Hopefully compiling the whole situation in one place makes it easier for you guys to understand the situation. I saw a lot of people get pieces of the story wrong because they only saw parts of it. I combined my thoughts with the events that take place, but feel free to make your own opinion on what has happened so far. Also, sorry for the audio I'm in Tokyo and my hotel room was louder believe it or not.
My only critic of this is your opinion on Steve not reaching out for comment. No disrespect meant to wards you whatsoever but you must not spend much time on RUclips in the “drama” space. Majority of creators don’t reach out for comment before dropping “drama” bombs. Are people actually saying Steve doesn’t have anything to gain from this. Personally I feel like that’s pretty obvious being that he’s creating content on RUclips no?
Overall a really good video, i agree entirely with most of your conclusions. But you got some of the billet details very wrong, you didnt mention comms got Coltoned (its unbelievable but for.... Colton - would have been worth explaining just how special he is), and i think its worth mentioning the demands Madison said were excessive is 1 post an hour plus 4 hours ea for 2 BTS clips a week average. Also worth mentioning that LMG isnt exactly an inclusive workplace, something Linus has tried to defend with 'our yt bearded guys are diverse, really'. Certainly a person with a mobility impairment would be unable to work there. I also think it would have been worth mentioning Hanlon's Razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." lol
Pro tip when considering to buy something: - Do your own research - Look at what multiple different sources say about the thing Don't just watch one video and decide.
Yea that’s true I try to tell people go by your own interests and instincts as a computer builder I do go by reviews sometimes but when a gpu test is being wrong when I tell a customer I feel like bad for telling them to go buy said items
People do NOT think like this. IMO, it’s one of the largest roots of this problem. LMG introduces you and piques your interest so you actually have the attention span to look into the product. It can be a grueling task.
As a person who has spent over 1000 dollars on a custom keyboard setup, I can confirm his billet labs point. We are influenced by these kinds of reviews.
@@mikolajwitkowski8093what’s wrong with spending ur extra cash on something you like and use a lot lol. Women spend tons on makeup. My friend just put thousands in parts into his already expensive car. So what if you make a nice keyboard lmao
Very much so with camera's too, lots of people get burned by Sony's 50fps limits on their cameras from RUclipsrs leaving that con out of their reviews, when everyone else is doing 60fps.
@@ericneo2 You are aware, that you can't really record anywhere in 60fps right? Same goes with 30fps. If you get it wrong you will get flickering under lights that aren't made for filming, which sony cameras don't let you switch from PAL to NTSC?, I don't own all sony cameras, but mine is able to switch easily with just one reset and format of a card
When Kris says he’s way more active on twitch and is technically not wrong because 1 stream a month is technically way more than 1 RUclips video a year 🙃🙃🙃
im glad we finally got our yearly upload, I hope you’ve been well Kris. I haven’t watched your streams in a while but I remember they used to make me really happy when I used too during a time I was really struggling, thank you for lose memories and moments of happiness
I second this I use to watch kris during 2020 and honestly it helped with my mental health during the time alot, being part of what we called the kindergarten which typically lurked in the chat when he wasn't streaming was great and I made some good freinds during that time, wish I had more time to watch now days.
It is good not to trust anybody on the old interweb completely....we all need to do our own research even if it means turning off our PC and getting in our car heaven forbid and looking for a trusted source...
@@wslcfarm WTF are you on about? Get in your car and look for a trusted source? Are you going into some alleyways and asking the crackhead what his favorite GPU is? GTFO your comment is so ignorant.
When I saw the entertainment that involves seeing BTS and how Linus true face off cam. I hope Linus takes it easy on himself workloadwise. and change for the better.
It's so sad that Linus decided to bash on Billet Labs so much since there is actually a purpose to their product besides just being just an expensive water block. The Monoblock was specifically designed to take up as little space as possible for certain SFF builds with tight tolerances. Looking at the comparable GPU and CPU blocks from EK, its around $100 more expensive, but also still takes up more space. This can sometimes be too much for some cases, making the Monoblock really the only solution for a couple of liquid cooled SFF builds.
His take on that was SO bad. The literally provided a 3090 and full instructions but Linus thinks stuff should work without instructions and 'why would you put it on an older GPU'. Then he was just 'it wasn't worth someone's time to fix no matter the cost'. And......... why the f is COLTON _managing_ business comms. The guy who copyright struck their own channel, then thought they were joking when they fired him and just turned up to work the next day? Twice? How do you even manage to send an email with nobody in the To: field?? I honestly wouldnt believe it if it wasnt ..... Colton.
And his hypocrisy in complaining he hadn't been reached out to for comment when he literally just did the same thing to Billet. Also recall him complaining on the WAN show about a prototype backpack that was sold without his approval...
@@Reedith some employee probably just took it lol. Seeing those intel $5000 extreme tech renovation videos they would always go over how their employees just took stuff from the inventory
They seem to have got stuck between being mostly entertainment and providing accurate, unbiased information. It's easier to take all sorts of sponsorship when you are just doing entertainment. The tension between reviewing stuff while said stuff is providing you income is one that pre-dates the internet and YT content, etc.
I do want to chime in about Steve with GN, he's done investigative journalism a lot, and from the perspective of investigative journalism by reaching out before hand the story could have changed, it would have given LTT the opportunity to cover up the billet labs issue and say that they had already discussed with them to resolve the issue before the video was released to undermine the allegations.
@mycosys I have no idea what "Coltoned" is supposed to mean. But assuming you mean that there was supposedly an error in sending the email, well, I don't actually believe what LTT said about that. That just struck me as a PR move that was trying to do damage control. Straight up, the only thing that reaching out would have done would have been to show LTT to start early damage control to cover up how shittily they acted in the situation. Edit: With how much joking was in that video, I don't believe any of it. They should have shut up and been serious for once, no jokes and no plugs or monetization.
@@CodyKillebrew Sure, it's possible that's a story. But I will absolutely believe in E-Mail f*** ups. Been there done that, though not for anything this important. It's not a good look and not a good thing, but they straight up said that.
@CodyKillebrew So they faked an email with timestamps as a pr move? I highly doubt that. And in regards to your edit the video is 95% serious. The allegations up to that point were not *that egregious. The goal of the video I belive was to say yes we fucked up and yes we're trying to fix it but we are still gonna give off the same vibes and not do a 180 in tone and direction. Edit: also if Steve reached out for comment after he had compiled his piece then he could ask billet labs if there had been a change in communication after that point. There would be no covering anything up.
@@CodyKillebrew Colton is one of their longest term employees. The same one who sent the 'at least it isnt on a shelf' email. He copyright struck their own main channel, got fired, and then turned up to work the next day because he thought Linus was joking. Twice. Then got promoted to manager. If you dont know the history of Colton it seems unbelievable someone would leave their subject out of the to: field. Knowing it was Colton mainly just makes me ask why the hell a guy so inept and bad at social context is in comms.
If there is one person, out of all of the reviewers, that you do not want to be on his bad side is Steve. There is no one more thorough in their reviews that him and GN, and he seems at least to be a man with a lot of integrity and love for the community.
Gamers nexus is horrible entertainment. Lmg could make countless errors and I'm still going to listen becuase its entertainment. Those errors add to the entertainment.
@@isaarunarom7830An error in a thorough product review is fun? What if thousands of people then go and buy the product cause LTT said it's 300% better than last gen? (this actually happened). That's not entertainment, that's wrong. LTT is a joke. They should stick to goofing around, not to product reviews.
LMG wants to have its cake and eat it too. Terrible , inaccurate testing and tons of excuses to justify it. They have to decide if they want to be clowns or if they want to be respected and trusted.@@isaarunarom7830
Why would Steve want to reach out to Linus, look how he acts and their group just tries to cover up their mistakes. He had no obligation to reach out and it even with Linus' replying it changed nothing.
We would've known if Kris reached out to Steve and asked for his opinion on this video before publishing it. Seriously though, I'm not sure how honest that expectation was if Kris doesn't do the thing he expects others to do. It seems more like some rhetoric thrown in for the Linus fans, not something he himself actually believes in
Kris isn't proclaiming himself to be a journalist though (despite the journalistic impartiality with which he summed up this situation). Steve actually was and is doing that @@NJ-wb1cz.
@@NJ-wb1cz It's also the case that Comment from Linus was included in Steve's video - Just not the comment Linus would have liked Namely they included their publice response from the WAN show where linus said that they where not going to do a longform response to the issue - If saying that on your weekly podcast with millions of views isn't the clearest form of "No Comment" I don't know what is....
@@NJ-wb1czbecause Kris wasn't making a 45 minute long investigative video solely about GN, just summing up the discourse and sprinkling in his own thoughts. And I think you're mistaken by pushing this as a thing where you need to pick a side. Everybody's made missteps in this situation, some far more grave than others, but missteps none the less. Kris can critique some of GN's holier-than-thou rhetoric while still being entirely against what LMG has been pulling.
I don’t really understand why you would pay $100 million for a company that only makes like a couple million a year… I almost feel like this offer is BS just like this BS artist Linus has always been. Dude would literally trade your life for 100 bucks. This guy is the epitome of greed.
@@ZxAMobile because media companies are worth a lot more than their turnover or profit, there are non-monetary factors (such as reach, influence, trust, audience metrics) that can significantly impact their value. They are making quite a bit more than a 'couple million' a year too, their product and labs investments alone over the last 2 years likely cost LMG a more than a couple million a year, I wouldn't have any doubt the $100m offer is accurate.
@@ZxAMobileuh they make around 30 million per year with their channels and floatplane subs, and their assets like the buildings and hardware/software development, not to mention just the market dominance they have in the technology field, so yeah it makes sense for them to turn it down, they make that in revenue within at least 3-5 years
@@ZxAMobile Linus literally has a feature unlocked to him from youtube to be able to upload and edit videos in place; nobody else in the tech sphere has that feature. It's not unreasonable to think the subscriber inertia (or bot farms) just also automatically give every LMG video 10 million views before any real eyes watch it, inflating the asking for ad revenue.
Unfortunately I feel really bad for Madison and aren’t trying to victim blame but Ltt can’t be held responsible so matter what they said about things like someone having bad mental health and causing harm instead of owning up to responsibilities
F#$K me just listen to your disgusting selves? Fan hire, so it's potentially okay to bully, harass and sexually assult her, or anybody?? Maybe she wasn't a great fit, it happens. A good organisation and a good team or family helps, not puts someone down. FFS. Next time you all look in the mirror, look deeply into your own eyes for 10 seconds and say loudly "I must not be a twat"
@@SpikeletTheBoss LTT certainly can be held responsible for their actions however. If anything, they need to learn to treat their employees better in the future.
@@SpikeletTheBoss Madison also seemed to have a serious misunderstanding of what professional social media work is like or even just corporate work in general, that or the operational processes and cross-team communications at LMG must be on par with government or non-existent.
The issue is more due to Linus knowing he was wrong and covering it up over and over, when he got caught doing it he fumbled even more. He deserved to get called out.
I disagree that a journalist has to reach out to a huge corporation for comment every time they want to report on it. Especially when any comment probably won't affect the commentary at all. The only good that "Reaching out" here does is to give LMG a chance to convince Steve to NOT publish his video or criticism. Which is, you know, not really in public interest. It also gives the corporation an opportunity to just waste time or even pre-emptively strike back at you. What's the point? This is a public issue already and shoud be discussed - PUBLICALLY. If Linus had something extraordinary to say that made everything OK - I'm sure Steve would be publishing a retraction. But he did his due dilligence, gathered information independently from his own sources. Nothing that Linus can say will change that information. TLDR: No, press should NOT be required to give the corporations a heads-up before they publish something. That is asking for corruption.
Considering what LMG _actually tried_ a cover-up in regards to that water block, I don't think Steve's explanation of why GN didn't reach out beforehand is disingenuous. If you believe you're dealing with people who would try a cover-up, you want to give them as little time for that cover-up as possible.
I do appreciate lmg giving billet labs a heads up before publishing their video on their product so they could clear up any misinformation and ensure they installed it correctly lol
@@cpin5224 The really decent thing to do would have been to just decline to review it, as it's clear they weren't going to recommend it no matter what. If they just needed a weird piece of hardware to low-effort clown on, there's plenty available from major brands.
Let's be real, Linus isn't mad, because he couldn't hand in a statement, he wanted to keep it out of the public. If I had a dollar for every time some influencer acts all tough business guy when they criticise others publicly, but buddy buddy "you could have talked to me" when they themselves get criticised....
Bless you for making this. We need more RUclipsrs like you. Whenever there's some site controversy, I hate having to go through hours of content from the involved parties or watch endless commentary videos milking the situation for content. Thank you, sir.
That's wrong. Neither lmg or gamers nexus reach out when they slam corporations nor do they have to. Linus has repeatedly trashed eufy, anchor, and jasco switches on wan. Its literally his attempt to control the narrative.
It’s better for accurate and ethical journalistic practices to reach out and get both sides of the argument. However, it isn’t good politics. Linus could’ve released a hit piece on Gamers Nexus just before Games Nexus published their video, and made Gamers Nexus look defensive. Journalistically, that shouldn’t matter. But that’s kind of like being a pacifist in a war zone. Sure, you are the more admirable person. You also will almost certainly get shot and die. And that isn’t to say there’s anything ethically wrong with only telling one side of a story. Provided you seek to only share the truth and don’t hide anything, then you’re ethically ok. It’s just not the most ethical and accurate reporting practice for journalism. I hate that we live in a reality where truth can be squashed by politics. But we do live in that reality. And whether you think gamers nexus should’ve reached out for comment or not, you should acknowledge there are very compelling reasons on both sides. Even if you think one is much worse than the other.
@@Mathignihilcehk it's not about politics. Look at the eufy situation. The media reached out multiple times and they were lied to. If a company's ethics are off it won't matter what you do they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear. Even the Asus boards that were killing x3D chips. People reached out but the legal team stepped in and the only statements that were released were boiler plate. It is better to have both sides but if the other side is dishonest, won't tell the truth, or refuses to acknowledge it then it's a waste of time. Not every situation requires both sides. And the fact they lied and said every time they release a new comparison chart in a video it's new data and test. They were lying about That so there is no reason for Steve to reach out.
i have a Kone Aimo, its a great mouse, but i noticed that it has way more resistance when the plastic was removed......so i put it back on. i have it that way for half a year now, its great
You say that but what if the plastic isn’t obvious? The material of the slides was supposed to be PTFE or glass, two materials that can be shiny and would be difficult to see a piece of clear plastic on. That is made even worse if the plastic is fit exactly to the pads so there is no pull tab or anything, in that case it would be very easy to miss.
@@conorstewart2214 that not the point. The company contacted them told them that they should remove plastic tab. And they still didn’t retest and update the video. Oh no that would cost $100 to do that. IRRESPONSIBLE!
Over my years of building pcs and looking for info, I’ve learned to watch specific RUclipsrs for certain things, for mice and mouse pad reviews, I watch boardzy, pc building/benchmarking JayzTwoCents and gamersnexus, I’ve never really watched any LMG content for reviews, their videos always seemed more of a we shoot for content type instead of actually taking their reviews seriously.
Oh God, ALL YTers shoot videos for content! Cmon bro Kristopher is making this one following the same concept. In my opinion all GN has done is leave me with fewer YT content for me to watch!
@@bury101 all I mean by “content” is their videos to me seemed more like something you’d watch for entertainment instead of actually trying to get information about something, not saying that lmg doesn’t put useful information in their videos, it’s just I know that Jay or GN are usually super transparent about every piece of gear they review, and if something is brought up that they messed up, they will address it in another video and own up to it if they were wrong.
It always confuses me that people dont go to esport pros/streamers. If you're into shooters theirs hundreds of in depth reviews of mice and mousepads that go in to how it might effect your style of aiming and try to explain how to judge which mouse works best for your personal setup instead of trying to claim its good or bad
0:03 Ah yes, the "Gamers Nexus problem". Too long to watch, so most people just watch bits of it and come to the wrong conclusion. Remember the "AIO liquid cooler" thing? People obviously didn't watch the whole thing, and another RUclips channel had to explain that "it is fine to put the tubes below the pump unless a portion of the radiator is still above it".
true. I don't think Steve ever needed to contact lmg prior to making his video. obviously this means he can't call himself a friend of linus anymore, but that doesn't matter as long as we consumers r treated in a better way on utube.
Why would you inform a competitor prior to openly criticising them for offering an inferior product (i.e. false reviews)? Especially when they have mentioned you by name as an inferior competitor in a video?
The problem with the clip at 2:13 is that in the clip, Linus was trying to justify his ego and the 'trust me bro' situation and didnt like that viewers were calling out his bullshit. 😅
Yeah, Steve was put in a shitty situation in the first place and did the best he could. As shown in this recent drama Linus has a history of clapping back at others in a very unprofessional manner during his live streams. To say Steve could've done better on his side just doesn't make sense, he DID do better than Linus. Linus is not getting called out for one small thing, he's getting called out after a history of acting unprofessional and giving unprofessional petty emotional criticism to companies that didn't deserve it. He's hurting people. Asking Steve to take the high road is just silly, when the rest of the community had already been treating Linus with way more leniency than he deserves.
A good summary, but you missed out the bit around the emails relating to the water block and that LMG had apparently attempted to reach out and rectify the situation with the company BEFORE Steve’s video. Only LMG staff lack the skills to cc in the correct people - which I’m not sure is overall better or worse for their look as a professional organisation
Sure would've been nice if that was figured out before the GN video went live, which is why it's important to let both sides present their side of the story. But Tech Jesus doesn't need that. He already knows everything.
@@jfolzthey DIDN'T "already come to an arrangement", but Linus stated they HAD, they might have TRIED to email BUT they DIDN'T, they WOULD have tried to neutalize the situation if Steve had given them a heads up and that isn't right. Steve didn't need to reach out for proof from LTT/LMG either way as he had, spoken with Billet (1 of the 2 parties and had proof from THEM), and was sourcing LOTS of evidence from the videos full of errors he showed (LTT/LMG's own content) AND Linus's own words when a member of staff TRIED to get his boss to do the right thing on the WAN show (again LTT/LMG uploaded that themselves, smoking barrel stuff). Someone shoots someone dead and you have it on 4K CCTV, caught them holding the gun read handed and there was lots of credible witnesses, you DON'T need a confession to convict them for it, you have enough evidence already.
14:35 I love you said this because as someone who is just looking back on the drama in hindsight, it feels like drama, because it was kind of like a sneak attack to someone who apparently was a friend
Nah, not tipping LMG off was the good move. He probably didn't trust they wouldn't use their massive resources and people to quickly pull some miracle sweep under the rug before GN could do anything. This lady Madison... the one that inflicted self harm to get a day off... I don't know if that's someone you'd want to take the opinion of seriously. No amount of work pressure should result in that to a mentally stable person. She eventually quit, so it's not like they had her contract written in Avernus.
I'm sure that Madison did have some legit issues at LMG, but any time I hear some Gen Z barely 20-something "complain" about how awful their job is I just roll my eyes like an involuntary response. Then when you start talking about literally sending yourself to the ER risking death by exsanguination or infection, that's not hating your job, that's mental illness.
She made that up and now getting away with false accusing LLT Team ? wtf I don’t agree with everything LLT Team do but this is disgusting modern women behaviour and she need to held accountable for her bad behaviour
The 3rd party investigation thing will pivot entirely on whether Madison participates. If she does, the third party investigator will be able to get names, places, etc. and then compare them to statements and records from the employees involved. It goes one of two ways - either most of the elements of her story are inconsistent with reality (such as saying x happened before y but the only possible sequence of events is y first and then x), or the elements of her story are all plausible and come down to whether the other person admits to doing it. If Madison does not talk to the 3rd party investigator, or if she refuses to provide names, dates, and places, no conclusion to the accuracy of her story can be drawn. A parallel to this is the 3rd party investigation into the Indiana Batmobile arrest drama. Some of the people responsible for the misconduct refused to participate in the investigation, which is their right, but the investigation makes them look bad.
She wont it will end her victim Cred as all METOOers are She didnt go to the third party group before the issue. Reminder that meeting happened less than a day after she quit over the phone you cant exactly spawn a contract with a group like that overnight.
Investigations is wrong way to do it - just admit th workplace has issues and actively bring in people to train your staff to act correctly, create an inhouse processes and environment where toxicity, no matter what strength, is a non-starting situation. If it needs to start at the top so be it - no more 'boys will be boys' videos, LMG is no longer a small bunch of guys pushing the edge, ...... lets do it right people....
If HR had been doing their job and documenting treatment, events and issues raised there would be a history to refer back to. The sexual assaulter needs to be investigated and be been fired if results point to it being true. Training is not going to fix other people still having to work with them so they need to go.
99.99% of the crap on LMG is pointless and stupid and not point in buying it. the average gamer doesnt need any of the 1000's of products that is shown on LMG
i strongly disagree with the reaching out. in the forum respones linus did make it sound as if he had contacted billet before the gn video which wasn't the case. if he had contacted him before he easily could've make it seem as if he contacted them without it having anything to do with gn. steve was spot on in his reasoning
i disagree that Steve should have reached out to LMG for a comment. we should be doing the same for other, let me remind you, multi million dollar companies. the tech review space as a whole (including ethical issues) needs to stop believing what the PR response is for these mega companies.
I had already stopped watching LMG videos because of errors and inconsistencies. I also knew I couldn't trust him as soon as the "just trust me bro" thing happened. If you're really ready to stand behind something putting it in writing is no big deal. It also told me how self righteous and our of touch he is. That added to the lack of consistent data and the unbalanced and inconsistent approach they use to describe products and their opinion of it and the projects they do, I was done already. It is just a bunch of fluff. I didn't go over and start watching another review because I watch every one I can within reason. I just stopped watching them. The funny thing is I was an OG supporter on Floatplane. I am still on Floatplane but stopped giving LMG money. I kept my other subscriptions.
Steve turned off monetization, so how did he really gain? Sorry but i disagree. Steve did the right thing. Maybe the LTT lab tech shouldn't have run his mouth. Now onto Madison. Btw, how harsh do you want him to be. Steve basically is now holding every youtube creator accountable. Which is a good standard. I dont want to buy a 1000 part based on inaccurate information. Great Job Steve!!!
and then build a better blender and complain about the blendtech factory miscommunicating about Panton Colors, because why is it so hard to match panton colors? He him self bougth offical panton color reference after making fun about adobe and panton for monetizing the mapping of Panton to RGB and CYMK.
Yeah GN was a little too overboard on the situation.. If you listened to the Labs team tour guide HE himself Specifically stated "SOMEBODY liiiikee GN or anyone who IS similar" by example. Not who IS, GN and so on... ppl miss-read the situation by just a short clip....
If I was Steve, my concern would be that LMG could slow walk a response to buy them time to sanitize videos and mitigate the overall impact of Steve’s video. But what Linus said on the WAN show about the water block does offer insight into his casual relationship with professionalism.
I have never been a fan of Linus anyway, I prefer other influencers, he always seemed to be incompetent or not sure about what he was talking about, like he was always talking out of his ass, and now it seems it's bit him in the ass
Steve from GN defend himself and HUB with a fair shopping list of critique about data and quality Linus dug a bigger hole due to doubling down and became the biggest bag fumbler Madison stuff is the killshot on top It was a perfect shitstorm that brewed and broke the camel back.
Thank you for making this video Kris, honestly didn't want to go through every single thread in twitter nor watch any of both LTT's or Steve's videos. At least this was condensed, and hopefully everything gets solved soon.
I cannot agree with your take on "reaching out for comment", Gamers Nexus & LMG's relationship could very easily be used, by either party, in an unethical manner, it's easier to get information from friends/peers. This was 100% a time NOT reaching out was the correct and ethical call. By not talking to Linus about this ahead of time we got to see the true Linus, a person willing to lie and misslead in order to cover up his companies mistakes, the Billet Labs original story was bad, the flat out lies about how it was handled were way worse.
@@fabiodlx he's a personal friend, so makes sense. This is exactly what Steve mentioned also, can't let his personal relationship enter into it, it would be unfair on other companies, though he was REAL gentle honestly, as much as he could be considering
Well I don't think LMG comparing themselves with Gamer's Nexus was a low kick or anything like that. It would have been perfectoy fair if they really did their job well. As a french student journalist, I think we should normalise not reaching for comments. Big organisations take advantage of this practice to pressure journalists, destroy evidences ou prepare a twisted narative. The Billet Lab incident is really speaking because Linus think he's legitimate not to share informations (x cost y, does z) or conditional recommandation (you shouldn't take it if you're looking for x or y) but closed decision (nobody should take it in any situation). That's not journalism.
GN did not reached LTT mainly because they know Linus and how he will react. I do think this was the best possible way to handle it, if Linus was someone you can have a conversation with I think Steve would have reached out.
TBH, it seems like the CEO has things well under control. Except Linus himself. They should’ve muzzled him. If the apology video came out without Linus’s comment, that would’ve been a way better look for LTT. He literally just made everything worse. I’m not sure how the CEO could’ve told the owner “shut up. I’ve got this. If you butt in now, you’ll make everything worse”. But really, there’s never a good reason to get in front of your company’s PR unless you’re sacrificing your own reputation and admitting guilt. The company can have multiple people review the PR statement, make sure it’s good, and then submit it. Why would you take on the responsibility of putting out a proper response? It’s like sponge Bob subbing in for a lawyer. I guess you can, but WHY!?!
@@Mathignihilcehk I guess he really thinks he knows better than everyone, and he cannot be more wrong. He missed a good opportunity to not say a word. I agree that the video would have been better without him, people doesn’t trust a single word coming out of his mouth
Linus can say what he wants its whatever, I dont want a corporate by the script Linus. Its up to the people to watch multiple videos anyways and they'll just buy a similar product if its life or death for them to buy an 800 waterblock, lmao. Also this is going to be an unhinged take but going back to college and listening to gen Z bitch about their first time working hard sounds exactly like Madison; nearly verbatim. I caught them in lies when they make situations sound grander than it is because "work hard". I will concede that job creep is kind of nuts in some areas and people are expected to do more but what she was allegedly expected to do at this company isn't really far off from the standard of a social media content creator. Like a couple tiktoks and social posts that you can get an AI to write most of for you, in an 8 hour time block? I'm so, so sorry. She would hate to see what nearly every other job ever expects you to get done.
Omg Kris I am glad u started to upload again i really miss your streams 😢 idk if you still do but i hope too see more videos on RUclips WHAT A GREAT VIDEO !!!!!!
When you mention the issue with Steve not asking context to Linus, it looks weird, why? Because LTT has never asked anything to other companies whenever they do their "rants" or complain about how others handle difficult situations.
Good breakdown, Good point that Steve could of requested for a comment before posting maybe. Believe he says in his video that since Linus has made a statement about all issues already during his previous podcasts or from a tweet, Steve is using that as LTT's response to the many dramas that unfolded and decided to make a judgement call on uploading the video without comment from Linus or LMG.. Not sure why the comment about how Steve is partially motivated by money or something and that's why he did it? Just because one brings up a bigger company, doesn't mean they wanted to just for exposure, Steve's character doesn't follow the argument you are trying to make with your statement, it only reminds us on why you decided to bring up this video...basically to get in on the action right? a "slice" of that good money from this 'drama' lol. You did bring up how you mention bigger companies before and it helped your views and whether you were motivated to just trying to get more exposure or you were actually trying to convey good arguments against bad practices, then it's something that needs to be done. Guess Linus just got too big and needed to be humbly reminded that it's okay to make mistakes and just try to do better measures to avoid the same type of mistakes in the future. Even in his 'Ukulele' response he starts off by making excuses for his actions. His track record has been pretty bad, I use to watch Linus and NCIX vids back when he was shooting in the parking lot. The past few years isn't my style of entertainment as I'd rather get some feedback from other CC's than LTT's and i'm not looking for his downfall by any means but his actions are def showing who he is.
DUDE show more respect when you are in Japan, you are filming on private property in a Japanese train station dropping constant f-bombs and swearing when a cleaner is literally right behind you 4:58 is totally distressful, try this in Singapore or mainland china and you will get cited or thrown into jail.
Poor little Madison. She's obviously mentally ill - a cutter by her own admission. Some of what she says is likely true, but she was an under-performing employee looking for excuses.
True, but I disagree about his opinion to letting someone know before publishing an article- it makes no sense and Steve already explained why it would have been detrimental
I don't believe Madison! I don't believe the death threats. I don't believe the leg cutting. And when someone is that whiny you know something's wrong with them. Sounds like she's acting the victim to the hilt! Also, why did she wait till that particular moment to say anything about all of this? I sincerely believe that she is being paid by someone to make Linus look bad, and of course if someone is being paid they will say anything. She needs to go home, take her Prozac, and take a nap.
What bugs me the most is how many people are saying it's steve's fault for not contacting Linus about this, and others who are blowing off the sexual innuendo at the meeting. MY big thing is how many people have blown off the the kid who got the play button, and then got harassed to the point of taking his life, and saying there was nothing linus could have done. I think Linus Calling the kid then calling out the fanbase on this might have helped.
It's noones "fault", really. I mean sometimes in journalism, a journalist will reach out for comment (You often hear "Company X was unavaible for comment", etc), but they don't have to. In this case, steve decided not to, which is perfectly fine. I do have a point to make about the "sexual innuendo" though. I think a few jokes here and there are fine. People can often get too sensitive about these things, and call "sexism" when it really isn't. Of course, there's a line that you cross, but we don't know if LTT crossed this line. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
@@Sepultra012 he really should have though. Steve's (self-proclaimed) motivation was to put a spotlight on LMG rushing videos out the door, which leads to factual errors that mislead consumers. The Billet Labs thing was never supposed to be the centerpiece of his argument, but people ran with it and largely ignored the rest. Knowing LMG's side of the story might have allowed him to change his video so that doesn't happen. Like pointing out that LMG was trying to remedy the situation (and making more mistakes in the process...) and were, in fact, not just out to make a quick buck by selling a "priceless prototype". Because that's how people interpreted it, and what I believe Linus was trying (and failing) to express saying it "wasn't sold but auctioned for charity". This is also something where I vehemently disagree with Tech Jesus. The difference between "sale" and "charity auction" is not just semantics, but intent, and that matters a lot in situations like this.
Personally, I would think it would be more appropriate to contact linus before the video went out, but I don't think it's a terribly inappropriate thing to not do that. By not contacting LTT, it does seem like GN wanted to get the "scoop" to to speak, before LTT could respond, which is, as you said, contrary to Steves self-proclaimed goal of putting a spotlight on LTT, rather than try to generate content for his channel. I think Linus response was from the heart, and yes, intent does matter. All in all, I feel that LTT is generally guilty of just rushing videos out the door and maybe overworking staff, issues that they are now (seemingly) dealing with. There could also be issues resulting from the change in CEO, enlarging the company, hiring more staff, etc, causing bad communication between departments (That could be in separate buildings, etc). I don't think LTT is a *bad* company. The worst allegations, at least for me, seemed to be from Madison (Sexism is a LOT worse than just rushing vids out the door and making factual errors) but even here we only have one persons opinion. There are several employees that have stated that they felt overworked and rushed, noone has mentioned sexism or sexist jokes, etc, as being a problem within LTT. @@jfolz
@@Sepultra012 As he said in their "apology" video, Terren Tong hasn't been CEO of LMG for long. He's still learning how the company works. Surely there were going to be changes anyhow, else what's the point of hiring a new CEO. That's why the timing of the GN video seems weird to me. And what's with the obvious conflict of interest of one media outlet publishing a hit piece on a competing media outlet, which everyone seems to ignore? I guess Tech Jesus can't do no wrong or something along those lines.
I couldn't disagree more with the whole "you could have talked with them first". That would have give them time to cover up their mistakes. Also, LTT does not provide with a heads up to the product manufacturer when they upload a harsh review, so...
Did Linus ask Steve before that Ltt guy comment false claim and involve GN ? I don't think so, the quote "You should've reach out to me before" is completely invalid. Linus bring all this upon himself
Somewhere here we need to have a discussion about the effect of the YT algorithm. There is just no reward for quality in the way youtube deals with videos. A LOT of creators get it into their brain that they MUST release on time to satisfy the great youutube gods. Maybe if we actually start talking about it, we can get even a little change
I kinda made a small content piece about this recently. Called the uprise of clickbait in tech channels. Mostly focused on how crazy the algorithm has gotten. Any RUclips channel has to basically beat yesterday in a dramatic way. It makes, making content feel a bit forced at times. Tech channels are all falling into this, I not only called myself out but GN, Linus, hardware unboxed, and Jay for all kinda feeding into the clickbait hotnews style content that is honestly not even their fault .
Steve not reaching out for comment is hilarious, as it's been know for years his ego is bigger than his hairdoo, and he dislikes and is jealous of LTT. He has been waiting for this chance... yes, yes he has, and now he got it and he sunk his teeth in. I'm not saying Linus didn't deserve it, but to for Steve to act like he was doing anything other than twisting the knife he already stuck Linus with is fucking hilarious.
Okay but steve released his video Linus said they already worked out a deal with billet labs but steve talked to them and they said they only talked to linus after the video was released so if steve talked to them first they would have lied and run around doing damage control to back that lie
Okay, so as someone in film, at least the 0.5 zoom with no stabilization, that kinda has to be that way, there’s no real practical way to stabilize a fully zoomed out camera…
The weird thing about that LTT apology video is the CEO looks so dead on camera. He didn't look into the camera, he didn't seem to ever blink, and you can tell he's reading a teleprompter. That's fine but why do all CEOs seem so stiff and lifeless when they do a presentation?
16:05 this is exactly Steve's point. LMG is not a human nor a creator. It's a mega content machine that doesn't feel or think like humans. If a company passes a certain point, there's no semblance of a soul left to it. If left alone it will continue to make more and more money. There's no point in trying to be nice if the ultimate message (in this case: your data is shit pls fix) is made less clear just to be more polite. If you spend time with philosophy or sociology students, you'll see them talking about this same thing a lot. I don't have the best words to describe what I'm trying to get across right now. But I may edit this comment later
In my admittedly biased opinion Linus deserves all of Steve’s harshness and not finding a softer way to deal with it for the following reasons. 1. Linus himself on WAN show has called out companies for their faults multiple times without giving them the chance for comment multiple times or sometimes even spontaneously on Twitter 2. Linus multiple times has harshly called out large companies for their Bull shit and faults (sometimes without previously fact checking if live on WAN show) and then mentioned that the company or leaders might be shit but they have good, valuable and ethical employees under them. So don’t bash the employees and hopefully they can come out stronger and go the right thing. 3. LTT and LMG is a huge company given 100+ employees and 100M+ offer. They deserve as much harshness and critique as Apple, Intel, Etc. If a channel that criticises cannot accept criticism at the same level that they dish out maybe they have a bigger problem. (I acknowledge that it’s not fair to any company or individual to go all out and scorched earth but given that Linus himself has done so he doesn’t deserve any breaks) 4. In any other traditional media organisation, such mishandling would have been been a much bigger issue. Given that Linus is trying to rival that with Labs and covering more things, he deserves more heat. He’s self-admittedly more than an entertainer and cares about the data and information he puts out, thus being able to take valid harsh criticism comes with the territory. (Being emotional is fine as long as it comes with a wholehearted and honest apology that doesn’t sound scripted) 5. In Linuses statement/essay he posted after the first GN video he made incorrect statements especially about the billet labs. Given that I would not be surprised if they went on damage control to fix things before the video went out so they can appear to do the right thing. I agree with Steve that giving LTT and LMG an opportunity to comment would be special treatment and give them the opportunity to cover their asses rather than being honest. (Especially noting how little supporting information they gave in their apology video. This shows that they are a giant media company who cares about saving face first and a friendly/approachable media company that cares about its viewers second) 6. I’m not even gonna approach the Madison issue because I don’t think I have the right to comment. But if any of that is true, he should no longer be on camera or in any management position. Just a silent shareholder. That’s the minimum we would expect from a (giant) media company who messed up that bad anyway.
"LTT and LMG is a huge company given 100+ employees and 100M+ offer. They deserve as much harshness and critique as Apple, Intel, Etc." Seriously? LMG is a medium-sized company at best. There's a 10000x valuation difference between them and the companies you mentioned. Even corsair is 15x.
@@jfolz while I agree that LMG is smaller than the companies I mentioned, in my opinion there is a point at which you are big enough to need to be responsible and do the right thing. “We didn’t know how do to ___ right” becomes an invalid excuse once you’re big enough to be able to afford resources and expertise. For the data they have been boasting how good they are and how they have improved for a while, and a few rather simple errors were made. From the HR perspective, Linus has spoken highly from how well he thinks he manages staff and even went to the extent of addressing unions. TLDR: I agree they are smaller than my listed companies, however, for the issues at hand they are big enough to have known and done better. Now everyone makes mistakes, as long as you recover well from it and don’t make things worse (Arguably Linus’s emotional response and lack of fact checking before posting it was the first domino since GN’s video). We will see how LMG does but they deserve harsh criticism for where they are now. While they have lost my support for now and I don’t agree with them on many things, I do hope they bounce back and the right people are reprimanded or let go as needed (for the HR matter).
@@kushalraj the examples you gave were simply so far out that they didn't make any sense. I also don't see how you get from firing himself and hiring a new CEO to Linus thinking he's an amazing manager. They simply grew too quickly and processes hadn't kept up, which they were keenly aware of already. The interview video they themselves published, used by GN in their video, said as much. Evidently things had already started moving at LMG and the GN video only sped things up.
There is a major omission with this video, which changes the entire Billet Labs story. Billet Labs confirmed via email (and there are screenshots of those emails in the LTT apology video), that they sent LTT the Monoblock for LTT to keep so they could use it in future builds if they wanted. That's an important piece to the puzzle, because that invalidates the claims that LTT never had any permission to take or use the monoblock afterwards. (Effectively stealing it) No, they shouldn't have auctioned it, but the timeline of events with that small detail is pretty easy to explain. BL gives LTT the monoblock to test and use for future builds, etc. They catalog it as inventory. BL emails back after the review shitting on them and says on second thought, do you mind give it back to us? LTT says yes, but they fail to pull it out of their inventory (Because they are disorganized), and whomever picked the parts for the auction selected that part. So there’s two possibilities: Steve knew Billet initially told LTT to keep it, and he chose to leave it out because it wasn’t part of the narrative he was trying to present. Steve didn’t know, because Billet didn’t tell him - and Steve chose to publish his video without asking LTT for comment, just taking Billet’s word for everything. Both possibilities are equally bad. He was either intentionally deceptive, or unintentionally deceptive. Theres one more piece: Apparently BL told LTT that the monoblock WAS compatible with the 4090 (As in it would mount, but couldnt verify how well it would perform), yet told Steve they stated it SHOULD be compatible. It was only after the review came out did BL try a 4090 and realize it did not fit. If BL indeed told LTT it would work with the 4090, then it's on them for the shitty review, regardless of the GPU they sent with it. If I buy an AM4 cooler and the manufacturer states it is compatible with my AM5 system, and then doesn't fit, is that my fault?
I find it unfair that when people talk LTT and LMG they don't throw the appropriate shade at Yvonne, it's always Linus did this did that... From the apology video I think it was evident who is actually steering and calling the shots for this company. She said she was stopping all video production for the next week. Why didn't the newly hired CEO announce this? I think this is telling and she was also the last person seen on the video, with some say an inappropriate joke and actually did plug one of the company's biggest sponsor's (DBrand). Linus wasn't telling inappropriate jokes or plugging sponsors. There is no other female Dept. Head other then Yvonne, she is the CFO (Chief Financial Officer) and was the Head of HR (when Madison worked there). There is no other female personality in front of the camera more than Yvonne, if any? This is strange for a company of their size and the day and age we are living in. Linus might have stepped down but I don't think Yvonne has... Yvonne has more to do with everything going on than I think people realize. Linus is a good hearted human being... but one must remember there are two owners to this company. Food for thought.
Do you know what C-Suite people do? Almost everyone over 20 knows. That's right, they run the company - it's their collective responsibility to ensure the company is successful, grows and runs smoothly. There are serious penalties and laws around mismanagement of a company. It is, just like you and I, a legal entity, and has a lot more rights than an actual human. Yvonne would have a BIG part of that as the CFO, the new CEO has only been there for 6 weeks and is still learning the business side of LMG - so not making the big decisions just yet. He'll probably be up and running in the next 2 months or so. Until then, Yvonne needs to step up and make proper business decisions like closing production down (if she even made that decision - who knows, but they got her to say it on camera, because, frankly, if Linus had said it, eh, who would've taken that seriously?). Also, using Yvonne is "clever" - she's a familiar face, she's high up in the company, and everyone in the audience knows her - therefore, the thinking is, everybody would take what she says a little more seriously - we know Linus stuffed up, so here's his wife, kicking his butt, and cleaning the mess... see? Very clever. She also has the job of telling Linus to shut his big trap and let the corporation take the wheel around this issue. So no... everyone knows that a CFO has a LOT to do with the running of any business - there is no "food for thought" in that statement. I do agree that she should bear a lot of the blame as well... as the other owner, she must ensure the bugger she married doesn't break the brand down that they've been building. I agree, it is disturbing (if it's true) that Yvonne was head of HR when Madison worked there - but only if there were any actual complaints made - HR can't do Jack until someone says something. As far as the joke around DBrand - I don't think anything malicious was involved, or them trying to plug a sponsor, or anything like that... I think they tried to end the very serious video on a lighter note - it was just in such bad taste, almost laughable. (You didn't ask for this part, but I thought I'd say something anyway) My thoughts on the video is that they seriously missed the mark and rushed something out in a panic. If your C-Level execs can't even speak to the audience without having to read EVERY word from a teleprompter, that means they haven't thought about it properly. They should have had a statement prepared and published which outlined their intentions, then had a video with the CEO and / or CFO sitting there and giving people the TLDR in a more natural setting. The way they handled it was just a classic example of how not to communicate.
Completely disagree about GN reaching out to LTT. I'm glad he didn't, Linus tried to gaslight the Billit situation even in his apology video ,if Steve would have reached out he would have covered it all under the rug.
I disagree with some of what you said. What you failed to see was that LMG had been sending inaccurate info for years!!! I, as a consumer who also trusted LTT to get accurate info in my purchasing decision that cost in the thousand $$$ that means a lot. You don't need to ask permission to LMG when they were the ones who fired the first shot, what nexus did was just factual retaliation which anyone would appreciate more than a guy who is a wolf in sheeps clothing. If you've watched Linus for a long time(like me i've watched him even during the ncix days because of esther honestly) you will see the changes in character from someone who was genuine to someone who is pretending to be one. At the end of the day, you watch LMG shows to get accurate info with some entertainment but if all the info is just fake then what's the purpose of a tech channel?!
Why the f, dont they just help each other, instead of bashing each other. They have collabed before. I would have rather have had Nexus to contact Linus to inform about the errors. I dont like any of them, but this looks like dramahunting, and "im better than you" kids games
A member of LTT's Labs team literally made false claims on camera about GN's and HUB's testing methodologies to make Labs seem better than them before they have even finished setting Labs up. LTT started this, and have been in a quality decline for YEARS now.
1:15 Not just ego, but actually the Labs person having no idea what happens in tech review space. Hardware Unboxed constantly do hardware retests. So Labs do the same thing as HUB Steve, but still end up with worse results. Basically Linus made a gold controller, again.
too be fair, Linus did publicly respond to a lot of the issues before Gamers Nexus video so Gamers Nexus may not have felt it necessary to reach out for a further comment
That sentence makes little to no sense, but I believe its one of the 2 things hopefully you can confirm LTT didn't respond PRIOR otherwise that wouldn't be a response... so I don't think it's this one IF you meant LTT COULD have responded to these issues themselves prior and then GN wouldn't have needed to reach out or even do the video in the 1st place then 100% agree with you Either way all the best 👍
@klansimpson apologies I was referring to Linus' response on WAN show regarding fitting the cooler on the incorrect gpu for the testing. I wasn't referring to his response to Gamers Nexus but rather his response to WAN show fans regarding the cooler video
Can you please add the story of Trust Me Bro and the subsquent profiteering on printing t-shirts? That I think is also telling of the trajectory and context between Steve and Linus.
I loved your video. Like many ive been bumming around youtube trying to get a "complete" idea of whats going on. Youve done a great job on that! Sad week though 😔
I said this on the first GN video and I'll say it here. LTT is more of a "hey look at what you can do with dumb amounts of money" instead of a reviewer like the pool cooling video. Any tech thing I want to research besides PC parts I look for a dedicated reviewer for said product category. GN accepting fault and openly showing they messed up and how to fix it is more respectable than LMG even before this. I'll still watch those amazing fantastical things LMG puts out and not watch many of any of the real reviews videos
That means you're tech-savvy enough to be aware of that. I can only assume most non tech-savvy that want a tech purchasing advice will still turns to LTT due to high sub count that can be perceived as trustworthiness.
Hopefully compiling the whole situation in one place makes it easier for you guys to understand the situation. I saw a lot of people get pieces of the story wrong because they only saw parts of it. I combined my thoughts with the events that take place, but feel free to make your own opinion on what has happened so far.
Also, sorry for the audio I'm in Tokyo and my hotel room was louder believe it or not.
The absolutely balls to stand in a tokyo station talking to a camera for however long is commendable enough.
Great TLDR; video 👌
Cool
honest question: did linus reach out to billet before publishing their reviews? did mouse teflon reviewer do it?
My only critic of this is your opinion on Steve not reaching out for comment. No disrespect meant to wards you whatsoever but you must not spend much time on RUclips in the “drama” space. Majority of creators don’t reach out for comment before dropping “drama” bombs.
Are people actually saying Steve doesn’t have anything to gain from this. Personally I feel like that’s pretty obvious being that he’s creating content on RUclips no?
Overall a really good video, i agree entirely with most of your conclusions.
But you got some of the billet details very wrong, you didnt mention comms got Coltoned (its unbelievable but for.... Colton - would have been worth explaining just how special he is), and i think its worth mentioning the demands Madison said were excessive is 1 post an hour plus 4 hours ea for 2 BTS clips a week average. Also worth mentioning that LMG isnt exactly an inclusive workplace, something Linus has tried to defend with 'our yt bearded guys are diverse, really'. Certainly a person with a mobility impairment would be unable to work there.
I also think it would have been worth mentioning Hanlon's Razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." lol
I'm looking forward to someone making a smaller video to condense what Kris just said.
And I am looking forward for someone making a smaller video to condense what the person said condensing what Kris just said
I'm looking forward to someone making a smaller comment to condense what @dryster123 just said.
someone please condense what everyone in this thread has said
Here you go: Linus fucked up, trying to fix it now. ooga booga
And I'm just simply looking so at least some progress has been made.
Pro tip when considering to buy something:
- Do your own research
- Look at what multiple different sources say about the thing
Don't just watch one video and decide.
Yea that’s true I try to tell people go by your own interests and instincts as a computer builder I do go by reviews sometimes but when a gpu test is being wrong when I tell a customer I feel like bad for telling them to go buy said items
Yeah and don't watch LTT
Another little tip - check if that source has any obvious bias in the products they review.
People do NOT think like this. IMO, it’s one of the largest roots of this problem. LMG introduces you and piques your interest so you actually have the attention span to look into the product. It can be a grueling task.
don't, value your time
As a person who has spent over 1000 dollars on a custom keyboard setup, I can confirm his billet labs point. We are influenced by these kinds of reviews.
It is curious that one can say this without burning in shame, interesting world we live in.
@@mikolajwitkowski8093what’s wrong with spending ur extra cash on something you like and use a lot lol. Women spend tons on makeup. My friend just put thousands in parts into his already expensive car. So what if you make a nice keyboard lmao
Very much so with camera's too, lots of people get burned by Sony's 50fps limits on their cameras from RUclipsrs leaving that con out of their reviews, when everyone else is doing 60fps.
You're officially messed up then that on the actual computer setup I had the money but I'm only a kid 15 and I only about $800 computer
@@ericneo2 You are aware, that you can't really record anywhere in 60fps right? Same goes with 30fps. If you get it wrong you will get flickering under lights that aren't made for filming, which sony cameras don't let you switch from PAL to NTSC?, I don't own all sony cameras, but mine is able to switch easily with just one reset and format of a card
When Kris says he’s way more active on twitch and is technically not wrong because 1 stream a month is technically way more than 1 RUclips video a year 🙃🙃🙃
im glad we finally got our yearly upload, I hope you’ve been well Kris. I haven’t watched your streams in a while but I remember they used to make me really happy when I used too during a time I was really struggling, thank you for lose memories and moments of happiness
It’s nice to see your name dude I remember you always being sweet
@@KristoferYeehi
@@KristoferYee that guy is LTT LABS' andrew tate...
I second this I use to watch kris during 2020 and honestly it helped with my mental health during the time alot, being part of what we called the kindergarten which typically lurked in the chat when he wasn't streaming was great and I made some good freinds during that time, wish I had more time to watch now days.
@@notrixamoris3318 ?
I love LMG for entertainment and a very very brief idea of the products, but I've never trusted their reviews as guidance.
It is good not to trust anybody on the old interweb completely....we all need to do our own research even if it means turning off our PC and getting in our car heaven forbid and looking for a trusted source...
@@wslcfarm WTF are you on about? Get in your car and look for a trusted source? Are you going into some alleyways and asking the crackhead what his favorite GPU is? GTFO your comment is so ignorant.
Same
When I saw the entertainment that involves seeing BTS and how Linus true face off cam. I hope Linus takes it easy on himself workloadwise. and change for the better.
they market themselves as trustworthy and indepth though, thats what the entire point of the labs was...
It's so sad that Linus decided to bash on Billet Labs so much since there is actually a purpose to their product besides just being just an expensive water block. The Monoblock was specifically designed to take up as little space as possible for certain SFF builds with tight tolerances. Looking at the comparable GPU and CPU blocks from EK, its around $100 more expensive, but also still takes up more space. This can sometimes be too much for some cases, making the Monoblock really the only solution for a couple of liquid cooled SFF builds.
His take on that was SO bad. The literally provided a 3090 and full instructions but Linus thinks stuff should work without instructions and 'why would you put it on an older GPU'. Then he was just 'it wasn't worth someone's time to fix no matter the cost'.
And......... why the f is COLTON _managing_ business comms. The guy who copyright struck their own channel, then thought they were joking when they fired him and just turned up to work the next day? Twice?
How do you even manage to send an email with nobody in the To: field?? I honestly wouldnt believe it if it wasnt ..... Colton.
And his hypocrisy in complaining he hadn't been reached out to for comment when he literally just did the same thing to Billet. Also recall him complaining on the WAN show about a prototype backpack that was sold without his approval...
I lead an investment firm with offices in oceania. We invest in some startups and projects. I will get my team to reach out to billet labs.
Where was the card that they provided for the testing
@@Reedith some employee probably just took it lol. Seeing those intel $5000 extreme tech renovation videos they would always go over how their employees just took stuff from the inventory
They seem to have got stuck between being mostly entertainment and providing accurate, unbiased information. It's easier to take all sorts of sponsorship when you are just doing entertainment. The tension between reviewing stuff while said stuff is providing you income is one that pre-dates the internet and YT content, etc.
"we didnt sell it we auctioned it" this was way to funny
It was give to them and so it was in their right to do so ✅
@@maximecj5095 It was loaned to them to test out... They didn't give them their only prototype that wouldn't make any sense.
@@maximecj5095no it definitely was not
I do want to chime in about Steve with GN, he's done investigative journalism a lot, and from the perspective of investigative journalism by reaching out before hand the story could have changed, it would have given LTT the opportunity to cover up the billet labs issue and say that they had already discussed with them to resolve the issue before the video was released to undermine the allegations.
And to figure out that Billet hadnt received their reply because it got Coltoned
@mycosys I have no idea what "Coltoned" is supposed to mean. But assuming you mean that there was supposedly an error in sending the email, well, I don't actually believe what LTT said about that. That just struck me as a PR move that was trying to do damage control. Straight up, the only thing that reaching out would have done would have been to show LTT to start early damage control to cover up how shittily they acted in the situation.
Edit: With how much joking was in that video, I don't believe any of it. They should have shut up and been serious for once, no jokes and no plugs or monetization.
@@CodyKillebrew Sure, it's possible that's a story. But I will absolutely believe in E-Mail f*** ups. Been there done that, though not for anything this important. It's not a good look and not a good thing, but they straight up said that.
@CodyKillebrew So they faked an email with timestamps as a pr move? I highly doubt that. And in regards to your edit the video is 95% serious. The allegations up to that point were not *that egregious. The goal of the video I belive was to say yes we fucked up and yes we're trying to fix it but we are still gonna give off the same vibes and not do a 180 in tone and direction.
Edit: also if Steve reached out for comment after he had compiled his piece then he could ask billet labs if there had been a change in communication after that point. There would be no covering anything up.
@@CodyKillebrew Colton is one of their longest term employees. The same one who sent the 'at least it isnt on a shelf' email.
He copyright struck their own main channel, got fired, and then turned up to work the next day because he thought Linus was joking. Twice. Then got promoted to manager.
If you dont know the history of Colton it seems unbelievable someone would leave their subject out of the to: field. Knowing it was Colton mainly just makes me ask why the hell a guy so inept and bad at social context is in comms.
If there is one person, out of all of the reviewers, that you do not want to be on his bad side is Steve. There is no one more thorough in their reviews that him and GN, and he seems at least to be a man with a lot of integrity and love for the community.
Gamers nexus is horrible entertainment.
Lmg could make countless errors and I'm still going to listen becuase its entertainment. Those errors add to the entertainment.
@@isaarunarom7830 Good, as long as it considers itself an entertainment channel, and not something that's trying to inform anyone about anything.
@@isaarunarom7830An error in a thorough product review is fun? What if thousands of people then go and buy the product cause LTT said it's 300% better than last gen? (this actually happened). That's not entertainment, that's wrong. LTT is a joke. They should stick to goofing around, not to product reviews.
LMG wants to have its cake and eat it too. Terrible , inaccurate testing and tons of excuses to justify it. They have to decide if they want to be clowns or if they want to be respected and trusted.@@isaarunarom7830
@@isaarunarom7830gotta say I’m not a fan of LTT but I agree. GamersNexus is about as entertaining as it is to watch paint dry.
Why would Steve want to reach out to Linus, look how he acts and their group just tries to cover up their mistakes. He had no obligation to reach out and it even with Linus' replying it changed nothing.
We would've known if Kris reached out to Steve and asked for his opinion on this video before publishing it. Seriously though, I'm not sure how honest that expectation was if Kris doesn't do the thing he expects others to do. It seems more like some rhetoric thrown in for the Linus fans, not something he himself actually believes in
Kris isn't proclaiming himself to be a journalist though (despite the journalistic impartiality with which he summed up this situation). Steve actually was and is doing that @@NJ-wb1cz.
@@NJ-wb1cz It's also the case that Comment from Linus was included in Steve's video - Just not the comment Linus would have liked
Namely they included their publice response from the WAN show where linus said that they where not going to do a longform response to the issue - If saying that on your weekly podcast with millions of views isn't the clearest form of "No Comment" I don't know what is....
@@NJ-wb1czbecause Kris wasn't making a 45 minute long investigative video solely about GN, just summing up the discourse and sprinkling in his own thoughts.
And I think you're mistaken by pushing this as a thing where you need to pick a side. Everybody's made missteps in this situation, some far more grave than others, but missteps none the less. Kris can critique some of GN's holier-than-thou rhetoric while still being entirely against what LMG has been pulling.
I betting the guys that made that 100 mill offer are breathing a huge sigh of relief now ..talk about dodging the bullet.. lol
I don’t really understand why you would pay $100 million for a company that only makes like a couple million a year… I almost feel like this offer is BS just like this BS artist Linus has always been. Dude would literally trade your life for 100 bucks. This guy is the epitome of greed.
@@ZxAMobile because media companies are worth a lot more than their turnover or profit, there are non-monetary factors (such as reach, influence, trust, audience metrics) that can significantly impact their value. They are making quite a bit more than a 'couple million' a year too, their product and labs investments alone over the last 2 years likely cost LMG a more than a couple million a year, I wouldn't have any doubt the $100m offer is accurate.
@@ZxAMobileuh they make around 30 million per year with their channels and floatplane subs, and their assets like the buildings and hardware/software development, not to mention just the market dominance they have in the technology field, so yeah it makes sense for them to turn it down, they make that in revenue within at least 3-5 years
@@ZxAMobile Linus literally has a feature unlocked to him from youtube to be able to upload and edit videos in place; nobody else in the tech sphere has that feature. It's not unreasonable to think the subscriber inertia (or bot farms) just also automatically give every LMG video 10 million views before any real eyes watch it, inflating the asking for ad revenue.
If he was the epitome of greed he would have sold the company and become a multi-millionaire @@ZxAMobile.
Wasn't Madison essentially a fan hire? Shame it went badly, but I guess that puts an end to community driven hires.
Somewhat yeah. Though Madison didn't want to do it in the first place because his brother died when she got the offer
Unfortunately I feel really bad for Madison and aren’t trying to victim blame but Ltt can’t be held responsible so matter what they said about things like someone having bad mental health and causing harm instead of owning up to responsibilities
F#$K me just listen to your disgusting selves?
Fan hire, so it's potentially okay to bully, harass and sexually assult her, or anybody??
Maybe she wasn't a great fit, it happens. A good organisation and a good team or family helps, not puts someone down.
FFS. Next time you all look in the mirror, look deeply into your own eyes for 10 seconds and say loudly "I must not be a twat"
@@SpikeletTheBoss LTT certainly can be held responsible for their actions however. If anything, they need to learn to treat their employees better in the future.
@@SpikeletTheBoss Madison also seemed to have a serious misunderstanding of what professional social media work is like or even just corporate work in general, that or the operational processes and cross-team communications at LMG must be on par with government or non-existent.
The issue is more due to Linus knowing he was wrong and covering it up over and over, when he got caught doing it he fumbled even more. He deserved to get called out.
I disagree that a journalist has to reach out to a huge corporation for comment every time they want to report on it. Especially when any comment probably won't affect the commentary at all.
The only good that "Reaching out" here does is to give LMG a chance to convince Steve to NOT publish his video or criticism. Which is, you know, not really in public interest.
It also gives the corporation an opportunity to just waste time or even pre-emptively strike back at you.
What's the point?
This is a public issue already and shoud be discussed - PUBLICALLY. If Linus had something extraordinary to say that made everything OK - I'm sure Steve would be publishing a retraction. But he did his due dilligence, gathered information independently from his own sources. Nothing that Linus can say will change that information.
TLDR: No, press should NOT be required to give the corporations a heads-up before they publish something. That is asking for corruption.
Considering what LMG _actually tried_ a cover-up in regards to that water block, I don't think Steve's explanation of why GN didn't reach out beforehand is disingenuous. If you believe you're dealing with people who would try a cover-up, you want to give them as little time for that cover-up as possible.
I do appreciate lmg giving billet labs a heads up before publishing their video on their product so they could clear up any misinformation and ensure they installed it correctly lol
@@cpin5224 The really decent thing to do would have been to just decline to review it, as it's clear they weren't going to recommend it no matter what. If they just needed a weird piece of hardware to low-effort clown on, there's plenty available from major brands.
Let's be real, Linus isn't mad, because he couldn't hand in a statement, he wanted to keep it out of the public. If I had a dollar for every time some influencer acts all tough business guy when they criticise others publicly, but buddy buddy "you could have talked to me" when they themselves get criticised....
Bless you for making this. We need more RUclipsrs like you. Whenever there's some site controversy, I hate having to go through hours of content from the involved parties or watch endless commentary videos milking the situation for content. Thank you, sir.
And,LTT LOST A FRIGGIN' 3090 TI,that was send for the testing by Billet Labs!!!
P.S.Maddison tale was supported by one of the ex-LMG employees.
A second one has also come out stating what she said at the time is consistent
@@baconwizardWho? I only saw one!
Pfft same thing happened with the dream situation (content creator) just false accusations and it was proven to be
That's wrong. Neither lmg or gamers nexus reach out when they slam corporations nor do they have to. Linus has repeatedly trashed eufy, anchor, and jasco switches on wan. Its literally his attempt to control the narrative.
It’s better for accurate and ethical journalistic practices to reach out and get both sides of the argument.
However, it isn’t good politics. Linus could’ve released a hit piece on Gamers Nexus just before Games Nexus published their video, and made Gamers Nexus look defensive.
Journalistically, that shouldn’t matter. But that’s kind of like being a pacifist in a war zone. Sure, you are the more admirable person. You also will almost certainly get shot and die.
And that isn’t to say there’s anything ethically wrong with only telling one side of a story. Provided you seek to only share the truth and don’t hide anything, then you’re ethically ok. It’s just not the most ethical and accurate reporting practice for journalism.
I hate that we live in a reality where truth can be squashed by politics. But we do live in that reality. And whether you think gamers nexus should’ve reached out for comment or not, you should acknowledge there are very compelling reasons on both sides. Even if you think one is much worse than the other.
@@Mathignihilcehk it's not about politics. Look at the eufy situation. The media reached out multiple times and they were lied to. If a company's ethics are off it won't matter what you do they will tell you whatever they think you want to hear. Even the Asus boards that were killing x3D chips. People reached out but the legal team stepped in and the only statements that were released were boiler plate. It is better to have both sides but if the other side is dishonest, won't tell the truth, or refuses to acknowledge it then it's a waste of time. Not every situation requires both sides. And the fact they lied and said every time they release a new comparison chart in a video it's new data and test. They were lying about That so there is no reason for Steve to reach out.
I am far from being an IT expert, but I’m never going to forget to remove protective plastic from a mouse.
Remove plastic tape from a mouse is not IT.
Maybe because you never had smoked or sniffed good "shits" during your working hours
i have a Kone Aimo, its a great mouse, but i noticed that it has way more resistance when the plastic was removed......so i put it back on. i have it that way for half a year now, its great
You say that but what if the plastic isn’t obvious? The material of the slides was supposed to be PTFE or glass, two materials that can be shiny and would be difficult to see a piece of clear plastic on. That is made even worse if the plastic is fit exactly to the pads so there is no pull tab or anything, in that case it would be very easy to miss.
@@conorstewart2214 that not the point. The company contacted them told them that they should remove plastic tab. And they still didn’t retest and update the video. Oh no that would cost $100 to do that. IRRESPONSIBLE!
Over my years of building pcs and looking for info, I’ve learned to watch specific RUclipsrs for certain things, for mice and mouse pad reviews, I watch boardzy, pc building/benchmarking JayzTwoCents and gamersnexus, I’ve never really watched any LMG content for reviews, their videos always seemed more of a we shoot for content type instead of actually taking their reviews seriously.
Oh God, ALL YTers shoot videos for content! Cmon bro Kristopher is making this one following the same concept. In my opinion all GN has done is leave me with fewer YT content for me to watch!
@@bury101 all I mean by “content” is their videos to me seemed more like something you’d watch for entertainment instead of actually trying to get information about something, not saying that lmg doesn’t put useful information in their videos, it’s just I know that Jay or GN are usually super transparent about every piece of gear they review, and if something is brought up that they messed up, they will address it in another video and own up to it if they were wrong.
It always confuses me that people dont go to esport pros/streamers. If you're into shooters theirs hundreds of in depth reviews of mice and mousepads that go in to how it might effect your style of aiming and try to explain how to judge which mouse works best for your personal setup instead of trying to claim its good or bad
@@nicholasirizarry6068i watched only of their video and it was old and good it was about drm on the ssd
Like top gear is to cars now, LTT is for tech. It's no longer about the cars.
Love the fact that you're not doing the usual holier-than-thou-schtick that both Steve and Linus are engaging in, big ups
0:03 Ah yes, the "Gamers Nexus problem". Too long to watch, so most people just watch bits of it and come to the wrong conclusion.
Remember the "AIO liquid cooler" thing? People obviously didn't watch the whole thing, and another RUclips channel had to explain that "it is fine to put the tubes below the pump unless a portion of the radiator is still above it".
it isnt drama, its an actual problem
true. I don't think Steve ever needed to contact lmg prior to making his video. obviously this means he can't call himself a friend of linus anymore, but that doesn't matter as long as we consumers r treated in a better way on utube.
Why would you inform a competitor prior to openly criticising them for offering an inferior product (i.e. false reviews)?
Especially when they have mentioned you by name as an inferior competitor in a video?
It's a review channel, it's not a big deal.
The problem with the clip at 2:13 is that in the clip, Linus was trying to justify his ego and the 'trust me bro' situation and didnt like that viewers were calling out his bullshit. 😅
That one was my favorite. Trust me bro gauranteed I'd never spend a dime with them.
@joolsstoo3085 This got a good laugh out of me. Thanks for making my day a little bit better. 😂
Kris sweating like a sinner in Church, but still delivering the HEAT.
I don’t blame Steve dropping a nuke and not telling them about it.
Yeah, Steve was put in a shitty situation in the first place and did the best he could. As shown in this recent drama Linus has a history of clapping back at others in a very unprofessional manner during his live streams. To say Steve could've done better on his side just doesn't make sense, he DID do better than Linus.
Linus is not getting called out for one small thing, he's getting called out after a history of acting unprofessional and giving unprofessional petty emotional criticism to companies that didn't deserve it. He's hurting people. Asking Steve to take the high road is just silly, when the rest of the community had already been treating Linus with way more leniency than he deserves.
A good summary, but you missed out the bit around the emails relating to the water block and that LMG had apparently attempted to reach out and rectify the situation with the company BEFORE Steve’s video. Only LMG staff lack the skills to cc in the correct people - which I’m not sure is overall better or worse for their look as a professional organisation
Sure would've been nice if that was figured out before the GN video went live, which is why it's important to let both sides present their side of the story. But Tech Jesus doesn't need that. He already knows everything.
@@jfolzthey DIDN'T "already come to an arrangement", but Linus stated they HAD, they might have TRIED to email BUT they DIDN'T, they WOULD have tried to neutalize the situation if Steve had given them a heads up and that isn't right. Steve didn't need to reach out for proof from LTT/LMG either way as he had, spoken with Billet (1 of the 2 parties and had proof from THEM), and was sourcing LOTS of evidence from the videos full of errors he showed (LTT/LMG's own content) AND Linus's own words when a member of staff TRIED to get his boss to do the right thing on the WAN show (again LTT/LMG uploaded that themselves, smoking barrel stuff).
Someone shoots someone dead and you have it on 4K CCTV, caught them holding the gun read handed and there was lots of credible witnesses, you DON'T need a confession to convict them for it, you have enough evidence already.
14:35 I love you said this because as someone who is just looking back on the drama in hindsight, it feels like drama, because it was kind of like a sneak attack to someone who apparently was a friend
Nah, not tipping LMG off was the good move. He probably didn't trust they wouldn't use their massive resources and people to quickly pull some miracle sweep under the rug before GN could do anything.
This lady Madison... the one that inflicted self harm to get a day off... I don't know if that's someone you'd want to take the opinion of seriously. No amount of work pressure should result in that to a mentally stable person. She eventually quit, so it's not like they had her contract written in Avernus.
she was mentally stable, before joining the cult which is linus media group. get your facts straight.
I'm sure that Madison did have some legit issues at LMG, but any time I hear some Gen Z barely 20-something "complain" about how awful their job is I just roll my eyes like an involuntary response. Then when you start talking about literally sending yourself to the ER risking death by exsanguination or infection, that's not hating your job, that's mental illness.
She made that up and now getting away with false accusing LLT Team ? wtf I don’t agree with everything LLT Team do but this is disgusting modern women behaviour and she need to held accountable for her bad behaviour
The 3rd party investigation thing will pivot entirely on whether Madison participates. If she does, the third party investigator will be able to get names, places, etc. and then compare them to statements and records from the employees involved. It goes one of two ways - either most of the elements of her story are inconsistent with reality (such as saying x happened before y but the only possible sequence of events is y first and then x), or the elements of her story are all plausible and come down to whether the other person admits to doing it.
If Madison does not talk to the 3rd party investigator, or if she refuses to provide names, dates, and places, no conclusion to the accuracy of her story can be drawn.
A parallel to this is the 3rd party investigation into the Indiana Batmobile arrest drama. Some of the people responsible for the misconduct refused to participate in the investigation, which is their right, but the investigation makes them look bad.
She wont it will end her victim Cred as all METOOers are She didnt go to the third party group before the issue. Reminder that meeting happened less than a day after she quit over the phone you cant exactly spawn a contract with a group like that overnight.
Investigations is wrong way to do it - just admit th workplace has issues and actively bring in people to train your staff to act correctly, create an inhouse processes and environment where toxicity, no matter what strength, is a non-starting situation. If it needs to start at the top so be it - no more 'boys will be boys' videos, LMG is no longer a small bunch of guys pushing the edge, ...... lets do it right people....
@@RamonInNZor you know she is the problem not what 119 others?
If HR had been doing their job and documenting treatment, events and issues raised there would be a history to refer back to. The sexual assaulter needs to be investigated and be been fired if results point to it being true. Training is not going to fix other people still having to work with them so they need to go.
99.99% of the crap on LMG is pointless and stupid and not point in buying it. the average gamer doesnt need any of the 1000's of products that is shown on LMG
i strongly disagree with the reaching out. in the forum respones linus did make it sound as if he had contacted billet before the gn video which wasn't the case. if he had contacted him before he easily could've make it seem as if he contacted them without it having anything to do with gn.
steve was spot on in his reasoning
i disagree that Steve should have reached out to LMG for a comment. we should be doing the same for other, let me remind you, multi million dollar companies. the tech review space as a whole (including ethical issues) needs to stop believing what the PR response is for these mega companies.
What happened with AMD Radeon 6000 series and Intel Arc was impressive. They need to retest. Both lines of cards had really good improvements
I had already stopped watching LMG videos because of errors and inconsistencies. I also knew I couldn't trust him as soon as the "just trust me bro" thing happened. If you're really ready to stand behind something putting it in writing is no big deal. It also told me how self righteous and our of touch he is. That added to the lack of consistent data and the unbalanced and inconsistent approach they use to describe products and their opinion of it and the projects they do, I was done already. It is just a bunch of fluff.
I didn't go over and start watching another review because I watch every one I can within reason. I just stopped watching them. The funny thing is I was an OG supporter on Floatplane. I am still on Floatplane but stopped giving LMG money. I kept my other subscriptions.
Yeah im still watching, i dont buy a lot of stuff anyway and most of their stuff is accurate
All people make mistakes chill bro
Steve turned off monetization, so how did he really gain? Sorry but i disagree. Steve did the right thing. Maybe the LTT lab tech shouldn't have run his mouth. Now onto Madison.
Btw, how harsh do you want him to be. Steve basically is now holding every youtube creator accountable. Which is a good standard. I dont want to buy a 1000 part based on inaccurate information.
Great Job Steve!!!
Thanks steve
Good job. Not wanting to deep dive on the LMG drama, I got all the info I wanted to know about one of my favorite channels.
Linus will review a blender and complain about strawberry seeds.
and then build a better blender and complain about the blendtech factory miscommunicating about Panton Colors, because why is it so hard to match panton colors? He him self bougth offical panton color reference after making fun about adobe and panton for monetizing the mapping of Panton to RGB and CYMK.
Complain about the taste of cardboard too after failing to remove it while unboxing
I still don’t understand why anyone hates this guy? Like nobody is able to say in a single sentence what he did to make you dislike him ?
So did you reach out to Steve?
Yeah.. I am seeing this guy is more on linus's sides.. Biased
Yeah GN was a little too overboard on the situation.. If you listened to the Labs team tour guide HE himself Specifically stated "SOMEBODY liiiikee GN or anyone who IS similar" by example. Not who IS, GN and so on... ppl miss-read the situation by just a short clip....
If I was Steve, my concern would be that LMG could slow walk a response to buy them time to sanitize videos and mitigate the overall impact of Steve’s video. But what Linus said on the WAN show about the water block does offer insight into his casual relationship with professionalism.
I have never been a fan of Linus anyway, I prefer other influencers, he always seemed to be incompetent or not sure about what he was talking about, like he was always talking out of his ass, and now it seems it's bit him in the ass
Madison part aged like fine milk.
Hope you are doin alright just checking in and miss your new videos can’t wait for your return and I hope your having a good year in 2024 so far
Steve from GN defend himself and HUB with a fair shopping list of critique about data and quality
Linus dug a bigger hole due to doubling down and became the biggest bag fumbler
Madison stuff is the killshot on top
It was a perfect shitstorm that brewed and broke the camel back.
I'm busy and I don't watch long videos during this period, but your video is well-made, and I watched every minute of it.
Good job and thanks.
Thank you for making this video Kris, honestly didn't want to go through every single thread in twitter nor watch any of both LTT's or Steve's videos. At least this was condensed, and hopefully everything gets solved soon.
I cannot agree with your take on "reaching out for comment", Gamers Nexus & LMG's relationship could very easily be used, by either party, in an unethical manner, it's easier to get information from friends/peers. This was 100% a time NOT reaching out was the correct and ethical call. By not talking to Linus about this ahead of time we got to see the true Linus, a person willing to lie and misslead in order to cover up his companies mistakes, the Billet Labs original story was bad, the flat out lies about how it was handled were way worse.
Did YOU reach out to GN to mention you were gonna give this opinion about them?
Nah hypocrisy works so well after all😅
Honestly, I was rolling my eyes when he started taking a dig at Steve like wtf? Sounds like he's cozying up to Linus lol!
@@fabiodlx he's a personal friend, so makes sense. This is exactly what Steve mentioned also, can't let his personal relationship enter into it, it would be unfair on other companies, though he was REAL gentle honestly, as much as he could be considering
@@klansimpson Aah, a personal friend? Now it makes sense.
dogs calling this guy egotistical when gamers nexus made a 45 minute video in response to what one unknown dude said in like 5 seconds.. RIP
Well I don't think LMG comparing themselves with Gamer's Nexus was a low kick or anything like that. It would have been perfectoy fair if they really did their job well.
As a french student journalist, I think we should normalise not reaching for comments. Big organisations take advantage of this practice to pressure journalists, destroy evidences ou prepare a twisted narative.
The Billet Lab incident is really speaking because Linus think he's legitimate not to share informations (x cost y, does z) or conditional recommandation (you shouldn't take it if you're looking for x or y) but closed decision (nobody should take it in any situation). That's not journalism.
GN did not reached LTT mainly because they know Linus and how he will react. I do think this was the best possible way to handle it, if Linus was someone you can have a conversation with I think Steve would have reached out.
TBH, it seems like the CEO has things well under control. Except Linus himself. They should’ve muzzled him.
If the apology video came out without Linus’s comment, that would’ve been a way better look for LTT. He literally just made everything worse.
I’m not sure how the CEO could’ve told the owner “shut up. I’ve got this. If you butt in now, you’ll make everything worse”. But really, there’s never a good reason to get in front of your company’s PR unless you’re sacrificing your own reputation and admitting guilt. The company can have multiple people review the PR statement, make sure it’s good, and then submit it. Why would you take on the responsibility of putting out a proper response? It’s like sponge Bob subbing in for a lawyer. I guess you can, but WHY!?!
@@Mathignihilcehk I guess he really thinks he knows better than everyone, and he cannot be more wrong. He missed a good opportunity to not say a word. I agree that the video would have been better without him, people doesn’t trust a single word coming out of his mouth
Linus can say what he wants its whatever, I dont want a corporate by the script Linus. Its up to the people to watch multiple videos anyways and they'll just buy a similar product if its life or death for them to buy an 800 waterblock, lmao. Also this is going to be an unhinged take but going back to college and listening to gen Z bitch about their first time working hard sounds exactly like Madison; nearly verbatim. I caught them in lies when they make situations sound grander than it is because "work hard". I will concede that job creep is kind of nuts in some areas and people are expected to do more but what she was allegedly expected to do at this company isn't really far off from the standard of a social media content creator. Like a couple tiktoks and social posts that you can get an AI to write most of for you, in an 8 hour time block? I'm so, so sorry. She would hate to see what nearly every other job ever expects you to get done.
Arbitrary and self imposed deadlines are super common. I think it's a people management/efficiency method.
I agree with steve
You dont need to get comments or permission to post a factually true story
Shit take from you, expected more. Steve was absolutely correct.
Omg Kris I am glad u started to upload again i really miss your streams 😢 idk if you still do but i hope too see more videos on RUclips WHAT A GREAT VIDEO !!!!!!
When you mention the issue with Steve not asking context to Linus, it looks weird, why? Because LTT has never asked anything to other companies whenever they do their "rants" or complain about how others handle difficult situations.
Imagine expecting GNSteve to spend 50$ worth of his time to write a email. /s
Actually they did it a lot of times
Good breakdown, Good point that Steve could of requested for a comment before posting maybe. Believe he says in his video that since Linus has made a statement about all issues already during his previous podcasts or from a tweet, Steve is using that as LTT's response to the many dramas that unfolded and decided to make a judgement call on uploading the video without comment from Linus or LMG.. Not sure why the comment about how Steve is partially motivated by money or something and that's why he did it? Just because one brings up a bigger company, doesn't mean they wanted to just for exposure, Steve's character doesn't follow the argument you are trying to make with your statement, it only reminds us on why you decided to bring up this video...basically to get in on the action right? a "slice" of that good money from this 'drama' lol. You did bring up how you mention bigger companies before and it helped your views and whether you were motivated to just trying to get more exposure or you were actually trying to convey good arguments against bad practices, then it's something that needs to be done.
Guess Linus just got too big and needed to be humbly reminded that it's okay to make mistakes and just try to do better measures to avoid the same type of mistakes in the future. Even in his 'Ukulele' response he starts off by making excuses for his actions. His track record has been pretty bad, I use to watch Linus and NCIX vids back when he was shooting in the parking lot. The past few years isn't my style of entertainment as I'd rather get some feedback from other CC's than LTT's and i'm not looking for his downfall by any means but his actions are def showing who he is.
DUDE show more respect when you are in Japan, you are filming on private property in a Japanese train station dropping constant f-bombs and swearing when a cleaner is literally right behind you 4:58 is totally distressful, try this in Singapore or mainland china and you will get cited or thrown into jail.
Poor little Madison. She's obviously mentally ill - a cutter by her own admission. Some of what she says is likely true, but she was an under-performing employee looking for excuses.
She was successfully doing the work it takes six to do now.
Finally! Someone who gives an honest and open opinion without slamming everyone involved. Great work Kris!
True, but I disagree about his opinion to letting someone know before publishing an article- it makes no sense and Steve already explained why it would have been detrimental
I don't believe Madison! I don't believe the death threats. I don't believe the leg cutting. And when someone is that whiny you know something's wrong with them. Sounds like she's acting the victim to the hilt! Also, why did she wait till that particular moment to say anything about all of this? I sincerely believe that she is being paid by someone to make Linus look bad, and of course if someone is being paid they will say anything. She needs to go home, take her Prozac, and take a nap.
What bugs me the most is how many people are saying it's steve's fault for not contacting Linus about this,
and others who are blowing off the sexual innuendo at the meeting.
MY big thing is how many people have blown off the the kid who got the play button, and then got harassed to the point of taking his life,
and saying there was nothing linus could have done. I think Linus Calling the kid then calling out the fanbase on this might have helped.
Any details on this? Haven't heard about the play button and Google either brings up play button or bullying.
It's noones "fault", really. I mean sometimes in journalism, a journalist will reach out for comment (You often hear "Company X was unavaible for comment", etc), but they don't have to. In this case, steve decided not to, which is perfectly fine.
I do have a point to make about the "sexual innuendo" though. I think a few jokes here and there are fine. People can often get too sensitive about these things, and call "sexism" when it really isn't. Of course, there's a line that you cross, but we don't know if LTT crossed this line. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.
@@Sepultra012 he really should have though. Steve's (self-proclaimed) motivation was to put a spotlight on LMG rushing videos out the door, which leads to factual errors that mislead consumers. The Billet Labs thing was never supposed to be the centerpiece of his argument, but people ran with it and largely ignored the rest. Knowing LMG's side of the story might have allowed him to change his video so that doesn't happen. Like pointing out that LMG was trying to remedy the situation (and making more mistakes in the process...) and were, in fact, not just out to make a quick buck by selling a "priceless prototype". Because that's how people interpreted it, and what I believe Linus was trying (and failing) to express saying it "wasn't sold but auctioned for charity". This is also something where I vehemently disagree with Tech Jesus. The difference between "sale" and "charity auction" is not just semantics, but intent, and that matters a lot in situations like this.
Personally, I would think it would be more appropriate to contact linus before the video went out, but I don't think it's a terribly inappropriate thing to not do that.
By not contacting LTT, it does seem like GN wanted to get the "scoop" to to speak, before LTT could respond, which is, as you said, contrary to Steves self-proclaimed goal of putting a spotlight on LTT, rather than try to generate content for his channel.
I think Linus response was from the heart, and yes, intent does matter. All in all, I feel that LTT is generally guilty of just rushing videos out the door and maybe overworking staff, issues that they are now (seemingly) dealing with. There could also be issues resulting from the change in CEO, enlarging the company, hiring more staff, etc, causing bad communication between departments (That could be in separate buildings, etc).
I don't think LTT is a *bad* company. The worst allegations, at least for me, seemed to be from Madison (Sexism is a LOT worse than just rushing vids out the door and making factual errors) but even here we only have one persons opinion.
There are several employees that have stated that they felt overworked and rushed, noone has mentioned sexism or sexist jokes, etc, as being a problem within LTT.
@@jfolz
@@Sepultra012 As he said in their "apology" video, Terren Tong hasn't been CEO of LMG for long. He's still learning how the company works. Surely there were going to be changes anyhow, else what's the point of hiring a new CEO. That's why the timing of the GN video seems weird to me. And what's with the obvious conflict of interest of one media outlet publishing a hit piece on a competing media outlet, which everyone seems to ignore? I guess Tech Jesus can't do no wrong or something along those lines.
bro came back for the drama. my man.
I couldn't disagree more with the whole "you could have talked with them first". That would have give them time to cover up their mistakes. Also, LTT does not provide with a heads up to the product manufacturer when they upload a harsh review, so...
Did Linus ask Steve before that Ltt guy comment false claim and involve GN ? I don't think so, the quote "You should've reach out to me before" is completely invalid.
Linus bring all this upon himself
Somewhere here we need to have a discussion about the effect of the YT algorithm.
There is just no reward for quality in the way youtube deals with videos. A LOT of creators get it into their brain that they MUST release on time to satisfy the great youutube gods. Maybe if we actually start talking about it, we can get even a little change
I kinda made a small content piece about this recently. Called the uprise of clickbait in tech channels. Mostly focused on how crazy the algorithm has gotten. Any RUclips channel has to basically beat yesterday in a dramatic way. It makes, making content feel a bit forced at times. Tech channels are all falling into this, I not only called myself out but GN, Linus, hardware unboxed, and Jay for all kinda feeding into the clickbait hotnews style content that is honestly not even their fault .
First upload in 6 months :o cool you're back!
Wow u saved me over an hour of watching and explained the whole situation clearly, good job. Keep it up!
Steve not reaching out for comment is hilarious, as it's been know for years his ego is bigger than his hairdoo, and he dislikes and is jealous of LTT. He has been waiting for this chance... yes, yes he has, and now he got it and he sunk his teeth in. I'm not saying Linus didn't deserve it, but to for Steve to act like he was doing anything other than twisting the knife he already stuck Linus with is fucking hilarious.
Cutting your own leg to get a day off work is psychotic behavior 😂
LTT/LMG did shot first... Steve just response.... Also this will be a wake up call for LTT/LMG...
Okay but steve released his video Linus said they already worked out a deal with billet labs but steve talked to them and they said they only talked to linus after the video was released so if steve talked to them first they would have lied and run around doing damage control to back that lie
Bingo They lied and manipulated one of two people at best both and us at worst making this a giant ASS nothing burger
he finally uploaded
Okay, so as someone in film, at least the 0.5 zoom with no stabilization, that kinda has to be that way, there’s no real practical way to stabilize a fully zoomed out camera…
The weird thing about that LTT apology video is the CEO looks so dead on camera. He didn't look into the camera, he didn't seem to ever blink, and you can tell he's reading a teleprompter. That's fine but why do all CEOs seem so stiff and lifeless when they do a presentation?
They are not usually gifted with the gab! Also you can bet the lawyers whent through the statement with a very fine toothed comb!
16:05 this is exactly Steve's point. LMG is not a human nor a creator. It's a mega content machine that doesn't feel or think like humans.
If a company passes a certain point, there's no semblance of a soul left to it. If left alone it will continue to make more and more money. There's no point in trying to be nice if the ultimate message (in this case: your data is shit pls fix) is made less clear just to be more polite.
If you spend time with philosophy or sociology students, you'll see them talking about this same thing a lot. I don't have the best words to describe what I'm trying to get across right now. But I may edit this comment later
In my admittedly biased opinion Linus deserves all of Steve’s harshness and not finding a softer way to deal with it for the following reasons.
1. Linus himself on WAN show has called out companies for their faults multiple times without giving them the chance for comment multiple times or sometimes even spontaneously on Twitter
2. Linus multiple times has harshly called out large companies for their Bull shit and faults (sometimes without previously fact checking if live on WAN show) and then mentioned that the company or leaders might be shit but they have good, valuable and ethical employees under them. So don’t bash the employees and hopefully they can come out stronger and go the right thing.
3. LTT and LMG is a huge company given 100+ employees and 100M+ offer. They deserve as much harshness and critique as Apple, Intel, Etc. If a channel that criticises cannot accept criticism at the same level that they dish out maybe they have a bigger problem. (I acknowledge that it’s not fair to any company or individual to go all out and scorched earth but given that Linus himself has done so he doesn’t deserve any breaks)
4. In any other traditional media organisation, such mishandling would have been been a much bigger issue. Given that Linus is trying to rival that with Labs and covering more things, he deserves more heat. He’s self-admittedly more than an entertainer and cares about the data and information he puts out, thus being able to take valid harsh criticism comes with the territory. (Being emotional is fine as long as it comes with a wholehearted and honest apology that doesn’t sound scripted)
5. In Linuses statement/essay he posted after the first GN video he made incorrect statements especially about the billet labs. Given that I would not be surprised if they went on damage control to fix things before the video went out so they can appear to do the right thing. I agree with Steve that giving LTT and LMG an opportunity to comment would be special treatment and give them the opportunity to cover their asses rather than being honest. (Especially noting how little supporting information they gave in their apology video. This shows that they are a giant media company who cares about saving face first and a friendly/approachable media company that cares about its viewers second)
6. I’m not even gonna approach the Madison issue because I don’t think I have the right to comment. But if any of that is true, he should no longer be on camera or in any management position. Just a silent shareholder. That’s the minimum we would expect from a (giant) media company who messed up that bad anyway.
Thank you I also find it hard to believe LMG deserved softer criticism or approach by Steve and I couldn’t have said why any better myself
"LTT and LMG is a huge company given 100+ employees and 100M+ offer. They deserve as much harshness and critique as Apple, Intel, Etc."
Seriously? LMG is a medium-sized company at best. There's a 10000x valuation difference between them and the companies you mentioned. Even corsair is 15x.
@@jfolz while I agree that LMG is smaller than the companies I mentioned, in my opinion there is a point at which you are big enough to need to be responsible and do the right thing. “We didn’t know how do to ___ right” becomes an invalid excuse once you’re big enough to be able to afford resources and expertise. For the data they have been boasting how good they are and how they have improved for a while, and a few rather simple errors were made. From the HR perspective, Linus has spoken highly from how well he thinks he manages staff and even went to the extent of addressing unions.
TLDR: I agree they are smaller than my listed companies, however, for the issues at hand they are big enough to have known and done better. Now everyone makes mistakes, as long as you recover well from it and don’t make things worse (Arguably Linus’s emotional response and lack of fact checking before posting it was the first domino since GN’s video). We will see how LMG does but they deserve harsh criticism for where they are now. While they have lost my support for now and I don’t agree with them on many things, I do hope they bounce back and the right people are reprimanded or let go as needed (for the HR matter).
@@kushalraj the examples you gave were simply so far out that they didn't make any sense. I also don't see how you get from firing himself and hiring a new CEO to Linus thinking he's an amazing manager. They simply grew too quickly and processes hadn't kept up, which they were keenly aware of already. The interview video they themselves published, used by GN in their video, said as much. Evidently things had already started moving at LMG and the GN video only sped things up.
There is a major omission with this video, which changes the entire Billet Labs story. Billet Labs confirmed via email (and there are screenshots of those emails in the LTT apology video), that they sent LTT the Monoblock for LTT to keep so they could use it in future builds if they wanted. That's an important piece to the puzzle, because that invalidates the claims that LTT never had any permission to take or use the monoblock afterwards. (Effectively stealing it) No, they shouldn't have auctioned it, but the timeline of events with that small detail is pretty easy to explain. BL gives LTT the monoblock to test and use for future builds, etc. They catalog it as inventory. BL emails back after the review shitting on them and says on second thought, do you mind give it back to us? LTT says yes, but they fail to pull it out of their inventory (Because they are disorganized), and whomever picked the parts for the auction selected that part.
So there’s two possibilities:
Steve knew Billet initially told LTT to keep it, and he chose to leave it out because it wasn’t part of the narrative he was trying to present.
Steve didn’t know, because Billet didn’t tell him - and Steve chose to publish his video without asking LTT for comment, just taking Billet’s word for everything.
Both possibilities are equally bad. He was either intentionally deceptive, or unintentionally deceptive.
Theres one more piece: Apparently BL told LTT that the monoblock WAS compatible with the 4090 (As in it would mount, but couldnt verify how well it would perform), yet told Steve they stated it SHOULD be compatible. It was only after the review came out did BL try a 4090 and realize it did not fit. If BL indeed told LTT it would work with the 4090, then it's on them for the shitty review, regardless of the GPU they sent with it. If I buy an AM4 cooler and the manufacturer states it is compatible with my AM5 system, and then doesn't fit, is that my fault?
I find it unfair that when people talk LTT and LMG they don't throw the appropriate shade at Yvonne, it's always Linus did this did that... From the apology video I think it was evident who is actually steering and calling the shots for this company. She said she was stopping all video production for the next week. Why didn't the newly hired CEO announce this? I think this is telling and she was also the last person seen on the video, with some say an inappropriate joke and actually did plug one of the company's biggest sponsor's (DBrand). Linus wasn't telling inappropriate jokes or plugging sponsors. There is no other female Dept. Head other then Yvonne, she is the CFO (Chief Financial Officer) and was the Head of HR (when Madison worked there). There is no other female personality in front of the camera more than Yvonne, if any? This is strange for a company of their size and the day and age we are living in. Linus might have stepped down but I don't think Yvonne has... Yvonne has more to do with everything going on than I think people realize. Linus is a good hearted human being... but one must remember there are two owners to this company. Food for thought.
but their bearded yt guys are super diverse. Trust me bro
Do you know what C-Suite people do? Almost everyone over 20 knows.
That's right, they run the company - it's their collective responsibility to ensure the company is successful, grows and runs smoothly. There are serious penalties and laws around mismanagement of a company. It is, just like you and I, a legal entity, and has a lot more rights than an actual human.
Yvonne would have a BIG part of that as the CFO, the new CEO has only been there for 6 weeks and is still learning the business side of LMG - so not making the big decisions just yet.
He'll probably be up and running in the next 2 months or so.
Until then, Yvonne needs to step up and make proper business decisions like closing production down (if she even made that decision - who knows, but they got her to say it on camera, because, frankly, if Linus had said it, eh, who would've taken that seriously?).
Also, using Yvonne is "clever" - she's a familiar face, she's high up in the company, and everyone in the audience knows her - therefore, the thinking is, everybody would take what she says a little more seriously - we know Linus stuffed up, so here's his wife, kicking his butt, and cleaning the mess... see? Very clever.
She also has the job of telling Linus to shut his big trap and let the corporation take the wheel around this issue.
So no... everyone knows that a CFO has a LOT to do with the running of any business - there is no "food for thought" in that statement.
I do agree that she should bear a lot of the blame as well... as the other owner, she must ensure the bugger she married doesn't break the brand down that they've been building.
I agree, it is disturbing (if it's true) that Yvonne was head of HR when Madison worked there - but only if there were any actual complaints made - HR can't do Jack until someone says something.
As far as the joke around DBrand - I don't think anything malicious was involved, or them trying to plug a sponsor, or anything like that...
I think they tried to end the very serious video on a lighter note - it was just in such bad taste, almost laughable.
(You didn't ask for this part, but I thought I'd say something anyway)
My thoughts on the video is that they seriously missed the mark and rushed something out in a panic.
If your C-Level execs can't even speak to the audience without having to read EVERY word from a teleprompter, that means they haven't thought about it properly.
They should have had a statement prepared and published which outlined their intentions, then had a video with the CEO and / or CFO sitting there and giving people the TLDR in a more natural setting. The way they handled it was just a classic example of how not to communicate.
Tip for this video: watch it on 2x speed.
It’ll save you precious time on earth.
Tip: This works with every video actually.
@ … yeah I guess
Completely disagree about GN reaching out to LTT. I'm glad he didn't, Linus tried to gaslight the Billit situation even in his apology video ,if Steve would have reached out he would have covered it all under the rug.
Really well done Kris. Offering perspective and options to storylines to see both sides. Great job reporting and summarizing.
Dude’s making a video in the middle of Shibuya Station, in the middle of Japan’s peak summer season. Hats off.
I disagree with some of what you said. What you failed to see was that LMG had been sending inaccurate info for years!!! I, as a consumer who also trusted LTT to get accurate info in my purchasing decision that cost in the thousand $$$ that means a lot. You don't need to ask permission to LMG when they were the ones who fired the first shot, what nexus did was just factual retaliation which anyone would appreciate more than a guy who is a wolf in sheeps clothing. If you've watched Linus for a long time(like me i've watched him even during the ncix days because of esther honestly) you will see the changes in character from someone who was genuine to someone who is pretending to be one. At the end of the day, you watch LMG shows to get accurate info with some entertainment but if all the info is just fake then what's the purpose of a tech channel?!
Why the f, dont they just help each other, instead of bashing each other. They have collabed before. I would have rather have had Nexus to contact Linus to inform about the errors. I dont like any of them, but this looks like dramahunting, and "im better than you" kids games
A member of LTT's Labs team literally made false claims on camera about GN's and HUB's testing methodologies to make Labs seem better than them before they have even finished setting Labs up. LTT started this, and have been in a quality decline for YEARS now.
1:15 Not just ego, but actually the Labs person having no idea what happens in tech review space. Hardware Unboxed constantly do hardware retests. So Labs do the same thing as HUB Steve, but still end up with worse results. Basically Linus made a gold controller, again.
too be fair, Linus did publicly respond to a lot of the issues before Gamers Nexus video so Gamers Nexus may not have felt it necessary to reach out for a further comment
That sentence makes little to no sense, but I believe its one of the 2 things hopefully you can confirm
LTT didn't respond PRIOR otherwise that wouldn't be a response... so I don't think it's this one
IF you meant LTT COULD have responded to these issues themselves prior and then GN wouldn't have needed to reach out or even do the video in the 1st place then 100% agree with you
Either way all the best 👍
@klansimpson apologies I was referring to Linus' response on WAN show regarding fitting the cooler on the incorrect gpu for the testing. I wasn't referring to his response to Gamers Nexus but rather his response to WAN show fans regarding the cooler video
@@akgzero8141 no worries thanks for the reply, makes more sense now. All the best 👍
Can you please add the story of Trust Me Bro and the subsquent profiteering on printing t-shirts? That I think is also telling of the trajectory and context between Steve and Linus.
I think LMG is slowly turning into IGN of the PC hardware review world if they don't start to do some changes immediately.
Damn Accurate 😂
Who said they already weren't? I banned IGN for a reason; same with LMG.
@@ZeroHourProductions407 both r good for entertainment tho
I loved your video. Like many ive been bumming around youtube trying to get a "complete" idea of whats going on. Youve done a great job on that! Sad week though 😔
I said this on the first GN video and I'll say it here. LTT is more of a "hey look at what you can do with dumb amounts of money" instead of a reviewer like the pool cooling video. Any tech thing I want to research besides PC parts I look for a dedicated reviewer for said product category. GN accepting fault and openly showing they messed up and how to fix it is more respectable than LMG even before this. I'll still watch those amazing fantastical things LMG puts out and not watch many of any of the real reviews videos
this! LTT became a FOXNEWS of the news industry.
I kinda see him as the Cleetus McFarland of IT. Zero electronic empathy, but fun to watch, and has brought a lot of people to the field.
That means you're tech-savvy enough to be aware of that. I can only assume most non tech-savvy that want a tech purchasing advice will still turns to LTT due to high sub count that can be perceived as trustworthiness.
@@riomisterio6665 and that's why those of us who are tech-savvy should call out LTT when their attempts at reviews are as bad as they are.
After 6 months of no content, this video comes up. We need more @KristoferYee content. Hope all is we with you Kristofer.