I'm loving the content Rugs. This is exactly what I was looking for. My group of friends has sat out TBC and we're looking at coming back to Wrath for a 10-man "strict" setup. That is, doing all of Wrath (T7 to T10) as a 10man with a fairly set comp. I'd love to see a video from you on loot distribution to such a group in wrath. Which classes/roles should get high-competition gear first? What loot system makes for the least drama without hampering progression? What to do about Pugs? etc.
Tanks always get prio on loot... then healers i would say and then distribute loot depending on dps due to some classes dps higher on certain tiers but overall 10m runs you will gear up fast
I'm going through all your videos getting ready for Wrath. Loving the content! It's interesting how different the class priorities are now. My raiding guild when wrath originally released had 4 hunters and 5 dps warriors in naxx 25.
With your "balanced" comp, you are not able to have both melee and spell haste unless your unholy goes Frost DK, and I think that is more valuable than the buff to diseases (which only adds a touch of damage for your Shadow Priest). The reason is only Shaman can bring the spell haste buff, but it takes up the same slot (air) that imp Windfury totem would use. That spell haste buff is pretty huge, since it applies to all of the caster DPS and healers. Note that this is a different buff than the haste % buff from Ret or Balance and stacks with this buff. Also, instead of the Assassination Rogue you could instead bring a Ret Paladin. They cover the Critical Strike buff that Assassination or Elemental would otherwise provide, plus they have the 3% damage buff if your mage is not Arcane. This would also allow you to cover all of the Paladin buffs (Kings/Might/Sanc), have another Aura Mastery which is useful on certain fights, on top of the fact that he could have a Divine Sacrifice/Divine Guardian off spec for cheesing out certain fights since you already have tanks covered. Another small thing is if your DK isn't Frost that also provides the melee attack speed debuff. At the very least, if he switches to Combat, that would provide the physical vulnerability debuff which you otherwise would not have. The one big benefit of the Rogue is ToT, but if you are rocking a Pally and DK tank then you would have to ask yourself if you really need it since they are the best tanks for threat. Another option would be Feral for the melee crit buff.
All great points and nothing that I disagree with for sure. Of course you can always optimize these comps and I admit in the video that bringing an assassination rogue brings pretty much nothing to your comp. Most of what you said is accurate. What I like about how my iteration of the comp works is I'm not bringing a FDK, Combat Rogue, and Enhance all to the same raid (like you had suggested). If we did that, all 3 of them would be competing for the same weapon drops a lot of the time. This current comp makes sure these melee get all the weps that they want since it's not like 10man needs to be optimized much further. You want to optimize for a strong raid, but also dont want to waste/miss out on loot ya know
this was really nice! i personally hope to get a nice 10 man group of friends to do all the content. Especially liked the talking about chosing classes to improve item distribution and not wasting loot.
Really interesting content, been chain watching your wotlk videos put out this month. Back several years ago some friends and I played on Gamer District and we didn't have enough to do a 25 man (we are NA), so to spice things up we did 10 man strict progressive starting at T7. No 25 man gear at all. We did all content but didn't try Yogg 0 as we thought our comp just couldn't handle it. I believe this is the hardest fight in 10 man WotLK, actually, not HLK and Algalon isn't even that bad. Our comp was pretty well balanced, but not perfect. 10 Strict brings a lot of interesting challenges since most of the OP gear is from 25 mans. You end up with situations like elemental shaman endgame bis is a gunship trinket (264) and the 5 man ToC haste trinket (200), because you just don't have gear options. The server we were playing on had HLK hardcoded to 10% buff, making this even more challenging, but we did eventually kill him after a couple months of gearing and practice, 11 seconds before enrage! Using that experience I've put together a 10 man strict comp that we'll be running in WotLK classic as a bonus raid, apart from our main 25 mans/10 mans. It features the skeleton you use here in the balanced comp, prot pally/blood tanks and pally/disc heals, but the fill is a bit different. Replenishment is hard to get, and certainly required on many fights. Destruction loses the least, IMO between warlock and hunter. Shadow priest is hard to fit. Arcane still does very good damage and that 3% dps buff is worth not being fire. Also your gear will not be nearly as good, so fire's scaling won't be as strong. Elemental's utility is just huge despite the lackluster dps. Armor types are low competition and tier tokens are decently balanced. Curious to hear your thoughts on the comp and 10 man strict as a concept/challenge/bonus raid. Raid comp sheet: tinyurl.com/yrk3rh7d
Hello thx for the video really love it! I just have a question isnt it holy paladin and discipline priest mainly mono healing? isnt it better to have priest cham and discipline or drood heal and disci together?
Hi Rugs! Been engrossed going through your video history and catching up on knowledge getting ready for Wrath! Video idea if there is any meat on these bones for you, you mentioned in here how valuable Spriest is for soaking in one specific fight, are there fights in 10 or 25 man where you want that one specific role to achieve something which no other class can? For example in Classic TBC VR we have the entire raid stack and hunter(s) running around the outside, or on High King we have an oomkin tanking Kiggler because they are immune to polymorph etc etc? Essentially when you go to choose your character for Wrath, when can we see it shine like no other?
Do you think 2 prot pallies would be a good combo? I know a lot of comps run Pally/DK but I’m asking cause I think we will have 2 prot pallies wanting to tank in WotLK so I was trying to figure it out.
I think this works out well. We use to do this in vanilla wotlk. We would pop wings use cd w'e, next would taunt with wings and then have cd's ready again. We where one of the first few guilds to do ICC 10 man heroic. We even had a ret so we where extremely pally heavy.
First of all love the content, I have a question not verry related to the video but, I would verry much like to know what the best professions are on a prot paladin? Keep making this great content!
1. JC no doubt 100% 2. I’d recommend engineering personally, but if you just want more stamina then you can go mining, LW, or enchanting and you’ll be happy
it's not much different tbh. If you have a bear as your main tank for 10mans and you want to be extra greedy you can try to avoid bringing rogues/cats so you can ensure you get all the leather loot that you want. At least the good thing about being a bear MT in a 10man is that you can pass on all plate tank gear to your offtank while they're DPSing for the vast majority of content. But yeah there's not much inherently different about bringing one tank over another for a raid comp perspective
I get that clearly there are some classes that are straight up the best, but like, everyone forgets that especially in a speedrun setting where seconds matter just how ridiculous the dps is on a protection warrior. they have their downsides, mostly being really squishy, but thats nothing a holy paladin cant make up for. not to mention healing a prot warrior is just so much more fun because your buttons will be pressing. you could even have an arms warrior as your off tank on fights like patchwerk when a frost dk isnt available and theyre bringing that extra physical dmg debuff. then once you get into ulduar and fury starts scaling into stat padding levels even from a 10 man only standpoint you still bring 1 buff noone else brings by just giving your main tank a large amount of raw hp. i get it everyone hates warriors but never discount them. They will be better than you think, not saying theyre gonna be as stupidly stong as they were in tbc but really stop the hate, your brown boys are going to need gear so when icc opens up and they start doing 50% more dmg than every other class in the game they wont be sitting in pre raid gear knowing youre gonna have to funnel them because of the neglect.
You say "Assassination's rogue brings nothing" they bring 3% crit to anything they have poisoned for all attacks look up Master poisoner. Just trying to give you some information not bashing or anything
I'm loving the content Rugs. This is exactly what I was looking for. My group of friends has sat out TBC and we're looking at coming back to Wrath for a 10-man "strict" setup. That is, doing all of Wrath (T7 to T10) as a 10man with a fairly set comp. I'd love to see a video from you on loot distribution to such a group in wrath. Which classes/roles should get high-competition gear first? What loot system makes for the least drama without hampering progression? What to do about Pugs? etc.
Tanks always get prio on loot... then healers i would say and then distribute loot depending on dps due to some classes dps higher on certain tiers but overall 10m runs you will gear up fast
I clicked this video thinking, "who needs this right now??" but the explanation at the beginning really made a lot of sense
no apology necessary in the intro, i specifically searched this and here it is!
I'm going through all your videos getting ready for Wrath. Loving the content! It's interesting how different the class priorities are now. My raiding guild when wrath originally released had 4 hunters and 5 dps warriors in naxx 25.
With your "balanced" comp, you are not able to have both melee and spell haste unless your unholy goes Frost DK, and I think that is more valuable than the buff to diseases (which only adds a touch of damage for your Shadow Priest). The reason is only Shaman can bring the spell haste buff, but it takes up the same slot (air) that imp Windfury totem would use. That spell haste buff is pretty huge, since it applies to all of the caster DPS and healers. Note that this is a different buff than the haste % buff from Ret or Balance and stacks with this buff.
Also, instead of the Assassination Rogue you could instead bring a Ret Paladin. They cover the Critical Strike buff that Assassination or Elemental would otherwise provide, plus they have the 3% damage buff if your mage is not Arcane. This would also allow you to cover all of the Paladin buffs (Kings/Might/Sanc), have another Aura Mastery which is useful on certain fights, on top of the fact that he could have a Divine Sacrifice/Divine Guardian off spec for cheesing out certain fights since you already have tanks covered. Another small thing is if your DK isn't Frost that also provides the melee attack speed debuff.
At the very least, if he switches to Combat, that would provide the physical vulnerability debuff which you otherwise would not have. The one big benefit of the Rogue is ToT, but if you are rocking a Pally and DK tank then you would have to ask yourself if you really need it since they are the best tanks for threat. Another option would be Feral for the melee crit buff.
All great points and nothing that I disagree with for sure. Of course you can always optimize these comps and I admit in the video that bringing an assassination rogue brings pretty much nothing to your comp. Most of what you said is accurate.
What I like about how my iteration of the comp works is I'm not bringing a FDK, Combat Rogue, and Enhance all to the same raid (like you had suggested). If we did that, all 3 of them would be competing for the same weapon drops a lot of the time. This current comp makes sure these melee get all the weps that they want since it's not like 10man needs to be optimized much further. You want to optimize for a strong raid, but also dont want to waste/miss out on loot ya know
this was really nice! i personally hope to get a nice 10 man group of friends to do all the content. Especially liked the talking about chosing classes to improve item distribution and not wasting loot.
Really interesting content, been chain watching your wotlk videos put out this month.
Back several years ago some friends and I played on Gamer District and we didn't have enough to do a 25 man (we are NA), so to spice things up we did 10 man strict progressive starting at T7. No 25 man gear at all. We did all content but didn't try Yogg 0 as we thought our comp just couldn't handle it. I believe this is the hardest fight in 10 man WotLK, actually, not HLK and Algalon isn't even that bad. Our comp was pretty well balanced, but not perfect.
10 Strict brings a lot of interesting challenges since most of the OP gear is from 25 mans. You end up with situations like elemental shaman endgame bis is a gunship trinket (264) and the 5 man ToC haste trinket (200), because you just don't have gear options. The server we were playing on had HLK hardcoded to 10% buff, making this even more challenging, but we did eventually kill him after a couple months of gearing and practice, 11 seconds before enrage!
Using that experience I've put together a 10 man strict comp that we'll be running in WotLK classic as a bonus raid, apart from our main 25 mans/10 mans. It features the skeleton you use here in the balanced comp, prot pally/blood tanks and pally/disc heals, but the fill is a bit different. Replenishment is hard to get, and certainly required on many fights. Destruction loses the least, IMO between warlock and hunter. Shadow priest is hard to fit. Arcane still does very good damage and that 3% dps buff is worth not being fire. Also your gear will not be nearly as good, so fire's scaling won't be as strong. Elemental's utility is just huge despite the lackluster dps. Armor types are low competition and tier tokens are decently balanced.
Curious to hear your thoughts on the comp and 10 man strict as a concept/challenge/bonus raid.
Raid comp sheet: tinyurl.com/yrk3rh7d
i remember 3 drakes was a tough 10 man challenge, than again, everything seemed harder back than lol.
Hello thx for the video really love it! I just have a question isnt it holy paladin and discipline priest mainly mono healing? isnt it better to have priest cham and discipline or drood heal and disci together?
5 members rolling on the same tier set seems painful
Hi Rugs! Been engrossed going through your video history and catching up on knowledge getting ready for Wrath!
Video idea if there is any meat on these bones for you, you mentioned in here how valuable Spriest is for soaking in one specific fight, are there fights in 10 or 25 man where you want that one specific role to achieve something which no other class can? For example in Classic TBC VR we have the entire raid stack and hunter(s) running around the outside, or on High King we have an oomkin tanking Kiggler because they are immune to polymorph etc etc? Essentially when you go to choose your character for Wrath, when can we see it shine like no other?
Love the content man. Keep it up!
Thank you. That's just what I want to do in classic Wrath. Just take 9 of my unskilled friends and carry them while having fun.
Great content dude!
I really dont like classic, but i love the pserver community, so this is great info either way :)
Keep em coming!
I love the content! awesome man!
Do you have a link to this spreadsheet anywhere?
Do you think 2 prot pallies would be a good combo? I know a lot of comps run Pally/DK but I’m asking cause I think we will have 2 prot pallies wanting to tank in WotLK so I was trying to figure it out.
I think this works out well. We use to do this in vanilla wotlk. We would pop wings use cd w'e, next would taunt with wings and then have cd's ready again. We where one of the first few guilds to do ICC 10 man heroic. We even had a ret so we where extremely pally heavy.
hey man can u do a feral dps guide for wrath , love your vids ty
Yes Man! This!!!!!
I'm assuming any slot with a rogue you can slot in fury/arms and be ok? Or would you change up the whole comp for warrior deeps?
i didnt understand why sv hunter instead mm hunter
Digging the content for Wrath. Subbed! Any chance you can share the comp google docs you've been using?
www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/7sy5s4/wotlk_raid_composition_tool/?
First of all love the content, I have a question not verry related to the video but, I would verry much like to know what the best professions are on a prot paladin?
Keep making this great content!
1. JC no doubt 100%
2. I’d recommend engineering personally, but if you just want more stamina then you can go mining, LW, or enchanting and you’ll be happy
Oh or blacksmith. Same thing
@@Rugsz cheers mate!
Nice video , but where is the Dual wield Unholy dk in this ? Kekw
this dw unholy stuff needs to relax
@@Rugsz fr fr , but interesting indeed
I want that 2h frost so lifestyle
Yo. Can’t have 5 sharing tokens (2 priest 2 pala 1 lock) any way to drop lock? Seems we can’t drop any other
Maybe a comp with every tank possible, whats the best comp with a feral Bear for example. Ty for the vid, very good content :)
it's not much different tbh. If you have a bear as your main tank for 10mans and you want to be extra greedy you can try to avoid bringing rogues/cats so you can ensure you get all the leather loot that you want.
At least the good thing about being a bear MT in a 10man is that you can pass on all plate tank gear to your offtank while they're DPSing for the vast majority of content.
But yeah there's not much inherently different about bringing one tank over another for a raid comp perspective
I get that clearly there are some classes that are straight up the best, but like, everyone forgets that especially in a speedrun setting where seconds matter just how ridiculous the dps is on a protection warrior. they have their downsides, mostly being really squishy, but thats nothing a holy paladin cant make up for. not to mention healing a prot warrior is just so much more fun because your buttons will be pressing. you could even have an arms warrior as your off tank on fights like patchwerk when a frost dk isnt available and theyre bringing that extra physical dmg debuff. then once you get into ulduar and fury starts scaling into stat padding levels even from a 10 man only standpoint you still bring 1 buff noone else brings by just giving your main tank a large amount of raw hp. i get it everyone hates warriors but never discount them. They will be better than you think, not saying theyre gonna be as stupidly stong as they were in tbc but really stop the hate, your brown boys are going to need gear so when icc opens up and they start doing 50% more dmg than every other class in the game they wont be sitting in pre raid gear knowing youre gonna have to funnel them because of the neglect.
Any tank should have a dps off spec so should apply to dps with having off spec tanking or healing
Don't assassination rogues bring 3% crit debuff?
People making 10m guilds will be frustrated in t7, it is not even a slight challenge. There is no reason not to go to 25m and scoop up that gear
How many fights are 1-tankable?
A LOT
whats about warris ? ^^
If you want views, start making videos covering the how tos of naxx, hard mode ulduar, exc. great vid.
No love for warriors haha.
You say "Assassination's rogue brings nothing" they bring 3% crit to anything they have poisoned for all attacks look up Master poisoner. Just trying to give you some information not bashing or anything
you hate warriors lmao
I do indeed
yeah warriors suck lol