Whenever I think I'm such a star trek nerd, my family thinks it's hilarious, I go and find a channel like this and it blows me out of the water and makes me feel like a star trek newbie again lol great job, love the channel, have a great day everyone
The bird of prey losing its secondary guns during evolution to movie era felt similar to how bombers lost most (if not all) of their turrets going from WW2 era to cold war/modern era. Technological advance probably rendered those smaller weapons on the bird of prey ineffectual (lacking either range expected for 'modern' combat or firepower needed against the proliferation of more advanced deflector shield technology). I'm sure the klingons regarded their continual presence akin to carrying a large collection butter knives into battle, in addition to actual useful weapons.
The tanker ship could just be a D5 that was damaged and then refitted into a tanker, with the leftover parts. Thank you for including the scout ship, that the augments used. I was starting to think I was from an alternate dimension where this ship appeared in the show, but it didn't exist here, because I could never find a picture of it. lol
I love the klingon ships, the nx 01 age bop is a great looking ship in my opinion. The raptor looks more advanced and is also nice has a almost romulan feel.
@ Trekyards, - great video Stuart. the USN does not use oil tanker to refuel Aircraft carriers and Aegis destroyers and the like. they have a purpose build navy vessel called an OILER, this ship is Destroyer class in size but has fuel reserves instead of weapons lie guided missiles, the Modifyed D4 is a good fit as they can create one ship and adapt it for different tasks, troop carrier, tanker whatever they need, they could even use discontinued and mothball designs to save money. utility ships need to be low cost but get the job done.
Watching this at 8pm on New Year's Eve waiting for Dominos pizza delivery while I am home alone.....exciting life I live! Happy new year to Stuart & Samuel and everyone subscriber of this fine and Trekky channel.
Just getting to this episode, when you guys are discussing the tanker, actually military battleships were much larger than the fleet resupply ships naval wise, even in modern days they are roughly the size of the Iowa.
4:40 I think that Klingon transport is meant to look like a Klingon Targ as opposed to a predatory bird like most of their other ships. Looks like it has eyes and even tusks, plus towards the back looks like the spines poking out the back like on a Targ.
I still think that when the necells are below the plane of the artificial gravity, it's designed for efficiency, not speed. I'm basing this on: 1. The shuttle, which would need efficiency quite a bit as it couldn't hold much fuel. 2. The NX series where were supposed to be fast and 3. In TOS, one of the Klingons mentions that her society is poor and that fuels their expansion. They can't waste fuel. Also, trading ships being bigger than warships is an economics thing. The more you move the easier it is to do per pound. One of the things that has begun to annoy me is all the tiny "freighters". Serenity makes sense if you figure that it's intended for move time-sensitive cargo when planets are not close together. But most don't. These things should be huge!
Did you guys notice one thing in the second JJ verse movie? They accelerated the accident that caused the moon to explode. A direct consequence of the Klinger fleet being destroyed by Nero. Klingons had to rebuild and increase mining on thier moon.
Have you ever read the Star Trek Ship Recognition Manuals by Forest G Brown for Federation, Rommulan and Klingon ships? They were made for a board game but I like them
I always took the Tanker simply as a converted D5 battlecruiser, like we had in WW2. Where civilian ships were converted to warships or warships to civilian use. But retain simple armament to counter pirates.
I like talking about the transports and other ships. Have you ever played Birth Of The Federation? There are Troop Transports and Colony ships that we've never seen and a few interesting designs for an older game.
Please remember it’s not just the KDF that has warships. All the Klingon House big or small have there own warships. Some will have the more advanced ones like the Vor'cha but many will have older ships like D5 D6 D7. Some may add more armour or disrupters. This is why the bird of prey is so common in the Klingon Empire
That opening made me flash on a scene from "Plan 9 from Outer Space" where Tor Johnson's police detective scratches his head with the muzzle of his gun and his fingers on the trigger.
2:50 The Enterprise-era Klingon design aesthetic always looked vaguely Romulan to me. 4:04 When did the Klingons become warp-capable? 5:24 I personally like the explanation given that the Monarch-class was a Klingon design for a cargo-ship which was adopted throughout known space and manufactured by multiple companies.
It is a Thought and there was a bit of a Truce between the Empire and the Romulans at this time. Truce enough to trade some D-7 for some Cloaking devices.
Valletta Petra Cyneran I think they mention that a few times in TNG. especially the story when Geordie is abducted to be an assassin of a Klingon dignitary.
The "plating" vs "TOS clean" can be explained without adding armor to an already-brutal design: The smooth look of TOS D7's was a stealthy outer hull to counter Federation scanners. Early D7's lacked it, and it was removed from later D7's with acquisition of Romulan cloaking technology. The 'plating' is actually just a reflection of internal structure.
A comment on your Augment Attack vessel, it would almost directly match the Firefly of its own franchise name. Its 80 meters by 50, where you replace engines with guns, and it would and could hold a crew of 6 and a boarding party of up to 15 in its holding. shuttles were used where beaming wasn't possible. :) however I'd see it as an interior comparison of what the attack might have internally. slight scale down for the attack cruiser.
I'm must give a dissenting opinion on the D4 concept and K'Tinga-ish battlecruiser. I liked them both. I won't be ignoring either of them. And nor should you.
The D5 have actually had a tanker variant as seen in the Star Trek enterprise episode marauders and lest we forget the D7 chronologically first appeared in series 2 of Star Trek discovery.
24:33, of course, it screams "Klingon". They even put an angry Klingon face at the top of the ship. And in Star Trek online that is the "Captain Chariot" the KDF version of the Captain Yacht.
I think there was some confusion surrounding the augments, the 'attack ship' was used by the Klingon augments in the episodes that basically explained why they had no ridges in TOS due to the augment virus (Affliction & Divergence). There are also the episodes with the human augments that steal a BoP with Brent Spiner as Arik Soong (Borderland, Cold Station 12 & The Augments). I assume Stuart had just watched the latter as he referred to having seen all 3 episodes, the attack ship isn't shown for around another 10-ish episodes.
I have never accepted that all the "D" class ships represent a direct lineage in design. I think, similarly to how Cold War USSR handled designs, you likely have multiple design houses competing for the new contract or producing multiple designs for the same role. So, the Raptor and D-5 are perhaps from the "Blah'blah" design house while the D-6 and D-7 come from another. As it has never been specifically stated in canon, I just decided that the "D" designation is the Federation model assignment.
4 years late to the party but that's exactly how I imagined it, as well. And the D7 specifically would be the Kalashnikov-like pattern of their fleet, being used for everything, and influencing many of the following blueprints.
The more "stable" visual continuity of the KDF ships versus the SF ones is probably because SF have designers from many different cultures while the Klingon mostly works internally and they have a unified culture vs the multitude of cultures that are brought to SF plans from the members of the UFP.
I noticed there were no Klingon ships from Star Trek discovery I know Batlh, Chargh, DaSpu', Jach, JejHa', Qatlh, Qoj, Qugh, Sech, Tlhapqa', Veqlargh class ship, the sarcophagus ship and the cleave ship what all in episode one I know the cleave ship is not the same aesthetic or even the basic shape. I am not forgetting the D7 battlecruiser that wasn't introduced until halfway through season two.
I always wonder (and forgive me if this was already discussed) why is it that Starfleet ships are the only ones that has numerous weapon ports? Klingon, Romulan, Jem'hadar, Csrdassian, even Borg all seem to have one weapon port and it's always right in the bow.
I thought the red grid was the deflector on the klingon ships that have them like in the enterprise episode with the augments. When the ships power goes down the red grid flickers are loses power.
I concur with your statements on tech development and reaching a certain peak in that tech. Look at say Ford or Nissan trucks. When you think they are as advanced looking then they kinda go backwards a few steps in design while stepping up the supporting the new tech.
My reading on the tanker ship is that maybe it's an older version of the D5, maybe a D3 or something that's old and they repurposed it as a tanker...? You can see how... not rusty, I guess, but "discolored" it is, which makes me think it's old.
I will point out that a real world fleet oiler is about the size of a cruiser, while and oil tanker is a bulk liquid transport and is around the size of a battleship
If Starfleet noted that pylons and struts were vulnerable and evolved their ships to minimise that, why didn't the IKF? The Vor'cha class for example still had many vulnerable spots that the "D" refit exploited in the episode, "All Good Things"
Call me a snob but any Klingon ship that wasn’t designed by Matt Jefferies just doesn’t cut it with me. They all look like weak knock-offs. His original design had a definite alien sensibility to it. Like it was designed by another culture. I don’t feel that cultural aspect to any Klingon ship that came after it. Even the Bird-of-Prey from ST3. In fact, I remember saying, “Hey, that’s Romulan Ship!” the second I saw it on screen. (I saw ‘Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock’ opening day when it came out by the way)
I do not really see the D7 by it´s look as a refined and advanced ship compared to former klingon ships to be honest. Modern tanks for example have MUCH MORE interial and exterior VISIBLE tech than older tanks, which look simple in comparsion. D7 just looks to clean and simple imo... But whatever, Merry X-Mas to you guys and keep up the good work!
for me the transport ship looks quite klingon doesen't anyone realize the similarity to the detachable daughtercraft at the back of the vor'cha and negh'var class
The klingon cargo ship wont be a civilian ship. The klingon fleet will have all its own support elements including cargo ships. They dont want to have to call their cousins brothers exs friend to use their civilian cargo ship to bring some supplies to the front line every time they go to war.
From an evolutionary perspective [ and this is coming from 35 years of experience in the aerospace industry ] the D5 and Raptor are clearly AFTER the D7 .. WAY after the D7 .. there is no way the Klingons designed the D5 and Raptor and then designed the D4, D6 and D7 .. the D4, D6 and D7 are clunky and archaic compared to the D5 and Raptor .. the D4 and D6 designs are clearly after the D7 .. the D5 and Raptor are two generations after the D7 .. the D7 is an F4 .. the Raptor is an F15 .. the D5 is an F16 ..
CMDR you keep referring to all the combat ships of the DSF as BATTLESHIPS they are not. They are WARSHIPS not BATTLESHIPS. There are many types of warship, the Battleship is just one of them, the largest. Not trying to be an A**h**e just trying to help you be a little more correct.
Whenever I think I'm such a star trek nerd, my family thinks it's hilarious, I go and find a channel like this and it blows me out of the water and makes me feel like a star trek newbie again lol great job, love the channel, have a great day everyone
The bird of prey losing its secondary guns during evolution to movie era felt similar to how bombers lost most (if not all) of their turrets going from WW2 era to cold war/modern era.
Technological advance probably rendered those smaller weapons on the bird of prey ineffectual (lacking either range expected for 'modern' combat or firepower needed against the proliferation of more advanced deflector shield technology). I'm sure the klingons regarded their continual presence akin to carrying a large collection butter knives into battle, in addition to actual useful weapons.
Don't you know your blaster safety? The power cell is *always* in, even when you're certain it isn't. :)
The tanker ship could just be a D5 that was damaged and then refitted into a tanker, with the leftover parts.
Thank you for including the scout ship, that the augments used. I was starting to think I was from an alternate dimension where this ship appeared in the show, but it didn't exist here, because I could never find a picture of it. lol
I love the klingon ships, the nx 01 age bop is a great looking ship in my opinion. The raptor looks more advanced and is also nice has a almost romulan feel.
A very nice change guys, the Klingon fleet definitely deserves more love. Festive Festivus Eve!
@ Trekyards, - great video Stuart. the USN does not use oil tanker to refuel Aircraft carriers and Aegis destroyers and the like. they have a purpose build navy vessel called an OILER, this ship is Destroyer class in size but has fuel reserves instead of weapons lie guided missiles, the Modifyed D4 is a good fit as they can create one ship and adapt it for different tasks, troop carrier, tanker whatever they need, they could even use discontinued and mothball designs to save money. utility ships need to be low cost but get the job done.
Watching this at 8pm on New Year's Eve waiting for Dominos pizza delivery while I am home alone.....exciting life I live!
Happy new year to Stuart & Samuel and everyone subscriber of this fine and Trekky channel.
Just getting to this episode, when you guys are discussing the tanker, actually military battleships were much larger than the fleet resupply ships naval wise, even in modern days they are roughly the size of the Iowa.
4:40 I think that Klingon transport is meant to look like a Klingon Targ as opposed to a predatory bird like most of their other ships. Looks like it has eyes and even tusks, plus towards the back looks like the spines poking out the back like on a Targ.
I still think that when the necells are below the plane of the artificial gravity, it's designed for efficiency, not speed. I'm basing this on:
1. The shuttle, which would need efficiency quite a bit as it couldn't hold much fuel.
2. The NX series where were supposed to be fast and
3. In TOS, one of the Klingons mentions that her society is poor and that fuels their expansion. They can't waste fuel.
Also, trading ships being bigger than warships is an economics thing. The more you move the easier it is to do per pound. One of the things that has begun to annoy me is all the tiny "freighters". Serenity makes sense if you figure that it's intended for move time-sensitive cargo when planets are not close together. But most don't. These things should be huge!
Did you guys notice one thing in the second JJ verse movie? They accelerated the accident that caused the moon to explode. A direct consequence of the Klinger fleet being destroyed by Nero. Klingons had to rebuild and increase mining on thier moon.
Have you ever read the Star Trek Ship Recognition Manuals by Forest G Brown for Federation, Rommulan and Klingon ships? They were made for a board game but I like them
I always took the Tanker simply as a converted D5 battlecruiser, like we had in WW2. Where civilian ships were converted to warships or warships to civilian use. But retain simple armament to counter pirates.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and informatively executed and explained indeed 👌.
Love you're episodes. I wanted to add my two cents that to me, the transport reads Romulan at first glance.
Awesome episode, can't wait for part 2.
I remember a Blue Print in the 80's of the D7 that had an actual firing range in it. Sort of like a Bowling Alley for Klingons.
I like talking about the transports and other ships. Have you ever played Birth Of The Federation? There are Troop Transports and Colony ships that we've never seen and a few interesting designs for an older game.
Please remember it’s not just the KDF that has warships. All the Klingon House big or small have there own warships. Some will have the more advanced ones like the Vor'cha but many will have older ships like D5 D6 D7. Some may add more armour or disrupters. This is why the bird of prey is so common in the Klingon Empire
That opening made me flash on a scene from "Plan 9 from Outer Space" where Tor Johnson's police detective scratches his head with the muzzle of his gun and his fingers on the trigger.
2:50 The Enterprise-era Klingon design aesthetic always looked vaguely Romulan to me.
4:04 When did the Klingons become warp-capable?
5:24 I personally like the explanation given that the Monarch-class was a Klingon design for a cargo-ship which was adopted throughout known space and manufactured by multiple companies.
I have to agree. it does look quiet a bit like Romulan vessel
perhaps they salvaged some destroyed romulan ships.
It is a Thought and there was a bit of a Truce between the Empire and the Romulans at this time. Truce enough to trade some D-7 for some Cloaking devices.
Valletta Petra Cyneran I think they mention that a few times in TNG. especially the story when Geordie is abducted to be an assassin of a Klingon dignitary.
oh look, REAL Klingon ships!
The "plating" vs "TOS clean" can be explained without adding armor to an already-brutal design:
The smooth look of TOS D7's was a stealthy outer hull to counter Federation scanners.
Early D7's lacked it, and it was removed from later D7's with acquisition of Romulan cloaking technology.
The 'plating' is actually just a reflection of internal structure.
sorry guys but the d7 was the first seen on the first season of Star trek enterprise
Ahhh, the days before STD came along. Real Klingons!
A comment on your Augment Attack vessel, it would almost directly match the Firefly of its own franchise name. Its 80 meters by 50, where you replace engines with guns, and it would and could hold a crew of 6 and a boarding party of up to 15 in its holding. shuttles were used where beaming wasn't possible. :) however I'd see it as an interior comparison of what the attack might have internally. slight scale down for the attack cruiser.
The down-angles help with warp, and especially cloaking; they didn't have cloaking when they used the Raptor
I'm must give a dissenting opinion on the D4 concept and K'Tinga-ish battlecruiser. I liked them both. I won't be ignoring either of them. And nor should you.
The cargo ship have some Malon and Orion traits, while the Raptor class have some romulan traits specially on the nacelles.
Wish I could meet you guys on sto , when I get my microphone set up and tell you about my favorite parts of your show.
The D5 have actually had a tanker variant as seen in the Star Trek enterprise episode marauders and lest we forget the D7 chronologically first appeared in series 2 of Star Trek discovery.
24:33, of course, it screams "Klingon". They even put an angry Klingon face at the top of the ship. And in Star Trek online that is the "Captain Chariot" the KDF version of the Captain Yacht.
Awesome.
Really great video guys.
Merry Christmas!
Why don't you look at " Prelude to Axanar for the D6 Battlecruiser or the D6 from FASA Games
I think there was some confusion surrounding the augments, the 'attack ship' was used by the Klingon augments in the episodes that basically explained why they had no ridges in TOS due to the augment virus (Affliction & Divergence). There are also the episodes with the human augments that steal a BoP with Brent Spiner as Arik Soong (Borderland, Cold Station 12 & The Augments).
I assume Stuart had just watched the latter as he referred to having seen all 3 episodes, the attack ship isn't shown for around another 10-ish episodes.
Great Part 1!
26:00 it looks like an X-Wing fuselage with Klingon wings grafted on it and a nose cone stuck to the front.
Hey guys, just wanna wish You both a Merry Christmas and Happy holidays.
Love you guys! Thanks so much for the great content
I have never accepted that all the "D" class ships represent a direct lineage in design. I think, similarly to how Cold War USSR handled designs, you likely have multiple design houses competing for the new contract or producing multiple designs for the same role. So, the Raptor and D-5 are perhaps from the "Blah'blah" design house while the D-6 and D-7 come from another. As it has never been specifically stated in canon, I just decided that the "D" designation is the Federation model assignment.
4 years late to the party but that's exactly how I imagined it, as well. And the D7 specifically would be the Kalashnikov-like pattern of their fleet, being used for everything, and influencing many of the following blueprints.
If you pronounce that using a Klingon accent... Blah'blah... would actually sound like the Klingon name for the class. 🤣
The more "stable" visual continuity of the KDF ships versus the SF ones is probably because SF have designers from many different cultures while the Klingon mostly works internally and they have a unified culture vs the multitude of cultures that are brought to SF plans from the members of the UFP.
I noticed there were no Klingon ships from Star Trek discovery I know Batlh, Chargh, DaSpu', Jach, JejHa', Qatlh, Qoj, Qugh, Sech, Tlhapqa', Veqlargh class ship, the sarcophagus ship and the cleave ship what all in episode one I know the cleave ship is not the same aesthetic or even the basic shape. I am not forgetting the D7 battlecruiser that wasn't introduced until halfway through season two.
I love how they try to come up with reasons why the older ships look more advanced than the newer ones.
Levent Taskan it's the "they MEANT to do that" of the TOS style when in truth it is because of both limit budget and limited technology of the time
I always wonder (and forgive me if this was already discussed) why is it that Starfleet ships are the only ones that has numerous weapon ports? Klingon, Romulan, Jem'hadar, Csrdassian, even Borg all seem to have one weapon port and it's always right in the bow.
Cargo ship in Klingon first time I seen this ship style
cant wait till the next one
the Klingon 'attack ship' strikes me as a sort of gunboat/gun ship, bigger than a fighter but smaller than the 12 man bird of prey from the tmp era
I thought the red grid was the deflector on the klingon ships that have them like in the enterprise episode with the augments. When the ships power goes down the red grid flickers are loses power.
I concur with your statements on tech development and reaching a certain peak in that tech. Look at say Ford or Nissan trucks. When you think they are as advanced looking then they kinda go backwards a few steps in design while stepping up the supporting the new tech.
awesome video. anybody else struggle with romulan/clingon crossover due to the colour and bird themes?
My reading on the tanker ship is that maybe it's an older version of the D5, maybe a D3 or something that's old and they repurposed it as a tanker...?
You can see how... not rusty, I guess, but "discolored" it is, which makes me think it's old.
I'm curious at to your thoughts on Pierre Drolet's rejected redesign of the Bird of Prey for Into Darkness now.
I didn't know the retconned K'Tinga was to be ignored. I liked that design. But I suppose continuity wise it makes sense. 😔
I prefer D7 styled ships for old klingon designs
I will point out that a real world fleet oiler is about the size of a cruiser, while and oil tanker is a bulk liquid transport and is around the size of a battleship
If Starfleet noted that pylons and struts were vulnerable and evolved their ships to minimise that, why didn't the IKF?
The Vor'cha class for example still had many vulnerable spots that the "D" refit exploited in the episode, "All Good Things"
That was the Negh'Var class in All Good Things
Thx for the correction
The point stands
Klingon ships,look cooler than federation ships
Call me a snob but any Klingon ship that wasn’t designed by Matt Jefferies just doesn’t cut it with me. They all look like weak knock-offs. His original design had a definite alien sensibility to it. Like it was designed by another culture. I don’t feel that cultural aspect to any Klingon ship that came after it. Even the Bird-of-Prey from ST3. In fact, I remember saying, “Hey, that’s Romulan Ship!” the second I saw it on screen. (I saw ‘Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock’ opening day when it came out by the way)
How many D-7's do you think the Klingons had to give the Romulans for their cloaking technology?
Warlock359 *This will be pure cringe* OVER 9000!!!!
I think they just gave them 100 and the design schematics.
Bird of Prey like a frigate I guess
The back of the D5 looks like the wings and back of a bird of prey backwards .
It's funny how they call it the Klingon "Defense" Force, when it's clearly an offensive force. ;)
maybe it just sounds better besides the best defence is a good offence, could be a thing
Love those Klingon ships. I invite traditional Star Trek fans to enjoy a completely free novel, just Google Star Trek Lost Destiny.
Now you need to update this with those *marvelous* designs from Star Trek Discovery.
Sarcasm *OFF*
robbie: ", uh, ghotmeyvam yIn?"
bobbie: "toH, uh, tangqa' targh... pagh."
robbie: "QaQ guy, reH jon SoH rur, uh, rur yIn Sub?"
bobbie: "pagh."
robbie: "jech reH vInID SoH?"
bobbie: "ghobe'.."
robbie: "luq! vaj chay' 'e' chotmeH ghojmoH vIneH laH vIlegh!
QI'yaH!
mI' wa'
QI'yaH!
mI' wa'
DaH 'Ij SoQmoH
naDev 'oH neH toj loQ ghoj 'el qun
vaj chotmeH mI' wa' DaneH'a'
Sub mech Duj'e' qet Daghaj
neH vIH tlha' 'ej So’ umqu' ghot
yep wab chenmoH
(shh)
(ghobe' jIjangnIS 'e' Hot!)
[hook]
mI' wa'
QI'yaH!
mI' wa'
mI' wa'
Ha' Ha' Ha'
DaH legh net, neH vItu'
HeghDI' Ha' jatlh qatoy' chuH
jaH!
(jevtaHbogh lulan, wej jIH!)
(ugh, Ha' latlh vay' 'e' nID)
DaH legh yuQvetlh naDev Ha' ghoj 'ej
slip 'ej slide ghaH banan naH yub!
(Ha' Ha' Ha', gasp! nuq Davang!?)
ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
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ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
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ba-ba-biddly-ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba
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I do not really see the D7 by it´s look as a refined and advanced ship
compared to former klingon ships to be honest. Modern tanks for example
have MUCH MORE interial and exterior VISIBLE tech than older tanks,
which look simple in comparsion. D7 just looks to clean and simple
imo... But whatever, Merry X-Mas to you guys and keep up the good work!
JAGTHEGEMINI -
Guys do Ori Mothership please :-)
Maybe some have hull armour and some dont
This one star trek discovery
for me the transport ship looks quite klingon doesen't anyone realize the similarity to the detachable daughtercraft at the back of the vor'cha and negh'var class
It would be nice to see if it actually detached from something.
The klingon cargo ship wont be a civilian ship. The klingon fleet will have all its own support elements including cargo ships. They dont want to have to call their cousins brothers exs friend to use their civilian cargo ship to bring some supplies to the front line every time they go to war.
Donald Trump may help build a International Moon Base by 2030. Space 2099 Aliens disclosure..
warhammer 40k ships?
Love you guys but you took WAY to long to get into it
Bring back Star Trek 2 music please.
❤️🖖🇨🇦
From an evolutionary perspective [ and this is coming from 35 years of experience in the aerospace industry ] the D5 and Raptor are clearly AFTER the D7 .. WAY after the D7 .. there is no way the Klingons designed the D5 and Raptor and then designed the D4, D6 and D7 .. the D4, D6 and D7 are clunky and archaic compared to the D5 and Raptor .. the D4 and D6 designs are clearly after the D7 .. the D5 and Raptor are two generations after the D7 .. the D7 is an F4 .. the Raptor is an F15 .. the D5 is an F16 ..
CMDR you keep referring to all the combat ships of the DSF as BATTLESHIPS they are not. They are WARSHIPS not BATTLESHIPS. There are many types of warship, the Battleship is just one of them, the largest. Not trying to be an A**h**e just trying to help you be a little more correct.
Geeks aren't exclusively male, why abase female ones with a diminutive suffix?
Play star trek new horizons, stellaris
I HATE those ENT designs. Ugh.
og series klingon ship look fake graphic low
The guy with the glasses gives zero contribution to this discussion and he acts like a cornball.