I seriously doubt that Jay would ever want a bestiality/incestuous relationship with Stella, most pet owners have a very close parent-child bond with their pets.
Making a family-centric tv show and constantly writing in jokes about family members being subtly or explicitly attracted to each other is.......truly something......
Well technically Poppy Marshall and Javier Delgado can date, as he is the twins Step-Great-Grandmothers-Ex-Husband or Step-Great-Uncles-Father. And considering the age difference between the Dunphy kids love interests, and jay and Gloria, I would not be surprise if they were attracted to each other.
How annoying that they have Phil be literally the perfect father and husband most of the time yet they make him disrespect his wife by ogling another woman constantly in front of her... No wonder Claire didnt like Gloria in the first few episodes, its not Glorias fault but i can see how horrible it must feel for Claire, not only her dad is dating someone around her age that in her eyes could be a gold digger, her husband is also attracted to that woman and doesnt hide it
Yeah, this is the part about Phil that doesn't sit right with me. They could've just removed all that Gloria oogling and he would've been a much more coherent character, considering he seems to love Claire so much.
Like the whole thing with Manny was he was a bit girl crazy but making it so he couldn’t even completely act right with his female relatives just always made his characters super creepy to me
The gloria and phil "oh theyre not really related" argument falls apart because their spouses are related. Imagine your husband cheating on you with your father's wife. Thats what claire would get if phil went further with his ogling, and thats so fucked up
And phil had the nerve to complain jay doesn’t like his pathetic ass when he was married to his daughter, while hitting on his wife with the subtlety of a 14 year old for a decade...
@dylantd9189 your husband's brother marrying your sister vs your husband cheating on you with your stepmother are exactly the same thing you're so right /s
Luke & Manny never crush on each other but it's a reoccurring joke that they're like an old married couple. Even had a moment where it seems Phil (an ordained minister) accidentally married them.
A really cute way they couldve written Joe and Claire would be having Joe be this protective brother despite Joe being a 4 year old and Claire being a grown woman who was already married for years before his birth. But no I guess the major network tv show would rather have it's 12th i----t joke
lol when I saw the title I thought you were going to talk about the weird obsession the writers had with putting the Dunphy kids with really older partners. you already mentioned the gross Luke relationship but like why the hell was a 21 year old Hailey dating 45 year old man, the whole storyline was so damn nasty. don't even get me started on the losers they had Alex shagging up with, my girl did not deserve that. But yeah the incest jokes were so weird, I didnt realize just how many there were until you break down like this, my goodness.
I totally understand what you're saying about the relationships with older people, it is weird. But I think that's kind of the point. The whole show is about stereotypes and every single character is a complete stereotype of one kind of person. Luke is the dumb little brother who is babied, and when he gets older, he becomes the horny teenager. His relationship with older women is supposed to be a stereotype of teenage boys. In a different way, I feel like Haley's relationship with the older man is supposed to be a physical sign of her "maturing" and becoming an adult ready for adult experiences. This is also a stereotype of many young women who think that dating an older person makes them more mature. It is very weird, I just think it's supposed to be. I hope that makes sense :)
I think you’re right to say the Friends relationships feel incestuous. I’ve always found it weird when groups of friends all have dated or hooked up with each other at some point. It’s weird.
Me and my friends were like this and let me tell you it almost destroyed us, in so many ways. We literally had to get away from each other and eventually were able to rebuild a friendship but it’s not the same and thank god….incestuous groups are weird. It’s weird, having tension and flirt is normal, but if you normalise it in a whole friend group it’s bound to have problems
i would use the word incestuous - like at some point there has to be a line. i’m all for a friends to lovers plotline but the entire friend group? that’s fuckin nasty 🤢 like nothings off limits!
YES THIS! Someone needs to make a video essay about this! Those kids were groomed! It’s like a soon as they reached legal age the show couldn’t wait to get them all into relationships with people older than them
I only remembered Manny being into Haley and thats the weirdest one bc hes technically her uncle now? And i think he acknowledges a few times and doesnt care☹️
I get that if you first meet your new family member it’s not weird to find them attractive if ur not blood related, but if ur aware that they are your family now, you shouldn’t want to pursue it and it should just eventually fade away bc it was just physical.
Claire being the surrogate should bit be in this list. Family being surrogates is very common and it's very clear to anyone that doesn't live under a rock that itd happen through ivf.
yeah that episode rlly annoyed me tbh - it’s fine to find it strange, but everyone thinking it’d be the worst thing to ever happen is ridiculous, siblings are surrogates all the time, it’s just an alternative way to have a biological child with both parents’ DNA
If I remember.correctly, Clair was not going to be a surrogate but and egg donor to combine with Cam's sperm. That is the creeppy part, knowign your sister procreated with your SO for Mitchell, or having a wierd son-newfew for both Clair and Mitchell, yikes.
@@jamesng.6387unfortunately, based on some AITA posts. Some less financially stable siblings have asked their (usual sister) to literally sleep with their husband because IVF is too expensive. And knowing the cost, it does make me wander how often that is asked. (Most memorable is a sister who initially agreed believing they were going to use IVF but when the BIL made a move and sis was agree shocked but instead revealed they tried but couldn't afford IVF so she expected them to conceive naturally, OP backed out and the family was mad at her till she revealed that sister wasn't talking about IVF. Some people are wild)
I think Phil’s creepy’s crush is the only negative thing I would say about the series. The kids’ crushes were because they were young but Phil is a great father and husband, it doesn’t make sense. Luke being gr00med was sick. manny has so many crushes on literally every girl in his family it is so weird.
I think something like Joe being a little in love with Claire could've been cute, because as he's so young he doesn't understand that they're siblings and it's very common for small kids to think their admiration for someone older is a crush (many kids 'fall' for their babysitters, teachers, coaches etc. In reality they just admire and idolize them, and think that's what a crush is) but after having had so many incest jokes, it just made it very very weird. And they also went too far with it, with Joe showing maturity in the way he set up the date and understood that Phil was an 'obstacle', it's hard to imagine that he doesn't understand that Claire is, in fact, his sister.
my second cousin(?) (my cousins son) was INTO MEEE for like a rlly long time. from around 2 to 12, he was INTO ME and it was SO UNCOMFORTABLE. He kept trying to touch my ass or my tits, kid was strange.
that isn't necessarily sexual. when i was younger i wanted a pet cat and got a younger brother instead. so i started to address him with all sorts of kitten/cat nicknames. now it is simply a term of endearment between us. not everything is sexual
@@saumya1942 I know but the problem is that they made luke call hayley the same nickname that his father uses for his mother and daughter like I'm not judging u I'm just pointing out the fact that there was so many incest jokes in this show that u can't tell if it is one or not
I actually decided not to include that one but I do remember the episode where Jay asked Cam and Mitchell if he was “gay hot”, there was honestly so much there were some I just didn’t wanna talk about lol
@@Tronn9672So, you even included Jay's relationship with his female dog in the video 'for fun', but missed an obvious crush and it has nothing to do with the crush being gay. Aight
There are more strange family relationship jokes around: Luke and Manny. In many episodes, specially the first ones, they make jokes of how Luke and Manny seem to be more like an old married couple that fight all the time than just their uncle-nephew friendship, even Lily comparing them to her fathers relationship when they fight or how it seem that Phil married them in the episodes regarding Mitch and Cam's wedding. Claire and Dylan. Although Dylan doesn't become part of the family until the last seasons, it is hinted that he feels some sexual attraction to Claire and this might be one the reasons why she wasn't confortable with the idea of him being Hayley's partner at the start until later seasons. Basically kinda the same that was done with Phil and Gloria. There was also that episode were Dylan saw Claire in her underwear. Alex and Joe. After moving on with his crush with his sister Claire, Joe had an instant crush obsession with Alex, despite knowing she is his niece. Thinking about it, Manny and Joe are pretty similar...
We also have Gloria/Sonya with Fulgencio, their late father. As we saw in the father's day episode, Jay is pretty similar looking to Gloria's father, Fulgencio, and this might explain why both her and her sister feel attraction towards him, although non seem to realize. This might also explain why Pilar, their mother, wasn't confortable with any of them marring Jay.
arrested development was NEVER scared of too much incest (/j they were very intentional with it for a reason), and of course there’s the incest episode of community which is always … fun
@@tntboomythere’s a whole episode lol, they have a disclaimer note at the end in which they call it the “incest episode” I’m pretty sure Season 6 episode 12
Eh, I think the Community one is different because it knows how ludicrous of a concept it is- even having that end bit. Doesn't hurt that it was almost the end of the entire series so they wouldn't really have to address the fallout, either.
That jokes is also made with Luke and Manny, (you're right Manny is the problem) in the firsts seasons they have a fight because Manny told Luke he was his uncle but after that they started getting along and become closer, but as they get older there's this joke about them being a couple, in the episode where is most notorious is Mitch and Cam wedding, and Alex even noticed and laughs about it. Also I think is in the last episode of the last seasons Luke said to Manny something like: "you wrote a lot of poems but you never wrote one about me" and manny answer that all the poems that he wrote were about him...
I am so excited for this! Modern Family had an interesting impact on culture, but it barely has any video essays or critical discussions written about it.
With Manny like you said in the beginning with him being young and new to the family it makes sense how he feels but like by the end of the show they've been a family for basically 10 years damn near and yet his obvious attraction and slight flirting with every female family member except well idk dede i think thats litterally it, continues until the last season fr...like its werid man
And if my memory serves me right at the end of the show, it's revealed that Maeby might not be blood related because the mom was adopt, but then it is revealed she's related, just the grandma's or aunts child, so now they are related, but they're making out at a party and don't know it. I don't know a lot of that show is just a fever dream.
George Michael - Maeby (thought to be biological cousins; made out/kissed multiple times thinking that turned out to be related through adoption) Maeby - Annyong (niece & adopted uncle) Michael - Lindsay (adopted older sister & younger brother; raised as twins since birth and infancy) Oscar - Lucille (brother in law & sister in law; most likely fathered one of Lucille's kids) Maeby - Steve Holt (cousins) Gob - Lindsay (older brother & adopted younger sister raised as biological siblings) Gob - Amy (George Michael's uncle and ex girlfriend and Gob's fiancee) In Arrested Developments defense this was a huge aspect of the show was supposed to be seen as insane over the entire series. Modern family doing it and not really acknowledging it as insanely weird and playing it as a straight forward joke rather than for shock or gross out humor is bit off.
This is the problem I have with Arrested Development! Like, the incest plot line with George Micheal and Mabey never really goes away, even after it was rebooted, AND the whole thing between Lindsey and Michael after Lindsey finds out that she's adopted (but not really?), plus the many jokes between Micheal and Tobias. I'm also very much ignoring the elephant in the room being Buster and Lucille T-T (ignore any misspellings I'm begging)
Well, to be fair, with AD, the point is that the Bluths are all pretty messed up in one way or another, so incestous relationships actually make some sense.
Me and family have been starting to watch this show recently and we have been really enjoying it! So this seems like the perfect video to watch for me ^^ And I just enjoy watching your content- it’s fun! :D
1) Manny was really young when he had a crush on Haley and as you said Jay was strict about it. Same way Lily was just a child when she had a crush on Manny too. Joe was the same way. Kids always have crushes like this. I think it was cute. 2) When Manny had a crush on Sonia, it was just a reference to Stockholm Syndrome. So it's not out of nowhere. But i think Manny is creepy too. 3) I find Luke's relationship with a milf is weird too. But what can Claire or anyone can do about it? 4) Manny and Gloria's relationship is often awkward but show says that too. They are really dependent on each other but show makes fun of that. 5) Jay and Stella one is just gross. I find Jay's relationship with Stella so cute. Having a dog or pet feels just like that. It's not weird or anything. 6) Phil and Gloria one is really annoying. But as you said throughout the show they make sure that it was just a little crush. Nothing more. I find your views pretty forced. Feels like you just want to see it that way. Not everything is about incest.
The Claire and Luke one makes no sense. Claire didn’t even know that the guy was Luke so it can’t even count as incest so stfu and actually watch the show
exactly!!! and the scene towards the ending just shows Claire being uncomfortable is probably because she remembers the pic her instructor showed her prior 🤷🏻♀️
The only healthy couple within the show was Gloria and Jay they were both very secure with each other with maybe one or two strange incidents rather than all of the other couples which all seemed to have toxic relationships
@shadesslitz i mean, I don't fully believe so but. Cam is a drama loving hypochondriac who acts out like a child. And mitch is an emotionless man who's scared if commitment and crushes dreams.
I would say, for the younger cast members, the crushes kind of made sense. It's not uncommon for young kids to have puppy crushes on older family members/friends of the family.
yeah but the situation with joes crush on claire... is not far fetched fro reality, kids do that sometimes, the crush manny had on his aunt was a joke about stockholm syndrome, it wasnt serious and im pretty sure it never came up again after this one episode....
for Joe and Claire, the weird things for me is not that they write it, but just that they completly ignore the fact that she was her sister, like, it never mentions. I don't know, it just sounds as if they forget it...
Ok you kind of pushed it with stella and jay. He was just a dog dad 😅 its weird that you thought it was even a little incestuous. You should have replaced that with Haley and Luke. The scene where he tells her “remind me to never date you” like that was nasty and so cringe.
while the jokes are really weird, especially the ones with the blood related family members. i thought most of the jokes were funny it’s just a bit out of place for a show like modern family that’s very wholesome and ends nearly every episode with a heartwarming message
I personally think little kids having crushes on their cousins is really common, i didn't have one but many girls really talked about in playschool about having crush on their cousin, bc they are technically first interaction they have with opposite sex or same sex (depend on ur preference) so little affection at first is normal and almost all people grow out of it, what of course i dont like is phil and gloria one and the later things they did with manny, they really went wrong with that character. Actually gloria and manny storyline is very common, its not sexual in any sense many women project the ideal men that they think should exist onto their sons , its very common in many households sometimes it get weird sometimes it doesn't, so ig that was realistic but still little weird but ig they hanndled it nicely in later seasons.
4 months late but cam had a crush on pretty much all the Pritchetts: mitchell (duh) Claire almost having a baby together Jay because that one coal digger episode where Jay asks him if he thinks he’s attractive and cam says he would date Jay if he saw him in a gay bar (or smth) and also Phil because cam likes dominate men apparently
This is a great series people just lack media literacy,you should do How I met your mother next since they did an episode about this dynamic too but it was more silly than serious.
I clicked on this bc although the show is hilarious, I know they’ve had Manny crush on Haley for a while and Gloria kissed Phil on the kiss cam. She treated it like no big deal but not only did you cheat on Jay, it was with his son-in-law.
Maybe this is just me, but I think the incest jokes in Modern Family are funny. I also loved the George Michael and Maeby thing in Arrested Development. There's no harm, and there's no need to take everything so seriously.
Yeah. I mean a lot of comedy is based around absurdity, and there isn't really a way to argue that incest isn't an absurd concept without looking a little odd yourself.
I think these are normal depictions of real life scenarios. A lot of friends that I have have been attracted to their family members but they do not act upon it because it would be very wrong. yes, a lot of the jokes are weird but i honestly like the humour because nobody is ever doing anything so wrong. -the manny to sonia attraction thing is backed by science- it was found that siblings who did not grow up alongside each other were found to have been attracted to each other or felt something missing in their life. -With joe and lily, maybe even manny, it is normal to have crushes on relatives as children. Even I had crushes on relatives as a five year old but obviously grew out of it. -luke dating claire's friend is very weird however you cannot really blame him. these situations happen often in real life and it's predatory of claire's friend but he is 20 and claire can't really do anything about it
Manny's crushes are definitely weird. I think there was also an instance of Manny being attracted to Claire. (Dylan also has a crush on Claire). But I can forgive the others as just stupid jokes caused by misunderstandings rather than any real attraction. Arrested Development and Community definitely lean into the incest.
Idk if most of these incest jokes are intentional since they boil down to playing off how attractive Gloria is, or small kids being small kids. Doesn’t make it any less weird though.
At this point, it just feels like youre sucking out any and every point to include in this argument. There are some key disturbing relationships, the claire and luke thing isnt even relevant, and then it just ends into hyperbole. Phil and gloria, claire and joe, manny and haley, manny and sonia are annoying and disturbing, but its just pushing in simecases
I use to watch this show a lot when I was younger and I haven’t seen it in a long time so I don’t remember all the episodes but I remembered that this show was weird like that😭
What about Alex and Manny. Through the whole show there are a few times when Manny likes Alex, not just the train bit. Like when they go to that NBA game and Manny tries to make a move on Alex. Great video either way :)
As far as recommending shows to watch in general, those are The Villains of Valley View and Secrets of Sulphur Springs! The Villains of Valley View is honestly not only the closest thing to a decent current running live action kidcom that HASN'T gotten cancelled yet, it's a better Disney Channel sitcom than Jessie, A.N.T. Farm, Sonny With a Chance, Shake It Up, Jonas or Hannah Montana. And I like all those shows...to an extent. Varying degrees of extent but extent nonetheless. There are some things I would've done differently like writing WHEN it's neccesary for Hartley to find out the secret or the antogonists, but it's personally a relief from all the badly acted/written sitcoms from Disney or Nickelodeon that still get renewed for more seasons. Secrets of Sulphur Springs is the channel's first attempt at a drama since the early 2000s and does a great job keeping the audience's attention and keeping them guessing while not talking down to them! They may not have the same amount of shock value or hilarious jokes that Amphibia and The Owl House are famous for, but compared to so many live action kids shows from the 2020s, it's a step above the rest! It's one of the few shows for any age group that knows what it wants to be and sticks with it all the way through!
the thing of manny liking his song aunt didn’t necessarily come out of no where(not the incest tho, the liking someone you’ve known randomly) . It happens when you’ve known someone for a while and the one random day you see the person looking really good and then you suddenly develop a liking to the person.
I'd argue Jay is the most well rounded, relatable character. he for the most part, always kept a level head (I haven't seen the series in awhile don't come for me).
I think one reason Incestuous behavior is played off as a joke constantly is because the writers don't want even the fans to even entertain the idea of serious shipping between *blood relatives* The Crush of Lilly on Manny not withstanding Lilly is straight up adopted, by the son of Mannie's Stepdad They are in no way actually related, they're a member of the same family, so you know... don't, but The Adopted Child of your Step Uncle isn't Incest, Incest is firstly a biological term and it's about the shared genome, the horrible family dynamics that would come anyway with people who are part of the same family already in case of anything going wrong are more the problem with those 2 in particular Same with Phil and Gloria, technically it's not biologically wrong, the cluster f*ck that would be Cheating on Clair with the new wife of Clair's Father, Technically Step mother to Clair and Mother to Clair's half Brother would just be horrendous Same true also with Manny and Haley, again biologically speaking nothing wrong with that, socially speaking (near) unacceptable But then again *this is a TV show* and Incest brings cheap laughs
I feel like maybe the could have changed the Joe and Claire thing to be just more of Joe wanting to be more with Claire than with Phil. It could have been that he liked her more than Phil or just wanted more attention from her. The crush thing was pretty weird for a kid
I think your use of incestuous to the Friends friend group makes sense. in high school when I had a friend group who was always hooking up with each other, we called an incestuous friend group too
but thats the whole point of "MODERN" family , they all take each other for they are as an individual and not under the pretext of the label of the relation they share . its pretty given that its a weird mix of family with age gaps and relationship dynamics that are not obvious
@@Loola345 he was very important in psych and he had these theories about basically saying that everything you do is based off of sexual urges, and basically said that people wanna have sex with their parents which is clearly a flawed ideology.
Words have multiple definitions. Being ignorant does not make someone else wrong. “(of human relations generally) excessively close and resistant to outside influence. "the incestuous nature of literary journalism"”
I always thought manny and gloria's sister was just his way of saving himself by making her purposely unconfortable, that it wasn't for real. now i just think he is creepy
Yeah, I was just watching a few episodes the other day and there was definitely some weirdness. I think was a Gloria and Luke dynamic. I'm not even sure. Ive seen the series a few times and it was more cringe than I remembered.
You forgot the wedding episode (Mitch and Cam) where they joked about Luke and Manny getting married and arguing like an old couple. Also, Jay and Rebarka 😂
I've literally never understood the idea of "they're not blood related so it's not wrong" it's the kind of excuse that doesn't work, the only time i could even say some form of defense for incest is if in a situation where you were dating someone and your and that person's parents married not knowing they were related to who was dating who first. Or better way of saying it, the parents not knowing they were related to their kid's date. That's it, and i think it goes without saying that if you find out your related to someone too but you both were dating before hand, you should cut it off. And if your not blood related but related by legal ways like brother/sister in law or whatever, adoption or step who cares, it's weird. it may be a little less awkward if you do anything but that never changes the fact it's wrong. And no it doesn't matter how hot they are, if your soooo tempted to sleep with a relative, you should probably try and stay away from them or at least if you know you can't control yourself. yes i will read into things too much and voice my opinions.
I never got past the first couple seasons cause it kept getting worse and worse and harder to “ignore” and its just like??? Whyyyy are you exposing so many people to the idea that thats okay. 🤮
Community def has this but I always thought it was weird they kinda banned Shirley from dating anyone in the group. The closest she gets is Chang but Jeff couldve done something with her idk
If Gloria and Phil is incest bc they are mother in law and son in law .. wouldn't Phil and Claire be incest? Bc Phil is the son in law to Claire's dad so Claire's is his sister.
something that i always hated was that they painted phil’s character out to be a really devoted husband and he clearly really adored his wife but they also built in the storyline of him constantly checking out other women literally in front of claire’s face and the one episode where phil told that guy he went to college with that he was married to gloria instead of claire. to me it makes no sense to make a character trait in one of your characters, and then create a storyline that goes directly against what you wrote the character to be.
RUclips said I can’t use the “I” word anymore 🙄
😞
🙄
u shouldn’t be allowed to say anything anymore. y’all love to look too much into things
Someone had to say it though, damn
Get used to censorship
It sucks 🤬
I seriously doubt that Jay would ever want a bestiality/incestuous relationship with Stella, most pet owners have a very close parent-child bond with their pets.
Well said
Haven’t even had a chance to get a minute in yet and I see this. If this is a genuine argument they try to make istg I’ll throw my phone- 💀
@@maxwellgrimsleydid you throw it? 😂
yeah that one was a bit of a stretch.
@@OGseoulite YUP AND SCREAMED TOO
Making a family-centric tv show and constantly writing in jokes about family members being subtly or explicitly attracted to each other is.......truly something......
Atleast most of them aren't blood related but still a strange choice to make
Actually when you have to say "at least" it's already fucked up 💀
@@amberwingtundrawing776lmaoooo
Well technically Poppy Marshall and Javier Delgado can date, as he is the twins Step-Great-Grandmothers-Ex-Husband or Step-Great-Uncles-Father. And considering the age difference between the Dunphy kids love interests, and jay and Gloria, I would not be surprise if they were attracted to each other.
It's the whole point of the show though, them being too relax
How annoying that they have Phil be literally the perfect father and husband most of the time yet they make him disrespect his wife by ogling another woman constantly in front of her... No wonder Claire didnt like Gloria in the first few episodes, its not Glorias fault but i can see how horrible it must feel for Claire, not only her dad is dating someone around her age that in her eyes could be a gold digger, her husband is also attracted to that woman and doesnt hide it
Yeah, this is the part about Phil that doesn't sit right with me. They could've just removed all that Gloria oogling and he would've been a much more coherent character, considering he seems to love Claire so much.
Phil is overrated as a character tbh
This kind of bothered me too, but at the same time, they explained this by pointing out Phil’s “type” being women of color.
Dont forget though gloria kissed phil
I always say it woudlve been more in character that he never noticed how hot Gloria was because he was so in love with Claire
Like the whole thing with Manny was he was a bit girl crazy but making it so he couldn’t even completely act right with his female relatives just always made his characters super creepy to me
when that episode with Gloria’s sister came out I was done with him like wtf
The gloria and phil "oh theyre not really related" argument falls apart because their spouses are related. Imagine your husband cheating on you with your father's wife. Thats what claire would get if phil went further with his ogling, and thats so fucked up
And phil had the nerve to complain jay doesn’t like his pathetic ass when he was married to his daughter, while hitting on his wife with the subtlety of a 14 year old for a decade...
There's been many instances where a husband's brother and wife's sister get together...
It's not that strange.
Morally wrong sure. Still not actually incest.
@@dylantd9189That's different.
@dylantd9189 your husband's brother marrying your sister vs your husband cheating on you with your stepmother are exactly the same thing you're so right /s
Luke & Manny never crush on each other but it's a reoccurring joke that they're like an old married couple. Even had a moment where it seems Phil (an ordained minister) accidentally married them.
Wasnt there an episode where they were thinking about having a 4s0me together with 2 other women 😭😭
@@Rye_BreadGodwait wtf remind me of that bc what???😭
A really cute way they couldve written Joe and Claire would be having Joe be this protective brother despite Joe being a 4 year old and Claire being a grown woman who was already married for years before his birth. But no I guess the major network tv show would rather have it's 12th i----t joke
Omg this would have been so cute!!! Now I’m kinda mad this isn’t what we got. It would have been so perfect.
lol when I saw the title I thought you were going to talk about the weird obsession the writers had with putting the Dunphy kids with really older partners. you already mentioned the gross Luke relationship but like why the hell was a 21 year old Hailey dating 45 year old man, the whole storyline was so damn nasty. don't even get me started on the losers they had Alex shagging up with, my girl did not deserve that. But yeah the incest jokes were so weird, I didnt realize just how many there were until you break down like this, my goodness.
OMG YES WHAT THE HELL WAS UP WITH THAT????
I totally understand what you're saying about the relationships with older people, it is weird. But I think that's kind of the point. The whole show is about stereotypes and every single character is a complete stereotype of one kind of person. Luke is the dumb little brother who is babied, and when he gets older, he becomes the horny teenager. His relationship with older women is supposed to be a stereotype of teenage boys. In a different way, I feel like Haley's relationship with the older man is supposed to be a physical sign of her "maturing" and becoming an adult ready for adult experiences. This is also a stereotype of many young women who think that dating an older person makes them more mature. It is very weird, I just think it's supposed to be. I hope that makes sense :)
I think you’re right to say the Friends relationships feel incestuous. I’ve always found it weird when groups of friends all have dated or hooked up with each other at some point. It’s weird.
Sounds like my friend group tbh
@@Michaela7071same, especially throughout high school
May be weird but it happens more than you think
Me and my friends were like this and let me tell you it almost destroyed us, in so many ways. We literally had to get away from each other and eventually were able to rebuild a friendship but it’s not the same and thank god….incestuous groups are weird. It’s weird, having tension and flirt is normal, but if you normalise it in a whole friend group it’s bound to have problems
i would use the word incestuous - like at some point there has to be a line. i’m all for a friends to lovers plotline but the entire friend group? that’s fuckin nasty 🤢 like nothings off limits!
ALSO all the kids have relationships with insane age gaps, Manny and older women, Hailey and her older boyfriends, even Luke and Alex
YES THIS! Someone needs to make a video essay about this! Those kids were groomed! It’s like a soon as they reached legal age the show couldn’t wait to get them all into relationships with people older than them
I only remembered Manny being into Haley and thats the weirdest one bc hes technically her uncle now? And i think he acknowledges a few times and doesnt care☹️
he's like 10 chill
@@ratpacks9781It continues for longer, and there’s an episode where he’s at least 16 and tricks her into kissing him.
@@ratpacks9781 I didn't get crushes on my new family when I was 10 but that's just me. Maybe I'm weird idk
@@amberwingtundrawing776there no blood related and hes 10 and even in teenage years its normal to have a crush
I get that if you first meet your new family member it’s not weird to find them attractive if ur not blood related, but if ur aware that they are your family now, you shouldn’t want to pursue it and it should just eventually fade away bc it was just physical.
Claire being the surrogate should bit be in this list. Family being surrogates is very common and it's very clear to anyone that doesn't live under a rock that itd happen through ivf.
yeah that episode rlly annoyed me tbh - it’s fine to find it strange, but everyone thinking it’d be the worst thing to ever happen is ridiculous, siblings are surrogates all the time, it’s just an alternative way to have a biological child with both parents’ DNA
If I remember.correctly, Clair was not going to be a surrogate but and egg donor to combine with Cam's sperm. That is the creeppy part, knowign your sister procreated with your SO for Mitchell, or having a wierd son-newfew for both Clair and Mitchell, yikes.
@@jamesng.6387unfortunately, based on some AITA posts. Some less financially stable siblings have asked their (usual sister) to literally sleep with their husband because IVF is too expensive. And knowing the cost, it does make me wander how often that is asked. (Most memorable is a sister who initially agreed believing they were going to use IVF but when the BIL made a move and sis was agree shocked but instead revealed they tried but couldn't afford IVF so she expected them to conceive naturally, OP backed out and the family was mad at her till she revealed that sister wasn't talking about IVF. Some people are wild)
@@salvadorleggs8671literally no normal person looks at it like this
I think Phil’s creepy’s crush is the only negative thing I would say about the series. The kids’ crushes were because they were young but Phil is a great father and husband, it doesn’t make sense. Luke being gr00med was sick. manny has so many crushes on literally every girl in his family it is so weird.
Manny was a grown man (or in his late teens i think?) tho when he was crushing on his aunt 💀💀💀
@@justmarlenyeah manny is inexcusable, he’s creepy asf 😂😂
I think something like Joe being a little in love with Claire could've been cute, because as he's so young he doesn't understand that they're siblings and it's very common for small kids to think their admiration for someone older is a crush (many kids 'fall' for their babysitters, teachers, coaches etc. In reality they just admire and idolize them, and think that's what a crush is) but after having had so many incest jokes, it just made it very very weird. And they also went too far with it, with Joe showing maturity in the way he set up the date and understood that Phil was an 'obstacle', it's hard to imagine that he doesn't understand that Claire is, in fact, his sister.
my second cousin(?) (my cousins son) was INTO MEEE for like a rlly long time. from around 2 to 12, he was INTO ME and it was SO UNCOMFORTABLE. He kept trying to touch my ass or my tits, kid was strange.
i never realized how much they entertained this joke 😬
Or having luke calling hayley sexual nicknames while they're brother and sister like its weird how many times they make him call her kitten
that isn't necessarily sexual. when i was younger i wanted a pet cat and got a younger brother instead. so i started to address him with all sorts of kitten/cat nicknames. now it is simply a term of endearment between us. not everything is sexual
@@saumya1942 I know but the problem is that they made luke call hayley the same nickname that his father uses for his mother and daughter like I'm not judging u I'm just pointing out the fact that there was so many incest jokes in this show that u can't tell if it is one or not
You forgot about cam’s mum and Mitch, and the jokes about her being so touchy to him
you forgot about cam having a crush on phil on one episode
I actually decided not to include that one but I do remember the episode where Jay asked Cam and Mitchell if he was “gay hot”, there was honestly so much there were some I just didn’t wanna talk about lol
@@Tronn9672hahaha came here to read this explination. Cam into Phill was kind of gross too, but yeah, a bit less incestous 🫥
@@Tronn9672So, you even included Jay's relationship with his female dog in the video 'for fun', but missed an obvious crush and it has nothing to do with the crush being gay. Aight
There are more strange family relationship jokes around:
Luke and Manny. In many episodes, specially the first ones, they make jokes of how Luke and Manny seem to be more like an old married couple that fight all the time than just their uncle-nephew friendship, even Lily comparing them to her fathers relationship when they fight or how it seem that Phil married them in the episodes regarding Mitch and Cam's wedding.
Claire and Dylan. Although Dylan doesn't become part of the family until the last seasons, it is hinted that he feels some sexual attraction to Claire and this might be one the reasons why she wasn't confortable with the idea of him being Hayley's partner at the start until later seasons. Basically kinda the same that was done with Phil and Gloria. There was also that episode were Dylan saw Claire in her underwear.
Alex and Joe. After moving on with his crush with his sister Claire, Joe had an instant crush obsession with Alex, despite knowing she is his niece. Thinking about it, Manny and Joe are pretty similar...
We also have Gloria/Sonya with Fulgencio, their late father. As we saw in the father's day episode, Jay is pretty similar looking to Gloria's father, Fulgencio, and this might explain why both her and her sister feel attraction towards him, although non seem to realize. This might also explain why Pilar, their mother, wasn't confortable with any of them marring Jay.
Manny was clearly written to be weird. It reminds me of how Max from George Lopez was written to have a crush on his cousin Veronica.
😂😂
arrested development was NEVER scared of too much incest (/j they were very intentional with it for a reason), and of course there’s the incest episode of community which is always … fun
Who was the incest in community
@@tntboomythere’s a whole episode lol, they have a disclaimer note at the end in which they call it the “incest episode” I’m pretty sure
Season 6 episode 12
Eh, I think the Community one is different because it knows how ludicrous of a concept it is- even having that end bit. Doesn't hurt that it was almost the end of the entire series so they wouldn't really have to address the fallout, either.
It makes sense in Arrested Development, because that show isn't meant to be a wholesome show the way Modern Family was supposed to be.
i think the point of the manny and sonia thing was like a stockholm syndrome thing, but still weird
That jokes is also made with Luke and Manny, (you're right Manny is the problem) in the firsts seasons they have a fight because Manny told Luke he was his uncle but after that they started getting along and become closer, but as they get older there's this joke about them being a couple, in the episode where is most notorious is Mitch and Cam wedding, and Alex even noticed and laughs about it. Also I think is in the last episode of the last seasons Luke said to Manny something like: "you wrote a lot of poems but you never wrote one about me" and manny answer that all the poems that he wrote were about him...
I am so excited for this! Modern Family had an interesting impact on culture, but it barely has any video essays or critical discussions written about it.
All of this in retrospective.. just seems like a convenient excuse to sexualise Sofia Vergara, which is depressing.
With Manny like you said in the beginning with him being young and new to the family it makes sense how he feels but like by the end of the show they've been a family for basically 10 years damn near and yet his obvious attraction and slight flirting with every female family member except well idk dede i think thats litterally it, continues until the last season fr...like its werid man
I never liked the Manny/ Haley or Lily/Manny jokes
i was SO creeped out by luke and the older woman’s relationship like I hated the whole thing
This made me remember that arc with George Michael in Arrested Development where he had a very big crush on his cousin Maeby
And if my memory serves me right at the end of the show, it's revealed that Maeby might not be blood related because the mom was adopt, but then it is revealed she's related, just the grandma's or aunts child, so now they are related, but they're making out at a party and don't know it. I don't know a lot of that show is just a fever dream.
Yeah and I remember Lindsay saying that she was adopted and tries to get with Michael.
@@Kristianalexis1 That seen put me into shock. They were raised as twins since birth iirc but still tried that
@@user-jn4oe9sb5z I know. It’s still gross either way even if she was adopted
George Michael - Maeby (thought to be biological cousins; made out/kissed multiple times thinking that turned out to be related through adoption)
Maeby - Annyong (niece & adopted uncle)
Michael - Lindsay (adopted older sister & younger brother; raised as twins since birth and infancy)
Oscar - Lucille (brother in law & sister in law; most likely fathered one of Lucille's kids)
Maeby - Steve Holt (cousins)
Gob - Lindsay (older brother & adopted younger sister raised as biological siblings)
Gob - Amy (George Michael's uncle and ex girlfriend and Gob's fiancee)
In Arrested Developments defense this was a huge aspect of the show was supposed to be seen as insane over the entire series. Modern family doing it and not really acknowledging it as insanely weird and playing it as a straight forward joke rather than for shock or gross out humor is bit off.
This is the problem I have with Arrested Development! Like, the incest plot line with George Micheal and Mabey never really goes away, even after it was rebooted, AND the whole thing between Lindsey and Michael after Lindsey finds out that she's adopted (but not really?), plus the many jokes between Micheal and Tobias. I'm also very much ignoring the elephant in the room being Buster and Lucille T-T (ignore any misspellings I'm begging)
so true
Well, to be fair, with AD, the point is that the Bluths are all pretty messed up in one way or another, so incestous relationships actually make some sense.
Me and family have been starting to watch this show recently and we have been really enjoying it! So this seems like the perfect video to watch for me ^^
And I just enjoy watching your content- it’s fun! :D
Haha OMG thanks so much!!
Those scenes with Joe are so uncomfortable, he looks to be 3 or 4...
1) Manny was really young when he had a crush on Haley and as you said Jay was strict about it. Same way Lily was just a child when she had a crush on Manny too. Joe was the same way. Kids always have crushes like this. I think it was cute.
2) When Manny had a crush on Sonia, it was just a reference to Stockholm Syndrome. So it's not out of nowhere. But i think Manny is creepy too.
3) I find Luke's relationship with a milf is weird too. But what can Claire or anyone can do about it?
4) Manny and Gloria's relationship is often awkward but show says that too. They are really dependent on each other but show makes fun of that.
5) Jay and Stella one is just gross. I find Jay's relationship with Stella so cute. Having a dog or pet feels just like that. It's not weird or anything.
6) Phil and Gloria one is really annoying. But as you said throughout the show they make sure that it was just a little crush. Nothing more.
I find your views pretty forced. Feels like you just want to see it that way. Not everything is about incest.
The Claire and Luke one makes no sense. Claire didn’t even know that the guy was Luke so it can’t even count as incest so stfu and actually watch the show
exactly!!! and the scene towards the ending just shows Claire being uncomfortable is probably because she remembers the pic her instructor showed her prior 🤷🏻♀️
The only healthy couple within the show was Gloria and Jay they were both very secure with each other with maybe one or two strange incidents rather than all of the other couples which all seemed to have toxic relationships
How was Cam and Mitch toxic?
@shadesslitz i mean, I don't fully believe so but. Cam is a drama loving hypochondriac who acts out like a child. And mitch is an emotionless man who's scared if commitment and crushes dreams.
@@shadesslitzCam is really manipulative
@@kaycollarfeildIn that case, they parallel each other. Kind of like Claire always saying no is similar to Jay’s behaviour.
I would say, for the younger cast members, the crushes kind of made sense. It's not uncommon for young kids to have puppy crushes on older family members/friends of the family.
That episode where Claire looked at Luke's abs has always made me uncomfortable
yeah but the situation with joes crush on claire... is not far fetched fro reality, kids do that sometimes, the crush manny had on his aunt was a joke about stockholm syndrome, it wasnt serious and im pretty sure it never came up again after this one episode....
for Joe and Claire, the weird things for me is not that they write it, but just that they completly ignore the fact that she was her sister, like, it never mentions. I don't know, it just sounds as if they forget it...
Omg I can't believe I forgot how WILD this show was. Also please make more videos about Modern Family I loved this one
Ok you kind of pushed it with stella and jay. He was just a dog dad 😅 its weird that you thought it was even a little incestuous. You should have replaced that with Haley and Luke. The scene where he tells her “remind me to never date you” like that was nasty and so cringe.
The Manny/sonia thing was a joke on Stockholm syndrome. Explained. Still weird, but had a reason
Also big one, Mitchell and Cams mom, that one was really weird
man too many arrows on manny
I literally just finished binge watching this last night lmao what a small world
Man sorry i’m trying to be serious but luke saying you mother and i want one night off made me laugh out loud. Idc this show is funny
while the jokes are really weird, especially the ones with the blood related family members. i thought most of the jokes were funny it’s just a bit out of place for a show like modern family that’s very wholesome and ends nearly every episode with a heartwarming message
I personally think little kids having crushes on their cousins is really common, i didn't have one but many girls really talked about in playschool about having crush on their cousin, bc they are technically first interaction they have with opposite sex or same sex (depend on ur preference) so little affection at first is normal and almost all people grow out of it, what of course i dont like is phil and gloria one and the later things they did with manny, they really went wrong with that character. Actually gloria and manny storyline is very common, its not sexual in any sense many women project the ideal men that they think should exist onto their sons , its very common in many households sometimes it get weird sometimes it doesn't, so ig that was realistic but still little weird but ig they hanndled it nicely in later seasons.
I haven't watched the video or read any comments but that arrow between Jay and Stella seems like a bit of a stretch
There was the time when Cam had a crush on Phil and thought of him as sexy because he called Cam princess.
The Joe/Claire and Lily/ Manny crushes were so disturbing to me.
4 months late but cam had a crush on pretty much all the Pritchetts: mitchell (duh) Claire almost having a baby together Jay because that one coal digger episode where Jay asks him if he thinks he’s attractive and cam says he would date Jay if he saw him in a gay bar (or smth) and also Phil because cam likes dominate men apparently
This is a great series people just lack media literacy,you should do How I met your mother next since they did an episode about this dynamic too but it was more silly than serious.
I clicked on this bc although the show is hilarious, I know they’ve had Manny crush on Haley for a while and Gloria kissed Phil on the kiss cam. She treated it like no big deal but not only did you cheat on Jay, it was with his son-in-law.
Maybe this is just me, but I think the incest jokes in Modern Family are funny. I also loved the George Michael and Maeby thing in Arrested Development. There's no harm, and there's no need to take everything so seriously.
Yeah. I mean a lot of comedy is based around absurdity, and there isn't really a way to argue that incest isn't an absurd concept without looking a little odd yourself.
hollywood is so nasty. seeing all of these examples back to back to back is insane. i didn’t realize just how many weird storylines there were.
I think these are normal depictions of real life scenarios. A lot of friends that I have have been attracted to their family members but they do not act upon it because it would be very wrong. yes, a lot of the jokes are weird but i honestly like the humour because nobody is ever doing anything so wrong.
-the manny to sonia attraction thing is backed by science- it was found that siblings who did not grow up alongside each other were found to have been attracted to each other or felt something missing in their life.
-With joe and lily, maybe even manny, it is normal to have crushes on relatives as children. Even I had crushes on relatives as a five year old but obviously grew out of it.
-luke dating claire's friend is very weird however you cannot really blame him. these situations happen often in real life and it's predatory of claire's friend but he is 20 and claire can't really do anything about it
Manny's crushes are definitely weird. I think there was also an instance of Manny being attracted to Claire. (Dylan also has a crush on Claire).
But I can forgive the others as just stupid jokes caused by misunderstandings rather than any real attraction.
Arrested Development and Community definitely lean into the incest.
Idk if most of these incest jokes are intentional since they boil down to playing off how attractive Gloria is, or small kids being small kids. Doesn’t make it any less weird though.
At this point, it just feels like youre sucking out any and every point to include in this argument. There are some key disturbing relationships, the claire and luke thing isnt even relevant, and then it just ends into hyperbole. Phil and gloria, claire and joe, manny and haley, manny and sonia are annoying and disturbing, but its just pushing in simecases
I use to watch this show a lot when I was younger and I haven’t seen it in a long time so I don’t remember all the episodes but I remembered that this show was weird like that😭
What about Alex and Manny. Through the whole show there are a few times when Manny likes Alex, not just the train bit. Like when they go to that NBA game and Manny tries to make a move on Alex. Great video either way :)
As far as recommending shows to watch in general, those are The Villains of Valley View and Secrets of Sulphur Springs! The Villains of Valley View is honestly not only the closest thing to a decent current running live action kidcom that HASN'T gotten cancelled yet, it's a better Disney Channel sitcom than Jessie, A.N.T. Farm, Sonny With a Chance, Shake It Up, Jonas or Hannah Montana. And I like all those shows...to an extent. Varying degrees of extent but extent nonetheless. There are some things I would've done differently like writing WHEN it's neccesary for Hartley to find out the secret or the antogonists, but it's personally a relief from all the badly acted/written sitcoms from Disney or Nickelodeon that still get renewed for more seasons.
Secrets of Sulphur Springs is the channel's first attempt at a drama since the early 2000s and does a great job keeping the audience's attention and keeping them guessing while not talking down to them! They may not have the same amount of shock value or hilarious jokes that Amphibia and The Owl House are famous for, but compared to so many live action kids shows from the 2020s, it's a step above the rest! It's one of the few shows for any age group that knows what it wants to be and sticks with it all the way through!
Thanks for the recommendation!
the thing of manny liking his song aunt didn’t necessarily come out of no where(not the incest tho, the liking someone you’ve known randomly) . It happens when you’ve known someone for a while and the one random day you see the person looking really good and then you suddenly develop a liking to the person.
I'd argue Jay is the most well rounded, relatable character. he for the most part, always kept a level head (I haven't seen the series in awhile don't come for me).
I recently have been watching over modern family and the jokes are so weird especially between the kids and adults. Thank you for this video❤️
I think one reason Incestuous behavior is played off as a joke constantly is because the writers don't want even the fans to even entertain the idea of serious shipping between *blood relatives*
The Crush of Lilly on Manny not withstanding
Lilly is straight up adopted, by the son of Mannie's Stepdad
They are in no way actually related, they're a member of the same family, so you know... don't, but The Adopted Child of your Step Uncle isn't Incest, Incest is firstly a biological term and it's about the shared genome, the horrible family dynamics that would come anyway with people who are part of the same family already in case of anything going wrong are more the problem with those 2 in particular
Same with Phil and Gloria, technically it's not biologically wrong, the cluster f*ck that would be Cheating on Clair with the new wife of Clair's Father, Technically Step mother to Clair and Mother to Clair's half Brother would just be horrendous
Same true also with Manny and Haley, again biologically speaking nothing wrong with that, socially speaking (near) unacceptable
But then again *this is a TV show* and Incest brings cheap laughs
I would recommend this show to Sigmund Freud he would love it
You should check the Once Upon A Time family tree
Now you gotta do Arrested Development 😂
LOL that show is full of incest jokes but is pure gold
I feel like maybe the could have changed the Joe and Claire thing to be just more of Joe wanting to be more with Claire than with Phil. It could have been that he liked her more than Phil or just wanted more attention from her. The crush thing was pretty weird for a kid
even luke made some disturbing comments about claire
I clicked to find out why theres no arrow from Manny to Claire then left because of the ad
I think your use of incestuous to the Friends friend group makes sense. in high school when I had a friend group who was always hooking up with each other, we called an incestuous friend group too
but thats the whole point of "MODERN" family , they all take each other for they are as an individual and not under the pretext of the label of the relation they share . its pretty given that its a weird mix of family with age gaps and relationship dynamics that are not obvious
Analyzing the weird relationship in the king of queens.
Freud would love this show
Sigmund? Why do people always talk about him what did he do?
@@Loola345 he was very important in psych and he had these theories about basically saying that everything you do is based off of sexual urges, and basically said that people wanna have sex with their parents which is clearly a flawed ideology.
Words have multiple definitions. Being ignorant does not make someone else wrong. “(of human relations generally) excessively close and resistant to outside influence.
"the incestuous nature of literary journalism"”
I always thought manny and gloria's sister was just his way of saving himself by making her purposely unconfortable, that it wasn't for real. now i just think he is creepy
dont forget dylan and claire
EVERY night's episode: the writer's barely-disguised fetish.
Yeah, I was just watching a few episodes the other day and there was definitely some weirdness. I think was a Gloria and Luke dynamic. I'm not even sure. Ive seen the series a few times and it was more cringe than I remembered.
The time Sonia came onto Jay on Valentine's day
The first two minutes of this video got me subscribed 😂
Good job 👍
You forgot the wedding episode (Mitch and Cam) where they joked about Luke and Manny getting married and arguing like an old couple.
Also, Jay and Rebarka 😂
i am so glad im not the only one weirded out by phil ooc remarks and advances towards gloria like??? the phil i know would NEVER
yall forget that this show was designed to make you laugh when uncomfortable
I've literally never understood the idea of "they're not blood related so it's not wrong" it's the kind of excuse that doesn't work, the only time i could even say some form of defense for incest is if in a situation where you were dating someone and your and that person's parents married not knowing they were related to who was dating who first. Or better way of saying it, the parents not knowing they were related to their kid's date. That's it, and i think it goes without saying that if you find out your related to someone too but you both were dating before hand, you should cut it off. And if your not blood related but related by legal ways like brother/sister in law or whatever, adoption or step who cares, it's weird. it may be a little less awkward if you do anything but that never changes the fact it's wrong. And no it doesn't matter how hot they are, if your soooo tempted to sleep with a relative, you should probably try and stay away from them or at least if you know you can't control yourself. yes i will read into things too much and voice my opinions.
I'm surprised they didn't make Manny and Haley an item at some point. She literally went through a phase where she dated anyone (even Alex's crush)
the numerous instances of incestuous overtones is very the-rock-eyebrow-raise-core
8:25 he’s… he’s A BABY
You forgot about Manny and Luke
I never got past the first couple seasons cause it kept getting worse and worse and harder to “ignore” and its just like??? Whyyyy are you exposing so many people to the idea that thats okay. 🤮
Wait till he finds arrested development lol
"Arrested Development" was another sitcom that was VERY incestuous.
Community please
Community def has this but I always thought it was weird they kinda banned Shirley from dating anyone in the group. The closest she gets is Chang but Jeff couldve done something with her idk
If Gloria and Phil is incest bc they are mother in law and son in law .. wouldn't Phil and Claire be incest? Bc Phil is the son in law to Claire's dad so Claire's is his sister.
no?? she's his mother in law because he's married to Claire
@@acailoveshe's the one who said Phil and Gloria was incest. So I'm just asking where the line stops then.. the question was supposed to be dumb
@nobodyjustacreep ok but you're point makes zero sense at all 😭
@@acailovesI know it dosnt. Idk how to explain what I meant or what the "joke" was. I get it I'm dumb lol, I got a stupid way of entertaining myself
In terms of the last one I think the joke is more so the boomer man is bad husband and treats woman worse then dog.
You forget the one with Phil and Cam when Cam bought a lama. Or the least episode when Manni says he wrotes all his poems for Luke.
something that i always hated was that they painted phil’s character out to be a really devoted husband and he clearly really adored his wife but they also built in the storyline of him constantly checking out other women literally in front of claire’s face and the one episode where phil told that guy he went to college with that he was married to gloria instead of claire. to me it makes no sense to make a character trait in one of your characters, and then create a storyline that goes directly against what you wrote the character to be.