Roasting A COURT OF WING AND RUIN for nearly 2 hours (Sarah J. Maas)
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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Sorry Katie, watching you tear up about Tamlin getting screwed over was both hilarious and deeply relatable. I am a Tamlin apologist not in a “he did nothing wrong” way but in a “why should I even care about the things he did wrong when the framing and actions are clearly contrived by the writer to make him look as bad as possible” way. We stand together ✊
It's so contrived! Not that I don't believe stories that that are valuable, I would honestly appreciate a story involving the kind of relationship struggles Tamlin and Feyre go through, but one that is handled more delicately, more realistically. I don't look at Tamlin's issues and see a dude struggling and inevitably failing. I see the magical hand of the author, moving things around so she can get her 'ship' together. Also, hate Rhysand. He's so...ugh.
FOR REAL katie getting so emo and angry im like !! I KNOW!! THIS IS ALL SO STUPID BUT IT MAKES ME SO MAD! anyway everyone watch the 1970 pulp folk thriller flop 'ballad of tam lin' / 'the devil's widow' that somehow manages to have more emotional depth than this with orange 60s sunglasses and feathery boas on
Sameeee. If only this story was in the hands of a better writer
Stephenie Meyer 🤝 Sarah J Maas
Writing character assassinations completely out of the blue to get their main boy to the forefront
Yesss agreeddd🎉🎉
I wanna point something out that happens in ACOSF that totally makes sense: Tamlin locked Feyre in his manor and became the villain. In Nesta’s book, Rhysand keeps a “protective shield” around pregnant Feyre not allowing her to do anything, thereby becoming another Tamlin 🤯
As a struggling fantasy writer myself, seeing books like these get a huge fanbase and a tv series on Hulu is both discouraging as hell and encouraging.
Um….what -Katie
@@unresolvedtextualtensionyeah, Feysand is completely butchered in Silver Flames to make way for Nessian. The best part is that the fans notice the toxicity of Rhysand for once
Yeah, that book is both my favorite and least favorite. I personally loved Nesta's journey, but the continuous character assassination is ridiculous.
@@freshbrewedasmr3378
There were actually different kinds of fans reacting to that book:
1. The ones who excused everything Rhys did and saw no problems with it
2. The ones who called Rhys out and finally noticed his shitty behaviour
3. The ones who started ranting and raging about how ooc Rhys was and that he would never do that
And I was just laughing at them like "how does it feel?"
When Tamlin got demolished it was apparently part of the story, but when their fav gets ruined it's bad writing and ooc?? Cry harder honestly.
And still most people defend Rhysand, even after all that😒
Even more glaring than that: Feyre says in ACOMAF that nobody told Rhys the villain is the one who locks up the maiden, and he was the hero because set her free. But then our Feminist King™️ locks up Nesta and Feyre is like, yep, she deserves it because her trauma is manifesting in a more embarrassing way than mine did. Get over it, Nesta!
The reason this book falls so flat I think is because the story Maas was actually developing - the love story between her main character - already ended in the second book. Now all that is left for this book is heaps of underdeveloped plot threads and random side stories. The threat of Hybern is never properly built up - their motives, their strengths, generals they have to look out for, strategies they need to make. Nothing.
Also, I HATED Feyre after this book. I dont think it get talked enough how not only did she destroy Spring Court for no good reason, realistically causing the deaths of thousands of innocent people just so she could get back at her ex----She also helped the enemy! Look at the map: Spring is right next to the Wall, the only thing protecting the human lands and the thing Hybern wanted to destroy, but also shared boarders with Summer Court and Autumn Court. By causing the Spring Court to collapse, Feyre has given Hybern a means to raid Spring unopposed and take hold of arguably the most advantageous position in the war at the cost of thousands of innocent lives. Well done, Feyre.
As Cercie Lannister once asked, "Do you know what happens when a city gets sacked?"
Even if Tamlin was 'helping' Hybern, which we find out he wasnt, his army would still have acted as a buffer to keep Hybern from taking full control.
It would have been different if it was Night Court invading Spring. But no, it was the enemy. She could have started a revolt and rallied forces to fight off Hybern from Spring, but no she just left them to die. On top of which, Spring Court citizens see her as some sort of holy figure. It's just so sad! It's horrible. Feyre is horrible. And stupid.
As Tyrion Lannister once said "there have been idiot kings. There have been vicious kings, but I dont think we've ever been cursed with a vicious idiot."
Also--I cant remember if it's in this book or book 2 --when Rhysand and Feyre go to the Bone Carver and he tells them 'Tell me a secret you never told another' Rhysand really just tells the guy, "I have an old injury which acts up every now and then" and the narration really just pauses to let us appreciate how clever Rhys is. Bro, you're going to war. That wasnt clever. That was really, REALLY stupid. In the hands of another writer it would have been a sort of checkov's gun, to show up in a fight. Or better yet, never have it at all. But no, Maas really thought this was a clever comeback.
And Rhys depleting all his uber powerful magic right before the final battle.
These characters really did put their all in trying to lose this war. Yet despite their best efforts, somehow they still win because the secondary characters didnt get the memo, and actually fought to win.
It's all so stupid.
I didnt like Tamlin in the first book but if this series has done one thing, it has made me root for the guy I should hate. He deserved better.
The main characters are just such terrible people who are just so convinced they are good and so everything they do has to be good, no matter if it it hurts innocent people and benefits only them.
(I tried adding a few GOT quotes in honor of Will, though I haven't seen the show or read the books. Please go easy on me)
And give Katie an out to drink away the pain of the Maasening before the next trash fire.
Yes exactly. Maas can’t write a coherent plot to save her life, she's so busy writing fanfiction that she never learned how to plot a story with stakes, motivations, etc. She clearly writes backwards and comes up with flimsy reasons for the plot to happen because she only cares about romance scenes and sex scenes.
Except the romance is hollow because we don't like the characters. In addition, Maas loves her characters too much to put them in genuine danger.
Same with what Will said, she's a Capital H Hack.
oh my god yess yess this is what i feel and this pod and ur comment finally put it into words
I quit reading because of the way the author massacred Tamlin’s character in the name of Rhys’s and Feyra’s all encompassing love that was not just attraction but mating made in heaven so they really had no choice and Tamlin was just an intro to the ✨True Love✨. You can clearly see how Maas is manipulating you to turn on Tamlin so Feyra gets an excuse to be an asshole guilt free.
And I fully agree with what you said about Feyra’s ruining of the Spring Court enabling the King of whatever to ride freely straight to the human land
It's crazy that all of SJM interesting characters are clearly NOT her favorite but are also the most emotionally complex and would've been awesome characters in the hands of a better writer.
It's interesting that Will says Nesta is SJM's new favourite charater and a Mary Sue now. I never thought so. To me it always felt like Nesta outgrew the author and she had to be punished for that (in the next book mainly), pushed to behave and basically made into Feyre 2.0 so she could be accepted into the "family" and the story. In the end it feels like Internalized misogyny. SJM likes only a certain type of woman. But I do agree that SJM did not plan on her being a bigger character when she created her in the first book and then just went on with it hoping no one would notice.
Idk I am biased bc I love Nesta, one of the reasons being she was the only one not kissing Rhysand's ass and worshiping the ground Feysand was walking on. She resisted as long as she could, but of course a character like that cannot exist in the world of SJM, everyone has to love Rhysand/Feysand or become an enemy lol.
Also idk if you've read her Throne of Glass series, but the latter books were written at the same time the ACOTAR books were, and there were many similarities between them (and the characters, omg they were copies). And her adult fantasy series seems also like a copy of her other stuff, a weird mishmash. And by now it looks like SJM decided it would be a good idea to do a Maasverse, aka her own crossover between ACOTAR and the Crescent City series, which to me is just bonkers. Some people wanted to just read a detached "adult" fantasy but now you will have to read all the ACOTAR books too to understand who that guy Rhysand is (I guess it's a good cash grab tho?). But given her wing kink, and the fact that she has another series where a dude with feathered wings is the love interest, I guess it's kind of natural she would like to combine the two, because these people are basically clones.
Anyway, this was a great listen, thank you.
100% agree ACOSF is gaslighting and internalised misogyny central.
Oh my god yes, this. ACOSF was literally just SJM humiliating Nesta and “putting her in her place” as a feysand-loving s*xdoll. (Spoilers incoming) Feyre and Rhysand stripped her of her home and had it demolished, imprisoned her atop a mountain with the man they wanted her to f**k, forced her to join the military, forced her to accept mating to a guy who purposefully triggered her trauma all the time, forced her to give up her powers for the almighty dumbass feysand, and don’t get me started on all of the degrading sex scenes and the way the narrative degraded Nesta as a whole.
Plus, if you narratively try to justify withholding medical information from a pregnant woman about her own body, you done messed up. Rhysand is an ungodly amount worse than Tamlin, a truly, deeply evil ab*ser. Horrendous.
UGH, the way Maas treats the characters who don't worship the ground her Chosen Ones walk on! Chaol and Aedion got stomped on the same way in Throne of Glass. And Lysandra was also an interesting character who got turned into Aelin 2.0.
This series seems to be an example of an author writing up lots of horrible things happening or having to be done because it's fun and dramatic BUT not actually going through the emotional journey part of it - pausing to think about what such things would do to people - so that the characters would actually grow and change and be different at the end.
It also serves as an excellent example of why it's SO important to read books that are rich in worldbuilding, characters, and plots. If you haven't been exposed to a plethora of really good books that explore deep themes and take you on true journeys, your writing will inherently suffer.
Sadly there is a whole generation of young authors now who seem to have never read much if anything outside of modern YA (SJM likewise started writing when she was about 16). And it's showing. A noticeable number of fantasy books released in the last 1-2 years were sold as adult, but the only thing that made them so is the age of the characters, sex and swearing. And even the characters often still behave like teenagers in most ways. There are just a number of tropes or writing choices that scream YA, but readers and those writers alike think it's how all books are written.
It used to be that teenagers started reading adult books at some point when they ran out of the more limited selection of youth books. But now that's happening less or later. And if that were only about readers that would be ok, but as said it's really starting to affect writers too. It's really depressing to think about.
Guys I read an article, that speculated that Tamlin was based of Mass's then boyfriend, and Feyra on herself.
During the second book her boyfriend and her broke up. And, her boyfriend is the one who broke it off. So, she no longer wanted to write about 'Tamlin' i.e her boyfriend self insert.
Her personal grudge, so why she hates Tamlin so much, Feyra hates Tamlin so much. That could be a reason why everyone hates Tamlin in the book while he was the only character that truly cared for Feyra. His character assassination was unbelievable.
And his characteristics were given to Rhysand. He taught her to write and read, even though Tamlin was the one who does that before.
Tamlin appreciated Feyra's paintings and brought her paint as gift. She got angry at that BeCaUsE she didn't like painting anymore, did she tell that to him? No.
Tamlin stopped her from using her powers because she could have been literally killed. But Rhysand puts her in danger by letting her use her powers.
Tamlin tried to save Feyra so much but he's a villain now. And that guy who drugged her, made her dance senusal, made her sit on his lap without her consent. That guy is actually good. He did all that to DISTRACT HER. She forgives all that but not Tamlin, who did everything to save Feyra when he thought she was kidnapped by the guy who assaulted her.
I think Feyra was like so much lively in the first book. Now she feels like a charactor of a power hungry tyrant. Basically Gaslight, girlboss, gatekeep princess.
I think it would have been wonderful if Nesta was the lady of the night court. Like Even Rhysand had a character assassination, he became a Tamlin 2.0; if in the second book Nesta and Rhysand teamed up and ruled the night court it would have been amazing. Like she was brave, courageous, and smart. Now shes a Feyra 2.0
do you have the link to the article?
Thank you, this makes so much sense now - the abrupt and total character assassination of Tamlin’s character.
Nope. She's been married to her husband since just after university. She's just a bad writer lol.
Sarah J. Maas' career as a "fantasy author" is the Dunning-Kruger effect amplified by a factor of 10 thanks to money. There I said it.
Or cough cough…Nepotism cough cough.
Personally , I never liked her books.
@YeeHeee
Yooooooo!! Based fellow Obey Me fan!
Is this the book where the growls of pleasure drown out the cries of the injured and dying or is that another one?
God, I can't believe we forgot to mention that.
--Will
@@unresolvedtextualtension I was waiting for someone to bring it up 😭😭😭
the very one where she gives him a blowjob in the war tent? yeah
wtf people, I haven't even read the book but maybe stop fucking and try to help the dying?
I thoroughly enjoyed you three taking turns to torture each other as a coping mechanism for the trauma inflicted by Maas. I can’t believe Will tried to tell me torture isn’t effective
My Childhood fear: Getting eaten by Werewolves.
My Adulthood fear: Publishing my manuscript and having it end up on this podcast.
At the rate I'm writing it, both of those scenarios are fictitious.
I find it funny how they want Lucian is forced to stay away with Elain "no you can't do that her." but with the bat boys and their mates. "It's fine"
They were controlling Lucian
I've only learned about this series via long reviews like this and a couple others, and I gotta say - as they mentioned in this video - Lucien was probably the most Done Dirty character. Just constantly getting the short end of the stick, and I can't understand for what purpose.
Thank you for calling out how bad it was that Feyre defends Rhys’ sass at inappropriate times. I feel like it further supports the idea that the author wants to invalidate people’s trauma bc it makes them react negatively and only validate people’s trauma when it makes them act positively.
RIGHT! I really hate this idea of...toxic overcoming, I suppose. That characters, especially women, who go through terrible things just need to change their attitude about the experience, need to make the best of it, move past it, think positively, and if they do SUDDENLY the world will respond better to them in return. It's bypassing of trauma pure and simple. It suggests the reason you're continuing to suffer is because you have a bad attitude about it. That's not how the world works and isn't relatable to a majority of people's real experiences with abuse and trauma.
Though, I understand in terms of a moving narrative, a character that is more active and proactive is more appealing to read about rather than a passive character. And trying to tell people they must work to overcome their struggles isn't inherently a bad piece of advice. But these stories can definitely be done better, and should be.
After reading the bonus chapter in the novella my opinion of Rhys completely changed, and doesn’t get better with Nesta and Cassians book. He threatened Azriel to stay away from Elaine all the while Feyre is threatening Lucien to stay away from Elaine , why is the traditionally feminine sister treated like such a child
"Existentially it's difficult to grapple with the fact that a lot of people are stupid" 😂😂😂
Something really odd I realized with mates is that almost all of the mates in the parental generation (Rhysand’s parents, Tamlin’s parents, Lucien’s parents) are awful with each other but all of the the mates in this generation of this people are treated like the epitome of love and romance, most of the mating pairs are perfect for each other and any romantic partners seem like they are about to come out as mates at any second.
i find it both insane and hilarious how Maas has absolutely zero regard for reader expectations or just, like, providing a satisfying reading experience for her audience? she just does whatever the fuck she wants and, on one hand, i respect her dedication to writing the story she wants to write. but on the other hand, she deserves to be in FEDERAL PRISON 😭😭
I really thought you ended this comment on "with one hand" cause theres just so much smut 💀
“The book is almost like an eggshell without a yolk inside.”
I love how true this is. Also, the yolk is stuck inside “Lightlark”
The yolk is powering Lightlark
you could say... it wasn't a yolky thing
The first book makes you laugh at it, the second infuriates you, and the third makes you feel dead inside. Having this come full circle, I feel avenged. Have to agree that it offends me more because it is generally considered to be a “high fantasy”, “good” book. Thanks again, for this.
in an interview, Maas did just casually use the word male. its just her brain setting. she said she likes the primal, animalistic things. the blend between human and animal, sort of in context of sexual things. and when she writes, she does not shy away from this and does not care to explore anything else. so none of her books surprise me, but i also didn't read them past a few of her first series.
okay, new thing I want to look up now: interviews
@@SalayaSkystone its interesting how some writers are the tip of the iceberg and have a lot of hidden depths they explore in book form. while others are what you see is what you get. one look at them and you understand why their books are so shallow.
My friend told me SJM was originally inspired by Howl's Moving Castle while writing ACOTAR and the fact that one of my favourite books was in any way an inspiration for this, is making me feel unreasonably insulted.
Watching Katie go ferel over our sad piece of toast's moment to shine get ripped away from him 😆😆😆
I was so cranky when the literal death-gods died for ??? (really just the Weaver, like the Bone-Carver dying because of the conflict between death and creation due to the Cauldron's power makes sense, but the Weaver just dies like a normal person would like ????)
and then (spoilers for later in the series) it was so cool to have Nesta become a death-god out of her sheer fury while being turned into an immortal fae (taking by force what she feels was denied her - the ability to grow old and die like other humans) how terrifying would it be if Nesta's death powers were to do with accelerating time (killing via aging)
...and then in her book not only does she give it up for Feyre and Rhysand and their kid, she gets a blessing from the goddess of that world who literally changes her pelvis so she can bear children without dying
Edit: I feel the pain, I too loved Tarquin (and other characters like Nesta) and think they deserve a better series
Watching Katie slowly die inside the further we went into this book was too relatable! Thank you guys for reading this and providing a fun and well thoughtout reaction to this.
You should 100% read the novella only because of what she did to Tamlin in the book. It's absolutely insulting considering how this book ended and i feel as though SJM has no insight into writing trauma or complex characters!
I’m so sorry Katie. 1:36:02 onward really got me. I couldn’t help myself from laughing with Maria, but also being incredibly sad with Katie. I can’t believe Maas put this stuff in the books either. And it makes me incredibly frustrated.
To me the ONLY complex character so far in this series with so much depth is Tamlin hands down. And I think SJM has done it by accident because I agree with Katie, she definitely isn't intelligent enough to understand there are shades of gray. Regardless, I'd read the crap out of a book about Tamlin tbh.
Now that the Court of Maas and Pain is over with, ya’ll should go ahead and read Throne of Glas because there are certain things that are just as funny as in ACOTAR
So did Lucien also not know Tamlin wasn’t actually on Hybern’s side? Because I would think Lucien would know something like that and would tell Feyre and Rhys while in Velaris with them!!!! Woulda saved a whooooole lot of trouble and time
What you mentioned at the beginning (with the ending of the second book being ignored) seems to be a problem with Fantasy Romance as a genre in general. They aren't fantasy books with a heavier than usual focus on romance. Which is something I'd be fine with. They are Romance books with the trappings of fantasy. The romance is what drives the books. The plot will bend over backward to make sure two people get together. It doesn't have to be that way, but that's the convention that developed.
This is a hot take, but I feel like just letting Feyre kill Tamlin in book one and then adding a sister or cousin or something for him that would be forced to be High Lady would have probably fixed a lot of Tamlin's bullshit arc. I feel like it would have been interesting to read that sister or cousin hate Feyre and take her anger out on her for believing that she caused all of her pain and misery from the system not made for her. She could have also betrayed Feyre to Hybern out of that anger, which would backfire and then force her to look within and come to terms with what she did. It would also be interesting to see how that character would grow and handle the social status she was not raised or born to take (similar to Tamlin but obviously different) vs Feyre and how she becomes High Lady of the Night Court. It could have been an interesting story and dynamic if Maas was a more skilled and better writer/analytical thinker.
this is my first book that angers me so much, it put me in a reading slump. Thank you so much for your reactions, I actually feel better bc I feel so wronged with Tamlin's assassination
Insulting Maas's writing is my religion. I'm planning on making videos about her books myself, but I can't bring myself to finish the last Throne of Glass book lmao
Edit: TO BE FAIR THO her action scenes are actually pretty good and catching. To this day I'm surprised at how interested I was in the escape from the castle of glass in ToG... 4??? Idk, it all blends together in my memory. But it was actually good. (She did ruin it with the temple battle with the witches later, but that's because she literally described 0% of the place we'd never been to, so I was confused most of the way through.)
Please, please, I beg you, please do or include a comparison of ACOTAR+ and Black Jewels.
I've been thinking on and off about doing a side by side through the books for a webpage, but I don't do videos. I'll get off my tail and re-hate read ACOTAR+ to pull all the quotes for it.
I listened to the first book and thought it was fine. I had issues with the writing, but it a nice listen. I liked Tamlin, too. Like he was just a basic beauty and the beast love interest. Just fine. I would give it a 5 out of 10. Apart from good, it wasn’t bad. Aaannnd then I started book two and was throw off the whole series. Tamlin was done dirty and I think it’s bull crap. These types of videos tell me I didn’t miss anything 😂😂😂😂
Same I enjoyed the first one as a fun piece of escapism but the second one pissed me off. I did read the Nesta book and that was kinda fun tbh
Somebody please pour a shot of whiskey in my pumpkin spice latte if I have to remember this book exists.
Also, just finishing this video now after a long day. I have to say: I love trash, I love hate reading, I love complaining about bad books. Something has to be genuinely awful for me to think it wasn't worth the time. The novella and Nesta's book are NOT worth it. They're just. Exhausting. It's not even funny how bad it gets. Please, spare yourselves.
That said, I ironically but immensely enjoyed the first Crescent City book. It's so campy that it kind of leans into SJM's ridiculous writing style, and I devoured it like it was the latest shitty Netflix reality show. The second book is terrible but in a fun to hate way? Idk, it's taking me a month to read so maybe it's not even that fun. I'm not sure why I continue to buddy read these books. Anyway. The CC books are WAY too long and probably not worth it, but hey, people love SJM roast content, and I'd love to see y'all cover it. At the end of the day, we are spiteful gremlins and SJM books are our midnight snacks.
you three could not have posted this at a better time. i finished the second book and absolutely hated it, but unfortunately maas has this way of hooking me back in again and again to see those tiny slivers of better books that are always peeking through whenever she decides to do something interesting for once. i was seriously debating whether or not i wanted to read this one because i KNEW i wasn’t going to like it, but i was intrigued to see feyre back in the spring court and was (delusional) hoping feyre and tamlin could have some interesting interactions; i was also hoping to see something interesting happen with nesta and elaine. THANKFULLY i watched this video instead and have been thoroughly convinced there is nothing for me in the third book or the rest of the series, thank GOD i can be free and don’t have to read any more of the nonsense. you guys saved me like 30 hours of an audiobook and an overall bad time 🙏
I don’t like Riceman nor his elitist cult so this was definitely a good video for me. I was rooting for Tamlin but then ACOMAF happened and then this book. This kind of just proves to me that Miss Janet doesn’t know how to write romance or falling out of love considering she uses the bonded mates trope on every main couple instead of allowing them to develop (they usually just have lots of sexy time) and for the exes she ruins them into oblivion just to pair the FMC with another version of the ex except his bad actions are hidden underneath his “good actions”, ultimate male beauty feminist icon power, and massive fairy peen.
Please do allll of them. It’s actually really educational to hear your opinions. I find the book series fun and campy in the way that I find twilight an engaging film- is it actually good… no… but is it fun… yes! But it’s so so educational to hear how it could be better and WHY it’s bad. I love it! Keep ‘em coming. 😊
I agree with your comment. This series got me back into reading, so it does have a special spot, but I agree it could have used some editing like they mentioned.
@@Sportsgirl128 oh totally! I sometimes wonder if the pressure from publishers to get out as many books as you can… as fast as you can… leads to just poor work. I feel like Maas has so much more potential. I’ve read ToG and ACOTAR and there’s some moments where she’s strong and then idk what happens but it suddenly just kinda breaks apart. She had potential if she just slowed down and if it was edited more rigorously.
JUSTICE FOR TAMLIN
✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼
You mentioned how infuriating it was that Feyre used and betrayed so many people along the way. I was thinking it would have been interesting if Valeris’s people were all icily pragmatic after being hidden and at war for so long, especially in a way that jarred Feyre’s human sensibilities. Her increasing indifference towards hurting others could then have served as a measuring stick as she began to slide away from being human towards being fae.
Anyway, it’s just another way Maas is a hack.
Oooooh if you dislike the "Power Couple" ™ (Feyre and Rhysand) in this book, you're gonna hate them in Nesta's book LOL 1:48:54 NEVERMIND YOU ALREADY KNOW
(also yes thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy and author's hand in every character)!
1:23:08 Katie appearing for half a second and saying "WHO" has me laughing so hard
Oh my god. Wait till you guys read Silver Flames 😂 She really gave up on that one!
Aww just to the end of the video where you said you weren’t reading more 😢 i really wanted you to rip apart whatever the hell SJM tried to do in ACOSF.
The novela is so much less length wise yet soooo much worse. Can't wait for you to read it
I'm not going to lie, I enjoyed the novella more than the two books before. I was reading the series mainly out of sheer spite, at this point, to find out what sh*tty thing a member of the main cast would do next and how the narrative would attempt to justify it this time around... and good grief, they're just awful people in this. They lack perspective and self-awareness to the point where it's actually hilarious. The whole thing reminds me of a bad Christmas!AUfanfic. I spent my reading time trying to refrain my need to grab a friend and point out in disbelief and tell them 'are you seeing that sh*t?' (there was no one around at the time) and generally having a lot of fun -which might also have been because ACOWAR was painful- Dunno what this says about my taste, you're objectively right - but I found it kind of refreshing in its terribleness. It seems like it abandoned all pretense, y'know?
@@Maradrafts idk I guess what made me mad was a) how Tamlin was handled yet again , b) the communal art thing and c)Nesta being a completely different person.
@@yiannis5972 *Spoilers below the cut, if any of y'all care about a Court of Frost and Starlight.*
Absolutely valid of you!! I found all three of those things so hilariously bad that my brain dripped from my ears, did a backflip and left the room, so all my standards vanished and it wound up being more entertaining than irritating to me, but I fully understand how you'd be mad. Especially SJM dedicating some of her book space to extra-dunk on Tamlin -Stop! Stop! He's already dead!- And the art thing. Man, the art thing. People in the streets are trying to get back on their feet from a literal war, and there are so many things that could benefit from a fraction of Rhys's literal bathtubs of money and valuable gift jewelry, but no, we gotta hear Saint Feyre warble about her good deeds and see her overcome her very specific art trauma. It was on such another level of wish fulfilment and skewed priorities, both in-story and in terms of narrative choices, that I had no other choice but to laugh. It's in that sense than it was more enjoyable than ACOWAR, which tried to have stakes but mostly failed.
At 1:23:06 , Maria's orange cat begins making biscuits on the bed :) You're welcome
Also, Katie's wild "WHO?" took me out lmfao
These books are so long too that I felt like I had Stockholm syndrome, and when it was done, I started to get feeling in my brain again. Also, I've never really liked Feyre's personality through each book.
Never have I ever felt so vindicated! You guys so eloquently expressed what I’ve been internally screaming for years 😂👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
Honestly, never read these books, but I've been following them on booktube for years and actually Tarquin has also been my underappreciated favorite, I would read a good Tarquin-centered book/fic without a doubt
Yesss the Maasening is back!!! Been waiting for this!!
Feyres dad is one of the worst characters ever written anywhere. 4.46 on goodreads is insane
I have a personal theory that ACOTAR has flaws in its worldbuilding & falls short because she was writing this series at the same time as writing the last few books in throne of glass. And I personally think she put all her creative juices & planing in throne of glass. It’s superior. You see the bread crumbs she has left since the very beginning. The FMC isn’t perfect but she has a more believable character arc. There’s still times where her characters or certain details are frustrating but its far less than in her other series
why is it every time someone says "high Fae" I think if "hyphae" (fungus filament things underground)
One thing I never see anyone talking about is Mor’s gift being Truth????? What does that mean????? Am I just dumb and missing something? Does it ever explain??? What does she do with it??????
Omg her gift is truth!!!! *Mor taking more than 500 years to turn Azriel down because she can't bear to tell him shes just not into him*
@@llindberg194 that point is explicitly pointed out by Mor in the book but we don’t get anything else! What does the gift of truth meeeaaaannnn 😂😂😂
@@emmawasson9958 We just have to accept that we'll never know 🤣👻
@@llindberg194also with that, Azriel just must be the absolute worst spy if he never puts together she went to the gay bar all the time or could not interrupt just the fact she does not want you. I just can't with both of their characters.
Katiiieee! Guyyysss!!! I read until the same point as Katie, so omg I’m shocked! And f what she did to Tamlin… awesome video, you three are really fun to watch 🙏💙
Not to be insensitive because I know this was a hard time for y’all (especially Katie) but… Silver Flames next? LOL
Guilty admission: I have to roll my shoulders and boogie to the opening and closing music. It looks like a parent trying to hang with the kids at a birthday party in August 1968.
Yay! I love to hate Twilight and now the Acotar series. Thank you for the ammunition!
YES the best antidote to a day of uni lmao i have been waiting for yall to tear this book apart
Honestly I needed this. I have a raging headache due to my laptop being a whole bitch. So thank you for your impeccable timing.
I found your channel just yesterday, binged all you had on acotar and was sesrching for this video, and was sad knowing I had to wait for it. But now, here it is, two more hours of pure enjoyment!
I'm so glad you guys liked Lucien because he was my favorite when I listened to Cari Can Read explain the plot LMAO (Maybe because he's also her favorite who knows)
All Maria's cats have to do is be in the same frame as her and I get distracted by how cute they are.
Hey guys can you make more videos where you show examples of good and bad prose? Or just reading a particular book line by line and discussing why the prose is good/bad?
They do this on their Patreon for the parasocial darlings tier 🙂 It's great!
They do, but it's a Patrion exclusive
It would be an honor to have my book roasted on here someday. Maybe it would be the book to finally inspire the ruggedly handsome one to stop reading altogether! 😅
1:13:59 "Kim, theres people that are dying"
What’s really gross about Rhysand not telling Feyre about the danger of her pregnancy is this is a form of reproductive abuse. Because he’s withholding Ferye’s ability to make a fully informed decision with her own body.
So sorry my delightfully handsome hosts, I'm enjoying the suffering this book inflicted on you. It tastes like vindication. There are so many people in the world I can't be friends with because they think these books are good. Like no sweetie, no. Why would you do this to me? Think of MY EMOTIONS before you go and say things like that.
@Will, I lost count of the times I laughed out loud during this. Great episode, I love this podcast.
Katie reacting to the book's climax is iconicly hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
oh no please roast silver flames. it's just the worst
OMG, Maria's face on the thumbnail XD
She looks like she sucked on a lemon. 😂
On the subject of lingerie (something I never thought I'd say), at what point in a story does suspension of disbelief break in regarding to language? In a world where sexy underwear exists but France doesn't, is it easier to worldbuild fictional France or come up with a new word? If I was to be pedantic, would a character using the word "naive" also imply the existence of France, as well as Latin? Does "pragmatic" imply Greece? Oh no, do they have coffee or tea?
I have a book suggestion; The Jasmine Throne by Tasha Suri. It is a feminist book, but not the "in your face/hold you hostage" way. It more one where women put in all the work and men just get in their way. I'd love to hear your thoughts because I want to like it, it should be interesting, but I'm neither crying, laughing or afraid...
I second this! Such a good book
7 minutes in and already a GoT reference. and tomorrow is Octoberfest. RIP my Liver
I'm saying it now, this is what happens when you play with fae characters and try to write them as anything BUT WHAT THEY ARE. The fae aren't wholesome, hot or on your side. They're on their own side. A lot of the myths with them - as a Scot - is stealing brides, children, cursing people, getting insulted and ruining/torturing people, not caring that their pranks are hurtful ext. There's a legit type of fae who's WHOLE thing is seducing humans and if the human rejects them then they're cursed to have the worst luck/everything goes wrong in their life to the point they're destitute. But she didn't actually care what the fae were, just that she could make them beautiful and have wings. She could have leaned into these themes, instead she churned out romanisation and fetishism, and the same main character in all of her books.
Give your fae characters their fangs and claws back but don't write it off as them being wrong or right to suit your moral compass. The fae aren't human. They WILL abuse and not see it as abuse, they will be horrible and do horrible things or good things because it suits them in the moment. But to them, especially and Unseelie, it's the strongest survives. The issue with Maas is she isn't writing them like they're real fae so none of that justification can even apply. She isn't expanding on that at all. She villainizes Tamlin yet excuses Rhysand like he's not the exact same, and expects people to love Rhysand and Feyre when there is no difference between any of them.
Writing the fae with human morals is absolutely stupid.
Will brought out the screaming pillow for this one.
I’m glad there’s another Tarquin fan out there. He was really the most decent, fairly selfless, genuinely good character in the entire series and he gets absolutely screwed over by the “good guys” with no repercussions whatsoever. I detest Feyre, Rhysand, and the winged idiots. I sometimes marvel over how I went from fan of this series to a hater with a grudge.
Please, please, please roast the Christmas special novella.
You're telling me she twilight's the pregnancy? Only thing missing is someone bonding with the baby before it's born
It is actually worse than twilight. In twilight at least Edward was fully ready to yeet the fetus to save Bella's life. While Rhysand hides the fact that her life is in danger from Feyre and physically isolates her from all her family and friends to make sure nothing disrupts her pregnancy.
Isn't Azriel still un-mated? 👀
Has anyone told them that Rhysand and Feyre are now so co-dependent on each other that they made a bargain where if one of them dies then the other will as well. Just to add another what the fuck level to this heteronormative soulmate bullshit 🤬
Uh okay I haven't read these books so like ... don't they have a child together?!! If they made this pact pre-child, then please tell me they have another conversation later voiding it ... and if they made the pact post-child ... ?!??!?!??!?!!!@?@?!!!!!!!?!?!?!@?!?!? o_O
@@NaritaZaraki that would imply them being characters rather than just wish fulfillment.
As far as I know, they don't even have a conversation about Rhysand violating Feyre's trust when she finds out she could die in childbirth, so of course they don't revoke the bargain (also the phrase 'Feyre's baby rich scent' is used Nesta's book too 🤢)
@@raychelreed5565 Oh nonononono 🤮🤮🤮
I read these books when I was a teenager and this book is the only one that I do not recollect anything from.
And honestly I'm not mad about that
I had such a fun time watching Katie lose her freaking mind over the ending of this story.
I am binging this channel so hard. You guys are hilarious and insightful. Such a treat
This is one series I've watched a lot of reviews on, but I haven't read a single book by Maas 😂 I'll probably end up reading it at some point just for the entertainment value because watching Katie be so outraged with Maas was something else. Usually, it's Will who is the most vocal and Maria sometimes gets annoyed by books, but Katie is mostly laid back and forgiving, so my only conclusion is that this is unforgivably bad.
I desperately need you all to cover the Nesta book
from book 1 Lucien is goodest boi, and Feyre is just a jerk
I read an article of fans begging for these books to be made into a TV series like Shadow and Bone was....
PLEASE GOD NOOOOOO!
Honestly, as bad as the Acotar series is, it would probably work better in a visual medium instead of a novel.
At least it would get rid of the repetitive prose.
True, but I don't know if I could handle the "sass" coming out of real people's mouths.😂🤣
It's in production for Hulu. The Outlander showrunner is attached to it.
Thank God I don't have Hulu then 🤣
I’m never getting Hulu then
Customary twerk for the algorithm gods.
Is Katie going to be okay after hearing the end of this book?
Can confirm she is surviving. Recovery has been difficult but she is pulling through. - Maria
15:00 what you're referring to is the trope of Protagonist-Centered Morality and it's VERY common in these wish fulfillment fantasies. Twilight had the same problem.
The author has such authorial favoritism that they show their hand by forcing the narrative to hail their protagonist as the paragon of morality (despite their actions proving anything but that) and shielding them from little to no consequences. Meanwhile other characters who do the same thing (like Tamlin) are disproportionately punished and villainzed just so the protagonist can look better in comparison. Blatant double standards.
Oww marias support gremlins are wholesome.
You guys gave me the literary equivalent of vaccination against this series! Thank you for putting yourselves on the line for our benefit!
I feel so vindicated. I really dialiked so many choices in this book. There is so much and yet nothing all at once.
I needed this so bad 😂😭
So much wasted potential with ACOWAR lol
I only read the first two--and I knew Lucien was the best character. Was he ever utilized? NOOOpeeeee
1:54:05 Katie "I don't fucking give a shit!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Honestly i enjoyed these books like one enjoys really bad soap operas. I made the mistake to listen to booktok and bought the entire series thinking it couldnt be that bad if it has so many good reviews. I will never trust booktok ever again. My trust issues have doubled because of this. Maybe i also enjoyed the series because i already wasted money on them and ...might as well. I thought the entire war sequence was anticlimactic, the way it was written made me feel like all of that happened in 30 minutes. 0 plot twists, 0 stakes, 0 good smut, 0 action and too many dumb plot devices. Wait, why did i enjoy this again?
Are there any books that feel similar to LOTR with a heavier sprinkle of romance? is there no decent in between?
I really like the Tairen Soul series by C.L. Wilson. Maybe that's worth a look. 😊👋
There's five books in all.
WTF with the Weaver's and Bone Carver's endings? They were characters with potential. Ruined.
Yupp. They were like the only redeeming parts of the book. Completely ruined
Oh my god yes, I was so freaking enraged at how these supposed ancient eldritch creatures went down like absolute punks.
@@flowerpixelI basically hated the second book without them. The Bone Carver is especially was fun. Maria is so right that she actually does write good creepy fae, but they are wasted on this trash story.
I haven’t finished reading this one yet, but I must say that I love y’all’s videos even when you trash on books I like. I like Savior’s Champion, Malice, and Forest of a Thousand Lanterns. And those are some of my favorites of your videos. I don’t think it’s fair to think that those of us who like books can’t enjoy your takes on them if they don’t align with ours. (Not to say there aren’t people who go too far in what they like and bring hate to people who disagree.) Y’all’s videos are the absolute best regardless!
can u guys read six of crows??? It’s so good
1:36:29 Frodo'ian slip much!! 😂 Loved this video.