Sierra Club has to remember when you point a finger your pointing three at yourself. I have stayed as a guest at a few Sierra Club lodges I have never seen a more elitist group of people.
Absolutely right. The Sierra Club turned into another money grubbing institution, justifying itself on the work of people like John Muir whom they have now decided to "cancel."
Yo… get a bad vibe from a resort is hardly a condemnation of the club. They do have a complicated history as all things in this country do but currently it is a positive force on fighting climate change
@@alyssasembrat8096 have you had to fight the Sierra club they don’t have a realistic view of the world as a whole. As a gold miner I have been involved in a few conflicts of interest with them. Follow the money…
@@alyssasembrat8096 Their "fighting against climate change" is racist in nature and negaitivcely impacts people of color. by driving up energy cost. Plus it does nothing about the supposed climate change as the major sources of air polution ate China and India.. It is a white upper middle class group
This is the most ahistorical review of John Muirs beliefs i have ever heard. his letter from Alaska clear this up. So much for the editorial integrity over at KPIX CBS.
What rubbish, Muir was a product of his times and he was born into a world like many others who've been targeted that inherited many of its attitudes for better or worse. Indeed this malevolent movement hasn't got around to burning books yet but give them time and even Ghandi had options about Africans when he was young that would of been cheered in the era of Jim Crow. Indeed statues/places named after Washington/Jefferson weren't made because they had been Slave Owners but what they did outside that and these idiots who are calling for their exile live in a Nation they created as well as the Rights they enjoy. But that's not relevant in their valuing nothing that was made before they were born and therein lies the rub because though there all but Goose Stepping around a bonfire they'd happily throw what they don't agree with into its mentality is the same. Prejudice is learned not innate and those who would see his legacy destroyed are even worse because they do not recognize their own and if a statue was raised them its title would be "Ignorance is my Name"...
Looks like another, "Blame Whitey" episode. John Muir preferred the outdoors to bullsh*t; we have the national parks and a sense of ecology because of men like him. Conservation, not exactly an urban topic, especially when these men roamed the Earth. This is a sick culture both left and right.
"John Muir shared the racial views of his time." I mean, there you go. If we are going to hold his views against him, then let's hold all of their views against all of them and tear it all down I guess.
Lewis and Clark ARE being attacked ny the ChiCom/ Deep State to filthify ALL great Americans and their History. This is tried in all Totaltarian take overs of Countries. To destroy, filthify history, to help divide people and conquer!
@@wildflowers5555 I think you maybe finding out that a lot of great americans just happen to be racists is messing with your sensibilities. That or you knew already where ok with it. The truth is not negotiable.
@@llehsaderob Of course I was ok with it. Was I supposed to act like John Muir was some kind of villain because he shared the racial attitudes of his time? Just admit you hate white people.
@@llehsaderobEveryone of that day, including the Indians themselves, was racist. To be objective, they just had stupid ideas. They all did. The retro condemnation of those folks is just a new stupid idea.
Sierra club doesn't speak for me. They took 25 million from gas companies to frack from 07 to 10. This is one club that needs to be dismantled permanently....they will be trying to change the names of the sequoias in the giant forest pretty soon if we let them.
what a bunch of BS, he spent alot of time with American Indians. Noone is perfect and this try at destrying his reputation is very sad. Just makes me know that I will not e join the Sierra Club.
It's funny how quick some are to get out they're tape measure to see if the historic figures from the past measure up to the ideas (not standards) of today. And it's off with their heads if they don't.
Absolutely. And while they are busy applying their tape measure to historically important figures from the 19th and early 20th centuries, they completely ignore the corporate bail outs, the corporate destruction of parklands today, the current loss of jobs and homes for huge numbers of people in this country, etc., etc., etc. It's both absurd and dangerous. China's Cultural Revolution and Cambodia's Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge are just two famous examples of attempts to erase and/or re-write history.
That’s a terrible argument. Maybe read a more nuanced take on how people share history then come back and chat. Stop acting like reconciling the true past of man is an attack. Maybe he was a product of his time but he was just that. And we can’t ignore it to put him on a pedestal. Sorry it doesn’t work with your white environmental agenda. That’s not how change comes. Change comes with reconciling the past and learning from it. And if that’s not what you’re doing, what’s the point of having an historical figure in the first place. If it’s not factually correct (according to historical accounts) than it’s just a myth. And as far as I’m concerned, Muir is not a god.
@@llehsaderob Well the mans greatness is what we feel today. Is there giant tracts of racist land set aside specially for white people? No. Is there giant tracts of land set aside for all races of America to use? Yes
@@thomasjackson2342 the giant tracts of land that where set aside where stolen by people who thought the original people of the land were inferior, your point?
@@llehsaderob I think the English word your looking for is conquered rather than stolen, but I get your point. People of the past did not live by the ideals of Rewar. The stronger people win, thats nature. Don't you think the people on the lands set aside where not there from the beginning of time? Who did they conquer to obtain that land? Does that not matter? Is it only a sin if a white man conquers but not when a brown or red man conquers? Do you complain about red men conquering red men? What about white men conquering white men? Are these things all that different? Does the effectiveness of the conquerers determine to what degree they are immoral, or is it based on some other parameter?
@@thomasjackson2342 No no no, STOLEN by which whatever method (conquered) still means STOLEN. You're right people conquer other people, the sin if you will is that the people "conquered" were thought to be INFERIOR then driven out their lands either murdered or put in reservations. Too many of these "great" americans where really just racist eugenicists who range from publishing books and papers detailing how to cleanse the nation of non-whites to actually sterilizing women of color. Late 1880s to early 1900s is around the time these views were predominant and who many of these great "saviors" of the land and fake environmentalists used that to gain a foothold. These people weren't saints and gave rise to another malady(the r*pe and plunder of most of the land), and now we have raging fires destroying all the forests worldwide with big chunks here in the U.S. My ideals have nothing to do with the morality of idolizing despicable human beings, and they come in all "colors". These national parks and areas preserved came at a great cost, and when certain truths come out is not "woke" culture trying to rewrite history, it's correcting how it's told so that it is FACTUAL. I'm not religious and base my beliefs on logic, so if any of these men progressed the whole of the species worldwide I'd recognize and praise them, THEY DIDN'T SO I DON'T. They merely introduced notions that wildlife should be preserved and respected, but even then from what you see in the world TODAY it's been a failure. We now have rampant extinction and do very little to curb it. So what did these "STRONG" "CONQUERORS" accomplish really?
I used to be a supporter of the Sierra Club now it's just joke of an organization. How about focus on conservation instead of attacking your own founding members?
The Sierra Club has concerned itself with many things unrelated to nature-preservation in recent years, They seem to favor the same sort of graffiti Black Lives Matter leaves wherever its mob goes, akin to the wind turbine graffiti they increasingly make excuses for near wild areas. John Muir was reacting naturally to the lack of refinement displayed by some ethnic groups, white Man's sins aside. He later came to accept Indians as conservationists and was a man of his times. No need to vilify him at this late stage to appease a shallow, cop-hating movement.
I’ve spent the last 7 years traveling national parks and speaking to the grand idea that setting aside these grounds was the best of this country. Now to hear Muir (...and others) did not believe I was a man is just exhausting...
I am aware. Done a lot of cool stuff in my life and led quite a few people. Not once have I told any of them to get over it. That said, I can’t appreciate your perspective. Take care...
@@emptysuit You are also aware that 150 years ago most white people, including the highly accomplished, harbored the same opinion about Indians, Chinese and Italians? Catholics and Jews were poorly regarded as well, albeit for different reasons. I'm not sure what they thought about Mexicans then, but we know what people think now, opinions just as unfounded as the rest. Women in general were thought unsuited for anything not directly connected with the kitchen or children. Go back a little further to find that only landed white males were thought bright or reliable enough to vote or hold office. But, as they say, that was then. Perhaps John Muir, someone you rightfully hold, or at least *held*, in high regard, being revealed to have expressed hurtful opinions not uncommon for his day hits a little close to home? I can understand that. But if he was alive today, those would not be his opinions, and, if he knew you today, he'd consider you a valued colleague, correct? Maybe you could consider cutting his memory a little slack, keeping things in the context of the times as professional historians are trained to, and must, do? That's what I meant by the suggestion to "get over it." One cannot logically take history personally. I'm unfamiliar with the John Muir wilderness, having spent my very modest miles on the PCT farther West. You'd find me a very interested attendee of your lectures. Best to you in future endeavors.
Will Barnett - It was a grand idea, and still is, and an amazing accomplishment. I'm Irish, and know my history well, but does that not prevent me from appreciating the achievements of Queen Victoria. If I were to choose to carry that burden of trying to constantly reconcile an imperfect past with today's standards (which will never be "perfect" btw) it would be exhausting as well. The only real choice is to move forward.
Kate Boyle thank you for your feedback and there is no need to move forward; it’s just a comment. I do however hope and believe that there will come a time when my children do not have to pore over the work of someone they truly admire and respect only to find out he/she did not believe you (or native americans) were equal because of your skin color.
Sierra club is now a terrible disgrace. Especially after the latest lawsuit against SpaceX in Texas. If the Sierra club spent its money on green innovation rather than frivolous lawsuits, they may have an ounce of respect.
Native indigenous aboriginal North Americans are aloud to over-fish using illegal and cruel tactics, out of season and sell roadside smoked endangered salmon.
Sierra Club has to remember when you point a finger your pointing three at yourself. I have stayed as a guest at a few Sierra Club lodges I have never seen a more elitist group of people.
Absolutely right. The Sierra Club turned into another money grubbing institution, justifying itself on the work of people like John Muir whom they have now decided to "cancel."
Yo… get a bad vibe from a resort is hardly a condemnation of the club. They do have a complicated history as all things in this country do but currently it is a positive force on fighting climate change
@@alyssasembrat8096 have you had to fight the Sierra club they don’t have a realistic view of the world as a whole.
As a gold miner I have been involved in a few conflicts of interest with them.
Follow the money…
@@alyssasembrat8096 Their "fighting against climate change" is racist in nature and negaitivcely impacts people of color. by driving up energy cost. Plus it does nothing about the supposed climate change as the major sources of air polution ate China and India.. It is a white upper middle class group
It’s so sad that the club Miur founded has lost its way.
This is the most ahistorical review of John Muirs beliefs i have ever heard. his letter from Alaska clear this up. So much for the editorial integrity over at KPIX CBS.
IT'S 2020 PEOPLE!!! NOT THE LATE 1800s. Get over it! I'm of mixed race, So freaking what? So are millions of others!
Retro moralizing
What might YOU be doing today that will be considered unforgivable?
What rubbish, Muir was a product of his times and he was born into a world like many others who've been targeted that inherited many of its attitudes for better or worse. Indeed this malevolent movement hasn't got around to burning books yet but give them time and even Ghandi had options about Africans when he was young that would of been cheered in the era of Jim Crow. Indeed statues/places named after Washington/Jefferson weren't made because they had been Slave Owners but what they did outside that and these idiots who are calling for their exile live in a Nation they created as well as the Rights they enjoy. But that's not relevant in their valuing nothing that was made before they were born and therein lies the rub because though there all but Goose Stepping around a bonfire they'd happily throw what they don't agree with into its mentality is the same. Prejudice is learned not innate and those who would see his legacy destroyed are even worse because they do not recognize their own and if a statue was raised them its title would be "Ignorance is my Name"...
He was racist af
Always balance good vs. evil. Has Muir done more good than harm? I believe the answer is Yes.
Looks like another, "Blame Whitey" episode. John Muir preferred the outdoors to bullsh*t; we have the national parks and a sense of ecology because of men like him. Conservation, not exactly an
urban topic, especially when these men roamed the Earth. This is a sick culture both left and right.
"John Muir shared the racial views of his time." I mean, there you go. If we are going to hold his views against him, then let's hold all of their views against all of them and tear it all down I guess.
How much more absurd is the New Mccarthyism going to get? Is the team of Lewis and Clark next?
Lewis and Clark ARE being attacked ny the ChiCom/ Deep State to filthify ALL great Americans and their History. This is tried in all Totaltarian take overs of Countries. To destroy, filthify history, to help divide people and conquer!
@@wildflowers5555 I think you maybe finding out that a lot of great americans just happen to be racists is messing with your sensibilities. That or you knew already where ok with it. The truth is not negotiable.
@@llehsaderob Of course I was ok with it. Was I supposed to act like John Muir was some kind of villain because he shared the racial attitudes of his time? Just admit you hate white people.
@@llehsaderobEveryone of that day, including the Indians themselves, was racist. To be objective, they just had stupid ideas. They all did. The retro condemnation of those folks is just a new stupid idea.
Has this guy ever backpacked or hiked anywhere? I seriously doubt it
Ramon Cruz - shame on you. When pointing one finger at someone remember that three are pointing back at yourself. Such hypocrisy.
The liberal way of thinking is ridiculous.
Sierra club doesn't speak for me. They took 25 million from gas companies to frack from 07 to 10.
This is one club that needs to be dismantled permanently....they will be trying to change the names of the sequoias in the giant forest pretty soon if we let them.
what a bunch of BS, he spent alot of time with American Indians. Noone is perfect and this try at destrying his reputation is very sad. Just makes me know that I will not e join the Sierra Club.
It's funny how quick some are to get out they're tape measure to see if the historic figures from the past measure up to the ideas (not standards) of today. And it's off with their heads if they don't.
Absolutely. And while they are busy applying their tape measure to historically important figures from the 19th and early 20th centuries, they completely ignore the corporate bail outs, the corporate destruction of parklands today, the current loss of jobs and homes for huge numbers of people in this country, etc., etc., etc. It's both absurd and dangerous. China's Cultural Revolution and Cambodia's Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge are just two famous examples of attempts to erase and/or re-write history.
That’s a terrible argument. Maybe read a more nuanced take on how people share history then come back and chat. Stop acting like reconciling the true past of man is an attack. Maybe he was a product of his time but he was just that. And we can’t ignore it to put him on a pedestal. Sorry it doesn’t work with your white environmental agenda. That’s not how change comes. Change comes with reconciling the past and learning from it. And if that’s not what you’re doing, what’s the point of having an historical figure in the first place. If it’s not factually correct (according to historical accounts) than it’s just a myth. And as far as I’m concerned, Muir is not a god.
SierraClub just went full woke mode lol
Muir’s are not complicated and don’t try to weaponize my family
This morality inquisition is so toxic. Who is next Gandhi?
They already got Gandhi. He was a racist too. I'm serious. Look it up.
@@aliasrose and a diddler.
Lets change everything. Erase history
Who cares if he was racist for heavens sake
It’s racist now if you try your shoes the wrong way. This club wouldn’t even exist without John Muir, talk about a slap in the face
What a lame report. No specifics are given regarding Muir's alleged racism against American Indians.
If a lot of great people were racist, that tells me that maybe racism isn't really that bad.
Disgusting all people want to look at are perceived faults and ignore the greatness.
or ignore the deep faults and idolize the perceived greatness...
@@llehsaderob Well the mans greatness is what we feel today. Is there giant tracts of racist land set aside specially for white people? No. Is there giant tracts of land set aside for all races of America to use? Yes
@@thomasjackson2342 the giant tracts of land that where set aside where stolen by people who thought the original people of the land were inferior, your point?
@@llehsaderob I think the English word your looking for is conquered rather than stolen, but I get your point.
People of the past did not live by the ideals of Rewar. The stronger people win, thats nature. Don't you think the people on the lands set aside where not there from the beginning of time? Who did they conquer to obtain that land? Does that not matter? Is it only a sin if a white man conquers but not when a brown or red man conquers? Do you complain about red men conquering red men? What about white men conquering white men? Are these things all that different? Does the effectiveness of the conquerers determine to what degree they are immoral, or is it based on some other parameter?
@@thomasjackson2342 No no no, STOLEN by which whatever method (conquered) still means STOLEN. You're right people conquer other people, the sin if you will is that the people "conquered" were thought to be INFERIOR then driven out their lands either murdered or put in reservations. Too many of these "great" americans where really just racist eugenicists who range from publishing books and papers detailing how to cleanse the nation of non-whites to actually sterilizing women of color. Late 1880s to early 1900s is around the time these views were predominant and who many of these great "saviors" of the land and fake environmentalists used that to gain a foothold.
These people weren't saints and gave rise to another malady(the r*pe and plunder of most of the land), and now we have raging fires destroying all the forests worldwide with big chunks here in the U.S.
My ideals have nothing to do with the morality of idolizing despicable human beings, and they come in all "colors".
These national parks and areas preserved came at a great cost, and when certain truths come out is not "woke" culture trying to rewrite history, it's correcting how it's told so that it is FACTUAL.
I'm not religious and base my beliefs on logic, so if any of these men progressed the whole of the species worldwide I'd recognize and praise them, THEY DIDN'T SO I DON'T. They merely introduced notions that wildlife should be preserved and respected, but even then from what you see in the world TODAY it's been a failure. We now have rampant extinction and do very little to curb it.
So what did these "STRONG" "CONQUERORS" accomplish really?
John was less racist than most presidents of the time, let us not demonize one of the best men in American history. 😢
I used to be a supporter of the Sierra Club now it's just joke of an organization. How about focus on conservation instead of attacking your own founding members?
Oh course Dick White has to the the expert.
Love John Muir but can’t stand the Sierra Club
John muir also said he respected the Indians for how well they left they land after staying in an area. you're only looking at the negative, as usual
The problem is being judgemental; not unlike this discussion about John Muir.
The Sierra Club has concerned itself with many things unrelated to nature-preservation in recent years, They seem to favor the same sort of graffiti Black Lives Matter leaves wherever its mob goes, akin to the wind turbine graffiti they increasingly make excuses for near wild areas. John Muir was reacting naturally to the lack of refinement displayed by some ethnic groups, white Man's sins aside. He later came to accept Indians as conservationists and was a man of his times. No need to vilify him at this late stage to appease a shallow, cop-hating movement.
This comment should be pinned
OF COURSE SF, who dammed Hetch Hetchy, are smearing JM at any chance
I’ve spent the last 7 years traveling national parks and speaking to the grand idea that setting aside these grounds was the best of this country. Now to hear Muir (...and others) did not believe I was a man is just exhausting...
The Lewis and Clark expedition had a slave along. That must be even more exhausting. Or you could just get over it, you know?
I am aware. Done a lot of cool stuff in my life and led quite a few people. Not once have I told any of them to get over it. That said, I can’t appreciate your perspective. Take care...
@@emptysuit You are also aware that 150 years ago most white people, including the highly accomplished, harbored the same opinion about Indians, Chinese and Italians? Catholics and Jews were poorly regarded as well, albeit for different reasons. I'm not sure what they thought about Mexicans then, but we know what people think now, opinions just as unfounded as the rest. Women in general were thought unsuited for anything not directly connected with the kitchen or children. Go back a little further to find that only landed white males were thought bright or reliable enough to vote or hold office. But, as they say, that was then.
Perhaps John Muir, someone you rightfully hold, or at least *held*, in high regard, being revealed to have expressed hurtful opinions not uncommon for his day hits a little close to home? I can understand that. But if he was alive today, those would not be his opinions, and, if he knew you today, he'd consider you a valued colleague, correct? Maybe you could consider cutting his memory a little slack, keeping things in the context of the times as professional historians are trained to, and must, do? That's what I meant by the suggestion to "get over it." One cannot logically take history personally.
I'm unfamiliar with the John Muir wilderness, having spent my very modest miles on the PCT farther West. You'd find me a very interested attendee of your lectures. Best to you in future endeavors.
Will Barnett - It was a grand idea, and still is, and an amazing accomplishment. I'm Irish, and know my history well, but does that not prevent me from appreciating the achievements of Queen Victoria. If I were to choose to carry that burden of trying to constantly reconcile an imperfect past with today's standards (which will never be "perfect" btw) it would be exhausting as well. The only real choice is to move forward.
Kate Boyle thank you for your feedback and there is no need to move forward; it’s just a comment. I do however hope and believe that there will come a time when my children do not have to pore over the work of someone they truly admire and respect only to find out he/she did not believe you (or native americans) were equal because of your skin color.
So stupid, must have been a slow news cycle
The Sierra club nowadays is a joke run by a bunch of elitist snobs. What do you guys even stand for anymore?
Ramon Cruz needs to go back.
Sierra club is now a terrible disgrace. Especially after the latest lawsuit against SpaceX in Texas. If the Sierra club spent its money on green innovation rather than frivolous lawsuits, they may have an ounce of respect.
A guy with a heavy accent comes to America and starts criticizing America, massive hypocrisy.
Clubs being inclusive, how progressive! Next they'll only exclude ......wait no...I guess it'll still be an elitist club.
Here we go, so dumb.
What a bunch of nonsense.
wow people must be bored during SIP.
Its not complicated he is a racist or not
Robert Lawrence well there’s no proof that he’s not Not dead...🤷🏻♀️
Sounds good Ramone. Grade A d bag
If you believe humanity exists beyond the scrutiny of natural science, you're probably not a naturalist and shouldn't run such a club.
Native indigenous aboriginal North Americans are aloud to over-fish using illegal and cruel tactics, out of season and sell roadside smoked endangered salmon.
Someone doesn’t read their homework, obviously.
😂 have you ever considered they’re overfishing once plentiful rivers and streams that we stole from them?
Not to sound like a bleeding heart liberal but… read some American history…
🎂John Muir 04-21-2022