the choice.
As an Italian, I say you are pretty harsh with the Brits. The tools you need depend on the work you do: having a Queen Elizabeth comes handy when you need to defend an overseas territory, and not all the adversaries are as limited as Argentine. On the contrary, having a Cavour, or better a Trieste, gives you flexibility and allows you to project power well enough when the sea around you is the Mediterranean, while still be able to operate otside of it if needed. France and Italy bought a limited number of Horizon DD, as the Fremm works as well in the Mediterranean sea, but if you need to station for a long time on the other side of the world, a type 45, which is by all aspect equivalent to a Horizon, DD, is more convenient and the UK bought 8, but it's also more expensive. On the armoured side, both the UK and Italy are in bad shape, with mostly outdated vehicles. The C1 Ariete will be refurbished but has always been a prototype, as the intended C2 never came due to the Cold War end. Like for the Challanger 2 is running short of spares, often kept working through the cannibalization of phased out hulls. The British tank will get a new gun and turret but not a new engine, while the C2 will get a new engine but not the new gun. Both are old tanks, but apparently, the UK has more Challangers to update, so they will stay in service for longer Italy dropped the L2A8 for a joint development of the more promising KF51, not been allowed in the franco german shared development of the future tank. The Brits are buying the Ajax, while Italy is going for an ad hoc KF41. Both will buy the RCH-155 self propelled Horowitzer. The Centauro B2 is not an armoured troop carrier being sizeably more armoured. It serves as a rapid intervention force across the monutainous terrain splitting the peninsula and for the Isles, being able to move across mountain passes and using the civil infrastructures to autonomously reach the deployment zone. Missiles and Helicopters are about the same, with the UK renewing the troop transport fleet in the short term; the combat air fleet is similar, except for the lack of F35A to replace Tornados for the UK where the typhoon dobeverything. Training wise, the RAF and the RN send their pilots in Italy for the advanced training. New Frigates are being purchased by the UK about the same as a Fremm, but their new second class frigades are lacklustre, for what is know. Special Aircrafts are hit and miss, weith Italy being better in the AEW while The brits are doing much better with ASW and the UK having better coverage for Air Transport. The Brits obviously have nuclear weapons and submarines, which are not cheap, but Italy's U212 are better suited for the Mediterranean. Both nations have capable defence, and the new six generation fighter will be developed by both with Japan. Leonardo is present both in the UK and in Italy, producing helicopters and electronics.
I feel like the gist is this: they are roughly the same. For many, though, the fact that Italy's even really in the same league as the British is big news.
@@Arleq1Cause France and Germany did an European axis between them, don't wanting others to come in to maintain some sort of technological gap with others (that they doesn't have honestly). Italy instead militarly joined making an axis with UK upon air force and going with Rheinmetal, so Germany, regarding the MBT.
You have hit the point exactly, Italy has regional ambitions and is building a very good army with excellent equipment. Our budget would not allow us to have a good army with global ambitions. The choice of our aircraft carriers to be low-cost but highly effective multi-role aircraft is dictated by budgetary needs combined with the possibility of building a powerful and modern navy even if smaller than global powers such as the US or England. In addition to this, we have a cutting-edge military industry and the new class of tanks that will be developed together with the Germans will, I believe, mark a turning point in the heavy military industry. Italy is doing well, we must concretely do what is possible with our budget and support our allies with our military and industrial capabilities. However, yours is a very good video.
@@mattc9875 UK isn't even a regional power, they can't win a war against France in Europe, Italy is also a lot better than them. UK just shouts louder
Fascinating presentation on the Italians who are criminally overlooked. Could you do one on the Spanish, Michael? Thank you and keep the videos coming!
I intend to. Spain, like Italy, has a far more potent military than most imagine. I'm always surprised when I read about the fact that they, for example, have a carrier.
Italy developed the Centauro 1. Because during tge cold war, Italy had a boarder with Yugoslavia. And all was geared up to defend this boarder. But italy is also just over the Adriatic sea from the ex Jugoslavia. Easy to cross ad attack on the flank. So the Centauro Tank killer was developed. This way if the Eastern block tried to attack on the flank. A fast moving "battle tank like perfomance" road driving viechle could show up fast on the battle field slow down or stop the enemu and give the heavy tanks the time necessari to show up.
As an 18 year British Infantryman, I can say that the British Army is in far worse shape than you paint it to be on this channel sadly. The priorities of the powers that be baffles the average soldier. To give one small example; when I joined the Army in 2006, the standard issue infantry head mounted night vision was the PVS14 known as (HMNVS) In the British Army. I left in Oct Last year and this is still the standard issue with no real plans to replace it any time soon. The much newer NV33 dual tube with a thermal clip on is a game changer and has altered how we fight because it’s so good. But why would we rush to get good kit and make the infantry better at its job.
As I noted in my comment, I think a huge issue is, in 14 years of conservative government, we had 11 Ministers of State for Defence Procurement and Industry, and in 14 years 7 Secretary of States for Defence. It takes about a year to get to grips with a brief... So no one knows whats happening, and when they do, they are replaced, and any changes made, are themselves, changed by the new minister.
In The Changing of the Guard: the British army since 9/11 the author talks about how the British soldiers were jealous of how well equipped the US marines were but apparently US marines tend not to have the latest gear compared to the US army.
@adamjones1982 I'm sure that would mostly just come down to the soldiers dislike for the SA80, and affinity for the hip and trendy M4. Perhaps also the age of the SUSAT started to show by then, especially when compared to the more modern optics that were being rolled out to American troops for the first time. British soldier kit has otherwise been decently advanced, they were amongst the first to use optics for their rifles (combat troops went into the gulf with SUSAT) and also similarly to the US, were early adopters of body armour. Aside that, the Osprey and ECBA are very comparable to American body armour systems of the time. Since 2016 with the introduction of the Virtus, I'd say the British trooper has been better equipped. LLM+gripod+LDS+L85A3 is very lethal and longer range than an M4, too. Though the Brits have paid attention to their infantry equipment, the same cant be said for their armoured fleet. Comparatively whilst American armoured vehicles have been getting frequent modernizations, British armoured vehicles have not.
Saying that a Nuclear sub is better than a diesel-electric is like saying, that tractors are better than sportscars, or vice versa. Nuclear ain't as stealthy as D/E boats, but good on the big seas, such as the Atlantic and the Pacific. But in shallow water and close to the coast, it is diesel-electric boat area. In the first Iraq war, Denmark was asked to join with their D/E boats, because they could get in under land, and gather intelligence. A nuclear sub would never go that close to land, too noisy and too big. I don't think Italy wants to rule the seas, they just want to paddle around unseen, in the Mediterranean Sea. Remember the Swedish sub that "sank" the US carrier. A nuclear sub would never get close to a carrier group, way too many sensors will hear it.
@@Gert-DK the “noise” is coming from the bubbles produced by a prop wash, that’s why the design, development and construction method of propellers are highly classified… the problem with diesel-electric subs is endurance, especially if its mission is conducting surveillance…..a lot of non-nuclear navies are introducing or developing lithium ion batteries on their new class of attack subs….
@@OperationEndGame When I said that nuclear subs are noisy, even in idle, I meant it. You can't stop a reactor, so high pressure cooling water has to be circulated all the time. That high pressure water in the pipes is noisy. Nothing to do with the prop. A diesel-electric can go very close to absolutely silent. It is one of the reasons why they are preferred in shallow waters, up close to land.
OMG! I’m so excited to have come across this video. I completely agree with everything you've said. I too have always wondered, why does no one mention Italy when talking about global military powers, and why few people talk about its military industry? It has always been undervalued. After studying in Italy and witnessing much I’ve conducted extensive study and research on the influence of Italian military inventions and technology on British, American, and Japanese military advancements, but especially on the Soviet and Russian military industries. However, I was unable to publish my articles due to the indifference and rejection from major military magazines and journals as they believe the article wouldn't draw much attention. Perhaps this oversight stems from the poor performance of the Italian army during WWII, which overshadowed Italy’s military reputation?! However, as former GRU agent and bestselling author Viktor Suvorov remarked, “Nobody knew, and nobody believed in Italy’s amazing military achievements and bright minds. But GRU always knew and always believed in it” Thnx again!
I think its more due to Italy's relative inactivity. France and Britain fought multiple COIN campaigns (and for the British, even a few conventional wars) post 1945. Both countries had diminishing Empires but retained the capacity to project power and operate on multiple fronts abroad while maintaining a large conventional army in Europe, whereas Italy lost all its overseas territories post War so only had Italy to worry about and thus less opportunity to flex its muscles. Portugal, for instance, receives more interest post war than Italy thanks to its COIN campaigns in Africa and its recent ops in the Congo. Although I can't speak too much for France (which fought two failed wars in North Africa and Vietnam) they were able to conduct numerous campaigns in Africa (Mali, Congo, Chad and Burkino Faso) without requiring much external assistance. The British for their part conducted COIN in - Oman, Yemen, Cyprus, Kenya, Malaysia, Indonesia, Northern Ireland, Vietnam, Palestine/Israel as well as two conventional conflicts - Suez 1955 (with France and Israel) and Falklands 1982 and made sizeable contributions to NATO with BAOR as well as to the later 1st Gulf War, Kosovo and the Iraq and Afghan Wars. Until recently, it also made the largest contribution to Europe's Rapid Reaction force. It is also the ONLY country, that on two exercises with its Vulcan bombers was able to bypass American Nuclear defenses and strike American cities. So while Italy should certainly not be ignored, and has considerable potential, I think it is passed over primarily due to having a dull post-war record.
@benbevan1442 completely concur with everything abovementioned. Though Italy can boast with a vast history of participation in almost all main international peace keeping military campaigns, as well as assault operations such as libian campain and post libian campaign presence of its military in Africa. However, I would agree in the matter, that there is no completely indigenous and independent military operation after WWII conducted by Italy...
I lived in Italy, I have great respect for the Alpini. They are a mountain force without equal. What they endured during World War 1, is hard to imagine.
As someone that studied Italian, compared to other languages Italian is among the easiest to pronounce, and the only difficulty lies with C and G. But the rule is simple - and basically the same as in English. For the exceptions, it is often enough you think to English words coming from Italian. As in English, C and G are hard before *A, O,* and *U* or any consonant (but look at the final note about gn and gl) - like call, cut, extravagance (notice ga hard and ce soft) or gorgonzola or coffee - and soft before *E* and *I* - like concert (notice co hard and ce soft) or giraffe or concise. In these cases, you can add an s before to have the soft c to become a sh sound, like science. All these is exactly the same in English or really any language using the Latin alphabet - no mystery. Now, the rules that are specifically Italian. If you want to have a hard c or g before an E or I, you write *CH* and *GH* - like Zucchini or Spaghetti. If you want to have a soft c or g before A, O, U or consonant you add an *I* in between - like catenaccio (notice the first Ca hard while the group -ccio is pronounced with a soft doubled c thanks to the i). That is the case you mispronounced in your video: It is not frekkia, it is _freccia,_ pronounced like cappuccino or catenaccio. These simple rules cover all cases other than GN- and GL- that are quite difficult to pronounce if you are not Spanish or Italian (or South Indian, they have a lot of consonants!). If you know Spanish, GN is pronounced Ñ and GL is pronounced like LL in paella. As there is not a similar consonant sound in English, the best way for an Englishman in these cases is just to pronounce GN like NEE - like gnocchi - and ignore the G before the L, like tagliatelle. It is not correct, but an Italian would understand what you are trying to pronounce. Freccia pronounced with an hard c instead would not be understood.
Gl is a unique sound that is present only in the Italian language I recall as a child practicing it slowly because the sound comes from the sides of the tongue which is kept in a lower position
@@angelabender8132 It is surely peculiar, but "Only in the Italian language" is too much: the standard Italian GLI is a voiced alveolo-palatal lateral approximant consonant that is present in few other languages*. Most relevantly in Spanish-adjacent languages, both in Europe (for example Asturian, Catalan, and Basque) and on the Pacific Coast of South America. In many of these countries the LL is pronounced the same as GLI, both in Spanish and also in many traditional languages they have an alveolo-palatal (for example in Aymara). And I am sure there is this sound also in other languages, I would bet on Malayalam in South India. There are many languages in the World! * notice: this is about the _standard Italian_ GLI. In many dialects in Marche and Umbria I have heard a fricative version that is really peculiar, almost a GRI. That _could_ be indeed unique, although I am always skeptical about claims of uniqueness when speaking of languages!
The more I read about the Italian military the more respect I have for them. If you read accounts by the Brits and Germans during WWII, they both spoke surprisingly positively about the Italians. The claims that they didn’t fight very well are completely untrue. Both sides recorded that the Italians fought valiantly. If you read accounts by General Doolittle, the Italians resisted strongly enough that the Allies were actually unsure if they could defeat the axis. Doolittle wrote that the primary reason that the 8th Air Force had been unable to defeat the Germans was because a huge proportion of the resources had been diverted to fight against Italy. He stated that only when Italy surrendered did US forces in England receive proper support. What is even more surprising is that after the Italians surrendered, they were immediately asked to join the allied forces. Doolittle wrote that the Brits offered to set up a new Italian headquarters in the same building the Brits were using. They wanted to make the Italians equal partners. And if that sounds unbelievable, remember that Montgomery praised the Italians for fighting “A war without hate”.
as an Italian, the italian armed forces are actually pretty good, tho they miss a lot of funds, the average age of the personnel is way higher then in the UK, the Navy is going through a really bad moment due to the lack of sailors and, more importantly, the Army seriously lacks training camps. We might be quite capable, but our real capacities are being hold down by all these matters, if we don't want to take in consideration nepotism and the incompetent Ministers of Defense that we have had since the Meloni Government
It shows you how much history plays into the public image of the military and national identity, and how out of date we all are. The British military has a pretty illustrious history and the Italian's have been underated. Speaking as a Briton, Britain as a whole rests on its historical laurels, and is constantly looking backwards. I think past success can lead to a quite stunted culture with a fear of progress. We have an idea of British exceptionalism that hinders a lot of what we do. People have not got their heads around Britain's reduced place in the world.
Britain’s place in the world may be reduced from the global empire it once was but the doesn’t mean the uk is a pushover it’s the 6th largest economy, has one of the worlds most powerful financial centres, has the second largest aerospace industry, has the second largest private military industry, has nuclear weapons, has a seat on the in security council, is a leading member of nato, has one of the best intelligence agencies and special forces in the world, has one of the best air forces and navies in the world despite being small and underfunded, is the second most powerful country in terms of soft power, is a leader in AI development in Europe, is a leading member of the commonwealth, leading member of aukus, is a leading member of the five eyes alliance and has an close relationship with the United States so the uk may not be the superpower it once was but it still punches far above its weight and at the very least is a major regional power in Europe at best the uk is a great power but not a superpower
@@thomasbootham2707 Given. But we can't go alone anymore. We require the US or Europe. We were (until recently) one of the leaders of Europe and appreciated by the US. We are now irrelevant to the EU, and not as important to the US. Austrialia and Poland would be more relevant to the US's strategic needs.
@@1mlister Exactly, even at the peak of British power our success was driven by constantly forming alliances. Most of the British empire wasn't conquered by British soldiers, Waterloo was won by an Anglo-Dutch-Prussian coalition and with WW2 we rallied the entire free world to our cause (some faster than others).... people ignore that today because they think it's a weakness, but to me being able to work with others was our greatest strength
Italy does have a massive military history, just not in WW2... if you don't consider the Afrika Korps and the Italian Navy's impact in the Mediterranean. In WW1 Austria-Hungary surrendered to Italy days before Germany surrendered to France and the UK, and the war ended in enemy territory, contrary to what the French and British were capable of achieving. It means that perhaps Italy doesn't have a great military history in the UK, but again that's a different nation. Maybe you should check Italy if you are wondering whether Italy has a military history and narrative.
@@1mlister We're toast, as the yanks say. As by far the largest native-English speaking nation in an EU (that advantage is now with Ireland) that had half a billion people, we were in pole position to scoop up enormous amounts of tech and consultancy work modernising central/eastern EU telecoms, IT, transport networks. Try finding an Irish dude nowadays, 4 years after Brexit, with an IQ over 60 who isn't on 360€/day.
I went to a military pilgrimage a few years ago in France. Being a Catholic event, there were naturally an absolute ton of Italians present. I was sitting in a cafe with a Royal Navy sailor when what seemed like a thousand Italian soldiers marched by. We were making jokes about how loud their cadences were but my friend mentioned how yeah, we could goof on them for it, but they're proud to be Italians and they want you to know that. It's pride that I haven't seen from most of the militaries I've had the pleasure of interacting with, even in my dear Marine Corps...
Queen Elisabeth's class was designed to be STOBAR (skyjumps) aircraft carriers then they decided to turn them into CATOBAR (catapults) with F35C. For budget reasons, the government changed them again into STOBAR with F35B. And then they reduced the number of F35B they ordered. They can't constantly change their mind like this and hope to have cost effective equipement.
It must be said that the UK government is absolutely terrible when it comes to commitment. As an example, back when Concorde was being developed, the UK desperately wanted to pull out of the project and cancel it because "it cost too much **crybaby noises**". The French had been canny enough to put a no back-out clause into the contract forcing the largely useless British state into not backing out.
To be fair, the reversion to STOBAR wasn't solely budget drive. They were planning to use EMALS to launch and as a new untested technology they decided it wasn't worth the risk. It's a shame b/c it's obviously now working on USS Gerald R Ford but understandable at the time
To be fair, sizing the Italian Armed Forces and their budget is complicated. With Carabinieri and Guardia di Finanza technically within the AF but with a strong operational focus on Law Inforcement it's hard to qualify what's military proper and what's not. Carabinieri alone is 100,000 men strong. They operate mostly within the borders as law enforcement agency, but their dual nature (armed forced / law enforcement) makes them extremely apt for peacekeeping missions abroad. E.g. they can field both proper special force units (GIS - Tier 1 - with a strong counter-terrorism focus), regular military units and at the same time officers specialized in crime investigation (both militaty and civilian) and collaboration with civilian police forces and the judicial branch of goverment, and (something that in some scenarios can be critical) are used to deal with the civilian population on a daily basis.
@@silusiano Their collar patches say differently. In Italy, only the Armed Forced can wear flames with a five pointed star. Guardia di Finanza has yellow ones. If not for the color, they are identical to the ones the Alpini wear (which are green). GdF isn't called "Fiamme Gialle" for nothing. They also have military ranks identified also by a combination of five pointed stars. Look at insigna and ranks of Polizia di Stato: they don't use five pointed stars, they use pentagons or squares or other symbols, because they are not part of the Armed Forces. Everything on a Guardia di Finanza uniform says Armed Forces, if you know where to look. They have a Bandiera di Guerra (Flag of War) like any other military corps. From their site: "The current legal framework assigns to the Guardia di Finanza the contribution to the military security of the country, which puts the Corps in the largest integrated device of the Armed Forces." What sets them apart from other units of the Armed Forces is that they are under the direct command of the Ministery of Finances as opposed to the Ministery of Defence. But they are 100% military. In case of war, they are organized in batallions and companies and fielded alongside the other units. The matter may seem moot, UNLESS you're in the Armed Forces yourself. You need to know who holds a military rank above yours, as opposed to a civilian authority (like Polizia di Stato). Members of the GdF hold proper military ranks. Anyway, my original point is, under what budget do you list GdF?
@TheMule71 I didn't say that they are not organised militarily. I said they are not part of the armed forces, and their budget is under the Ministry of Economy and finance.
@@silusiano Let's see what they say about it: www.gdf.gov.it/it/chi-siamo/la-storia/storia-del-corpo " Nel 1907 venne inoltre esteso al Corpo l’uso delle stellette a cinque punte, simbolo comune dell’appartenenza alle Forze Armate, e nel 1911 quale consacrazione delle alte benemerenze conseguite dal Corpo nel Risorgimento, Vittorio Emanuele III firmò il Regio Decreto n. 325, con il quale fu concesso al Corpo l’uso della Bandiera di Guerra" Regardless what budget they're on, they are part of the Armed Forces. They even took part in peacekeeping ops for NATO. In peace times they are detached from the Armed Forces command - which is entirely a different matter.
the point is as military police they could be used in occupy territories but i dont think that gona happen anywhere in next wars, we not gona see a ww2 style war where military police is so much needed.
One could argue the Italian navy is the world's second most powerful when you consider the outsized importance of carriers to modern navies, both China and Italy are the only countries with at least three carriers other than the US, yes technically both Italy's Trieste and China's third carrier are still undergoing sea trials but the Trieste could go into combat if WW3 started and yes the Trieste is technically an amphibious assault carrier rather than a straight carrier but that is even better for force projection. Italy's carrier fighters are a mix of old harriers and new F-35 B's which soon will replace all the harriers. It was planned for the Garibaldi carrier to be replaced by the Trieste but considering the current world state of affairs with us being on the brink of WW3, I seriously doubt that will happen. The Italian carriers mostly have superior aircraft to the Chinese carrier aircraft, especially considering the Chinese aircraft engines are so weak they cannot take off with a full load of fuel and weapons from a carrier, in addition the Italian ships engines are faster and they are more agile not to mention more reliable such as not sinking in dock or smoking like they are on fire like Chinese ships, lol. For all these reasons I mentioned the Italian navy is better able to project power around the world than the Chinese navy so could be argued to be more powerful.
I am Italian and proud to belong to the Nation that inherited the might, the wisdom, the constructive will of the Roman Empire. Roman Empire which is the cradle of our Great Western Civilizstion. Therefore, French, British, German Spanish Anerican Canadian and Australian Armed forces should support one another, become more and more united, in order to face the great danger that our Great Western Civilization is facing today: the evil alliance among russia iran north-corea and china.
@@RoseBornagain north koreans and china supporting you doesnt help , but i agree that the people , russian chinese and n.koreans can be as good if not even better than us. states and wars and politics always mess it up
@@drno4837 romans were first conqueror of the etruscan ppl and rulers of italy they were italians as by today standards , still they prospered by letting every other religion stay and including every kind of conquered ppl /fighting for rome gave you the roman citizenship... so along the 1k+ years of roman empire many different rulers changed and many important ppl if not the most were not by today standards italian... still ... it's like saying england is not made by english or europe by europeans cause they let different culture govern them ... and moreover our italian culture inherit lots from them , probably most of any other country today, it's not all war related , expecially inheritance
I served with the Italian Army in its Western Afghanistan sector of Command (2008). We 300 american Op Phoenix, Combat Advisors were the American Army segment attached to operate in our NATO partner sector in Western Afghanistan (Camp Stone/Herat). Their Infantry and Command is made up of Career military. Yes, at one point they were a Draftee army but that was the past. Professional and well trained their units had my respect. True they do not have a Nuke sub fleet or Nuke capable expenses. They did have a larger (Warrant Officer) structure than other NATO militaries that i encountered. Skill sets were high by those that i encountered in the support/intel/signal fields. And I was impressed at their efforts to "retain" and re-enlist their manpower. And most that i encountered were on their second/third deployments as veterans. I agree with your comments on their readiness/logistics/equipment... I think the issue is their birth rate. How will they MAN the units.
People originally from other countries who now reside in Italy will likely fill the ranks, e.g., North Africans, Africans from the Sahel, sub-Saharan Africans, Albanians, etc.
The EU can field just less then 2 million armed personnel. Only China can boast of a larger (in numbers) fighting force. Individually the Countries of the EU field relatively small armies but combined they're formidable.
Fincantieri is a major global Italian shipbuilder. They build all sorts of ships, including state-of-the-art naval ships.. Italy is considered one of the best shipbuilders on the planet. This goes back many centuries.
Excellent channel. My congratulations. As, per a former Alpino (Mountain troops); I'd like to share that one of the last successful mission under UN, was the ONUMOZ in Mozambique (93'-95'). Deployed by the Alpini (in the past four brigades) included the Alpine Paratroops, currently called Ranger.
The same ignoring of Italy occurs when Health Care Systems are being compared.Italy sometimes is not even considered,even though it has one of the best Health care systems in the world.
@@falseflag545 The only really 'false' thing is a internet Troll like you who doesn't have the courage to even use his real name,because he wants to snipe behind his Tag name,but that for you is an old habit because you probably still hide between your mother's legs. There are people who can have an intelligent discussion ,but I see you are a typical Provincial American ( have to be,no one else could write such an idiot response) whose world view is as dumbed down as his nation.By the way, people of all ages die in Amerika simply because they can't afford health care or afford medicine.USA,USA,USA!!!
@@helloworld5219Well ,person so confident of their opinions they hide behind a tag name so they can snipe on the internet in complete anonanimity,or in lay terms a coward.I'll ask again .Do you use the Italian Health System?
One thing really benefitting the Italian navy in terms of cost is they don't need to account for range and power projection far from home whereas French and British navies will have to have a war fighting capability around the globe to defend their overseas territories. That's something that shouldn't be overlooked when comparing ship-to-ship.
QE has a far larger aircraft complement may be up to 4x. It displaces over twice the amount. The build cost is high but the operating costs in terms of crew are maybe similar or maybe 50% higher for much greater combat capability and labour costs are huge in the Western world. The Italian carriers are basically light carriers.
An excellent analysis altogether. I have two small remarks. First, I think you seem to underestimate the capabilities of modern AIP submarines operating within Italy’s AOI, where they are arguably better than nuclear attack subs due to the smaller acoustic signature and ability to operate in shallow waters. If Italy wanted to be a player in the indo-pacific they would clearly need SSN, but do they really want to? Secondly, Centauro came out of a very specific and unique set of requirements, that is to repel an amphibious landing on the peninsula. They have the same firepower of tanks and they can be deployed quickly in overwhelming numbers, negating the armour disadvantage. These vehicles also happen to be excellent in peacekeeping/low-intensity scenarios.
A value of goods worth 200 billion euros passes through the Suez Canal for Italy every year. For Italy, the Suez Canal represents about half of the amount and a third of exports, we are talking about significant numbers, but above all a fall on everyday life. This is why the Italian navy must be present in the Mediterranean, I remind you that in October of this year Italy became the fourth largest exporter in the world, surpassing Japan and South Korea
@8:23 It's funny you should mention that they used a smaller carrier to defeat the Argentinians in the Falklands. Britain never actually gained full air superiority during the Falklands war, resulting in the loss of a few British ships to Argentine Exocet missiles. Had the British had a larger carrier like the Queen Elizabeth, they may very well have been able to gain that air superiority and prevent the loss of their warships.
Yeah, agreed. The RN was significantly closer to disaster (not necessarily _losing_ but simply a more pyrrhic victory than they ultimately achieved) than most people understand. If it wasn’t for the _Belgrano_ ,most people would probably consider the naval war lost. With _that_ being said, the RNFAA absolutely smacked the heck out of the Argentines, and that was only with a light carrier and glorified attack aircraft. If they had a medium or heavy carrier, capable of launching Phantoms and Buccaneers… it would have been an absolute slaughter, given the quality of the FAA. With Buccaneers, the RAF probably wouldn’t have been forced to scramble to execute Black Buck, either. (Which was largely useless, though quite impressive)
You're forgetting one thing that the British military forces have embraced to ensure a war winning capability. Equity, diversity, and inclusivity with as few white, heterosexual males with generational links to Britain going back centuries as possible. That policy will overcome any adversary. Having said that, and being British, I've been called a traitor for saying that the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic display team is better than the Red Arrows.
Ariete is probably the most reliable MBT currently in use. It lasts way longer between services than any other tank. Its not fancy but it is well suited for the job
Just a note on British Regulars the 73,000 figure does not include ~4,000 Gurkhas, a minor note which doesn’t change the arguments made but just a factor to consider.
The Italian Navy and Air Force has top notch gear for their environment. The EW, electronic censors ( ATR ) , surveillance of the Mediterranean, the subs are cutting edge with secret gear and capabilities . Further Italy makes world leading helicopters and is one of the few F35 producers on the planet. Italy's other police government agencies like the Coast Guard, GdF, Carabinieri etc have in parts military capabilities. These agencies are referred to as "soldiers" in Italy. Italy appears to leave Germany in the dust when it comes to MPAs, the Israeli made EW & Control airplanes and submarines , helicopters etc. Italy's navy is more modern than Germanys.
Italy is a peninsula locked inside the Mediterranean, the UK is an island in the atlantic, the UK also has territories oversea, Italy doesn't. This means that Italy has no use for big nuclear powered carriers and submarines, while the UK still needs them.
UK nevah builded any nuclear carrier in his history, and since they failed H bomb, thier nuke stuffs are US "uk labeled" and thier heads "uk labeled" too, the keys are into the hands of the white house
At the time the Queen Elizabeth was ordered, it was anticipated the British Army would have101,000 full time trained soldiers, around 10,000 in training a volunteer reserve of 30,000 and around 10, 000 ex-full time force reservists available. There were to be 10 nuclear attack subs 8 large amphibious warfare ships and around 25 frigates and destroyers. The RAF and Fleet Air Arm was to have around 350 fighter/attack aircraft and the army 66 attack helicopters. In round terms a third of that planned force has been cut.
& My humble guess, MUCH better catering than the British military. Perhaps on par with the French, but i have only came across Italian Navy Catering (on land 15:34 , in Rome), but that was excellent... Also my guess, the Italian have developed strict defence purchasing procedures (to combat the age when they were in the hands of their suppliers,) which now give them a lot of bang for the buck. I.e. nurtured, but on a tight leach?
as a vet of the italian army, 186° folgore regiment, our catering wasnt AS great as you think, but having personally tasted what the brits and americans ate made me rethink my life decisions
As you stated the Cavour is currently in the Pacific. In addition to the eight x F35's on board they also have six x Harrier's on board. The Queen Elizabeth class carriers in their current configuration is a compromise. They were planned to carry the F35C which is more capable in terms of payload and range. At one stage they switched to the F35B which meant the QE was changed to a ski ramp configuration which cost more money. The UK government wanted to cancel the contract for one of them, but termination clauses in the contract meant that it would have cost as much to cancel as it would to have complete the ship. There was even talk for a while of selling the Prince of Wales to India. In hindsight three x Cavour class carriers would have been a better fit for the Royal Navy. They would have cost less and had more money to equip them with more F35B's. Right now, the UK even if all the F35B's they ordered were delivered, allowing for training, maintenance and embarking a full airwing onboard they would be hard pressed to fully equip one carrier in a surge capacity, nevermind two carriers.
Many legends about the ineffectiveness of the Italian army are due to Anglo-Saxon propaganda during the Second World War. The bad performances of the 1940s can be attributed to poor industrialization, the penetration of spies into the high command and the poor quality of the materials supplied to the army, certainly not to the military units themselves. This theory is supported by several episodes and by the fact that despite everything, Italy fought against practically the whole world until 1943 and then split in two with the north surrendering only in 1945 while the much more industrialized and prepared France resisted little more than a month.
I believe the Italian army went at the beginning with a wheeled platform for the Centauro because it was tailored for a fast response in Europe where road connections are more common. The Freccia and the Centauro II (that are born with the development of the first Centauro) are also due to the limitations of the national industries with tracked veichles. That's why when it came to a new tank and IFV the army asked directly abroad or with collaborations with local firms, because the local industry is behind the others. Regarding the problem of the lack of founding for supporting such military, for example rumors says that of those 200 Ariete at the moment only 40-50 are combat ready.
The biggest issue with the italian armed forces is the Ariete MBT, while its electronic components are up to date, the hull is basically just an OF-40 (read as: a leopard 1 copy) with some outdated composite armor slapped on it. Even the upgrade packages for it from what i've been able to find are just an amalgamation of smaller upgrade packs that are 20 years out of date. Again, the command & control capabilities, sensors, and all of that are great, the tanks themselves tough are probably the worst NATO MBTs currently operational, from my understanding the Arietes are completely incapable of surviving any kind of modern ammunition that could be thrown at them...and even many of the outdated ones. They were always intended to be lighter than their counterparts, because ideally they would almost never be deployed out of Italy, and our country's geography is generally inimical to heavy vehicles, but in my opinion the Centauro has the same capabilities of the Ariete as things stand, and it's cheaper. By and large the armor of the Ariete is useless, people will be quick to point out that tanks are not supposed to be hit in the first place on the modern battlefield, but again, at that point we might as well do away with the Ariete and just get more vehicles like the Centauro 2. I found it very funny that you pronounce Freccia (arrow) wrong, but in such a specific way that you end up saying frecchia (the "kia" pronunciation is written as "chia" in italian), that is in fact another italian word (a surname), so you're just 50% off. All in all, still one of the best iterations of an english speaker attempting to say italian words without a knowledge of the lenguage i've ever heard, props to you.
Thank you for this video! I know a thing or two about the German military, but my grandfather was an officer in the post WW2 Italian Army, a Bersaglieri. The Italian Army has always fascinated me and this video showcases great why they shouldn't be overlooked, yet i feel like that happens too often. As if theirs some kind of arrogance from the other countries. They have some very interesting recruiting strategies, which the Germans could also learn from. Having a region like the Italian South which isnt on par with the north to put it moddest, surely helps with driving people to the Army. The Germans have a similar (but far from the italian situation) phenomenon with their differences between East and West Germany. Also the fact that they have two independent "amphibious" Units, the San Marco Brigade and the Lagunari from Venice is surely unique iam not aware of any other army that has an equivalent of a unit like the lagunari or is anyone aware of one? Last but not least can someone recommend any literature on the modern italian armed forces? Iam afraid their isnt any in english or german while iam learning italian atm its still a far cry from being good enough for this subject...
Vi scrivo in italiano lascando a Translate tradurre concetti troppo tecnici per il mio inglese (mi spiace). Quello che va valutano nell'ottica sei sommergibili nucleari che leggevo nei commenti, è la visione geopolitica dell'Italia. All'italia "basta" il controllo del mediterraneo, quello che i romani chiamano "mare nostrum". L'Italia non ha ambizioni oceaniche, gli basta controllare il mare che controlla da 2500 anni. Per controllare il mediterraneo basta posizionarsi nei tre stretti con missili predisposti alla caccia della nave. i sommergibili nucleari servono per proiettare la forza negli oceani. L'Italia non deve proiettare niente, le basta difendere il Mediterraneo in cui è immersa.
Per difendere il mediterraneo devi poterti saper proiettare almeno nel mediterraneo e se vuoi mantenere aperte le linee di comunicazione e non ridurti a controllare uno stagno devi poter controllare anche le zone attigue agli stretti di ingresso, quindi golfo di Guinea e Oceano Indiano.
Magari potessimo veramente fare quello che dobbiamo x almeno far valere i confini italiani/europei…scusate se salto di palo in frasca ma è paradossale avere certe possibilità e non poterle utilizzare neanche in difensiva x motivi politici
Ma da quale sogno/sostanza ti sei risvegliato per scrivere una roba del genere? Da quando controlliamo il mediterraneo 🤣? Considerando poi che l'Italia esiste da 163 anni, i 2500 sono ancora più fantasy. Visto che poi lo abbiamo sempre fatto mi chiedo perché abbiamo avuto necessità 84 anni fa di entrare in guerra contro chi ne controllava gli accessi e le rotte (e che quindi per estensione dominava questo mare). Mi sa che ci confondi con gli USA.
Interesting that you mention personnel costs - that is something that both the Italian intelligence services and the Defense Ministry have pointed out to be the major handicap of the military
The B1 Centauro-1 was an actual wheeled tank destroyer, conceived during the eighties to contrast the soviet tanks in the Italian scenario and because it proved to be pretty useful also in the pace keeping missions, it was developed into the B2 Centauro-2, in order to make it even more effective in this new scenario. So yes, we can say it was created to satisfy a very specific requirement.
Perhaps the long standing political instability of Italy was an indirect reason for disregarding their potential military contribution. Would they stay the course in any conflict might have been an issue for 'strategic think tanks'? Italian Maritime Task Group plus an Air Force element was recently in Australia, very impressive display of global reach.
Firstly, thank you Sir for your video! I am a (very) new subscriber to your channel and I must say that I am happily surprised by the content which you create. It's definitely at the level of Perun. Yet, I would argue that one needs to already have a fairly good understanding of military matters in order to properly follow you. And that's a plus in my book! Secondly, I would say that carrier-wise (outside of the US Navy), it is more about the fleet accompanying the carrier (both above and underwater) than the actual carrier size itself. Thirdly, I will have to look into your past videos if you have already done content about Poland's Army and it's current (prime) position within Europe's strengths & requirements in terms of sheer Continental mass vis-a-vis the war in Ukraine (as opposed to FR for example). BTW, the SAMP/T Air Defense system is a Franco-Italian joint initiative with (some) differences between both options. But you already know that. Some would argue that both are better than the Patriot because of their 360 coverage. But I am no expert. Finally, one thing which "you forgot" about the Italian Infantry:... With their Beretta AX160, they surely have the nicest "Designer" assault rifle of them all! :-) Thanks again, your channel is serious and on-point.
You really can't compare the UK & Italian carriers and subs, they are for different roles. Also there is a chunk of RN expenditure on the nuclear deterrent and protecting it, that the Italians do not have at all. That fundamentally changes their ability to independently face down a nuclear threat from Russia. That is crucial for the defense of Europe in the event of a Manchurian candidate in the White House. The UK is concerned with long range expeditionary power, and therefore the logistic tail for supporting it, but not in having to defend against a ground invasion, hence reduced heavy armored units. Italy's focus on the Med and neighboring zones is absolutely correct for their needs. That said, (1) all NATO forces are severely understaffed, & under funded given the current threat, (2) everyone is severely behind with drones, affordable long range large volume cruise missiles, long range SAMS and counter-drone ShorRAD.
Anche noi abbiamo una marea di deterrenza nucleare da caricare sugli F35. Si trovano tutte nella base militare di Ghedi e rappresenta il secondo deposito nucleare più grosso a livello continentale europeo. L'unica differenza é che l'interruttore (i codici) non li teniamo noi italiani ma li tiene tutti lo zio Sam. 😂😂😂 Così noi bambini italiani non facciamo marachelle... 😉
I've never had the pleasure of working with the Italian military, but Italy has always produced amazing works of art, and that artisty shows through in their design and manufacture of very fine implements of battle.
Re Alpine regiments. British military indeed comprises elite alpine troops. Whilst the British Army does not have mountain troops, Royal Marine Commandos, all receive mountain warfare training in Scotland and in Norway, and the corps comprises a mountain leadership fighting unit based in Norway.
In reality, Alpini brigade aren't no more focused only in the traditional Alpine high-peak or Norway-kind of artic/extreme warfare they had untill the 90s Those moved to a more generic "light brigade" role, with an emphasis on rough terrains where more 'on foot' than 'on wheel' - they worked well both in roadless Bosnia/Kosovo hills, and in relatively more mobile Afghanistan operations. Mountain warfare is still there, there still is the Alpine School, but Alpini are a now Swiss-knife kind of brigades.
@@ulissedazante5748 Yes, apart from the Alpini paratroopers "Monte Cervino", which are special forces, the Alpini are a specialised unit. Specialised ≠ special forces. Alpini fight conventional operations.
@@gs7828 yep, the Monte Cervino upgraded into a "ranger" special operation force. The two Alpini Brigades are conventional light infantry with a twist.
Hi Michael. Thanks for the video. Quick Italian pronunciation tip: Freccia = Freccha; Celso = Chelso The C sound is soft with e and i vowels, and ch is the hard sound (eg. k)
L Italia ha una storia millenaria che nessun popolo al mondo ha..a partire dal grande impero romano che durò circa 900 anni a finire con le rupubbliche marinare e serenissima Venezia ..dobbiamo essere orgogliosi della nostra storia millenaria gloriosa .
As an addendum, in Italy, you are only considered a "veteran" if you served in war zone. However, if you are a "veteran" you command a quiet respect that you do not see in the USA. When I visited my family in Italy my young nephews developed a bad case of hero worship to the point that I finally told them that I simply did my job and there was nothing particularly "heroic" about it. Although I must confess that it was a bit flattering.
Spanish Army has the Centauro I 105mm as most of the Italian Army. The first Centauro II 120mm are just being issued here in Italy, it will take years to fully replace the old ones. Brasil just bought some Centauro II 120mm, too: the plan is producing under license there, but the first italian-made were just arrived.
Sono d'accordo sul fatto che all'italia manca ancora di flotta di droni da combattimento ma è una necessità molto recente e ci stiamo attrezzando in casa per provvedere.
Italians won a world war, Germany lost both! Do we want to talk about modern times? The United States has not won a war since 1946, it has lost them all, creating only local problems and destabilizations who have filled Italy with illegal immigrants (like in North Africa a few years ago during the Obama administration together with the English and French), wars lost even against small armies like the Vietnamese. Do we no longer remember the images that came from Afghanistan, with Americans running away like rats? here no one can afford to give lessons in superiority given the poor results of all Western nations in terms of wars.
Fun fact: The US Navy managed to ... "improve" the italian FREMM frigate to such an extent that the cost has literally "exploded" and has also delayed the project's schedule.
US Congress fault. The starting project of NAVSEA was to modify only the mast and the weapon systems, it was de facto almost a "ready to go" building ship, remaining the 85% similar to a FREMM. But the US Congress said "nope, we want to built it 100 American" so the NAVSEA had to reproject the whole thing with a similarity with a FREMM of only 15%. Doing that the US Navy engineers did some huge projectual mistakes, discovered by the Shipbuilder (the Italian Fincantieri) that sended back the projects to NAVSEA to make them be reprojected. That's why the costs have exploded and the timeline becomes abysmal. US Political games and US Navy engineers incompetence.
I've been following the evolution of the Italian armed forces for some time now, and I must say, with some surprise, that this government is adopting an international posture that hasn’t been seen in years. They are methodically working on the future with the awareness that, unfortunately, geopolitical scenarios are deteriorating, and we are entering a phase where a clash of cultures appears on the horizon, not only on the economic front but eventually, certainly, on the military front (and Ukraine teaches us a lot about this). What I find particularly interesting is that public opinion, typically not inclined to deep analysis and always ready to react emotionally rather than rationally, does not seem to be interested in this phase of profound rearmament. I think it’s a great shame because, setting aside the pacifism that each of us has to some extent, pragmatism is needed for a mature people who are aware of their strength, who know how to manage it, and who take pride in being at the forefront alongside the best. This feeling typically does not align with the dynamics of military policies. Unfortunately, the “woke” mentality has gained a foothold in many other Western countries, not just in the United States. Thanks for This very interesting analysis.
yep, the woke virus is THE threat all west countries are facing, and its heavily founded. see how much changed in the last 20 years and imagine what will happen in the next 20 at this rate :)
The problem with the army in Italy is that most people have this passive pacifist mindset that really limits what a government can do to improve our military capabilities. No party will ever promise to spend more money on the defence budget because they know that they'll be massacred by the opposition, and even their own voters won't care or defend them
Italy lost WW2. Its constitution forbids much of the “global ambitions” available to France or UK. Defence (on the Med), or UN missions are ok, for else, it would not be approved by Parliament.
As for nuclear, as signatory of non proliferation treaties, there are some 80 tactical nuclear bombs lent by USA in its arsenal to stop an eventual (Soviet now Russia) land invasion which is the reason Tornado jets are still in use
@@ezioauditore1522Se tu pensi che la Russia o la Cina non ti attacchino nuclearmente, solo perchè non possiedi bombe nucleari sul tuo suolo, ti sbagli di grosso. Meglio averle e far venire il dubbio che si possa rispondere, che non averne e dare certezza agli avversari che se lanciano, loro ne usciranno indenni.
PS. If any of you watchers happen to work for governments or Think Tanks: I do these for fun in my spare time. It's a hobby. I can do far more substantive work like I used to do at the RAND Corporation with modest financial backing. If any of you think that might be of use...
@@michaelshurkin613 You do a very good job and make excellent observations.
Thank you for the video, I am proud to be Italian.
Thank you for content. We do not share the same view on this video. I enjoyed watching and yelling at monitor ;-)
As a Brit I believe we do try to tailor our military, but the trouble with any military configuration is the more it depends on technology than people the cost of assets and training rises and the size of the standing army reduces as it become more specialised. The issue is that when the anticipated battlefield changes you can’t reconfigure a focussed military in a month to meet a different threat. When we faced IED’s we had to develop new vehicles. When we faced unconventional forces instead of soviet invasion we had to reconfigure. Now the Ukraine is showing pads etc prevent these forces gaining battlefield air cover, so it’s become a conventional artillery war and long range guided weapons… we don’t have the stockpiles and factory’s making the shells. So what we can see is a need for a core flexible force that can respond to the unexpected and a capability to ramp up capability in most areas…. This is an almost impossible task …and leaves many like the UK trying to cover all bases but with limited capability. Only the really big player such as the US and increasingly China can equip to meet just about any eventuality at scale. Having a nuclear deterrent is important and those that don’t are dependant on those who do to provide the deterrent to aggressors who have one. This should not be underestimated. The NATO agreement is 2% of GDP I believe and few countries including Italy traditionally meet this requirement.
@@FrancescoZasa
There's also a factor often disregarded, Italy defense industry is one of the most advanced worldwide, which makes Italian armed forces able to take advantage of many "home made" solutions.
Leonardo is a big ass company
@@thesupreme8062 in partnership with british defense industry
@@thesupreme8062Fincantieri also
2 secrets , Leonardo and Fincantieri
@@massimobernardo- Leonardo and Fincantieri are the same company
As a French citizen I really like our collaborations with Italy, the FREMM frigates and the SAMP/T are great example of what we can do together.
They are excellent
Yes, French and Italian work great together, unless our asinine politicians that like to emphasize historical differences of generations ago.
Horizon classe destroyer, aster missile family.
The US may need the Italian Navy’s help in rebuilding it’s surface fleet
Italians tried (the constellation class should have been 85% similar to the Italian FREMM frigate).
But then the Congress said....nope. Making rhe Constellation class only 15% similar to a proven and great platform as FREMM. And that mean 5 years of delay for the first Constellation ship.
I had the privilege of working with the Italians. First, Cold War with the Alpinis and second, in Iraq, multiple fights in Nasiriha (google CAP Ricardo Cappelli). Probably got that spelling wrong. Great soldiers and I hope some day I can return to their country and thank them in person. Until then, my Salute with my utmost respect.
Amnazzare la gente in casa altrui lo chiami lavoro??
well Capelli is hair, while Cappelli is hats
🤔🤷
Thanks from Italy. Con rispetto. Best to you
@@Scarletraven87 sei n coione ma nn è colpa tua dillo a mamma
Ciao, Mr Jack
The best defense strategy is to remain unpercieved. The italian military is nowhere mentioned.
Italy just follows the advice from Art of War - when you're strong, try to appear weak
@@italianspaghett4359always a timely book
@@italianspaghett4359 we only follow the chiagn e fotti rule my dear, i wish we were that wise
and, a truly Italian (Roman) phrase - si vis pacem para bellum!
Exactly. Being ignored by everyone when strong is bad ass and actually makes it much more lethal.
Overall a good unbiased analysis. As an Italian who has worked for the the Italian ministry of defense, we take pride in doing more with less and more money doesn't necessarily mean better quality. Italy's only glaring weakness over the years has been in its Ariete tank force, of which very few have been in active service. There is a modernization update program for them in process. However, if anyone has been paying attention of late, Italy's defense spending projects for the next few years have exploded with the war in Ukraine. Then, if one wants to compare the availability rate of Italian ships and planes to their NATO partners, there's a huge advantage in favor of Italy. I can confirm that personnel costs and pension expenditures have skyrocketed over the years for the military impacting training more than anything else. Regarding Afghanistan, keep in mind that Italy still had a conscript force until until 2004. That is why they were only sending their top units until about 2009-10.
Thank you. Good information.
Your English is good. Molto bene😊
Grazie per il punto di vista diretto che hai condiviso, molti italiani hanno idee sbagliate sulle nostre Forze Armate, perchè pensano che niente nel nostro Paese niente possa funzionare correttamente, ma in realta siamo un popolo estremamente capace e tendenti all’innovazione
Dal tuo nome di certo non facevi parte dello staff di salvini hahahaha
There's also a switch in doctrine, as far as we can see in Ukraine. MBTs are not as important as they were in the past, at least in that theater. I expect to see more multi role / anti drone or fast incursion vehicles, maybe drone capable, for fast deployment.
Italy, as a mountainous peninsula, has a different defense requirement from the rest of Europe. In order to invade Italy you have to either cross the Alps (good luck with that!) or you have to invade by sea. Given the superb quality of the Italian Navy and the Alpini mountain troops, they can get by with less. Italy has no ambitions to project power.
thanks god we are italian and not US or UK .. unfortunally we are going through a real barbarian period thank to you
How many times has the Italian peninsula been invaded in the last 500 years, 10-20 times?
It is not about Italy being invaded by anyone, it is about Italy contributing forces to the defence of Europe. Think Russia.
@@carmenvalmalaartaraz8260 Remember that Italy as a nation has only existed since the late '800, even though, Truth be told, during the '900 we were invaded like 3 times lol. Of course the aupsburg didnt manage to conquer anything during ww1, and germans were already here during ww2 when we switched sides. The allies on the other hand didnt meet much resistance from italian troops since our Little king, as he was called, immediately fled and gave up the fight (of this im of course glad, dont get me wrong, fuck those fascist scum)
@@carmenvalmalaartaraz8260since Italy unified it happened only twice during ww2, before the unification there was no Italy but duchies or foreign powers.
Some of the best troops I ever worked with were the Folgore. Great guys!
I believe it.
BUNCH OF FASCISTS
@@banmadaboncope and seethe
i mean they're the elite paratrooper forces, they're extremely professional
@@banmadabon ora dillo senza piangere 😏
It must be remembered that Italians have very important companies that produce for their defense, such as Leonardo, Agusta Westland, Fincantieri, Oto Melara etc... they produce for themselves and for the international market helicopters, aircraft carriers, frigates, weapons (Beretta for example), defense systems etc...
Very interesting observation.
Italy produces some of the best weapons in the world.
True. The German navy exclusively relies on Oto Melara as providers for their main naval guns.
As a former officer in the Italian Army and still interested in our defence topics, I give you my best compliments for such an interesting and truthful analysis.
Normally, we Italians are really keen to understimate our military, often because of the weakness in foreign politics of our governments, but also because many Italians in general don't care about the military people in our society, and look at them as a useless service.
It's a matter of education, explained with the fascism rise in the 20s, 20 years of dictatorship and the outcomes of 2nd WW, but Ukraine taught us that "si vis pacem, para bellum" is always true, even after 2000 years.
Thanks again.
Thanks for watching:)
@@michaelshurkin613
Thanks, and I will forward it too!
It comes down to the ambition of being a global power vs being a regional power.
This translates to nuclear weapons, carries, subs, transport etc capabilities. A better comparison to Italy would be Turkey.
However if Britain would need to intervene regionally, they might have more limited capabilities. And that's a problem. Thankfully with NATO we all cover different areas.
Greece and Turkey are pretty similar in size and power of It's millitary. Since battling for ages about islands.
Italy has a very strong navy and costguard.
Ambition ? I think the word "illusion" would be more apt.
@@themsmloveswar3985
the British should stop to think they are a global power, they have not more "global" capabilities then Italy or Spain! The Navy, I mean if we watch how modern the Italian fleet is, from destroyers, now they are in the process to build the DDX classe destroyer, the frigates, the new PPA classe, I visited one of this ships, the command bridge looks like an airplane cockpit, then the satellite system Skymed, I think they have even an assembly line for the F35. Italy can intervene globally, of course not like the US, but surely like the UK or French
Italy has the advantage not to need nuclear attack submarines. Because any navy that wants to enter the Mediterranean Sea has to pass from either Suez, Gibraltar strait or Dardanelles strait. So they can just place there a slow but extremely silent AIP sub, that costs just a fraction of a nuclear attack submarine, and the enemy’s navy will have to pass from there. And it can wait there, sitting at the bottom without making any noise, for weeks without snorkeling. So no need to have submarines running up and down the oceans.
The fact to have no nuclear deterrence, is an handicap, not an advantage. Nukes and their vectors, are the most expensive voices in military budget.
Not many know that Italy has about 90 nuclear bombs loaned by USA that can equip Panavia Tornado (about 50) and F35 with SCALP missiles or launched by MLRS
@@PietroColombo-em5mz I said nuclear powered attack submarines, I didn’t mentions missiles. Those are expensive, unlike the Italian AIP, that are slow, silent and deadly for any fleet if you pass in their vicinity.
But Italy has anyway nuclear weapons too, as part of the nuclear sharing agreement with US. And the vectors are the f35, that given the quality of the Russian air defence, can reach as far as their internal tanks can provide. But I agree that Italy would need ballistic submarines too, but no need to get them nuclear powered, now with AIP technology yo7 can make submarines that can stay underwater for up to 3 weeks at the time, which is more tha enough to complete their mission. And anyway they would have very hard time to pass undetected the limits of the Mediterranean Sea. But is nit necessary. Noam South Korea is building ballistic AIP submarines, at a fraction the costs of nuclear powered ones.
I did not know this.
Non abbiamo neache le centrali nucleari per produrre energia. È stata una scelta che si è ripercossa, credo, anche per la propulsione di qualsiasi mezzo civile o militare.
Also food in Italy is better than the UK and it’s 1/10 of the cost
British food is a serious deterrent to any invader.
@@EdMcF1 agree
Not really, food it's definitely better in Italy but it's much cheaper in the UK. I'm Italian, I lived in the UK for 13 years and when I came back to Italy a few years ago I've found groceries and eating out much more expensive than in the UK. I don't know the situation now after Brexit, it may have changed.
@@monicabello1962 it depends on where you live, if you come to Sicily you can fill bags of fruit and veggies for 10-15€; in the UK, assuming you find the same veggies (but that's unlikely, it's much easier to find sweets and alcohol instead) you need at least £50 for the same amount.
It is a matter of taste, but overall northern europe has the worst food on the continent, not to say it is all bad, but comparisons are not favourable. When combined with higher prices in the north it really paints a grim picture.
Italy has not much money to spend like other countries, even if the budget for the military forces is always generous compared to other departments like healthcare. So why the Italian military forces still work well, the secret words are, logistics smart technology development and training. Italian Military forces have very competent people managing the logistics and organizing the forces activities, they know they have not a big budget available so they try to avoid wastes, money, time, resources are optimized and that makes all work well despite less money spent. Second Italy develops the technology they have been always best in, the rest is bought abroad only when necessary. Training is another good asset of the Italian military force, that means Italian elité soldiers have very specific high competence per unit, every operative soldier whatever force it is, is highly trained and that creates a general high competence in it's duty. And when knowledge is not enough they go abroad to get extra training. That makes the Italian forces very flexible in terms of operative capability.
Thank you for a balanced analysis. Dont forget the Carabiniere. This paramilitary police force enforcing the law at home have also been involved in numerous peace building and keeping operations.
The Italians are now also thinking about bringing back national service.
Really? Because of Ukraine?
Arma dei Carabinieri born as the Military Police of the ground Army. In the WW1 they also partially fight as common soldiers. So in WW2 . Some part works as Police, some of them are a selected army corp. But all of them are considered real military defense corp as Army or Navy ( sound strange I know, the same for me as an Italian )
@@MrPolicekarim for many reasons. As of now its not confirmed my politicians are working on it
The Carabinieri aren't paramilitary, they're gendarmerie
@@lolloblue9646 you are misinformed. The Italian armed forces include four branches of service: Army, Carabinieri, Navy, and Air Force.
I was in the British Army between 06 and 2017. The austerity measures set by the Cameron government killed the British Army. Out saucing recruitment, food service’s, accommodation services. Constantly kicking programmes down the road.
There is no Austerity ffs. You have the most bloated military budget in Europe. And the highest capita spending per soldier.
@@RRaymer yeah where does most of that go on the nuclear deterrent not the conventional forces. Britain only meets its 2% by adding other departments money into it like pensions and anti terror stuff. None of the big companies involved now where there pre Cameron government the military’s real terms finance shrunk.
I've heard this many times from British Army personnel and UK defense analysts.
@@RRaymer most of the budget goes on admin of projects which are not run by people who know how to stop overruns. thats not what the MoD job is, nor should it be. the treasury civil service are to blame there, as are the defense industries who see govt contracts as a money printer.
@@michaelshurkin613 sad thing is we could barely deploy a brigade and that would be for a short period of time if we had to do it. In the 80s we could deploy a corps size force (3 divisions) in less then 72 hours on the German plains. Even if we expanded the size of the army there are few people that have the ability to run a battalion or regiment unless you reenlisted lots of ex soldiers who have that experience of regimental/ battalion life
The Italian military doesn’t involve itself in the public eye that’s why it’s not talked about.
Our special forces saved a turkish ship from terrorists.
But yes you are right about that
Well to be honest they're not on par with France and the UK when sh•t hits the fan.
@@ChuckMarteau
And what makes you say that?
@@ChuckMarteau Thank you for your honesty then - now i learned the truth
@@ChuckMarteau That is an untested theory.. if you're basing that on WW2, I'd say yes, you're right about the British.. but not the French! Italy has participated in many missions in the post-war era.. and successfully..
I really enjoyed your overview of the Italian Military. I live in the USA now, but I served as a Second Lieutenant in the italian Army back in 1979/82.
obviously that was ages ago. So long ago that my specialty was the American Lance Missile, which was a tactical nuclear missile. Funny enough, in the time I served, there were a lot of protests against placing Nuclear Cruise Missiles in Italy, which was kind of funny because we had tactical Nukes at least since the “Honest John”, which was then supplanted by the “lance”, which in turn (assuming my research is correct) became the ATACMS (at the very least it looks like the warheads could be easily switched over, but the USA decided in the 90s to do away with tactical Nukes). I guess the protesters failed to do their research.
Back in my day, Italy had a draft, so everyone had to serve. In my case I decided to do it as an officer because of the perks. I am not sorry I did. It was some of the best times I had. However, our equipment and training was indeed second rate (as proof, I was decorated for “excellent permormance” during one of the NATO excercises despite the litany of “lacks military attitude” notes in my official record). I think I simply was allergic to incompetent mid-level officers.
Beside the Lance launcher and loader, I had a 2 1/2 ton truck, an M113, an actual Whillies Jeep (manufactured under license by Alfa Romeo (which I really wish I had in my garage today), later changed to a FIAT 4x4 SUV, and a variety of different vehicles depending on the mission.
Our kit was were we really lacked. No one even discussed body armor. I guess that if I brought it up they would have told me to just put on a couple of more T-shirts. Since I was Missile Artillery, therefore supposed to be way behind the lines, my rifle was an M1 Garand modified by Beretta (if memory serves) for the 7.62 NATO round. Our best guess was that they were surplus from the Korean war, hence older than I was by a decade. Great rifle though, back then I was a bit pissed we didn’t have something more modern, but today I appreciate that I got to carry and shoot the Garand. Not many people under 90 years-old can say that.
All in all, great video. If you ever need some help with translation, pronunciation or even research, drop me a message. I would like very much to learn more about the modern Italian Army and I follow the conflict in Ukraine very closely. I forgot many things, but learned many new ones since I served.
As for “the Catch”, Italy has always put more money in their Navy and Air Force than their Army. I guess the Alps play a big role in that, just ask Hannibal. it’s also why our elite soldiers are the Alpini, and the italian version of the SEALS, or “Uomo Rana”. Frogmen. In fact, if I am not mistaken, we sort of invented the unit. Maybe a good topic for a future video.
Lastly, the Troop Transport “Freccia” or “Arrow”, has a soft “C”. So, not Frekkia, but more of a C like “China”. In Italian the sound “K” is almost always a C followed by an H. If not, then it’s a “China” like sound. Hard to explain in text since the double C sound different than the single C regardless of the following H. It’s complicated and along with our verbs probably one of the reasons italian is not more used outside of italy :)
Best regards.
Powerful Italy , respect from 🇮🇳
Great India!
@MariaTeresa-b7w 🤝
Italy has a significant number of soldiers patrolling in the streets of Italy (armed in camouflage) Alongside at least two kinds of police.
Police isn't counted as armed force for militar purpose, Carabinieri yes, they are different and they are militar in the same way than army
@@andreadimatteo1036carabinieri and Guardia di Finanza are part of the military but act as paramilitary police forces. They both have tank brigades and their own air force and naval units.
@@edoardodario Guardia di Finanza is depending from another minister and the vehicles and equipments are for their duty of fiscal police, not suitable for a militarr confrontation. Carabinieri is a effective armed force as the army to whom it belonged until few years ago. PS Guardia di Finanza hasn't tank brigades.
@@andreadimatteo1036
I was only in Napoli to get on the train. Thanks for clarifying.
So what looked like soldiers in camouflage are a kind of soldiers.
@@Jakob_DK probably Carabinieri
In effetti le speculazioni storiche, le quali dipingono inglesi e tedeschi, piuttosto che americani o francesi come eserciti affidabili, mentre relegano l'Italia alla coda della situazione, in quanto perse la guerra a causa della sua "negligenza" militare. In effetti, nessuno di questi eserciti avrebbe fatto meglio dell'Italia se avessero combattuto come fece l'Italia: praticamente armata con armi della prima guerra mondiale, e senza una motivazione reale come invece ebbero Francia, invasa di tedeschi, Inghilterra, attaccata dai tedeschi, o Germania, le cui motivazioni furono una rivalsa storica contro le nazioni che la umiliarono nel primo conflitto mondiale! Gli States avevano e hanno una forza costruttiva imponente e per questo possono permettersi di fare gli "eroi" nei conflitti che, spesso generano, o a cui partecipano! Dunque, la mia cara Italia entrò in un conflitto che non voleva a causa di un dittatore presuntuoso e, senza armi! Quanti degli eroici alleati avrebbero avuto il coraggio, o l'incoscienza di farlo? Noi italiani lo abbiamo fatto, e spesso con azioni eroiche! Ad armi pari e motivati ben pochi degli eroi citati ci terrebbero testa, è sicuro!
ben detto compatriota!
@giorgio-tc6ui
Not to mention the English operation Daffodil, where the combined British forces were stopped and defeated practically by Italian troops alone with some scattered Germans here and there.
In the night battles Tobruk was defended and held by Italians but the Germans took it over and the English were happy about it, they could not lose against genetically "inferior" soldiers.
"We Italians have done it, and often with heroic actions!"
Italian performance in WW1 was as bad as in WW2. Just saying.
@@kodor1146 Against Austria Italy did fight quite well, at Caporetto there were also the Germans that’s why we lost there.
@@andreaventrice07 "at Caporetto there were also the Germans that’s why we lost there."
This is indeed true. The outstanding victory at Caporetto was basically a German one.
"Against Austria Italy did fight quite well,"
Since the winter battle of the Carpathian Mountains 1914/15 the Danube monarchy basically just had a militia army at command with a very low combat value. Even against this very weak force Italy did not perform well. The Italian army was not prepared for war, its units were poorly equipped and the soldiers poorly trained. During the course of the war Italy was only able to achieve very limited territorial gains in 11 Battles of the Isonzo from 1915-1917 and finally suffered a devastating defeat in 1917.
Note: Italy is not going forward with the Leopard 2A8 order / Engineering vehicles based on it.
They are instead looking now for Leonardo and Rheinmetall to produce 200KF51 and 350 KF41.
Because they think of Southern Italy, people kind of forget that Italy is actually an industrial power. It manufactures more value than Britain or France, in Europe second after Germany...
@@here_be_dragons9184 Yes. I often forget this myself. For Americans, Italy's all about beautiful tourist destinations. We don't see industrial Italy.
Noted. my info was out of date.
KF51 ?? they can keep thier ariete and modernise it, MGCS will outdate all those
@RaySqw785 ariete can't be updated without massive and expensive re-design to match NATO standards. Ariete C2/AMV is a stopgap. At the moment, it's literally cheaper for Italy to buy a new platform rather than sink money to update an old, under armoured MBT.
Italy just ordered 25 new F-35, (15 F-35 A and 5 B for the air force; 5 B for the Navy]. Total fleet will be 115 F-35, of which 75 A and 20 B for the air force, 20 B for the navy.
it show how they rate thier amazing eurofighters lol
@@RaySqw785 Italy just ordered 24 new tranche 4 Eurofighters to replace tranche 1 units.
@@donkeymarco
@@RaySqw785 We like the Eurofighters, but they are not, in any way, usefull in any operational scenario as could be F-35s. said that, we also cannot enbark Eurofighers. We also use alot of other planes, but thats not because we don't like eurofighters, matter of fact, every time italians do intercept neutral other countries crossing air border, they do it with Eurofighters, with outstanding success.
For the moment, I think that more will follow, if we have to replace the AMXes, the AV-8B AND the Tornadoes, until we start getting the Tempests.
A very interesting videos. Thanks a lot for this segment about the Italians military, way too often overlooked.
Thank you for watching.
@@michaelshurkin613Context is the mother of all reason, I found some of the information and comparison’s definitely subject to scrutiny at the least.
As an American I’ve noticed that most Americans still see the European military powers based on their performance in WW2.
So we tend to over estimate Germany and the UK. While we under estimate Italy, Poland, and Spain.
Yes. Never mind Poland's valiant efforts in WW2 and oversized contribution to the Allied victory. Oh, and we always, always forget Canada. Which happens to be the subject of my next video :)
That would be a mistake to under estimate those NATO partners
@@michaelshurkin613Canada currently is a joke so don’t create any false expectations 😂
To be fair Spain is to be underestimated by sheer unwillingness to spend on Military
You're spot on.
If you think about it, controlling the Mediterranean means controlling at least 1/3 of the world economy.
Agreed. Controlling the Med is not nothing. It's not like controlling Lake Como.
The Mediterranean is controlled by Chinese and Turkish mafias.
@@michaelshurkin613 lots of countries, lots of borders, three continents, many armies....hell of a job
@@michaelshurkin613 which in any case isn't all that bad either, strolling down Villa D'este or Bellagio soaking in the sun 🤷♂
@@michaelshurkin613 A value of goods worth 200 billion euros passes through the Suez Canal for Italy every year. For Italy, the Suez Canal represents about half of the amount and a third of exports, we are talking about significant numbers, but above all a fall on everyday life. This is why the Italian navy must be present in the Mediterranean!
A correction: Italy plans to buy 200+ of the new German Panther tank, not the Leopard 2A8, as I said in the video.
They did planned to buy Leopards 2. Their parliament even voted for it but negociations with KNDS collapsed due to Italians wanting to replace a lot of internal gears with Leonardo's ones. For the germans, it was "buy the whole tank or nothing".
The Panther is an unexpected plan B. I wouldn't bet too much on it. That tank only exists on paper right now.
Not because they wanted one forward gear and six reverse gears? @@Penero7
Rheinmetall has granted the development in collaboration with Italian industries, in addition to the development also production will be carried out in Italy, These are the reasons for the choice.
There will be about 200 Panther F51 and about less than 800 Lynx.
@@UsaqMadiqthe same old bullshit. Even after we saved multiple times your ass in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Wow we asked and you delivered! Very much appreciated 🙏
My pleasure. Thank you for watching
As an Italian, I say you are pretty harsh with the Brits. The tools you need depend on the work you do: having a Queen Elizabeth comes handy when you need to defend an overseas territory, and not all the adversaries are as limited as Argentine. On the contrary, having a Cavour, or better a Trieste, gives you flexibility and allows you to project power well enough when the sea around you is the Mediterranean, while still be able to operate otside of it if needed. France and Italy bought a limited number of Horizon DD, as the Fremm works as well in the Mediterranean sea, but if you need to station for a long time on the other side of the world, a type 45, which is by all aspect equivalent to a Horizon, DD, is more convenient and the UK bought 8, but it's also more expensive. On the armoured side, both the UK and Italy are in bad shape, with mostly outdated vehicles. The C1 Ariete will be refurbished but has always been a prototype, as the intended C2 never came due to the Cold War end. Like for the Challanger 2 is running short of spares, often kept working through the cannibalization of phased out hulls. The British tank will get a new gun and turret but not a new engine, while the C2 will get a new engine but not the new gun. Both are old tanks, but apparently, the UK has more Challangers to update, so they will stay in service for longer
Italy dropped the L2A8 for a joint development of the more promising KF51, not been allowed in the franco german shared development of the future tank.
The Brits are buying the Ajax, while Italy is going for an ad hoc KF41. Both will buy the RCH-155 self propelled Horowitzer.
The Centauro B2 is not an armoured troop carrier being sizeably more armoured. It serves as a rapid intervention force across the monutainous terrain splitting the peninsula and for the Isles, being able to move across mountain passes and using the civil infrastructures to autonomously reach the deployment zone.
Missiles and Helicopters are about the same, with the UK renewing the troop transport fleet in the short term; the combat air fleet is similar, except for the lack of F35A to replace Tornados for the UK where the typhoon dobeverything. Training wise, the RAF and the RN send their pilots in Italy for the advanced training.
New Frigates are being purchased by the UK about the same as a Fremm, but their new second class frigades are lacklustre, for what is know. Special Aircrafts are hit and miss, weith Italy being better in the AEW while The brits are doing much better with ASW and the UK having better coverage for Air Transport.
The Brits obviously have nuclear weapons and submarines, which are not cheap, but Italy's U212 are better suited for the Mediterranean.
Both nations have capable defence, and the new six generation fighter will be developed by both with Japan. Leonardo is present both in the UK and in Italy, producing helicopters and electronics.
I feel like the gist is this: they are roughly the same. For many, though, the fact that Italy's even really in the same league as the British is big news.
Why isn't Italy allowed to get in the MGCS program? I thought that it was the Italian who didn't want to participate.
@@Arleq1Cause France and Germany did an European axis between them, don't wanting others to come in to maintain some sort of technological gap with others (that they doesn't have honestly). Italy instead militarly joined making an axis with UK upon air force and going with Rheinmetal, so Germany, regarding the MBT.
The Italian have always had very substandard infantry not the experience or professionalism of the British
@@Jrichards30 Ignorance at his finesse.
You have hit the point exactly, Italy has regional ambitions and is building a very good army with excellent equipment. Our budget would not allow us to have a good army with global ambitions. The choice of our aircraft carriers to be low-cost but highly effective multi-role aircraft is dictated by budgetary needs combined with the possibility of building a powerful and modern navy even if smaller than global powers such as the US or England. In addition to this, we have a cutting-edge military industry and the new class of tanks that will be developed together with the Germans will, I believe, mark a turning point in the heavy military industry. Italy is doing well, we must concretely do what is possible with our budget and support our allies with our military and industrial capabilities. However, yours is a very good video.
England...global power? 😂
Britain
@@JohnDoe-uw9nqwhos navys better???
@@JohnDoe-uw9nqthe UK is definitely a global power and a strong member of NATO and the 5 eyes
@@mattc9875 UK isn't even a regional power, they can't win a war against France in Europe, Italy is also a lot better than them. UK just shouts louder
Fascinating presentation on the Italians who are criminally overlooked. Could you do one on the Spanish, Michael? Thank you and keep the videos coming!
I intend to. Spain, like Italy, has a far more potent military than most imagine. I'm always surprised when I read about the fact that they, for example, have a carrier.
@@michaelshurkin613 actually two. Cavour and Trieste.
@@fabioarui596he was referring to Spain I reckon
@@BolognabeefPrince of Asturias I believe
This is such amazing content to get for free. If you keep doing these this channel will get big.
Italy developed the Centauro 1. Because during tge cold war, Italy had a boarder with Yugoslavia. And all was geared up to defend this boarder. But italy is also just over the Adriatic sea from the ex Jugoslavia. Easy to cross ad attack on the flank. So the Centauro Tank killer was developed. This way if the Eastern block tried to attack on the flank. A fast moving "battle tank like perfomance" road driving viechle could show up fast on the battle field slow down or stop the enemu and give the heavy tanks the time necessari to show up.
Now It was developed Centauro 2
Italy’s military isn’t exactly on the radar here in Australia so thank you for producing this interesting primer.
Yet it was from you a month ago with aircraft carriers, F35s and Eurofighters.
And yet you have all those pizza parlors in Australia
@@Mr.BensonGrazie a Dio almeno la smettete di mangiare i canguri e potete mangiare qualcosa di buono…..
Australia ‘s military non pervenuta here
@@nicolettastrada5976ma perché l'Australia ha un esercito?😮🤔😄
As an 18 year British Infantryman, I can say that the British Army is in far worse shape than you paint it to be on this channel sadly. The priorities of the powers that be baffles the average soldier. To give one small example; when I joined the Army in 2006, the standard issue infantry head mounted night vision was the PVS14 known as (HMNVS) In the British Army. I left in Oct Last year and this is still the standard issue with no real plans to replace it any time soon. The much newer NV33 dual tube with a thermal clip on is a game changer and has altered how we fight because it’s so good. But why would we rush to get good kit and make the infantry better at its job.
I'm sorry to hear this. I think the world of British soldiers. Reminds me of that line from WW1: Lions led by donkeys.
As I noted in my comment, I think a huge issue is, in 14 years of conservative government, we had 11 Ministers of State for Defence Procurement and Industry, and in 14 years 7 Secretary of States for Defence. It takes about a year to get to grips with a brief... So no one knows whats happening, and when they do, they are replaced, and any changes made, are themselves, changed by the new minister.
@@michaelshurkin613lions led by donkeys is historically lazy …
In The Changing of the Guard: the British army since 9/11 the author talks about how the British soldiers were jealous of how well equipped the US marines were but apparently US marines tend not to have the latest gear compared to the US army.
@adamjones1982 I'm sure that would mostly just come down to the soldiers dislike for the SA80, and affinity for the hip and trendy M4. Perhaps also the age of the SUSAT started to show by then, especially when compared to the more modern optics that were being rolled out to American troops for the first time.
British soldier kit has otherwise been decently advanced, they were amongst the first to use optics for their rifles (combat troops went into the gulf with SUSAT) and also similarly to the US, were early adopters of body armour. Aside that, the Osprey and ECBA are very comparable to American body armour systems of the time.
Since 2016 with the introduction of the Virtus, I'd say the British trooper has been better equipped. LLM+gripod+LDS+L85A3 is very lethal and longer range than an M4, too. Though the Brits have paid attention to their infantry equipment, the same cant be said for their armoured fleet. Comparatively whilst American armoured vehicles have been getting frequent modernizations, British armoured vehicles have not.
Saying that a Nuclear sub is better than a diesel-electric is like saying, that tractors are better than sportscars, or vice versa. Nuclear ain't as stealthy as D/E boats, but good on the big seas, such as the Atlantic and the Pacific. But in shallow water and close to the coast, it is diesel-electric boat area. In the first Iraq war, Denmark was asked to join with their D/E boats, because they could get in under land, and gather intelligence. A nuclear sub would never go that close to land, too noisy and too big.
I don't think Italy wants to rule the seas, they just want to paddle around unseen, in the Mediterranean Sea.
Remember the Swedish sub that "sank" the US carrier. A nuclear sub would never get close to a carrier group, way too many sensors will hear it.
Not to sound like a dick but have you ever been involved in ASW in anyway?
Diesel subs require to more on the surface to recharge its batteries, whereas a nuke powered subs can be below the surface longer….
@@OperationEndGame Thats correct, but remember a nuclear sub is more noisy, even if idle.
@@Gert-DK the “noise” is coming from the bubbles produced by a prop wash, that’s why the design, development and construction method of propellers are highly classified… the problem with diesel-electric subs is endurance, especially if its mission is conducting surveillance…..a lot of non-nuclear navies are introducing or developing lithium ion batteries on their new class of attack subs….
@@OperationEndGame When I said that nuclear subs are noisy, even in idle, I meant it. You can't stop a reactor, so high pressure cooling water has to be circulated all the time. That high pressure water in the pipes is noisy. Nothing to do with the prop. A diesel-electric can go very close to absolutely silent. It is one of the reasons why they are preferred in shallow waters, up close to land.
OMG! I’m so excited to have come across this video. I completely agree with everything you've said. I too have always wondered, why does no one mention Italy when talking about global military powers, and why few people talk about its military industry? It has always been undervalued.
After studying in Italy and witnessing much I’ve conducted extensive study and research on the influence of Italian military inventions and technology on British, American, and Japanese military advancements, but especially on the Soviet and Russian military industries. However, I was unable to publish my articles due to the indifference and rejection from major military magazines and journals as they believe the article wouldn't draw much attention.
Perhaps this oversight stems from the poor performance of the Italian army during WWII, which overshadowed Italy’s military reputation?! However, as former GRU agent and bestselling author Viktor Suvorov remarked, “Nobody knew, and nobody believed in Italy’s amazing military achievements and bright minds. But GRU always knew and always believed in it”
Thnx again!
I think its more due to Italy's relative inactivity. France and Britain fought multiple COIN campaigns (and for the British, even a few conventional wars) post 1945. Both countries had diminishing Empires but retained the capacity to project power and operate on multiple fronts abroad while maintaining a large conventional army in Europe, whereas Italy lost all its overseas territories post War so only had Italy to worry about and thus less opportunity to flex its muscles. Portugal, for instance, receives more interest post war than Italy thanks to its COIN campaigns in Africa and its recent ops in the Congo. Although I can't speak too much for France (which fought two failed wars in North Africa and Vietnam) they were able to conduct numerous campaigns in Africa (Mali, Congo, Chad and Burkino Faso) without requiring much external assistance. The British for their part conducted COIN in - Oman, Yemen, Cyprus, Kenya, Malaysia, Indonesia, Northern Ireland, Vietnam, Palestine/Israel as well as two conventional conflicts - Suez 1955 (with France and Israel) and Falklands 1982 and made sizeable contributions to NATO with BAOR as well as to the later 1st Gulf War, Kosovo and the Iraq and Afghan Wars. Until recently, it also made the largest contribution to Europe's Rapid Reaction force. It is also the ONLY country, that on two exercises with its Vulcan bombers was able to bypass American Nuclear defenses and strike American cities. So while Italy should certainly not be ignored, and has considerable potential, I think it is passed over primarily due to having a dull post-war record.
@benbevan1442 completely concur with everything abovementioned. Though Italy can boast with a vast history of participation in almost all main international peace keeping military campaigns, as well as assault operations such as libian campain and post libian campaign presence of its military in Africa.
However, I would agree in the matter, that there is no completely indigenous and independent military operation after WWII conducted by Italy...
I lived in Italy, I have great respect for the Alpini. They are a mountain force without equal. What they endured during World War 1, is hard to imagine.
As someone that studied Italian, compared to other languages Italian is among the easiest to pronounce, and the only difficulty lies with C and G. But the rule is simple - and basically the same as in English. For the exceptions, it is often enough you think to English words coming from Italian.
As in English, C and G are hard before *A, O,* and *U* or any consonant (but look at the final note about gn and gl) - like call, cut, extravagance (notice ga hard and ce soft) or gorgonzola or coffee - and soft before *E* and *I* - like concert (notice co hard and ce soft) or giraffe or concise. In these cases, you can add an s before to have the soft c to become a sh sound, like science. All these is exactly the same in English or really any language using the Latin alphabet - no mystery.
Now, the rules that are specifically Italian. If you want to have a hard c or g before an E or I, you write *CH* and *GH* - like Zucchini or Spaghetti. If you want to have a soft c or g before A, O, U or consonant you add an *I* in between - like catenaccio (notice the first Ca hard while the group -ccio is pronounced with a soft doubled c thanks to the i). That is the case you mispronounced in your video: It is not frekkia, it is _freccia,_ pronounced like cappuccino or catenaccio.
These simple rules cover all cases other than GN- and GL- that are quite difficult to pronounce if you are not Spanish or Italian (or South Indian, they have a lot of consonants!). If you know Spanish, GN is pronounced Ñ and GL is pronounced like LL in paella. As there is not a similar consonant sound in English, the best way for an Englishman in these cases is just to pronounce GN like NEE - like gnocchi - and ignore the G before the L, like tagliatelle. It is not correct, but an Italian would understand what you are trying to pronounce. Freccia pronounced with an hard c instead would not be understood.
Gl is a unique sound that is present only in the Italian language
I recall as a child practicing it slowly because the sound comes from the sides of the tongue which is kept in a lower position
@@angelabender8132 It is surely peculiar, but "Only in the Italian language" is too much: the standard Italian GLI is a voiced alveolo-palatal lateral approximant consonant that is present in few other languages*. Most relevantly in Spanish-adjacent languages, both in Europe (for example Asturian, Catalan, and Basque) and on the Pacific Coast of South America. In many of these countries the LL is pronounced the same as GLI, both in Spanish and also in many traditional languages they have an alveolo-palatal (for example in Aymara).
And I am sure there is this sound also in other languages, I would bet on Malayalam in South India. There are many languages in the World!
* notice: this is about the _standard Italian_ GLI. In many dialects in Marche and Umbria I have heard a fricative version that is really peculiar, almost a GRI. That _could_ be indeed unique, although I am always skeptical about claims of uniqueness when speaking of languages!
The more I read about the Italian military the more respect I have for them. If you read accounts by the Brits and Germans during WWII, they both spoke surprisingly positively about the Italians. The claims that they didn’t fight very well are completely untrue. Both sides recorded that the Italians fought valiantly. If you read accounts by General Doolittle, the Italians resisted strongly enough that the Allies were actually unsure if they could defeat the axis. Doolittle wrote that the primary reason that the 8th Air Force had been unable to defeat the Germans was because a huge proportion of the resources had been diverted to fight against Italy. He stated that only when Italy surrendered did US forces in England receive proper support. What is even more surprising is that after the Italians surrendered, they were immediately asked to join the allied forces. Doolittle wrote that the Brits offered to set up a new Italian headquarters in the same building the Brits were using. They wanted to make the Italians equal partners. And if that sounds unbelievable, remember that Montgomery praised the Italians for fighting “A war without hate”.
as an Italian, the italian armed forces are actually pretty good, tho they miss a lot of funds, the average age of the personnel is way higher then in the UK, the Navy is going through a really bad moment due to the lack of sailors and, more importantly, the Army seriously lacks training camps. We might be quite capable, but our real capacities are being hold down by all these matters, if we don't want to take in consideration nepotism and the incompetent Ministers of Defense that we have had since the Meloni Government
It shows you how much history plays into the public image of the military and national identity, and how out of date we all are. The British military has a pretty illustrious history and the Italian's have been underated. Speaking as a Briton, Britain as a whole rests on its historical laurels, and is constantly looking backwards. I think past success can lead to a quite stunted culture with a fear of progress. We have an idea of British exceptionalism that hinders a lot of what we do. People have not got their heads around Britain's reduced place in the world.
Britain’s place in the world may be reduced from the global empire it once was but the doesn’t mean the uk is a pushover it’s the 6th largest economy, has one of the worlds most powerful financial centres, has the second largest aerospace industry, has the second largest private military industry, has nuclear weapons, has a seat on the in security council, is a leading member of nato, has one of the best intelligence agencies and special forces in the world, has one of the best air forces and navies in the world despite being small and underfunded, is the second most powerful country in terms of soft power, is a leader in AI development in Europe, is a leading member of the commonwealth, leading member of aukus, is a leading member of the five eyes alliance and has an close relationship with the United States so the uk may not be the superpower it once was but it still punches far above its weight and at the very least is a major regional power in Europe at best the uk is a great power but not a superpower
@@thomasbootham2707 Given. But we can't go alone anymore. We require the US or Europe. We were (until recently) one of the leaders of Europe and appreciated by the US. We are now irrelevant to the EU, and not as important to the US. Austrialia and Poland would be more relevant to the US's strategic needs.
@@1mlister Exactly, even at the peak of British power our success was driven by constantly forming alliances. Most of the British empire wasn't conquered by British soldiers, Waterloo was won by an Anglo-Dutch-Prussian coalition and with WW2 we rallied the entire free world to our cause (some faster than others).... people ignore that today because they think it's a weakness, but to me being able to work with others was our greatest strength
Italy does have a massive military history, just not in WW2... if you don't consider the Afrika Korps and the Italian Navy's impact in the Mediterranean. In WW1 Austria-Hungary surrendered to Italy days before Germany surrendered to France and the UK, and the war ended in enemy territory, contrary to what the French and British were capable of achieving. It means that perhaps Italy doesn't have a great military history in the UK, but again that's a different nation. Maybe you should check Italy if you are wondering whether Italy has a military history and narrative.
@@1mlister We're toast, as the yanks say. As by far the largest native-English speaking nation in an EU (that advantage is now with Ireland) that had half a billion people, we were in pole position to scoop up enormous amounts of tech and consultancy work modernising central/eastern EU telecoms, IT, transport networks. Try finding an Irish dude nowadays, 4 years after Brexit, with an IQ over 60 who isn't on 360€/day.
I went to a military pilgrimage a few years ago in France. Being a Catholic event, there were naturally an absolute ton of Italians present. I was sitting in a cafe with a Royal Navy sailor when what seemed like a thousand Italian soldiers marched by. We were making jokes about how loud their cadences were but my friend mentioned how yeah, we could goof on them for it, but they're proud to be Italians and they want you to know that. It's pride that I haven't seen from most of the militaries I've had the pleasure of interacting with, even in my dear Marine Corps...
Queen Elisabeth's class was designed to be STOBAR (skyjumps) aircraft carriers then they decided to turn them into CATOBAR (catapults) with F35C. For budget reasons, the government changed them again into STOBAR with F35B. And then they reduced the number of F35B they ordered.
They can't constantly change their mind like this and hope to have cost effective equipement.
It must be said that the UK government is absolutely terrible when it comes to commitment.
As an example, back when Concorde was being developed, the UK desperately wanted to pull out of the project and cancel it because "it cost too much **crybaby noises**".
The French had been canny enough to put a no back-out clause into the contract forcing the largely useless British state into not backing out.
To be fair, the reversion to STOBAR wasn't solely budget drive. They were planning to use EMALS to launch and as a new untested technology they decided it wasn't worth the risk. It's a shame b/c it's obviously now working on USS Gerald R Ford but understandable at the time
@debbiegilmsources?our6171
@@PJH13 The French seem content to go with EMALS, even with it being 100% American. Normally that makes them very reluctant.
@@michaelshurkin613 or chinese, or french, at the price the General dynamic sells it, they can invest into, its not rocket science
To be fair, sizing the Italian Armed Forces and their budget is complicated. With Carabinieri and Guardia di Finanza technically within the AF but with a strong operational focus on Law Inforcement it's hard to qualify what's military proper and what's not.
Carabinieri alone is 100,000 men strong. They operate mostly within the borders as law enforcement agency, but their dual nature (armed forced / law enforcement) makes them extremely apt for peacekeeping missions abroad. E.g. they can field both proper special force units (GIS - Tier 1 - with a strong counter-terrorism focus), regular military units and at the same time officers specialized in crime investigation (both militaty and civilian) and collaboration with civilian police forces and the judicial branch of goverment, and (something that in some scenarios can be critical) are used to deal with the civilian population on a daily basis.
Guardia di finanza is not part of the armed forces.
@@silusiano Their collar patches say differently. In Italy, only the Armed Forced can wear flames with a five pointed star.
Guardia di Finanza has yellow ones. If not for the color, they are identical to the ones the Alpini wear (which are green). GdF isn't called "Fiamme Gialle" for nothing.
They also have military ranks identified also by a combination of five pointed stars.
Look at insigna and ranks of Polizia di Stato: they don't use five pointed stars, they use pentagons or squares or other symbols, because they are not part of the Armed Forces.
Everything on a Guardia di Finanza uniform says Armed Forces, if you know where to look.
They have a Bandiera di Guerra (Flag of War) like any other military corps.
From their site: "The current legal framework assigns to the Guardia di Finanza the contribution to the military security of the country, which puts the Corps in the largest integrated device of the Armed Forces."
What sets them apart from other units of the Armed Forces is that they are under the direct command of the Ministery of Finances as opposed to the Ministery of Defence.
But they are 100% military. In case of war, they are organized in batallions and companies and fielded alongside the other units.
The matter may seem moot, UNLESS you're in the Armed Forces yourself. You need to know who holds a military rank above yours, as opposed to a civilian authority (like Polizia di Stato). Members of the GdF hold proper military ranks.
Anyway, my original point is, under what budget do you list GdF?
@TheMule71 I didn't say that they are not organised militarily. I said they are not part of the armed forces, and their budget is under the Ministry of Economy and finance.
@@silusiano Let's see what they say about it: www.gdf.gov.it/it/chi-siamo/la-storia/storia-del-corpo
" Nel 1907 venne inoltre esteso al Corpo l’uso delle stellette a cinque punte, simbolo comune dell’appartenenza alle Forze Armate, e nel 1911 quale consacrazione delle alte benemerenze conseguite dal Corpo nel Risorgimento, Vittorio Emanuele III firmò il Regio Decreto n. 325, con il quale fu concesso al Corpo l’uso della Bandiera di Guerra"
Regardless what budget they're on, they are part of the Armed Forces. They even took part in peacekeeping ops for NATO.
In peace times they are detached from the Armed Forces command - which is entirely a different matter.
the point is as military police they could be used in occupy territories but i dont think that gona happen anywhere in next wars, we not gona see a ww2 style war where military police is so much needed.
One could argue the Italian navy is the world's second most powerful when you consider the outsized importance of carriers to modern navies, both China and Italy are the only countries with at least three carriers other than the US, yes technically both Italy's Trieste and China's third carrier are still undergoing sea trials but the Trieste could go into combat if WW3 started and yes the Trieste is technically an amphibious assault carrier rather than a straight carrier but that is even better for force projection. Italy's carrier fighters are a mix of old harriers and new F-35 B's which soon will replace all the harriers. It was planned for the Garibaldi carrier to be replaced by the Trieste but considering the current world state of affairs with us being on the brink of WW3, I seriously doubt that will happen. The Italian carriers mostly have superior aircraft to the Chinese carrier aircraft, especially considering the Chinese aircraft engines are so weak they cannot take off with a full load of fuel and weapons from a carrier, in addition the Italian ships engines are faster and they are more agile not to mention more reliable such as not sinking in dock or smoking like they are on fire like Chinese ships, lol. For all these reasons I mentioned the Italian navy is better able to project power around the world than the Chinese navy so could be argued to be more powerful.
The Italian navy is far more powerful than most give it credit for, which is one of the reasons I made the video.
KFOR would be f-cked without Italian army
I am Italian and proud to belong to the Nation that inherited the might, the wisdom, the constructive will of the Roman Empire. Roman Empire which is the cradle of our Great Western Civilizstion. Therefore, French, British, German Spanish Anerican Canadian and Australian Armed forces should support one another, become more and more united, in order to face the great danger that our Great Western Civilization is facing today: the evil alliance among russia iran north-corea and china.
Russia is not evil.God bless Russia 🇷🇺 stop con propaganda anglossasone
@@RoseBornagain north koreans and china supporting you doesnt help , but i agree that the people , russian chinese and n.koreans can be as good if not even better than us. states and wars and politics always mess it up
have you ever read a history of WW2? Italians are not the Romans
@@drno4837 romans were first conqueror of the etruscan ppl and rulers of italy they were italians as by today standards , still they prospered by letting every other religion stay and including every kind of conquered ppl /fighting for rome gave you the roman citizenship... so along the 1k+ years of roman empire many different rulers changed and many important ppl if not the most were not by today standards italian... still ... it's like saying england is not made by english or europe by europeans cause they let different culture govern them ... and moreover our italian culture inherit lots from them , probably most of any other country today, it's not all war related , expecially inheritance
I served with the Italian Army in its Western Afghanistan sector of Command (2008). We 300 american Op Phoenix, Combat Advisors were the American Army segment attached to operate in our NATO partner sector in Western Afghanistan (Camp Stone/Herat). Their Infantry and Command is made up of Career military. Yes, at one point they were a Draftee army but that was the past. Professional and well trained their units had my respect. True they do not have a Nuke sub fleet or Nuke capable expenses. They did have a larger (Warrant Officer) structure than other NATO militaries that i encountered. Skill sets were high by those that i encountered in the support/intel/signal fields. And I was impressed at their efforts to "retain" and re-enlist their manpower. And most that i encountered were on their second/third deployments as veterans. I agree with your comments on their readiness/logistics/equipment... I think the issue is their birth rate. How will they MAN the units.
People originally from other countries who now reside in Italy will likely fill the ranks, e.g., North Africans, Africans from the Sahel, sub-Saharan Africans, Albanians, etc.
The EU can field just less then 2 million armed personnel. Only China can boast of a larger (in numbers) fighting force. Individually the Countries of the EU field relatively small armies but combined they're formidable.
Fincantieri is a major global Italian shipbuilder. They build all sorts of ships, including state-of-the-art naval ships.. Italy is considered one of the best shipbuilders on the planet. This goes back many centuries.
Excellent channel. My congratulations. As, per a former Alpino (Mountain troops); I'd like to share that one of the last successful mission under UN, was the ONUMOZ in Mozambique (93'-95'). Deployed by the Alpini (in the past four brigades) included the Alpine Paratroops, currently called Ranger.
The same ignoring of Italy occurs when Health Care Systems are being compared.Italy sometimes is not even considered,even though it has one of the best Health care systems in the world.
Which is falling apart
@@helloworld5219 Do you use it?
Ya….. saw that during Covid…… old people hardly died at alll…..😂
@@falseflag545 The only really 'false' thing is a internet Troll like you who doesn't have the courage to even use his real name,because he wants to snipe behind his Tag name,but that for you is an old habit because you probably still hide between your mother's legs. There are people who can have an intelligent discussion ,but I see you are a typical Provincial American ( have to be,no one else could write such an idiot response) whose world view is as dumbed down as his nation.By the way, people of all ages die in Amerika simply because they can't afford health care or afford medicine.USA,USA,USA!!!
@@helloworld5219Well ,person so confident of their opinions they hide behind a tag name so they can snipe on the internet in complete anonanimity,or in lay terms a coward.I'll ask again .Do you use the Italian Health System?
One thing really benefitting the Italian navy in terms of cost is they don't need to account for range and power projection far from home whereas French and British navies will have to have a war fighting capability around the globe to defend their overseas territories. That's something that shouldn't be overlooked when comparing ship-to-ship.
The Cavour costed 1.5 Billion Euro, plus 74 millions to make it compatible with F-35.
So you can have like 5 Cavour for a Queen Elizabeth.
But you don't......
@@neutronalchemist3241 2.25 bn for small carrier. 4 bn for Queen Elizabeth each. NOT 5x the price.
QE has a far larger aircraft complement may be up to 4x. It displaces over twice the amount. The build cost is high but the operating costs in terms of crew are maybe similar or maybe 50% higher for much greater combat capability and labour costs are huge in the Western world. The Italian carriers are basically light carriers.
@@nath9091 On the other hand, you can have two light carriers operate in the same group, but you can't split one in two.
@@nath9091 However, QE is made to normally carry 24 F-35b, exceptionally 36. Cavour can carry 12, exceptionally 24.
An excellent analysis altogether. I have two small remarks. First, I think you seem to underestimate the capabilities of modern AIP submarines operating within Italy’s AOI, where they are arguably better than nuclear attack subs due to the smaller acoustic signature and ability to operate in shallow waters. If Italy wanted to be a player in the indo-pacific they would clearly need SSN, but do they really want to? Secondly, Centauro came out of a very specific and unique set of requirements, that is to repel an amphibious landing on the peninsula. They have the same firepower of tanks and they can be deployed quickly in overwhelming numbers, negating the armour disadvantage. These vehicles also happen to be excellent in peacekeeping/low-intensity scenarios.
A value of goods worth 200 billion euros passes through the Suez Canal for Italy every year. For Italy, the Suez Canal represents about half of the amount and a third of exports, we are talking about significant numbers, but above all a fall on everyday life. This is why the Italian navy must be present in the Mediterranean, I remind you that in October of this year Italy became the fourth largest exporter in the world, surpassing Japan and South Korea
@8:23 It's funny you should mention that they used a smaller carrier to defeat the Argentinians in the Falklands. Britain never actually gained full air superiority during the Falklands war, resulting in the loss of a few British ships to Argentine Exocet missiles. Had the British had a larger carrier like the Queen Elizabeth, they may very well have been able to gain that air superiority and prevent the loss of their warships.
Yeah, agreed. The RN was significantly closer to disaster (not necessarily _losing_ but simply a more pyrrhic victory than they ultimately achieved) than most people understand. If it wasn’t for the _Belgrano_ ,most people would probably consider the naval war lost.
With _that_ being said, the RNFAA absolutely smacked the heck out of the Argentines, and that was only with a light carrier and glorified attack aircraft. If they had a medium or heavy carrier, capable of launching Phantoms and Buccaneers… it would have been an absolute slaughter, given the quality of the FAA.
With Buccaneers, the RAF probably wouldn’t have been forced to scramble to execute Black Buck, either. (Which was largely useless, though quite impressive)
You're forgetting one thing that the British military forces have embraced to ensure a war winning capability.
Equity, diversity, and inclusivity with as few white, heterosexual males with generational links to Britain going back centuries as possible. That policy will overcome any adversary.
Having said that, and being British, I've been called a traitor for saying that the Frecce Tricolori aerobatic display team is better than the Red Arrows.
This is an excellent video, informative and very interesting and well presented. Thanks for doing it.
Ariete is probably the most reliable MBT currently in use. It lasts way longer between services than any other tank. Its not fancy but it is well suited for the job
I've read that the main problem with the Ariete simply is maintenance and readiness. But otherwise it's a decent tank, and too often overlooked.
Just a note on British Regulars the 73,000 figure does not include ~4,000 Gurkhas, a minor note which doesn’t change the arguments made but just a factor to consider.
I honestly thought it did include them. They are very, very good.
I wouldn't call those 4k a minor note... they're truly a force to be reckoned with!
The Gurkas are in sultan of Brunei.
The ones in Hong Kong came to live in UK.
Many work as bus drivers.
I work with three doing cleaning.
The Italian Navy and Air Force has top notch gear for their environment. The EW, electronic censors ( ATR ) , surveillance of the Mediterranean, the subs are cutting edge with secret gear and capabilities . Further Italy makes world leading helicopters and is one of the few F35 producers on the planet.
Italy's other police government agencies like the Coast Guard, GdF, Carabinieri etc have in parts military capabilities. These agencies are referred to as "soldiers" in Italy.
Italy appears to leave Germany in the dust when it comes to MPAs, the Israeli made EW & Control airplanes and submarines , helicopters etc.
Italy's navy is more modern than Germanys.
Italy is a peninsula locked inside the Mediterranean, the UK is an island in the atlantic, the UK also has territories oversea, Italy doesn't. This means that Italy has no use for big nuclear powered carriers and submarines, while the UK still needs them.
Good points.
UK nevah builded any nuclear carrier in his history, and since they failed H bomb, thier nuke stuffs are US "uk labeled" and thier heads "uk labeled" too, the keys are into the hands of the white house
The Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers are conveniently powered.
But italy still has them and uses them, italy still deploys troops to conflict zones
Mmmm. When were Italian troops last in sustained combat? UK was in A-stan and Iraq etc.
At the time the Queen Elizabeth was ordered, it was anticipated the British Army would have101,000 full time trained soldiers, around 10,000 in training a volunteer reserve of 30,000 and around 10, 000 ex-full time force reservists available. There were to be 10 nuclear attack subs 8 large amphibious warfare ships and around 25 frigates and destroyers. The RAF and Fleet Air Arm was to have around 350 fighter/attack aircraft and the army 66 attack helicopters. In round terms a third of that planned force has been cut.
I was in the base defense service of Comsubin so I saw what an Incursore can do and it's crazy, they are at world's top tier level.
& My humble guess, MUCH better catering than the British military. Perhaps on par with the French, but i have only came across Italian Navy Catering (on land 15:34 , in Rome), but that was excellent...
Also my guess, the Italian have developed strict defence purchasing procedures (to combat the age when they were in the hands of their suppliers,) which now give them a lot of bang for the buck. I.e. nurtured, but on a tight leach?
as a vet of the italian army, 186° folgore regiment, our catering wasnt AS great as you think, but having personally tasted what the brits and americans ate made me rethink my life decisions
As you stated the Cavour is currently in the Pacific. In addition to the eight x F35's on board they also have six x Harrier's on board.
The Queen Elizabeth class carriers in their current configuration is a compromise. They were planned to carry the F35C which is more capable in terms of payload and range. At one stage they switched to the F35B which meant the QE was changed to a ski ramp configuration which cost more money. The UK government wanted to cancel the contract for one of them, but termination clauses in the contract meant that it would have cost as much to cancel as it would to have complete the ship. There was even talk for a while of selling the Prince of Wales to India.
In hindsight three x Cavour class carriers would have been a better fit for the Royal Navy. They would have cost less and had more money to equip them with more F35B's. Right now, the UK even if all the F35B's they ordered were delivered, allowing for training, maintenance and embarking a full airwing onboard they would be hard pressed to fully equip one carrier in a surge capacity, nevermind two carriers.
bigger than British at half the cost and quarter as effective
All dust in the wind when you are set to become a minority in your own country.
Italy ordered 24 new Eurofighters to replace tranche 1 units that eill be phased out about 2029.
The WW2 stigma is just too powerful, the Italians were a strong power in WW2 as well!
Many legends about the ineffectiveness of the Italian army are due to Anglo-Saxon propaganda during the Second World War. The bad performances of the 1940s can be attributed to poor industrialization, the penetration of spies into the high command and the poor quality of the materials supplied to the army, certainly not to the military units themselves. This theory is supported by several episodes and by the fact that despite everything, Italy fought against practically the whole world until 1943 and then split in two with the north surrendering only in 1945 while the much more industrialized and prepared France resisted little more than a month.
"due to Anglo-Saxon propaganda during the Second World War" ....Are you sure this only happened during World War II and isn't still happening today?
I believe the Italian army went at the beginning with a wheeled platform for the Centauro because it was tailored for a fast response in Europe where road connections are more common. The Freccia and the Centauro II (that are born with the development of the first Centauro) are also due to the limitations of the national industries with tracked veichles. That's why when it came to a new tank and IFV the army asked directly abroad or with collaborations with local firms, because the local industry is behind the others.
Regarding the problem of the lack of founding for supporting such military, for example rumors says that of those 200 Ariete at the moment only 40-50 are combat ready.
The biggest issue with the italian armed forces is the Ariete MBT, while its electronic components are up to date, the hull is basically just an OF-40 (read as: a leopard 1 copy) with some outdated composite armor slapped on it. Even the upgrade packages for it from what i've been able to find are just an amalgamation of smaller upgrade packs that are 20 years out of date. Again, the command & control capabilities, sensors, and all of that are great, the tanks themselves tough are probably the worst NATO MBTs currently operational, from my understanding the Arietes are completely incapable of surviving any kind of modern ammunition that could be thrown at them...and even many of the outdated ones.
They were always intended to be lighter than their counterparts, because ideally they would almost never be deployed out of Italy, and our country's geography is generally inimical to heavy vehicles, but in my opinion the Centauro has the same capabilities of the Ariete as things stand, and it's cheaper. By and large the armor of the Ariete is useless, people will be quick to point out that tanks are not supposed to be hit in the first place on the modern battlefield, but again, at that point we might as well do away with the Ariete and just get more vehicles like the Centauro 2.
I found it very funny that you pronounce Freccia (arrow) wrong, but in such a specific way that you end up saying frecchia (the "kia" pronunciation is written as "chia" in italian), that is in fact another italian word (a surname), so you're just 50% off. All in all, still one of the best iterations of an english speaker attempting to say italian words without a knowledge of the lenguage i've ever heard, props to you.
Thank you for this video! I know a thing or two about the German military, but my grandfather was an officer in the post WW2 Italian Army, a Bersaglieri. The Italian Army has always fascinated me and this video showcases great why they shouldn't be overlooked, yet i feel like that happens too often. As if theirs some kind of arrogance from the other countries.
They have some very interesting recruiting strategies, which the Germans could also learn from. Having a region like the Italian South which isnt on par with the north to put it moddest, surely helps with driving people to the Army. The Germans have a similar (but far from the italian situation) phenomenon with their differences between East and West Germany.
Also the fact that they have two independent "amphibious" Units, the San Marco Brigade and the Lagunari from Venice is surely unique iam not aware of any other army that has an equivalent of a unit like the lagunari or is anyone aware of one?
Last but not least can someone recommend any literature on the modern italian armed forces? Iam afraid their isnt any in english or german while iam learning italian atm its still a far cry from being good enough for this subject...
I wish I could recommend some reading. I haven't found anything.
Vi scrivo in italiano lascando a Translate tradurre concetti troppo tecnici per il mio inglese (mi spiace). Quello che va valutano nell'ottica sei sommergibili nucleari che leggevo nei commenti, è la visione geopolitica dell'Italia. All'italia "basta" il controllo del mediterraneo, quello che i romani chiamano "mare nostrum". L'Italia non ha ambizioni oceaniche, gli basta controllare il mare che controlla da 2500 anni. Per controllare il mediterraneo basta posizionarsi nei tre stretti con missili predisposti alla caccia della nave. i sommergibili nucleari servono per proiettare la forza negli oceani. L'Italia non deve proiettare niente, le basta difendere il Mediterraneo in cui è immersa.
Per difendere il mediterraneo devi poterti saper proiettare almeno nel mediterraneo e se vuoi mantenere aperte le linee di comunicazione e non ridurti a controllare uno stagno devi poter controllare anche le zone attigue agli stretti di ingresso, quindi golfo di Guinea e Oceano Indiano.
Magari potessimo veramente fare quello che dobbiamo x almeno far valere i confini italiani/europei…scusate se salto di palo in frasca ma è paradossale avere certe possibilità e non poterle utilizzare neanche in difensiva x motivi politici
Ma da quale sogno/sostanza ti sei risvegliato per scrivere una roba del genere? Da quando controlliamo il mediterraneo 🤣? Considerando poi che l'Italia esiste da 163 anni, i 2500 sono ancora più fantasy.
Visto che poi lo abbiamo sempre fatto mi chiedo perché abbiamo avuto necessità 84 anni fa di entrare in guerra contro chi ne controllava gli accessi e le rotte (e che quindi per estensione dominava questo mare).
Mi sa che ci confondi con gli USA.
@@mattc9875 basta pensare a quello che è successo in Libia
Interesting that you mention personnel costs - that is something that both the Italian intelligence services and the Defense Ministry have pointed out to be the major handicap of the military
The B1 Centauro-1 was an actual wheeled tank destroyer, conceived during the eighties to contrast the soviet tanks in the Italian scenario and because it proved to be pretty useful also in the pace keeping missions, it was developed into the B2 Centauro-2, in order to make it even more effective in this new scenario. So yes, we can say it was created to satisfy a very specific requirement.
Good job I enjoyed your program
Perhaps the long standing political instability of Italy was an indirect reason for disregarding their potential military contribution. Would they stay the course in any conflict might have been an issue for 'strategic think tanks'? Italian Maritime Task Group plus an Air Force element was recently in Australia, very impressive display of global reach.
Firstly, thank you Sir for your video! I am a (very) new subscriber to your channel and I must say that I am happily surprised by the content which you create. It's definitely at the level of Perun. Yet, I would argue that one needs to already have a fairly good understanding of military matters in order to properly follow you. And that's a plus in my book!
Secondly, I would say that carrier-wise (outside of the US Navy), it is more about the fleet accompanying the carrier (both above and underwater) than the actual carrier size itself.
Thirdly, I will have to look into your past videos if you have already done content about Poland's Army and it's current (prime) position within Europe's strengths & requirements in terms of sheer Continental mass vis-a-vis the war in Ukraine (as opposed to FR for example).
BTW, the SAMP/T Air Defense system is a Franco-Italian joint initiative with (some) differences between both options. But you already know that. Some would argue that both are better than the Patriot because of their 360 coverage. But I am no expert.
Finally, one thing which "you forgot" about the Italian Infantry:...
With their Beretta AX160, they surely have the nicest "Designer" assault rifle of them all! :-)
Thanks again, your channel is serious and on-point.
You really can't compare the UK & Italian carriers and subs, they are for different roles. Also there is a chunk of RN expenditure on the nuclear deterrent and protecting it, that the Italians do not have at all. That fundamentally changes their ability to independently face down a nuclear threat from Russia. That is crucial for the defense of Europe in the event of a Manchurian candidate in the White House. The UK is concerned with long range expeditionary power, and therefore the logistic tail for supporting it, but not in having to defend against a ground invasion, hence reduced heavy armored units. Italy's focus on the Med and neighboring zones is absolutely correct for their needs. That said, (1) all NATO forces are severely understaffed, & under funded given the current threat, (2) everyone is severely behind with drones, affordable long range large volume cruise missiles, long range SAMS and counter-drone ShorRAD.
Anche noi abbiamo una marea di deterrenza nucleare da caricare sugli F35. Si trovano tutte nella base militare di Ghedi e rappresenta il secondo deposito nucleare più grosso a livello continentale europeo. L'unica differenza é che l'interruttore (i codici) non li teniamo noi italiani ma li tiene tutti lo zio Sam. 😂😂😂 Così noi bambini italiani non facciamo marachelle... 😉
I've never had the pleasure of working with the Italian military, but Italy has always produced amazing works of art, and that artisty shows through in their design and manufacture of very fine implements of battle.
Re Alpine regiments. British military indeed comprises elite alpine troops. Whilst the British Army does not have mountain troops, Royal Marine Commandos, all receive mountain warfare training in Scotland and in Norway, and the corps comprises a mountain leadership fighting unit based in Norway.
In reality, Alpini brigade aren't no more focused only in the traditional Alpine high-peak or Norway-kind of artic/extreme warfare they had untill the 90s
Those moved to a more generic "light brigade" role, with an emphasis on rough terrains where more 'on foot' than 'on wheel' - they worked well both in roadless Bosnia/Kosovo hills, and in relatively more mobile Afghanistan operations.
Mountain warfare is still there, there still is the Alpine School, but Alpini are a now Swiss-knife kind of brigades.
@@ulissedazante5748 Yes, apart from the Alpini paratroopers "Monte Cervino", which are special forces, the Alpini are a specialised unit. Specialised ≠ special forces. Alpini fight conventional operations.
@@gs7828 yep, the Monte Cervino upgraded into a "ranger" special operation force.
The two Alpini Brigades are conventional light infantry with a twist.
most units in italy get some grasp of alpine fighting in training
Hi Michael. Thanks for the video. Quick Italian pronunciation tip: Freccia = Freccha; Celso = Chelso
The C sound is soft with e and i vowels, and ch is the hard sound (eg. k)
The RN has a displacement of over 800K ton while the Italian over 275K that's a big difference. Trident eats up 6% of UK budget too
You've taken your numbers from where exactely?
@@solinvictus1234 where do you think
@@andce2826 You tell me that, cause from this answer i'm starting to say that is a BS
@@solinvictus1234 have you researched yourself?
Britain is replacing Trident with The Dreadnought class submarines.
I wanted to respond, but then I realized the British, French and Italians are allies. We are on the same boat.
@@xmaniac99 In the same boat. On the same page and work well together.
@@JohnBooth-bl3rh well...French took Libia from us with US help
@@MotoGP_Talk Ha ha who killed Kaddafi ?
The Cavour official cost was 1,35 billions of 2005 money.
L Italia ha una storia millenaria che nessun popolo al mondo ha..a partire dal grande impero romano che durò circa 900 anni a finire con le rupubbliche marinare e serenissima Venezia ..dobbiamo essere orgogliosi della nostra storia millenaria gloriosa .
pochi popoli, non nessuno... cerchiamo di non cadere nello sciovinismo come fanno altri
As an addendum, in Italy, you are only considered a "veteran" if you served in war zone. However, if you are a "veteran" you command a quiet respect that you do not see in the USA. When I visited my family in Italy my young nephews developed a bad case of hero worship to the point that I finally told them that I simply did my job and there was nothing particularly "heroic" about it. Although I must confess that it was a bit flattering.
"Veterans" are not seen as heroes in Italy, they are seen as equals as any other job
The Spanish Army also has the Centauro II. They are used for cavalry work.
And Spain has the same GDP as Russia… so maybe worth a comparison by @michealshurkin613 would be worth while
Spanish Army has the Centauro I 105mm as most of the Italian Army.
The first Centauro II 120mm are just being issued here in Italy, it will take years to fully replace the old ones.
Brasil just bought some Centauro II 120mm, too: the plan is producing under license there, but the first italian-made were just arrived.
The Italians build great frigates…the US Navy should buy the design or just built in Italy.
I though they did?
Actually USN will buy FREMM
Thank you for an excellent analysis of Italy's considerable military capabilities.
Les Griffiths
Sono d'accordo sul fatto che all'italia manca ancora di flotta di droni da combattimento ma è una necessità molto recente e ci stiamo attrezzando in casa per provvedere.
Italians won a world war, Germany lost both! Do we want to talk about modern times? The United States has not won a war since 1946, it has lost them all, creating only local problems and destabilizations who have filled Italy with illegal immigrants (like in North Africa a few years ago during the Obama administration together with the English and French), wars lost even against small armies like the Vietnamese. Do we no longer remember the images that came from Afghanistan, with Americans running away like rats?
here no one can afford to give lessons in superiority given the poor results of all Western nations in terms of wars.
That Is a biased view the unrest in the Mediterranean Sea Is present since the fifties and sixties for innner political or religious reasons
It wasn't a lack of military capabilities. It was they didn't have a policy for the post war regime.
Fun fact:
The US Navy managed to ... "improve" the italian FREMM frigate to such an extent that the cost has literally "exploded" and has also delayed the project's schedule.
US Congress fault. The starting project of NAVSEA was to modify only the mast and the weapon systems, it was de facto almost a "ready to go" building ship, remaining the 85% similar to a FREMM.
But the US Congress said "nope, we want to built it 100 American" so the NAVSEA had to reproject the whole thing with a similarity with a FREMM of only 15%. Doing that the US Navy engineers did some huge projectual mistakes, discovered by the Shipbuilder (the Italian Fincantieri) that sended back the projects to NAVSEA to make them be reprojected.
That's why the costs have exploded and the timeline becomes abysmal. US Political games and US Navy engineers incompetence.
I've been following the evolution of the Italian armed forces for some time now, and I must say, with some surprise, that this government is adopting an international posture that hasn’t been seen in years. They are methodically working on the future with the awareness that, unfortunately, geopolitical scenarios are deteriorating, and we are entering a phase where a clash of cultures appears on the horizon, not only on the economic front but eventually, certainly, on the military front (and Ukraine teaches us a lot about this).
What I find particularly interesting is that public opinion, typically not inclined to deep analysis and always ready to react emotionally rather than rationally, does not seem to be interested in this phase of profound rearmament. I think it’s a great shame because, setting aside the pacifism that each of us has to some extent, pragmatism is needed for a mature people who are aware of their strength, who know how to manage it, and who take pride in being at the forefront alongside the best. This feeling typically does not align with the dynamics of military policies. Unfortunately, the “woke” mentality has gained a foothold in many other Western countries, not just in the United States. Thanks for This very interesting analysis.
yep, the woke virus is THE threat all west countries are facing, and its heavily founded. see how much changed in the last 20 years and imagine what will happen in the next 20 at this rate :)
Thank you for a well balanced overview that is based on realities that a particular nation ‘s military goals are
The problem with the army in Italy is that most people have this passive pacifist mindset that really limits what a government can do to improve our military capabilities. No party will ever promise to spend more money on the defence budget because they know that they'll be massacred by the opposition, and even their own voters won't care or defend them
Italy lost WW2. Its constitution forbids much of the “global ambitions” available to France or UK. Defence (on the Med), or UN missions are ok, for else, it would not be approved by Parliament.
As for nuclear, as signatory of non proliferation treaties, there are some 80 tactical nuclear bombs lent by USA in its arsenal to stop an eventual (Soviet now Russia) land invasion which is the reason Tornado jets are still in use
@@paolopuppoli8360 Prima ci togliamo dai coglioni quelle bombe e meglio sarà. Dammi retta.
@@ezioauditore1522Se tu pensi che la Russia o la Cina non ti attacchino nuclearmente, solo perchè non possiedi bombe nucleari sul tuo suolo, ti sbagli di grosso.
Meglio averle e far venire il dubbio che si possa rispondere, che non averne e dare certezza agli avversari che se lanciano, loro ne usciranno indenni.
@@paolopuppoli8360 Tornado and F35 now