Classic is better if you like random interactions and a more overall social game, retail is better if you prefer more interactive, fast and flashy gameplay. Neither is perfect and neither is bad, just different flavors of ice cream. I enjoy both for different reasons but I definetely prefer retail.
doing your rotation in retail wow is like having 10 wheels on a bicycle, it adds complexity for nothing, you can achieve the same thing with just 2 wheels.
I call bullshit on the Classic one, they are way more toxic than Retail. Basically chasing clout all the worst parts of Retail immigrated over to Classic instead, which between being called slurs for not playing "their" way and the lack of QoL it is wholy unappealing.
I prefer retail because retail is new. I played "classic" before it was called that. I started in 2006. The game was still relatively brand new. I have a lot of very, very good memories of my time in vanilla, BC, and Wrath. I remember my first time spawning into the Valley of Trials as a troll hunter. I remember killing my first boar. I remember my first profession, making some rough dynamite in Razor Hill, then going to throw it at the first quillboar I could find. I remember my first time stepping foot into RFC. My first green. My first time seeing someone on a mount. My first time joining a guild. My first time in ventrillo talking to other people online. My first time in Molten Core. I could list a thousand firsts I remember over the years. They're all very fond memories that will bring a smile to my face until the day I die. However, I also understand that they're just that. Memories. They're gone. I will never experience any of that ever again for the first time. Classic will never give me new memories. It can't. Retail can, however, and it continues to do so almost daily. I also remember all of the bad stuff about Classic. 5 minute corpse runs. Every humanoid mob immediately running into other mobs and aggroing them whenever you almost kill one, making just going into a cave an hour long ordeal. Having to buy gold from a Chinese farmer for my slow mount and epic mount because it was literally impossible to make gold organically unless you were an endgame raider and had access to endgame mats and drops. Spending an hour just finding a group for an instance, then another hour getting to the entrance and waiting for everyone else to get there, then another 2 hours carefully clearing it, because if you wiped it would have been so long since you started that all the trash in the beginning would have respawned and most people would get so annoyed they just quit and you would have to start the entire process over again. I could write an entire thesis paper here but you get the point. I'm a different person and a different type of player now. Classic doesn't have what I want, it doesn't even have what it had back then. I'm 100% convinced that modern day classic players and classic defenders never actually played back in 2005-2012, they're all tourists and people buying into the hype and trying it out.
Lovecraftian body horror, stoic masculine heroes, smart/sexy/sassy women, and villains who are arrogant but justify that arrogance with power and real competence. WOW is best when it is cheesy archetypes, big cinematics, campy edgelords, dark vs light, and Lovecraft. It needs to get back to that.
Nostalgia got me excited for Classic and the old world that was lost after Cata released. Logging in and the hype was instant gone - min-max speed runners, booster overtaking, bots. Sure they have been around since 2004 but not in such an extend. Try to team up for a difficult quest? No hello, no interaction whatsoever. People want to get max lvl fast to get into raiding. Classic is just Retail player thrown into an old setting. The magic is gone and no matter how many times they re-release Classic again it won't ever be the same for me.
Dude this is so true. I missed the 2019 release and was so excited to experience the magic of Classic. It was so hyped up to be this great thing. But the social interactions so far have been straight ass (PvE server). No one randomly buffs on roads, no one wants to group for quests, people camp escort quests and steal them while declining invites to group. Dungeons are hit or miss. Might just wait a while for the crowd to thin and for all the retail-oriented players to get ahead bc this blows.
I love the vibe of classic before everyone fell into the boost meta of leveling. It’s hyper min/maxed and I was guilty of it too. I love the gameplay of retail. the mechanics, challenge and collectibles are fantastic. So, Until an actual Classic Plus I am leaned into retail and playing the Ashes alpha when I miss the old timey MMO feel.
People love to merge the idea of vanilla with classic. I have played since 2004 and remember how it was. You can NEVER recreate what it was like back then when original WoW was new. It's a completely different experience with Classic-and all for the worse. There's no challenge now, people are miles more elitist than they were back then and the community is the highest level of toxic imaginable, too. Vanilla was great because of the time it existed-we didn't have thousands of people online talking about every single little thing and giving players reasons to kick others who just want to go to a group and have fun or experience new content. We have Thotbot instead of Wowhead. Hours long dungeons existed because of how it was back then. You can't ever get that back, and those who adorn Classic will never admit that.
I played classic for the first time after playing DF as my first expantion and enjoyed it much more. Came back for TWW and got burned out/bored pushing Keys and raiding mythic. Now I play turtle WoW and its the best version of wow I have played so far.
@ And that’s completely fine. Classic is a whole different thing on its own. Many players like myself just won’t go back. I’ve played vanilla and classic is just a simulated experience for me with a lot of negative things added. Now those negative things are also a symptom issues with TWW. But you can’t change what the community has turned into. I like a challenge so I stick to TWW
Exactly how I feel. I want new characters to look up to for each class / spec. I always played shaman since I started playing late wrath, Thrall was the character I looked up to, because he was THE shaman, I even had the honor to wield his shaman weapon, he then retired. But he is still here, like an old man trying to stay hip and be relevant even when his time is way over due. For Thrall specificly I wish he had died in BFA, there was even a chance, Sylvanas send assassin's after him in Nagrand (I think he retired there) but Saurfang came first and he survived, I wish the opposite had happen, that he came too late, our beloved character wouldn't have been dragged for so long (he already had too much time at that point) but it could also have made the vengeance towards Sylvanas stronger earlier on, but again BFA is a text book example of how you can miss so many opportunities. A good example of this done right is Vol'jin, I was quiet sad seeing him die, but looking bad, rather that than what happen to Trall.
Personally, my biggest gripes with retail is the new player/low level experience is absolute garbage compared to Classic and the story after Legion makes no fucking sense. After the whole Legion debacle why in the heck would the Horde and Alliance still be fighting?
Story never made sense so I don't get this point. Even in classic this was so basic. Also about low level experience : this is only important for new players, which I understand. But after 20 years, do you want that?
@alihorda if the low level experience is dog shit, I won't want to level new classes and end up getting bored of the endgame stuck with a two or three classes. The health of the game would overall improve if the leveling was either completely removed or reworked, as it is I can't be bothered to play retail because I don't want to play my main class or level others.
no reason to be fighting now but plenty of storytelling options...midnight with zone revamp could damage surface so much that a faction fight over scarce resources would be inevitable (even if we eventually defeat void invasion)...simple, real life, understandable reasons are always solid options
I can't play classic anymore.. I waited on the servers, reserved my names, jumped in game, killed some quilboars and logged off... I was excited at the thought of going again but was instantly bored and the thought of the slog just made me uninstall.
I tried jumping on Classic for the fresh servers and my client would crash every single time I tried to loot literally anything so I just went back to Final Fantasy.
That's what I don't like about big franchises big companies behind them that they become lazy and try to formulated the things that are working instead of trying to innovate and do things that are out of the box.
The biggest reason why I will never touch Retail is because the devs literally thought putting a green mechanic indicator on top of a green arena was a good idea. I'll just go back to FFXIV if I want to play a modern MMO. Classic WoW exists to scrath that nostalgia itch I get occasionally.
Shadowlands didn't make sense to me until I read the book Sylvanas by Christie Golden. It actually explains every expansion and the lore going back to Warcraft III in a pretty neat and colourful way. It's only about 400 pages mate, take you a weekend. Decisions she made in WoTLK weren't explained until later in BFA and concluded in Shadowlands. - and by then everyone had lost track or become so uninterested it didn't make sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is Blizzard creates great stories but they're a side quest to the main game of weeklys, mythic, AOTC, bis collecting, guild drama, mechanics, nurf/buff lists etc etc etc
On a side note, once you read the lore books (such as Archive) then WoW takes on 10x the level of detail you had no idea existed. There's little "easter eggs" put throughout every zone that reference stuff from the books and other tadbits of info that'll have you googling and digging thru lore databases to figure out. Try it!
One of the main reasons I love Cataclysm was not just the advancement in progress of gameplay and class feel. But mainly in part due to reading The Shattering. Christie Golden is hands down my favourite Warcraft writer.
I'll give credit where it's due, I've heard good things about the books, but I shouldn't have to go outside the game to get enjoyment out of the lore. Seems just like filling plot holes with text because they cant do it in a visual medium at a certain point
No, the novel explains exactly nothing. Goldens book kill the FOrasken and that's it. It's really terrible, all of it, the novel, the story, the expansion. It's trash.
Retail is just boring. Simple. Back in Vanilla, EVERYTHING was unique. Food and water, mattered, classes were actually unique. In retail every class has a stun, CC, speed boost, everything
If you solely define the game based on the differences between character classes, then you kind of, sort of, maybe have a half of a point. That being said, each class still has a unique aspect to bring to the table and performs in a unique way. Your APM just may be too low for you to tell the difference between the classes. If you think retail is boring, it's because you're bad at the game and can't actually do things like push keys, get immersed in the decades worth of solo content, are bad at delves, have literally no friends to raid with and are living in a world where you think everything you perceive reflects the way things really are. The caveat to everything being "unique" is that some things are ultimately bad and unplayable. You can't play feral druid in vanilla. You can't (really) main tank raids on a paladin or druid in vanilla. You can't DPS as a shadow priest in vanilla (not without extreme amounts of help like a literal team of druids spamming innervate on you in raids). Discipline is laughably underpowered, too. You don't have variable difficulty rates in vanilla (no keys, no scaling content). You don't have all the side things that are evergreen QOL improvements in vanilla. You don't have a functional auction house in vanilla. Botting is worse in vanilla than it is in retail. Talent trees in vanilla are a horrifying mess. To me, vanilla and classic and even SoD are boring, but to each their own.
i got to 50 on the fresh realm nightslayer. had some time off and wanted to give it a try. the community absolutely sucks and its broken down to a science. im done already. gave some 60 all my gold and bags and deleted the rest. retail is just prime.
I think people are focusing to much on is it fun is it boring which matters but for me its about the adventure classic is slow and not that hard but it takes some learning in retail im 80 in 2 days and dont have to watch mana as healer just spam and hope you are geared enough on classic undergeared you could pull off strats and more incentives to do it retail seems like a dungeon simulator which is why i play warframe but the combat dont slap enough to spend 40 hrs doing mythics and raids feel so disconnected with the queue
I'm a retail player and been having a lot of fun watching people play Classic. I can't say I enjoy it myself. I don't usually like spending a lot of time leveling these days and much prefer endgame content. I've been put-off games like FF14 for the same reason. I also get get that people that prefer Classic are looking for something that mainline WoW doesn't really provide much of now, or at least provides well. I've largely given up on the game's narrative myself and largely focus on endgame content which I find significantly more enjoyable especially since I play with friends. What I am tired of is I'll periodically see people that I enjoy watching for their Classic content suddenly turning around and talking like current WoW has nothing good to offer when I and many others like me are here having a great old time. Why is that necessary? Yeah, it isn't a journey, it may not be as immersive or require as much spiritual commitment to anything besides endgame content, but it's fun for myself and those I play with, and I thought that was the whole damn point?
Look classic is fun, its cool to see the game as it was back then and experience it as it was especially for people who didn't play back then like myself. However, the idea that classic is even remotely difficult in any way is hilarious. The hardest content in classic is barely m0/normal raid equivalent with absolutely braindead rotations. its a 1-2 simulator. Its a really fun and immersive world, but at the end of the day the people who orange/pink parse in classic and think they're hot shit and that retail is for babies is almost always a 45 year old dad who can't move past his glory days in middle school.
People optimize the fun out of games. It even happens in retail and literally every game. People don't play games for a lot of fun for the actual play of the game, itself. There is only "fun" for the optimization of the game. People lock others out of having fun.
for me, classic feels like an mmorpg experience, retail feels like a job, too much things to do in so little time, so many things happening in the screen and always with random people without a single word in chat, feels boring.
I love both, but what's the end game with Classic? Blizzard still doesn't understand why people love Classic, that is why MoP is coming out. I don't know anyone who has been dying to play Mist Classic. Do they just plan to release all the old expansions till they get caught back up? In 5 years are we going to get Dragonflight Classic? That's why I laugh at Classic andies cause they don't think about this. Playing vanilla is great, but re-releasing every expansion is just going to make classic like retail eventually. Playing Mist in retail is probably easier and more covenant than playing through it in Classic as well.
When i played 2019 classic i made an u dead mage then started boosting people for gold always had 4 ppl paying. So yeah the whole leveling experience was skipped by buying gold and paying for boosts. GDKP also ment you didnt need to make any friends hust swipe that credit card. Classic wow is just a very slow very easy game. One class out performs the others by far(warrior).
I think WoW in general has gotten bad and find it isn't so much the game itself but more the new much younger people playing. This whole basement dwelling over amped up edgelords running around thinking that being a jerk is somehow cool and edgy. Yes I know we had trolls before but these guys are just a different breed of idiotic. We used to call them Cata babies back in the day but Cata is so old now that its whatever expac they came from after the golden age. Its a degree of toxicity that is just unnecessary in an MMO, its just too bad some people feel the need to be this way. Back in the day when you where stuck on a realm and there was NO auto cross realm looking for group there where consequences for having a crappy reputation. Thus it kept certain bad behaviors in check up to a certain point....
Ret was insane in PvP, because of extreme RNG. you could get a string of crits and be the most op thing in existence, or not and just be massaging someone's back. But that also does nothing, for Pver's. All that SoD did was fix the class to the Fantasy that people have in their minds of classic paladin. No one, absolutely No one looks at paladin and goes buff bot. mmm I like that. If you know the Lore, if you have played Dungeons and Dragons. you Know paladins are the holy knights that carry a big ass weapon, layeth the smacketh down, or tank, with some tacked on healing, and stand in the front line. No one looks at Paladin and goes healer, yumm. If you do, you liked Cleric in DnD, and they should of made a cleric class for the game. If you think of Paladin as anything other than prot and/or Retribution. I'd ask that someone close to you slap you in the face, and then play the Michael Jordan clip for you. 'STop it, get some help."
As for the Story of TWW i have to say i disagree with you for about 90 percent of what you said. I think Valeria is an nice change of pace, she wasn't used all that much in Legion. So i've liked what i've seen so far. She has changed, and yet still has to grow. I Think Bryn is a nice introduction to the Earthen, and her story line in the Ringing Deeps was good. Khadgar suffers form Superman Syndrome. If you have a character that can answer anyting your enemies throw at him, then that doesn't make for a compelling story. So they took him out to let Valeria shine. They injured him so he can council, but still can't go all out. Faerin Lothar is an Amazing character, I don't how/why you've over looked her. The haronir, I find very intriguing and am waiting for the Rootlands. I think Andiun is finally coming into his own and out of his shell thanks to help from Faerin. So that is positioning him to take back his throne. Magni has been through alot. They have taken alot of these older established characters and positioned at the forefront, and then taken them back and set them to the side to allow for these new characters to have a chance to shine. Problem with WoW's story, is they don't want to go the way of SWTOR, where YOU the Player Character are the centerpoint of the story. So we live slightly vicariously through the NPCs' they decide to use.
I think both are fun in their own way the fans of either one shouldnt bash the other game. IMO classic is more immersive and has better progression feel but retail has better gameplay and instance content.
Classic is a deeply flawed game and is why the #nochanges crap always annoyed me. Newflash, if you cant play a spec because it is not viable... then its broken and needs fixing. Fingers crossed for a future classic+ which will take some of the things learnt from SoD to make every spec viable, among adding more to the game.
I personally just don’t care about Classic. It’s like a museum exhibit to admire on occasion but the actual gameplay and lack of any meaningful content doesn’t appeal to me.
@ Interesting that you think retail doesn’t have any meaningful content. This expansion has had a lot of decently fun stuff to do and 11.1 is looking pretty big as well. I get the nostalgia people have for Classic but the game simply isn’t fun to play.
@@ShawnSetGO Depends on the person really, I like classic leveling, I think classic raiding is pointless, but equally I think retail is more fun to push M+ score, see how far I can get my gear in a season, and spending time with many of my friends that refuse to play classic because they hate leveling and think 40 man raiding is shit for the amount of loot you get, but the leveling is dogshit and the story is meh, not like either classic or retail really have story to begin with anyway at this point. So from my perspective Retail's endgame is more meaningful to me than trying to fight 30+ people for a chance at loot compared to like 9, but Classic WoW's leveling is more meaningful because it actually takes a little bit to level and learn your character.
It’s not 2004. That’s the biggest gripe for me. This alone spreads into different areas of why I just dislike Classic. It’s slow. It’s arduous. It’s boring. I love the villains, however. I will forever love the big two - Arthas and Illidan. Classic has been spreadsheet to death. You can’t recapture the past. It is not the same. The majority of players are nostalgia seekers. I was there, I did it 20 years ago. I don’t need to go back, I’m not the same person nor the same type of player. I want to go fast. I have things to do. I don’t need to walk to Wailing Caverns as Alliance. I don’t need to adventure my way to RFK or RFD. Been there, done that. I will take all the advancements and speed of retail any day over classic.
I would love the progression and philosophy of classic combined with class and boss mechanics of Modern WoW. Yes retail has much better class and boss design, sometimes a bit too complex that the game must have addons to work, but it's manageable imo. But I love the progress and sense of adventure that comes with classic, peoples attitudes are much different on classic because how you behave MATTERS unlike the toxicity of retail WoW where everyone just behaves like a huge F-ing snob that is having their time wasted by others. Each have their pros and cons and I reckon if someone put in the effort you could combine the two for an amazing experience. I wouldn't say most people who play classic are just nostalgia seekers. I think it's better displayed as Retail WoW probably attracts those that prefer the destination while classic is those who prefer the journey.
Because classic weirdos are all over the internet being toxic pretending they are the real wow fans and they play the real game. Its tiresome. Its very interesting the way classic people cant just talk about why they love classic. They have to snipe at the current expansion. Heck the fact that you guys call it retail alone is weird. Classic is just as much retail as anything else. Its the taking of private server lingo and subverting it for your circle jerk.
@@shadowsteppah It's retail because it's the current expansion. Classic is classic, it's not the regular game. Retail just means it's the current expansion, the 1 you actually buy when you buy the game itself and not a subset of something else. Classic is not retail, it's an older version of the game. If anything classic is more like a private server than anything else and should just be considered blizzards version of a private server.
@ being harder doesn’t make it a better or worse game tbh. But you are correct. Retails raids are better and they have arena. That’s pretty much it imo.
Classic is better if you like random interactions and a more overall social game, retail is better if you prefer more interactive, fast and flashy gameplay.
Neither is perfect and neither is bad, just different flavors of ice cream.
I enjoy both for different reasons but I definetely prefer retail.
doing your rotation in retail wow is like having 10 wheels on a bicycle, it adds complexity for nothing, you can achieve the same thing with just 2 wheels.
If only all gamers can think like you.
Mad respect man 🙏🏻
I call bullshit on the Classic one, they are way more toxic than Retail. Basically chasing clout all the worst parts of Retail immigrated over to Classic instead, which between being called slurs for not playing "their" way and the lack of QoL it is wholy unappealing.
I prefer retail because retail is new. I played "classic" before it was called that. I started in 2006. The game was still relatively brand new. I have a lot of very, very good memories of my time in vanilla, BC, and Wrath. I remember my first time spawning into the Valley of Trials as a troll hunter. I remember killing my first boar. I remember my first profession, making some rough dynamite in Razor Hill, then going to throw it at the first quillboar I could find. I remember my first time stepping foot into RFC. My first green. My first time seeing someone on a mount. My first time joining a guild. My first time in ventrillo talking to other people online. My first time in Molten Core. I could list a thousand firsts I remember over the years. They're all very fond memories that will bring a smile to my face until the day I die.
However, I also understand that they're just that. Memories. They're gone. I will never experience any of that ever again for the first time. Classic will never give me new memories. It can't. Retail can, however, and it continues to do so almost daily.
I also remember all of the bad stuff about Classic. 5 minute corpse runs. Every humanoid mob immediately running into other mobs and aggroing them whenever you almost kill one, making just going into a cave an hour long ordeal. Having to buy gold from a Chinese farmer for my slow mount and epic mount because it was literally impossible to make gold organically unless you were an endgame raider and had access to endgame mats and drops. Spending an hour just finding a group for an instance, then another hour getting to the entrance and waiting for everyone else to get there, then another 2 hours carefully clearing it, because if you wiped it would have been so long since you started that all the trash in the beginning would have respawned and most people would get so annoyed they just quit and you would have to start the entire process over again. I could write an entire thesis paper here but you get the point.
I'm a different person and a different type of player now. Classic doesn't have what I want, it doesn't even have what it had back then. I'm 100% convinced that modern day classic players and classic defenders never actually played back in 2005-2012, they're all tourists and people buying into the hype and trying it out.
Lovecraftian body horror, stoic masculine heroes, smart/sexy/sassy women, and villains who are arrogant but justify that arrogance with power and real competence.
WOW is best when it is cheesy archetypes, big cinematics, campy edgelords, dark vs light, and Lovecraft. It needs to get back to that.
It's on that course now. Back to azeroth, back to old school villain archetype
Nostalgia got me excited for Classic and the old world that was lost after Cata released. Logging in and the hype was instant gone - min-max speed runners, booster overtaking, bots. Sure they have been around since 2004 but not in such an extend. Try to team up for a difficult quest? No hello, no interaction whatsoever. People want to get max lvl fast to get into raiding. Classic is just Retail player thrown into an old setting. The magic is gone and no matter how many times they re-release Classic again it won't ever be the same for me.
Dude this is so true. I missed the 2019 release and was so excited to experience the magic of Classic. It was so hyped up to be this great thing. But the social interactions so far have been straight ass (PvE server). No one randomly buffs on roads, no one wants to group for quests, people camp escort quests and steal them while declining invites to group. Dungeons are hit or miss. Might just wait a while for the crowd to thin and for all the retail-oriented players to get ahead bc this blows.
I love the vibe of classic before everyone fell into the boost meta of leveling. It’s hyper min/maxed and I was guilty of it too.
I love the gameplay of retail. the mechanics, challenge and collectibles are fantastic.
So, Until an actual Classic Plus I am leaned into retail and playing the Ashes alpha when I miss the old timey MMO feel.
Yeah but SM runs were insanely fun, but I get what you mean
People love to merge the idea of vanilla with classic. I have played since 2004 and remember how it was. You can NEVER recreate what it was like back then when original WoW was new. It's a completely different experience with Classic-and all for the worse. There's no challenge now, people are miles more elitist than they were back then and the community is the highest level of toxic imaginable, too.
Vanilla was great because of the time it existed-we didn't have thousands of people online talking about every single little thing and giving players reasons to kick others who just want to go to a group and have fun or experience new content. We have Thotbot instead of Wowhead. Hours long dungeons existed because of how it was back then. You can't ever get that back, and those who adorn Classic will never admit that.
Thotbot was awesome
I played classic for the first time after playing DF as my first expantion and enjoyed it much more. Came back for TWW and got burned out/bored pushing Keys and raiding mythic.
Now I play turtle WoW and its the best version of wow I have played so far.
@ And that’s completely fine. Classic is a whole different thing on its own. Many players like myself just won’t go back. I’ve played vanilla and classic is just a simulated experience for me with a lot of negative things added. Now those negative things are also a symptom issues with TWW. But you can’t change what the community has turned into. I like a challenge so I stick to TWW
Imagine Sylvannas emerging from the shadows in the expansion Midnight. The collective groan from the playerbase would be audible.
Exactly how I feel. I want new characters to look up to for each class / spec.
I always played shaman since I started playing late wrath, Thrall was the character I looked up to, because he was THE shaman, I even had the honor to wield his shaman weapon, he then retired.
But he is still here, like an old man trying to stay hip and be relevant even when his time is way over due. For Thrall specificly I wish he had died in BFA, there was even a chance, Sylvanas send assassin's after him in Nagrand (I think he retired there) but Saurfang came first and he survived, I wish the opposite had happen, that he came too late, our beloved character wouldn't have been dragged for so long (he already had too much time at that point) but it could also have made the vengeance towards Sylvanas stronger earlier on, but again BFA is a text book example of how you can miss so many opportunities.
A good example of this done right is Vol'jin, I was quiet sad seeing him die, but looking bad, rather that than what happen to Trall.
I can't stand what they did do our daddy shaman he is exactly why I picked shaman main
Personally, my biggest gripes with retail is the new player/low level experience is absolute garbage compared to Classic and the story after Legion makes no fucking sense. After the whole Legion debacle why in the heck would the Horde and Alliance still be fighting?
Story never made sense so I don't get this point. Even in classic this was so basic. Also about low level experience : this is only important for new players, which I understand. But after 20 years, do you want that?
@alihorda if the low level experience is dog shit, I won't want to level new classes and end up getting bored of the endgame stuck with a two or three classes. The health of the game would overall improve if the leveling was either completely removed or reworked, as it is I can't be bothered to play retail because I don't want to play my main class or level others.
Many a expansion I've asked exactly that and it usually makes it feel like they watered down the factions
@trawll8659 thing is, you can level quickly so doesn't matter
no reason to be fighting now but plenty of storytelling options...midnight with zone revamp could damage surface so much that a faction fight over scarce resources would be inevitable (even if we eventually defeat void invasion)...simple, real life, understandable reasons are always solid options
You can't use a story that was told in a book to justify bad writing in the game.
I can't play classic anymore..
I waited on the servers, reserved my names, jumped in game, killed some quilboars and logged off... I was excited at the thought of going again but was instantly bored and the thought of the slog just made me uninstall.
I tried jumping on Classic for the fresh servers and my client would crash every single time I tried to loot literally anything so I just went back to Final Fantasy.
I take it you're not wizzed up on simple troubleshooting :P but games works fine for me no issues at all.
Every point made I feel the same way to retail WoW
That's what I don't like about big franchises big companies behind them that they become lazy and try to formulated the things that are working instead of trying to innovate and do things that are out of the box.
The biggest reason why I will never touch Retail is because the devs literally thought putting a green mechanic indicator on top of a green arena was a good idea. I'll just go back to FFXIV if I want to play a modern MMO. Classic WoW exists to scrath that nostalgia itch I get occasionally.
Shadowlands didn't make sense to me until I read the book Sylvanas by Christie Golden. It actually explains every expansion and the lore going back to Warcraft III in a pretty neat and colourful way. It's only about 400 pages mate, take you a weekend. Decisions she made in WoTLK weren't explained until later in BFA and concluded in Shadowlands. - and by then everyone had lost track or become so uninterested it didn't make sense.
I guess what I'm trying to say is Blizzard creates great stories but they're a side quest to the main game of weeklys, mythic, AOTC, bis collecting, guild drama, mechanics, nurf/buff lists etc etc etc
On a side note, once you read the lore books (such as Archive) then WoW takes on 10x the level of detail you had no idea existed. There's little "easter eggs" put throughout every zone that reference stuff from the books and other tadbits of info that'll have you googling and digging thru lore databases to figure out.
Try it!
One of the main reasons I love Cataclysm was not just the advancement in progress of gameplay and class feel. But mainly in part due to reading The Shattering. Christie Golden is hands down my favourite Warcraft writer.
I'll give credit where it's due, I've heard good things about the books, but I shouldn't have to go outside the game to get enjoyment out of the lore. Seems just like filling plot holes with text because they cant do it in a visual medium at a certain point
No, the novel explains exactly nothing.
Goldens book kill the FOrasken and that's it. It's really terrible, all of it, the novel, the story, the expansion. It's trash.
The Illidan book is good too friend
I only PvP in retail. I’m still raiding Naxx in era. I just feel like classic respects my time more.
i like the thing were u said people bonded over the level experience and then 80% of the playerbase ended up in boosting session with mages
Bonding through our wallets 😅
Retail is just boring. Simple. Back in Vanilla, EVERYTHING was unique. Food and water, mattered, classes were actually unique.
In retail every class has a stun, CC, speed boost, everything
If you solely define the game based on the differences between character classes, then you kind of, sort of, maybe have a half of a point.
That being said, each class still has a unique aspect to bring to the table and performs in a unique way. Your APM just may be too low for you to tell the difference between the classes.
If you think retail is boring, it's because you're bad at the game and can't actually do things like push keys, get immersed in the decades worth of solo content, are bad at delves, have literally no friends to raid with and are living in a world where you think everything you perceive reflects the way things really are.
The caveat to everything being "unique" is that some things are ultimately bad and unplayable. You can't play feral druid in vanilla. You can't (really) main tank raids on a paladin or druid in vanilla. You can't DPS as a shadow priest in vanilla (not without extreme amounts of help like a literal team of druids spamming innervate on you in raids). Discipline is laughably underpowered, too. You don't have variable difficulty rates in vanilla (no keys, no scaling content). You don't have all the side things that are evergreen QOL improvements in vanilla. You don't have a functional auction house in vanilla. Botting is worse in vanilla than it is in retail. Talent trees in vanilla are a horrifying mess.
To me, vanilla and classic and even SoD are boring, but to each their own.
i got to 50 on the fresh realm nightslayer. had some time off and wanted to give it a try. the community absolutely sucks and its broken down to a science. im done already. gave some 60 all my gold and bags and deleted the rest. retail is just prime.
I think people are focusing to much on is it fun is it boring which matters but for me its about the adventure classic is slow and not that hard but it takes some learning in retail im 80 in 2 days and dont have to watch mana as healer just spam and hope you are geared enough on classic undergeared you could pull off strats and more incentives to do it retail seems like a dungeon simulator which is why i play warframe but the combat dont slap enough to spend 40 hrs doing mythics and raids feel so disconnected with the queue
I'm a retail player and been having a lot of fun watching people play Classic.
I can't say I enjoy it myself. I don't usually like spending a lot of time leveling these days and much prefer endgame content. I've been put-off games like FF14 for the same reason.
I also get get that people that prefer Classic are looking for something that mainline WoW doesn't really provide much of now, or at least provides well. I've largely given up on the game's narrative myself and largely focus on endgame content which I find significantly more enjoyable especially since I play with friends.
What I am tired of is I'll periodically see people that I enjoy watching for their Classic content suddenly turning around and talking like current WoW has nothing good to offer when I and many others like me are here having a great old time. Why is that necessary?
Yeah, it isn't a journey, it may not be as immersive or require as much spiritual commitment to anything besides endgame content, but it's fun for myself and those I play with, and I thought that was the whole damn point?
I love classic. But I just don't want to make a lvl 60 for the 4th time
Look classic is fun, its cool to see the game as it was back then and experience it as it was especially for people who didn't play back then like myself. However, the idea that classic is even remotely difficult in any way is hilarious. The hardest content in classic is barely m0/normal raid equivalent with absolutely braindead rotations. its a 1-2 simulator. Its a really fun and immersive world, but at the end of the day the people who orange/pink parse in classic and think they're hot shit and that retail is for babies is almost always a 45 year old dad who can't move past his glory days in middle school.
People optimize the fun out of games. It even happens in retail and literally every game. People don't play games for a lot of fun for the actual play of the game, itself. There is only "fun" for the optimization of the game. People lock others out of having fun.
I think for those who enjoy it, they like the optimizing of it, but I understand what you mean
for me, classic feels like an mmorpg experience, retail feels like a job, too much things to do in so little time, so many things happening in the screen and always with random people without a single word in chat, feels boring.
well what if i told you classic players are tired or retail?
I love both, but what's the end game with Classic? Blizzard still doesn't understand why people love Classic, that is why MoP is coming out. I don't know anyone who has been dying to play Mist Classic. Do they just plan to release all the old expansions till they get caught back up? In 5 years are we going to get Dragonflight Classic? That's why I laugh at Classic andies cause they don't think about this. Playing vanilla is great, but re-releasing every expansion is just going to make classic like retail eventually. Playing Mist in retail is probably easier and more covenant than playing through it in Classic as well.
When i played 2019 classic i made an u dead mage then started boosting people for gold always had 4 ppl paying. So yeah the whole leveling experience was skipped by buying gold and paying for boosts. GDKP also ment you didnt need to make any friends hust swipe that credit card.
Classic wow is just a very slow very easy game. One class out performs the others by far(warrior).
I think WoW in general has gotten bad and find it isn't so much the game itself but more the new much younger people playing. This whole basement dwelling over amped up edgelords running around thinking that being a jerk is somehow cool and edgy. Yes I know we had trolls before but these guys are just a different breed of idiotic. We used to call them Cata babies back in the day but Cata is so old now that its whatever expac they came from after the golden age. Its a degree of toxicity that is just unnecessary in an MMO, its just too bad some people feel the need to be this way. Back in the day when you where stuck on a realm and there was NO auto cross realm looking for group there where consequences for having a crappy reputation. Thus it kept certain bad behaviors in check up to a certain point....
I play retail to remind myself why I play classic.
thats funny because playing classic on fresh has reminded me why i play retail.
Ret was insane in PvP, because of extreme RNG. you could get a string of crits and be the most op thing in existence, or not and just be massaging someone's back. But that also does nothing, for Pver's. All that SoD did was fix the class to the Fantasy that people have in their minds of classic paladin.
No one, absolutely No one looks at paladin and goes buff bot. mmm I like that. If you know the Lore, if you have played Dungeons and Dragons. you Know paladins are the holy knights that carry a big ass weapon, layeth the smacketh down, or tank, with some tacked on healing, and stand in the front line.
No one looks at Paladin and goes healer, yumm. If you do, you liked Cleric in DnD, and they should of made a cleric class for the game. If you think of Paladin as anything other than prot and/or Retribution. I'd ask that someone close to you slap you in the face, and then play the Michael Jordan clip for you. 'STop it, get some help."
As for the Story of TWW i have to say i disagree with you for about 90 percent of what you said. I think Valeria is an nice change of pace, she wasn't used all that much in Legion. So i've liked what i've seen so far. She has changed, and yet still has to grow.
I Think Bryn is a nice introduction to the Earthen, and her story line in the Ringing Deeps was good. Khadgar suffers form Superman Syndrome. If you have a character that can answer anyting your enemies throw at him, then that doesn't make for a compelling story. So they took him out to let Valeria shine. They injured him so he can council, but still can't go all out.
Faerin Lothar is an Amazing character, I don't how/why you've over looked her.
The haronir, I find very intriguing and am waiting for the Rootlands.
I think Andiun is finally coming into his own and out of his shell thanks to help from Faerin. So that is positioning him to take back his throne.
Magni has been through alot. They have taken alot of these older established characters and positioned at the forefront, and then taken them back and set them to the side to allow for these new characters to have a chance to shine.
Problem with WoW's story, is they don't want to go the way of SWTOR, where YOU the Player Character are the centerpoint of the story. So we live slightly vicariously through the NPCs' they decide to use.
imagine playing retail and having fun.. I sure the hell cant
It's definitely an acquired taste
I think both are fun in their own way the fans of either one shouldnt bash the other game.
IMO classic is more immersive and has better progression feel but retail has better gameplay and instance content.
Classic is a deeply flawed game and is why the #nochanges crap always annoyed me. Newflash, if you cant play a spec because it is not viable... then its broken and needs fixing. Fingers crossed for a future classic+ which will take some of the things learnt from SoD to make every spec viable, among adding more to the game.
I'd like to cross my fingers and toes as well, classic+ would be sweet
@@ShawnSetGO Isn't that sod I think classic players don't know what they want. The real question is how many times can they re release classic.
I personally just don’t care about Classic. It’s like a museum exhibit to admire on occasion but the actual gameplay and lack of any meaningful content doesn’t appeal to me.
Sure, if you define meaningful content by the number of cinematics
@ Interesting that you think retail doesn’t have any meaningful content. This expansion has had a lot of decently fun stuff to do and 11.1 is looking pretty big as well.
I get the nostalgia people have for Classic but the game simply isn’t fun to play.
@@ShawnSetGO Depends on the person really, I like classic leveling, I think classic raiding is pointless, but equally I think retail is more fun to push M+ score, see how far I can get my gear in a season, and spending time with many of my friends that refuse to play classic because they hate leveling and think 40 man raiding is shit for the amount of loot you get, but the leveling is dogshit and the story is meh, not like either classic or retail really have story to begin with anyway at this point.
So from my perspective Retail's endgame is more meaningful to me than trying to fight 30+ people for a chance at loot compared to like 9, but Classic WoW's leveling is more meaningful because it actually takes a little bit to level and learn your character.
@cloud132456 for sure, classic was a game played off of limitations, whether that be limited loot tables, class ability, or end game options.
classic is a MMORPG..retail is a MMO
Only ting keep me away classic slow lvl did it many tims but go torture again no eugh eugh blizz add boost 60 wont play at all
ah .. i lost all respect for Anduin Wimp .. or what was his name .. that crybaby
He needs like a varian wrynn makeover haha
Classic sucks it was good many moons ago but now it's trash they can keep that boring slow time sink.
Playing wow since wrath idk I play 2 month every year modern more fun
It’s not 2004.
That’s the biggest gripe for me. This alone spreads into different areas of why I just dislike Classic.
It’s slow. It’s arduous. It’s boring.
I love the villains, however. I will forever love the big two - Arthas and Illidan.
Classic has been spreadsheet to death. You can’t recapture the past. It is not the same. The majority of players are nostalgia seekers.
I was there, I did it 20 years ago. I don’t need to go back, I’m not the same person nor the same type of player. I want to go fast. I have things to do. I don’t need to walk to Wailing Caverns as Alliance. I don’t need to adventure my way to RFK or RFD. Been there, done that.
I will take all the advancements and speed of retail any day over classic.
I would love the progression and philosophy of classic combined with class and boss mechanics of Modern WoW. Yes retail has much better class and boss design, sometimes a bit too complex that the game must have addons to work, but it's manageable imo. But I love the progress and sense of adventure that comes with classic, peoples attitudes are much different on classic because how you behave MATTERS unlike the toxicity of retail WoW where everyone just behaves like a huge F-ing snob that is having their time wasted by others. Each have their pros and cons and I reckon if someone put in the effort you could combine the two for an amazing experience. I wouldn't say most people who play classic are just nostalgia seekers. I think it's better displayed as Retail WoW probably attracts those that prefer the destination while classic is those who prefer the journey.
why do retail players even care it doesnt affect them they arent forced to play it if they cry about it just tell them to grow up
@@Demonsouls1993 they wanna be the cool kids table at lunch I guess lol
Because classic weirdos are all over the internet being toxic pretending they are the real wow fans and they play the real game.
Its tiresome. Its very interesting the way classic people cant just talk about why they love classic. They have to snipe at the current expansion.
Heck the fact that you guys call it retail alone is weird. Classic is just as much retail as anything else. Its the taking of private server lingo and subverting it for your circle jerk.
@@shadowsteppahwhy even care what they think if they're a bunch of weirdos?
@@shadowsteppah It's retail because it's the current expansion. Classic is classic, it's not the regular game. Retail just means it's the current expansion, the 1 you actually buy when you buy the game itself and not a subset of something else. Classic is not retail, it's an older version of the game. If anything classic is more like a private server than anything else and should just be considered blizzards version of a private server.
Who cares. I play both versions
@@Ray-lw2rh haha both versions gang
I would go back to clasic, if they upgraded the graphics engine.
Im actually the opposite. I heavily dislike the graphics update.
Yeah Classic is way too clunky overall for me
Minus the particle effects, there's so much visual clutter with abilities and enemies.
@ShawnSetGO that's an issue why so many go to ranged, I'm a bit weird i prefer 3rd person view up close.
@@Yuengification cause you have poor taste.
Retail is a better game; Classic has a better world.
Classic is the superior game. Which is pathetic because it’s 20 years older
Superior if you enjoy easy content sure. It's definitely superior if you want to just dick around and chat up your friends.
@ being harder doesn’t make it a better or worse game tbh. But you are correct. Retails raids are better and they have arena. That’s pretty much it imo.