P8C - H&K P8C C for Combat. German Military Special Forces (KSK) Version without a safety. Decocking lever only. P9M - Glock 17 Gen.3 M for maritim(maritime) Special Version for maritime forces. In use by GSG9 P9A1 - Glock 17 Gen.4 maritime version. In use by German Special Forces KSM(Kampfschwimmer). P9S - H&K P9S GSG9,Bundesgrenzschutz(West German Border Patrol),Saarland State police P11 - H&K P11 Underwater pistol P11 - H&K HK4 German Customs and other police units P2000 - H&K P2000 Police P30 - H&K P30 German Military Special Forces(KSK), Feldjäger(Military Police), Zoll(German customs), Bundespolizei (Federal government police), Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Police Office) SFP9 - H&K VP9/SFP9 GSG9, Police P99 - Walther P99 Police P229 - Sig P229 (Bundeskriminalamt Federal Criminal Police Office) Glock 46 - Glock 46 Police Sachsen-Anhalt
nope. the P1 is different from the P38 since it got an aluminum frame, instead of the steel frame. and there's only P9M that is a modified Glock 17, the P9 with "M" would be the H&K P9. P9 and P9M were used by the GSG.
My favourite pistol. Glocks are great, 1911s are sweet, M&Ps are decent, Walthers are fun. The USP just FEELS perfect to me. All the controls are big and smooth and located just right where they should be. It feels great in the hand. Points well.
When we carry the gun loaded. We don’t use the safety. It’s called “schnelle Feuerbereitschaft”. So the holstered loaded gun is on F with the hammer up. Still the gun has the second safety in the slight when it drops or such things.
I absolutely love the USP and just HK's handgun designs in general.Not too fancy, clean-looking, reliable and effective.The Mk23, despite the size, is crazy effective, it withstood probably the harshest pistol trials ever, it has very good parts, a cool supressor and LAM, 12 rounds .45 ACP. HK is really good with rifles, SMGs and pistols.
The e in German is not silent, you pronounce Pistole like you did but with a “e” like in “everywhere”. It’s the same with Porsche, most of you pronounce it like Porsch.
@@pteppig That's because nobody wants to risk damage their Porsche in some freak accident on the road, but a porch? You can just go to a lumber yards, and get the materials to fix it yourself lol
@@xcalibertrekker6693 Did you hurt your butt by sitting on your Glock? It's not my fault though... Seriously, you can feel the difference, it just does. Didn't say the Glock is bad or anything. They're both very good.
Browning has his name somewhere in every gun. In every gun there is an element of him. All hail our Lord and Saviour Browning and his prophet Gun Jesus
kev french QUIET HEATHEN (its a joke I’m aware that browning hasn’t touched everything although if they use double stack magazines then in theory you could credit Browning with that)
@@LoverBoy-ks9qh Not really, there are double stacked pistol magazines before that. One that comes to mind is the experimental Nambu that was featured on this Channel, produced in 1920 iirc.
Exgrmbl I looked it up and a man called Dieudonné Saive is credited by some for the first double stack however he worked with Browning as well to create the Browning HiPower which maybe means that Browning also had some input?
Wow that really is a brand new example you have there. The proof marks are from the Ulm proof house, which is really close to me. :-) Thanks for the video! A side note on the duplicate markings: IIRC the CIP (the international proofing commission) requires proof marks on all "significant parts" of a firearm, significant parts being defined as those which, when destroyed, render the firearm completely non-functional. Edit: of course Ian's P1 is French, how could it not be French? :D
@@quentintin1 me neither, when the gun came on camera I just thought "something looks weird...wait, what are those markings?" and paused to have a look.
Its also a Manurhin pistol as well which makes some of the best revolvers ever made as well which that's going to piss off some people (I'm going with the expertise of LifeSizePotato on it).
@@quentintin1 AFAIK after the WWII Germany was barred from manufacture of small arms (or at least it was heavily restricted) for some time. That meant that companies like Walther could not make any new guns. But they still owned the rights to the designs, so they licensed them to other companies abroad in order to stay afloat. Apparently Walther made some deals with Manurhin, who produced quite a lot of PPs/PPKs (including .22 versions) and P1s as well.
German law (Gesetz über die Kontrolle von Kriegswaffen) limits and forbids the sale of weapons of war into conflict areas and countries with human rights violations. Mexico is regarded as such a country and since the USA shares a border and has a free trade agreement with mexico, the export of purely military versions of H&K guns to the USA is strictly limited. This may be the reason why the H&K P8 was imported to the USA by a third party importer. Heckler & Koch is actually now beeing investigated because the US Division of H&K helped with illegal gun trafficking into Mexico.
superhavi HK didn't do it President obama and the ATF did. It was called operation fast and furious. In order to track down cartel leaders they purposely let firearms cross into Mexico. The operation failed miserably and become wide known after an agent was killed with one of the firearms allowed to cross. Maybe an HK authorized dealer got in the mix BUT HK didn't sell with the intent on Mexico getting possession
Does anyone happen to know if the FN PDW prototypes (or at least designs leading to the p90) still exist? Ian really should do a video on them really interesting stuff certainly forgotten weapons.
Little addition to this issue with the „reverse“ safety lever: our (German) manual of arms does not allow you to carry your weapon cocked. Instead you allways carry it loaded, decocked and on „F“. After firing and conducting a magazine change you decock the weapon before holstering it again
@@dexm2010 our explanation was that if needed in a heated situation, simply drawing and squeezing in double action would be faster and more intuitive. We were taught the "Kontaktstellung" , which is a position where you already aim with the pistol about 5 m in front of you to the ground, that signalizes you're pretty much about to use lethal force and squeeze the trigger already one third to half. So pulling up an inch and then squeezing the rest of the force would be quicker than switching the safety lever in case you'd have to use the pistol. Also they explained the force you'd need to exert on the trigger (around 5kg) was enough of a safety to carry it in F position.
I really liked my P8 in the german army for 4 years... Good reliable pistol, never had any problems with her to hit my targets, no jamming or other problems.
03:47 Should you be interested in such minutiae, Ian: the "e" in "Pistole" is not silent in German. The "le" sounds kinda like the french word "le" as in "le tour de france" or whatever example suits you. Or say it in three words: *piss* *to* *le* That also works...
Can you please somehow find an Artic Warfare sniper rifle to review? I've always been interested in those firearms. Great videos recently by the way, Gun Jesus.
Well, they're not stamping everything "excessively" in the sense that they're stamping it more than they need to. Legally, they are required to have markings on all "significant parts", i.e. all parts that render the gun completely non-functional as a firearm if destroyed.
@@edwardteach3000 Well no, "non-functional as a firearm" not meaning that it doesn't function as intended, but literally that if these parts are destroyed, it can no longer be considered a firearm. Mostly that means pressure bearing components. At least that's my understanding of the current situation, gun laws are once again being changed though...
Likewise, I understand the physical difference but not the pros and cons of each. I may have been taught to shoot when I was knee high to a grasshopper but the opportunities for ownership and use are somewhat limited in my country (UK) so service rifles and shotguns are about it. Plus no armourer was going to let the grubby fingered sprogs pull apart HIS weapons to see how they worked. Something I thought a touch unfair until I too was responsible for equipment used by others and the thought of two 15 year olds even touching one of my servers fills me with dread. I can now imagine how the same thing felt for a certain RAF Regiment armourer turning around and seeing a pair of cadets finish field stripping the GPMG on display!
Polyaganal rifling reduces bore friction considerably more than traditional rifling so u can use hotter ammo it tends to handle p plus ammo better but it can be ammo fussy also it really has less fouling tha traditional rifling as the bore dosent cut into the round say every hundred rpunds itl need a clean but thats only from powder fouling
@@Taistelukalkkuna Absolutely and it´s also realy nice to handle with gloves or cold hands. In terms of reliability the P8 runs a like Olympic athlete. Can´t remeber a single issue in the last 6000-7000 rounds.
Makes good sense to do it that way. The heavy double action trigger pull is the best safety mechanism out there to avoid negligent/accidental discharges (after your own common sense, of course). I own two H&K USP pistols, one full size and chambered for .45 ACP and a USP Compact chambered in .40 S&W (with an additional barrel chambered for .357 SIG). I always carry them with a full magazine inserted, a round chambered, the weapon decocked and the safety off. No way that gun is going off unless I consciously pull that trigger with the equivalent of 51 N/11 lbs.
Would love to see a full video on the USP series, going into the similarities and differences with the MK23 SOCOM and talking about the rifling pros/cons...
I really dig the lever/paddle style magazine release you see on some of the HKs and Walthers. Seems like the easiest and most versatile of all the releases I've come across. This one could be made a little bigger maybe.
Trust me when I say this; you don't want it any bigger. It's quite comfortable to use still and would otherwise risk accidentally releasing the magazine.
I might prefer a good heel release to some of ones that place the button in the middle of the grip. That can be at least partially covered if you're right handed, and completely if you're a leftie. And I woud prefer any type to anything that doesn't have removable magazine.
The first pistol I ever actually bought for myself was a USP 9. Great gun. Never malfunctioned once despite being abused often. Ate every ammo I ever forced through it. I sold it to my brother- in- law who shot it often and never cleaned, nor lubed it. Decades later, the frame rails are ground into slivers and rifling is all but gone, still shoots like a brand new gun. That's why an HK will always be worth the price.
Love the USP. Wish they would have refreshed it a bit over the years. I'm sure the pistols HK currently offers are great, but they don't do it for me like the USP.
Would really like to see a detailed video explaining how the 40 s&w is higher pressure than 9mm. The reason I ask is because all of the reloading manuals, Wikipedia, Sammi, and manufacturers specifications list them being identical. I understand that 40 typically has a heavier bullet which translates into more recoil which in turn could cause more ware to the frame rails and slide...
I would love to see a pros-and-cons video on polygonal versus traditional rifling in a barrel your videos are always excellent and super informative and always engaging thank you!
I just picked up a 9mm and i notice a blow back of rounds when using a 115 grain or lower. Other than that a great gun. I think the sig .226 was the best pistols. Uppere and lower full metal
The Bundeswehr carries the P8 with safety on F. So you are able to directly shot by drawing the gun. So it is not necessary to change the position of Fire and Safety
Plus at least when this was adopted originally: Bundeswehr was a conscript military. Which makes a massive training issue, at which point "which way the safety turns" is actually a real legitimate concern. The people aren't in constant active duty to be just given and trained to new equipment immediately. It doesn't make jack jump difference, if the other way is tacti speedier. The military has hundreds of thousands of people in reserve, who trained the other way. If mobilization happens, they don't have time to go "Oh hi, your new pistol has the safety other way round". Soooo it is a really good reason to have the safety work the same way, to have a gun that has same operating processes. The shape and exterior might change, but if the check list and movements are same, you are good to go. Change to completely different operating principles and that means lots of rehearsal training about the new system. Plus people who get confused between new and old gear. Because Conscript militaries newer throw stuff away. Even if there was new shiny P8, the P1s would still be in stockpile and prop up now and then.
that is entirelly incorrect. bundeswher soldiers (usually ones on guard duty since the P8 is rarely used for anything else) carry it with the hammer down, the safety on and no round in the chamber, unless they have been specifically ordered to carry "ready to fire" which means round chambered, hammer cocked and the safety is still on in that configuration. the only gun that the bundeswher uses that is ever carried without the safety on is the MG-3, which is because the MG-3 firess from an open bolt and since the gun is carried with the bolt closed, it can never fire from that position anyways. (you also can not engage the safety with the bolt closed)
+pizzawerfer1604 They have started doing that since about 2010, before that the safety lever was used as intended (i.e. pull out the gun and put the safety to F). Schnelle Feuerbereitschaft (or Patrouillenstellung as it was called at first) was only introduced with the nSAK, which is still relatively new, compared to the overall service life of the P8.
I carried the very similar, if ever so slightly larger USP .45 (.45 acp) as a duty weapon in my old police department for a few years. I was a detective corporal at the time and even used one of the first commercial Kydex holsters for it. I went through FBI Basic SWAT training with it and it is an amazing pistol. I had just worn out a SIG P220 (in fairness, I bought the SIG used and shot it A LOT) when a gun dealer friend had me try out the USP. It was a personal weapon of his. In shooting from 5 yards to 25+ yards my group (using American Eagle ball ammo) never got larger than two and a half inches (one ragged hole, and a much smaller hold from 50' and in). Perfect salesman that he is, he told me, "Just keep it for a while and let me know if you want to buy it. We'll work out a deal." Yeah ... it's been mine ever since. ;) I carried it until I thought I'd broken the firing pin. Lacking gunsmith funds (ah, the delightful low wages of career LEOs) I opted for a vintage Remington-Rand 1911 A1. Thereafter the department purchased SIG P226 and P229 pistols in .40 S&W and we were made to carry only what was issued. Since then I fixed the USP (firing pin wasn't broken just gummed up ... FWIW, _I_ kept the weapon otherwise clean, just never checked that firing pin channel and removing said firing pin takes certain tools and skills most local 'smiths did not possess). I carried it off-duty some and to this day carry it sometimes, especially in cooler months when I can have a large shirt or jacket on. It never really fit my hand perfectly (HUGE) grip but nevertheless shot quite well. The 9mm and .40 versions are slightly smaller and fit me much better. But even that huge .45acp version is unbelievably easy to carry all day. Heh, once when off-duty, five thugs came running at me (I'd interrupted them curb-stomping another fellow, inconsiderate cuss that I am). Suddenly seeing that huge pistol come out and looking down that huge bore all five of them stopped in their tracks, dove into their car and took off for parts unknown. I counted that as a save. ;)
I find that tale highly unlikely from your writing alone. Writing reports is half the job, you would not get anywhere near those postings. But I'm sure you've read a few detective novels.
It's german doctrine to have the safety 'backwards'. They've pretty much always had the safe position down and the fire position up, it's just the way they've always done it. At least since the Luger. The safe up positioning is kind of an american thing since the 1911's safety lever works that way.
@@AngeredKabar I also like pushing down to disengage the safety more but that might be due to being way more familiar and trained with the G36, if I had the option I would much rather have S - F - then decock with the G36's lever as opposed to the F - S - decock we have. Maybe it's just me not being a huge fan of pistols. It's a fine firearm - from what I can tell anyways -, so I don't hold it as a huge drawback, more like a preference thing.
@@FrontlinerCdV I'd put the decock above the current top spot if possible, seems like it'd be a bit inconvenient to get overzealous with de-safing and drop the hammer by mistake.
@@AngeredKabar What really gets me is the euro mag release vs US. I like the euro ones alot better, just seems more natural to me, you basically automatically retain the mag
ToastyMozart it takes a significant amount of pressure to use the decock feature, it’s definitely a deliberate movement. I worried about that until I got my hands on mine and realized the chances were slim to none. ✌️
The request was for a manual safety where the lever automatically returned to the ‚Safe‘ position after decocking. The easiest way was to turn around the ‚Safe‘ and ‚Fire‘ positions on the decocking lever to fulfill that request. The pistol is carried in the so-called "schnelle Feuerbereitschaft" (quick fire readiness) uncocked and unlocked (lever on F).
whatching this made me start thinking, my usp compact 45 been either on my hip or within reach for nearly 30 years . never feel safer , what a great weapon, super reliable. I have always joked that you could probabaly put the wrong ammo in and it would work.
I was wondering if that cracking would be caused by the fired round having a similar rearward impulse as the 40 s&w in a smaller area. I would imagine the 40 would spread that over a wider area. Also, I think the polygonal vs cut rifling would be an interesting topic for you and Karl to dig into on Inrange. Great video as usual.
The HK USP 45 is a product improved 1911. The improvements are: Polymer frame, magazine capacity, magazine release, and recoil dampening. I will always love my 1911s and I will always love my USP 45s.
I love your channel man, its great for me to see my old service weapons one more time as well as seeing them pulled apart and analysed compared to other systems out there. Believe it or not, after 20 years one kinda forgets how to disassemble them xD
The Bundeswehr doesn't issue LLMs (Laser-/Lichtmodul, LAM). Technically, they bought a couple thousands of them, but they were never issued to soldiers. Probably rotting in some storage unit somewhere, although a few of them might have ended up with the KSK.
@@tillmannfischer Bundeswehr use LLM01 for rifle and LLM-pi to pistols, and they are issued to soldiers, more for "elite" units like EGB Fallschimjager and units in deployment
Actually, .40SW and 9x19 has identical maximum allowed pressure 35 000 psi (by SAAMI standards). 40SW has greater momentum and energy and that is why it is harder on the guns. But cool video anyway.
Is there any reason for such a hot load of German Army / NATO 9x19mm ammunition other than having to be able to reliable function with submachineguns as well? For the German Army that would have been in the 90s - and often still is - the MP2A1, an Uzi variant. That at least was the reason I was told at Infantry school as to why the German military uses such a hot load. As always a very well presented and made video Ian!
@@comsubpac I think logistics is just about the most important thing in any military, so I'd be happy to believe that the more interchangeable parts you have, the better. Wasn't that the whole point of the NATO rounds anyway, so that you could interchange ammunition with allies in a pinch as well, even if you used different guns.
@@comsubpac I'm with you there. Although I'm not sure if every unit is already re-equipped. Infantry school surely still has tons of Uzis for training - if only because German Army never bought blanks and adapters for the MP7. Or have they by now?
@@comsubpac True true. It just totally escapes me why they seem to not introduce Blank firing adaptors and blanks for most of the "new" weapons. I'm not even sure if I've seen one with the MG5 but all that is another topic. Thanks for your answers and opinion.
In theory at least. Literally every single official Manual for Bundeswehr weapons explicitly forbids firing anything but the few approved German munition types.
I own a HK USP .45 compact, single and double action with a decocker. Bought it new 13 years ago and it is the one gun I won't sell. When I was stationed in Alaska where it is cooler and I wore bulkier clothing, I carried it all the time. I carry it on fire with the hammer dropped in double action. Never had a single malfunction with it regardless of what kind of ammo I've fed it. Also very accurate, especially for a "combat" handgun. It's got it's disadvantages, but for me the pros outweigh the cons.
This was actually really interesting because I just got a nice airsoft USP and getting to inspect it along with Ian inspecting the P8 was really quite fun. My reason for airsoft because I like guns but don't want to deal with actually owning real ones, as well as price. Good golly I don't have enough extra money to be buying real guns and ammo.
Back in service in the early 90's i was told by my instructor that my P38 was deadliest when being thrown at the enemies face as soon as he came as close as 20m...The P8 was quite an improvement
Was a common BW joke when I served in the BW in last stages of the cold war (87/88),later as a reservist I had the opportunity to practise with the P8. In my humble opinion the P8 fits much better in a conscript-army, because you get proper results with much less training/drill than with a P1/P38.
Interesting, I cannot reach real firearms in my region. Fun fact: air soft company copy exactly the same slide structure, thats why toys keep cracking at the “reinforced” part in p8a1. Now i know why!
HK USP is the second handgun I ever bought( First brand new firearm I've ever purchased too) Everyone that shoots it , even if they hate it's look always compliments how smooth it shoots , especially with higher pressure rounds.
Similar aproach had the Steyr M9 in designing the gun for the 40s&w and then chamber it to 9mm. By the way thats a gun that in its first generation was quite interesting to look and compare with other black guns . The backwards safety action is quite a tradition in german military handguns since the P08.
My former service pistol. Good gun. No expert though. Don´t say there aren´t better ones, but this one does the job. 07:29 Never had an issue with the fire position being up. Never heard anybody else complain about it either. The distance your thumb has to move to set it to fire is so minimal that i can in all honesty not see any relevant delay there. Then again i exclusively trained with that pistol so i never had to switch from a different setup. I think that this might be an issue exclusive to competition shooters where milliseconds count, maybe. Not the military.
@ martialme84 This is obviously an old comment by now, but I think it would really only matter if someone wanted to carry the gun cocked and locked (that is, hammer cocked, safety on) because that might be noticeably more clumsy to push the lever up off safe as opposed to down to fire the weapon. From what I am reading in the comments, it sounds like German soldiers are not allowed to carry the weapon cocked with the safety on anyway, so I suppose it really doesn't matter. Also I don't know about Europe, but in USA some competitions won't let you carry a gun of this type with the hammer cocked and on safe either, even though the design of the weapon allows for it, technically.
yea it says a lot about a guns quality when the shooting test you take with it deems you completely missing one out of four shots and just barely getting the other three on target, acceptable.
Thank you Ian, finally I know why i never was able to hit a target consistently and why the gun never felt user friendly. As you said the Bundeswehr seems to use "very hot 9mm ammo", well, gfys Bundeswehr, I never felt comfortable shooting nor did it enhance my impression that pistol. I served 15 years as an Officer and the pistols always felt "too hot" now that you mention it.
from what a bunch of people are saying, the Bundeswehr likes using stupidly hot loads of 9mm. in the US and most other countries, there are 3 designations for pressure for 9mm, standard, +P, and +P+. +P+ is considered anything over the standardized +P pressure threshold. the standard loading for the Bundeswehr is equivalent to our +P+ here in the US. Also, I hear the German government requested that the double action trigger pull be stupidly heavy, to keep the grunts from accidentally shooting themselves... That would explain why you likely had problems with follow up shots, also explains the short service life with cracked slides and other problems... also, its never fun to shoot extremely overpressured cartridges.
@@Elc22 the thing here in the german army is the trigger pull on the unchoked hammer is for a special way to carry the P8. basicly we walk around with then not on safe, always on the fire positon. We use the switch to bring the hammer forward without firing and then carry it with the hammer forward and on fire. Called "Schnelle Feuerbereitschaft" Quick Fire Readyness.
For me the pistol was a bit to clunky the grip to unergonomical and the mag release was to much of a fiddle. As a left hand user it wasn't great either. Still hit every target for gold.
You missed to mention one essential fact about the P8. The double-action trigger is absolutely atrocious. Since the Military was too scared of recruits accidentally Shooting themselves, they requested the DA Trigger to be set to something like 55N. Since HK wanted to guarantee this troughout the Service life of the pistol, they cranked it up to about 57N, taking into account the wear on the spring. Once the hammer is cocked, gun runs nice enough, but boy oh boy is that first Triggerpull heavy.
well it is legitimate concern, when equipping a conscript military. Which is what Bundeswehr was doing. It would be pretty stupid to lose soldiers to their own weapons in the middle of a war, where every body of cannon fodder is needed. Who cares how attrotious the trigger is. If the soldier is unholstering their side arm and going for immediate DA, they will pull for dear life and jank like crazy. Because they just got ambushed badly enough to not have their main rifle near or even have time to cock the hammer. It is pretty much a hail mary option and the person is probably dead anyway. Pull with all your might and hope you hit before the other guy does. So against that unlikely usage mode, it is far sensible to prevent the more likely loss of soldier due to negligent discharge due to too hair line trigger. It was made to german military spec after all, so nobody elses concerns have any meaning outside of the customer: Bundeswehr. Some one wants lighter DA trigger? Contract H&K for couple hundred thousand pistols and they will put that trigger to any newton the customer wants.
What do you mean concerning recruits? I was a conscript/recruit during the early 1990s and we were never given pistols. We were only trained on G3, MG3 and RPG.
Good marksmanship and propper safety training is the way to go, not bad design choices that prevent you from acurate shooting. Yanking the trigger on a handgun is never a good idea and should not be used as an excuse. At 55 N you can hang a potato sack from the trigger. I've seen people trying to pull the trigger with two fingers, their entire wrist shaking. Yeah, that for sure promotes safe handling and marksmanship.
I was trained in 2007 and was actually trained on P1s. And truth be told, I handle those better than P8. That thick doublestack mag doesn't fit into my small hands all that good. Add a trigger that weights as much as a sack of potatoes and anyone's score is bound to go down the drain. Sights are better though.
Not to rain on the parade, but the P1's safety control is the exact opposite of the one on the P8. I have one, and the difference was obvious on the video. Apparently, the difference wasn't noticed as the video was made. The P1 is actually an improvement over the P38, having a better trigger and a less fragile magazine. Otherwise, good show.
With the way the markings are set up to disappear under the lever on the P1, I would expect that whatever is visible is the current condition of the gun - meaning down is safe and up is fire.
Wow, just stumbled across you & what a superb presentation. I am a new subscriber as of today, thank you. BTW I was one of the lucky ones that bought a P7 brand new in the 80s, still one of my favorites of all time.
Awesome Video! I love the USPs I have one of the First USP 45acp Compacts that came into the Country via HK back in the 90s and I still have it and shoot it once in a while. it's a bit bulky but a still a very nice Shooter.
Hi. I`ve been in Service in the Bundeswehr from 1998 til 2005 as a Seargent at the MP. The P8 is a good handgun, but I prefered the P1 (P38) even though it has had a less ammo capacity (8 : 15). The P1 ís easier to handle in action, because the "main" weight of the weapon (incl ammo) is in your hand, while the P8 is getting unbalancend the more ammo of the magazin you´re shooting. 15 rounds in the P8 are ok but with 1 round left in it, the weapon tends to be "barrel-heavy".
Hi, great video. Total nostalgia for me!! 😬🇩🇪 I think I've spotter another difference to the standard p8. The little guide strips on the frame weren't reenforced on the guns I've handled when they first came into use. I actually have been there when the g3 and the p1 went out of service.
When I went shopping for my first HK I really wanted the P8, just to have a little something special over the regular USP. I'm glad I never found one and just got a USP9, I had no idea the safety was "backwards". That would have driven me crazy! Thanks for another awesome video!
Fact check: Standard 9mm and 40 run at the SAME EXACT INTERNAL CHAMBER PRESSURE (approx 36,000psi). 9mm +P drives pressures up way past 40. 40 IS NOT HIGHER PRESSURE THAN 9mm. Period. Do the research.
@@ForgottenWeapons I apologize if that came across aggressive toward you. I meant it as an broad statement to counter the false info out there continually regurgitated about 40 being higher pressure than 9mm when it is not. Your videos are great. Take care
I never understood why the US considers the frame to be the transferable part. The barrel makes so much more sense seeing as how it's the part of the gun most necessary for shooting and the hardest for someone to illegally replicate.
Another reason for different barrels for police/military or civil use is an easy way for medical jurisprudence to figure out who shot or identify stolen guns even when the projectiles are pretty destroyed
It’s weird with your videos. I’m not even a real gun nut (15 months in the military, 30 years ago). But the way you explain things in a very neutral way and full of knowledge, is really fascinating. You also don’t come over as a military freak, if you know what I mean. I heard that people call you „Gun Jesus“ - completely hilarious 😂 Think about selling T-Shirts, I might get one. 😊 But seriously: Thank you for all the informative stuff 👍
I think the issue there is partly to do with the fact that standard loads according to the CIP (which regulates ammunition standards in Europe, incl. Russia) are higher pressure than SAAMI standards (at least in the case of 9x19). So if ammo is made to CIP spec, just for safety's sake assume that +P is the equivalent of American +P+.
The Bundeswehr doesn't give a thing about the CIP (unless they're legally required to do so, as with the markings on their guns), and mostly has ammunition manufactured for itself according to its own data specs (Technische Lieferbedingungen), which are regulated by the Ministry of Defence. And yes, those specs tend to differ from the CIP's specifications for the same ammunition, so the Bundeswehr generally loads both pistol and rifle rounds higher than even the CIP - which was part of the issue surrounding the G36, and why H&K never ended up being sued, because they specifically developed all their guns under the expectation of CIP standards.
@@tillmannfischer I should have been more specific, I read the comment in the sense that the gun was originally designed for .40 S&W so it's weird that it should have parts breaking under extended use of 9mm. Therefore I wanted to point out that on average, European loads are hotter than American loads. If the Bundeswehr uses loads with *even more* pressure, that simply reinforces the point I wanted to make: extensive use of very hot 9mm can wear down parts to breaking point even if the gun was originally designed for .40s.
Mirdarion the accuracy problems of the G36 (if you’re talking about those) were caused by the alloy used in DM11 ammunition cases produced by MEN if I’m not mistaken, which performed poorly I a hot chamber...😅
40 S&W is NOT higher pressure than the 9mm. 40 S&W is a 35,000 psi (SAAMI) cartridge. The 9mm is also a 35,000 psi Cartridge, whereas the quite common 9mm+P is 38,500 psi. The 40 S&W is harder of the pistol simply because it is a harder recoiling cartridge.
I had a USP .40 DAO, about 10 years old. One rear night sight (tritium) burnt out. The day I was supposed to go on duty I was practicing a few mag changes since I was transitioning from a Glock .40. Did a mag change and the back half of the firing pin fell out of the gun. Did not provide me with encouragement or confidence in that gun. I love my surplus P7, just can't love on the USP.
During my service time with this pistol, there was a saying: "15 warning shots and an aimed throw!" edit: I went into service by 02 and there were still infantry regiments/battalions using the P1.
that moment when you just learned more about your service firearm by watching a 15min video than during your entire military service
Well, one COULD read the regulation... buuuuuut....
I agree so very much. Never learned as much about my P1 or my P8 than here. Never knew the Bundeswehr Ammo is considered hot, explains a lot!
That happens a bunch on this channel.
@@mobrien7211 So heartbreakingly true.
My gun enthusiasm carrier in a nutshell.
3:40
German Interior Ministry "P" pistol designation history:
P1 - Walther P38
P2 -- SIG 210/4
P3 - Astra 300
P4 - Short-barrelled P38
P5 - Walther P5
P6 - SIG 225
P7 - H&K PSP
P8 - H&K USP
P9 - Glock 17
P10 - H&K USP Compact
P30 - HK P30
P12 - HK USP tactical
P21 - WALTHER PPK
P8C - H&K P8C C for Combat. German Military Special Forces (KSK) Version without a safety. Decocking
lever only.
P9M - Glock 17 Gen.3 M for maritim(maritime) Special Version for maritime forces. In use by GSG9
P9A1 - Glock 17 Gen.4 maritime version. In use by German Special Forces KSM(Kampfschwimmer).
P9S - H&K P9S GSG9,Bundesgrenzschutz(West German Border Patrol),Saarland State police
P11 - H&K P11 Underwater pistol
P11 - H&K HK4 German Customs and other police units
P2000 - H&K P2000 Police
P30 - H&K P30 German Military Special Forces(KSK), Feldjäger(Military Police), Zoll(German customs), Bundespolizei (Federal government police), Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Police Office)
SFP9 - H&K VP9/SFP9 GSG9, Police
P99 - Walther P99 Police
P229 - Sig P229 (Bundeskriminalamt Federal Criminal Police Office)
Glock 46 - Glock 46 Police Sachsen-Anhalt
The Police/ Staatspolizei used alot of 7.65 Pistole's. The PP & PPK, CZ 27, etc.
nope. the P1 is different from the P38 since it got an aluminum frame, instead of the steel frame.
and there's only P9M that is a modified Glock 17, the P9 with "M" would be the H&K P9. P9 and P9M were used by the GSG.
i like fire trucks and moster trucks
Quadratisch , praktisch , gut.
Because Deutsch.
From now on i will call all USP Derivatives just "Ritter Sport"^^
Deutsche qualität !
HEHEHEHE ihr eumel :D
@@NashmanNash Lol love that brand
Glock > USP
My favourite pistol.
Glocks are great, 1911s are sweet, M&Ps are decent, Walthers are fun. The USP just FEELS perfect to me. All the controls are big and smooth and located just right where they should be. It feels great in the hand. Points well.
When we carry the gun loaded. We don’t use the safety. It’s called “schnelle Feuerbereitschaft”. So the holstered loaded gun is on F with the hammer up. Still the gun has the second safety in the slight when it drops or such things.
Called condition 2 here in the US. Loaded mag, round in the chamber, hammer de cocked, safety off.
Thanks for the interesting info!
I absolutely love the USP and just HK's handgun designs in general.Not too fancy, clean-looking, reliable and effective.The Mk23, despite the size, is crazy effective, it withstood probably the harshest pistol trials ever, it has very good parts, a cool supressor and LAM, 12 rounds .45 ACP. HK is really good with rifles, SMGs and pistols.
The e in German is not silent, you pronounce Pistole like you did but with a “e” like in “everywhere”. It’s the same with Porsche, most of you pronounce it like Porsch.
Me nots understanded freend.
english bad. Sory
Like 'porscha' ... im english and pronounce the e as my grandfather was german...
As with any other self-professed Fracophile, Ian hasn't yet met a word that couldn't be better pronounced by dropping half the letters!
A porch is fixed to a house, a porsche is what you park next to it. But there seem to be o lot of people that drive their porch to work.
@@pteppig That's because nobody wants to risk damage their Porsche in some freak accident on the road, but a porch? You can just go to a lumber yards, and get the materials to fix it yourself lol
The USP makes Glock feel like a toy gun.
Hardly half of it looks like a glock. And is probably based off of glock pistols. Seriously though I know you are just a stupid troll though.
@@xcalibertrekker6693 Did you hurt your butt by sitting on your Glock? It's not my fault though... Seriously, you can feel the difference, it just does. Didn't say the Glock is bad or anything. They're both very good.
@Malcolm L Gen 5 10MM?
@@xcalibertrekker6693 H&K actuly was manufactoring polymer guns long before Gaston glock stoped sucking d!@&$ and making guns
To be fair, I think even the Borchardt C93 makes it feel like a toy
Germans make some of the best handguns
Aah. The good old P1: 8 warning shots and one deadly throw!
Lol, same was said about the PA63 here in Hungary.
So true 😅😂😂
We also called it the "Tomahawk" ... if you want to hit anything with it you have to throw it..😅
Browning has his name somewhere in every gun. In every gun there is an element of him. All hail our Lord and Saviour Browning and his prophet Gun Jesus
kev french QUIET HEATHEN (its a joke I’m aware that browning hasn’t touched everything although if they use double stack magazines then in theory you could credit Browning with that)
@@LoverBoy-ks9qh
Not really, there are double stacked pistol magazines before that. One that comes to mind is the experimental Nambu that was featured on this Channel, produced in 1920 iirc.
Hallowed be thy calibers
Exgrmbl I looked it up and a man called Dieudonné Saive is credited by some for the first double stack however he worked with Browning as well to create the Browning HiPower which maybe means that Browning also had some input?
@kev french The P8 is a mixture of any Browning pistol (the lock) and a P38.
Wow that really is a brand new example you have there. The proof marks are from the Ulm proof house, which is really close to me. :-) Thanks for the video!
A side note on the duplicate markings: IIRC the CIP (the international proofing commission) requires proof marks on all "significant parts" of a firearm, significant parts being defined as those which, when destroyed, render the firearm completely non-functional.
Edit: of course Ian's P1 is French, how could it not be French? :D
@@quentintin1 me neither, when the gun came on camera I just thought "something looks weird...wait, what are those markings?" and paused to have a look.
I don't know makers mark's/company names but i did see the nice "Made in France" stamp under it
Its also a Manurhin pistol as well which makes some of the best revolvers ever made as well which that's going to piss off some people (I'm going with the expertise of LifeSizePotato on it).
@@quentintin1 AFAIK after the WWII Germany was barred from manufacture of small arms (or at least it was heavily restricted) for some time. That meant that companies like Walther could not make any new guns. But they still owned the rights to the designs, so they licensed them to other companies abroad in order to stay afloat. Apparently Walther made some deals with Manurhin, who produced quite a lot of PPs/PPKs (including .22 versions) and P1s as well.
How do they get the CIP stamps on the springs?
German law (Gesetz über die Kontrolle von Kriegswaffen) limits and forbids the sale of weapons of war into conflict areas and countries with human rights violations. Mexico is regarded as such a country and since the USA shares a border and has a free trade agreement with mexico, the export of purely military versions of H&K guns to the USA is strictly limited. This may be the reason why the H&K P8 was imported to the USA by a third party importer. Heckler & Koch is actually now beeing investigated because the US Division of H&K helped with illegal gun trafficking into Mexico.
superhavi
HK didn't do it
President obama and the ATF did. It was called operation fast and furious.
In order to track down cartel leaders they purposely let firearms cross into Mexico.
The operation failed miserably and become wide known after an agent was killed with one of the firearms allowed to cross.
Maybe an HK authorized dealer got in the mix BUT HK didn't sell with the intent on Mexico getting possession
Hail to The_Rooster Nono, the HK scandal regards HK USA selling arms directly to the Mexican government, quite unrelated.
But they sell a lot of equipment to the saudis (Leopards 2 A?), where they are using in Yemen righ now
@@jairosantos3941 afaik they stopped arms exports to saudi arabia?
@@jairosantos3941 Leo contract was cancelled, saudis bought more abramses
Any chance to get your hands on a H&K P11? The underwater five barrel spec ops handgun
Oh Jesus....Ian in a kiddie pool firing off 500+gr darts
@@Kalashinator You meant "Oh gun jesus"
probably only during a visit to the gray room
@@seth4x4 I’ve been to the Grayroom and there are multiple G11s there
Does anyone happen to know if the FN PDW prototypes (or at least designs leading to the p90) still exist? Ian really should do a video on them really interesting stuff certainly forgotten weapons.
Theres a new video of the Hill guns where the p90 mag was based on
Little addition to this issue with the „reverse“ safety lever: our (German) manual of arms does not allow you to carry your weapon cocked. Instead you allways carry it loaded, decocked and on „F“. After firing and conducting a magazine change you decock the weapon before holstering it again
@ derBroker Is it considered a safety issue to carry the gun cocked and on safe in German military?
@@dexm2010 our explanation was that if needed in a heated situation, simply drawing and squeezing in double action would be faster and more intuitive. We were taught the "Kontaktstellung" , which is a position where you already aim with the pistol about 5 m in front of you to the ground, that signalizes you're pretty much about to use lethal force and squeeze the trigger already one third to half. So pulling up an inch and then squeezing the rest of the force would be quicker than switching the safety lever in case you'd have to use the pistol. Also they explained the force you'd need to exert on the trigger (around 5kg) was enough of a safety to carry it in F position.
I really liked my P8 in the german army for 4 years... Good reliable pistol, never had any problems with her to hit my targets, no jamming or other problems.
Great.
03:47 Should you be interested in such minutiae, Ian: the "e" in "Pistole" is not silent in German.
The "le" sounds kinda like the french word "le" as in "le tour de france" or whatever example suits you. Or say it in three words: *piss* *to* *le*
That also works...
Can you please somehow find an Artic Warfare sniper rifle to review? I've always been interested in those firearms. Great videos recently by the way, Gun Jesus.
It's filmed and coming. L96, L115, and L118.
@@ForgottenWeapons we await with bated breath, Gun Jesus
Are you asking cuz of Counterstrike having both it and the USP?
He has spoken, bring his word to the weapon heathens
@Darth Maul cuz it's his job?
"Presumably cheaper to manufacture."
oh so they stopped excessively stamping everythin-
Well, they're not stamping everything "excessively" in the sense that they're stamping it more than they need to. Legally, they are required to have markings on all "significant parts", i.e. all parts that render the gun completely non-functional as a firearm if destroyed.
@@nindger4270 So just about everything?
@@edwardteach3000 Well no, "non-functional as a firearm" not meaning that it doesn't function as intended, but literally that if these parts are destroyed, it can no longer be considered a firearm. Mostly that means pressure bearing components. At least that's my understanding of the current situation, gun laws are once again being changed though...
@@edwardteach3000 we are talking a german produch...duh
jalpat 22 I see what you did there. ;)
I'd like to see a traditional vs polygonal rifling video!
Likewise, I understand the physical difference but not the pros and cons of each. I may have been taught to shoot when I was knee high to a grasshopper but the opportunities for ownership and use are somewhat limited in my country (UK) so service rifles and shotguns are about it. Plus no armourer was going to let the grubby fingered sprogs pull apart HIS weapons to see how they worked. Something I thought a touch unfair until I too was responsible for equipment used by others and the thought of two 15 year olds even touching one of my servers fills me with dread. I can now imagine how the same thing felt for a certain RAF Regiment armourer turning around and seeing a pair of cadets finish field stripping the GPMG on display!
interested on this as well
Polyaganal rifling reduces bore friction considerably more than traditional rifling so u can use hotter ammo it tends to handle p plus ammo better but it can be ammo fussy also it really has less fouling tha traditional rifling as the bore dosent cut into the round say every hundred rpunds itl need a clean but thats only from powder fouling
the one yes I would as well. I’ve read lots of forum BS on the subject but would love to get Ian’s take on the pros and cons.
*NOT A SOLDIERS GUN?*
still one of my favorite videos on the site
UNRELIABLE?!
How Cokeman has lived this long despite his shenanigans is beyond me.
Jacob Berk dude was annoying I unsub’d like 6-7 years ago lol
Seeing a Cokeman reference here is quite odd.
My service pistol, i like it very much
Yup, for me too.
Got chance to shoot 9mm version. Smooth gun to shoot.
@@Taistelukalkkuna Absolutely and it´s also realy nice to handle with gloves or cold hands. In terms of reliability the P8 runs a like Olympic athlete. Can´t remeber a single issue in the last 6000-7000 rounds.
Not many people in the army that think that way...
@@Frontline_view_kaiser You will always find faults. Every weapon is a compromise.
What did you hear or what sort of problems did you encounter?
Here in Germany we carry the gun decocked with the safety on fire
Interesting
Makes good sense to do it that way. The heavy double action trigger pull is the best safety mechanism out there to avoid negligent/accidental discharges (after your own common sense, of course). I own two H&K USP pistols, one full size and chambered for .45 ACP and a USP Compact chambered in .40 S&W (with an additional barrel chambered for .357 SIG). I always carry them with a full magazine inserted, a round chambered, the weapon decocked and the safety off. No way that gun is going off unless I consciously pull that trigger with the equivalent of 51 N/11 lbs.
schnelle Feuerbereitschaft!
I think its a stand out feature of this channel that Ian introduces himself each time like its his first video. Top quality viewing. Love it.
Would love to see a full video on the USP series, going into the similarities and differences with the MK23 SOCOM and talking about the rifling pros/cons...
great info
This guy has the best job on the planet I'm so jealous
Jealousy is bad friend. Cain killed his brother Abel out of jealousy.
I really dig the lever/paddle style magazine release you see on some of the HKs and Walthers. Seems like the easiest and most versatile of all the releases I've come across. This one could be made a little bigger maybe.
stereomike111 I’ll take anything over a heel release.
Trust me when I say this; you don't want it any bigger. It's quite comfortable to use still and would otherwise risk accidentally releasing the magazine.
I might prefer a good heel release to some of ones that place the button in the middle of the grip. That can be at least partially covered if you're right handed, and completely if you're a leftie. And I woud prefer any type to anything that doesn't have removable magazine.
@@DGARedRaven I'll take you'r word on it. I haven't tried this particular one. The ones I handled were all larger to some extent I think.
Nope i own one its perfect
The first pistol I ever actually bought for myself was a USP 9. Great gun. Never malfunctioned once despite being abused often. Ate every ammo I ever forced through it. I sold it to my brother- in- law who shot it often and never cleaned, nor lubed it. Decades later, the frame rails are ground into slivers and rifling is all but gone, still shoots like a brand new gun. That's why an HK will always be worth the price.
I carry the HK 45 and Hk P30, super happy with HK
Can u do aswell the H&K P30? Its the service weapon for the Personal Protection Team from the Bundeswehr MP.
I'll throw in the P12 with that, an absolute blast to shoot, both suppressed and unsurpressed. ;)
As long as its the P30LEM which is used by Federal Police and the Feldjäger.
How come as soon as I see a gun on gun broker ian has to tell me everything cool about it....rip my savings
I have usp 40 from the 90’s love it
I have both the usp.45 and the newer hk45.both are well worth the money
For the P1 we used to say "8 shots and one aimed thorw ... expect the throw to be the deadliest ..." loosly translated.
The P8 was such an upgrade.
Love the USP. Wish they would have refreshed it a bit over the years. I'm sure the pistols HK currently offers are great, but they don't do it for me like the USP.
I have a '94 dated USP 40 with a couple thousand rounds through it. It's a great handgun.
an excellent pistol, loved it thru my whole service time. Nice to shoot, easy to clean and most of all, precise.
Would really like to see a detailed video explaining how the 40 s&w is higher pressure than 9mm. The reason I ask is because all of the reloading manuals, Wikipedia, Sammi, and manufacturers specifications list them being identical. I understand that 40 typically has a heavier bullet which translates into more recoil which in turn could cause more ware to the frame rails and slide...
You and Chef John should trade places for a video on April Fools Day
I love that stuff, like when Craig Ferguson and Drew Carey traded shows also for April Fools.
That was an insightful and well told told story about HK going from 40 to 9 while everyone else developed the other way. Top shelf work
I would love to see a pros-and-cons video on polygonal versus traditional rifling in a barrel your videos are always excellent and super informative and always engaging thank you!
I just picked up a 9mm and i notice a blow back of rounds when using a 115 grain or lower. Other than that a great gun. I think the sig .226 was the best pistols. Uppere and lower full metal
Not better than HK.
The Bundeswehr carries the P8 with safety on F. So you are able to directly shot by drawing the gun. So it is not necessary to change the position of Fire and Safety
The way god intended lol
Plus at least when this was adopted originally: Bundeswehr was a conscript military. Which makes a massive training issue, at which point "which way the safety turns" is actually a real legitimate concern. The people aren't in constant active duty to be just given and trained to new equipment immediately.
It doesn't make jack jump difference, if the other way is tacti speedier. The military has hundreds of thousands of people in reserve, who trained the other way. If mobilization happens, they don't have time to go "Oh hi, your new pistol has the safety other way round".
Soooo it is a really good reason to have the safety work the same way, to have a gun that has same operating processes. The shape and exterior might change, but if the check list and movements are same, you are good to go. Change to completely different operating principles and that means lots of rehearsal training about the new system. Plus people who get confused between new and old gear. Because Conscript militaries newer throw stuff away. Even if there was new shiny P8, the P1s would still be in stockpile and prop up now and then.
that is entirelly incorrect.
bundeswher soldiers (usually ones on guard duty since the P8 is rarely used for anything else) carry it with the hammer down, the safety on and no round in the chamber, unless they have been specifically ordered to carry "ready to fire" which means round chambered, hammer cocked and the safety is still on in that configuration.
the only gun that the bundeswher uses that is ever carried without the safety on is the MG-3, which is because the MG-3 firess from an open bolt and since the gun is carried with the bolt closed, it can never fire from that position anyways. (you also can not engage the safety with the bolt closed)
@@windhelmguard5295 i'm in the bundeswehr and that is not true. Its called "schnelle feuerbereitschaft". Loaded, uncocked, firemode.
+pizzawerfer1604 They have started doing that since about 2010, before that the safety lever was used as intended (i.e. pull out the gun and put the safety to F). Schnelle Feuerbereitschaft (or Patrouillenstellung as it was called at first) was only introduced with the nSAK, which is still relatively new, compared to the overall service life of the P8.
I carried the very similar, if ever so slightly larger USP .45 (.45 acp) as a duty weapon in my old police department for a few years. I was a detective corporal at the time and even used one of the first commercial Kydex holsters for it. I went through FBI Basic SWAT training with it and it is an amazing pistol. I had just worn out a SIG P220 (in fairness, I bought the SIG used and shot it A LOT) when a gun dealer friend had me try out the USP. It was a personal weapon of his. In shooting from 5 yards to 25+ yards my group (using American Eagle ball ammo) never got larger than two and a half inches (one ragged hole, and a much smaller hold from 50' and in). Perfect salesman that he is, he told me, "Just keep it for a while and let me know if you want to buy it. We'll work out a deal." Yeah ... it's been mine ever since. ;) I carried it until I thought I'd broken the firing pin. Lacking gunsmith funds (ah, the delightful low wages of career LEOs) I opted for a vintage Remington-Rand 1911 A1. Thereafter the department purchased SIG P226 and P229 pistols in .40 S&W and we were made to carry only what was issued. Since then I fixed the USP (firing pin wasn't broken just gummed up ... FWIW, _I_ kept the weapon otherwise clean, just never checked that firing pin channel and removing said firing pin takes certain tools and skills most local 'smiths did not possess). I carried it off-duty some and to this day carry it sometimes, especially in cooler months when I can have a large shirt or jacket on. It never really fit my hand perfectly (HUGE) grip but nevertheless shot quite well. The 9mm and .40 versions are slightly smaller and fit me much better. But even that huge .45acp version is unbelievably easy to carry all day. Heh, once when off-duty, five thugs came running at me (I'd interrupted them curb-stomping another fellow, inconsiderate cuss that I am). Suddenly seeing that huge pistol come out and looking down that huge bore all five of them stopped in their tracks, dove into their car and took off for parts unknown. I counted that as a save. ;)
Aahahahhahahhah lmao with the funny story
its cheaper to buy a new gun than to repair a presumably broken firing pin? wtf
I find that tale highly unlikely from your writing alone. Writing reports is half the job, you would not get anywhere near those postings. But I'm sure you've read a few detective novels.
It's german doctrine to have the safety 'backwards'. They've pretty much always had the safe position down and the fire position up, it's just the way they've always done it. At least since the Luger. The safe up positioning is kind of an american thing since the 1911's safety lever works that way.
@@AngeredKabar I also like pushing down to disengage the safety more but that might be due to being way more familiar and trained with the G36, if I had the option I would much rather have S - F - then decock with the G36's lever as opposed to the F - S - decock we have. Maybe it's just me not being a huge fan of pistols. It's a fine firearm - from what I can tell anyways -, so I don't hold it as a huge drawback, more like a preference thing.
@@FrontlinerCdV I'd put the decock above the current top spot if possible, seems like it'd be a bit inconvenient to get overzealous with de-safing and drop the hammer by mistake.
Same reason the engine is still in the wrong place on Porsches
@@AngeredKabar What really gets me is the euro mag release vs US.
I like the euro ones alot better, just seems more natural to me, you basically automatically retain the mag
ToastyMozart it takes a significant amount of pressure to use the decock feature, it’s definitely a deliberate movement. I worried about that until I got my hands on mine and realized the chances were slim to none. ✌️
iirc, the P12 is the USP .45 without safety, used in limited numbers at some point by german special forces.
Intuitive ergos & Accuracy is great. I've shot at & hit a steel street cover at 100 yards with my 1996 USP 9mm.
The request was for a manual safety where the lever automatically returned to the ‚Safe‘ position after decocking. The easiest way was to turn around the ‚Safe‘ and ‚Fire‘ positions on the decocking lever to fulfill that request. The pistol is carried in the so-called "schnelle Feuerbereitschaft" (quick fire readiness) uncocked and unlocked (lever on F).
I was wondering about that. I dont like it personally.
whatching this made me start thinking, my usp compact 45 been either on my hip or within reach for nearly 30 years . never feel safer , what a great weapon, super reliable. I have always joked that you could probabaly put the wrong ammo in and it would work.
I was wondering if that cracking would be caused by the fired round having a similar rearward impulse as the 40 s&w in a smaller area. I would imagine the 40 would spread that over a wider area. Also, I think the polygonal vs cut rifling would be an interesting topic for you and Karl to dig into on Inrange. Great video as usual.
I would also like a video on polygonal v. traditional rifling
I suspect the original internal cuts to lighten the slide were too close to the breech face.
The HK USP 45 is a product improved 1911. The improvements are: Polymer frame, magazine capacity, magazine release, and recoil dampening. I will always love my 1911s and I will always love my USP 45s.
I love your channel man, its great for me to see my old service weapons one more time as well as seeing them pulled apart and analysed compared to other systems out there. Believe it or not, after 20 years one kinda forgets how to disassemble them xD
Love this one, it was the first gun I ever shot. I was confused at the time knowing it's a USP yet it said "P8"
I do prefer the German style, just like when you decock a Sig or make safe a Beretta, down for safe makes alot more sense to me.
It's missing its mandatory flashlight/laser on the front
The Bundeswehr doesn't issue LLMs (Laser-/Lichtmodul, LAM). Technically, they bought a couple thousands of them, but they were never issued to soldiers. Probably rotting in some storage unit somewhere, although a few of them might have ended up with the KSK.
Mirdarion way to go, killing the joke buddy..... gg
@@tillmannfischer "Rotting in some storage unit somewhere"?! damn i feel bad for the german taxpayers
+Alex Hendel Joke? Nein! Jokes are VERBOTEN!
@@tillmannfischer Bundeswehr use LLM01 for rifle and LLM-pi to pistols, and they are issued to soldiers, more for "elite" units like EGB Fallschimjager and units in deployment
Actually, .40SW and 9x19 has identical maximum allowed pressure 35 000 psi (by SAAMI standards). 40SW has greater momentum and energy and that is why it is harder on the guns. But cool video anyway.
Is there any reason for such a hot load of German Army / NATO 9x19mm ammunition other than having to be able to reliable function with submachineguns as well? For the German Army that would have been in the 90s - and often still is - the MP2A1, an Uzi variant.
That at least was the reason I was told at Infantry school as to why the German military uses such a hot load.
As always a very well presented and made video Ian!
@@comsubpac I think logistics is just about the most important thing in any military, so I'd be happy to believe that the more interchangeable parts you have, the better. Wasn't that the whole point of the NATO rounds anyway, so that you could interchange ammunition with allies in a pinch as well, even if you used different guns.
@@comsubpac I'm with you there. Although I'm not sure if every unit is already re-equipped. Infantry school surely still has tons of Uzis for training - if only because German Army never bought blanks and adapters for the MP7. Or have they by now?
@@comsubpac True true. It just totally escapes me why they seem to not introduce Blank firing adaptors and blanks for most of the "new" weapons. I'm not even sure if I've seen one with the MG5 but all that is another topic. Thanks for your answers and opinion.
@@The_Foxymew Mags too, with the rifles anyways.
In theory at least. Literally every single official Manual for Bundeswehr weapons explicitly forbids firing anything but the few approved German munition types.
I own a HK USP .45 compact, single and double action with a decocker. Bought it new 13 years ago and it is the one gun I won't sell. When I was stationed in Alaska where it is cooler and I wore bulkier clothing, I carried it all the time. I carry it on fire with the hammer dropped in double action. Never had a single malfunction with it regardless of what kind of ammo I've fed it. Also very accurate, especially for a "combat" handgun. It's got it's disadvantages, but for me the pros outweigh the cons.
I find it odd how the cartridge marking reads "9mmx19"
6:28 *ÜBER S ENTSPANNEN*
This was actually really interesting because I just got a nice airsoft USP and getting to inspect it along with Ian inspecting the P8 was really quite fun.
My reason for airsoft because I like guns but don't want to deal with actually owning real ones, as well as price. Good golly I don't have enough extra money to be buying real guns and ammo.
Lots of P8's in Canada. Unfortunately P4's and 5's are prohibited.
Back in service in the early 90's i was told by my instructor that my P38 was deadliest when being thrown at the enemies face as soon as he came as close as 20m...The P8 was quite an improvement
Was a common BW joke when I served in the BW in last stages of the cold war (87/88),later as a reservist I had the opportunity to practise with the P8. In my humble opinion the P8 fits much better in a conscript-army, because you get proper results with much less training/drill than with a P1/P38.
I’m a German soldier and this thing recoils way too fucking hard, difficult to shoot anything over 30 yards
I love this channel for it's calm and informative content. No revolutionary conspiracy, just technique and the love for it.
Can we use hollowpoint cartridges in this pistol hk p8a1.
If yes that's good or if not then why.
Interesting, I cannot reach real firearms in my region. Fun fact: air soft company copy exactly the same slide structure, thats why toys keep cracking at the “reinforced” part in p8a1.
Now i know why!
HK USP is the second handgun I ever bought( First brand new firearm I've ever purchased too) Everyone that shoots it , even if they hate it's look always compliments how smooth it shoots , especially with higher pressure rounds.
Similar aproach had the Steyr M9 in designing the gun for the 40s&w and then chamber it to 9mm. By the way thats a gun that in its first generation was quite interesting to look and compare with other black guns .
The backwards safety action is quite a tradition in german military handguns since the P08.
My former service pistol.
Good gun. No expert though. Don´t say there aren´t better ones, but this one does the job.
07:29 Never had an issue with the fire position being up. Never heard anybody else complain about it either. The distance your thumb has to move to set it to fire is so minimal that i can in all honesty not see any relevant delay there. Then again i exclusively trained with that pistol so i never had to switch from a different setup. I think that this might be an issue exclusive to competition shooters where milliseconds count, maybe. Not the military.
@ martialme84 This is obviously an old comment by now, but I think it would really only matter if someone wanted to carry the gun cocked and locked (that is, hammer cocked, safety on) because that might be noticeably more clumsy to push the lever up off safe as opposed to down to fire the weapon.
From what I am reading in the comments, it sounds like German soldiers are not allowed to carry the weapon cocked with the safety on anyway, so I suppose it really doesn't matter.
Also I don't know about Europe, but in USA some competitions won't let you carry a gun of this type with the hammer cocked and on safe either, even though the design of the weapon allows for it, technically.
Fascinating, fills in a gap in my knowledge of HK
In the German Army we use to say: you shoot 15 warning shots and have one deadly throw.... It's the shooting brick
yea it says a lot about a guns quality when the shooting test you take with it deems you completely missing one out of four shots and just barely getting the other three on target, acceptable.
Thank you Ian, finally I know why i never was able to hit a target consistently and why the gun never felt user friendly. As you said the Bundeswehr seems to use "very hot 9mm ammo", well, gfys Bundeswehr, I never felt comfortable shooting nor did it enhance my impression that pistol. I served 15 years as an Officer and the pistols always felt "too hot" now that you mention it.
from what a bunch of people are saying, the Bundeswehr likes using stupidly hot loads of 9mm. in the US and most other countries, there are 3 designations for pressure for 9mm, standard, +P, and +P+. +P+ is considered anything over the standardized +P pressure threshold. the standard loading for the Bundeswehr is equivalent to our +P+ here in the US.
Also, I hear the German government requested that the double action trigger pull be stupidly heavy, to keep the grunts from accidentally shooting themselves...
That would explain why you likely had problems with follow up shots, also explains the short service life with cracked slides and other problems... also, its never fun to shoot extremely overpressured cartridges.
@@Elc22 the thing here in the german army is the trigger pull on the unchoked hammer is for a special way to carry the P8. basicly we walk around with then not on safe, always on the fire positon. We use the switch to bring the hammer forward without firing and then carry it with the hammer forward and on fire. Called "Schnelle Feuerbereitschaft" Quick Fire Readyness.
HK MK23 next please.
Thanks for this Video.
I really enjoy your content.
Dear Ean, the "e" in Pistole is spoken in german (we don´t have silent letters) so it would be more like "Pis-to-le".
Andreas Müller pish-toh-leh.
And its Ian
@@borismuller86 Gesundheit
For me the pistol was a bit to clunky the grip to unergonomical and the mag release was to much of a fiddle. As a left hand user it wasn't great either. Still hit every target for gold.
You missed to mention one essential fact about the P8. The double-action trigger is absolutely atrocious. Since the Military was too scared of recruits accidentally Shooting themselves, they requested the DA Trigger to be set to something like 55N. Since HK wanted to guarantee this troughout the Service life of the pistol, they cranked it up to about 57N, taking into account the wear on the spring. Once the hammer is cocked, gun runs nice enough, but boy oh boy is that first Triggerpull heavy.
well it is legitimate concern, when equipping a conscript military. Which is what Bundeswehr was doing. It would be pretty stupid to lose soldiers to their own weapons in the middle of a war, where every body of cannon fodder is needed.
Who cares how attrotious the trigger is. If the soldier is unholstering their side arm and going for immediate DA, they will pull for dear life and jank like crazy. Because they just got ambushed badly enough to not have their main rifle near or even have time to cock the hammer. It is pretty much a hail mary option and the person is probably dead anyway. Pull with all your might and hope you hit before the other guy does.
So against that unlikely usage mode, it is far sensible to prevent the more likely loss of soldier due to negligent discharge due to too hair line trigger. It was made to german military spec after all, so nobody elses concerns have any meaning outside of the customer: Bundeswehr.
Some one wants lighter DA trigger? Contract H&K for couple hundred thousand pistols and they will put that trigger to any newton the customer wants.
What do you mean concerning recruits? I was a conscript/recruit during the early 1990s and we were never given pistols. We were only trained on G3, MG3 and RPG.
Good marksmanship and propper safety training is the way to go, not bad design choices that prevent you from acurate shooting. Yanking the trigger on a handgun is never a good idea and should not be used as an excuse. At 55 N you can hang a potato sack from the trigger. I've seen people trying to pull the trigger with two fingers, their entire wrist shaking. Yeah, that for sure promotes safe handling and marksmanship.
I was trained in 2007 and was actually trained on P1s. And truth be told, I handle those better than P8. That thick doublestack mag doesn't fit into my small hands all that good. Add a trigger that weights as much as a sack of potatoes and anyone's score is bound to go down the drain. Sights are better though.
@@CementPie Luftwaffe?
*"HK" is never a bad choice;)*
USP has the smoothest action I have ever fired
unless you it's non charged before, the double action trigger on this military USP is crazy,, way above 50kn
@@Markus-zb5zd I mean the slide moving back and forward, rather then the trigger. But the trigger is OK to me
Stefan Cornwell yep, it’s very easy to rack the slide.
Sig p226 is smoother to me. I've have both. Still love my USP 9
Not to rain on the parade, but the P1's safety control is the exact opposite of the one on the P8. I have one, and the difference was obvious on the video. Apparently, the difference wasn't noticed as the video was made. The P1 is actually an improvement over the P38, having a better trigger and a less fragile magazine. Otherwise, good show.
With the way the markings are set up to disappear under the lever on the P1, I would expect that whatever is visible is the current condition of the gun - meaning down is safe and up is fire.
Cool video, please do one for the H&K MK 23 / US SOCOM 23.
AKA the desert eagle sized .45 acp
Didn't know that, thanks!!
I've held a MK23 in a gun shop before, it was brand new and never fired. Felt legendary.
Lucky!!!
Wow, just stumbled across you & what a superb presentation. I am a new subscriber as of today, thank you. BTW I was one of the lucky ones that bought a P7 brand new in the 80s, still one of my favorites of all time.
40S&W and 9mm are the same pressure Ian. 35,000PSI.
AjackLee4 I don’t know why people don’t know this.
@@bumps1612 40S&W was designed with the same powders in mind. It's not a more harsh cartridge, it's only more powerful.
@@AjackLee4 it cant be more powerfull and also the same PSI
@@therideneverends1697 Yes it can, it's a bigger cartridge with a bigger bullet.
AjackLee4 accelerating a heavier bullet to the same velocity as s lighter bullet requires more force overall. Hence the harshness
In the Bundeswehr the P8 is carried decocked and on fire in the holster.
where is the silencer
Awesome Video! I love the USPs I have one of the First USP 45acp Compacts that came into the Country via HK back in the 90s and I still have it and shoot it once in a while. it's a bit bulky but a still a very nice Shooter.
Hi. I`ve been in Service in the Bundeswehr from 1998 til 2005 as a Seargent at the MP.
The P8 is a good handgun, but I prefered the P1 (P38) even though it has had a less
ammo capacity (8 : 15). The P1 ís easier to handle in action, because the "main"
weight of the weapon (incl ammo) is in your hand, while the P8 is getting unbalancend
the more ammo of the magazin you´re shooting. 15 rounds in the P8 are ok but with 1
round left in it, the weapon tends to be "barrel-heavy".
Hi, great video. Total nostalgia for me!! 😬🇩🇪
I think I've spotter another difference to the standard p8.
The little guide strips on the frame weren't reenforced on the guns I've handled when they first came into use.
I actually have been there when the g3 and the p1 went out of service.
When I went shopping for my first HK I really wanted the P8, just to have a little something special over the regular USP. I'm glad I never found one and just got a USP9, I had no idea the safety was "backwards". That would have driven me crazy! Thanks for another awesome video!
Fact check: Standard 9mm and 40 run at the SAME EXACT INTERNAL CHAMBER PRESSURE (approx 36,000psi). 9mm +P drives pressures up way past 40. 40 IS NOT HIGHER PRESSURE THAN 9mm. Period. Do the research.
You are correct; I should be saying bolt thrust.
@@ForgottenWeapons I apologize if that came across aggressive toward you. I meant it as an broad statement to counter the false info out there continually regurgitated about 40 being higher pressure than 9mm when it is not. Your videos are great. Take care
I have an USP 45. It was expensive but it's so smooth and pleasant to fire.
I never understood why the US considers the frame to be the transferable part. The barrel makes so much more sense seeing as how it's the part of the gun most necessary for shooting and the hardest for someone to illegally replicate.
Another reason for different barrels for police/military or civil use is an easy way for
medical jurisprudence to figure out who shot or identify stolen guns even when the projectiles are pretty destroyed
So anyone else read the title as The Budwiser's USP?
Nein
I did
@Zed Isdead I don't drink, if that's what you are implying. It was just a simple misreading.
Well, at least, both are of german origin ;D.
It's the Superbowl edition HK
It’s weird with your videos. I’m not even a real gun nut (15 months in the military, 30 years ago). But the way you explain things in a very neutral way and full of knowledge, is really fascinating.
You also don’t come over as a military freak, if you know what I mean.
I heard that people call you „Gun Jesus“ - completely hilarious 😂
Think about selling T-Shirts, I might get one. 😊
But seriously: Thank you for all the informative stuff 👍
Funnily the P8 has some Part breakages Problems due to hot 9mm NATO loads...
Ze Germans must be firing pretty darn close to Ze Proof rounds as the USP in all of it's other guises will handle +P ammo as their regular diet...
I think the issue there is partly to do with the fact that standard loads according to the CIP (which regulates ammunition standards in Europe, incl. Russia) are higher pressure than SAAMI standards (at least in the case of 9x19). So if ammo is made to CIP spec, just for safety's sake assume that +P is the equivalent of American +P+.
The Bundeswehr doesn't give a thing about the CIP (unless they're legally required to do so, as with the markings on their guns), and mostly has ammunition manufactured for itself according to its own data specs (Technische Lieferbedingungen), which are regulated by the Ministry of Defence. And yes, those specs tend to differ from the CIP's specifications for the same ammunition, so the Bundeswehr generally loads both pistol and rifle rounds higher than even the CIP - which was part of the issue surrounding the G36, and why H&K never ended up being sued, because they specifically developed all their guns under the expectation of CIP standards.
@@tillmannfischer I should have been more specific, I read the comment in the sense that the gun was originally designed for .40 S&W so it's weird that it should have parts breaking under extended use of 9mm. Therefore I wanted to point out that on average, European loads are hotter than American loads. If the Bundeswehr uses loads with *even more* pressure, that simply reinforces the point I wanted to make: extensive use of very hot 9mm can wear down parts to breaking point even if the gun was originally designed for .40s.
Mirdarion the accuracy problems of the G36 (if you’re talking about those) were caused by the alloy used in DM11 ammunition cases produced by MEN if I’m not mistaken, which performed poorly I a hot chamber...😅
The P1 was in use when I was on military service in the late 1990s in Germany and is still in use is some units.
I have H&K P8, and for me P8 safety lever is better than that in the USP :>
40 S&W is NOT higher pressure than the 9mm. 40 S&W is a 35,000 psi (SAAMI) cartridge.
The 9mm is also a 35,000 psi Cartridge, whereas the quite common 9mm+P is 38,500 psi.
The 40 S&W is harder of the pistol simply because it is a harder recoiling cartridge.
I had a USP .40 DAO, about 10 years old. One rear night sight (tritium) burnt out. The day I was supposed to go on duty I was practicing a few mag changes since I was transitioning from a Glock .40. Did a mag change and the back half of the firing pin fell out of the gun. Did not provide me with encouragement or confidence in that gun. I love my surplus P7, just can't love on the USP.
During my service time with this pistol, there was a saying: "15 warning shots and an aimed throw!"
edit: I went into service by 02 and there were still infantry regiments/battalions using the P1.