The Scandalous History of the Tuxedo
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- The tuxedo had a strange and rather controversial start in the 19th century, even before it gained its popular name. Moving from the Prince of Wales to "dudes" getting kicked out of parties for wearing the casual style, it threatened to completely up-end decades of established formal fashion. The resistance to the style was strong, but the trend was stronger. It not only brought with it a new opportunity for formal attire, but a lasting impact on how we divide our event etiquette. Over 150 years later, almost nothing has changed about the tuxedo- except the name.
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00:00 Etiquette for Dress
02:41 Prince Albert & the Smoking Jacket
05:31 Tuxedo Park Dudes
09:27 Frog Tail Woes
11:46 Dinner Jacket
13:23 Where to Wear
15:21 Black v. White Tie
18:17 Skirts & Shrimp Variations 
Хобби
I just can't stop imagining a 60 year old man in the 1880s complaining "What are these 'dudes' the youth is talking about ? In my time, we called them 'dandy', and I remember my grandfather calling them 'macaronis' ! These young people and their new slang !"
Im just reading The Forsyte Sage and the character is complaining about the modern slang of "coquette"
How language evolves
@piccalillipit9211 I presume, it's due to French
Shocked, scandalized! I've never seen dude used in the 19th century. LOL!
@@amymyers5503 Me neither ! I only learned today that the word originated from the late 19th century
@@Dont_Tell_Anyone_Its_MeAlso where the “dude ranch” originated. Rich idle guys coming to pretend to be cowboys for a week.
If a gentleman’s tuxedo looks slightly out of date that’s how you know he owns it. If it’s the latest style it is rented. Or so I was told 50 years ago.
Very good point!
My husband and I perform music from the 1920s on stage. He found a tuxedo at a St. Vincent de Paul thrift shop for $25 when we first started out, so now we perform in tux and gown. He wore the first tuxedo so much that his ukulele wore out the front edge of the coat. He does have a tailcoat as well, but he has now found a second not quite as spiffy daytime tux.
I am sure that there was a podcast episode of Dressed about tuxedos, and I swear, they said that it had to have a satin stripe down the side of the pants as well as satin lapels.
@@ColorJoyLynnHWhat a delight!!!
@@ColorJoyLynnH That was how it worked in the 1980s when I was last worrying about prom, weddings, etc.
When Nicole mentions how gentlemen ended up in the same outfit as waiters, I immediately flashed on a scene from Downton Abbey where Earl Robert appears for the evening in black tie (instead of the usual white tie) and the Dowager Duchess turns to him asking for a drink, but then realizing it's her son, says "oh, I thought you were a servant".
This also features in a detective story - The Queer Feet by Gk Chesterton - where the criminal infiltrates a formal dinner to make a robbery. He knows that the gentlemen will think he is a waiter and the waiters will think he is a gentleman, but Father brown catches him with an unseen thread
ruclips.net/video/paP1RFjgElg/видео.htmlsi=6TzhC6CD5sF6cnSJ
Doesn't James Bond wear tuxes?
@JenInOz this is where my mind goes to ! Born in 1962, & Bond was the "Be All/End All" of sexy sophistication!!!!
I was quite surprised to hear her say they are LESS formal ! To me, tail coats are ancient garb worn mostly by Vampires! Lol 😁
I also thought of this, lol. I still struggle to follow all the rules about the coats, etc and I’ve rewatched the series la t times 😂
Perfect 30 Rock quote for this video:
"Why are you wearing a tux?"
"It's after 6; what am I, a farmer?"
"Too suggestive of luxurious dissipation"...I love that.
I think it's brilliant. And of course, looks that suggest luxurious dissipation are always excellent.
The shrimp coat reminds me of an old picture of my dad when he was in the Knights of Columbus. Imagine a 20-something red-headed man all in pink satin, complete with dress sword and plumed hat.
Is your dad the Doctor?
I will never stop imagining it.
Thank you for that hilarious image 🙏😊
Pure macaroni. I love it.
🤣
I desperately want to see someone make a shrimp coat. Dear God I'm begging for literally anyone to document themselves making and wearing a shrimp coat.
The only thing that prevents me from looking for pink wool right now is the fact that I can't really pull off neither tuxedos nor loud colours. But "shrimp coat" is tempting.
Personally, I'ld just make it look like an ACTUAL shrimp & enjoy the reactions !
You can do it and I believe in you. There is a shrimp pink that works and we will find it 😂😂😂.
In 1965 when my boyfriend and I were planning to go to prom, he informed me that his tuxedo jacket was a copper colored brocade with traditional black pants. I sighed. Then he informed me that he planned to wear his Chuck Taylor purple tennis shoes with the outfit! I sighed and almost cried, but I think his mother had the last word! His best friend wore a dark green brocade jacket but I don't think anyone cared! The priests may have been shocked but they were more shocked when someone told the I was a public school girl (and Jewish and up for prom queen) !
… imagining a party of shrimps in semi-formal coats …
I've seen something similar with those obnoxious printed suits from Kohl's. It is indeed a sight
and then to have it crashed by a flock of flamingos!
While I cannot comment on the history of "le smoking", I can tell you that waaaaay back in the early 1940s when I was going to get fitted for my first "dinner jacket" my father advised me to get a very dark navy blue and NOT a black suit - the blue photographed as black in the newspapers, the black tended to look washed out and gray in print. He also warned that if he ever saw me in a tux before 6:00 he would assume that I was just on my way home from the evening before....................
PS of course I was referring to photographs in newspapers being printed in black & white. I have no idea how that advice would translate to newspaper photographs today.................say, in Today
I was so hoping you'd talk about the 1970's tuxedo with the ruffled shirt! My parents were married in the late 70's, and for their wedding, my dad and groomsmen all wore that same tuxedo you showed, but in light gray, and each of the groomsmen had a different pastel color for their ruffled shirts. It was fabulous.
"tailcoats are modernly the formal of formal" me, with a bunch of designs with tailcoats based on bug wings
Cool 😎 🐛 🐛 🐛 🐛 🐛 🐛
Hell yeah!
Well, this explains Tuxedo Mask and his attack in Sailor Moon ("la smoking bomber!")
Wow. From the vaults! 👍
OMG this is tickling a very vague memory somewhere locked in my brain, I'm gonna have to tease it out or it's gonna drive me nuts. Thank you! (sincerely though! I haven't thought of Sailor Moon in ages, happy to look it up and get smacked in the face by the nostalgia two-by-four!)
@@becauseimafan be careful looking, as there has been at least one remake and it may have changed things.
My sister's wedding had the powder blue tuxes with ruffled shirts, and pale yellow or pale blue bridesmaids dresses. I love looking back at the pictures.
In the 1980's in Sweden at the University the tailcoat was worn at more formal dances when the women wore floorlong gowns as now at the Nobel dinner. When a smoking as we still call it was worn women wore kneelong dresses i.e. cocktaildresses. The dresscode was given on the invitation as tailcoat, smoking or suit. Love all your videos!
Ahh, the lyrics to Stepping Out With My Baby* make more sense: "in my top hat, my white tie and my tails". So that would be much more formal than a tux.
*edited, originally said Putting On The Ritz
I believe you're mixing up two similar songs, both popularized by Fred Astaire: "Puttin' on the Ritz" and "Top Hat"
"Puttin' on the Ritz" (1930)
If you're blue, and you don't know where to go to
Why don't you go where fashion sits?
Puttin' on the Ritz
Different types who wear a day coat
Pants with stripes and cutaway coat, perfect fits
Puttin' on the Ritz
"Top Hat, White Tie, and Tails" (1935)
I just got an invitation through the mails
"Your presence requested this evening
It's formal, a top hat, a white tie and tails"
Nothing now could take the wind out of my sails
Because I'm invited to step out this evening
With top hat and white tie and tails
No judgement; they're similar songs, from only a few years apart, by the same singer. Just thought I'd point out which is which.
@@TSIRKLAND I looked up what I was remembering, and it's a third song altogether! Stepping Out With My Baby by Irving Berlin. "There'll be smooth sailin' 'cause I'm trimmin' my sails
With my top hat, my white tie and my tails"
Thank you for the encouragement to look it up.
@@briefisbest and Fred Astaire did that one too!
My best friend got married in 1977 and I wore that light blue tux with the black trim and ruffles. Many years later he mentioned that it looked like something from an Austin Powers movie. He wasn't too far off lol.
I graduated from high school in 1974. The photographer who was contracted to do all of the graduating class portraits for our year book had a yellow feather boa or a black satin 'scarf' for all the girls to achieve an off the shoulder 'formal' effect for head shots. But, for the guys, it was a powder blue 'tux' jacket with dark blue velvet trim and a white ruffled shirt with blue stitching to fancy up the ruffles. I considered rebellion, but was just so tired of being the rebel for the entire school, so I adopted an attitude of irony and refused to get the prescribed photo - and was the only female in my class whose head shot was taken in my prom dress - by another photographer! I just could not accept the sea of pale blue and yellow feathers! P.S. My prom dress was awful.
In Australia we also call it a tuxedo. though we use the term to refer to the entire outfit, specifying "tuxedo jacket" if necessary.
The interesting thing is that the black bow tie was (and is) always worn with Army Mess Uniform, the military equivalent to both black and white tie which seems to come from how throughout the regency period British army uniforms were always worn with black stocks/cravats compared to the white cravat worn by civilian gents for formal events
*IM A SEMI PROFESSIONAL* bespoke tailor of mens historical suits 1890 - 1940 so this is of great interest to me.
If people are wanting pattern drafting instructions look for the free PDF of J P Thornton's "The Sectional System of Gentlemen's Garment Cutting" from 1900
Thank you for the resource!
Thanks for the rec!
@@kaworunagisa4009 Ill just add - cos it might not be obvious if you are not used to drafting from historical books:
Breast = chest
All measurements are 1/2 the taken measurement so when it says "Breast 20 inches" That means a 40" chest measurement - cos yo are doing half a body
"Closing seam" on trousers is the back seam
And the fashion for trousers at this time was the "full wedgie" but between the buttocks so the seat seam is a / not a J - if yo want a modern fit on the but then change this to a J or follow the drafting in "The Schulman system of Garment Cutting"
and finally
THE PATTERN IS NET OF SEAM ALLOWANCE - you have to add 1/2 or as I do 5/8th Inch seam allowance AND vents AND cuff etc to these patterns.
As a European I just decimalise the imperial so take 1.3rd the brest [20/3 = 6.66] add 1 and 1/4" [6.66 + 1.25 = 7.91] so thats 7. 9 or 7 and 9/10ths which is close enough to 7 7/8ths that it does not matter.
GOOD LOOK - drafting is easy once you get the hang of it.
@@kaworunagisa4009 Ill just add - cos it might not be obvious if you are not used to drafting from historical books:
Bre4st = chest
All measurements are 1/2 the taken measurement so when it says "Breast 20 inches" That means a 40" chest measurement - cos yo are doing half a body
"Closing seam" on trousers is the back seam
And the fashion for trousers at this time was the "full wedgie" but between the buttocks so the seat seam is a / not a J - if yo want a modern fit on the but then change this to a J
and finally
THE PATTERN IS NET OF SEAM ALLOWANCE - you have to add 1/2 or as I do 5/8th Inch seam allowance AND vents AND cuff etc to these patterns.
As a European I just decimalise the imperial so take 1.3rd the brest [20/3 = 6.66] add 1 and 1/4" [6.66 + 1.25 = 7.91] so thats 7. 9 or 7 and 9/10ths which is close enough to 7 7/8ths that it does not matter.
GOOD LOOK
@@piccalillipit9211 oh my! That rear seam as a straight edge (A shape) is a choice! Good grief! 😂 Thank you so much for the clarification
12:10 a Brit here, Cowes is a town on the Isle of Wight a fashionable and favourite holiday destination of Queen Victoria. The Isle of Wight is a small isle of the south coast
Famous for causing the First Work War when the Keiser wore the wrong shoes
@@piccalillipit9211 Vat ist rung viv mein jackboots, dear Kusinen ?
I always find Americans calling small towns "cities" to be very quaint.
My dad wore a little light blue tuxedo to his parents wedding when he was like 3. It was very 70's and adorable. The examples you showed from the 70's were very similar to it.
when my parents married in 1951, my dad wore a white tuxedo jacket, black slacks and a black bow tie. I don't know if that was because they married in June in Hot Springs, Arkansas (warm weather?)
@@stephaniecowans3646 My parents married in Philadelphia May 1955, and the men wore the exact same as your dad, with a black cummerbund. As a child, I remember looking at the pictures and thinking the black triangle that showed above the jacket closure looked very odd, as if their pants came up too high. But it is pictured that way(19:25) in the video near the end, so I guess it was a fashion.
@maryloumawson6006 ooh, I'm pretty sure my Dad had on a black cummerbund, but since his coat was buttoned, I don't remember seeing it in the photo as they came down the aisle after the "I Do's"
1976 - I went to a High school Prom (my boyfriend was a senior, I a freshman) & my boyfriend rented a powder blue tux with dark blue velvet stripe down the leg, cuffs & collar.
I love tuxes in wild colors, the dudes got bored and we got to see a bunch of crazy stuff
This is so excellent. Thank you.
I went to prom in 1976. He wore a tux with ruffles and it was aqua. I sewed a dress to match.
I went to prom in 78, and his tux was powder blue ...my dress matched in chiffon with a capelet .... so long ago
Ahh yes, the powder blue tuxedo, which my dad wore at his wedding, along with hair past his shoulders....
No mention of 007 in the white tuxedo in the 60s?
Damn......
i always thought tuxedos were super formal and fancy and was surprised to read that it was considered a less formal thing to wear...but then i saw on downton abbey violet sees her son in what looks like a tuxedo and says "why aren't you dressed?(for dinner)" and then mistakes him for a waiter 🙂 oh to see the world from such alien mind
[strange to imagine that guy being kicked out for wearing a tuxedo heh]
Can you even imagine dressing up that much just to go to a casual little event or like visit a friend? That seems so over the top now.
ooops! I mentioned in my other comment that the Dowager Duchess mistook her son as a "servant", but you're right, she thought he was a "waiter".
I was thinking of that scene for half of the video.
@@stephaniecowans3646 honestly, I think servant is probably the word that she would have used, if she was real. Eating in restaurants wasn't something that women of her age and class would have done much.
@@aliciaf1055 Except that the servants would be wearing tails, so she certainly wouldn't mistake them for waiters (who would also be wearing tails.) I think she was assuming waiters in a club would wear black tie. Also, she was teasing Robert - she also at one point referred to him in black tie as "rompers."
One thing I've run across with respect to men's formal wear is that sometime in the 'teens tuxedo trousers acquired a stripe of silk braid, or satin and evening dress trousers simultaneously acquired a second such stripe. I wouldn't be surprised to find that evening dress got its first stripe as a way to further distinguish it from the tuxedo, but that remains a hypothesis. The appropriate hat for a tuxedo seems to have evolved from a quickly rejected top hat to a derby (including the short-lived grosgrain version) to the Homburg that remains appropriate today. Confusingly, pre-WWI any soft fur felt hat could be referred to as an Alpine, so such references could just as well refer to a Homburg or a Fedora as to what we would call an Alpine.
On the one hand, I appreciate the historical research and the insight about how the sartorial culture of extremely wealthy people five to seven (edit) generations ago reflects on their culture, and to some degree, ours. On the other hand, it sounds like a hideously complex pain in the ass to keep track of all these rules, and I’m painfully aware that it would be used to exclude and denigrate people who didn’t have the money to maintain a large wardrobe with all these variables. In our current moment with extreme wealth inequality, it’s not something I would want to emulate today.
You just summed up classism.
@@mystic_mimi21 yep. That’s what I’m saying.
If anything, it was the opposite - codified menswear rose in the 19th century replacing the rather more intuition and fashion based delineations that existed prior, in large part due to the growth of the middle class and the rise of new money industrialists. Rules could be (and were) written down, and could be easily consulted, and remained fixed with only the smallest alterations (right up to the present day) - simply put, if you had the money, you could buy the correct thing from a tailor (or off the peg), and know when and how to wear it. The codification also did away with the more expensive elements - no more gold brocade, silver buckles, etc. The fact that it was proving difficult to distinguish servants from guest rather speaks to the class breakdown that this shift reflected.
@@gonvillebromhead2865 I understand the point you’re making that it got better over time; I don’t think the video really covered that enough to draw that conclusion and I don’t have the background to assert either way. I don’t know if you have that background but we don’t have sufficient evidence here in the video or the comments to support or refute it.
Either way, I wasn’t making any assertions that it did or didn’t get better over time. There’s no stage in this process that sounds good for the poor. As you yourself said, at best one could be included, “if you had the money.” Exactly that.
@@gonvillebromhead2865this is true, however the slightest mistake in your dress or manners would class you as nouveau riche and get you ostracized. I remember in the mid 60s I was invited for dinner with my new boyfriend's British family. I made the mistake of cutting my bread roll instead of tearing it. They looked down their nose at me as dumb immigrant who was uncouth for the rest of the time we were dating, I was never invited back.
Hi, greetings great video. I'm old enough to remember men wearing those powder blue tuxes in the 70s. I love powder blue but not on a man's tux. I thought it ugly as young child then, that opinion has not changed.
I do miss these social rules. I remarked while at dinner in London with my friend how poorly or lazily in my opinion men dress in the evening. I saw so many men on a night out wearing unironed t shirts or maybe a button down shirt, jeans and tatty trainers when the ladies they are with are dressed up. I find it rather insulting how little effort men can get away with vs women. I always think of Cher in Clueless. It isn’t about wealth but effort in my opinion. My Autistic brain loves rules and I have set clothes for certain occasions like clothes I wear in my house, outside clothes, clothes for the food shop which are less formal, then clothes for brunch out or the pub, clothes for dining out, clothes for bed, clothes for excerise etc
I was at a wedding once and everybody else was wearing at the very least a nice jacket over a button up shirt and straight trousers... And in walks one dude wearing blue jeans, T-shirt and *baseball cap* which he then proceeded to keep on. I think he may have been wearing sneakers, too. Probably all designer and overpriced, but I remain mad about it to this day! I was doing photo portraits and event photos so I obsessed over an outfit that gave me mobility but was sufficiently dressy. Wore uncomfortable but neat shoes, too.
I am ND as well and am very concerned with wearing the correct or at least respectful thing.
I prefer not to think of them as "rules". It's about showing respect for the company you will be meeting, and putting yourself in the right frame of mind for the event.
If my date (male or female) showed up in a tee shirt and no jacket I would not be mortified by a breach of etiquette, I would feel disrespected and they would no longer be my date. Like you said, it's about making an effort to look good. At least put a blazer on over your daytime tee or polo. I also apply this to women's clothing with no collar too: so sundresses, most rompers etc. I do think a collared shirt and jeans is acceptable for a casual date, especially if accessorized appropriately with either a tie of some description or a necklace (wearing a collar with nothing just looks weird on my opinion).
I wore tails in a play once, but otherwise the only time I've EVER seen them worn in real life was when I was a debutante. Certain people at the event had to wear them, but all the other men were in tuxedos.
I was looking for a coat to go over a jacket but I'm a woman with strong shoulders and big boobs. I found a tail coat in a very lovely wool for $30 at an antique store and it fit beautifully around my shoulders and since it's open at the waist it didn't bind and it looked amazing. The wedding was during the daytime in Florida and it was 80° and then it was going to be in the '50s at night for the reception.
My husband's one request for his wedding suit was that he get to wear a tailcoat! 🤭 He was beaming and looked RATHER dashing.
I have a (vintage) tailcoat that I love wearing of an evening when it’s chilly but not cold, for any kind of event… It works with trousers, a tea dress, an a line skirt… and the lapels are terrific for a selection of vintage brooches.
shrimp coat... my immediate impression was 'teddy boy frock coat!' it's not, but it is damn close. the dark blue trim only emphasised the similarity.
such an enjoyable video NIcole. I learned so much and had oh so many questions answered. delicious as always! thank you!
Ah yes, my father wore a powder blue tuxedo nearly identical to the one you showed for my parents' wedding in the late 1970s. And then my husband wore a cobalt blue tuxedo jacket with black lapels and black pants for our wedding. The 19th century style guides would be scandalized! Looking forward to your magenta masterpiece!
I'm not shocked by the choice of colours but rather by the fact they wore tuxedos for the weddings (unless the ceremonies took place after 6 pm).
My first (women's) business interview suit was cobalt blue with black lapels and a black pencil skirt (in wool crepe) from Nordstrom. I wore that suit for 20 years until I wasn't a size 8 any more. I even got the skirt repaired after I dropped an X-Acto knife on it in the graphics department.
When we got to the part about black vs white ties, I kept thinking about that scene in Top Hat where a man and his valet fall out over ties for evening.
Lies! Everyone knows tuxedos were designed to imitate nature's most soigné creature, the tuxedo cat
... and I thought it would be the penguin! 🐧🐧🐧
@@d.p.89"Peng-gwin" as Benedict Cumberbatch would say !
As someone who is owned by a tuxie, I can only agree. 🐈⬛
Honestly, the “shrimp coat” sounds super fabulous. I’m pretty sure they wore blue tuxedos at my parent’s wedding in 1970, lol. I’m looking forward to seeing the creation of your tuxedo coat very much! Take care.
Yep, my parents got married in 1974 with all the men in baby blue tuxedos, The photos are hilarious.
Now I understand why Jack said, "It's after 6. What am I, a farmer?" since they were specifically for after 6pm. I'm surprised that clip didn't make it in somewhere.
My dad and his groomsmen wore powder blue tuxedos for his wedding. I think it was very late 1970s or very early 1980s.
I'm not shocked by the choice of colour but rather by the fact that they wore tuxedos at the wedding (unless the ceremony took place after 6 pm).
Oh hey, formal menswear! Just in time for my falling into the evening wear rabbithole. Vintage Burche has a white tie video to complement your black tie one. I can’t wait for the sewing video!
SHRIMP COAT
With great love in my heart, i must mention The Canadian Tuxedo, aka Double Denim. Curiously, this look has recently been adopted for the kits of cycling team Alpecin-Deceuninck. Also, those ruffled shirts can be a separate button-on to give the shirts more versatility. Can't wait to your new tuxedo, Nicole!🌈👑🌈
Shrimp coat lol 😂. I think of powder pink tux's as pink panther suits personally. My dads going to buy a tux this year - I'll tell him about the 'original' tux jacket being navy!
Tuxedo = Marlene Dietrich 🖤
In Sweden the tux is called a ”Smoking” too.
Confusing since it sounds like a smoking jacket.
….not that i know anyone who owns a smoking jacket.
In some lodges a black vest is worn with tail coat instead of a white one here.
The bow tie stays white though.
Formal day wear is uncommon here.
If you use Google translate and write ”morning dress” you get the Swedish word for a female morning gown. 😂
The term used would be ”jackett”, and for tail coat ”frack”.
I guess renting formal wear in a foregn country can become an adventure.
In my city of studies tailcoats are a common sight; Usually a man in his young 20-ies, wearing a cheap and ill-fitted tailcoat while riding a rickety bicycle wobbling ower the cobblestones, probably already pre-drunk in order to not spend too much money at the event.
1:30 I just love the picture of the two very formal looking individuals appearing arm in arm, with the light suit offering an arm to the dark suit.
Such a great image.
I wore my dad’s tailcoat for a few occasions- I loved it. Wish it still fit
What a coincidence, I actually just finished assembling all the parts for a Victorian inspired tuxedo.
That magenta raspberry color at the end--I love it!!!
The frock coat originated as a fairly casual coat, but was considered the epitome of formal daywear by the early 20th century as the sack coat became more and more common (Victoria’s Christening, a very subdued affair back then without much pomp or circumstance, was attended with the men mostly in their frock coats. But Signing the armistice that ended WW1 was done in frock coats and top hats.)
Another Canadian here to say we call it a tux, short for tuxedo🙃
I'm from Massachusetts, and I usually hear it shortened to tux more often than not.
I never thought of tuxedo and dinner jacket being interchangeable terms. The tuxedo (coat and trousers) is black or occasionally navy blue. If the coat is white or some other color obviously lighter than the trousers, it is a slightly less formal dinner jacket.
Hiya, I think the tuxedo collar references are to that specific style of shawl collar that came out with tuxedos, the one that goes straight down then curves in quite abruptly. I love it.
Looking forward to seeing your make!
Shrimp coat?!?? I cannot unsee a shrimp wearing a tuxedo jacket! and text surrounding it:
"you're telling me
a shrimp
wore this coat??"
😂
Looking forward to the upcoming videos of your project! I always love your sewing planning and construction videos, and the dives into the history ones too! 🤩
Just, shrimp coat? I can't get over it🤣
I also thought that the tuxedo was the height of formality until my mom attended Harvard graduation and said that some people (if you weren't wearing academic robes) had to wear "morning dress". "What are they mourning?" "No, no, morning dress. Pearl gray tailcoat."
This is fascinating, but also confusing because it sounds as though a tuxedo only refers to a particular kind of coat/jacket. Is that just historically or is that also the modern definition? Because I’ve always thought a tuxedo is comprised of a particular style of coat plus a certain style of matching pants/trousers that distinguishes it from a suit which is also a matching set of a coat and pants which distinguishes it from a sports coat which is just a dress coat that doesn’t come with matching pants. Is that not true? If it’s not then what’s the definitive differences between tuxedo, suit, and sports coats?
I can't wait to see you construct this piece! 😁❤️
I went to high school in Tuxedo and I’ve had people go “yeah right” until I explain that the tuxedo was named after Tuxedo Park. It’s less common now because more people are familiar with the area due to the Renaissance Fair and apple picking.
The buttons on James Brown Potter's "dress sack" are epic! I love them. @6:56
The story I heard about the name tuxedo centered about a half-dozen or so rich young men in Tuxedo who didn't want to wear long tailcoats in summer, so they cut off the tails to their coats, to much scandal.
When I was growing up (1960s and 70s), "Black tie" and "White tie" were still in use, as their synonyms "semi-formal" and "formal". In summer, a black tuxedo jacket could be replaced with a white "dinner jacket". (In the US at that time, a dinner jacket was specifically that white summer semiformal jacket.) A tuxedo was worn with a pleated (or in the seventies and early eighties, ruffled) shirt which was properly closed with studs and cuff links. (The shirts were sometimes sold with plain buttons on a strip of two tape so the buyer could get an idea of how it would look.) Tuxedo-style shirts which cannot accept studs and links are definitely down-market. The tuxedo was also worn with a tie and cummerbund, which were sold as a matching set. (In some cases, the tuxedo pant's stripe would match the tie and cummerbund). Women's dresses would be of the appropriate length for the hour: "street length" (according to current fashion) for daylight hours, "cocktail length" (mid-calf) between 5 and 8 pm, and full length (ankle or longer, "gowns") for affairs that continued past 8 pm.
"White tie" is generally a gray morning coat before 5pm, and a black cut-away coat after. Both worn with a white plastron (fake vest/waistcoat).
Today, when my friends mark "semiformal" on an invitation, they mean for men to wear business suits and women, evening attire (bring out your sequins and lamés). They think tuxedos are "formal wear". Then again, most of the time they have to go somewhere that specializes in "men's formal wear" to find even the most down-market tuxedo...
FWIW, for many years my "go-to" formal wear was a white shawl-collared cotton sateen tuxedo-style jacked and ankle-length black silk satin circular skirt with tuxedo stitching along the side seams, with a dressy top...
I can’t wait until you need a seersucker! I have failed at finding a pattern for me to learn to make.
During the pandemic i've read/looked through few weekly fashion/literature womens papers that were coming out in Poland, and while watching this i remembered that in one issue there was a brief article/note for a good idea for a present for your husband , and it went about this evening jacket that is novel enough that your husband to probably not to have one but neat enough for him to find it usefull when going out with his pals. and the description of the garment kinda matched what you described in the video. Though, I cant give the exact year/source, cause i've read through anything from years 1880-94 and i only remebered this little article cause i found it amusing.
My brother and sister in law had an Evening Wedding in August and went for White Tux and tails for the men. Looked very nice.
That was 1979.
I am looking forward to your colorful tuxedo video! I would love a deeper dive into the collar shape. I feel like some tuxedos looked more like dressy sack coats, where others were more rounded at the bottom of the placket? I need to go do some reading to truly get the difference.
Very interesting! As an English woman in my sixties, I was brought up with the terminology that you mentioned, that an invitation would have written on it either ‘black tie’, to denote the dinner jacket, or ‘white tie’ with a long frock coat and white waistcoat for the most formal evening events, but I have noticed lately that your American word ‘tuxedo’ is being used here more and more - and why not?!
Fantastic video as usual the info you share is great can’t wait for the next one , thank you hunny 😎😎😎😎
My boyfriend wore the powder blue (polyester?) tux trimmed with black and the ruffled shirt when he took me to his senior prom in 1974. In 1975, at my senior prom, he wore a black crushed velvet tux with a blood red ruffled shirt. We were icons of fashion. 😅
There could be a correlation between the reduced popularity of the tailed coat and the phrase "to ride on someone else's coattails." Just a thought
Now that I KNOW “Shrimp Coat” was a thing, how can I NOT make myself one?!?
You know, as fascinating as I find all of this to be and as delicious as the garments look, I am so glad to be able to be utterly slovenly (perhaps even slatternish?!) in my tank top and shorts on this 90-degree day in a house without air conditioning.
This is so interesting, particularly the names. Here in Germany, we use the English term "Smoking" for the black or dark suit you would call a tuxedo ("Er trägt einen Smoking"), but the English term "Dinner Jacket" for the white or ivory version worn with the Smoking pants and black bow tie.
I'm very lucky that the men in my family are all short. When I was at university in London in the mid noughties I used to wear my great grandfather's dinner jacket (tuxedo jacket) with my dad's dinner suit trousers to parties and night clubs. Thank you for this video it's made me very nostalgic! Can't wait to see what your own tux looks like.
Great video! As someone who enjoys menswear and the history of same, I had a whale of a time watching this. If memory serves, a tuxedo also has more flexibility in the choice of fabric than a tailcoat. Yes, it's possible to have one made in wool barathea, but mohair is also an option. The white (really weathered cream) jacket is my partner's favorite iteration of the dinner jacket; I had to tell him it was always meant for warmer weather or warmer climates or both. Personally I have had a yen for the somewhat rarer midnight blue tuxedo for ages--just as elegant as black, maybe more so, and it has dash to spare.
As always, thank you so very much for your entertaining and enlightening work...
Good video. The dinner suit is alive and well. I just received a MTM dinner suit from my tailor in London, Redmayne. Midnight barathea 10.5oz, shawl grosgrain lapels, single linked button closure, double vented. Had it made for a cruise the Mrs and me are going on this summer. Highly recommend Redmayne for any gentlemen needing tailoring, they travel regularly to the States.
it's impressive the speed you put out well researched and interesting videos, I hope you are taking good care of yourself
King of the Dudes just conjures up an image of a slightly stoned guy in a bathrobe and plastic crown wandering around NYC.
I mean, make it a smoking jacket and some poor debutants actual tiara/crown and that seems likely to have happened at some point.
"The Dude Abides."
Omg I love a Fuchsia/ magenta wool? melton?
My goodness fashion was complex back then, but so very elegant. Have you got a new camera? The picture quality is amazing.
PS - LOVE the fuschia of your next project!
Fascinating. I kept picturing Downton Abbey's take on this while watching your video. 🦋👩🦰
I had a question come to mind while watching this. Why were there both night and day formal wear? When I think about clothing in current times I just think about different levels of formality but when I see things about historical fashion you have to consider formality and time of day. It’s very interesting to me but I realize I’ve never thought about the “why”.
To keep the poors in their place basically. If they can't afford a plethora of formal garments, the wealthy are safe from mingling with their lessers.
there are still "night" clothes today, when i buy clothes i still think whether thisnis for "night", like sparkly or transparent, and im 30
You still get this to some extent today. Think of the term "evening dress", for instance. Evening dresses cover less skin (especially at the shoulders/ neckline) than those appropriate for daytime formal events.
Note- these rules are kinda arbitrary BS, but they do still exist
love it!! thank you!
I'm so glad that I live in an era, and in a segment of society, that is NOT obsessed with these fashion dos and don'ts and everyone being constantly judged for their fashion faux pas and all of that. I just wear what I want to wear, what's comfortable, what's convenient, what's practical. If I really need to be more formal, like a holiday dinner or a friend's wedding or something, I have one suit jacket that's at least 15 years old, could use some re-fitting around my expanded middle maybe, but who has time and money for that?
I remember renting a tux for my senior prom. It was kinda' fun to get a little dressed up; I was able to get a purple tie and cummerbund (being my favorite color), which I thought was pretty fancy. But nobody was there checking the time of day, or taking notes and judging all of us teenagers for our fashion choices.
There are still fashionistas, celebrities who go to these formal occasions and make a great big show about what they're wearing. But from what I can tell, it's more of a personal choice and personal opinion thing, whether an outfit looks good, or not- more than any "rules" about top hat height or tail length or lapel shape. Maybe I'm wrong, and all of those rules are still in effect somewhere; I'm just not in those circles. And, as I started off saying: good! I'd hate to have that headache. I just wanna be comfy.
you're making a shrimp coat aren't you nicole
it seems odd that there could exist a gap at all between formal and super non-public informal evening wear since humans being humans one would think they'd constantly have all situations covered and each level would evolve on its own...unless the rich are more driven by tradition than convenience 🙂(so they might want a change but need some external push to blame it on.....the royal did it so it's ok!)
Being that level of rich is a social performance art that lets people know you're part of the in-group. It also means you have time and money to devote to buying into the ecosystem. It's virtue signaling but for money.
There's a Father Brown story, by G. K. Chesterton, had a club where the gentlemen wore green waistcoats with white tie and tails because it meant they couldn't be mistaken for waiters
🎶 “Shrimp coats are a-coming,
There’s dancing tonight”🎶😂
Okay but I need a friggin shrimp coat right tf now
Just so you can be comforted to know SOME standards were upheld:
I was married in 1984 wearing full morning dress; my groomsmen wore the same. They (my brother and BIL) moaned dreadfully about the bother of having to wear formal attire, but once the hire agency got them into the outfits and adjusted, they wouldn't stop preening in the mirrors.
This was such an interesting video!!
Michigan J. Frog! Thank you for that delightful clip!
A classic !
So delightful
20:48 Ahhh, I was wondering if those would make an appearance. Why yes, my parent’s wedding photos have my Dad in one! At least he left off the platform shoes. 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
Thanks for another excellent video. FYI, tuxedos are not only called tuxedos in America. We call them that in Australia too.
The book 'Men's fashion Illustrations from turn of the century' by Jno. J. Mitchell Co. (Dover publications) is a wonderful resource for this topic.
Has anyone told you lately that you have come so amazingly far as a presenter over time? because holy shit, you have. I'm so impressed by you, Nicole! 🥰
The colour in that sneak peak!!! I love it! I want a dress in that colour for my sister's wedding
yay so excited for your tuxedo!