The Reason You Feel Helpless. You Learned it: Jocko Underground 017
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- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2022
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Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles
Learned Helplessness.
Getting over an irrational fear of home invasion.
Any value in Fundamentals program in BJJ?
How hard should you enforce the mask-wearing rules at work as a leader.
Keeping Doctors and people in power accountable for misconduct.
The balance in life of understanding what you can’t control and not worrying about it and putting your efforts into the the things you CAN control, is winning.
Exactly.
Dude.
I started listening to Jocko years ago, and it only gets better.
In life, you need mentors, and he’s definitely one of mine.
We can’t solely rely on what our parents and our own experiences have taught us. We need people like Jocko.
Hoooyah!
Oorah. (I'm a civ about to go Army. Sorry if I scuffed it 😂)
can you imagine where you would be if you had only prescribed news agencies and approved youtube channels? The war is on your mind, and intelligence agencies and big governments of the world know this. Glad some people have found a way through so we don't become mindless drones.
cringe
Very thankful for this, I have a frontal lobe brain injury and have experienced that pull you down into depression almost my entire life. It gets VERY ugly and deadly at it's worst, thankfully I have studied multiple self defense/disciplines through out my life and believe in Christ otherwise I'd definitely be dead or in prison. "You're NEVER out of the fight".
Overcontrolling parents have this exact impact on their kids. The kids then end up never learning how to take control of themselves and you end up with the typical basement dweller mama's boy.
By overcontrolling, I don't mean just controlling.
I MEAN overcontrolling.
Where your parents know the name of each of your friends and decide what games you should play, what career you should pursue, what clothes you should wear.
A friend I knew had this weird form of agoraphobia where he couldn't leave the house without his parents in tow. And his parents STILL wouldn't stop controlling his life. When his mother passed away, it was a sad sight to watch him try to put his life together and he inevitably started abusing substance to cope with it because he didn't have his micromanaging GPS.
So, to all you future parents, do NOT make a wuss out of your kid. Let them make mistakes and let them learn from them. He has a life to live after you're dead and will be left stranded in the water without you otherwise.
This was me at 18. I had terrible social anxiety and depression. I felt uncomfortable walking out of the house because I thought people were watching me making fun of me (because I wasn't use to walking anywhere without my mom right next to me). Now at 26 I'm still anxious and somewhat depressed but doing significantly better. Wish I discovered Jocko at 18 and not 25.
@@felixf4378 Very proud of you, keep your chin and chest up :)
Day 31 of not f*€£ing it up!! This is great encouragement to stay sober. I'm in my late 30s and just found out my parents are splitting after 25 years. Shit man. I've been preaching this since I discovered E.O. in 2015. Thank you gents for being MEN and standing up for what's good.
Awesome video! There is something I learned recently. I have learned that "Never give up" isn't actually that great advice, you see "never give up" is great advice for many situations and many people, but there is a point where persistence becomes "beating a dead horse". I think there should be a better quote along the lines "Don't give up as long as you're seeing realistic progress".
Everything goes with a grain of salt, you also have to remember to apply the logic of doing the same thing and expecting a different out come being insanity. Never give up on the goal, but always be changing up your tactics and learning.
It really depends. When it comes to work, sometimes you might need to stay and.. "beat that dead horse" until the end of your contract. It can feel like a jail sentence but sometimes you might unexpectedly gain something out of it that you wouldn't have gained if you had jumped ship early on. The red lines are your health (physical and mental) and your dignity. The rest is a matter of resilience and outlasting the problems.
"don't quit on the goal, quit on the plan" is what I think about, you're not quitting on the overarching goal, but you quit on the plan if it obviously isn't working because if you keep doing something that's not working and expecting results then it's naive.
What if it's something that means the worth the world to you, should never give up because you are not seeing realistic progress?
Solid discussion topic, well done Gentleman
Thank you for your continuing service
The man's leader. There's more to getting your shit straight and others that may be better at helping getting your mind out of dispair. But once you get mentally healthy and stronger Jocko is the man to help get over the top and keep you there
I’ve noticed this very young playing football. If I did good one play I usually did better the next one and so on. If I started practice getting beat down the rest of the practice I got beat down more. Taught me young to leave the last play in the past and move on to the next one.
I needed this today.
This came in the nick of time. I was just journaling about learned helplessness.
I just read up on the Asch experiment now. A modification to the original experiment was dropping just *one* other actor in the group who was told to give the correct answer, when the other six still gave the wrong answer. The presence of just *one* other person not telling obvious lies dropped conformity down to 5%. Want to know how easy it is to impact the world on your own? That's how.
Jock willing, we learned something today.
This is valuable. It's something that you implicitly know but hearing it explicitly stated, with the examples (be they studies or stories or fables) help drive the point home.
Learned optimism is one of my favourite books.
That was well worth a listen..v interesting
I love these vids so much
Jocko I love you brother!
I also love when You and Charles do podcasts it's so entertaining to watch!
Felt like this with my finances and bills... decided I was tired of being the dog accepting the shocks and got after it. Picked up 2nd job and starting a side business....GET AFTER IT LETS GO
Hi. How you getting on now? Anything you have taken from this?
@@benjamjarmin doing good, just gotta get after it like Jocko says. Tired most days but making progress.
@@LOSisBEAST2 How are you negotiating time with family. I'm a new dad, always worked out but I see this business thing creeping on me like I'm gonna take the chance some day. Thanks for the reply brother, you the man
@@benjamjarmin It's a tough balancing act, I'd say hardest part is getting enough rest so you can put in quality time with the family and still perform well at work etc. In terms of family time, I put everything down and just focus on them.
Congrats on being a new dad! How old is your kid?
It's no problem, glad to help anyone.
Just did the same thing.
Now I have two cool jobs although I enjoy the side job more.
11:14 @Echo yeah. It is a spectrum and it's also domain-specific.
Like some people are amazing at business but feel desperately helpless about health/relationships etc.
Yeah I have been around those types
Thanks guys. Martin Seligman, Univ. of PA is indeed the psychologist you referred to. He also wrote a book- The Optimistic Child (Could just as well be the Optimistic Adult imho) and one key learned trait w/kids is persistence. Other stuff too, like is this permanent or temporary can help us bounce back. Thanks again.
Good point. Optimism is a great tool.
It feels like the world is running out of places where it doesn't suck.
get off social media if you havent already. get outside and talk to people if you can.
I just noticed that me & Echo are very similiar in behavior, personality & I bet like me he's a heck of a very good back up man to have too. Salute to you Echo.
*Jocko Willink is the Reluctant Leader we need.*
.....We know you've done enough, but your Nation needs you.
🇺🇸 *2024* 🦅
I think I was pulled down into a horrible spiral because I was listening to toxic advice from toxic people. I think I am ready to cut them out. I think I am finally done. Thank you very much for this clip. For your guidance and wisdom. What self help books do you recommend?
It took me many years to realize that I'm ultimately responsible for all the outcomes in my life. Blaming others for your own failures is self-deception.
Wow!
My boy got chewed out for a coughing attack😭🤣🤣
This video is such a coincidence! I was searching just yesterday and also a week ago whether there was such a discussion about feeling helpless and powerless to help yourself and others.
I am really struggling with this.
For a year already, I have been in circumstances which put me in a weaker position unable to actually defend myself and being treated like garbage.
First my neighbours decided to steal our new kitten and since my mother is a widow they thought they'd get away with it. I figured out it was them, tried asking them if by any chance it got in their yard and they went crazy. They even started calling all day long from early morning to late at night every 2-20 minutes.. Our house got burgled later and it was probably connected to them. At the same time they found some ex police officer and sent him to threaten my mother.
Then I got a new supervisor at my new traineeship who wanted to treat me like garbage- he used me to (almost) finish a tedious task he didn't want to do even though i was very sick with Covid and claimed credit for the lengthiest document while giving credit for the shortest to a team member who is a full time employee unlike me. I indirectly let our boss know that i did these (it was mostly my work minus the notes i had left to explain context as my supervisor had requested). Anyway, the supervisor started bullying me and trying to get rid of me by ignoring me, excluding me, turning the team against me and fostering an "us vs you" mentality while making me do either administrative or very much pointless tasks. He outsourced the research work although i had already completed 70% of it but he didnt wanted to hear about my results. Instead he got 50 or so other people who were already busy to work on it for 2-3 weeks while it had taken me 1-2 months.. I talked about being made to do chores while my work was ignored to our boss who probably chastised my supervisor because the guy never spoke to me again and referred to me as "pointless " and "insignificant" during a Skype call..
A bit after I finished that internship, my former chief died of cancer. It was some months after his diagnosis and I didn't even know about his illness because I was doing that internship..
Although, on each occasion people have pitied me and told me that I couldn't have done better, my confidence and belief in myself took a great hit as I was unable to really help anyone or myself.. I haven't been working since that internship ended and I'm only know beginning to somehow return back to normal life but I'm still somehow blaming myself.. My mind just couldn't "let all of this go" and move on as I used to be able to..
MEANINGWAVE EXISTS!!
Extreme Ownership is the answer for all your problems.
8:11 I thought the saying was incorrect too until I realized that the saying assumes tarting but getting up …
So if you’re assuming a default position of being down… then you start by getting up …
Then every time u get knocked down you get up. So it’s par for par plus the original time u got up. …
That's what sucks in college, the teachers think it's military like but hell no it's just tyrannical way but doesn't really teach you real discipline that's rewarding, it's just it really makes you so defeated that no matter what you do it'll suck
Edit: yeah you need that win, I learned it from Jordan Peterson's vid about what to do when you're depressed, eating of course produces serotonin which is a happy neurochem but it's also why lifting weights is so powerful
I love how Jocko is talking about how some people believe they’re helpless in such a non-judgemental way.
He didn’t label it as being “wrong” or “stupid”, and I think this is the way to encourage change in others as a leader.
I've used the technique of going down the rabbit hole but i have a traumatic brain injury and it's not for everyone. It's too find extra pieces of your puzzle but I have found the puzzle always gets bigger and bigger, I got Shipley goooood! Lol, Tin Man...
My entire family is built this way
Mine too.
the significance of how the 'learned helplessness' finding is abusively applied is MASSIVE. your own subjugation of self that you have rationalised to be the toughness, resilience etc that got you through buds etc are conscious counter effects too. exposure to these is not 'natural'. that they exist is a dysfunctional construct just as the experiment itself was.
think about it.
I work in a call center. Unfortunately there legit is no way out of this life other than opting out of life altogether.
are you allright?
3:52 The poor dogs embraced and excepted the suck. I hope that a:(hat was able to help those dog hurt the good thing again.
12:25 From Jordan Petersons book- he mentioned a similar scenario with lobsters. The experiment showed the winning Lobsters testosterone would increase and the losers would decrease
Yep…
When walking through an elephant camp, a man noticed that the elephants were only secured with a small rope that was tied around one ankle. He was confused and wondered why the elephants didn’t break free from the rope, as the elephants were certainly strong enough to do so.
He asked a trainer why the elephants didn’t try to break free, and the trainer responded;
"They use the same size rope for baby elephants all the way up to adulthood. Because they’re too small when they’re babies to break free from the rope, they grow up being conditioned that the rope is stronger than they are. As adults, they think the rope can still hold them, so they don’t try to fight it."
The man was amazed. These animals could at any time break free from their bonds but because they believed they couldn’t, they were stuck right where they were.
I wonder if its related to dopamine. I remember Andrew Huberman talking about how dopamine is not the pleasure molecule like most people think. its more like the motivation molecule. The thing that makes doing something feel worth it. Id be curious to see if learned helplessness can be reversed by increasing dopamine in the brain.
Interesting
@@julisinc5488 only because it feels good doing drugs or sex. But it's subjective whether it's good or not
@@julisinc5488 In what way do you mean?
this is exactly whats starting to happen to me...i am losinghope,...people are being abusive..they are on the attack...please help me
Hang in there
this learned helplessness effect is playing out in South Africa right now.. very sad..
Bro what’s with with your Jocko greens package only half fulll? I bought two and the same result
Life is a busy beaver, we are sticks, still wanting to be trees.-DW
I'm 52, my uncle was in spec op pilot Vietnam (actually Laos) , my dads friend (a Ranger in Vietnam) taught me how to shoot. Bad ass guys who had no ego, but mad skills. Now America is full of vets from Iraq-Afghan who are puffing out their chests, big beards, swearing they are Gods gift to manhood and tough as nails. I don't buy it, America is suffering from massively excessive egomania. It's out of control, and they are gear junkies, gotta have this and that tac gear to do anything. The old vets used what was on hand, they had the skill of adapting, improvising. I would say Vietnam was 5X as hard a war as the last wars, way more brutal, missions without support, no Green Zone McDonalds, out there alone in the jungle against a regular army (NVA). In my view our ego as a nation is going to be our downfall. We need to scale it back. I can fight and shoot, I had wrestling in high school, Muay Thai for 30 years, but kids these days see my on the street and think their couple of BJJ classes mean they can take me cause I am humble. I don't ooze ego so they think I am weak. There are many like me. Just check my channel and see my two vids, a carpenter is all I am. Proud of it to. To finish, get on Ed Calderon, ex Tijuana cop, a humble dude who is cutting edge, this guy is for real, he sees the future and knows more about knife fighting and how to survive than anybody in the US and he has some serious wisdom. Ed Calderon, I promise you this guy will make a good show.
Family members that gave up on life 20 years ago 🤦♂️
Steer clear that shit is contagious
My neck my back. My neck and my back.
Jocko just gave me an idea about a "shirt/jacket" style clothing or coat, that has a built in (small verison of course), parachute embedded inside the back....you know, IF you wanted to try and survive a plane crash ;) Yay...nah?? Haha, run with it, Origin USA!
I guess to was too stubborn or too stupid to accept harshness of reality.
I failed and fought then went after it again and again and again.
I took the math reagents exam like 4 times even though I didn't have to I think. Half the math department was grading my last exam and called me at home to tell me I passed with like a 70 and congratulated me.
Life has been that way ever since my youth. I've won some and lost some, but I never gave up on myself.
Again, maybe just too stubborn or too dumb I guess.
Tren cough ECHO!
Wow… down 6 up 7- down 9 up 12- down 6 up 12 again…
Insanity= doing the same thang & expecting different results…
Default helpless🤔hmmmmm
Will …. 😂hmmmm
Keep on keepin on Jocko n Echo…
- Outliars - a must read!
Level 9 coughing outburst...😉
i need a place to live..😢
That tren cough hitting😂
Weakness is Virtue
Wait.
But assuming you sleep, wouldn't getting up from that count as 1?
🤔
Fight vs flight.
So how does a person change from taught helplessness? And how do you help someone else change? Because our oppressive government has taught us helplessness. "It's just the way it is" ...every time we are oppressed.
Permits, school boards, regulations, etc that all reduce our freedoms. Our founding fathers wouldn't recognize us, while we talk of losing our freedoms as if it is a future possibility. We HAVE already lost our freedoms; what will we do about that?
I appreciate the studies and motivation Jocko, but if (for example) we get permits for every change to our own property, we are hypocrites.
Unless we resist against those training us to be subservient, it's all just talk.
🧤 4 🐕. Larry ⚡...... AkA T bone ; Power Unit. 🗽
is echo yellow?
Can we come up with a solution to make money without working? Seems like something everyone feels they can’t do anything about.
i dont have clinical depression...but i am depressed
Mr Willink how do you know what amount you can control? (Impactfactor zero to 1000%?) And how do you know the exact amount which makes you helpless (also zero to 1000%) . And how do you know you have the freedom (also zero to 1000%) and not living in a totalitarian state (also zero to 1000%) or a suboptimal state (only the rich can live well) or a personal situation that cant be changed (also zero to 1000%)??
Knocked down 6 get up 7 isn't wrong you just don't get it. The "7th time" is the first time you got up when you got up on your own without being knocked down first. Or alternatively that you have already decided to get up the next time and so have the mindset in opposition of the helplessness discussion here.
Which you could have learned in a Google search in the time you spent shitting on the proverb.
That's just shocking😃
But in the context of
A term as in say
Your duty time or mine or being on the clock
It's a determined time or status
You settle in and then make those decisions determined by that set term
Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing sometimes many things
To always be aware of your surroundings
Bad poetry is bad
@@jeffbrownstain
So Bad
It wasn't poetry
Nor meant to be😄
Now get back on that horse and ride soldier😀
@@bryanluntz1603 Use punctuation and don't write in poetic stanza if you don't want your words misinterpreted as such.
You only have yourself to blame.
@@jeffbrownstain
Would that help.
You.
dudes i was evicted....because i coughed? how insane...i put too much cayenne pepper in my drink...
talk your way out of responsibility...right...talking points dont give you control...
you get beaten down so much exactly whats going on with me.....i am so discouraged..it is abuse! i tell you im telling the truth
Classic conditioning. 🤔
7 out of 8 answer wrong, I've always got to be the smart arse...believing in yourself is lonely sometimes.
When he says shocking dogs he means shocking people. Corrupt military people shock targets to try to make them move. They torture me with electro magnetic pulses because they are pathetic.
🤙🏾🇺🇸🍄
@Elliot
They're crazy animals
@Elliot
Psilocybin
@@bryanluntz1603 Psilocybin says
@@sprocastersprocaster 🏁
@@bryanluntz1603 🎭
Bro u have a wrong information about sadam hosin
Echo has that tren cough. 💪
I miss tren.... just saying
@@bakionigeri6414 everyone misses it when they're not on it anymore.
Hello.
I dig that you are so hardcore,.....
You made him start the whole podcast over.. lulz.
Gimmie a SEC.
Good luck.
I’ve only ever felt hopeless one time and it was when I was in prison I got into a fight and I was by myself in isolation for 4 monthes it was horrible
@Elliot let’s just say it changed me never been the same and I’ve never been in trouble again since I got out in 2014 and I’m a productive member of society now
@Elliot I’m from south central Los Angeles in america we don’t have those programs here … I mean they have homeboy industries but it’s hard to find a spot with them cus there’s so many people there
This is exactly what happens to Cubans. We know I'd bad. The government is the cause. We hungry. Desperate. But still we say. We can't do nothing about it.
Rats in tube learning that losing is nothing to fear, after all the scientists didn't ask the the rats what they want lol
You're right, 1776 must commence again
Nah.
Edgy
It was a miracle. How do we reproduce that effect ?
dying from diarreah?
⚠️ the problem is, the good guys are SO complacent and soft anymore
Good! Pick up the phone and start dialing! I want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich!
*intense mouth breathing*
I unsubscribed from most prepping channels because all they do is make videos to scare people and also scam them into buying their products.
Just keep on trucking
First
if you have money and good looks then you will have no helplessness....
Absolutely not true
why does he talk like a liberal starbucks cashier in the beginning
😏👉💪
i havent seen my children....i havent seen my children.....you have beaten me down.....yes.....they break you down ...lack of community lack of hopelessness...because of their ethnicity....people suck...
Keep talking about ownership while we loose are country
*Our
You're not losing it, it's being stolen. Do something.
Russian troll trying to whip up some MAGAts here for another jan 6 insurrection
I’m suspecting that we will see a few states become sovereign zones in coming years. I think it will be Texas and Florida first. A few states will remove themselves from federal oversight and offer one way tickets out to people whom don’t agree. I don’t advocate for rebellion, rather a peaceful decentralization and deregulation.
@@arikaGME We're all Americans, dont get pushed into division by the Russians:
Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements - extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
they stole my extra virian itailian olive oil that i just bought .....they are breking into my room! please stop them
Are you ok ? Your comments worrie me...who are they ?
Did you get the olive oil back?
I could fix the windows. I could fix the roof. I could kill the Rooster. I could kill the cats. But I'm that asshole that likes to watch people suffer. When people put you down because they don't think like you. It's not your mind that helps you get up because you were never down in the first place. People only think they knock you down. Once again that's their intention of control, dominance and power. I haven't yet seen a man or a woman I respect enough to let than have that power over me. Everyone's Dead. I'm not staying in this bunker and I'm NOT using their water. The offshore Captain is taking me out for a real coffee. He won't drink this coffee either. 👍
first.
Liar
hate crimes is real....too much generalizing talk.....helplessness is good.....learn to trust...
Nihilism. And it's actually very addictive
Republicans been telling me I’m helpless. They keep saying non-whites will come into the country and take my job and my house and my 401k….. HELP!!!! Jk I’m nonpunk