Roasting NIGHTBANE, Lightlark's sequel (Alex Aster)
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2024
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it feels like every new fantasy/romantasy author is just Sarah J Maas in different fonts. Especially Rebecca Yarros.
(I haven't watched the video yet so this may be relating to a point in it that I haven't seen but) That's probably bc Maas took all the things everyone finds cool and dialed them up to eleven with no balance to the point nobody can stand them, only getting worse with each book. So when other people do the same, you immediately remember her, bc she's the worst example of that.
Edit: self-indulgent, is the word I was looking for
People may also see the success of her books and want to replicate that, so they may base their writing on her
as for Oro- I can’t take that character arc seriously. the last time a man made his love interest his ONLY interest he got fired from Try Guys. it feels fake and disingenuous for a reason (unless we’re playing it for creep factor, which - that’s fair)
I literally screenshot this comment and sent it to Will I thought it was so funny. - Maria
Honestly, the only good book sex scenes I’ve read come from writers who actually care about their craft. You can tell now when someone is writing FOR the tiktok reactions, FOR the tumblr quotes. It’s just aggressively unsexy lol
I have tried to get through some of these books and I just can't make myself do it. I'm so curious what are some examples of these types of sex scenes. Do you have titles and page numbers you'd mind sharing?
I like smut but I've never been able to read these tiktok spice girlie type books and I just want to know if I'm missing out
Sex scenes are just like every other part of a story: it needs to have a reason to be there, a meaning. Most of the time, sex scenes are a good way to add characterization and conflict since sex is naturally very emotional and has a level of intimacy. It makes for a good opportunity to get interesting characterization. To me, good smut needs to be less about the physical part of the sex, and more emotional part. It feels more emotionally connecting than to read about body parts smashing together. My fav smut scenes are basically character studies that take place while they’re doing the do.
But in booktok it feels very much on the nose. It’s all physical and nothing emotional. It lacks depth. It’s only there to be titillating and hot and for that, the characters lose depth as well.
Any good book recommendations for ones that have good sex scenes?
AGREED
Nightbane just made me want to fistfight Alex Aster in the Dennys parking lot. The sheer audacity to not even pretend to improve. I so badly want to rip into this again but id just be copypasting from every time I've already gone off.
The naming convention in this book series makes me picture some PR guy holding up his hands and saying, "Middle Grade-but make it sexy."
Now children remember to thank the nice people who read this and suffered for our entertainment
"his name isn't grimmjow, that's from Bleach". I CACKLED.
DON'T DIRTY OUR GRIMMJOW 🤣🤣🤣
Wait, wait, wait... They've forgotten how to grow crops and hunt because they stopped eating regular food, but also they all have companion animals.
Do they not feed them? Ever? Like, sure, they're all wild animals and can fend for themselves I guess, but still, nobody makes food for their animals anyway?
Sounds unrealistic that nobody has ever invented fancy pet food.
And then when she eats chocolate with grim she is reminded that she was had it before by wildling cooks, and I was liek :sorry wildling what?!
Reading this book on my Channel i think i could feel the place where the author completely gave up. Just... totally surrendered.
The animal bonding ritual sounds like something that should’ve been in the first book
when cervantes wrote in his sequel to don quixote, "sequels have never been good" he was actually talking about the modern state of romantasy/fantasy romance whatever
Every time you say "starling" I just think of the bird and it's so confusing like "all the other kingdoms were using the starlings as slaves" for what? laying eggs???
This made me chuckle hard. - Maria
Have the eggs stopped screaming, Clarice?
When I heard that one of lightlarks factions was called nightshade all I could think of was about how much cooler it would be if the author used plant/plant classification names instead of the -ling names. Like (a typically wild/uncontrollable plant) instead of wildlings, moonflower or some other thing associated with the night sky instead of starling, etc. alternatively you could make the names more specific to the curses/gifts. The wildlings can’t fall in love with people (I think), so the only person they can love without risk is themselves, maybe their name could be based of the narcissus flower. The starlings (I think) die at 25, then maybe they could be named Meadowgrass (a little obscure but it would make sense thematically-meadowgrass’s lifespan is quite short). And so on. There are so many more interesting ways to name the factions.
I found it SO unrealistic that two cultures - Wildling and Nightshade- had plants that were integral to their culture with very little lore around them. Wildlings didn’t even name the plant if I rememver corretly.
About the sex scenes: I think ACATOR and NIGHTBANE are just erotica. "Porn with Plot" as we tag it on AO3. But these books aren't marketed or labeled this way. And the fans are also coy about it. So readers who are expecting a proper story don't understand what they are getting into.
Exactly and it is predatorily labelled as YA
Um tge ACOTAR book had no smut actually. But I heard the books after do.
What do you mean? Lots of YA books especially paranormal talked about sex
@@zvikomboreromukamba3389there's a difference between "talked about sex" and "the entire 400+ pages are mostly about sex with barely 50 pages of plot connecting them"
Isla is a magikarp who discovers she was a gyarados all along.
As a winged lizard man myself, I would say my people were not accurately protrayed. 😢
I've started summarizing movie plots for my mother who refuses to watch them. And she always tells me, "That plot sounds terrible, but you retold it well."
Kinda like Maria trying to explain some of these book plots. 😂 Great Job.🍻
I have zero intention of reading this book, but I love you guys and I have unending chores to do so here I am
just a gentle reminder pillow princess is a lesbian term (and also not a bad thing in its proper context in the lesbian vernacular)
Lesbians do not own words. Please don’t police others language.
About spicy girl fantasies: no judgement for anyone who loves spice, but Tiktok has a huge porn addiction if one looks at the most popular books. And people will literally ask "spicy?" In comments of videos where people recommend very philosophical concepts of love (like two stars falling in love). It's annoying to me, because I like no to little spice.
I still don't understand how killing the ruler fixes the curse where everyone dies if the ruler dies.
Well, if no one's alive, there can't be a curse?
Nevermind gravitas it actually shouldn't be allowed for Isla to do the bonding ceremony cause if she dies her entire people die too, or are we not doing that anymore? 😅
I feel like I’m in this weird null space of wanting there to be spice in my reads, but hating almost ALL the spice I actually read. I want there to be emotional connection and intimacy, but all I get is a headache from trying to figure out where everyone’s limbs are.
Shoutout to the fanfic citrus scale 🤣
As a writer sex scenes are a no go, I will tease but fade to black, and the sex would mean something to the plot and story of the characters.
Yessss.
Unpopular opinion... sex scenes only belong in erotica. They're so pointless otherwise
The only (precious few) good sex scenes I've ever read are just conversations. Gene Wolfe's "Bed and Breakfast" is the prime example. It's basically all dialogue, consummated in one offhand sentence. All you need.
The best advice I was recently given is exactly this: only add the sex scene if is adding something to the plot. Otherwise it's just gratuitous and pulls the reader out of the story.
I read soooo much and in all the books I've read, I've only seen TWO sex scenes that served the story and weren't just pointless. I dunno... I used to be all about the sex but then I grew up and now I'm like: Ew. Do we have to? Haha. Not suggesting anyone who likes sex scenes is childish, btw, just that I, personally, grew out of them.
@@kitsong
Same
Marias ending was grimdark :O
Also the good out of that , might be grimm oro fanfics, as they really would be great enemies to lovers, with no creepy age gange, and even a light dark theme and be interesting. Like if oro said "i can fix him" it would be way more believable.
If isla had no relationship with either but grim mwas a weird uncle type and oro, a dad figure. And she gets on with cleo. that would be way better. and the oro grimm relationship is just between them.
Adding more gay doesn't always make /everything/ better, but it sure does tend to fix a lot of issues with badly written romances.
Something that drives me nuts about this book (that i havent seen anyone else mention) is that the epigraph at the beginning of the book is A) a sentence fragment and B) cherry-picked from a soliloquy where the main character is contemplating ending his life. The epigraph Aster selected reads "My bane and antidote, are both before me" and this is CLEARLY just meant to sound edgy because Grim is presented as Isla's "cure and poison". Either the epigraph was chosen based on buzzwords alone or no one involved in choosing the epigraph actually comprehended the context of the original quote. It's a small thing but I think it's an indicator of how much care went into the crafting of this book (which is to say none at all).
22:43 for a moment there I thought Killing Katie Slowly was the title of the book! 😂
Same here 😂 took me a second
pillow princess is a lesbian term and not inherently negative, just thought you should know :)
y'all are the best ambience to writing philosophy papers, thank you for existing
If you ever do a rewrite, here's my idea for the wildling curse. I'd say they were vegetarians because they're closely connected to animals and their power is to grow things. The curse is they're forced to eat an animal heart every week to stay alive. Morally hurts them, forces them to go against their beliefs, forces them to kill beings they love, but not as unrealistic as eating only hearts.
I ❤ UTT so much! It's super satisfying to watch/listen to as a reader, but it's also an amazing resource for writers. Tbh, before finding UTT, I'd pretty much given up on booktube because it always left my mind starved and disappointed. So much of it was just book hauls, lengthy aesthetically silent reading vlogs, colorful bookshelf tours, etc. (Btw I'm not saying there's anything wrong w/that kind of content if you're into it. It's simply not for me.) Warning: Incoming 🧀. UTT has been the biggest breath of fresh air imo. I laugh. I think. I catch creativity. I feel moved to write fascinating characters with layers and depth. I want to create weird worlds and magical creatures. Most of all I feel a sense of community like I never have before. UTT is pure joy to me. My happy place when life gets too dark/heavy. Spending 1-3hrs peeling back the layers of a book with a fantasic group of genuine ppl, discussing literature in nontoxic good faith, and watching literary hilarity ensue is the best time ever. I'm so grateful that I found this channel bookclub podcast and I wish UTT all the nontoxic growth and success they can handle. Nobody is more deserving imo. ❤❤❤
Omg STAHP IM DYING.
Thanks so much!! - Maria
❤❤❤@@unresolvedtextualtension
The thumb nail made it look like the book is called NightBang. And then it's starts with Will and Maria talking about sex. So as the video went on, I was surprised to find it wasn't smut. So I guess it subverted expectations?
Also I don't know if she planned it but Maria's shirt matches her room so well. It's a vibe.
Also how Maria's camera shows her whole room, while Will's camera is very much so just his face. Nothing else to look at. Is he a narcissist? I don't blame him, extremely ruggedly handsome.
Also thanks for reviewing books I don't read so I'm able to expand my knowledge of literature without having to read ten books at a time.
I love you guys.❤
i mean, is it really being a narcissist if you're right?
I am more fascinated when a story has a difficult rule or setting that affects the MC MORE than everyone else. For instance, if Isla had to struggle through eating hearts and ending her lovers, it shows her character more than her being the exception. To borrow a leaf from Avatar, Aang struggled through a whole year of being quick an witty so as not to take a life, and in the end still couldn't take a life. THAT is what shows character. Imagine Isla describing eating a heart, and ending a lover to eat his heart (two birds, one stone)
Fiiiiiish. Oh wait wrong video 😅 Also, totally forgot this sequel was coming out...
I have been waiting so long for this
Oh I’ve been WAITING for this! Next hour sorted, phone set to Do Not Disturb, let’s go!!
I didn't read the books, but ine thing that always confuaes me from hearing the curses is "everyone dies at 25", because like what do families look like? Because unless you have a person give birth before 18, the kids will be parentless before they turn 8.
I just wanna say, your review of Three Parts Dead convinced me to buy it and it was great! Hadn't read a fantasy in a long time and y'all got me back into it, so I just wanted to say thanks!
Nightbane: boring, hard to follow, "the sex scenes are overly sexual for the rest of the content and emotional caliber of the characters..."
My heart loves Lightlark DESPITE my brain and the Lightlark video was a good explanation why. Nightbane is disappointing because there was no growth in the writing if not an example of the writing worsening possibly because of success and/or even lack of genuine professional writting support. I was still able to finish Lightlark and Nightbane compared to DNF'ed ACOTAR in the first chapter (watched caricanread to recap) and actively hate the fact I finished Fourthwing.
Thank you for your thoughts and critiques as always :)
Fish! Thanks for reading and discussing this book for us. Have a lovely day!
I live for your uploads! 😫 As usual, thank you guys! Sarah J Maas's new series is really popping off. I really want to know what all the hype is about, but I only trust you guys to tell me 🤣 I hope you'll do a video on Crescent City soon! Much lovee
7:25 (ish) These people just want to read their porn while pretending it's not porn so they can still look down their nose at people who consume it in its more overt forms.
Yeah, but IT leads to an unsatistactory experience in all sides
9:50 - OK, THIS is where I agree on the sex scene thing! Because I have no problem with sex scenes in books...if they aren't super cringe, and they actually do something for either the plot or character development. And they CAN! I have seen it done well. But...there are a lot of books that throw in spice for spice's sake, and one is left wondering "didn't you guys have to fight a dragon or something?"
This podcast is criminally underrated! I loved this episode!
I screamed in excitement to see this video
In this genre, it feels like the spicy scenes are a trend that is shoehorned in. It reminds me of other trends in YA when you seemed to have a lot of subpar books that were captilizing on what was big at the time. IMO, you could just tell that the author's heart wasn't in it sometimes. I read tons of spicy books as well as spend plenty of time on the extremely smutty side of AO3 and I still hate these scenes in the YA/NA genre. I'll give a shoutout to the Scholomance series for bucking this trend. In the last book there is more of a lime vs lemon scene but its purposeful and meaningful. I really loved it as it showed a different idea of what intimacy can mean. It was genuinely thought-provoking.
I appreciate you guys suffering for our entertainment ;)
Let me tell you, I was getting a bit impatient waiting for people to rip into Nightbane after listening to a bunch of Lightlark ones, so I bit the bullet and got a copy myself for Christmas so I could get a feel for if there was any improvement or if it was just as bad.
I actually kind of enjoyed it at first, because it felt like the author had listened to the complaints of the first book and was trying to do better (ex. show Isla struggling more, use Azul more, how the rules of the land work, etc). I also liked Oro as a character and wanted to know more about him, and I thought it was sweet that he was more concerned with getting Isla better and wanted to hold off on anything physical until he was sure it was for the right reasons. However, the further I got into the book, the more I realized it wasn't going to get any deeper or explore much further and that the author was clearly more interested in the flashback segments than the current day ones. It was too glaringly obvious that Grim was endgame, and of course he had to have a secret reason that made him not evil at all and really all they needed to do was communicate, but of course, they can't do that, because the twist needs to happen near the end. The characters and the story and the lore are all secondary to preserving the twists, and that's the biggest flaw that I can think of at the moment. Also, the seemingly endless supply of this "super rare" flower and the overuse of the elixir really bothered me.
On the note of ACOTAR comparisons, I'm a Tamlin sympathizer, and I guess Oro's getting added to that camp of "love interests who got shafted for not being cool enough I guess."
This was the best fish video I've ever seen! :)
i think its bc acotar was such a well written book and everyone loves it so much that they compared the two book series which isnt fair bc acotar will always be one of the best romantasy books however i agree that the lightlark series was poorly written and thought out
I thought the twist at the end was that Grim was somehow Cleo’s kid which I hated but still would’ve been better than them sharing his soul and being married or whatever
6:04 I’ve been saying this for years!!! I only like Sex Scenes in books when it’s relevant to the plot and/or the relationship of the characters, I hate when there’s a lot of sex scenes in a book because it comes off as a lot of filler to me and doesn’t move the plot along
Yeah, I am usually uncomfortable with Sex scenes AS an aro Ace but there are some spicy scenes I really really liked, cause either I was really invested in the characters, so Inwas Just Happy for them and IT was really really written to those characters, or IT was plain interesting, cause IT was so Personal to the characters. So If I really enjoy a character, I probably will enjoy a Sex Scene with them If IT IS written to still be characterising them. But in so so many cases thats Not what Happens, the characters vanish in e Sex Scene thats only there cause the authors thought that what they where supposed to do and then they mechanically follows a Stock scribt of whatever the authors thinks IS hot and ITS weird and . . . .I Just really Wish IT was Not a thing
Okay but was the star stick described what it looked like in this book?
I started reading Gideon because of you guys. How dare you introduce me to cosmic horror necromancy! (I kid. Loving it so far.)
I think the issue with the sex scenes in books is that the main characters don't have chemistry, and or their relationships is really one sided. If I write a sex scene I usually write it on the assumption people know what sex is. They know how it feels, how it works, and how it looks. If you don't have this information, then you might find it boring. But I find that trying to "make" it sexy, or alluring kinda kills it. You can't get any sexier than sex.
I also do things like after-care, consent, and lube. Because to me that's also a part that tends to get forgotten about, and we know that doesn't happen. Tbh it feels weird to not do it. I write fantasy so condoms don't have to exist lol.
Wait, there's a a sequel? Shiiiiiit
First time i heard about the original book i thought it was going to be more like Mortal Combat. That would have been cool.
Honestly, the you get the powers of who loves you could have been interesting is someone really thought about all tge implications and used it propperly
I felt tricked/pressured into buying book 1, so I'll pass on the sequel.
"mind candy with some spice" so red hotz? jokes.
i'm just so far past reading smut. if i wanna read sex then i'm going to literotica, which i find often does do character and themes romance and romantasy really well. this romantasy smut really does feel like erotica for babies (not in a weird way)
no judgement on other ppls preferences...well a little bit of judgement...it's just not for me
Literotica really does have a surprisingly good amount of actually well written sci-fi/fantasy that just happens to include good smut.
1:00:44 You mean like...A Court of Law and Order?
Just realized that if everyone dies at 25, then everyone would be an orphan by the age of 7...😳
A most well-functioning society, indeed...
I would love to know y’all’s opinions of The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
13:21 to 13:23 needs to be looped as a ringtone. Money, I'm telling you.
the baby dragon was there for the one scene and never again or before. it still distresses me so much that it happened
Tbh I was kinda excited when the first book ended with Oro cause most of the time, in YA books, it's the moody dark emo boy who ends up with the girl so I was pleasantly surprised. Now I am utterly disappointed that Isle(?) has ended up with Grim YET AGAIN💀
Fish AGAIN? 😂 Next time I expect a fish tank in someone's background!
This is one of those books that I haven't read but I've seen a few reviews, including a read-along and from the excerpts I've heard there, it seems incredibly "tell-y". Important stuff happens off page, like when she goes to rally a bunch of people for support in the upcoming war and it's done in two sentences. It detracts from the importance of the event while the author spends a bunch of time in those flashbacks where Isla keeps getting assaulted one way or another. My final impression at the end was that too much and too little paradoxically happened at the same time. In theory, there was a lot of plot, but nearly no time was allocated to it so I struggled to remember much of it because the love triangle was actually the most important thing the book wanted to deal with.
Also, I don't mind spice in my books but it's not a requirement. I'd rather a good book with a nice world, characters and plot and if it leaves me thirsty, there's always AO3. 600+ pages of overwritten crap just to get one or two badly done spicy scenes is a waste of time.
Wait, so, the Wildling curse didn't affect her because she was half Nightshade? Does this mean that the other curses can be avoided just by having children with different nations?
Apparently its literally impossible according to Oro
So either he's wrong and he somehow missed this mutant child being born with two powers
Or she's so special that a 600 year old God-King can't figure out why she's the way she is in all of his years of ruling.
As yall described Oro and Isla’s physical contact, all I could think of was -
“Christian Side Hug! Leave room for Jesus!” XD
she shouldve named the book nightnark
Ngl, I just spent 95% of the book 1 recap falling down an Amazon rabbit hole trying to find Maria's lovely cardigan and getting sidetracked by kawaii phone cases. I now occupy the same boat as Will. I have no memory of this place. 😄
My cardigan is about 30 years old. It was my one mom’s and I’ve been trying to steal it for YEARS and this past Christmas she surprised me by giving it to me. It is indeed an excellent cardigan. - Maria
Im so glad I didn’t bother with these books. I read the ACOTAR trilogy. I don’t need a rip-off of an already crappy series
How do you come up with names for places, magic relics and characters?
Katie manage to escape reading lightlark? Lucky her.
Y'all say you want a good book with fantastic prose and premise : please do read "the one who eats monsters"
It's supposed to be book 1 in a series but sadly the author didn't continue it . But it doesn't have such an ending as to require a follow up book. It would be more to explore the lore. Author Casey Matthews
The next book should be Isla leaving Oro for a winged lizard-man.
You should read The Tainted Cup, by Robert Bennett. Very entertaining.
I think the biggest problem with these types of indie books is that the author is just too green. Their prose is pretty good but the reason the story itself feels too middle school is because the author hasn’t mastered the fundamentals of the craft.
Is rage the peak of Wills negative feelings towards books or is there a other side where he is just in deep agony without even being able to hate the book?
So fun little stupid fact about the "main" conflict of the story. In the first book it's comfirm that oro being an origin he has a fundamental connection to light lark. Lightlark also has a fundamental connection to everyone else in their world. If light lark dies, everyone dies. If oro dies, light lark will die.
Grim wants to get the fucking portal on lightlark. He's even willing to kill oro for it.
The skylings don't want to put their people in danger so they abandon lightlark and oro.
Once again if ORO dies, everyone is fuck. It's maddening.
I wanna headcanon that Grim is on a suicide pact to try and kill some eldritch demon living inside the planet, and he can't actually tell anybody or else they're yoinked or something
Thats the only way I can make sense of this, otherwise its just a goddamn mess. Its the book equivalent of spaghetti code, you basically have to go rewrite the whole thing to make it start working better
I've got no problem with spicy scenes, most make me laugh. I like fade to black more, hint at it. 'I needed this, I wanted this. The bask was as fun as the act itself.' Maybe that is because I'm a guy.
This sounda absolutely painful even to listen to. I cant imagine the strength u have to finish this disaster.
Fish
"This is such a nothing of a book" and it really sounds like it. Correct me if I'm wrong, since you're the experts here, but Aster seems to have the same writing habit of Maas where she'll just write things in and never explain it in a sufficient manner. This new aspect is just there now, deal with it. As well, Aster also appears to write something without going back and fixing something earlier for this new Thing to work and make sense. This is just an extrapolation from me as I've watched your videos, because I've never read from either author.
He knows the glory of the Omnissiah!!!!
*screeching in binary*
When I first learned the weakness of my flesh it disgusted me...
i think you’re confusing pillow princess with starfish? starfishing is when u just lay there. pillow princess however is a lesbian term, for lesbians who receive but don’t reciprocate, usually paired w a stone top, so both partners are still participating. and it doesn’t have the negative connotations that starfishing does
I wish I could show you my cursed Grim/Snape edit. You'd hate it.
her names KILL ME. first of all. Isla Crown. and then the fact that we only half know Oro and Grim's last names because of the ancestors mention. We don't even know any one else's last name, which is horrifying to me. and then the whole. Sunling Lightlark Newlands etc etc.
What happened to Katie??
Katie and I sometimes sit out an episode if we are busy or we already filmed a video that weekend (in this case Katie filmed a critique stream with Will the day before) - Maria
OOOOH! Just found your channel this week and binged a bunch of episodes with Katie.
I usually skip Sex scenes AS an aro Ace I do Not get anything Out of them in themselfs, but there are Sex scenes that I genuinly liked cause they where masterpices of characterisation and relationship development. Where I was so invested in the characters Inwas Happy for them, or at least very interesting cause Just how they where written was Not cheap for Sex sells, but so very personalised for that Story and those characters in a way that avoids you Feeling Like learning more then you ever wanted about the authors kinks. IT IS so so rare, but you can Tell so much about characters in how they act in a Sex Scene, where the authors actually thought carefuly about IT instead of trying to make IT extra steamy or Just added them, cause they felt Like they should
YES!!! Good sex scenes are personalized to the characters in the story. Louder for the people in the back!
I’m sex disinterested so I’m just so bored with random sex scenes.
it's so funny to see so many mediocre fantasy books that already struggle with juggling All The Things decide that making it a multiverse is the solution
There is better smut for free on ao3 is always my thing. If you're gonna have spice, write better.
#fish
this comment tricks the machine brain into thinking i think UTT rocks
Man Will would absolutely hate the stuff I'm writing. Look, i appreciate erotica and funnily enough i like writing sex scenes, they make me giggle. But like, you really have to put in the emotional work so the scenes make sense and too many of these ya adjacent romantasy books have no interest in that
Why couldn’t she name them Nightlings?
Bc it's too close to Darkling and that's too close to stealing.
@@sabrinabeeart what is Darkling
It’s time for y’all to do The Darkness that Come Before.
Get on some REAL BOOKS! And not these little waste of time books 😁
I can usually follow y’all’s summaries but this was so hard to follow. I can’t imagine how exhausting this was to read while simultaneously being so boring. How can you have so much going on and nothing happening?! 🤦🏾♀️