There's also this guy who does a boxing channel narration that has an Epic voice (Motivedia). I thought how cool it would be if those people with epic voices that do RUclips channels would get together (I mentioned 2 but there are more I heard that were really good or naturally talented) and do a video stream with good quality mics...
You mean alien and bigfoot documentaries. No one remembers when History, Animal Planet, and Nat Geo were about their original content before going Reality TV.
This documentary is pretty much a love letter to Looking Glass and the Thief Community. As one of the developers of The Dark Mod, I feel thankful for the big mention of our labor-of-love. Version 2.08 is just around the corner which will finally bring Screenspace Ambient Occlusion. This rendering technique improves the overall presentation of the game quite a bit. Check it out, people! :-)
@@DiegoAlanTorres96 Of course, actual GI, no matter if prerendered or realtime, is always better. But having SSAO is better than having no ambient occlusion at all. :)
quick question have you gone back to check out some issues? Because I recently just ran through Thief TDP with the Dark Mod and I came across a myriad of issues. One so bad I couldnt even finish a level.
You can't make an history of Thief video without at least mentioning TDM, it's almost part of the franchise at this point, you guys put an insane amount of work into it
Even though I never want to see anyone "Rise then fall" of any game or developer.... these videos are completely intriguing. Thank you for your hardwork
AAA companies fail to fulfil anything for me nowadays. I liked Witcher 3 but CDPR doesn't really operate like all the other AAAs(as of yet at least). Sekiro was a pleasant surprise but apart from that I usually find more joy from experiensing older games I haven't played or in the ever growing and imrpoving indie market. Sony has some great exclusives I'm told but I don't have a PS4:)
@James Gk Divinity is really an indie game. Individual developers of that size have become the new AA. It was even kickstarted. Have played it though, great game. Even Greedfall is considered indie:)
@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 Try new Prey. It's a immersive sim, not a shooter, most reviews got that wrong. And it's really good. Also I disliked Sekiro after playing Nioh. After having so many combat mechanics and such depth to combat, Sekiro really felt barebones and sloppy.
@James Gk Actually I wouldn't, But the studio itself identify as such. Just like the original Mount and Blade (developed by taleworlds) was considered indie despite being published by Paradox. I was a bit perplexed but apparently Greedfall is made by a French indie developer. As Focus does not have ownership of the IP and just Published the game it's considered an indie title and was created and is owned by Spiders.
Rudorlf - this was also such a great level!! From sneaking on the rooftops to infiltrating angel watch. That’s one of my favourite levels of The metal age. 😍😍
I can't even understand what he said, but I assume it's something along the lines of "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."
Seems like Looking Glass *really* loved simulators. It's like 1. "Hm, we made Thief which was successful and a golf simulator which bombed. What should we do next? How about a flight simulator?". 2. "Hm we made Thief 2 which was successful and a flight simulator which bombed. What should we do next? I know! ANOTHER flight simulator". No wonder the studio went bankrupt.
Overambition sure was a pain to devs back in the day. Say what you will about gaming nowadays, at least we don't see such nonsense that much. Oh, and to make things worse, who even plays those sims of theirs nowadays?
Looking Glass is one of those studios that shouldn't have failed considering the games it created, but like so many others, great games sadly don't mean great financial success. We need more games of that quality (relevant to the times of course), because there are just too many AAA shovelware micro transaction filled piles of trash.
@@evilbred974 i wouldn't say shitty just niche. I dunno shit about video game economics but I feel like releasing so many sports and flight sims probably wasn't wise. I know flight sims were kinda popular back in the 90s (wing commander and all) but expecting your golf game to make a killing, especially on PC only seems a bit unrealistic to me, but who knows?
@@mohammedsarker5756 They were shitty as in they weren't really revolutionary, so why would someone play your flight sim over say, Microsoft's? Why would they play your golf game over Tiger Woods Golf. If you are going to put resources towards a niche market game, you need to be head and shoulders the best, because if you aren't the market isn't big enough for two. It was a bad idea for a small studio like Looking Glass to go up against titans with hugely deep pockets in niche market games.
Man, I absolutely loved Thief Deadly Shadows. The Shalebridge Cradle will remain one of the scariest levels I've ever played. The atmosphere, the build-up, everything was designed to be nerve wrackingly frightening.
I would personally love to see "The Rise and Fall of Mercenaries" the open-world action shooter by Pandemic Studios, published by Lucasarts. I can't be the only one.
19:05 That was probably my all time favourite exchange between characters in the second game. Guard 1: "And I'm telling You, that the only stench heartier then your rotting burrick of a master is the liquor on his fettered breath. If he comes near Lady Van Vernon again, we'll boil his knickers!" Guard 2: "YOU'VE GONE... YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME YOU CAMEL MANNERED TUNIC WEARING MOLLY CODDLES! AN ARROW IN THE THROAT OUGHTA SHUT YOU UP!"
It seems like Eidos Montreal didn't have any idea as to what Thief was all about in the first place, nor did they even care at all. No Keepers, Hammerites, Pagans, Mechanists, techno-medieval aesthetics, Monty Python humour etc. Nothing related to Thief at all, except for a few similar names without any context. Why call your game Thief when it has nothing to do with the original games... Why reboot it when you're not gonna use any of its story elements? Eidos Montreal should've created their own IP instead of tainting a perfect trilogy. Turning such a unique and intriguing world into a generic Victorian steampunk setting is a blasphemy. And perhaps the worst crime of all, THERE IS NO "TAFFER". If you're going to make a Thief game, you better use TAFFER, or else, you're a big TAFFER.
Nay, simpleton. Knowest thou not to say 'Taffer' is to speak the name of the defeated adversary, the Trickster? 'Tis a corruption--a cloaking that acknowledges him without intent--and gives him an entry into thy thoughts.' ” - Hammerite
Basically the publishers saw the success of Dishonoured (which was made by many of the original Thief developers), and got Eidos Montreal to copy that formula, minus any originality or imagination.
@@Ammoniumbicarbonat Exactly! It's just a shame really, trying to imitate a game which is a spiritual successor to the very game your trying to reboot! I mean even Garett of the original trilogy wasn't an ordinary man, he was a renegade Keeper and in the end, he had to take the mantle of what he once despised. Thief 3 ending still gives me chills. A perfect trilogy.
Viktoria, Trickster, Karras, all of them are somehow gone! Even the theme of technology vs nature is gone. Dishonored is more Thief than the reboot itself. At least we're getting spiritual successors. Dishonored, (BioShock Infinite) Burial at Sea Episode 2, Dark Mod, Styx, Hedon, the upcoming indie game Gloomwood etc.
Robbing the Cradle scared me so much, i didnt know you could kill the enemies, or maybe i was just too scared to attack them, so i ended up navigating the entire place without killing anyone...
It’s wonderful to hear the community brought up! Through the Looking Glass forums were like a space cantina of creativity in the early 2000s. Where else could you discuss ‘frobbing’ with Sir Terry Pratchett? I did concept art, maps, cutscene paintings and paintings for in level placement in a heap of fan levels. I wish I could go and have that fun all over again
Although I never got into the Thief series, it saddens me how games were so revolutionary during it's inception and how AAA companies manage to ruin their futures. I understand there is a rise and fall to everything, but sometimes I can't help but feel that the corporate side of things is what speeds up that fall, as passion goes out of the window, and money being the only focus.
The Dark Mod is a fantastic game and I totally recommend it to any stealth and thief fan but just so people don't make wrong assumptions and to those that may not know, TDM despite the name is not a mod (it was years ago a mod of Doom 3) is a full stand alone game and tool to do stealth missions and despite being inspired by thief 1/2 in gameplay, is not a thief game, it has its own lore, characters (also inspired on thief but are not the same) and the main character is not Garret.
It's amazing how free mod (The Dark Mod) did better job than professional AAA studio with Thi4f. At least there are still FMs (fan missions) coming out. Looking Glass was best counterexample of "good games sell itself", even back then when games were made for gamers. They made so many influencing and enjoyable titles and most of them sold bad. People can't appreciate good stuff...
Unfortunately, it also didn't help that most people, most families, didn't really have good PC's in their homes, if they even had a PC at all. And even if they did...information was not so easily or readily available. They'd see Thief on the store shelf and not know a thing about it. Is it good? Is it trash? Who knows? Couldn't just google reviews back then... Just a shame all around. Right games at the wrong time, or something like that.
I still remember December of 1998, when I first fired up the demo for the original Thief. Playing the tutorial and the first level felt like a revelation.
I played the demo in March of 99 for the first time. I still remember that feeling. The close stone walls, the atmosphere, the tension. And it was so damn novel. People take for granted that the most popular kind of "stealth formula", as it were (how AI reacts to you, what kind of sounds they make, and the stealth gameplay loop they create) didn't exist until Thief. It was so new, fresh and well-executed that it's still ultimately how stealth games still work today. "Revelation" is right.
the same for me! it was such a HUGE step forward - also I didnt get my hands on Half life 1 until 2001 or 02 bc of being a 13 year old uninformed scrub but boiii did thief 1 n 2 wipe the floor with almost 90% of games released after them... still actively enjoying HD modded etc Thief gold and sometimes part 2 - shoutout to all men and women of culture who had the luck to experience these masterpieces.
One of the best games ever! Also be sure to check out the fan community missions that are still going strong today. There are lots of fan missions spread out over Thief 1/2/3 & The Dark Mod.
@@fioredeutchmark On your way back to the clock tower from Angel Watch, there's a window you can climb into where there's a keeper walking around. He disappears. The keepers leave you a note, and at the end of the hallway there's a secret door full of weapons.
@@mountaingoat3486 I beat Angelwatch a few hours ago, then watched this video and saw your comment. I found the book and the hidden weapons, but it was the first time I found them, I think. What are the odds? I didn't see the keeper, though.
This is arguably one of the best video game documentaries I've ever watched and the most precious of cult titles, Thief, as well as its genius original developers deserve such appreciative overviews.
PSA: Thief's 2 Life of The Party level should be played with fog off - its not meant to be a bright night. The developers even said this. If that doesnt work there is also mods You're welcome
I remember getting thief deadly shadows as a kid at a garage sale and not expecting much only to be totally blown away by what I still consider to be my favorite stealth game of all time. Long nights spending hours on missions just to get every piece of loot and finish the level. I will always love thief deadly shadows!
Thank you for this, very thorough! I loved 1 & 2. Then i played 3 and was a bit put off honestly. Then playing "4" which made me appreciate 3 way more. The lack of Stephen Russell in "4" was also a bad idea. Really took me out of the character :/ But "4" sucked anyways..so he dodged a bullet i suppose.
Russell likely didn’t work on Thief4 due to working on the Dishonored series as the voice of Corvo. Dishonored was the real spiritual successor to the Thief series anyway, and even it’s dev team was comprised of former LGS employees.
@@Dj.MODÆO I don't know man. Seems to me they turned him down. i remember reading he wanted to do it. He even made a rare post on the TTLG forums. Thanking everyone for their support. When fans were mad for turning him down. They did bring him in for testing only to turn him down for someone sounding younger that they could also motion cap :/ www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-03-thief-dev-explains-why-it-ditched-original-garrett-voice-actor Dishonored was way to flashy for me. I really recommend the video "Thief vs AAA gaming" made by Dom Giuca.
The Theif games are amazing and so underrated. I first played Thief 3 on the ps3 and was blown away. I didn't expect the storyline to go the way it did. It really throws you for a loop and keeps the game so entertaining to play.
What made the original thief games so compelling was that they were set in a world where steampunk met gothic medievalism. It was utterly unique. The reboot was a travesty. It ditched the unique aesthetic for a generic steampunk world. It is a dishonoured Rip off, and the sad thing is Dishonored was in many ways a homage to the original thief games!
Oddly enough, my biggest issue with Thief 4 was the inability to save as often as I wanted. Pissed me off to no end to spend an hour stealthily looting the main area only to get pwned by a single guard and lose all that progress >.>;;
Looking Glass is a one of the most important game developers to ever exist. Their work has left a profound legacy still seen in many games today. Though they may no longer exist, their work will leave a mark that few others can ever hope to match in video game history.
Dunno why youtube recommended this, I've never searched for Thief related videos or anything it's been well over 10 years since I even thought about this game series. But your Prologue hit the nail on the head. when certain songs come on the radio from bands i listened to while playing this game I get warm fuzzy feelings inside of my days playing the original Thief 1 and Thief 2(best in the series) Such a good game. Would you consider doing a video on THQ's Summoner 1 and 2. Summoner 1 came out the same time Thief 2 did. I remember getting both of them as a included gift with a Video Card purchase. and I was blown away how good both games were. what happened to Summoner is truly tragic.
This channel is so fucking good. I never even played thief but these videos are SOOOOOO interesting. And all in a legitimate documentary style. Incredible content!
That's a really good take/commentary of the current industry. He doesn't try to dismiss or devalue AAA games but put emphasis of what we have lost in especially the last decade with the obsession of only pursuing increasingly better surface graphics, and the streamlining and handholding that follows. Sometimes its downright condescending and really removes all the joy of gaming:(
I really appreciate that this RUclips channel manages to find old video footage of dev studios. Makes me nostalgic for CRT monitors, ball mice, even G4/TechTV haha! It must not have been easy to get them considering they do it for all their documentaries.
The Witcher 3 is dog shit. I wouldnt say Thief is underrated as much as it feels like it doesnt get the recognition it deserves when compared to stuff like MGS.
@@mistertagomago7974 yeah absolute dog ass game, worst game ever. I'm ashamed to be alive when i know that the Witcher 3 exists. Witcher 3 ruined my life, i fucking hate that game, an absolute garbage overrated game, right? Right?
I just want to add just one missing thing from this fantastic video, which is how amazing and moody the music of Thief was, for me it played a huge role in making me fall in love with the game.
I think it could have worked if it was done as total reboot of the series. Deadly Shadows has a very definite ending and i don't know where they could have taken it from there. So it seems like rebooting the whole thing would have been the best situation.
@@smolqnbg you say that but the reboot takes the ending of deadly shadows and runs with it, the girl that tries to pick pocket garret is Erin, heck they could have had the forth having erin as the main character and garret as her mentor, but to change the setting as much as making it cyberpunk? no thanks :P
@@Bomtaker01 That's what i mean. When thief 2014 ran with the ending of deadly shadows it sucked hard, so i say just sever all the ties with the original series and start fresh. Dishonored seems like it might be the direction thief should take(minus the crazy superpowers crap).
@@smolqnbg The reason Thief 2014 is that 1. Garrets character had been changed from guy that steals to pay the bills because he's good at it to i "am the dark avenger" 2. The world wasnt as fleshed out as the originals, (nobody calling each other taffer, the lack of the Hammerites and other notable stuff from the originals, and 3. they replaced Stephen Russell as garrets VA. Dishonored style i have no problem with, cyberpunk on the otherhand seems way to far out there though
@@Bomtaker01 Yeah could have been a sequel franchise like Batman Beyond was. Advancing the franchise, while changing the setting featuring Erin, with an old Garret as her mentor. Would have worked just fine methinks!
Had to subscribe this guys voice is amazing and Thief the dark project and thief 2 the metal age and thief deadly shadows are my favorite games will always be.
I like to think of the rebooted thief has a distant memory..... Until I saw that thumbnail where I immediately remembered my immense disappointment from the day I've finished it.
I didnt even play the original Thief games until a while after I played the reboot and I found it disappointing. Even without the Thief name on it it just wasnt a good game.
Thief really was a unique game. A well fleshed out world and a truly atmospheric experience. And the sad reality we face is this series will most likely never return
Finally, the best professional-level game review producer (with writing on par with reviewers such as Mandalore, and Noah Gervais Caldwell , the latter of whom reviewed this already, and both introduced me to the game, and also Prey) reviews one of the best games ever made. Better late than never! The industry has made everything too easy and slot machiney. Like sex, gratification is best when delayed to a longer sweet spot for optimal dopamine release. Easy-play, easy-loot non-immersive game experiences are, I hope, all getting pushed to the phone games ghetto where they belong.
Thief series are still alive in a way thanks to the fan made missions that appear on this website from time to time, endless hours of gameplay, some even better than the original missions: www.southquarter.com/fms/ And if you find yourself wondering on how to install anything like mission loaders etc there is a helpful community forum: www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100 On top of this, what has been missed in this video, probably due to the fact that it is a by product of Thief games on a completely different engine - a mod for UT99 called Thievery, which used to have a very intense community with competitive online gameplay, nowadays prolly not so much, but if you look around you may find a few willing to play on the remaining servers still. Note that there is a possibility as well to play T2 with another player, it just requires some additional programs/loaders iirc, same for System Shock 2!
Thief is a Great, unique and awesome game and We Want Another!!! Remake all the old ones or make new ones but this great game needs to be revived! If the pc players don't want it then definitely make it for Xbox Series X and other consoles if ya want but we need another Thief game. I loved that remake gameplay and was left wanting more! We've been waiting for over 8 years now💯🙏🤞
Oh my. It's one of those "Look how they massacred my boy". Still, Thief 3, while dragged down by attempt to ship to X-box and thus, bad optimalisation that could not support both new graphics and it's previous open-ended structure, did give us one important thing. Closure. With both chaos and order in check and power of the Keepers cast down, the balance is preserved and people of the City are free to continue along towards their own destiny... As long as they don't mind being blackjacked and mugged every 30 meters, lmao.
Nice how when you say Thief 3 (Deadly Shadows) had its good points the video shows the Cradle level- that was by a colossal margin the best part of the game for me and one of the finest video game levels I've ever played.
The Dark Project and System Shock are 2 of the best games I've ever played. While the legacy has been spotty for both, I'm glad they were released in the first place.
damn one thing that the first 2 Thief games succeeds in doing so (yes, including Deadly Shadows) is the environment. I just love the surreal dark ambience whenever you walk in the shadows
I think community of the original thief games should bomb them on their emails with links of videos that criticized this new game, and everything thata done right in old thief games
Always felt that Arkane's decision to have Stephen Russell voice Corvo in Dishonored 2 was a nod to Garrett/Thief. A nice bit of fan service, considering that Dishonored is in many ways the spiritual successor to Thief.
I'm scared to go back and play it because I hold it in so high esteem, I wonder if it would be dated to play now. Absolutely loved that level even if the game around it wasn't as enjoyable as the original 2.
Could you do a video on Troika? Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines and Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscurra are both “flawed masterpieces” in a lot of players’ eyes. I’m not sure how much information is out there for your research though, but their story would be perfect for a video!
Robbing the Cradle was one of my best video game experiences ever.
4 года назад
In an age of journalistic...what’s the opposite of integrity?, channels like yours remind me that true journalism exists. And it is wonderful. I’m getting to the age where I enjoy the history of gams more than the games themselves. Thank you.
NihilisticIdealist No. Remake. The mechanics are too old to surpass 500,000 sales in the current decade. Obviously they should keep what made the first great and not make it similar to the reboot but you’re lost in nostalgia if you think it’s a good idea to carry over AI, graphics and melee combat from the 90s to a game made now.
The Volcanic Masochist A lot of people liked the first two. They weren’t the highest rated games, but the first two are still pretty well rated and were enjoyed for coop. Plus the covered the lost planet series and that series has a worse average reception than the army of two series.
Honestly I hate to sate it, but Hitman his been so successful for Square these days with the subsequent titles that followed Absolution, that I don't think they're concerned about a 5th Thief game anytime soon.
@@mistertagomago7974 I am not even sure about that. Its like the Star Wars or Highlander sequels, you can ignore them all you want but it still got made and it still happened.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This man sounds like he narrates History Channel war documentaries. And that is just the dopest thing ever.
@Omne Obstat Not the same guy...YET!
There's also this guy who does a boxing channel narration that has an Epic voice (Motivedia). I thought how cool it would be if those people with epic voices that do RUclips channels would get together (I mentioned 2 but there are more I heard that were really good or naturally talented) and do a video stream with good quality mics...
You mean alien and bigfoot documentaries. No one remembers when History, Animal Planet, and Nat Geo were about their original content before going Reality TV.
Lol he does : )
@@Nicholas-dd9js thankgod we have youtube eh all i look for nowdays doc's history war & gaming
This documentary is pretty much a love letter to Looking Glass and the Thief Community. As one of the developers of The Dark Mod, I feel thankful for the big mention of our labor-of-love. Version 2.08 is just around the corner which will finally bring Screenspace Ambient Occlusion. This rendering technique improves the overall presentation of the game quite a bit. Check it out, people! :-)
Awesome. I've loved thief since I was a kid, and regard TDM as best looking and executed version of the game mechanic.
Not much of a fan of SSAO but hope you guys handle it well.
@@DiegoAlanTorres96 Of course, actual GI, no matter if prerendered or realtime, is always better. But having SSAO is better than having no ambient occlusion at all. :)
quick question have you gone back to check out some issues? Because I recently just ran through Thief TDP with the Dark Mod and I came across a myriad of issues. One so bad I couldnt even finish a level.
You can't make an history of Thief video without at least mentioning TDM, it's almost part of the franchise at this point, you guys put an insane amount of work into it
Even though I never want to see anyone "Rise then fall" of any game or developer.... these videos are completely intriguing. Thank you for your hardwork
"Why do we fall? To learn how to get back up."
Especially with a series that was as great as Thief.
I want to see it for bioware and blizzard
@@moviemetalhead Batman Begins Hans Zimmer score *INTENSIFIES*
"...see Thief 3 through to fruition..."
Narrator Skill Level: Master
LOL! Thanks.
God damn
God damn
Luckily the Dark mod exists, helped to fullfil my thief hunger while AAA-companies fail to do so.
AAA companies fail to fulfil anything for me nowadays. I liked Witcher 3 but CDPR doesn't really operate like all the other AAAs(as of yet at least). Sekiro was a pleasant surprise but apart from that I usually find more joy from experiensing older games I haven't played or in the ever growing and imrpoving indie market. Sony has some great exclusives I'm told but I don't have a PS4:)
@James Gk Divinity is really an indie game. Individual developers of that size have become the new AA. It was even kickstarted. Have played it though, great game. Even Greedfall is considered indie:)
@@gentlesirpancakebottoms6692 Try new Prey. It's a immersive sim, not a shooter, most reviews got that wrong. And it's really good.
Also I disliked Sekiro after playing Nioh. After having so many combat mechanics and such depth to combat, Sekiro really felt barebones and sloppy.
@James Gk Actually I wouldn't, But the studio itself identify as such. Just like the original Mount and Blade (developed by taleworlds) was considered indie despite being published by Paradox. I was a bit perplexed but apparently Greedfall is made by a French indie developer. As Focus does not have ownership of the IP and just Published the game it's considered an indie title and was created and is owned by Spiders.
if you haven't already, you should check out Gloomwood. it might scratch that itch when it releases
19:13 Ah, the iconic scene of the guards throwing Monty Python-esque insults towards each other.
I missed this series dearly.
"The Saga of the Festering Wound"
ruclips.net/video/fgSwjGkJYRM/видео.html
xD
Rudorlf - this was also such a great level!! From sneaking on the rooftops to infiltrating angel watch. That’s one of my favourite levels of The metal age. 😍😍
It was the original simp war lmao
I can't even understand what he said, but I assume it's something along the lines of "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."
Josh Wallace - right! This level was so fun to play! A huge level with lots of opportunity to be sneaky 😀
Seems like Looking Glass *really* loved simulators. It's like
1. "Hm, we made Thief which was successful and a golf simulator which bombed. What should we do next? How about a flight simulator?".
2. "Hm we made Thief 2 which was successful and a flight simulator which bombed. What should we do next? I know! ANOTHER flight simulator".
No wonder the studio went bankrupt.
Yeah. Never got Looking glass' obsession with flight simulators. Not even like the market really thrived for another flight simulator that times.
Overambition sure was a pain to devs back in the day. Say what you will about gaming nowadays, at least we don't see such nonsense that much.
Oh, and to make things worse, who even plays those sims of theirs nowadays?
I really liked Flight Unlimited 2 :(
This channel deserves way more subscribers, these videos are always so well made and high quality.
Right!! Helps me through my sickdays tbh
Deserves 1 bil subs
But the narrator's voice is generic and filtered into oblivion. I just wanna hear his real voice.
@@iHaveTheDocuments Yup. I almost never watched one of these great videos because of the voice.
Agreed
Instant click when this appeared in my feed. These are the best game documentaries, ever.
you can say that again bro~ GVMERS, MAX RESPECT !
They truly are definitive. If these ever broadcasted on TV. I would tape each and every one of them just to have on the shelf
Check out noclip
These are so few and far between but that just makes it more exciting, when they post something. Favorite gaming channel on yt!
Was waiting for this for a long time!
Looking Glass is one of those studios that shouldn't have failed considering the games it created, but like so many others, great games sadly don't mean great financial success. We need more games of that quality (relevant to the times of course), because there are just too many AAA shovelware micro transaction filled piles of trash.
most people had a ps2 at the time and had no idea what was really going on in gaming
They created too many shitty games that no one wanted so that in the end their amazing games couldn't keep them afloat.
@@evilbred974 i wouldn't say shitty just niche. I dunno shit about video game economics but I feel like releasing so many sports and flight sims probably wasn't wise. I know flight sims were kinda popular back in the 90s (wing commander and all) but expecting your golf game to make a killing, especially on PC only seems a bit unrealistic to me, but who knows?
@@mohammedsarker5756 They were shitty as in they weren't really revolutionary, so why would someone play your flight sim over say, Microsoft's? Why would they play your golf game over Tiger Woods Golf. If you are going to put resources towards a niche market game, you need to be head and shoulders the best, because if you aren't the market isn't big enough for two. It was a bad idea for a small studio like Looking Glass to go up against titans with hugely deep pockets in niche market games.
makes you think perhaps the commercial market just doesn't allow for innovation.
Man, I absolutely loved Thief Deadly Shadows. The Shalebridge Cradle will remain one of the scariest levels I've ever played. The atmosphere, the build-up, everything was designed to be nerve wrackingly frightening.
Thief Deadly Shadows was no Thief 2, but The Shalebridge Cradle was so damn creepy.
@@tisFrancesfault Deadly Shadows is better than Thief 2 deal with it
Did you see the terrible attempt at Shalebridge rip off in Thief 4? Everything about Thief 4 was awful.
I had it on og cd case too! until i moved and lost it
@@KevinGeneFeldman ah the Moira asylum right?
The Objective sound of Thief 3 is my Message ringtone since 15 years
that and the sound from arx fatalis when you find something are my favorites
Thats awesome dude
It's my ebay tone 😂😂
Dwarf-Elvish Diplomacy Good idea
Dwarf-Elvish Diplomacy Good choice
I would personally love to see "The Rise and Fall of Mercenaries" the open-world action shooter by Pandemic Studios, published by Lucasarts. I can't be the only one.
Loved the hell out of the first game on PS2
What fall? Mercenaries 2 is an amazing game.
Your wish was granted, heh
@@andytoskovic, fall of the developer
@@andytoskovic Horrible game.
Thief is the best game I ever watched my husband play. Brilliant writing, a great look, funny too. Such a shame that it went downhill.
This game was shit
Ya know, "Dark Camelot" 's concept still sounds cool even after all these years.
It would be nice to see a fan mission pack based off of it
I really hope someone will pick up this idea.
Then let's make it out of the Dark Engine. What's stopping us? OURSELVES!?
@@tzimisce1753 bruh
Yeah I would buy a game with that setting in a heartbeat
19:05 That was probably my all time favourite exchange between characters in the second game.
Guard 1: "And I'm telling You, that the only stench heartier then your rotting burrick of a master is the liquor on his fettered breath. If he comes near Lady Van Vernon again, we'll boil his knickers!"
Guard 2: "YOU'VE GONE... YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME YOU CAMEL MANNERED TUNIC WEARING MOLLY CODDLES! AN ARROW IN THE THROAT OUGHTA SHUT YOU UP!"
It seems like Eidos Montreal didn't have any idea as to what Thief was all about in the first place, nor did they even care at all. No Keepers, Hammerites, Pagans, Mechanists, techno-medieval aesthetics, Monty Python humour etc. Nothing related to Thief at all, except for a few similar names without any context. Why call your game Thief when it has nothing to do with the original games... Why reboot it when you're not gonna use any of its story elements? Eidos Montreal should've created their own IP instead of tainting a perfect trilogy. Turning such a unique and intriguing world into a generic Victorian steampunk setting is a blasphemy. And perhaps the worst crime of all, THERE IS NO "TAFFER".
If you're going to make a Thief game, you better use TAFFER, or else, you're a big TAFFER.
Nay, simpleton. Knowest thou not to say 'Taffer' is to speak the name of the defeated adversary, the Trickster? 'Tis a corruption--a cloaking that acknowledges him without intent--and gives him an entry into thy thoughts.' ”
- Hammerite
Basically the publishers saw the success of Dishonoured (which was made by many of the original Thief developers), and got Eidos Montreal to copy that formula, minus any originality or imagination.
@@Ammoniumbicarbonat Exactly! It's just a shame really, trying to imitate a game which is a spiritual successor to the very game your trying to reboot! I mean even Garett of the original trilogy wasn't an ordinary man, he was a renegade Keeper and in the end, he had to take the mantle of what he once despised. Thief 3 ending still gives me chills. A perfect trilogy.
Yet the gameplay of thief reboot is the neat
Viktoria, Trickster, Karras, all of them are somehow gone! Even the theme of technology vs nature is gone. Dishonored is more Thief than the reboot itself. At least we're getting spiritual successors. Dishonored, (BioShock Infinite) Burial at Sea Episode 2, Dark Mod, Styx, Hedon, the upcoming indie game Gloomwood etc.
Best and most hilarious enemy voice acting ever. All of the guards sound like Disney villains.
“I guard a pain for youuuuu!”
Robbing the Cradle scared me so much, i didnt know you could kill the enemies, or maybe i was just too scared to attack them, so i ended up navigating the entire place without killing anyone...
It’s wonderful to hear the community brought up! Through the Looking Glass forums were like a space cantina of creativity in the early 2000s. Where else could you discuss ‘frobbing’ with Sir Terry Pratchett? I did concept art, maps, cutscene paintings and paintings for in level placement in a heap of fan levels. I wish I could go and have that fun all over again
Although I never got into the Thief series, it saddens me how games were so revolutionary during it's inception and how AAA companies manage to ruin their futures. I understand there is a rise and fall to everything, but sometimes I can't help but feel that the corporate side of things is what speeds up that fall, as passion goes out of the window, and money being the only focus.
The Dark Mod is a fantastic game and I totally recommend it to any stealth and thief fan but just so people don't make wrong assumptions and to those that may not know, TDM despite the name is not a mod (it was years ago a mod of Doom 3) is a full stand alone game and tool to do stealth missions and despite being inspired by thief 1/2 in gameplay, is not a thief game, it has its own lore, characters (also inspired on thief but are not the same) and the main character is not Garret.
It's amazing how free mod (The Dark Mod) did better job than professional AAA studio with Thi4f. At least there are still FMs (fan missions) coming out.
Looking Glass was best counterexample of "good games sell itself", even back then when games were made for gamers. They made so many influencing and enjoyable titles and most of them sold bad. People can't appreciate good stuff...
@rabid is the dark mod based on another game?
@@aagh8714 It is, I believe its based on Doom 3.
@@TechTier_ weird base but i actually kind of feel the doom 3 in the movement, damn that's strange
guess they wanted the lighting engine real bad
@@aagh8714 yes, it certainly is
Unfortunately, it also didn't help that most people, most families, didn't really have good PC's in their homes, if they even had a PC at all. And even if they did...information was not so easily or readily available. They'd see Thief on the store shelf and not know a thing about it. Is it good? Is it trash? Who knows? Couldn't just google reviews back then... Just a shame all around. Right games at the wrong time, or something like that.
I still remember December of 1998, when I first fired up the demo for the original Thief. Playing the tutorial and the first level felt like a revelation.
I played the demo in March of 99 for the first time. I still remember that feeling. The close stone walls, the atmosphere, the tension. And it was so damn novel. People take for granted that the most popular kind of "stealth formula", as it were (how AI reacts to you, what kind of sounds they make, and the stealth gameplay loop they create) didn't exist until Thief. It was so new, fresh and well-executed that it's still ultimately how stealth games still work today. "Revelation" is right.
JohnGaltAustria I miss the excitement of getting free demo discs at CompUSA
the same for me! it was such a HUGE step forward - also I didnt get my hands on Half life 1 until 2001 or 02 bc of being a 13 year old uninformed scrub but boiii did thief 1 n 2 wipe the floor with almost 90% of games released after them... still actively enjoying HD modded etc Thief gold and sometimes part 2 - shoutout to all men and women of culture who had the luck to experience these masterpieces.
@@xXNickPXx I also still remember the day I played the demo, I fell in love instantly with it.
Thanks for this. Perfect time to mourn this franchise for what it once became
The games are still here as well as fan missions. Though looking glass is no longer here, their work will not be forgotten.
@Hollow Skull Still more active and praised over WD2. You tried buddy
@@hibye7385 couldn't agree more
Still love the Metal Age the most. Loved the steampunk-ish world and the plot where you not really intended to be the hero in any level.
One of the best games ever! Also be sure to check out the fan community missions that are still going strong today. There are lots of fan missions spread out over Thief 1/2/3 & The Dark Mod.
Praise to Karrass... And the builder
Playing Calendras legacy right now it's amazing !
Going with the news today, i'm playing The Seven Sisters FM on T2. Made by Lady Rowena, may she rest in peace.
Don't forget T2X
I've been playing thief for 15 years and just the other day I discovered a secret I'd never found before. Incredible game really.
What was the secret?
@@fioredeutchmark On your way back to the clock tower from Angel Watch, there's a window you can climb into where there's a keeper walking around. He disappears. The keepers leave you a note, and at the end of the hallway there's a secret door full of weapons.
@@mountaingoat3486 That's an awesome find. :D
@@mountaingoat3486 I beat Angelwatch a few hours ago, then watched this video and saw your comment. I found the book and the hidden weapons, but it was the first time I found them, I think. What are the odds? I didn't see the keeper, though.
@@artey6671 yeah sometimes he's already gone. Maybe because you passed close by earlier who knows..
A new Gvmers documentary drops
Me at 5AM: Yeah, I didn't need sleep anyway.
Givmerz makes the best dox
24:36
''to see Thief Three Through'' how did you manage to say that so well lmao
He probably did multiple takes and used the best one
This is arguably one of the best video game documentaries I've ever watched and the most precious of cult titles, Thief, as well as its genius original developers deserve such appreciative overviews.
PSA: Thief's 2 Life of The Party level should be played with fog off - its not meant to be a bright night. The developers even said this. If that doesnt work there is also mods
You're welcome
I didnt even know that was a nightime level.
I've never played a thief game but I can't miss content from this channel its so well narrated and documented, excellent job!
I remember getting thief
deadly shadows as a kid at a garage sale and not expecting much only to be totally blown away by what I still consider to be my favorite stealth game of all time. Long nights spending hours on missions just to get every piece of loot and finish the level. I will always love thief deadly shadows!
Thank you for this, very thorough! I loved 1 & 2. Then i played 3 and was a bit put off honestly. Then playing "4" which made me appreciate 3 way more.
The lack of Stephen Russell in "4" was also a bad idea. Really took me out of the character :/ But "4" sucked anyways..so he dodged a bullet i suppose.
Russell likely didn’t work on Thief4 due to working on the Dishonored series as the voice of Corvo. Dishonored was the real spiritual successor to the Thief series anyway, and even it’s dev team was comprised of former LGS employees.
@@Dj.MODÆO I don't know man. Seems to me they turned him down. i remember reading he wanted to do it. He even made a rare post on the TTLG forums. Thanking everyone for their support. When fans were mad for turning him down. They did bring him in for testing only to turn him down for someone sounding younger that they could also motion cap :/
www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-03-thief-dev-explains-why-it-ditched-original-garrett-voice-actor
Dishonored was way to flashy for me. I really recommend the video "Thief vs AAA gaming" made by Dom Giuca.
The Theif games are amazing and so underrated. I first played Thief 3 on the ps3 and was blown away. I didn't expect the storyline to go the way it did. It really throws you for a loop and keeps the game so entertaining to play.
What made the original thief games so compelling was that they were set in a world where steampunk met gothic medievalism. It was utterly unique.
The reboot was a travesty. It ditched the unique aesthetic for a generic steampunk world. It is a dishonoured Rip off, and the sad thing is Dishonored was in many ways a homage to the original thief games!
Oddly enough, my biggest issue with Thief 4 was the inability to save as often as I wanted. Pissed me off to no end to spend an hour stealthily looting the main area only to get pwned by a single guard and lose all that progress >.>;;
Both Dark Project 1&2 are a master class in game design. Videogame "delicacies".
Why was there no mention of the voice acting? As soon as Stephen Russell was no longer involved I really felt the game lost something.
Exactly! His voice was the essence of the first three games' atmosphere.
Looking Glass is a one of the most important game developers to ever exist. Their work has left a profound legacy still seen in many games today. Though they may no longer exist, their work will leave a mark that few others can ever hope to match in video game history.
Amen to that
Take it back GVMERS!!
Thief never fell and there was no fourth thief game!
Dunno why youtube recommended this, I've never searched for Thief related videos or anything it's been well over 10 years since I even thought about this game series. But your Prologue hit the nail on the head. when certain songs come on the radio from bands i listened to while playing this game I get warm fuzzy feelings inside of my days playing the original Thief 1 and Thief 2(best in the series) Such a good game. Would you consider doing a video on THQ's Summoner 1 and 2. Summoner 1 came out the same time Thief 2 did. I remember getting both of them as a included gift with a Video Card purchase. and I was blown away how good both games were. what happened to Summoner is truly tragic.
I enjoyed the 2014 game. I wasnt familiar with the franchise, but was looking for new stealth game when it came out and it didnt disappoint imo
This channel is so fucking good. I never even played thief but these videos are SOOOOOO interesting. And all in a legitimate documentary style. Incredible content!
Amazing work, you are creating art! I can't imagine the effort you put in these, please don't ever stop, you have something special here.
Look up "Thief vs AAA Gaming" for something similar.
That's a really good take/commentary of the current industry. He doesn't try to dismiss or devalue AAA games but put emphasis of what we have lost in especially the last decade with the obsession of only pursuing increasingly better surface graphics, and the streamlining and handholding that follows. Sometimes its downright condescending and really removes all the joy of gaming:(
I found it biased
Thank you so much for doing this. Thief the dark project is my favourite game of all time.
The dark project was my PC lifetime with quake 2 and Half-Life... Such great times.
Seeing as you played both I am contemplating getting quake or theif 1. Both seem really good. Which would you recommend?
I really appreciate that this RUclips channel manages to find old video footage of dev studios. Makes me nostalgic for CRT monitors, ball mice, even G4/TechTV haha! It must not have been easy to get them considering they do it for all their documentaries.
Still my favorite franchise - it really got me into singleplayer games as a whole, hope the do a real fourth part at some point.
The footstep Foley from Thief TDP still sets me on edge. I guess it's a Pavlovian response.
Ahh... Thief. So underrated.
Bet you also think The Witcher 3 is a criminally underrated indie game
The Witcher 3 is dog shit. I wouldnt say Thief is underrated as much as it feels like it doesnt get the recognition it deserves when compared to stuff like MGS.
@@JumalaPlays And how exactly did you came to that genius conclusion?
+Naapurin Jorma Well it was never popular it just has a very strong active fanbase. Everyone has heard of bladerunner but both films bombed
@@mistertagomago7974 yeah absolute dog ass game, worst game ever.
I'm ashamed to be alive when i know that the Witcher 3 exists.
Witcher 3 ruined my life, i fucking hate that game, an absolute garbage overrated game, right?
Right?
I just want to add just one missing thing from this fantastic video, which is how amazing and moody the music of Thief was, for me it played a huge role in making me fall in love with the game.
Real Talk though, the Cyberpunk thief 4 sounds dreadful, makes me almost happy about the Reboot we got
I think it could have worked if it was done as total reboot of the series. Deadly Shadows has a very definite ending and i don't know where they could have taken it from there. So it seems like rebooting the whole thing would have been the best situation.
@@smolqnbg you say that but the reboot takes the ending of deadly shadows and runs with it, the girl that tries to pick pocket garret is Erin, heck they could have had the forth having erin as the main character and garret as her mentor, but to change the setting as much as making it cyberpunk? no thanks :P
@@Bomtaker01 That's what i mean. When thief 2014 ran with the ending of deadly shadows it sucked hard, so i say just sever all the ties with the original series and start fresh. Dishonored seems like it might be the direction thief should take(minus the crazy superpowers crap).
@@smolqnbg The reason Thief 2014 is that 1. Garrets character had been changed from guy that steals to pay the bills because he's good at it to i "am the dark avenger" 2. The world wasnt as fleshed out as the originals, (nobody calling each other taffer, the lack of the Hammerites and other notable stuff from the originals, and 3. they replaced Stephen Russell as garrets VA. Dishonored style i have no problem with, cyberpunk on the otherhand seems way to far out there though
@@Bomtaker01 Yeah could have been a sequel franchise like Batman Beyond was. Advancing the franchise, while changing the setting featuring Erin, with an old Garret as her mentor. Would have worked just fine methinks!
Had to subscribe this guys voice is amazing and Thief the dark project and thief 2 the metal age and thief deadly shadows are my favorite games will always be.
I like to think of the rebooted thief has a distant memory..... Until I saw that thumbnail where I immediately remembered my immense disappointment from the day I've finished it.
my god vietnam flashbacks of that nothing saying ending triggered in my mind now; gosh that was so bad
I didnt even play the original Thief games until a while after I played the reboot and I found it disappointing. Even without the Thief name on it it just wasnt a good game.
Thief really was a unique game. A well fleshed out world and a truly atmospheric experience. And the sad reality we face is this series will most likely never return
Finally, the best professional-level game review producer (with writing on par with reviewers such as Mandalore, and Noah Gervais Caldwell , the latter of whom reviewed this already, and both introduced me to the game, and also Prey) reviews one of the best games ever made. Better late than never!
The industry has made everything too easy and slot machiney. Like sex, gratification is best when delayed to a longer sweet spot for optimal dopamine release. Easy-play, easy-loot non-immersive game experiences are, I hope, all getting pushed to the phone games ghetto where they belong.
I don't recall Mandalore covered any of the games, but LGR did.
@@rudorlf3441 You're right! I love LGR
5:18 I've watched all GVMER docus and this has got to be the one time docu voice over guy added emotional inflection in his narration
Would be funny to see Rune rise and fall.. ending would be epic.
Thank you for helping to keep this legend alive.
From a diehard Thief fan.
I loved Deadly Shadows. I still play it from time to time.
Been sick last few days been binge watching these videos totally underrated channel y’all deserve more
Thief series are still alive in a way thanks to the fan made missions that appear on this website from time to time, endless hours of gameplay, some even better than the original missions: www.southquarter.com/fms/ And if you find yourself wondering on how to install anything like mission loaders etc there is a helpful community forum: www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=100 On top of this, what has been missed in this video, probably due to the fact that it is a by product of Thief games on a completely different engine - a mod for UT99 called Thievery, which used to have a very intense community with competitive online gameplay, nowadays prolly not so much, but if you look around you may find a few willing to play on the remaining servers still. Note that there is a possibility as well to play T2 with another player, it just requires some additional programs/loaders iirc, same for System Shock 2!
I still remember the robbing the cradle mission. That was creepy as hell to get through, but it made the game even better for me.
Was looking for a video to watch while eating when the notification poped up , never have i clicked so fast in my life XD
Thief is a Great, unique and awesome game and We Want Another!!! Remake all the old ones or make new ones but this great game needs to be revived! If the pc players don't want it then definitely make it for Xbox Series X and other consoles if ya want but we need another Thief game. I loved that remake gameplay and was left wanting more! We've been waiting for over 8 years now💯🙏🤞
This is amazing
No likes or comments... That is sad!
NO WAY WE SHARE THE SAME TASTE IN STEALTH GAMES
This is seriously the best channel on YT. Why does this not have millions of plays
Oh my. It's one of those "Look how they massacred my boy". Still, Thief 3, while dragged down by attempt to ship to X-box and thus, bad optimalisation that could not support both new graphics and it's previous open-ended structure, did give us one important thing.
Closure.
With both chaos and order in check and power of the Keepers cast down, the balance is preserved and people of the City are free to continue along towards their own destiny... As long as they don't mind being blackjacked and mugged every 30 meters, lmao.
Nice how when you say Thief 3 (Deadly Shadows) had its good points the video shows the Cradle level- that was by a colossal margin the best part of the game for me and one of the finest video game levels I've ever played.
Never clicked so fast in my life, sadly. I sure love Thief. I wish they'd fix it. Get the Looking Glass crew back!
Christopher LeBlanc - Art & Design Have you ever ejaculated before
The Dark Project and System Shock are 2 of the best games I've ever played. While the legacy has been spotty for both, I'm glad they were released in the first place.
I would love to see a "rise and fall of daikatana/ion storm"
IMO: Thief Deadly Shadows is so incredibly underrated. It left me captivated as a teen.
to this date i still plays Deadly shadows, love it
Deadly shadows is my favourite. Just becaus of the atmosphere and reneasnce england feel.
I just about never play games more than once, I've probably played Thief 3 through 6 times.
@@KevinGeneFeldman If you never tryed, give it a try to the fan mission and the sneaky tweaker
@Arpadiam Which fan mission?
@@Spr1ggan87 em ok thats your opinon.
damn one thing that the first 2 Thief games succeeds in doing so (yes, including Deadly Shadows) is the environment. I just love the surreal dark ambience whenever you walk in the shadows
Playing The Dark Project for the first time in a pitch black room, at night, with headphones a few years ago was an unforgettable experience.
20:57 That lady had the smoothest transition from hug right back to conversation lol
Can’t wait for Thief 2 (2026) with lootboxes determining how many guards are in a level or wether its day or night
I think community of the original thief games should bomb them on their emails with links of videos that criticized this new game, and everything thata done right in old thief games
Always felt that Arkane's decision to have Stephen Russell voice Corvo in Dishonored 2 was a nod to Garrett/Thief. A nice bit of fan service, considering that Dishonored is in many ways the spiritual successor to Thief.
Love the TRILOGY so much.
Shalebridge Cradle, still holds. Played it a few weeks back and it is chilling.
Scariest level ever made. Scarier than any whole game ever made actually. But not only that level, the living statues as well were terrifying.
I'm scared to go back and play it because I hold it in so high esteem, I wonder if it would be dated to play now. Absolutely loved that level even if the game around it wasn't as enjoyable as the original 2.
@@teemumalinen9901 No it's not dated. If anything the slightly dated graphics make it more surreal and eerie. check it out.
hey GVMERS is it possible to make "The History of Ghost Recon" that would be great.
Stay safe!
Could you do a video on Troika? Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines and Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magic Obscurra are both “flawed masterpieces” in a lot of players’ eyes. I’m not sure how much information is out there for your research though, but their story would be perfect for a video!
The thief community is like the CnC community. We never die off
I've played Thief from day 1 and still want more. I want more of the original story and area.
Robbing the Cradle was one of my best video game experiences ever.
In an age of journalistic...what’s the opposite of integrity?, channels like yours remind me that true journalism exists. And it is wonderful. I’m getting to the age where I enjoy the history of gams more than the games themselves. Thank you.
A game that deserves a remake of the first two games.
Remaster
Hell no. the originals are fine the way they are.
Yeah I imagine much of the atmosphere would be lost in remaster or remakes.
No need for remake a simple revamp will get the job done.
NihilisticIdealist No. Remake. The mechanics are too old to surpass 500,000 sales in the current decade. Obviously they should keep what made the first great and not make it similar to the reboot but you’re lost in nostalgia if you think it’s a good idea to carry over AI, graphics and melee combat from the 90s to a game made now.
I remember being hooked on this game from the moment I found a demo copy of Thief 1 (pre-release) in a PC Gamer Magazine demo cd.
You should do “Rise and Fall of Army of Two” next.
it never rose in the first place.
The Volcanic Masochist A lot of people liked the first two. They weren’t the highest rated games, but the first two are still pretty well rated and were enjoyed for coop. Plus the covered the lost planet series and that series has a worse average reception than the army of two series.
Honestly I hate to sate it, but Hitman his been so successful for Square these days with the subsequent titles that followed Absolution, that I don't think they're concerned about a 5th Thief game anytime soon.
Oh i was just binging through this series during quarantine lmao
Im currently in the middle of thief 2
Mr. Kryster That’s cool 👍🏾
Lucky you! Makes me think back to the first time I played these games...
I actually loved Thief the reboot. It was the first stealth game I played.
I’ve only played the reboot, liked it quite a lot. The asylum was super creepy!
Strange how i loved the last Theif, finished it a few times, even once without killing or being noticed by anyone.
Jesus, LG’s Thief 3 would’ve been open-ended. Thief in an open-ended Skyrim/Red Dead Redemption world would be the greatest game ever
I'm surprised no mention of Garret's voice actor and the value of his contribution being a big factor in its success.
Thief was probably the best stealth series ever until....that reboot.
It still is. The reboot doesnt count.
@@mistertagomago7974
I am not even sure about that. Its like the Star Wars or Highlander sequels, you can ignore them all you want but it still got made and it still happened.
civilwarfare101 It did leave a similar taste in my mouth to Highlander 2 hahaha
@@Ammoniumbicarbonat
Or the Source and Rise of Skywalker.