as a born again Irish Presbyterian I have been struggling with the question of baptism. the holy spirit speaks of what scripture says,I feel I should get baptized not need to be .my salvation is secure come what may but the call of water baptism is so strong I am going to take the plunge. thank you Jeff for your gracious teaching god bless.
I was there visiting my brother in Tempe. We decided to attend Apologia Church but didn't anticipate the 3 hour service haha. I am grateful though that this was given a fair, balanced, and Biblical representation.
Pastor Jeff is out there doing so much good for the Kingdom of God - my prayers are with him and the Apologia Church, I do however believe that we are Baptized into Christ - where in is all salvation, and spiritual blessings. Pastor Jeff likes Romans, as do I - Romans 6 is very clear - "Or do you not know that as many of you as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death: Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." verse 3-4 also Galatians 3:26-27, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." To clarify, I am not saying that simply getting immersed in water has any power to save - it is Jesus Christ - His sacrifice, the mercy and grace of an all powerful God who saves. I am saying that an all powerful, sovereign God has all authority on Earth and in Heaven and commands us to be baptized as a way to be buried with Christ in baptism, to die to self, to be reborn as a Christian - and added to the church - we are baptized into Christ - this does not negate the essential elements of Faith, confession, repentance and walking in the Spirit - all of these go hand in hand together and are not possible to do anything without grace, mercy and the loving sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. How do some say that baptism is somehow a work that earns salvation and proves your in like flinn - no need to worry - if you're dunked you're saved move on - but not have the very same concern about someone who says the sinner's prayer ( no where found in scripture by the way - give the verse if you can) or that confession that Jesus is Lord, or belief or Faith are any less works or motions that could be gone through without any real salvation occurring. It is the symbolic way of being added to the church and placed in Jesus Christ. Bottom line - by your fruits you will know them - it is a process of growth, of submitting in obedience and being filled with the Holy Spirit, which gives you the power to overcome temptation and to produce the fruit of the Spirit in your life and to become transformed and not conformed to this world by the renewing of your mind. Act 2:38 - they were pricked in their hearts - they realized they had murdered the long awaited Messiah and asked Peter - What must we do? The answer, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins - 3,000 were obedient in baptism and were added to the church. Read Acts - what is the example in scripture over and over, - The Phillipian Jailer, Paul, Cornelius and his entire Household ( I do not think this means babies and kids too young to repent, confess and understand the Gospel), Lydia, Simon the Sorcerer, the Ethiopian Eunuch, Acts Chp 18: 8 - Crispus and many of the Corinthians believe and were baptized. Apollos who had only been baptized in John's baptism - when they taught him more accurately, Paul baptized him in the name of Jesus Christ, Paul laid hands on him and he received the Holy Spirit. There is so much more - I don't believe baptism is some magic ceremony that is a work which causes us to be saved - I just believe it is the commanded process to access the saving Grace of God and be added to the church and placed into Christ.
There is the flip side where young one's that don't truly understand sin or repentance, saying what they think you want to hear for attention, and getting sealed as hypocrites not truly converted (usually Arminian Baptist). I say this because I was one, and am surrounded by them frequently in today's society, most self proclaimed Christians I meet in the world today would appear to be false converts who walked an aisle at some point.
Cont. Read Wilson, then Gertsner, then studied the word comparing both, by the way I am in a reformed Baptist Church, like most I believed what I was told doing a light study of the subject. Then I met a good friend who declared he was now a paedo baptist, that caused me to search even harder. After much soul searching n study and some discourse with my pastors I have come to see the revelation of the matter and it is wonderful. The final nail in the old credo coffin was what said to the jailer, believe and be saved n your household, immediately he n all his family(household) were baptized. If the HSpt had inserted the word adults in the command, the argument would be over n credoes would be right, but He did not and there's many other places we see the same command, the whole house. As you stated the baptists don't include their kids. We do, believing the word to give the sign before faith comes in the hopes that it will, same was in the old, first the sign and then faith, not coming to all but all the Lord calls. Many young people stay in the Presby church because they are not excluded but included and thrive and become a great blessing. How sweet to baptize our babies into the covenant in the hope that will receive faith to believe, as many do at a very young age and partake of the sacrement. The Presby witness over the ages is astounding as our freedoms attest to their standing strong against tyranny and injustice along with their whole families. There are a few good churches that emulate them but most are shut in with their pietism and disregard for the culture. I commend you for pointing out the errors found in your church and the good work you all do in engaging the culture and exposing error, and preaching all of the word. Blessings as we travel this hiway of holiness together to spread the kingdom.
5 examples of household baptism, in 4 of those households there was either repentance believing or hearing the word and rejoicing believing in God, recieving the Holy Spirit. Pretty sure that shows the households were believers !
I just listened to the very end of Pastor Jeff's sermon - where he asked for all of those who had repented and believed but not been Baptized yet to come up after and be baptized - I think that is wonderful. I guess I am struggling with the point of where do our differences lie? I think it is the immediate urgency of Baptism - the pattern I see in scripture is that when people were taught the Gospel, they had Faith, they believed, they repented and confessed Jesus as their Lord and Savior - it then followed that they got baptized, often immediately - but not always as with Paul - it was several days later, but it was a part of that process and pattern. I just believe when preaching the Gospel - the instruction should be the same as Peter's on the Day of Pentecost - I don't think we should be instructing people to say the sinner's prayer and just get Baptized when it's convenient, whenever - whether it be days, months or years later. It is the way God places you in Christ and in His church - a sovereign God decided that. Does that mean a sovereign God cannot make exceptions, or change the order, as in the thief on the cross or as in with Cornelius when the Holy Spirit came on he and his household prior to baptism? No, of course not - God is God and He will always do what is correct and right in the particular circumstance, but it followed that people got baptized as part of that process and Paul was asked, why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord. It naturally followed that upon hearing and accepting the Gospel they were baptized and it was to wash away their sins. This should be the instruction to people as we are preaching and evangelizing to them - we should follow the scriptural pattern - that is all I believe. I just don't see leaving that out until much later as an afterthought - oh, by the way come on up and get wet. It just was not done that way in Acts.
How do you know the thief on the cross was not baptized? Also Christ had not died yet at that point so the baptism was not yet necessary just like those that lived before Christ.
@@colepriceguitar1153 It seems like enthusiasm and joy, a desire to obey upon their belief and faith. Works don't save but saving faith bears fruit and is shown by obedience. Abraham's faith was accounted to him as righteousness but he believed God trusted God and packed up and left his home in obedience. He was not perfect, it was a process of growth and sanctification.
@@billslim9267 He could have been baptized with John's baptism. Don't know. Maybe there's a baptismal just outside Heaven's gate??? Kidding 😄. I see both sides on the Baptism issue. Sad it leads to division among Christians. I see the danger of putting too much emphasis on a checklist of things a person does to be saved rather than on what Christ did - that and only that saves. Saving faith will result in love for Christ, really making him Lord by dying to self, taking up your cross and following - why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say? If you love me you'll keep my commandments. But also you can do a lot of good works in His name but get to the thrown on judgement day and be told by Jesus that He never knew you - you can give all your wealth to the poor and your body to be burned but without love it profits you nothing. If you refuse to forgive others, you won't be forgiven by your father.
But who is it doing the work? It's God, of course, doing the real work. The washing with water is just the physical analogy of the metaphysical reality.
For the record I disagree with Strawbridge here and think the most consistent way would be to recognize we no longer stone the unbelieving spouse. That I would say is a distinction that needs to be made. I would also say, the questions we bring up, "How can you pray with them, vs for them" is a valid question.
When the Baptist and the Presbyterian debate the issue of baptism and they fail to discuss the baptism of the Holy Spirit found in Luke 3:16, and John chapter 3, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, they are both clueless to the circumcision of heart, found in Romans 2:28-29. The most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The power to overcome sin is in the Spirit, instead of in the water. Watch the RUclips video "New Covenant Baptism 3:16".
@@SpotterVideo how are they clueless? as far as i know, they are speaking about water baptism here, they dont deny the fact that the holy spirit has given us life, thats just not what they are speaking about in these messages.
@@taylordutton4347 Do they normally see water when they read the word "baptism" in the New Testament, before they ever consider the possibility that the passage could be talking about the baptism of the Spirit? Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Yo man you're so cool love your T-shirt and your beard and your necklace and your tattoos and your fum ring Great word man keep up the good work God bless
candice beebe The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was not in effect yet because Jesus was still alive. Jesus saved the thief before he died. Also, we do not know if the thief had been baptized or not, the Bible doesn’t say.
Right Here Where is the scripture that says that? Baptism is not an outward sign of an inward change, it is a commandment from Jesus. Mark 16:16 “whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”
@@cnorris5571 Can someone receive the Holy Spirit without being baptized first? The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. [Therefore] ROMANS 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in[a] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: ROMANS 4:The Promise Realized Through Faith 13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring-not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, [ why would Paul write this if baptism is salvific?] 1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
I’ve just recently discovered your work on RUclips and have been enjoying your videos. Thank you! I’m a Christian who is really getting hungry to study Gods word and am looking for a recommendation on a really good study Bible. Do you have one you would recommend? I’ve been around a Bible my whole life but want to understand it deeper.
Why is Baptism a difficult idea? Believing in God, and in Jesus as the Saviour is a pre-requisite. Baptism can be conducted by any believer, in any body of water. Both are required for salvation. Pretty straight forward to me...
If they are both required for salvation, then the thief on the cross did not enter paradise as he was not able to follow with water baptism. At least if we go by your statement.
Jacob Martinez this is a ridiculous argument. Why do we as Christians spin out wheels on such things? The thief was clearly an exception to the rule, given by Jesus himself. The word is clear for everyone else. Salvation/redemption requires belief, repentance, and baptism. What exactly is your argument to this? That baptism isn’t really required?
@@mopar7682 we Christians just as you should, spin out on things when God lowers his standards and especially to things that are required in your view. That's the real scary part.
Ha that's what I thought I heard a couple times too. And think Jeff meant "8 day/month old baby" not an "8 year old baby". ;) Still a good start to the baptism discussion!
I have a question: if I were a Mormon who is perhaps changing over to an evangelical perspective, would I have to be rebaptized? This is a really sensitive issue for me and I can't say I've totally worked out my beliefs. But...hypothetically...would it be necessary? It's scary for me because I don't want to feel like I'm in a double bind. (and I know this seems silly to people who don't understand Mormonism but it's very real to me)
Jeff, I so appreciate your emphasis on "repentance, faith, then baptism." Here's my issue with your teaching. You say that baptism SYMBOLIZES our UNION with his (Christ's) death. Paul in Romans 6:3-4 (NLT2) 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives. Jeff, where does Paul say that it was SYMBOLIC??? Paul is talking about a spiritual reality. Here's how it would read according to your preaching in this message: Romans 6:3-4 (NLT2) 3 Or have you forgotten that when we were (symbolically) joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we (symbolically) joined him in his death? 4 For we (symbolically) died and were (symbolically) buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may (symbolically) live new lives. --It doesn't work. It totally emasculates Paul's teaching. Paul taught that our being baptized INTO Christ Jesus gave us a new identity in Christ and buried our old man, our old nature, and raised us to newness in Christ. Not symbolically, but as a REALITY. For years I was raised with the baptismal incantation before each baptism, "Baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ." But Paul doesn't say that. We have INJECTED "symbolic" and totally watered-down or destroyed what Paul was saying in Romans 6.
So did you literally die when you went under the water? Did you literally raise from the dead? No. It's absolutely symbolic. If Baptism saves, Salvation comes by our works. It's heresy to teach that Water Baptism saves. If someone trusts in Water Baptism and not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the Washing of Regeneration, they are deceived.
Matheus Lopes ofc. Jesus lived the live we are supposed to live. So he wants us to get baptised to turn from sinn. But it's not necessary to be saved. Still Jesus wants us to be baptized. It's a promise to God after we came to faith. To turn from sinn.
Dear Brother Jeff. I have listened to all of your sermons, and watched all of your videos. You have a great and powerful gift. I agree with most of your preachings. And agree with most of your views. However on this subject ,, we disagree. My view is of this. It’s kinda like the bases on a baseball field. There is more than on base that we have to touch. When baptized,, the first base is death,, second base is burial,, and third base is our resurrection. These are all acts that we commit. Then as we are adopted has a child we are placed in his stewardship. Then when he sees that we are truly dedicated to following Christ our savior, he places with in us something that we are not capable of doing outside Christ,, which is the Holy Spirit,, which is when we leave third base and make it to home plate . I love you and wish to meet you some day,, but I also wish you could change your view on this matter,, as you are going to be held to a higher measuring standard than the average since you are a teacher and minister . And this,, if Jesus felt it necessary to be baptized by immersion,, why not everyone who follows. Just my view. Much love brother..
The steps to accept the Gospel as revealed in Acts 2:37-38 are not as Jeff said - 1. repentance, 2. faith 3. baptism. After the 3000 people were "pricked in their hearts" they had 1. faith enough to 2. repent, then were 3. baptized and 4. received the Holy Ghost. The last one is done by the laying on of hands by one with the correct priesthood authority to do so (Acts 8:18). But I like the discussion and I look forward to part 2.
Robert Starling Hi Robert- I'm not sure that your assertion about the necessity of the laying on of hands for receiving the Holy Spirit is really accurate. It is certainly true that this was SOMETIMES the case (eg you also see Paul doing this in Acts 19:6). However, nobody laid hands on the disciples in the upper room in Acts 2 and there is no mention of the laying on of hands for the 3000 saved on the day of pentecost. If you look at Acts 10:44, there is no mention of the laying on of hands when the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles as Peter preached. Paul also clearly teaches that it is the preaching of the word and hearing with faith that leads to the filling of the Holy Spirit (eg Galatians 3:2-5). I believe the laying on of hands can be PART of this, but it is by no means THE means
Hi Jeff, Catholics point to 1 Peter 3:21 as justification for water baptism as being necessary for salvation. Can you help me understand this verse in reference to the protestant doctrine of baptism. Thanks for your help with this.
Douglas Mckinney just read it for yourself. Jeff doesn’t need to explain it to you. Read the book of peter in context. Read acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21, John 3:5, Romans 6:4, Mark 16:16. There is no example in scripture where baptism is not apart of the steps necessary in salvation. This is in no way taking away from what Christ did on the cross. It’s like your wife making you a huge meal. You didn’t make it...at all...but you have grab your fork and eat it. Christ isn’t going to force himself on you. Baptist believe you have to confess with your mouth and have faith to be saved. These are two acts...the same as baptism. Baptism is absolutely apart of salvation. You don’t get baptized to earn your baptism, you get baptized to partake in the gift of Christ.
we do not need to determine what is most consistent! that would be to tell the word of God what it can and connot mean, according to are reason! we need to determine what the plane reading of the text is in its context!!!!! i am buried and raised with Christ, in baptism!!!! its a promise!!! HAAAA!!!! it is Jesus' atoning work applied to me, by Gods word!!! i am saved because i am baptised! Not apart from faith! it is just the word of God preached!! we are all saved by the preaching of Gods word?? no?? Because the preaching of Gods word, and the Holy Spirit, is what creates repentants and faith, in Jesus' work! the text dose not say symbolic!!! you have added to Gods word! SAD FACE! you have made Gods promises a Law! this is so sad!! as a Lutheran i find this distressing! ;) i know i am saved not because i have come to some understanding or I had a feeling or anything to do with me! i know i am saved because God told me i am, by his word, in Baptism. Not Apart from faith!!!! read the bible and dont insert represents and symbolises everywhere!! :) thank you for your videos i have found them very useful! :) God bless you in Jesus Christ are wonderfully merciful savior.
1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness THE DEATH OF THE SINNER 2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin. When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
Water baptism doesn't save you. Just as the Lord's supper doesn't save you , both are ordinances. You must be born again to be saved. Not born once, and baptized. Born again , regenerated , given a new heart. A heart transplant must occur to be saved and you cannot perform this transplant on yourself and your pastor cannot either. The Lord Jesus Christ must. John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
@@rickpettey8822 but the way you are saying it have it in a reverse order. Yours: baptism leads to having Jesus then leads to being saved then leads to faith. What it should be: repentance leads to putting faith in Jesus, having faith in Christ is being saved, having faith bring forth baptism as like a final stamp of commitment.
Brian Paxton Baptism by itself does not save you, but it is commanded by God himself(Mat 28:19), and the apostles(Acts 2:38) and you have examples in Acts where people were baptized. If something is commanded and not followed is that not disobedience? Baptism plays a part in our salvation. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Brian Paxton I love you and want you to know truth. 1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness THE DEATH OF THE SINNER 2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin. When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
Hey i love all u guys at apologia but i think u miss-represented greg in that debate :/ i think in that debate it was a joke when he said yes baptizing the unbelieving spouses. I truly thank you guys for this message though I've recently been having some in the middle thoughts on the baptising topic listening to crosspolitic and other podcasts/ fb posts. This was great timing!
Asher Donald Thank you for the love. it wasn't misrepresentation. That's his position. We believe he is being consistent with his Presbyterian commitments on that point. He really said it. He really meant it.
Asher 2:23:30 for reference where the question gets asked. I could see how someone would think from his initial response that he is joking. but as he continues he makes clear that he is seriously willing to baptize unbelieving spouses. Minute mark 2:25 is pretty clear.
Gal. 5:1-15 said nothing about baptism. The passages were talking about conforming Gentiles to Jewish law which Paul warns against. The Bible says be baptized for the forgiveness of sin to receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:43
I respect Pastor Jeff immensely but on this he doesn’t realize some basic errors in his thinking... is Romans 6 addressing water baptism or baptism by the Holy Spirit? Does he think the New Testament corrects the Old Testament and thus we should use the NT to interpret the Old? Does he actually think that asking about singing the “Jesus Loves Me...” song was an emotion play instead of a question that strikes at the heart of his view of ecclesiology? I could go on...
Why is it that baptists can believe that God uses one mean to distribute His grace, that is they can believe God's Word when He says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ, but they cannot believe God's Word when He says he will also use means to bring people (without precluding infants and small children, or those with limited or not cognitive ability) into His kingdom by giving them the gift of faith in Christ through baptism? Was it Naaman's obedience that made him clean when he dipped himself into the Jordan 7 times to be cleaned of leprosy, or was it the promise of God that was connected to the instruction He gave to Naaman? Was it just the mud that Jesus used on the eyes blind man that brought him sight, or was it the power of God connected to the physical act? God chose to use that particular means to deliver his promise to cleanse Naaman. God chose to use mud on the eyes of that particular blind man. In the same way, God has declared that he has universally chosen to use baptism to distribute faith in Christ, cleanse from sin and give the Holy Spirit -- connecting His perfect life, sacrificial death, and life giving resurrection to a physical act. God instructed Moses to hold up his staff and he parted the Red Sea. Did the obedience of Moses part the sea? Did the raised staff have power to part the sea? No, God chose to demonstrate his power, his salvation to the Jews through connecting the parting of the Red Sea to the act of Moses raised staff. Why is it so hard to believe His word when He compares that parting of the sea to what happens to us in baptism, " As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 10:1-2, “For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.” The New Testament antitypes of God’s cloud of presence and the waters of the Red Sea appear when we are “born of water and the Spirit”. Indeed, there are many ways in which the Israelite crossing of the Red Sea and our baptism are similar. Now, Strawbridge proclaiming that he would baptize an unbelieving spouse was being terribly inconsistent, as certainly a a sinful older child or adult may reject the grace wrought by baptism, and it would be pointless to pretend that it would be efficacious knowing before going into it that the unbeliever was rejecting the promises given in baptism, before, during, and after. But truly, faith received by baptizing a helpless, unresisting infant is the ultimate picture of our inability to make one move toward God and His forgiveness, but that faith is truly granted 100% by God as a gift, and received as the "dead men" that scripture tells us we are before we receive Christ. What finally brought me from the baptist view to the Lutheran, biblical view was the inability of the baptists to account for why they believe their children are covered by God's grace when, according to scripture, they are conceived as sinful enemies of God, condemned to hell apart from the covering of Christs blood shed for sinners. There is nowhere in Scripture, OT or NT, where God indicates that the children of His people are to be kept in limbo outside of His kingdom, but he has included them in his kingdom whether it was through the means of circumcision, or the gift of baptism, Acts, "38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” This was not a future promise for "you and your children" but a present promise, a here and now promise that Paul gave! Infants are condemned to hell without the covering of Christ, yet so many Christians behave as if they have a temporary pass until some indefinite, subjective time when their PARENTS, not God, has decided that the child has an adult enough understanding of the Gospel, so therefore they are deemed believers. Baptists are inconsistent in their theology in that they say their children are not in the kingdom until they can come to understand the gospel by reason, yet they treat them as Christians by teaching God's Word and expecting that they believe it and follow it, even refer to themselves as a Christian family or the child themself as a Christian, and consistently have their children pray (God forbid we ask the unbelieving pagans to pray -- prayer is the language of faith!) yet at the same time hold them at arms length from the kingdom until they can make a profession that is satisfactory to them. I have watched this consistent inconsistancy in my many beloved baptist friends; a two year old consistently being asked to quote Bible verses and to pray aloud for the family, yet baptism being held off for another decade. This is so common, yet it is so contradictory and so cruel and confusing for the children -- the logical conclusion to this theology IS for the baptist parent to look for "evidence" of faith from the child, before they would baptize them. Even pastor Jeff IS preaching this same thing, while he preaches against it, it's just a softer version of it (around the 40 min. or so mark) . This is not the way God has treated the children of His people in the scriptures, and we should therefore heed His word to not forbid the little ones to come to Him, but bring them to Him, to make disciples of them by the means He has provided for them (baptism), and to continue to disciple them through teaching His Word as they grow, Matthew 28:18-20 English Standard Version (ESV), "18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” -- God's Word is efficacious; it does what it promises. Go back and reread all of the baptism verses in the Bible and believe them. God has given us an objective, tangible place to receive all of the benefits of Christ, in the sacrament of baptism, so we do not have to live in constant unsureness of checking our good works to assess our assurance of salvation, but look to what Christ has promised us in our baptism. Christ is in baptism, and Christi is the object of our faith.
give me 1 Christian that didn't teach baptismal regeneration the first 500 years let's say? all the Ante-nicaean fathers who speak on baptism say it's the seal, it's when we are regenerated, justified, sanctified, added to the church, put on christ, are cleansed from sins, is what Jesus was talking about in John 3 being born of water and spirit, is a command etc... only the heretics taught that we didn't have to be baptized to be saved and the Christians taught that if you deny baptism you deny the whole faith.
look at the first 500 years of Christianity, they all say John 3 is water baptism. Cornelius being filled with the spirit was a sign for the Jewish brothers brothers concerning the gentiles. water and spirit bud, must have both. OT type. red sea and the cloud. water and spirit. not talking about being naturally born by your mother, it's talking about how we are born in the new covenant. rom.6... newness of life is after death in baptism. 1 pet. 3:21.. saved by water... the new creation was after the old world died.
nice. lol. Well let's see, I can see the type, I can see the priest do it in the OT, Naaman etc... I see John baptism but his wasn't about regeneration, if Jesus commanded it before he died then John 3 could remain water baptism and the thief either had a baptism in blood like the fathers mention converted martyrs getting or maybe the thief rose when Jesus rose and those ot saints were baptized (guessing) or since he literally died and was buried with christ that could be his baptism or Jesus isn't a strictly just or legalistic and had the authority to show him mercy without it. so in the normative sense we should get baptized. For Christ also said, "Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Isaiah the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean…" Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.183 Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.183
I believe you must repent, confess and be baptized by faith to be saved. if you don't repent, don't have faith and get baptized then you just got wet. Those things prepare us for the spirit who regenerates us by his grace and mercy.
what about 1 Peter 3:21? And why was Paul baptized? Jesus didn't mention circumcision in the great commission so to call it a work like baptism is misleading. Is repentance a work?
Baptism doesn't save you? "Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 3:21
Cody Skinner We appreciate that you quoted the entirety of the verse, which, utterly destroys the idea that the waters of baptism (or act of baptism) is what saves you. it's good to continue the thought of the Apostle rather than hanging on a few words and driving the car off the cliff.
Apologia Studios Just to make sure I've got this verse right: Baptism saves you not because it actually removes guilt before God (washing away of dirt) but because it is functioning as an expression of saving faith (an appeal to God for a clear conscience). So saying "Baptism saves" is true in a certain figurative way, but not in the way that makes baptism necessary for salvation. Right?
+Michael Hill I think you're spot on. I might annotate the verse like this (not to change the meaning, but only as an illustration, to highlight my interpretation of the existing text). *Baptism, which corresponds to this, now* [as in, now that we've established the contextual groundwork in the previous verses] *saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body* [which is what water does; so it is not the act of putting water on a person which saves] *but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience* [so the appeal to God for clear conscience is the saving part, not the washing of the body]*, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ* [this last clause closes the analogy in the preceding passages, concerning the flood, the baptism, and the death and resurrection]*.* I think this interpretation of the passage reconciles it with other passages which discuss salvation by faith without immediately mentioning baptism (Here's a good list: carm.org/verses-showing-justification-by-faith). What do you guys think about it? Am I misusing it in any way? if so, how?
Cody Skinner In addition to what Apologia and the other brothers have said, the Apostle Peter already spoke on regeneration 2 chapters prior and revealed how a man experiences ἀναγεννάω (or being born again). It's by receiving the proclaimed gospel. Check it out: 1Pet. 1:22 ¶ Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart, 1Pet. 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; 1Pet. 1:24 for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, 1Pet. 1:25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.” ¶ And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
lucduchien I like the way you put that! You actually said that in a way that almost exactly represents my thought pattern. We ought to harmonize the text of Scripture and submit to it, not go against what it says. Very good point!
what are you rattling on about? let those who have arguments about baptism, go and argue with Jesus. see where that get's them. trust and obey. the simplicity of Christ. Jesus Saves
You guys are all wrong.the thief on the cross was before the new testament, death burial and resurction. Baptism is not a work of the law its an act of faith col 2:11-12. There's not one verse that says baptism is a work
I agree with most of Jeff's preaching but I really dont know about this one so many scriptures stating the opposite. Mark says, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16, NKJV). Jesus told Nicodemus, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water [baptized] and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5, NKJV). Jesus further told His disciples to go everywhere preaching the gospel and making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see Matthew 28:18-20). If we read just these verses in isolation, we might think that it is impossible to be saved without being baptized. However, the Bible is clear that there is no saving virtue or merit in the act of baptism itself. Jesus is our only Savior (see John 3:16; Acts 4:12; 2 Corinthians 3:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21). So baptism is not necessary for salvation in the sense that only Jesus can save us. He is our only Savior. And the act of baptism, itself, does not save us. But this does not mean that baptism is not important. It does not mean that we can be baptized or not as we choose-once we have believed on Jesus and accepted Him as our Savior. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). And He has commanded us to be baptized (see Matthew 28:18-20). A person who loves Jesus and accepts Him as his or her Savior, will want to follow Him in baptism. Baptism is important, because it is a public declaration that we have accepted Jesus and are turning our back on the old life of sin and are now trusting Jesus to live a new life as a Christian. When we are placed under the water and raised back out of it, we are symbolically stating that we have died to sin, that our old life of sin has been buried, and that we have been raised to new life in Jesus-just as He died for our sins, was buried, and was raised to life again (see Romans 6:3-5). There are a number of similarities between baptism and marriage. When a couple decides to get married, is the wedding ceremony ritual really necessary for a boyfriend and girlfriend to act like a husband and wife? No, the couple are still the same people before the wedding day. Yet, still worldwide everyone wants to have a wedding ceremony to publically announce that they are now married. The relationship of the couple is not based on the wedding, but it sure means a lot to the husband and wife. Baptism is like getting married to Jesus. It is the outward symbol of an inward change. Baptism may not be required to save you, but it sure means a lot to Jesus. Just as marriage is the formation of a new family, so baptism is the entrance into the Christian family. In marriage one takes the name of one’s partner, and in baptism we take the name of Christ (Christian). God designs that marriage is to be an experience in which the husband’s and wife’s personal relationship is ever growing and improving throughout a lifetime. And He designs baptism to be an experience in which our personal relationship with Him grows and improves throughout our lifetime. So, is baptism necessary for salvation? Strictly speaking, No. Because salvation comes only through the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary (see Romans 3:25; 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:20; Hebrews 9:22; Revelation 1:5; etc.). However, those whom Jesus Christ has saved will gladly follow Him in the extremely important step of baptism.
Taking scriptures out of context leads to false salvation messages. Let me clear something up that you all need to understand before you can properly follow the word of truth. You need to know who is doing the writing - You need to know to whom the letter was being sent. You cannot take a letter destined for a certain group of believers and apply it to yourself if you do not believe the same as both the author and the receivers. Once you apply this reasoning then the word will open up to you. Therefore, what you need to do is study the author and in the book of Peter it is the apostle Peter and, in the very first verse he states to whom the letter applies. Remember the books of the new testament were letters sent to believers from the church leaders. Question #1: What did Peter believe you 'must do' for salvation? This is very easy to find and it's clearly written in Acts 2:38 First, after Peter finished preaching the people asked them "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Peter just stated what is required for remission of sins. Jesus told the disciples to preach remission of sins and they did. Peter did not go into great detail about baptism BUT anther apostle did - His name is Paul. In Romans verse 7 it identifies to whom the letter was intended. "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." The letter is to the saints at the church in Rome. They were all saved by baptism into Jesus Christ and filled with the holy ghost. Paul himself was saved by baptism into Jesus Christ when he was baptized by Ananias. Therefore, you can clearly see here the author was saved by baptism and everyone at any of his churches he established were also saved by baptism into Jesus Christ. The principle of learning what the author of the letter believed and to whom he was writing the letter, will lead you towards the truth of salvation. You CANNOT take scriptures out of letters and attempt to make a new salvation message! Getting back to baptism - Paul explains the process in Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? WOW! this is very telling. 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: When we are baptized and under the water we die - yes for salvation you first must die. Paul says, when under the water Jesus is with us BUT, when we come out of the water, Christ comes in us - (also called the Holy Ghost) This is the seed of life, the seed (gift) of the Father - it converts us from death to life. We are now the incorruptible seed and the children of the kingdom. We are new creatures in Christ - We are the Elect - our name is written in the book of LIFE - We are joint heirs with Christ - We are the Church, the body of Christ and Jesus is the head of the body. He knows us as we now have a relationship with the Father and the Son - we have a new family name! We shall rise and meet Jesus in the air upon his return, for only His Elect will be saved on that day because we have been converted from death to LIFE - death will NOT enter his kingdom. Yes baptism does absolutely save you and it is clearly expressed in the bible. Anyone that teaches another salvation is not being lead by the Holy Ghost. - but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. SalvationJourney.com
Jeff I like you in almost everything but in this point you are way off, you disregard all Covenant theology, all the verses that links the abrahamic covenant and the new covenant, all the specific texts in Acts that say the promise is to you and your children, and so on. Go look Palmer O Robertson amazing work( Christ of the Covenants) or Berkohf's arguments for infant baptism. John MacArthur arguments are horrible just as his escathology, distinction between Israel(believers) and the church(believers) as two separate people of God, and his dispensational view of scripture. And by the way baptism is just a sign of the covenant pointing to the Baptism with the Holy Spirit just as flesh circuncision points to the circuncision of heart.
DeVergam baptism is a command, not an option for a beleiver. dont down play it. if you're to be fruitful you're to be cleansed. . infants aren't able to postulate their own meaning and worth. parents can and should dedicate with a prayer them to the lord out of fear and reverence of his holiness, if they choose, but infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls. the bible is clear on the issue.
DeVergam baptism is a command, not an option for a beleiver. dont down play it. if you're to be fruitful you're to be cleansed. . infants aren't able to postulate their own meaning and worth. parents can and should dedicate with a prayer them to the lord out of fear and reverence of his holiness, if they choose, but infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls. the bible is clear on the issue.
dustin Rhoads " infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls." If infant baptism was meaningless then why did paul teach that it replaced circumcision (which happens to infants) and why did every single successor to the apostles teach that baby baptism was valid and encouraged? Why do we not see anyone at all in the church teaching against baby baptism for over a thousand years?
Baptism is meaningless to save anyone. Baptism does not save. It is the sign of a covenant just as baptism. And baptism is the Christian circumcision. Flesh circumcision(external) points to spiritual heart circumcision(internal/regeneration), and the same for water baptism(external) points to the baptism with the Holy Spirit(internal/regeneration). ( and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Colossians 2:11-15)
DeVergam If baptism is meaningless then why did every single one of the apostles disciples affirm that the apostles taught them that baptism saves and why did Peter say, "baptism saves you"? (1peter 3:21). Additionally, why did every single apostalic father and early church father exegete 1peter in the same way?
So this is confusing to me. You seem to say faith is all you need, but then what is faith? Just believing in Christ and who He is? Or is faith the act of being faithful? Doing what we are told to do, and how we are told to do it? Then Grace is all we need. Doesn't that mean we all deserve to perish, but because of God's Grace, we have another option in Christ? It seems to me there is a pattern to it all, a pattern everyone followed, and baptism is clearly a part of that pattern. It seems to me the pattern is necessary. But to claim that those that are called cannot lose their salvation seems wrong to me. What is the purpose of repentance then? Is it necessary if you cannot lose salvation? James 5:19-20 seems pretty clear that this theology is wrong. -I'm new to your theology.
In Hebrew Faith is to believe and do. Which is why marriage is a symbol, of God's relationship with humans. If we love God we'll do what he says. If you love your wife you'll be faithful to her.
@@BradleyHDez Yeah, that is my point. And if you're unfaithful, you might get 'divorced.' That is why Repentance is so important, because we're all stupid sinners. lol
51:35 - This is a great question. The bible literally says it's for the remission of sins, for washing away sins, for salvation, etc, but you'll never know it from this man's preaching. Dear listener, you are faced with an important choice: believe this preacher or believe in the bible. There's no middle ground on baptism. I suggest obeying the Apostle Peter rather than this preacher.
Here is a scripture, probably somewhat obscure to concerned Christians, that will probably get me condemned by Pastor Jeff Durbin, but I thought I would quote it anyway. Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordon unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. This guy had not repented. He had no sins to repent of. Now according to concerned Christians, Jesus did all of these three things at the same time all by himself. He was baptized; he said, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased; and he descended like a dove. That is certainly a God who can multi-task, all right. This is almost as impressive as when he ascended into heaven to sit at his own right hand. The church I belong to believes that God the Father was the one who said, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's. If I went into Pastor Jeff Durbin's church and said this, he says he would kick me out and tell his followers not to ever have anything to do with me. But Pastor Jeff Durbin keeps sending these nonsensical videos to my computer. As soon as Pastor Jeff figures out how to stop sending them to me, I think we will all be happier.
No. It just recognizes that the new covenant is different from the old and that our practice should follow scripture rather than tradition and especially a covenantal system that calvin invented.
So why did the earliest Christians teach that the act of baptism was for the remission of sins and the person was regenerated after baptism? That belief is also in all the earliest Creed's....Peter said baptism now saves you but can you tell me where it was ever taught that only faith can save a person? Where was it ever taught (before Luther) and by whom that all we need is faith?
Phillip Hickman So, I'm just going to point out that you are stating your presupposition: The early Christians all taught that salvation was by faith (alone?). Would you also add that it is by grace alone through faith alone? I don't want to make assumptions so for clarity's sake let me know if you would agree with that point.
Phillip Hickman " I prefer to say we are saved by grace through faith APART from any work " Okay, but lets go ahead and admit that saying we are saved by grace through faith *apart* from any work is the exact same thing as saying *faith alone* - which would also be known as the doctrine of Sola Fide. We should be able to agree on that point. So above you made the claim that the early Christians all taught Sola Fide. How do you know that? Have you examined all of the early teachings and writings by the early church fathers? Here is a question to ponder: How do you explain that the only time the Holy Spirit inspired a biblical author to use the words *faith* and *alone* in the bible is to say that we are not saved by faith alone? "...you see that a man is justified by works and *not by faith alone"* - James 2:24 How do you explain... Jesus: ". . . for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:37 "Baptism now saves you" 1 peter 3:21 "No one can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:3-5) What if.....just what if 'to believe' also means 'to be obedient'. If we could make that connection....that to believe means to obey, would that change your mind on sola fide?
Phillip Hickman Well, Phillip, it seems interesting that you made the claim that the church always taught Sola Fide but the odd thing is that it is a historical and verifiable fact that no one, not even one person taught Sola Fide until the Reformation. This is the very reason sola fide is considered a 'mark' of the reformation. That isn't my opinion, that is the claim of protestant experts on christian history. I have examined the historical record as a protestant who was fervently trying to sustain my faith, ready to use any morsel I could find. In truth, sola fide just simply wasn't taught....by anyone....until the reformation. That point is historically verifiable. To point to the biblical manuscripts and say that you know sola fide is true because that is how you interpret the scriptures would be guilty of begging the question: How do you know your interpretation is the correct one? Regarding Ephesians 1:13 Notice that you are putting forth an 'Either/Or' proposition by saying that we are saved by faith alone and that's it so it's either faith alone or nothing at all. Now the problem with that is the bible says quite a bit more on salvation than one single verse, which means all the verses must be harmonized. We can't just pick one and say...'yep, that's it...that's all we need', especially when there are verses that say the exact opposite of your claim. So the alternative is instead of an either/or proposition it is a Both/And proposition. Belief is necessary but it is not sufficient - and that is exactly why there is not even one single early christian that taught sola fide, the church never taught sola fide and the bible is full of verses saying we need to be baptized if we want to be saved and that we must be obedient if we are to be saved. The historically verifiable position is that we must believe, we must be baptized and we must be obedient.....we need all those things and that is the only message taught until the reformation. What do you say to this verse? "The one who *believes* in the Son has eternal life, but the one who *disobeys* the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him." John 3:36 Notice here Jesus says that the opposite of belief is disobedience. There are 2 points you should consider: 1. If the opposite of belief is disobedience then that means Belief entails Obedience and Disbelief entails disobedience. 2. The word 'believe' is in the present perfect form, which means it is an action that took place in the past and continues into the future. Notice here that in ephesians 1:33 it used the past tense. So which is it? The protestant offers an either/or distinction. Either a past action or an ongoing action. Yet what we find in the historical teachings is that it is once again a both/and. It is both a past action and a continuation. Only the both/and proposition allows us to harmonize both passages. This is a hand grenade in the doctrine of sola fide because verses such as john 3:16 "...that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life" Actually reads.... "...that whosoever continues to believe (this entails obedience) in Him will have everlasting life" Jesus says that Belief entails Obedience. In that way we can harmonize all of the passages. Faith is necessary but it's not the only thing....we must be obedient. This is one of the reasons I found the protestant position to be rather shallow. Belief entails obedience and belief is not a single action that took place in the past...it is something that took place and continues. Consider some of these points from the early writings on baptism. Notice how they all believe that it was the act of physically being baptised that regenerated a person and saved them from sins.....a point I was entirely ignorant of as a protestant. LETTER OF BARNABAS Concerning [baptism], .... Notice how he has described at once both the water and the cross. For these words imply, Blessed are they who, placing their trust in the cross, have gone down into the water. . . . This means that we descend into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear [of God] and trust in Jesus in our spirit [Letter of Barnabas 11 (c. A.D. 75)] SECOND CLEMENT (trained by Peter himself) For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, *if we disobey his commandments, nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment*. . . . [H]ow can we hope to enter into the royal residence of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we are possessed of works of holiness and righteousness? [Second Clement 6 (c. A.D. 80)] ST. JUSTIN MARTYR I will also relate the way in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we were made new through Christ. . . . As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their past sins, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us *where there is water*, and *are regenerated* in the same way that we were regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” [First Apology 61 (c. A.D. 151)]. ST. THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men being destined to receive repentance and *remission of sins through the water and washing of regeneration*, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God [To Autolycus 2:16 (c. A.D. 181)]. ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA *Being baptized*, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, *we are made immortal*. “I,” says he, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld-that is, by which we see God clearly [Instructor of Children 1:6 (c. A.D. 197)]. TERTULLIAN OF CARTHAGE *Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life*. . . . [But] a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. This is in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps . . . themselves generally live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [great] fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, have safety in no other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water! [Baptism 1 (c. A.D. 203)]. [B]aptism itself is carnal, in that we are *plunged in water*, but the effect spiritual, in that *we are freed from sins* [ibid., 7]. ST. HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME And the bishop shall lay his hand upon [the newly baptized], invoking and saying: “O Lord God, who counted these worthy of the *forgiveness of sins through the bath of regeneration*, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace [in confirmation], that they may serve you according to your will” [The Apostolic Tradition 22 (c. A.D. 215)]. ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE While I was still lying in darkness . . . I used to regard it as a difficult matter . . . that a man should be capable of being born again-a truth that divine mercy announced for my salvation-and that a man quickened to a new life in the laver of saving water should be able to put off what he had previously been; and, although retaining his bodily structure, should be changed in heart and soul. . . . But after that, *by the help of the water of new birth, the stain of former years was washed away, and a light from above, serene and pure, was infused* into my reconciled heart-after that, by the agency of the Spirit breathed from heaven, a second birth had restored me to a new man [Letters 1:3-4 (c. A.D. 246)]. ST. APHRAHAT THE PERSIAN SAGE [F]rom baptism do we receive the Spirit of Christ. For in that hour in which the priests invoke the Spirit, the heavens open and it descends and moves upon the waters [Gn 1:2]. And those that are baptized are clothed in it; for the Spirit stays aloof from those who are born of the flesh, until they come to *the new birth by water*, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . [I]n the second birth, *through baptism*, they received the Holy Spirit [Demonstrations 6:14 (c. A.D. 340)]. ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM *If a man does not receive baptism, he has not salvation;* except only martyrs, who even without the water receive the kingdom. For when the Savior, in redeeming the world by his cross, was pierced in the side, he shed blood and water; that men, living in times of peace, might be baptized in water, and, in times of persecution, in their own blood. For martyrdom the Savior is wont to call a baptism, saying, Can you drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? [Mk 10:38] . . . For you go down into the water, bearing your sins, but the invocation of grace, having sealed your soul, suffers you afterwards not to be swallowed up by the terrible dragon. Having gone down dead in sins, you come up quickened in righteousness [Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 (c. A.D. 350)]
Phillip Hickman " Most baptismal regenerationist believe you didn't have to be baptized on this side on pentacost because of the thief on the cross." Ah, well, Phillip here you betray your historical knowledge. It is a historical fact that every single teacher taught that baptism was necessary and that it was commanded by Jesus. All of the fathers taught that baptism was a *normative necessity*. That means under normal circumstances one must be baptized. They went on to teach (and affirm that they were taught) that the person who is ignorant of this command but sincerely is living to please God is considered baptised by desire, as well as the person who dies before they can be baptized (like a person in a car accident). And the person who is martyred prior to being baptized is considered baptized by blood. Now if a person refuses to be baptized and they know that it is a command then they are disobedient. Disobedience means they do not believe. If you do not believe then.....well....you get the point. Now, if Baptism was an absolute teaching that would mean the exceptions wouldn't matter; They would be condemned, however, that is why it has from the start been a teaching of normative necessity. We are to be obedient. To be disobedient is to disbelieve. The thief on the cross: Jesus asks us to do all that we can do. The thief did all that he could do...and that was all he could do. However, if Jesus had transported him healed into the crowd he would be expected to be obedient to Christ and be baptized just like everyone else and just like every single christian teacher taught unanimously until the reformation.
Those who say Baptism is necessary for salvation would seem to imply that Jesus was lying to the thief on the cross when he said "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23). The man was never baptized. He never had communion. He simply believe that Christ was Lord, and Jesus saved him from Hell.
You need to read more. How do you know the thief was not baptized? Also, Christ was still alive and the baptism (we are baptized into his death) was not necessary for the thief just like those that came before Christ came into the world.
@@billslim9267 He was not baptized because he was hanging on the cross, dying. He was not immersed into living waters in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I read plenty. You seem to be reading something that is not there into the text, however. Baptism is not required for salvation. Period.
Mark 16:16, Acts 9:17, 10:43-48, Gal. 3:26-27. These are just a few scriptures. There are many conversations on the subject in the Bible. If Baptism is not mentioned for salvation it is mentioned earlier or later in the same book. The early Church understood that Jesus commanded Baptism. Peter ordered it. There was no question, they did it and wrote about. Baptism did not come from the OT law. The Bible makes it very clear that the water does not save you as a removal of dirt, but we are buried and resurrected with Christ for the forgiveness of sin. Rom.6, Acts 2:38. I do not understand stand why this eve has to be an issue. The Baptism Jesus calls us to do is not from the Old Testament law. It is not works. It is for the putting on of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
baptism is faith, it isn't a work of the Mosaic Law nor is it a work that merits. but you aren't a disciple, in the church, born again etc... if you aren't water baptized.
Moses said, "behold the salvation of the Lord", then the Lord parted the red sea. Hebrews says they were baptized in the Sea by faith. if they believed but didn't walk through would they have been saved? was the walking through the sea a meritorious work? you must have both for it to be considered biblical faith.
huh?... they passed through the sea by faith... that was their baptism. you don't stay in the sea, you come up out of death and go to the promised land. you aren't United to christ if you haven't died with him in baptism.
give me 1 Christian that didn't teach baptismal regeneration the first 500 years let's say? all the Ante-nicaean fathers who speak on baptism say it's the seal, it's when we are regenerated, justified, sanctified, added to the church, put on christ, are cleansed from sins, is what Jesus was talking about in John 3 being born of water and spirit, is a command etc... only the heretics taught that we didn't have to be baptized to be saved and the Christians taught that if you deny baptism you deny the whole faith.
Sean Heath We don't prove negatives. The burden of proof is on you to show that every early Christian (or how about every early Christian writer) maintained that baptism is necessary for salvation, justification, sanctification, etc. We can show that certain church fathers didn't mention the topic in their writings. When you say that baptism is a seal, what do you take that to mean? Do you mean that it's a seal as in a ziplock bag that kinda seals in all your righteousness (like a ziplock bag seals in flavor)? Or do you mean it in the sense of Paul speaking of circumcision and Abraham in Romans 4 (a seal of the righteousness that Paul already had while uncircumcised)? Also, would you like to have a moderated, formal, and civil debate on the topic? We could do it via Google Hangouts. We would debate the topic from Scripture.
I mean in the first 500 years all you will find is the Church universally teaching baptismal regeneration and I was asking if you knew of anyone who taught otherwise? The Ante-nicaean fathers say the "seal" is the water and the water is the sealing of our faith. i can show you the quotes but didn't want to blast the page up. I wouldn't mind, but I'm not a scholar.
I need to mention something important. Baptismal regeneration doesn't necessarily mean that baptism is necessary for salvation. I can show early church fathers speaking on justification by faith alone. Let me start by showing this: carm.org/early-church-fathers-baptism Okay, please send me an email at drspock93@gmail.com with your name and we can set it up. When you say seal of faith, do you take that to mean that without the seal, there is no faith?
mark. 16:16... 1 pt. 3:21... Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and ADMITTED INTO eternal life! Tertullian (A.D. 198) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.3 pg.669 Can give more on them talking about it being our regeneration, and when connected to Titus 3:5... we are saved by regeneration. We have faith in the gospel before choosing to be baptized, hence why we repent and show faith concretized in Baptism. These are means by which we receive salvation, justification, sanctification etc...
Those quotes are chopped... Polycarp does mention we are saved by grace and not of the works of the mosaic law and will reign with him IF we love what he loves, hates what he hates...and then quotes some things Jesus said from his sermon. hence, conditional based on love, faithfulness and obedience. I don't know of anyone who believed in faith only in your head would save you. They were very basic, a normal relationship is loving, faithful and obedient.
1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness THE DEATH OF THE SINNER 2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin. When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
This message is even more important today!
as a born again Irish Presbyterian I have been struggling with the question of baptism. the holy spirit speaks of what scripture says,I feel I should get baptized not need to be .my salvation is secure come what may but the call of water baptism is so strong I am going to take the plunge. thank you Jeff for your gracious teaching god bless.
"if it is the truth I believe, I only have it by the grace of God." Amen to that
Amen
God bless you pastor Jeff! What an inspiring message!
Baptist here, and yes, R. C. Sproul’s books have been a tool that God has used to change my life!
Good stuff Apologia. From a Presbyterian.
I was there visiting my brother in Tempe. We decided to attend Apologia Church but didn't anticipate the 3 hour service haha. I am grateful though that this was given a fair, balanced, and Biblical representation.
Pastor Jeff is out there doing so much good for the Kingdom of God - my prayers are with him and the Apologia Church, I do however believe that we are Baptized into Christ - where in is all salvation, and spiritual blessings. Pastor Jeff likes Romans, as do I - Romans 6 is very clear - "Or do you not know that as many of you as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death: Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." verse 3-4 also Galatians 3:26-27, "For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." To clarify, I am not saying that simply getting immersed in water has any power to save - it is Jesus Christ - His sacrifice, the mercy and grace of an all powerful God who saves. I am saying that an all powerful, sovereign God has all authority on Earth and in Heaven and commands us to be baptized as a way to be buried with Christ in baptism, to die to self, to be reborn as a Christian - and added to the church - we are baptized into Christ - this does not negate the essential elements of Faith, confession, repentance and walking in the Spirit - all of these go hand in hand together and are not possible to do anything without grace, mercy and the loving sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. How do some say that baptism is somehow a work that earns salvation and proves your in like flinn - no need to worry - if you're dunked you're saved move on - but not have the very same concern about someone who says the sinner's prayer ( no where found in scripture by the way - give the verse if you can) or that confession that Jesus is Lord, or belief or Faith are any less works or motions that could be gone through without any real salvation occurring. It is the symbolic way of being added to the church and placed in Jesus Christ. Bottom line - by your fruits you will know them - it is a process of growth, of submitting in obedience and being filled with the Holy Spirit, which gives you the power to overcome temptation and to produce the fruit of the Spirit in your life and to become transformed and not conformed to this world by the renewing of your mind. Act 2:38 - they were pricked in their hearts - they realized they had murdered the long awaited Messiah and asked Peter - What must we do? The answer, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins - 3,000 were obedient in baptism and were added to the church. Read Acts - what is the example in scripture over and over, - The Phillipian Jailer, Paul, Cornelius and his entire Household ( I do not think this means babies and kids too young to repent, confess and understand the Gospel), Lydia, Simon the Sorcerer, the Ethiopian Eunuch, Acts Chp 18: 8 - Crispus and many of the Corinthians believe and were baptized. Apollos who had only been baptized in John's baptism - when they taught him more accurately, Paul baptized him in the name of Jesus Christ, Paul laid hands on him and he received the Holy Spirit. There is so much more - I don't believe baptism is some magic ceremony that is a work which causes us to be saved - I just believe it is the commanded process to access the saving Grace of God and be added to the church and placed into Christ.
Great preaching and even greater teaching
Thanks Jeff
There is the flip side where young one's that don't truly understand sin or repentance, saying what they think you want to hear for attention, and getting sealed as hypocrites not truly converted (usually Arminian Baptist). I say this because I was one, and am surrounded by them frequently in today's society, most self proclaimed Christians I meet in the world today would appear to be false converts who walked an aisle at some point.
Awesome brother
Been a credo Baptist for 50 yrs, got challenged about 6 months ago to look into paedo baptism, read Sproul
Cont. Read Wilson, then Gertsner, then studied the word comparing both, by the way I am in a reformed Baptist Church, like most I believed what I was told doing a light study of the subject. Then I met a good friend who declared he was now a paedo baptist, that caused me to search even harder. After much soul searching n study and some discourse with my pastors I have come to see the revelation of the matter and it is wonderful. The final nail in the old credo coffin was what said to the jailer, believe and be saved n your household, immediately he n all his family(household) were baptized. If the HSpt had inserted the word adults in the command, the argument would be over n credoes would be right, but He did not and there's many other places we see the same command, the whole house. As you stated the baptists don't include their kids. We do, believing the word to give the sign before faith comes in the hopes that it will, same was in the old, first the sign and then faith, not coming to all but all the Lord calls. Many young people stay in the Presby church because they are not excluded but included and thrive and become a great blessing. How sweet to baptize our babies into the covenant in the hope that will receive faith to believe, as many do at a very young age and partake of the sacrement. The Presby witness over the ages is astounding as our freedoms attest to their standing strong against tyranny and injustice along with their whole families. There are a few good churches that emulate them but most are shut in with their pietism and disregard for the culture. I commend you for pointing out the errors found in your church and the good work you all do in engaging the culture and exposing error, and preaching all of the word. Blessings as we travel this hiway of holiness together to spread the kingdom.
5 examples of household baptism, in 4 of those households there was either repentance believing or hearing the word and rejoicing believing in God, recieving the Holy Spirit. Pretty sure that shows the households were believers !
Very edifying and helpful. Thank you.
I was told I was baptized wrong in The of the father, son,Holy Spirit? Broke my heart 😢
Just do what Peter commanded in Acts 2:38. This is the Apostles' Doctrine, a fundamental "Doctrine of Christ" (see Hebrews 6). Be blessed!
This was excellent. Thank you for putting this out!
Thank you for this!
Love the part right after the 1 hour mark!
I just listened to the very end of Pastor Jeff's sermon - where he asked for all of those who had repented and believed but not been Baptized yet to come up after and be baptized - I think that is wonderful. I guess I am struggling with the point of where do our differences lie? I think it is the immediate urgency of Baptism - the pattern I see in scripture is that when people were taught the Gospel, they had Faith, they believed, they repented and confessed Jesus as their Lord and Savior - it then followed that they got baptized, often immediately - but not always as with Paul - it was several days later, but it was a part of that process and pattern. I just believe when preaching the Gospel - the instruction should be the same as Peter's on the Day of Pentecost - I don't think we should be instructing people to say the sinner's prayer and just get Baptized when it's convenient, whenever - whether it be days, months or years later. It is the way God places you in Christ and in His church - a sovereign God decided that. Does that mean a sovereign God cannot make exceptions, or change the order, as in the thief on the cross or as in with Cornelius when the Holy Spirit came on he and his household prior to baptism? No, of course not - God is God and He will always do what is correct and right in the particular circumstance, but it followed that people got baptized as part of that process and Paul was asked, why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins calling on the name of the Lord. It naturally followed that upon hearing and accepting the Gospel they were baptized and it was to wash away their sins. This should be the instruction to people as we are preaching and evangelizing to them - we should follow the scriptural pattern - that is all I believe. I just don't see leaving that out until much later as an afterthought - oh, by the way come on up and get wet. It just was not done that way in Acts.
Why do you think they were baptized so urgently?
How do you know the thief on the cross was not baptized? Also Christ had not died yet at that point so the baptism was not yet necessary just like those that lived before Christ.
@@colepriceguitar1153 It seems like enthusiasm and joy, a desire to obey upon their belief and faith. Works don't save but saving faith bears fruit and is shown by obedience. Abraham's faith was accounted to him as righteousness but he believed God trusted God and packed up and left his home in obedience. He was not perfect, it was a process of growth and sanctification.
@@billslim9267 He could have been baptized with John's baptism. Don't know. Maybe there's a baptismal just outside Heaven's gate??? Kidding 😄. I see both sides on the Baptism issue. Sad it leads to division among Christians. I see the danger of putting too much emphasis on a checklist of things a person does to be saved rather than on what Christ did - that and only that saves. Saving faith will result in love for Christ, really making him Lord by dying to self, taking up your cross and following - why do you call me Lord and don't do what I say? If you love me you'll keep my commandments. But also you can do a lot of good works in His name but get to the thrown on judgement day and be told by Jesus that He never knew you - you can give all your wealth to the poor and your body to be burned but without love it profits you nothing. If you refuse to forgive others, you won't be forgiven by your father.
@@pattisnee6932 I think it was because it was an appeal to God to wash away their sins (acts 22:16).
Powerful message 🙏
Baptism is a work. Sola fide.
"...for the remission of sins..."
But who is it doing the work?
It's God, of course, doing the real work. The washing with water is just the physical analogy of the metaphysical reality.
Sola Gratia first and foremost
Pre-covid sermons were the best. RIP liberty
Communism is evil and of the devil.
@@skubz81 not what lenin said
Thank you Jeff Durbin!
For the record I disagree with Strawbridge here and think the most consistent way would be to recognize we no longer stone the unbelieving spouse. That I would say is a distinction that needs to be made.
I would also say, the questions we bring up, "How can you pray with them, vs for them" is a valid question.
Would like to see your ministry debate baptismal regeneration with some churches of Christ apologists. Ever done that?
When the Baptist and the Presbyterian debate the issue of baptism and they fail to discuss the baptism of the Holy Spirit found in Luke 3:16, and John chapter 3, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27, they are both clueless to the circumcision of heart, found in Romans 2:28-29. The most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The power to overcome sin is in the Spirit, instead of in the water. Watch the RUclips video "New Covenant Baptism 3:16".
@@SpotterVideo how are they clueless? as far as i know, they are speaking about water baptism here, they dont deny the fact that the holy spirit has given us life, thats just not what they are speaking about in these messages.
@@taylordutton4347 Do they normally see water when they read the word "baptism" in the New Testament, before they ever consider the possibility that the passage could be talking about the baptism of the Spirit?
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
ruclips.net/video/bPpEk718Xc0/видео.html
Yo man you're so cool love your T-shirt and your beard and your necklace and your tattoos and your fum ring Great word man keep up the good work God bless
How can someone be saved without being united in Christ in baptism?
Thief on the cross
candice beebe
The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was not in effect yet because Jesus was still alive. Jesus saved the thief before he died. Also, we do not know if the thief had been baptized or not, the Bible doesn’t say.
Right Here
Where is the scripture that says that?
Baptism is not an outward sign of an inward change, it is a commandment from Jesus.
Mark 16:16
“whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned”
@@cnorris5571 Can someone receive the Holy Spirit without being baptized first? The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. [Therefore] ROMANS 4:1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in[a] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: ROMANS 4:The Promise Realized Through Faith
13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring-not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, [ why would Paul write this if baptism is salvific?] 1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
When Jesus died the new Law came to be in affect. When The Thief ask Jesus to save him that Law was not in place. Heb 9:15
This is the cup of my blood, the blood of the (new testament)
I’ve just recently discovered your work on RUclips and have been enjoying your videos. Thank you! I’m a Christian who is really getting hungry to study Gods word and am looking for a recommendation on a really good study Bible. Do you have one you would recommend? I’ve been around a Bible my whole life but want to understand it deeper.
sorry about that..
praise The LORD amen
you were right
I was wrong
sorry Pastor Jeff
May The LORD bless you in every way 🎉🎉🎉🎉😇😊😃
I wonder how many other AoG guys listen to Jeff.
Me! But theologically I'm almost identical to him and Dr White.
I grew up Assemblies of God and currently attend an A/G church. But I’m reformed and postmill
Why is Baptism a difficult idea?
Believing in God, and in Jesus as the Saviour is a pre-requisite.
Baptism can be conducted by any believer, in any body of water.
Both are required for salvation.
Pretty straight forward to me...
If they are both required for salvation, then the thief on the cross did not enter paradise as he was not able to follow with water baptism. At least if we go by your statement.
Jacob Martinez I disagree, Jesus in His divine authority gave him a pass. That’s not for us to challenge.
@@mopar7682 gave him a pass! God gave a sinner a pass to salvation!!!
Jacob Martinez this is a ridiculous argument. Why do we as Christians spin out wheels on such things?
The thief was clearly an exception to the rule, given by Jesus himself.
The word is clear for everyone else. Salvation/redemption requires belief, repentance, and baptism.
What exactly is your argument to this? That baptism isn’t really required?
@@mopar7682 we Christians just as you should, spin out on things when God lowers his standards and especially to things that are required in your view. That's the real scary part.
Did you list James White as a Prespy? Look out!
Ha that's what I thought I heard a couple times too. And think Jeff meant "8 day/month old baby" not an "8 year old baby". ;) Still a good start to the baptism discussion!
Jonathan Walters No. He was listing his heroes. Then he showed that many were Presbyterian.
Jonathan Walters I thought he was listing people he has disagreements with that he respects as Christian leaders.
Amen!
I have a question: if I were a Mormon who is perhaps changing over to an evangelical perspective, would I have to be rebaptized? This is a really sensitive issue for me and I can't say I've totally worked out my beliefs. But...hypothetically...would it be necessary? It's scary for me because I don't want to feel like I'm in a double bind. (and I know this seems silly to people who don't understand Mormonism but it's very real to me)
Id say absolutely. The Jesus of mormonism is NOT the same Jesus of the bible and of the true Gospel. So yes absolutely
Is Jeff cessationist? I know that almost all the Reformed Anglicans in Australia are.
regardless, I am grateful for all the work you guys are doing.
Jeff, I so appreciate your emphasis on "repentance, faith, then baptism." Here's my issue with your teaching. You say that baptism SYMBOLIZES our UNION with his (Christ's) death. Paul in Romans 6:3-4 (NLT2)
3 Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined
him in his death?
4 For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead
by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
Jeff, where does Paul say that it was SYMBOLIC??? Paul is talking about a spiritual reality. Here's how it would read according to your preaching in this message:
Romans 6:3-4 (NLT2)
3 Or have you forgotten that when we were (symbolically) joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we (symbolically) joined him in his death?
4 For we (symbolically) died and were (symbolically) buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may (symbolically) live new lives.
--It doesn't work. It totally emasculates Paul's teaching. Paul taught that our being baptized INTO Christ Jesus gave us a new identity in Christ and buried our old man, our old nature, and raised us to newness in Christ. Not symbolically, but as a REALITY.
For years I was raised with the baptismal incantation before each baptism, "Baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ." But Paul doesn't say that. We have INJECTED "symbolic" and totally watered-down or destroyed what Paul was saying in Romans 6.
So did you literally die when you went under the water? Did you literally raise from the dead? No. It's absolutely symbolic. If Baptism saves, Salvation comes by our works. It's heresy to teach that Water Baptism saves. If someone trusts in Water Baptism and not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the Washing of Regeneration, they are deceived.
Great message! Brazil watching you here!
But..What about Jesus baptism? He had no reason for any regret and, yet...he went throught baptism..
Matheus Lopes ofc. Jesus lived the live we are supposed to live. So he wants us to get baptised to turn from sinn. But it's not necessary to be saved. Still Jesus wants us to be baptized. It's a promise to God after we came to faith. To turn from sinn.
It wasn't because Jesus needed to be baptized.....baptism needed Him!
Was Paul in Rom 6 speaking of H20 or spiritual?? e.g Holy Ghost...
Thanks!
Soli deo Gloria
Dear Brother Jeff. I have listened to all of your sermons, and watched all of your videos. You have a great and powerful gift. I agree with most of your preachings. And agree with most of your views. However on this subject ,, we disagree. My view is of this. It’s kinda like the bases on a baseball field. There is more than on base that we have to touch. When baptized,, the first base is death,, second base is burial,, and third base is our resurrection. These are all acts that we commit. Then as we are adopted has a child we are placed in his stewardship. Then when he sees that we are truly dedicated to following Christ our savior, he places with in us something that we are not capable of doing outside Christ,, which is the Holy Spirit,, which is when we leave third base and make it to home plate . I love you and wish to meet you some day,, but I also wish you could change your view on this matter,, as you are going to be held to a higher measuring standard than the average since you are a teacher and minister . And this,, if Jesus felt it necessary to be baptized by immersion,, why not everyone who follows. Just my view. Much love brother..
Part 2???? When y'all gonna post it?
The steps to accept the Gospel as revealed in Acts 2:37-38 are not as Jeff said - 1. repentance, 2. faith 3. baptism. After the 3000 people were "pricked in their hearts" they had 1. faith enough to 2. repent, then were 3. baptized and 4. received the Holy Ghost.
The last one is done by the laying on of hands by one with the correct priesthood authority to do so (Acts 8:18). But I like the discussion and I look forward to part 2.
Robert Starling Hi Robert- I'm not sure that your assertion about the necessity of the laying on of hands for receiving the Holy Spirit is really accurate. It is certainly true that this was SOMETIMES the case (eg you also see Paul doing this in Acts 19:6). However, nobody laid hands on the disciples in the upper room in Acts 2 and there is no mention of the laying on of hands for the 3000 saved on the day of pentecost. If you look at Acts 10:44, there is no mention of the laying on of hands when the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles as Peter preached. Paul also clearly teaches that it is the preaching of the word and hearing with faith that leads to the filling of the Holy Spirit (eg Galatians 3:2-5). I believe the laying on of hands can be PART of this, but it is by no means THE means
Mr. Starling, if you don't mind me asking, are you LDS? (Your comment about "correct priesthood authority" was the clue)
Hi Jeff, Catholics point to 1 Peter 3:21 as justification for water baptism as being necessary for salvation. Can you help me understand this verse in reference to the protestant doctrine of baptism. Thanks for your help with this.
Douglas Mckinney just read it for yourself. Jeff doesn’t need to explain it to you. Read the book of peter in context. Read acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21, John 3:5, Romans 6:4, Mark 16:16. There is no example in scripture where baptism is not apart of the steps necessary in salvation. This is in no way taking away from what Christ did on the cross. It’s like your wife making you a huge meal. You didn’t make it...at all...but you have grab your fork and eat it. Christ isn’t going to force himself on you. Baptist believe you have to confess with your mouth and have faith to be saved. These are two acts...the same as baptism. Baptism is absolutely apart of salvation. You don’t get baptized to earn your baptism, you get baptized to partake in the gift of Christ.
we do not need to determine what is most consistent! that would be to tell the word of God what it can and connot mean, according to are reason! we need to determine what the plane reading of the text is in its context!!!!!
i am buried and raised with Christ, in baptism!!!! its a promise!!! HAAAA!!!! it is Jesus' atoning work applied to me, by Gods word!!! i am saved because i am baptised! Not apart from faith! it is just the word of God preached!! we are all saved by the preaching of Gods word?? no?? Because the preaching of Gods word, and the Holy Spirit, is what creates repentants and faith, in Jesus' work!
the text dose not say symbolic!!! you have added to Gods word! SAD FACE! you have made Gods promises a Law! this is so sad!! as a Lutheran i find this distressing! ;)
i know i am saved not because i have come to some understanding or I had a feeling or anything to do with me! i know i am saved because God told me i am, by his word, in Baptism. Not Apart from faith!!!!
read the bible and dont insert represents and symbolises everywhere!! :)
thank you for your videos i have found them very useful! :) God bless you in Jesus Christ are wonderfully merciful savior.
1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness
THE DEATH OF THE SINNER
2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ
Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin.
When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ
Water baptism doesn't save you. Just as the Lord's supper doesn't save you , both are ordinances. You must be born again to be saved. Not born once, and baptized. Born again , regenerated , given a new heart. A heart transplant must occur to be saved and you cannot perform this transplant on yourself and your pastor cannot either. The Lord Jesus Christ must.
John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
brianpaxtonPT amen
@@rickpettey8822 but the way you are saying it have it in a reverse order. Yours: baptism leads to having Jesus then leads to being saved then leads to faith. What it should be: repentance leads to putting faith in Jesus, having faith in Christ is being saved, having faith bring forth baptism as like a final stamp of commitment.
Brian Paxton
Baptism by itself does not save you, but it is commanded by God himself(Mat 28:19), and the apostles(Acts 2:38) and you have examples in Acts where people were baptized. If something is commanded and not followed is that not disobedience? Baptism plays a part in our salvation.
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
ruclips.net/video/bPpEk718Xc0/видео.html
Brian Paxton I love you and want you to know truth. 1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness
THE DEATH OF THE SINNER
2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ
Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin.
When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
I detect two different hermeneutics, one for postmillennialism and one for baptist presuppositions.
Vague, but no, same hermeneutic.
Hey i love all u guys at apologia but i think u miss-represented greg in that debate :/ i think in that debate it was a joke when he said yes baptizing the unbelieving spouses. I truly thank you guys for this message though I've recently been having some in the middle thoughts on the baptising topic listening to crosspolitic and other podcasts/ fb posts. This was great timing!
Asher Donald Thank you for the love.
it wasn't misrepresentation. That's his position. We believe he is being consistent with his Presbyterian commitments on that point.
He really said it. He really meant it.
Asher 2:23:30 for reference where the question gets asked. I could see how someone would think from his initial response that he is joking. but as he continues he makes clear that he is seriously willing to baptize unbelieving spouses. Minute mark 2:25 is pretty clear.
Ah ok i had listened to it a few months ago!
@-@ i shouldve gone back and double checked thanks for the reference times!
Gotcha yea i was wrong @-@
(Random side question. You guys know the name of that orchestral theme song used on the radio show?)
Gal. 5:1-15 said nothing about baptism. The passages were talking about conforming Gentiles to Jewish law which Paul warns against. The Bible says be baptized for the forgiveness of sin to receive the Holy Spirit Acts 10:43
34:30 time stamp
I respect Pastor Jeff immensely but on this he doesn’t realize some basic errors in his thinking... is Romans 6 addressing water baptism or baptism by the Holy Spirit? Does he think the New Testament corrects the Old Testament and thus we should use the NT to interpret the Old? Does he actually think that asking about singing the “Jesus Loves Me...” song was an emotion play instead of a question that strikes at the heart of his view of ecclesiology? I could go on...
Why is it that baptists can believe that God uses one mean to distribute His grace, that is they can believe God's Word when He says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ, but they cannot believe God's Word when He says he will also use means to bring people (without precluding infants and small children, or those with limited or not cognitive ability) into His kingdom by giving them the gift of faith in Christ through baptism? Was it Naaman's obedience that made him clean when he dipped himself into the Jordan 7 times to be cleaned of leprosy, or was it the promise of God that was connected to the instruction He gave to Naaman? Was it just the mud that Jesus used on the eyes blind man that brought him sight, or was it the power of God connected to the physical act? God chose to use that particular means to deliver his promise to cleanse Naaman. God chose to use mud on the eyes of that particular blind man. In the same way, God has declared that he has universally chosen to use baptism to distribute faith in Christ, cleanse from sin and give the Holy Spirit -- connecting His perfect life, sacrificial death, and life giving resurrection to a physical act. God instructed Moses to hold up his staff and he parted the Red Sea. Did the obedience of Moses part the sea? Did the raised staff have power to part the sea? No, God chose to demonstrate his power, his salvation to the Jews through connecting the parting of the Red Sea to the act of Moses raised staff. Why is it so hard to believe His word when He compares that parting of the sea to what happens to us in baptism, " As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 10:1-2, “For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.” The New Testament antitypes of God’s cloud of presence and the waters of the Red Sea appear when we are “born of water and the Spirit”. Indeed, there are many ways in which the Israelite crossing of the Red Sea and our baptism are similar. Now, Strawbridge proclaiming that he would baptize an unbelieving spouse was being terribly inconsistent, as certainly a a sinful older child or adult may reject the grace wrought by baptism, and it would be pointless to pretend that it would be efficacious knowing before going into it that the unbeliever was rejecting the promises given in baptism, before, during, and after. But truly, faith received by baptizing a helpless, unresisting infant is the ultimate picture of our inability to make one move toward God and His forgiveness, but that faith is truly granted 100% by God as a gift, and received as the "dead men" that scripture tells us we are before we receive Christ. What finally brought me from the baptist view to the Lutheran, biblical view was the inability of the baptists to account for why they believe their children are covered by God's grace when, according to scripture, they are conceived as sinful enemies of God, condemned to hell apart from the covering of Christs blood shed for sinners. There is nowhere in Scripture, OT or NT, where God indicates that the children of His people are to be kept in limbo outside of His kingdom, but he has included them in his kingdom whether it was through the means of circumcision, or the gift of baptism, Acts, "38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” This was not a future promise for "you and your children" but a present promise, a here and now promise that Paul gave! Infants are condemned to hell without the covering of Christ, yet so many Christians behave as if they have a temporary pass until some indefinite, subjective time when their PARENTS, not God, has decided that the child has an adult enough understanding of the Gospel, so therefore they are deemed believers. Baptists are inconsistent in their theology in that they say their children are not in the kingdom until they can come to understand the gospel by reason, yet they treat them as Christians by teaching God's Word and expecting that they believe it and follow it, even refer to themselves as a Christian family or the child themself as a Christian, and consistently have their children pray (God forbid we ask the unbelieving pagans to pray -- prayer is the language of faith!) yet at the same time hold them at arms length from the kingdom until they can make a profession that is satisfactory to them. I have watched this consistent inconsistancy in my many beloved baptist friends; a two year old consistently being asked to quote Bible verses and to pray aloud for the family, yet baptism being held off for another decade. This is so common, yet it is so contradictory and so cruel and confusing for the children -- the logical conclusion to this theology IS for the baptist parent to look for "evidence" of faith from the child, before they would baptize them. Even pastor Jeff IS preaching this same thing, while he preaches against it, it's just a softer version of it (around the 40 min. or so mark) . This is not the way God has treated the children of His people in the scriptures, and we should therefore heed His word to not forbid the little ones to come to Him, but bring them to Him, to make disciples of them by the means He has provided for them (baptism), and to continue to disciple them through teaching His Word as they grow, Matthew 28:18-20 English Standard Version (ESV), "18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” -- God's Word is efficacious; it does what it promises. Go back and reread all of the baptism verses in the Bible and believe them. God has given us an objective, tangible place to receive all of the benefits of Christ, in the sacrament of baptism, so we do not have to live in constant unsureness of checking our good works to assess our assurance of salvation, but look to what Christ has promised us in our baptism. Christ is in baptism, and Christi is the object of our faith.
give me 1 Christian that didn't teach baptismal regeneration the first 500 years let's say?
all the Ante-nicaean fathers who speak on baptism say it's the seal, it's when we are regenerated, justified, sanctified, added to the church, put on christ, are cleansed from sins, is what Jesus was talking about in John 3 being born of water and spirit, is a command etc...
only the heretics taught that we didn't have to be baptized to be saved and the Christians taught that if you deny baptism you deny the whole faith.
must be born of water and spirit...
look at the first 500 years of Christianity, they all say John 3 is water baptism.
Cornelius being filled with the spirit was a sign for the Jewish brothers brothers concerning the gentiles.
water and spirit bud, must have both.
OT type. red sea and the cloud. water and spirit.
not talking about being naturally born by your mother, it's talking about how we are born in the new covenant.
rom.6... newness of life is after death in baptism.
1 pet. 3:21.. saved by water... the new creation was after the old world died.
not so... the command to baptize was given after Jesus rose.
nice. lol. Well let's see, I can see the type, I can see the priest do it in the OT, Naaman etc... I see John baptism but his wasn't about regeneration, if Jesus commanded it before he died then John 3 could remain water baptism and the thief either had a baptism in blood like the fathers mention converted martyrs getting or maybe the thief rose when Jesus rose and those ot saints were baptized (guessing) or since he literally died and was buried with christ that could be his baptism or Jesus isn't a strictly just or legalistic and had the authority to show him mercy without it.
so in the normative sense we should get baptized.
For Christ also said, "Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers' wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Isaiah the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: "Wash you, make you clean…" Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.183
Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.183
I believe you must repent, confess and be baptized by faith to be saved. if you don't repent, don't have faith and get baptized then you just got wet. Those things prepare us for the spirit who regenerates us by his grace and mercy.
what about 1 Peter 3:21? And why was Paul baptized? Jesus didn't mention circumcision in the great commission so to call it a work like baptism is misleading. Is repentance a work?
Baptism doesn't save you?
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, NOW SAVES YOU, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 3:21
Cody Skinner We appreciate that you quoted the entirety of the verse, which, utterly destroys the idea that the waters of baptism (or act of baptism) is what saves you.
it's good to continue the thought of the Apostle rather than hanging on a few words and driving the car off the cliff.
Apologia Studios
Just to make sure I've got this verse right: Baptism saves you not because it actually removes guilt before God (washing away of dirt) but because it is functioning as an expression of saving faith (an appeal to God for a clear conscience). So saying "Baptism saves" is true in a certain figurative way, but not in the way that makes baptism necessary for salvation. Right?
+Michael Hill
I think you're spot on. I might annotate the verse like this (not to change the meaning, but only as an illustration, to highlight my interpretation of the existing text).
*Baptism, which corresponds to this, now* [as in, now that we've established the contextual groundwork in the previous verses] *saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body* [which is what water does; so it is not the act of putting water on a person which saves] *but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience* [so the appeal to God for clear conscience is the saving part, not the washing of the body]*, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ* [this last clause closes the analogy in the preceding passages, concerning the flood, the baptism, and the death and resurrection]*.*
I think this interpretation of the passage reconciles it with other passages which discuss salvation by faith without immediately mentioning baptism (Here's a good list: carm.org/verses-showing-justification-by-faith). What do you guys think about it? Am I misusing it in any way? if so, how?
Cody Skinner In addition to what Apologia and the other brothers have said, the Apostle Peter already spoke on regeneration 2 chapters prior and revealed how a man experiences ἀναγεννάω (or being born again). It's by receiving the proclaimed gospel. Check it out:
1Pet. 1:22 ¶ Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,
1Pet. 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
1Pet. 1:24 for
“All flesh is like grass
and all its glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers,
and the flower falls,
1Pet. 1:25 but the word of the Lord remains forever.”
¶ And this word is the good news that was preached to you.
lucduchien I like the way you put that! You actually said that in a way that almost exactly represents my thought pattern. We ought to harmonize the text of Scripture and submit to it, not go against what it says. Very good point!
what are you rattling on about? let those who have arguments about baptism, go and
argue with Jesus. see where that get's them. trust and obey. the simplicity of Christ.
Jesus Saves
JESUS SAID- He who believes AND is baptized will be saved. He who does not believe will be condemned Mark 16:16. His words not mine
Has part 2 been loaded?
yes. smile
You guys are all wrong.the thief on the cross was before the new testament, death burial and resurction. Baptism is not a work of the law its an act of faith col 2:11-12. There's not one verse that says baptism is a work
I agree with most of Jeff's preaching but I really dont know about this one so many scriptures stating the opposite. Mark says, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16, NKJV). Jesus told Nicodemus, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water [baptized] and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5, NKJV). Jesus further told His disciples to go everywhere preaching the gospel and making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see Matthew 28:18-20). If we read just these verses in isolation, we might think that it is impossible to be saved without being baptized. However, the Bible is clear that there is no saving virtue or merit in the act of baptism itself. Jesus is our only Savior (see John 3:16; Acts 4:12; 2 Corinthians 3:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21).
So baptism is not necessary for salvation in the sense that only Jesus can save us. He is our only Savior. And the act of baptism, itself, does not save us. But this does not mean that baptism is not important. It does not mean that we can be baptized or not as we choose-once we have believed on Jesus and accepted Him as our Savior. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). And He has commanded us to be baptized (see Matthew 28:18-20). A person who loves Jesus and accepts Him as his or her Savior, will want to follow Him in baptism.
Baptism is important, because it is a public declaration that we have accepted Jesus and are turning our back on the old life of sin and are now trusting Jesus to live a new life as a Christian. When we are placed under the water and raised back out of it, we are symbolically stating that we have died to sin, that our old life of sin has been buried, and that we have been raised to new life in Jesus-just as He died for our sins, was buried, and was raised to life again (see Romans 6:3-5).
There are a number of similarities between baptism and marriage. When a couple decides to get married, is the wedding ceremony ritual really necessary for a boyfriend and girlfriend to act like a husband and wife? No, the couple are still the same people before the wedding day. Yet, still worldwide everyone wants to have a wedding ceremony to publically announce that they are now married. The relationship of the couple is not based on the wedding, but it sure means a lot to the husband and wife. Baptism is like getting married to Jesus. It is the outward symbol of an inward change. Baptism may not be required to save you, but it sure means a lot to Jesus.
Just as marriage is the formation of a new family, so baptism is the entrance into the Christian family. In marriage one takes the name of one’s partner, and in baptism we take the name of Christ (Christian). God designs that marriage is to be an experience in which the husband’s and wife’s personal relationship is ever growing and improving throughout a lifetime. And He designs baptism to be an experience in which our personal relationship with Him grows and improves throughout our lifetime.
So, is baptism necessary for salvation? Strictly speaking, No. Because salvation comes only through the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary (see Romans 3:25; 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:20; Hebrews 9:22; Revelation 1:5; etc.). However, those whom Jesus Christ has saved will gladly follow Him in the extremely important step of baptism.
baptism is very important, yet 33 minutes into the video and you still havent taught about it
Taking scriptures out of context leads to false salvation messages.
Let me clear something up that you all need to understand before you can properly follow the word of truth. You need to know who is doing the writing - You need to know to whom the letter was being sent. You cannot take a letter destined for a certain group of believers and apply it to yourself if you do not believe the same as both the author and the receivers. Once you apply this reasoning then the word will open up to you. Therefore, what you need to do is study the author and in the book of Peter it is the apostle Peter and, in the very first verse he states to whom the letter applies. Remember the books of the new testament were letters sent to believers from the church leaders.
Question #1: What did Peter believe you 'must do' for salvation?
This is very easy to find and it's clearly written in Acts 2:38 First, after Peter finished preaching the people asked them "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter just stated what is required for remission of sins. Jesus told the disciples to preach remission of sins and they did. Peter did not go into great detail about baptism BUT anther apostle did - His name is Paul. In Romans verse 7 it identifies to whom the letter was intended. "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ." The letter is to the saints at the church in Rome. They were all saved by baptism into Jesus Christ and filled with the holy ghost. Paul himself was saved by baptism into Jesus Christ when he was baptized by Ananias. Therefore, you can clearly see here the author was saved by baptism and everyone at any of his churches he established were also saved by baptism into Jesus Christ.
The principle of learning what the author of the letter believed and to whom he was writing the letter, will lead you towards the truth of salvation. You CANNOT take scriptures out of letters and attempt to make a new salvation message! Getting back to baptism - Paul explains the process in Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? WOW! this is very telling. 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
When we are baptized and under the water we die - yes for salvation you first must die. Paul says, when under the water Jesus is with us BUT, when we come out of the water, Christ comes in us - (also called the Holy Ghost) This is the seed of life, the seed (gift) of the Father - it converts us from death to life. We are now the incorruptible seed and the children of the kingdom. We are new creatures in Christ - We are the Elect - our name is written in the book of LIFE - We are joint heirs with Christ - We are the Church, the body of Christ and Jesus is the head of the body. He knows us as we now have a relationship with the Father and the Son - we have a new family name! We shall rise and meet Jesus in the air upon his return, for only His Elect will be saved on that day because we have been converted from death to LIFE - death will NOT enter his kingdom.
Yes baptism does absolutely save you and it is clearly expressed in the bible. Anyone that teaches another salvation is not being lead by the Holy Ghost.
- but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
SalvationJourney.com
Funny how smart people can be so blind. He said baptism does not save you. That is nonsense....
Jeff I like you in almost everything but in this point you are way off, you disregard all Covenant theology, all the verses that links the abrahamic covenant and the new covenant, all the specific texts in Acts that say the promise is to you and your children, and so on. Go look Palmer O Robertson amazing work( Christ of the Covenants) or Berkohf's arguments for infant baptism. John MacArthur arguments are horrible just as his escathology, distinction between Israel(believers) and the church(believers) as two separate people of God, and his dispensational view of scripture. And by the way baptism is just a sign of the covenant pointing to the Baptism with the Holy Spirit just as flesh circuncision points to the circuncision of heart.
DeVergam baptism is a command, not an option for a beleiver. dont down play it. if you're to be fruitful you're to be cleansed. . infants aren't able to postulate their own meaning and worth. parents can and should dedicate with a prayer them to the lord out of fear and reverence of his holiness, if they choose, but infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls. the bible is clear on the issue.
DeVergam baptism is a command, not an option for a beleiver. dont down play it. if you're to be fruitful you're to be cleansed. . infants aren't able to postulate their own meaning and worth. parents can and should dedicate with a prayer them to the lord out of fear and reverence of his holiness, if they choose, but infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls. the bible is clear on the issue.
dustin Rhoads
" infant babtism is meaningless, if you expect it to save their eternal souls."
If infant baptism was meaningless then why did paul teach that it replaced circumcision (which happens to infants) and why did every single successor to the apostles teach that baby baptism was valid and encouraged? Why do we not see anyone at all in the church teaching against baby baptism for over a thousand years?
Baptism is meaningless to save anyone. Baptism does not save. It is the sign of a covenant just as baptism. And baptism is the Christian circumcision. Flesh circumcision(external) points to spiritual heart circumcision(internal/regeneration), and the same for water baptism(external) points to the baptism with the Holy Spirit(internal/regeneration). ( and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Colossians 2:11-15)
DeVergam
If baptism is meaningless then why did every single one of the apostles disciples affirm that the apostles taught them that baptism saves and why did Peter say, "baptism saves you"? (1peter 3:21). Additionally, why did every single apostalic father and early church father exegete 1peter in the same way?
So this is confusing to me. You seem to say faith is all you need, but then what is faith? Just believing in Christ and who He is? Or is faith the act of being faithful? Doing what we are told to do, and how we are told to do it? Then Grace is all we need. Doesn't that mean we all deserve to perish, but because of God's Grace, we have another option in Christ? It seems to me there is a pattern to it all, a pattern everyone followed, and baptism is clearly a part of that pattern. It seems to me the pattern is necessary. But to claim that those that are called cannot lose their salvation seems wrong to me. What is the purpose of repentance then? Is it necessary if you cannot lose salvation? James 5:19-20 seems pretty clear that this theology is wrong.
-I'm new to your theology.
In Hebrew Faith is to believe and do. Which is why marriage is a symbol, of God's relationship with humans. If we love God we'll do what he says. If you love your wife you'll be faithful to her.
@@BradleyHDez Yeah, that is my point. And if you're unfaithful, you might get 'divorced.'
That is why Repentance is so important, because we're all stupid sinners. lol
this is so hard to watch because you have idea what your talking about on baptism
where did the Christian sections come from? oh yeah catholicism
I don’t see how smoking anything is good for your body.
Baptism saves according to the Bible : 1Peter3:21
51:35 - This is a great question. The bible literally says it's for the remission of sins, for washing away sins, for salvation, etc, but you'll never know it from this man's preaching. Dear listener, you are faced with an important choice: believe this preacher or believe in the bible. There's no middle ground on baptism. I suggest obeying the Apostle Peter rather than this preacher.
Here is a scripture, probably somewhat obscure to concerned Christians, that will probably get me condemned by Pastor Jeff Durbin, but I thought I would quote it anyway.
Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordon unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
This guy had not repented. He had no sins to repent of. Now according to concerned Christians, Jesus did all of these three things at the same time all by himself. He was baptized; he said, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased; and he descended like a dove. That is certainly a God who can multi-task, all right. This is almost as impressive as when he ascended into heaven to sit at his own right hand.
The church I belong to believes that God the Father was the one who said, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's. If I went into Pastor Jeff Durbin's church and said this, he says he would kick me out and tell his followers not to ever have anything to do with me. But Pastor Jeff Durbin keeps sending these nonsensical videos to my computer. As soon as Pastor Jeff figures out how to stop sending them to me, I think we will all be happier.
I still love you but this sounds a little dispy to me.
No. It just recognizes that the new covenant is different from the old and that our practice should follow scripture rather than tradition and especially a covenantal system that calvin invented.
Jeff Durbin: "Baptism does not save you."
The apostle Peter: "Baptism now saves you." (1 peter 3:21)
Hmmmmm....
So why did the earliest Christians teach that the act of baptism was for the remission of sins and the person was regenerated after baptism? That belief is also in all the earliest Creed's....Peter said baptism now saves you but can you tell me where it was ever taught that only faith can save a person? Where was it ever taught (before Luther) and by whom that all we need is faith?
Phillip Hickman
So, I'm just going to point out that you are stating your presupposition:
The early Christians all taught that salvation was by faith (alone?).
Would you also add that it is by grace alone through faith alone? I don't want to make assumptions so for clarity's sake let me know if you would agree with that point.
Phillip Hickman
" I prefer to say we are saved by grace through faith APART from any work "
Okay, but lets go ahead and admit that saying we are saved by grace through faith *apart* from any work is the exact same thing as saying *faith alone* - which would also be known as the doctrine of Sola Fide. We should be able to agree on that point.
So above you made the claim that the early Christians all taught Sola Fide. How do you know that? Have you examined all of the early teachings and writings by the early church fathers?
Here is a question to ponder:
How do you explain that the only time the Holy Spirit inspired a biblical author to use the words *faith* and *alone* in the bible is to say that we are not saved by faith alone?
"...you see that a man is justified by works and *not by faith alone"* - James 2:24
How do you explain...
Jesus: ". . . for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matthew 12:37
"Baptism now saves you" 1 peter 3:21
"No one can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:3-5)
What if.....just what if 'to believe' also means 'to be obedient'. If we could make that connection....that to believe means to obey, would that change your mind on sola fide?
Phillip Hickman
Well, Phillip, it seems interesting that you made the claim that the church always taught Sola Fide but the odd thing is that it is a historical and verifiable fact that no one, not even one person taught Sola Fide until the Reformation.
This is the very reason sola fide is considered a 'mark' of the reformation. That isn't my opinion, that is the claim of protestant experts on christian history. I have examined the historical record as a protestant who was fervently trying to sustain my faith, ready to use any morsel I could find. In truth, sola fide just simply wasn't taught....by anyone....until the reformation. That point is historically verifiable. To point to the biblical manuscripts and say that you know sola fide is true because that is how you interpret the scriptures would be guilty of begging the question: How do you know your interpretation is the correct one?
Regarding Ephesians 1:13
Notice that you are putting forth an 'Either/Or' proposition by saying that we are saved by faith alone and that's it so it's either faith alone or nothing at all. Now the problem with that is the bible says quite a bit more on salvation than one single verse, which means all the verses must be harmonized. We can't just pick one and say...'yep, that's it...that's all we need', especially when there are verses that say the exact opposite of your claim. So the alternative is instead of an either/or proposition it is a Both/And proposition. Belief is necessary but it is not sufficient - and that is exactly why there is not even one single early christian that taught sola fide, the church never taught sola fide and the bible is full of verses saying we need to be baptized if we want to be saved and that we must be obedient if we are to be saved. The historically verifiable position is that we must believe, we must be baptized and we must be obedient.....we need all those things and that is the only message taught until the reformation.
What do you say to this verse?
"The one who *believes* in the Son has eternal life, but the one who *disobeys* the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him." John 3:36
Notice here Jesus says that the opposite of belief is disobedience. There are 2 points you should consider:
1. If the opposite of belief is disobedience then that means Belief entails Obedience and Disbelief entails disobedience.
2. The word 'believe' is in the present perfect form, which means it is an action that took place in the past and continues into the future.
Notice here that in ephesians 1:33 it used the past tense. So which is it? The protestant offers an either/or distinction. Either a past action or an ongoing action. Yet what we find in the historical teachings is that it is once again a both/and. It is both a past action and a continuation. Only the both/and proposition allows us to harmonize both passages.
This is a hand grenade in the doctrine of sola fide because verses such as john 3:16
"...that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life"
Actually reads....
"...that whosoever continues to believe (this entails obedience) in Him will have everlasting life"
Jesus says that Belief entails Obedience. In that way we can harmonize all of the passages. Faith is necessary but it's not the only thing....we must be obedient.
This is one of the reasons I found the protestant position to be rather shallow. Belief entails obedience and belief is not a single action that took place in the past...it is something that took place and continues. Consider some of these points from the early writings on baptism. Notice how they all believe that it was the act of physically being baptised that regenerated a person and saved them from sins.....a point I was entirely ignorant of as a protestant.
LETTER OF BARNABAS Concerning [baptism], .... Notice how he has described at once both the water and the cross. For these words imply, Blessed are they who, placing their trust in the cross, have gone down into the water. . . . This means that we descend into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear [of God] and trust in Jesus in our spirit [Letter of Barnabas 11 (c. A.D. 75)]
SECOND CLEMENT (trained by Peter himself) For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, *if we disobey his commandments, nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment*. . . . [H]ow can we hope to enter into the royal residence of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled? Or who shall be our advocate, unless we are possessed of works of holiness and righteousness? [Second Clement 6 (c. A.D. 80)]
ST. JUSTIN MARTYR I will also relate the way in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we were made new through Christ. . . . As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their past sins, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us *where there is water*, and *are regenerated* in the same way that we were regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Unless you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” [First Apology 61 (c. A.D. 151)].
ST. THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men being destined to receive repentance and *remission of sins through the water and washing of regeneration*, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God [To Autolycus 2:16 (c. A.D. 181)].
ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA *Being baptized*, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, *we are made immortal*. “I,” says he, “have said that you are gods, and all sons of the highest.” This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing: washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld-that is, by which we see God clearly [Instructor of Children 1:6 (c. A.D. 197)].
TERTULLIAN OF CARTHAGE *Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life*. . . . [But] a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. This is in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps . . . themselves generally live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [great] fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, have safety in no other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water! [Baptism 1 (c. A.D. 203)].
[B]aptism itself is carnal, in that we are *plunged in water*, but the effect spiritual, in that *we are freed from sins* [ibid., 7].
ST. HIPPOLYTUS OF ROME And the bishop shall lay his hand upon [the newly baptized], invoking and saying: “O Lord God, who counted these worthy of the *forgiveness of sins through the bath of regeneration*, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace [in confirmation], that they may serve you according to your will” [The Apostolic Tradition 22 (c. A.D. 215)]. ST.
CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE While I was still lying in darkness . . . I used to regard it as a difficult matter . . . that a man should be capable of being born again-a truth that divine mercy announced for my salvation-and that a man quickened to a new life in the laver of saving water should be able to put off what he had previously been; and, although retaining his bodily structure, should be changed in heart and soul. . . . But after that, *by the help of the water of new birth, the stain of former years was washed away, and a light from above, serene and pure, was infused* into my reconciled heart-after that, by the agency of the Spirit breathed from heaven, a second birth had restored me to a new man [Letters 1:3-4 (c. A.D. 246)].
ST. APHRAHAT THE PERSIAN SAGE [F]rom baptism do we receive the Spirit of Christ. For in that hour in which the priests invoke the Spirit, the heavens open and it descends and moves upon the waters [Gn 1:2]. And those that are baptized are clothed in it; for the Spirit stays aloof from those who are born of the flesh, until they come to *the new birth by water*, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . [I]n the second birth, *through baptism*, they received the Holy Spirit [Demonstrations 6:14 (c. A.D. 340)].
ST. CYRIL OF JERUSALEM *If a man does not receive baptism, he has not salvation;* except only martyrs, who even without the water receive the kingdom. For when the Savior, in redeeming the world by his cross, was pierced in the side, he shed blood and water; that men, living in times of peace, might be baptized in water, and, in times of persecution, in their own blood. For martyrdom the Savior is wont to call a baptism, saying, Can you drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? [Mk 10:38] . . . For you go down into the water, bearing your sins, but the invocation of grace, having sealed your soul, suffers you afterwards not to be swallowed up by the terrible dragon. Having gone down dead in sins, you come up quickened in righteousness [Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 (c. A.D. 350)]
Phillip Hickman
" Most baptismal regenerationist believe you didn't have to be baptized on this side on pentacost because of the thief on the cross."
Ah, well, Phillip here you betray your historical knowledge.
It is a historical fact that every single teacher taught that baptism was necessary and that it was commanded by Jesus. All of the fathers taught that baptism was a *normative necessity*. That means under normal circumstances one must be baptized. They went on to teach (and affirm that they were taught) that the person who is ignorant of this command but sincerely is living to please God is considered baptised by desire, as well as the person who dies before they can be baptized (like a person in a car accident). And the person who is martyred prior to being baptized is considered baptized by blood. Now if a person refuses to be baptized and they know that it is a command then they are disobedient. Disobedience means they do not believe. If you do not believe then.....well....you get the point.
Now, if Baptism was an absolute teaching that would mean the exceptions wouldn't matter; They would be condemned, however, that is why it has from the start been a teaching of normative necessity. We are to be obedient. To be disobedient is to disbelieve.
The thief on the cross:
Jesus asks us to do all that we can do. The thief did all that he could do...and that was all he could do.
However, if Jesus had transported him healed into the crowd he would be expected to be obedient to Christ and be baptized just like everyone else and just like every single christian teacher taught unanimously until the reformation.
Those who say Baptism is necessary for salvation would seem to imply that Jesus was lying to the thief on the cross when he said "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23). The man was never baptized. He never had communion. He simply believe that Christ was Lord, and Jesus saved him from Hell.
You need to read more. How do you know the thief was not baptized? Also, Christ was still alive and the baptism (we are baptized into his death) was not necessary for the thief just like those that came before Christ came into the world.
@@billslim9267 He was not baptized because he was hanging on the cross, dying. He was not immersed into living waters in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I read plenty. You seem to be reading something that is not there into the text, however.
Baptism is not required for salvation. Period.
I want you to baptize me....
It is sad that Jeff Durbin can be so well based in scripture and so wrong when it comes to what the word says about Baptism.
Agreed. It's such a simple Truth, the only reasonable explanation is utter spiritual blindness.
What's wrong?
do you have an explanation? or are you going to just say hes wrong. (this is coming from a paedobaptist)
Mark 16:16, Acts 9:17, 10:43-48, Gal. 3:26-27. These are just a few scriptures. There are many conversations on the subject in the Bible. If Baptism is not mentioned for salvation it is mentioned earlier or later in the same book. The early Church understood that Jesus commanded Baptism. Peter ordered it. There was no question, they did it and wrote about. Baptism did not come from the OT law. The Bible makes it very clear that the water does not save you as a removal of dirt, but we are buried and resurrected with Christ for the forgiveness of sin. Rom.6, Acts 2:38. I do not understand stand why this eve has to be an issue. The Baptism Jesus calls us to do is not from the Old Testament law. It is not works. It is for the putting on of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
Paedobaptists with no defense again 🤷🏼♂️
False
baptism is faith, it isn't a work of the Mosaic Law nor is it a work that merits. but you aren't a disciple, in the church, born again etc... if you aren't water baptized.
Moses said, "behold the salvation of the Lord", then the Lord parted the red sea. Hebrews says they were baptized in the Sea by faith. if they believed but didn't walk through would they have been saved? was the walking through the sea a meritorious work? you must have both for it to be considered biblical faith.
huh?... they passed through the sea by faith... that was their baptism. you don't stay in the sea, you come up out of death and go to the promised land.
you aren't United to christ if you haven't died with him in baptism.
give me 1 Christian that didn't teach baptismal regeneration the first 500 years let's say?
all the Ante-nicaean fathers who speak on baptism say it's the seal, it's when we are regenerated, justified, sanctified, added to the church, put on christ, are cleansed from sins, is what Jesus was talking about in John 3 being born of water and spirit, is a command etc...
only the heretics taught that we didn't have to be baptized to be saved and the Christians taught that if you deny baptism you deny the whole faith.
Sean Heath We don't prove negatives. The burden of proof is on you to show that every early Christian (or how about every early Christian writer) maintained that baptism is necessary for salvation, justification, sanctification, etc. We can show that certain church fathers didn't mention the topic in their writings. When you say that baptism is a seal, what do you take that to mean? Do you mean that it's a seal as in a ziplock bag that kinda seals in all your righteousness (like a ziplock bag seals in flavor)? Or do you mean it in the sense of Paul speaking of circumcision and Abraham in Romans 4 (a seal of the righteousness that Paul already had while uncircumcised)?
Also, would you like to have a moderated, formal, and civil debate on the topic? We could do it via Google Hangouts. We would debate the topic from Scripture.
I mean in the first 500 years all you will find is the Church universally teaching baptismal regeneration and I was asking if you knew of anyone who taught otherwise?
The Ante-nicaean fathers say the "seal" is the water and the water is the sealing of our faith.
i can show you the quotes but didn't want to blast the page up.
I wouldn't mind, but I'm not a scholar.
I need to mention something important. Baptismal regeneration doesn't necessarily mean that baptism is necessary for salvation.
I can show early church fathers speaking on justification by faith alone. Let me start by showing this: carm.org/early-church-fathers-baptism
Okay, please send me an email at drspock93@gmail.com with your name and we can set it up.
When you say seal of faith, do you take that to mean that without the seal, there is no faith?
mark. 16:16...
1 pt. 3:21...
Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and ADMITTED INTO eternal life! Tertullian (A.D. 198) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.3 pg.669
Can give more on them talking about it being our regeneration, and when connected to Titus 3:5... we are saved by regeneration.
We have faith in the gospel before choosing to be baptized, hence why we repent and show faith concretized in Baptism. These are means by which we receive salvation, justification, sanctification etc...
Those quotes are chopped... Polycarp does mention we are saved by grace and not of the works of the mosaic law and will reign with him IF we love what he loves, hates what he hates...and then quotes some things Jesus said from his sermon. hence, conditional based on love, faithfulness and obedience.
I don't know of anyone who believed in faith only in your head would save you. They were very basic, a normal relationship is loving, faithful and obedient.
1Peter 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin. Hebrews 9:22 Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness
THE DEATH OF THE SINNER
2 Timothy 2:11 If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ
Jesus died literally on the cross to pay the judicial price for our sins. The sinner died representatively through Jesus, this paying our judicial price for sin. OUR SIN CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN UNLESS we have died with Christ. We are united with Christ in His death. We have been crucified with Christ. We have died to sin.
When does God view you as United with Christ in His death? Crucified with Christ? When in your faith do you die to sin and die with Christ? Romans 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Vs 4 We have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. John 3:5 Unless one is born of water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 2 Corinthians 5:17 if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles. Brethren what shall we do? Peter said to them Repent and each one of you be baptized FOR the remission of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28: 19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.Mark 16:16 Jesus said He who believes AND is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned