False choice, lol. Back in 2012 I sailed my 20' Pacific Seacraft Flicka over 1000nm down the California and Baja coast from Los Angeles to La Paz Mexico with NO engine, unless you count the electric trolling motor I only used to maneuver around marinas and anchorages with when there was no wind. It also provided bare steerage on passages for the auto-pilot, which was about 1.5 knots. Trip average was 3 knots. I kept my batteries charged with combination of solar and wind turbine power. While I'm certainly glad I did it, and it made me a much better, more patient sailor, I'd recommend an inboard electric motor with a 1000ah LiFePo4 battery bank, and a combination of solar, wind, and/or gensets to keep them charged if you can afford it, and don't feel the need to motor for hundreds of miles at a time. Get a cruising spinnaker too. Best morale booster on light-air passages. Composting head worked well too. If you can go without a diesel or especially gas inboard or outboard do it. They are nothing but trouble. Expensive, unreliable, noisy, smelly, bone rattling, heat generating, planet killing high maintenance nightmares. Trust me - I've been sailing a 1984 Catalina 30 with a Universal MX25 diesel for 8 years now, and I HATE IT. It's the most maintenance intensive breakdown prone money gobbling piece of equipment on the boat, and I'm scrupulous about taking care of it. It's got under 2500 hours on it, which is maybe 25% of it's expected lifespan, so it's really just a teenager. I've had fuel contamination problems. Clogged filters - primary and secondary. Ignition / starter wiring so bad I installed a secondary emergency starting system as a back-up because it was impossible to troubleshoot the intermittent starting problems. I've replaced a bad starter. A bad alternator that failed open and killed $800 worth of AGM batteries. The raw water-pump exploded. It leaks a tiny bit of diesel fuel into the bilge no matter how tightly the fuel filter is spun on, making a smelly mess. The oil pan bolts leak.The water intake clogs with seaweed occasionally while underway. It's impossible to carry on a conversation, much less sleep off-watch below while it runs. It's failed to start or stopped running more times than I can count, always at the worst possible time, like when making landfall or pulling out of a slip. The bottom line is that an engine is a dubious luxury aboard a sailboat at best, and you're gonna pay dearly for it, especially if you think it's gonna get you out of trouble when the chips are down. That's what good prudent seamanship is for - avoiding trouble in the first place, and being able to SAIL OUT OF IT when your back is against the wall. Trust me. And get good ground-tackle. Lots of chain, an electric windlass, and an anchor at least one size larger than the manufacturer recomends as a primary, and have at least one other anchor and rode ready to deploy if your primary fouls or drags or is lost while cruising. I carry 4, lol.....
I love everything about this post- I think we're kindred spirits! Subscribed to your channel. If you're ever in the SF Bay area I'd love to go sailing with you some time.
This video makes me appreciate my Columbia 28 (as a first boat) with an outboard in a well even more. You get many of the advantages of both, and I was impressed on my first haul out to see that the way Crealock designed the hull it tapers back to just before the outboard so drag is kept to an absolute minimum as well! You can even use the outboard as a small emergency rudder without it even running in a pinch!
I normally only watch actual at sea sailing videos - but this is a great channel. This is great info for new guys such as myself and I enjoy the history and stories of where these boats came from. As always looking forward to the next episode!
An outboard has worked well for me.I'm on my fourth having sold off the 2-stroke that came with the boat after a few years,replacing it with a 9.9Honda that took 20+ years to start smoking,replacing that with an 8hp honda that just didn't give the push I wanted so I finally bought a new one(The hondas were both offers I couldn't refuse).Now I have a Yamaha 9.9 XL shaft with 3:1 reduction gear and an 11.5 inch prop.It easily pushes my Niagara 26 along at hull speed while over loaded,towing a 10' rib and bucking 15 knot headwinds and waves to match,keeping up with a c&c 32 powered by a 30HP Perkins.It's thru-bolted to the transom so good luck on stealing it and cavitation is not an issue.A pair of 100 watt solar panels have kept the beer icy cold for 3 seasons on Lake Superior and one in the Bahamas with lots of power to spare so far.There's a long list of sources of fire and explosion on a boat starting with lack of maintenance. An outboard doesn't give that sense of security an inboard does but I am sure the current crop of high thrust XL shaft outboards (up to 20HP)with up front controls(or even remote)will give a diesel a run for it's money.And besides the one time my motor died(water pump impeller disintigrated) I lifted the motor off ,put the dingy motor in it's place and went faster.
Got to agree with you on all points Neil. An outboard is easy to repower, easy to work on, can be stored out of the water when sailing and gives plenty of thrust in a small package. Remote throttle/ignition with a tiller bar connecting to the rudder is ideal. Outboards are also much easier to find, and gasoline itself is often easier to find than diesel. Great setup for inland, coastal or short crossings. Bahamas would be easy for your boat.
I like it when you mention "stress". It's an important dimension. That alone can make or break the experience. Especially if your time in the water is limited due to weather, shedule, family obligation. Now a day, A 6 to 10 HP equivalent electric outboard in a well "might" be nice. Enough to maneuver when close to shore.
When you say “in a well” do you mean keeping it stowed & dropping it on a mount when you get close? The reason I ask is that I’ve thought about a 6-10 hp electric outboard on a bracket for maneuvering in marinas. The question was whether to stow it or keep it on an an adjustable bracket that lowers when I want to use it. But then I worry what salt water will do to it because I want it to last.
@@r.williamcomm7693 a "well" is rectangular opening with access to the water in or close to the cockpit into which the outboard engine is dropped. In this context the engine is lowered to the water for operation and raised when off. Ideally the engine is aligned on the centerline of the boat with the rudder. The engine is usually not used for steering. It is used for propulsion. The engine is either raised straight up or down like an elevator or in the usual way on a pivot. The installation must be able to manage engine heat an gas fumes. The engine handle must be accessible while running the engine unless remote operation is possible. There are examples in the wild. Such as an installation in the lazarette behind the cockpit of a Albert 30. See also an engine well off of the centerline to starboard at the companion way end of the cockpit of a Presto 30.
I sail a Grampian 26 on the Great Lakes, I use a 4.5 horse mercury long shaft. works absolutely perfect and starts first pull every time. My secondary motor is an electric outboard with 55lb thrust, also works great.
Ive always has inboard engines, my previous boat was a Contessa 32 and waiting for engineers to service it,was a nightmare, they never turned up on the agreed day, plus there was shafts, glands, exhaust pipes fuel tanks ect to consider. I now have a Hurley 22 long fin with a 6hp mercury and am delighted with it. Any probs i just unship it and take it to the shop (Not that i have ever had a prob.) You dont get any cavitation in rough weather as on the hurley the engine is not positioned on the transom.
I just went back and looked at your mayday video. There was a heck of a lot of water in there! Must have been awful. I take some lessons from that experience for if/when I buy a cruiser. 1. Have two bilge pumps. 2. Make sure the deep water alarm has a repeater in the cockpit. 3. Have bungs on hand. 4. Find a wife that will work her socks off to help if an emergency happens. You both worked so hard together. I'm so pleased you both managed to get through such a miserable and stressful situation.
Well covered topic. I'd also consider the change in diesel to include biodiesel and the problems with the dreaded bug and marine sources. Petrol in outboards is more combustible but more consistently cleaner.
Bug issue isn't such a big deal unless in bigger boats with massive tanks that don't take fuel from the bottom. Biodiesel is easy some bigger motors can run on vege oil (recycled fryer oil is common) that can be harder to keep clean and filter but generally worth the effort. disadvantage with petrol is its volatile advantage is its volatile bad because of fire good because its basically self cleaning small spills just blow away.
Excellent video with the pros and cons well laid out. Our 30-footer has a Beta Marine engine. It rattles you to death but it never quits and it has made rough seas and headwinds tolerable. Same boat with an outboard (and there are a few) would be at the mercy of the elements totally.
Another advantage of an inboard is hot water for bathing and cleaning. A heat exchanger and water tank is all you need. With an outboard there is no such option. You need to heat the water with a power gobbling electric heater, or maybe a Webasto type diesel fuel heater.
You can have your charger plugged into Honda Inverter generator 2200i. I charge with the 7 amp charge outlet on the Honda as well as my victron 25 amp charger. I can also run my outboard for extra charging. I find it nice to go to land and do your activity while the Generator charges lithium bank. Also lithium charges way faster than anything else. 😎
You covered that so well, it matches my personal experience very closely. I had a 24ft sailboat with transom hung outboard for 10 years then replaced it with a 28ft inboard diesel sailboat which I have now had for 10years. Only thing I could add is diesel smell an older engine its hard to get rid of I don't notice but it does put my daughters and granddaughters off coming out for extended trips :( also am not naturally mechanically inclined which makes the inboard harder', outboards like you say are either cheap to replace or there's tons of outboard mechanics you can take it to. Also the heat in the cabin our summer cruising here its hot at night (20C often) a hot motor in the cabin with you doesn't help. But I do remember the frustrating trips where the wind blows up in the evening trying to come home through Motuihe channel the wind against tide gives a chop similar length to the boat bad enough but when your outboard cavitates at the critical point on every wave you stop and cant get through grrrrrrrrr
The one other ‘outboard’ option is where it is fitted in a cockpit well or even a locker well. Keeps the nice lines of the boat and makes it a lot less hassle to operate compared to hanging off the back and makes it less visible to opportunist eyes tho we just lift it out and lock it below. Great little video for those new to sailing.
Thanks, very good points ... and appreciate your direct style, there are pros and cons to both. I'm actually thinking about going without an engine. If you remove the engine and the fuel tanks, you suddenly have much more room! Plus, lower risk of fire or fuel leaks ... and no maintenance on that engine!!! Saves money too! I mean, we are sailors, right? It requires a little more planning and care, but sailing without an engine has been done before. Ha ha. Just bring oars.
@@robertgulfshores4463 What about air conditioning, hot water showers, freezers, refrigerators, water pumps, television, a recliner with electric massagers, etc? (I'm kidding!)
You convinced me! If I'm ever able to have a boat, I'll get an outboard. When I go home, I'll just take it with me! I'll never be on the open seas, but would like to do coastal and big lakes.
Having sailed boats with inboards and outboards you have hit on most all of the advantages and disadvantages. Also some were built with wells for outboards that give you some of the pluses and negatives of both. One issue I have with outboards on some boats is if you have a transom hung rudder and yur outboard is off to one side, if the boat heels its tough to keep it in the water or out of the water. Setup on both is a major thing to think about. Luckily on my S2 11.0 I can access all side of the motor without hanging upside down. But I have worked on plenty of motors that isnt the case. Always said designers should have to work as a mechanic on what they design, Car or Boat
Agree, I had several mid sized boats with outboards. Annoying powering in waves with the prop coming out of the water, engine revving, mount shaking. So heading up wind in my entrance channel under power with the pitching and pounding was not great with outboards. With the inboard in my Catalina doing the same I feel like Das Boot powering through the waves with splash flying.
I've been researching that idea! It seems to me that it would be a cleaner solution and easier maintenance. However would the marina let you compose it? I've seen several sailors convert to composite toilets and they say it's the best decision ever. That's another great topic for discussion.
I have an inboard on my Alberg 30. The limited amount of access to the engine is a real pain in the butt. Guys in my club who have outboards have a much easier time working on them or finding someone to work on them. Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side of the septic tank.
I'm doing a hybrid style, electric inboard with a diesel generator/solar/ wind and a secondary large dingy motor with stern adaptor for tight situations. Would love to see you do a boat spot on Capitol yachts, but I'm biased with my Newport.
To paraphrase an old saw, never buy if you can rent, never rent if you can crew. Get your experience in a variety of boats before you commit. The marinas are filled with sad neglected girls tied to a slip rotting in the sun.
I have to comment on this one ! First Outboards last just as long as diesel inboards ! I have many 50 and 60 year old motors that run perfect ! 2nd. the outboard doesn't need to hang on the stern , they can hang in a pod like a Wharram Cat. with remote steering and throttle controls and hydrolic lift and lowering and use less room then an inboard ! 3rd. If properly installed are quieter then an inboard ! A 20hp outboard has a better range of power then a 20hp inboaerd at 1/10 the cost plus you can convert it to run on propane !
My 25 watkins has a 15 saildrive .Im going with a 20 suzuki outboard and compensate the weight with a water tank in the bow. For this size boat this is the way to go.
I hated my 30 hp Evinrude outboard motor until... I “tried” to use my boat on weekends during the summer, but the carburetor would gum up and not start in between use, big problem. I tried everything to no avail. A friend simply eliminated the oil injection, requiring me to mix the oil to the gas. It was a strong and dependable motor after that adjustment. Hurricane Katrina was the only thing that could kill her. 😥😥😂😂👍👍
Informative video. TY. What transom outboard motor mount do you recommend? I have a 15 hp, 2 stroke outboard in good condition that I want to use on a Catalina 27. I have heard you can set outboard lower in the water well below the plate to help with swells and cavitating.
Also they make an ultra long shaft. Honda does anyway. Perfect world I'd go 4 stroke. Two strokes are for dinghies 😉 maybe Honda 15 electric start? Hrmmmm
If you're cruising the world, (which more-or-less naturally means you'll have an inboard diesel), if you can get to anywhere inhabited, they'll likely be able to help you with a diesel, because they'll have farms, with tractors, too.
One more pro of outboard, you can get easiere access to the prop should something get stuck. But my main concern with outboard is also gasoline and prop going out the water not to mention the chance of breaking your boat when you back in a harbour 😅
Another thought in comparing inboard vs outboard. The bulk of you dissimilar metals below the waterline comes from mechanical propulsion and zinc anodes are the way to prevent these dissimilar metals from corroding into nothing. Since inboard engines can and usually are lifted completely out of the water when not in use they rarely need zinc replacements whereas and inboard needs its zincs checked regularly and replaced, especially if you are in a “hot” Marinia.
Everyone should put an outboard mount on the stern of your cruiser in case your far from civilization and need to be able to maneuver for extended periods you can take your dingys outboard amd mount it to your cruiser for emergency propulsion .if even temporarily. I think and have seen people who get efficient enough with their inboard they can do anything an outboard can do by utilizing wash and walking the stern. Its just a matter of practice..which can itself be challenging
I have a 25 ft O’day with a Tohatsu 9.8. It has a huge alternator and an inboard tank below the cockpit. Ours like a kitten, great mileage, but as you stated, when you get into those rollers, the prop tends to poke it’s head out of the water and whines.
I have a Catalina 30 that started life with an atomic 4 and it died the way that atomic bombs typically die before I even bought the boat, and the engine Bay offers a nice increase in storage space. Since you commented that atomic 4s are good engines I'd be interested to hear your take on that.
Hey, I have never had one but a lot of people swear by them. I have captained a few deliveries with them and worked on my share lol. They are all very old now but as I understand it, a solid engine in it's day
@@LadyKSailing Thank you for taking the time to respond. Admittedly, my only experience with one is an empty engine Bay that once housed an Atomic 4. Everything tells me that before they..."explode", they run great, they're reliable, and a good engine to have, but when I shopped for my first boat a local surveyor advised me that a A-4 being raw water cooled in a boat that sits in the water all the time is a ticking time bomb, and to avoid buying a boat with one under the ladder because there is no telling where the internal corrosion stands without tearing the whole thing down. He also told me about its atomic bomb nickname for it's tendency to go south with no warning, (don't they all).
There is no reason or sense to have an inboard gasoline engine. An outboard gas motor? Sure it has its pros and cons, but there are no advantages to an inboard gas motor.
I would have liked you to talk about size. For instance how much larger of a boat would you need to have to compensate for the room lost. Is a 26 foot with outboard as roomy as a 32 foot with a diesel. Or maybe that break point should be larger 34 against a 36? How heavy of a boat can be pushed with a two man lift outboard. Sure you could have a monster 150 on a big boat but who has a chain lift to deal with it? At what length does the diesel access start to be easier? What about the moorage costs for those extra feet? I feel like you covered a lot of the obvious things but came just short of the final decision making criteria. Great vid but could you tack on another 10 or 15 minutes?
Good points on pros and cons. One thing I see is that some smaller sailboats (22'+/-) utilize their lazarette to house their outboard. This allows it to be hidden, both for the "lines" and as an anti+theft measure. Maybe the best of both worlds for a 20-25' boat.
Neither! I sailed my 24-ft Kent Ranger for 35-years without am outboard and it was in a marina. It had a transom mounted rudder and a tiller so I could scull it if I needed to, but mostly sailed in with the main and/or sailed the river current with my keel to the berth. Yes, you can sail a keel just like an airplane wing. My next boat a 28' to 32' will be electric powered with Nissan Leaf batteries and a DC 20-25-hp motor. Years(98'?) ago I converted a friends 28-ft Pearson to electric drive and he never looked back. Every boat he has had since has been converted. I have since converted other boats. Most inboards have plenty of room for the motor, controller, charger, and two Nissan Leaf battery stacks. A plus with the Nissan batteries is that there is plenty of power for an electric fry pan or an induction plate, air-fryer, and a small microwave, eliminating propane. One friends eBoat even runs a counter top ice maker. We now have electric ferries in Europe so size isn't a limiting factor. And no more stinky diesel or gas fumes and all the ICE maintenance and diesel fuel problems gone.
I think more and more I am researching electric power. There are developing options for both outboards and inboards. Regeneration is an evolving technology to recharge while you are sailing...well sailing at a decent clip. Any thoughts from someone the actual experience on the topic?
What about electric motors and hybrid motors? My feeling is that a hybrid would be more useful on a boat. Could you make a video about this topic? Great videos, really enjoying your content choice 👍 Thanks
Horses for courses, although I disagree with you on initial costs involved, the difference between a 20 HP Honda/Yamaha outboard and a 21 HP Yanmar or Vetus is actually around the 15 to 20% range, I know this because I've just got quotes, 6K for a diesel, 5K for an outbosrd, Diesels are substantially more economical and offer more torque per HP, if you're faced with 2.5+ knots of current you'll battle with a 20 HP outboard on a 5 ton yacht, but a diesel will manage quite adequately, the other thing to bear in mind is RPM, you're cruising at 5 knots at 1800 on a diesel and twice that on a petrol outboard, then there's steering and fuel storage, there is ABSOLUTELY no way you're going to sea, even a 50 mile overnighter 10 miles offshore without an inboard diesel. And yes I know the Pardey's did it in the 70's. Well now days passage makers wouldn't even consider it. And nor would I. Inboard diesel unless youre a day sailor under 30' a day racer, or a trailer sailor.
i have a yamaha and the prop maxes at app1800 rpm(3:1 reduction).Once you add in cost of shaft/strut/prop...feathering??,exhaust system ,intake,etc the price difference grows.i can motor at 6.5 knots for over 200 miles no problem(Bimini to Nassau non stop has been done).It all depends on the combination.More than one Gemini has ditched the diesel for an outboard.Better milage with a diesel....maybe.......but then my dingy burns up more fuel than my sailboat....oh well.
Is there any way to tell if an outboard motor is stolen? Nice to say not to buy one but how can you avoid inadvertently doing that? Another great episode!
Ask the seller if it's ok for you to run the serial number with the local police department. If it's stolen, they will cease all communication with you.
In your opinion what is the biggest size sailboat you can get away with an outboard motor? You hinted at 30'. If you are mostly sailing, would it be rough near the shorlines/marinas? Thanks for you channel much appreciated. You are very honest and straight forward. Great channel!
Not sure why solar panels for charging batteries, and new electric outboards for lighter sailboats weren't discussed. Maybe the factors are obvious: our new-to-us Precision-18 came with a two-stroke outboard which we promptly sold and replaced (at almost no extra cost) with a clean, quiet electric outboard and battery, and that felt like a no-brainer. If we had a Catalina 22 or similar, the same decision would have been likely. So far I've just recharged the battery at home after weekend trips. Inboard engines for sailboats--as you said--over 25 feet or so make perfect sense, especially for longer passages and luxury (read, heavily weighted) boats . Maybe regen tech and battery improvements will see these become hybrid or all-electric engines.
The first complaint about onboard ( I have two dinghy outboard, a 5 hp, and z 15, both 2-stroke) is accessible areas. Just a few days ago, so changed all 4 motor mounts on my Yanmar 3GMF, and fortunately the transmission was out and gave me more room. I'm going to replace the starter while I'm on the refit because once the transmission and fuel tank are back in, access is extremely limited. How those engineers designed access for servicing so limited. Not everybody is 4' 5". Great video.
Great video covering a serious topic. I have a BMC Captain 1500 inboard diesel in my Husky 24 Motorsailer. It is about 50+ years old and still pulls like a steam train. Burns about 1 1/2 litres an hour and just keeps turning like there is no tomorrow. HOWEVER, I would love to meet a certain Mr C W Burnard who designed her with such a spacious engine compartment... NOT. Like you, I have been upside down swinging from the injection pumpalator while threading my arm beneath the front dang fingle to get at the heat cross changer so that I could access the concentric spigot that rotates the spinning push wangle. Why I would ask him did you assume that the owners of these boats would al be 2 ft midgets made of rubber. Working on my engine is a thing of beauty, seeing just how many different shapes I can make with the human body.
I disagree about your conclusion, but only a little. Imagine snagging a crab pot with an outboard vs inboard around your shaft. Also if you want to switch to an electric outboard how easy it would be. Also if your in rough seas why are you motoring if you're away from shore? I've seen many ocean going sailboats with outboard motors. My personal view is that if your boat is small enough for an outboard than why not use one? Here's where I agree with you, on the great lakes where you're close to shore and the lakes can turn fast, you're not going to want an outboard lifting out of the water. In this scenario the inboard is preferable. Unfortunately, I don't have the choice..my boats too big and the stern isn't really great for one. I'm all caught up on your videos now. 🙂
I'm thinking about living on a boat, I'm currently researching it, people told me outboards can get swamped during rough seas, they also said the outboard " lives outside " subjecting it to more corrosion, is any of this true ? great video, thanks 👍.
I would add another point in favor of a diesel engine. In my opinion simple = less points of failure = more reliable. The fewer electronics to run that diesel engine the more reliable it will be. So, do NOT get a computer controlled commonrail diesel (like you will find in many modern cars, vans and trucks ) Better use a simple agricultural mechanically injected diesel.
Chicken, egg, chicken, egg. Yes and yes. Close in shore/lake sailboat under 27 feet, sure, out board. Off shore, over 30 feet, onboard diesel. I 've been down both roads.
My Farymann inboard just took a sh!t. I have a spare one, dunno if it runs. I also looked at electric but the range was not suitable for my cruising situation. People tell me to put an outboard on, but I don't want to for long term cruising.
question.. can you control a sailboat okay with a straight back angled outboard by just moving your rudder? the rudder being in front of the motor.. guessing yes but slow speeds might be really bad.. and question 2.. will leaving your outboard in the water create a shit-ton of drag? heard a propeller fre-spinning in water makes more turbulance than a stopped one
Use a starboard mounting and backing plate. Mount two Garlik mounts….11.5 travel. One for the dinghy motor which will also act as redundancy and extra hp. I’m running a new Tohatsu 20 which is amazing and extremely efficient. Diesels stinks. I put my honda 2200 generator , lithium and canned food where my Universal used to be. Inboards break down and get diesel bug and suck to repair or maintain. If you have one don’t remove it, but if your looking at repowering go outboard if your under 30’ you wont regret it.
The Seawind 1160 catamaran is a 38 foot blue water boat that offers the option of twin outboards (in wells we’ll forward of the stern) or twin inboard diesels with sail drives (big holes in the bottom!). This makes for an interesting mental exercise. There are strong pros and cons to each option, and in my mind at least, no obvious winner. I suppose if I were planning to do an ocean crossing I would opt for the diesels, but for coastal cruising, I’m not so sure. Also there is the question of resale value/ease down the road. Would the outboards be a big negative here?
agree with most, except, I think the inboard is way more noisy and smelly and dirty. its inside the boat, so you hear it load all the time. thanks for the video.
I know there are only a few out there right now. Could you give your thoughts on a hybrid drive boat? By that I mean AC or DC drive motor for propulsion and an inverter-battery bank backed with a generator for power. It is something I've been thinking about for a while. Thank you for the channel and the meaningful information.
I'm curious whether a big generator can power an outboard electric motor(s) directly, or supply enough power to keep the batteries full while using the motor. That way you wouldn't have to have any holes in the boat, and you can put the generator somewhere that is convenient to do maintenance on.
I have an atomic 4 gasoline...and yes top priority is not to have any kind of sparks or open flames without venting fumes or smell of gas first. ..thinking of doing electric motor conversion in due course
Volvo's run great when their runnin but if it takes a dump on you parts tough to find and pricy as hell, i would advise yanmar or perkins , just saying as an ex diesel truck mechanic
Thank you for the great informative video! I'm following my life long dream of learning to sail. A dream I always wanted to check off. I'm finally making it happen. Would you suggest an outboard or inboard engine on a 27- 30 foot sailboat? I'm looking at Catalinas or Hunters for my first boat. I see both types of sailboats for sale. I'm torn between the two. I'm planning on docking in a Marina in Maryland to live aboard. Therefore, the smallest boat I'm looking at is 27 footer, possibly a 25 that has decent headroom with a shower as a must. It's just me and my two dogs. Logically as a first time sailboat owner, I'm assuming an outboard will be the better choice. Any suggestions guys, will be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Safe sailing to everyone.
LOL! Everytime I ponder a question regarding an upcoming boat purchase I find another LadyK Video. Here’s the question. I own a 25hp Mercury long shaft outboard. I see sailboats advertised without motors or with inoperable motors for less than they might otherwise sell for. Is my 25hp too large for a sailboat in the 25-27 foot range? PS It’s a ‘95 2-stroke. It will probably be sold with my estate since I’m sure it will outlive me.
Interesting perspective. I rather love my inboard, but then again im in a power boat, & I can walk around in my engine bay, which is impressive for a 28 foot boat. As for diesel vrs gas. My biggest complaint is price. Diesel is expensive, no two ways about it. Scary expensive for my finances. Gas powered boats are way more economical. In my experience gas inboards are more economical then 2 stroke outboards, of course tho that can change depending on what engine you have. I run a Chevy 350 in my boat, I can basically replace my engine with another good running 350 for $500 or less. In general i can get it rebuilt like new for under $2000. However most inboard boats do not take into account engine accessibility and replacement. And that can be a nightmare just pulling out the engine. Everything has its pros & cons, however in all of my knowledge & my opinion. A properly setup inboard vrs a properly set up outboard... Inboard will be better. More economical, easier to service & find parts, & better prop placement. As for the battery thing... So my setup has coach batteries & an engine battery. If i was running a sailboat i would do the same regardless. Pull starting is a great way to get injuries, especially on a boat. Pulled muscles especially. But it is not unheard of for people to fall or dislocate their arms when pull starting an engine. So definitely get a battery bank & switch, & never rely on pull starting for an emergency engine.
Good video and very practical advice. Question: what do you believe are the essentials needed on a sailboat for it to be considered a "Blue Water" boat. ( Primarily for long distance (non-coastal) passages? In my case, California to Hawaii. Is it a matter of construction, standing rigging or? Really appreciate your thoughts.
I like an outboard motor on my Catalina 25. When there’s wheat in the water, I don’t have to jump into the water. Further, the maintenance is much easier. And I have more room to sleep. And yes, you can steer with it greatly. And yes... there’s no drag while sailing, I can enjoy the streamline of the boat. And I am indeed glad I don’t have an extra hole in the hull. You are right about the noise though. But... I’m almost always sailing. Actually... your video was a complete summary of all the downsides and upsides.
Pros and Cons for both. On my old J/29 we started out with the outboard. We were racing and it just made sense. Less weight, drag etc. Our opinion was changed after one harrowing lake crossing (Lake Ontario) High wind and waves. The outboard was out of the water more than in. We thought "What if?" What if we needed to use the motor in the event of an emergency - eg MOB, rescue at sea etc. ? Given the conditions, it would have been useless. The next winter, the inboard was installed.
False choice, lol. Back in 2012 I sailed my 20' Pacific Seacraft Flicka over 1000nm down the California and Baja coast from Los Angeles to La Paz Mexico with NO engine, unless you count the electric trolling motor I only used to maneuver around marinas and anchorages with when there was no wind. It also provided bare steerage on passages for the auto-pilot, which was about 1.5 knots. Trip average was 3 knots. I kept my batteries charged with combination of solar and wind turbine power. While I'm certainly glad I did it, and it made me a much better, more patient sailor, I'd recommend an inboard electric motor with a 1000ah LiFePo4 battery bank, and a combination of solar, wind, and/or gensets to keep them charged if you can afford it, and don't feel the need to motor for hundreds of miles at a time. Get a cruising spinnaker too. Best morale booster on light-air passages. Composting head worked well too. If you can go without a diesel or especially gas inboard or outboard do it. They are nothing but trouble. Expensive, unreliable, noisy, smelly, bone rattling, heat generating, planet killing high maintenance nightmares. Trust me - I've been sailing a 1984 Catalina 30 with a Universal MX25 diesel for 8 years now, and I HATE IT. It's the most maintenance intensive breakdown prone money gobbling piece of equipment on the boat, and I'm scrupulous about taking care of it. It's got under 2500 hours on it, which is maybe 25% of it's expected lifespan, so it's really just a teenager. I've had fuel contamination problems. Clogged filters - primary and secondary. Ignition / starter wiring so bad I installed a secondary emergency starting system as a back-up because it was impossible to troubleshoot the intermittent starting problems. I've replaced a bad starter. A bad alternator that failed open and killed $800 worth of AGM batteries. The raw water-pump exploded. It leaks a tiny bit of diesel fuel into the bilge no matter how tightly the fuel filter is spun on, making a smelly mess. The oil pan bolts leak.The water intake clogs with seaweed occasionally while underway. It's impossible to carry on a conversation, much less sleep off-watch below while it runs. It's failed to start or stopped running more times than I can count, always at the worst possible time, like when making landfall or pulling out of a slip. The bottom line is that an engine is a dubious luxury aboard a sailboat at best, and you're gonna pay dearly for it, especially if you think it's gonna get you out of trouble when the chips are down. That's what good prudent seamanship is for - avoiding trouble in the first place, and being able to SAIL OUT OF IT when your back is against the wall. Trust me. And get good ground-tackle. Lots of chain, an electric windlass, and an anchor at least one size larger than the manufacturer recomends as a primary, and have at least one other anchor and rode ready to deploy if your primary fouls or drags or is lost while cruising. I carry 4, lol.....
I love everything about this post- I think we're kindred spirits! Subscribed to your channel. If you're ever in the SF Bay area I'd love to go sailing with you some time.
@@jims5338 I'd love to! Great sailing up there!
All that trouble, I would of gotten rid of the boat.
Excellent perspective….. thanks. I’m thinking about doing something similar.
This video makes me appreciate my Columbia 28 (as a first boat) with an outboard in a well even more. You get many of the advantages of both, and I was impressed on my first haul out to see that the way Crealock designed the hull it tapers back to just before the outboard so drag is kept to an absolute minimum as well! You can even use the outboard as a small emergency rudder without it even running in a pinch!
I normally only watch actual at sea sailing videos - but this is a great channel. This is great info for new guys such as myself and I enjoy the history and stories of where these boats came from. As always looking forward to the next episode!
An outboard has worked well for me.I'm on my fourth having sold off the 2-stroke that came with the boat after a few years,replacing it with a 9.9Honda that took 20+ years to start smoking,replacing that with an 8hp honda that just didn't give the push I wanted so I finally bought a new one(The hondas were both offers I couldn't refuse).Now I have a Yamaha 9.9 XL shaft with 3:1 reduction gear and an 11.5 inch prop.It easily pushes my Niagara 26 along at hull speed while over loaded,towing a 10' rib and bucking 15 knot headwinds and waves to match,keeping up with a c&c 32 powered by a 30HP Perkins.It's thru-bolted to the transom so good luck on stealing it and cavitation is not an issue.A pair of 100 watt solar panels have kept the beer icy cold for 3 seasons on Lake Superior and one in the Bahamas with lots of power to spare so far.There's a long list of sources of fire and explosion on a boat starting with lack of maintenance. An outboard doesn't give that sense of security an inboard does but I am sure the current crop of high thrust XL shaft outboards (up to 20HP)with up front controls(or even remote)will give a diesel a run for it's money.And besides the one time my motor died(water pump impeller disintigrated) I lifted the motor off ,put the dingy motor in it's place and went faster.
Got to agree with you on all points Neil. An outboard is easy to repower, easy to work on, can be stored out of the water when sailing and gives plenty of thrust in a small package. Remote throttle/ignition with a tiller bar connecting to the rudder is ideal. Outboards are also much easier to find, and gasoline itself is often easier to find than diesel.
Great setup for inland, coastal or short crossings. Bahamas would be easy for your boat.
WHAT??, your niagara 26 was in the bahamas?
3 winters and one in the keys@@michaelbrownlee9497
I like it when you mention "stress". It's an important dimension. That alone can make or break the experience. Especially if your time in the water is limited due to weather, shedule, family obligation. Now a day, A 6 to 10 HP equivalent electric outboard in a well "might" be nice. Enough to maneuver when close to shore.
When you say “in a well” do you mean keeping it stowed & dropping it on a mount when you get close? The reason I ask is that I’ve thought about a 6-10 hp electric outboard on a bracket for maneuvering in marinas. The question was whether to stow it or keep it on an an adjustable bracket that lowers when I want to use it. But then I worry what salt water will do to it because I want it to last.
@@r.williamcomm7693 a "well" is rectangular opening with access to the water in or close to the cockpit into which the outboard engine is dropped. In this context the engine is lowered to the water for operation and raised when off. Ideally the engine is aligned on the centerline of the boat with the rudder. The engine is usually not used for steering. It is used for propulsion. The engine is either raised straight up or down like an elevator or in the usual way on a pivot. The installation must be able to manage engine heat an gas fumes. The engine handle must be accessible while running the engine unless remote operation is possible. There are examples in the wild. Such as an installation in the lazarette behind the cockpit of a Albert 30. See also an engine well off of the centerline to starboard at the companion way end of the cockpit of a Presto 30.
@@JeanClaudeNoel Awesome. Thank you.
Fantastic review of this issue. Very helpful for those of us who are contemplating moving into the size range that this decision is important.
I was just contemplating this esoteric question and here you are!!!
I sail a Grampian 26 on the Great Lakes, I use a 4.5 horse mercury long shaft. works absolutely perfect and starts first pull every time. My secondary motor is an electric outboard with 55lb thrust, also works great.
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My 12 hp inboard yanmar diesel has a hand crank for manual starts if needed, so that relieves some of the stress you spoke of.
Ive always has inboard engines, my previous boat was a Contessa 32 and waiting for engineers to service it,was a nightmare, they never turned up on the agreed day, plus there was shafts, glands, exhaust pipes fuel tanks ect to consider. I now have a Hurley 22 long fin with a 6hp mercury and am delighted with it. Any probs i just unship it and take it to the shop (Not that i have ever had a prob.) You dont get any cavitation in rough weather as on the hurley the engine is not positioned on the transom.
I just went back and looked at your mayday video. There was a heck of a lot of water in there! Must have been awful. I take some lessons from that experience for if/when I buy a cruiser. 1. Have two bilge pumps. 2. Make sure the deep water alarm has a repeater in the cockpit. 3. Have bungs on hand. 4. Find a wife that will work her socks off to help if an emergency happens. You both worked so hard together.
I'm so pleased you both managed to get through such a miserable and stressful situation.
Well covered topic. I'd also consider the change in diesel to include biodiesel and the problems with the dreaded bug and marine sources. Petrol in outboards is more combustible but more consistently cleaner.
Bug issue isn't such a big deal unless in bigger boats with massive tanks that don't take fuel from the bottom. Biodiesel is easy some bigger motors can run on vege oil (recycled fryer oil is common) that can be harder to keep clean and filter but generally worth the effort. disadvantage with petrol is its volatile advantage is its volatile bad because of fire good because its basically self cleaning small spills just blow away.
Excellent video with the pros and cons well laid out. Our 30-footer has a Beta Marine engine. It rattles you to death but it never quits and it has made rough seas and headwinds tolerable. Same boat with an outboard (and there are a few) would be at the mercy of the elements totally.
I'm loving this channel at the moment and I'm about to buy my first boat...perfect timing!
You just pushed my button when you mentioned boat designers shoe Horning the inboard into a shoebox buried in the bilge , aaarrghhh !
Another advantage of an inboard is hot water for bathing and cleaning. A heat exchanger and water tank is all you need. With an outboard there is no such option. You need to heat the water with a power gobbling electric heater, or maybe a Webasto type diesel fuel heater.
You can have your charger plugged into Honda Inverter generator 2200i. I charge with the 7 amp charge outlet on the Honda as well as my victron 25 amp charger. I can also run my outboard for extra charging. I find it nice to go to land and do your activity while the Generator charges lithium bank. Also lithium charges way faster than anything else. 😎
You covered that so well, it matches my personal experience very closely. I had a 24ft sailboat with transom hung outboard for 10 years then replaced it with a 28ft inboard diesel sailboat which I have now had for 10years. Only thing I could add is diesel smell an older engine its hard to get rid of I don't notice but it does put my daughters and granddaughters off coming out for extended trips :( also am not naturally mechanically inclined which makes the inboard harder', outboards like you say are either cheap to replace or there's tons of outboard mechanics you can take it to. Also the heat in the cabin our summer cruising here its hot at night (20C often) a hot motor in the cabin with you doesn't help. But I do remember the frustrating trips where the wind blows up in the evening trying to come home through Motuihe channel the wind against tide gives a chop similar length to the boat bad enough but when your outboard cavitates at the critical point on every wave you stop and cant get through grrrrrrrrr
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The one other ‘outboard’ option is where it is fitted in a cockpit well or even a locker well. Keeps the nice lines of the boat and makes it a lot less hassle to operate compared to hanging off the back and makes it less visible to opportunist eyes tho we just lift it out and lock it below. Great little video for those new to sailing.
definitely but the boat needs to be designed and built for it from new.
Look up atom voyages outboard wells.
Thanks, very good points ... and appreciate your direct style, there are pros and cons to both. I'm actually thinking about going without an engine. If you remove the engine and the fuel tanks, you suddenly have much more room! Plus, lower risk of fire or fuel leaks ... and no maintenance on that engine!!! Saves money too! I mean, we are sailors, right? It requires a little more planning and care, but sailing without an engine has been done before. Ha ha. Just bring oars.
@@robertgulfshores4463 What about air conditioning, hot water showers, freezers, refrigerators, water pumps, television, a recliner with electric massagers, etc? (I'm kidding!)
Did you do it in the end? If so how's it going?
You convinced me! If I'm ever able to have a boat, I'll get an outboard. When I go home, I'll just take it with me! I'll never be on the open seas, but would like to do coastal and big lakes.
Outboard in a well is a good compromise. Also, electric inboard is a good option, especially if you DIY.
Having sailed boats with inboards and outboards you have hit on most all of the advantages and disadvantages. Also some were built with wells for outboards that give you some of the pluses and negatives of both. One issue I have with outboards on some boats is if you have a transom hung rudder and yur outboard is off to one side, if the boat heels its tough to keep it in the water or out of the water. Setup on both is a major thing to think about. Luckily on my S2 11.0 I can access all side of the motor without hanging upside down. But I have worked on plenty of motors that isnt the case. Always said designers should have to work as a mechanic on what they design, Car or Boat
Agree, I had several mid sized boats with outboards. Annoying powering in waves with the prop coming out of the water, engine revving, mount shaking. So heading up wind in my entrance channel under power with the pitching and pounding was not great with outboards. With the inboard in my Catalina doing the same I feel like Das Boot powering through the waves with splash flying.
For me a simple electric outboard motor is enough, mostly for ⚓ ⬆️⬇️⬅️➡️. And I agree: A hull should be MONOBLOCK without holes in it!
How do you propose dealing with a head? Spray it up in the air?
@@JP-lz3vk Composting toilet?
I've been researching that idea! It seems to me that it would be a cleaner solution and easier maintenance. However would the marina let you compose it? I've seen several sailors convert to composite toilets and they say it's the best decision ever. That's another great topic for discussion.
I have an inboard on my Alberg 30. The limited amount of access to the engine is a real pain in the butt. Guys in my club who have outboards have a much easier time working on them or finding someone to work on them. Maybe the grass is always greener on the other side of the septic tank.
Yeah, they might not be able to motor in seas at all
I'm doing a hybrid style, electric inboard with a diesel generator/solar/ wind and a secondary large dingy motor with stern adaptor for tight situations. Would love to see you do a boat spot on Capitol yachts, but I'm biased with my Newport.
I have a moody 44 with 30 hp long shaft, amazing, I did all Caribbean for 2 yeras, PERFECT. Diesel is frustrating.
To paraphrase an old saw, never buy if you can rent, never rent if you can crew. Get your experience in a variety of boats before you commit. The marinas are filled with sad neglected girls tied to a slip rotting in the sun.
Thank you for your expertise.
Quiet cabin underway with an outboard is also a big advantage.
I have to comment on this one ! First Outboards last just as long as diesel inboards ! I have many 50 and 60 year old motors that run perfect ! 2nd. the outboard doesn't need to hang on the stern , they can hang in a pod like a Wharram Cat. with remote steering and throttle controls and hydrolic lift and lowering and use less room then an inboard ! 3rd. If properly installed are quieter then an inboard ! A 20hp outboard has a better range of power then a 20hp inboaerd at 1/10 the cost plus you can convert it to run on propane !
My 25 watkins has a 15 saildrive .Im going with a 20 suzuki outboard and compensate the weight with a water tank in the bow. For this size boat this is the way to go.
20 hp eltric outbard
Great video. Yeah my only problem with using an outboard is the fuel risks
And now available are diesel outboards! I’m looking forward to electric drive!
Which brands do you know of that are diesel?
The 900-lb gorilla in the room: Electric motors. They've really come a long way and they solve a lot of problems.
I hated my 30 hp Evinrude outboard motor until... I “tried” to use my boat on weekends during the summer, but the carburetor would gum up and not start in between use, big problem. I tried everything to no avail. A friend simply eliminated the oil injection, requiring me to mix the oil to the gas. It was a strong and dependable motor after that adjustment. Hurricane Katrina was the only thing that could kill her. 😥😥😂😂👍👍
I’ve got a 2005 50hp Johnson on a whaler. Runs beautifully after removal of the VRO system. Just need to mix my own gas. No worries.
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Informative video. TY. What transom outboard motor mount do you recommend? I have a 15 hp, 2 stroke outboard in good condition that I want to use on a Catalina 27. I have heard you can set outboard lower in the water well below the plate to help with swells and cavitating.
Also they make an ultra long shaft. Honda does anyway. Perfect world I'd go 4 stroke. Two strokes are for dinghies 😉 maybe Honda 15 electric start? Hrmmmm
Number one for me is the smell of diesel in an old boat, I don't want to be there.
If you're cruising the world, (which more-or-less naturally means you'll have an inboard diesel), if you can get to anywhere inhabited, they'll likely be able to help you with a diesel, because they'll have farms, with tractors, too.
One more pro of outboard, you can get easiere access to the prop should something get stuck.
But my main concern with outboard is also gasoline and prop going out the water not to mention the chance of breaking your boat when you back in a harbour 😅
Another thought in comparing inboard vs outboard. The bulk of you dissimilar metals below the waterline comes from mechanical propulsion and zinc anodes are the way to prevent these dissimilar metals from corroding into nothing. Since inboard engines can and usually are lifted completely out of the water when not in use they rarely need zinc replacements whereas and inboard needs its zincs checked regularly and replaced, especially if you are in a “hot” Marinia.
Everyone should put an outboard mount on the stern of your cruiser in case your far from civilization and need to be able to maneuver for extended periods you can take your dingys outboard amd mount it to your cruiser for emergency propulsion .if even temporarily.
I think and have seen people who get efficient enough with their inboard they can do anything an outboard can do by utilizing wash and walking the stern. Its just a matter of practice..which can itself be challenging
I have a 25 ft O’day with a Tohatsu 9.8. It has a huge alternator and an inboard tank below the cockpit. Ours like a kitten, great mileage, but as you stated, when you get into those rollers, the prop tends to poke it’s head out of the water and whines.
I have a Catalina 30 that started life with an atomic 4 and it died the way that atomic bombs typically die before I even bought the boat, and the engine Bay offers a nice increase in storage space. Since you commented that atomic 4s are good engines I'd be interested to hear your take on that.
Hey, I have never had one but a lot of people swear by them. I have captained a few deliveries with them and worked on my share lol. They are all very old now but as I understand it, a solid engine in it's day
@@LadyKSailing Thank you for taking the time to respond. Admittedly, my only experience with one is an empty engine Bay that once housed an Atomic 4. Everything tells me that before they..."explode", they run great, they're reliable, and a good engine to have, but when I shopped for my first boat a local surveyor advised me that a A-4 being raw water cooled in a boat that sits in the water all the time is a ticking time bomb, and to avoid buying a boat with one under the ladder because there is no telling where the internal corrosion stands without tearing the whole thing down. He also told me about its atomic bomb nickname for it's tendency to go south with no warning, (don't they all).
There is no reason or sense to have an inboard gasoline engine.
An outboard gas motor? Sure it has its pros and cons, but there are no advantages to an inboard gas motor.
I would have liked you to talk about size. For instance how much larger of a boat would you need to have to compensate for the room lost. Is a 26 foot with outboard as roomy as a 32 foot with a diesel. Or maybe that break point should be larger 34 against a 36? How heavy of a boat can be pushed with a two man lift outboard. Sure you could have a monster 150 on a big boat but who has a chain lift to deal with it? At what length does the diesel access start to be easier? What about the moorage costs for those extra feet? I feel like you covered a lot of the obvious things but came just short of the final decision making criteria. Great vid but could you tack on another 10 or 15 minutes?
Good points on pros and cons. One thing I see is that some smaller sailboats (22'+/-) utilize their lazarette to house their outboard. This allows it to be hidden, both for the "lines" and as an anti+theft measure. Maybe the best of both worlds for a 20-25' boat.
The manoeuvreability being said , an outboard doesn't throw propwash onto the rudder
Neither! I sailed my 24-ft Kent Ranger for 35-years without am outboard and it was in a marina. It had a transom mounted rudder and a tiller so I could scull it if I needed to, but mostly sailed in with the main and/or sailed the river current with my keel to the berth. Yes, you can sail a keel just like an airplane wing.
My next boat a 28' to 32' will be electric powered with Nissan Leaf batteries and a DC 20-25-hp motor.
Years(98'?) ago I converted a friends 28-ft Pearson to electric drive and he never looked back. Every boat he has had since has been converted. I have since converted other boats. Most inboards have plenty of room for the motor, controller, charger, and two Nissan Leaf battery stacks.
A plus with the Nissan batteries is that there is plenty of power for an electric fry pan or an induction plate, air-fryer, and a small microwave, eliminating propane. One friends eBoat even runs a counter top ice maker. We now have electric ferries in Europe so size isn't a limiting factor.
And no more stinky diesel or gas fumes and all the ICE maintenance and diesel fuel problems gone.
I think more and more I am researching electric power. There are developing options for both outboards and inboards. Regeneration is an evolving technology to recharge while you are sailing...well sailing at a decent clip. Any thoughts from someone the actual experience on the topic?
My boat requires a very long shaft to be satisfied.
What about electric motors and hybrid motors? My feeling is that a hybrid would be more useful on a boat. Could you make a video about this topic?
Great videos, really enjoying your content choice 👍
Thanks
Horses for courses, although I disagree with you on initial costs involved, the difference between a 20 HP Honda/Yamaha outboard and a 21 HP Yanmar or Vetus is actually around the 15 to 20% range, I know this because I've just got quotes, 6K for a diesel, 5K for an outbosrd, Diesels are substantially more economical and offer more torque per HP, if you're faced with 2.5+ knots of current you'll battle with a 20 HP outboard on a 5 ton yacht, but a diesel will manage quite adequately, the other thing to bear in mind is RPM, you're cruising at 5 knots at 1800 on a diesel and twice that on a petrol outboard, then there's steering and fuel storage, there is ABSOLUTELY no way you're going to sea, even a 50 mile overnighter 10 miles offshore without an inboard diesel. And yes I know the Pardey's did it in the 70's.
Well now days passage makers wouldn't even consider it. And nor would I.
Inboard diesel unless youre a day sailor under 30' a day racer, or a trailer sailor.
i have a yamaha and the prop maxes at app1800 rpm(3:1 reduction).Once you add in cost of shaft/strut/prop...feathering??,exhaust system ,intake,etc the price difference grows.i can motor at 6.5 knots for over 200 miles no problem(Bimini to Nassau non stop has been done).It all depends on the combination.More than one Gemini has ditched the diesel for an outboard.Better milage with a diesel....maybe.......but then my dingy burns up more fuel than my sailboat....oh well.
my pandora 700 has a outboard well in the cockpit and in front of the rudder
Yeah this is awesome! Best of both worlds.
Very informative. Thank- you.
Is there any way to tell if an outboard motor is stolen? Nice to say not to buy one but how can you avoid inadvertently doing that? Another great episode!
Ask the seller if it's ok for you to run the serial number with the local police department. If it's stolen, they will cease all communication with you.
In your opinion what is the biggest size sailboat you can get away with an outboard motor? You hinted at 30'. If you are mostly sailing, would it be rough near the shorlines/marinas? Thanks for you channel much appreciated. You are very honest and straight forward. Great channel!
You can stick an outboard on the back of a Folkboat.
I'd suggest that is around the limit for outboard power.
I've been on a Catalina 27 with the factory outboard cutout in the transom. The OB kept lifting out of the water in choppy seas.
Why not get the best of both. Inboard for long range cruising and a 5 horse kicker for emergency backup and for navigating in and out of slips.
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Not sure why solar panels for charging batteries, and new electric outboards for lighter sailboats weren't discussed. Maybe the factors are obvious: our new-to-us Precision-18 came with a two-stroke outboard which we promptly sold and replaced (at almost no extra cost) with a clean, quiet electric outboard and battery, and that felt like a no-brainer. If we had a Catalina 22 or similar, the same decision would have been likely. So far I've just recharged the battery at home after weekend trips. Inboard engines for sailboats--as you said--over 25 feet or so make perfect sense, especially for longer passages and luxury (read, heavily weighted) boats . Maybe regen tech and battery improvements will see these become hybrid or all-electric engines.
I'm told that up until the mid 1970's it wasn't that uncommon to go sailing without an engine. In that light, what do you think of electric motors?
The first complaint about onboard ( I have two dinghy outboard, a 5 hp, and z 15, both 2-stroke) is accessible areas. Just a few days ago, so changed all 4 motor mounts on my Yanmar 3GMF, and fortunately the transmission was out and gave me more room. I'm going to replace the starter while I'm on the refit because once the transmission and fuel tank are back in, access is extremely limited. How those engineers designed access for servicing so limited. Not everybody is 4' 5". Great video.
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Here in West Texas we got 15 inches of snow yesterday 😩🛫
Great video covering a serious topic. I have a BMC Captain 1500 inboard diesel in my Husky 24 Motorsailer. It is about 50+ years old and still pulls like a steam train. Burns about 1 1/2 litres an hour and just keeps turning like there is no tomorrow. HOWEVER, I would love to meet a certain Mr C W Burnard who designed her with such a spacious engine compartment... NOT. Like you, I have been upside down swinging from the injection pumpalator while threading my arm beneath the front dang fingle to get at the heat cross changer so that I could access the concentric spigot that rotates the spinning push wangle. Why I would ask him did you assume that the owners of these boats would al be 2 ft midgets made of rubber. Working on my engine is a thing of beauty, seeing just how many different shapes I can make with the human body.
An outboard is useless in bad weather - hight waves..
I disagree about your conclusion, but only a little. Imagine snagging a crab pot with an outboard vs inboard around your shaft. Also if you want to switch to an electric outboard how easy it would be. Also if your in rough seas why are you motoring if you're away from shore? I've seen many ocean going sailboats with outboard motors. My personal view is that if your boat is small enough for an outboard than why not use one? Here's where I agree with you, on the great lakes where you're close to shore and the lakes can turn fast, you're not going to want an outboard lifting out of the water. In this scenario the inboard is preferable. Unfortunately, I don't have the choice..my boats too big and the stern isn't really great for one. I'm all caught up on your videos now. 🙂
I'm thinking about living on a boat, I'm currently researching it, people told me outboards can get swamped during rough seas, they also said the outboard " lives outside " subjecting it to more corrosion, is any of this true ? great video, thanks 👍.
another great episode.
I would add another point in favor of a diesel engine. In my opinion simple = less points of failure = more reliable. The fewer electronics to run that diesel engine the more reliable it will be. So, do NOT get a computer controlled commonrail diesel (like you will find in many modern cars, vans and trucks ) Better use a simple agricultural mechanically injected diesel.
Chicken, egg, chicken, egg. Yes and yes. Close in shore/lake sailboat under 27 feet, sure, out board. Off shore, over 30 feet, onboard diesel. I 've been down both roads.
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My Farymann inboard just took a sh!t. I have a spare one, dunno if it runs. I also looked at electric but the range was not suitable for my cruising situation. People tell me to put an outboard on, but I don't want to for long term cruising.
question.. can you control a sailboat okay with a straight back angled outboard by just moving your rudder? the rudder being in front of the motor.. guessing yes but slow speeds might be really bad.. and question 2.. will leaving your outboard in the water create a shit-ton of drag? heard a propeller fre-spinning in water makes more turbulance than a stopped one
I'm heavily leaning towards converting to two 6kw electric outboards on my Lord Nelson 33.
2 36 kw baters 6 hiurs toó soeed 36 nm range
Use a starboard mounting and backing plate. Mount two Garlik mounts….11.5 travel. One for the dinghy motor which will also act as redundancy and extra hp. I’m running a new Tohatsu 20 which is amazing and extremely efficient. Diesels stinks. I put my honda 2200 generator , lithium and canned food where my Universal used to be. Inboards break down and get diesel bug and suck to repair or maintain. If you have one don’t remove it, but if your looking at repowering go outboard if your under 30’ you wont regret it.
I am going to have both an inboard plus and a small outboard as a back up to the inboard that can also be used on a dingy.
I see a lot of Catalina 30 and Allen Vega with outboard.
The Seawind 1160 catamaran is a 38 foot blue water boat that offers the option of twin outboards (in wells we’ll forward of the stern) or twin inboard diesels with sail drives (big holes in the bottom!). This makes for an interesting mental exercise. There are strong pros and cons to each option, and in my mind at least, no obvious winner. I suppose if I were planning to do an ocean crossing I would opt for the diesels, but for coastal cruising, I’m not so sure.
Also there is the question of resale value/ease down the road. Would the outboards be a big negative here?
agree with most, except, I think the inboard is way more noisy and smelly and dirty. its inside the boat, so you hear it load all the time.
thanks for the video.
I know there are only a few out there right now. Could you give your thoughts on a hybrid drive boat? By that I mean AC or DC drive motor for propulsion and an inverter-battery bank backed with a generator for power. It is something I've been thinking about for a while.
Thank you for the channel and the meaningful information.
Should have added Electric motors in there as well. a whole big other thing
Was about to mention that, inboard and outbord electric engines.
Yeah I have been reading up on them. Range still seems to be the issue. Well and cost.
I'm curious whether a big generator can power an outboard electric motor(s) directly, or supply enough power to keep the batteries full while using the motor. That way you wouldn't have to have any holes in the boat, and you can put the generator somewhere that is convenient to do maintenance on.
You are going to need a big and long extension cord to have enough torque and longevity to power a sail boat with an electric engine. 🤣🛫
@@TheFalconJetDriver ever heard of "sailing Uma"?
I have an atomic 4 gasoline...and yes top priority is not to have any kind of sparks or open flames without venting fumes or smell of gas first. ..thinking of doing electric motor conversion in due course
Volvo's run great when their runnin but if it takes a dump on you parts tough to find and pricy as hell, i would advise yanmar or perkins , just saying as an ex diesel truck mechanic
HI have one word for a Honda outboard "amazing"
Yes, I have another, EXPENSIVE
I guess you can also untangle a fouled prop more easily with and outboard
Have done that.Takes a couple of minutes then off you go again....I tend to use nylon line for towing my dingy so self inflicted.
Thank you for the great informative video! I'm following my life long dream of learning to sail. A dream I always wanted to check off. I'm finally making it happen. Would you suggest an outboard or inboard engine on a 27- 30 foot sailboat? I'm looking at Catalinas or Hunters for my first boat. I see both types of sailboats for sale. I'm torn between the two. I'm planning on docking in a Marina in Maryland to live aboard. Therefore, the smallest boat I'm looking at is 27 footer, possibly a 25 that has decent headroom with a shower as a must. It's just me and my two dogs. Logically as a first time sailboat owner, I'm assuming an outboard will be the better choice. Any suggestions guys, will be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Safe sailing to everyone.
I think the biggest downfall of an outboard, is theft.
cant beat a perkins. They are very heavy build made to last. Not like the "other" ones that are lightweight.
7
Perkins are great, as are Yanmar and Vetus (same company)
LOL! Everytime I ponder a question regarding an upcoming boat purchase I find another LadyK Video. Here’s the question. I own a 25hp Mercury long shaft outboard. I see sailboats advertised without motors or with inoperable motors for less than they might otherwise sell for. Is my 25hp too large for a sailboat in the 25-27 foot range? PS It’s a ‘95 2-stroke. It will probably be sold with my estate since I’m sure it will outlive me.
Pearson 26 running a tohatsu 9.8 electric start...dual batteries. Never unhappy with the setup
Interesting perspective. I rather love my inboard, but then again im in a power boat, & I can walk around in my engine bay, which is impressive for a 28 foot boat. As for diesel vrs gas. My biggest complaint is price. Diesel is expensive, no two ways about it. Scary expensive for my finances. Gas powered boats are way more economical. In my experience gas inboards are more economical then 2 stroke outboards, of course tho that can change depending on what engine you have. I run a Chevy 350 in my boat, I can basically replace my engine with another good running 350 for $500 or less. In general i can get it rebuilt like new for under $2000. However most inboard boats do not take into account engine accessibility and replacement. And that can be a nightmare just pulling out the engine. Everything has its pros & cons, however in all of my knowledge & my opinion. A properly setup inboard vrs a properly set up outboard... Inboard will be better. More economical, easier to service & find parts, & better prop placement. As for the battery thing... So my setup has coach batteries & an engine battery. If i was running a sailboat i would do the same regardless. Pull starting is a great way to get injuries, especially on a boat. Pulled muscles especially. But it is not unheard of for people to fall or dislocate their arms when pull starting an engine. So definitely get a battery bank & switch, & never rely on pull starting for an emergency engine.
buy yamha 9,9 eltric outbard
Puuurrrs like a kitten😺 Luvvit.
Talk about smell of diesel on boat
We need diesel outboards.
They already make them very expensive though.
Con inboard
#5 noise inside the cabin.
19’ sailboat? 55lb Minn Kota…and a starter solar panel kit. Say ‘goodbye’ to fuel!
OBs are ok as an auxiliary on boats up to 26 ft or so. I find it difficult to envision an OB on a 42 footer, that would be interesting to see, eh?
Good video and very practical advice. Question: what do you believe are the essentials needed on a sailboat for it to be considered a "Blue Water" boat. ( Primarily for long distance (non-coastal) passages? In my case, California to Hawaii.
Is it a matter of construction, standing rigging or? Really appreciate your thoughts.
This interview might answer some of the aspects: ruclips.net/video/YNHCHp8yjcE/видео.html
I like an outboard motor on my Catalina 25. When there’s wheat in the water, I don’t have to jump into the water. Further, the maintenance is much easier. And I have more room to sleep. And yes, you can steer with it greatly. And yes... there’s no drag while sailing, I can enjoy the streamline of the boat. And I am indeed glad I don’t have an extra hole in the hull.
You are right about the noise though. But... I’m almost always sailing.
Actually... your video was a complete summary of all the downsides and upsides.
Pros and Cons for both. On my old J/29 we started out with the outboard. We were racing and it just made sense. Less weight, drag etc. Our opinion was changed after one harrowing lake crossing (Lake Ontario) High wind and waves. The outboard was out of the water more than in. We thought "What if?" What if we needed to use the motor in the event of an emergency - eg MOB, rescue at sea etc. ? Given the conditions, it would have been useless. The next winter, the inboard was installed.
You have a clean house
Haha living on a boat for so long I learned to put things away and keep things tidy lol. Thanks