I appreciate the lack of oversell as well, they also educate their potential customers as well. I'd rather my customers be informed, than ignorant and easily taken. These guys are a great business
Holy shit, such a massive coil assembly! And insane electrical destruction too... exactly like someone struck an arc across it with a welder. Big power on both sides.
I really hate it when the coil starts to slip or unravel without the coil itself not even burning. Mainly on cheaper subs. Just because the coil can handle 500 degrees. Doesn't mean that the glue and former can take the abuse.
Question: So if the coil started out as a bright shiny copper & turned dark, is it still good as long as the glue hasn't melted? Or the coil hasn't come loose?
Yea that’s why I still have my old school fosgate equipment with all stinger pro wire been running it for years ..the coils on my power hx2’s still look new
John Doe A brand new high quality amp from China would give the same result. The super cheap class D and Brazilian amps are the ones that cause the most problems.
I used to get coils where the form would start to bubble, but the coil was perfectly fine. As a result of the bubbled form, it would eventually start to rub, and the more it bubbled the more it would rub until it eventually got stuck.
I asked the other day in a comment on another video how to tell if was caused by over power or clipping. This helps. Guess i should have watched more of your videos.
What is that fiberglass tape called above the coil winding that holds the glue on the spider? The stuff all over the top of the form? I remember it just as fiberglass tape but i cant find the right stuff to buy
Clipping is known to send disproportionate amounts of power to tweeters in full range speakers, but does it really make much difference on a sub, other than just extra power going to the coil in general? Running continuous bass tones near tuning or higher bass frequencies will generate lower impedance and also cause less coil movement that would evict heat from a vented pole piece. Excessive burst power could damage suspensions and spiders, yank coils away from cones or cause coil turns to come unglued if they aren't up to snuff. Bottoming out can dent coils, causing permanent rub.
Yes, it does matter on a sub. You CAN hear it, and it also just dumps heat. Less coil movement would INCREASE heat at that coil, pole venting isn't doing much of anything, and pole air isn't where the bulk of the heat is. Excessive burst power (within reason) only damages the sub if it's designed and built poorly. A good design won't bottom out and dent the coil, and breaking glue joints is just poor assembly. None of those are things our subs experience. We intentionally put over 7x rated power on them for a burst without failure.
The coil that had the 10k on it, how much was the sub rated for rms? 3" I'm guessing between 2500-3000? So a 10k even after decent rise would still be around 5000 minimum. I think you said it best this is the only hobby where people will push stuff 2-3x past what it's rated for then still blame the product. LOL!
Or they buy a 1k amp and crank the gain all the way up trying to get 3k out of it then blame a sub for dying not knowing it was basically being fed dc and being used as a space heater
I remember some car audio company's, were not listing RMS ratings, and when asked about it, they would tell you that "if you have to ask, it's not the sub for you" but, that has been awhile. No voice coil is "rated for power" and that's a huge misconception, and anyone that tells you otherwise, is just trying to push a product. And on a side note, the difference in the color of the enamel, depends on how hot the coil was baked for curing, and or how the process was done.
When i got my resilient sounds subs the coils seemed to have tiny gaps in them i didn’t know at that time but i do now and i hope that doesn’t affect my warranty..
Can you refurbish a coil like the one in 3:20? I have an American Bass HD that ohms out fine but I pulled the drop in and seen a coil just like this but about half as bad. No rub before I pulled it. I was originally fixing cone vibration lol
So i have a two resilient gold 12s on a 5k sundown sfb crossover an epic a ever star battery in the back an a dry cell under the hood started stinking an the voice coils can unravel from the bottom was i running dirty power or not enough power or to much power need help
Why would the spider come off the former? I have 3 subs with dual spider an inch apart. All 3 subs, the inner spider came unglued from the coil and its been playing like this for some time. I only found out because I modified my port, would this be something Covered by warranty?
My coils on my G2 Genesys 15s are starting to look a little bubbly in spots. I have smelled them a few times as well as clipped them. Is this a sign of reaching coil failure?
So even if the coil turns black but no bubbles or rubbing sound, its still good?? Or still needed to re-cone???... Or i can still use the sub and supply it with the rated power it has.... Or underpower it for safety?? Because my uncle gave me a 12inch sub 1K rms 16kg heavy, and I noticed that the coil is black like charcoal, not like the brand new one that copper color, but when i test it, it's still good sounding no coil rub or what so ever...
I had an Alpine Type R that started sounding horrible. At low volume, you could hear the dreaded scratching. Checked the impedence on both coils and it was fine. Opened her up and all I see is what looks like copper rubbed off (aluminum showing?). It's only in one tiny spot about 4mm wide and only 2 strands tall. It's about 1/2 down on the coil. What would be the cause of that? The only other thing I saw was the former isn't completely closed. There's like a 2-3mm gap. Not sure if it's supposed to be like that.
That sounds like something was in the gap. That was the rubbing sound, and the marks left from it. The former not being closed, at least what you were seeing, is normal.
Does a high temperature paint with the epoxy help to keep the voice coil cool? Or do coils not work well with a high temperature paint applied to them?
So what do you do when some immoral person sends in his burned coil for undeserved warranty work? Cheaters tend to get nasty when they get caught! I hope that fact doesn't deter you from doing what's right.
they do have a high power rail, a lot like the HCCA amps and others, but the cause is lack of supplied voltage to the amp i would think and possible poor filtering or boosts from the caps inside, it is not a steady voltage and is usually because people try to overpower with cheaper amps without extra batts better alts ect ect, and well cheap amps just are what they are, they are cheap for a reason.
I have a stereo integrity sql12 on a slash 1000/1 for about 2 months and now it’s making a noise. People are saying it’s a bad coil but it doesn’t make any noise when I push on the woofer. I had a 10w7 and 12w7 on the same setup and they didn’t have any issues. Could it still be a coil even though it doesn’t make a sound when pushing on the cone?
I have 2 EMF ermagerd 18s from a guy in canada that had 6... he had clean power on them and the coil went on him at his first show....they all got PSI recones and I have 2 playing in my car now. It makes me wonder how the original coils went so fast. He had crossfire 8ks on them 6 of them. It would have been a beast if he didnt give up on it.
Im building a sub and notice there are options for coils. obviously size but also round or flat wire, aluminum or copper, etc. It will be a 15" sub, just under 200oz magnet and i'm thinking 2.5" or 3" voice coil. Any suggestions on coil type?? How would I calculate power handling? Great, informative video btw!
The weight of the magnet means nothing. The coil diameter is determined by the motor, that isn't an option. There are benefits and drawbacks of various coil selections which are dependent on other factors of the motor and soft parts. Power handling you can only have starting points based on the coil diameter and length but you can't simply calculate anything because of considerations with the motor and suspension.
I really need help here I have a skar svr 15 800 rms 1600 watt max it’s a 2 ohm sub so it’s wired to 4 ohms on a 1500 watt ssl amp the sub gets hot on the magnet but it dosent smell burnt and the amp is all the way down
Generally less weight. Electrically, aluminium is inferior. They require more engineering to get them on a decent efficiency. Luckily, most of that is already figured out and 'public domain' knowledge.
Was wondering if you could build a custom voice coil if given exact dimensions. Have an 18" basket and cone, and ss audio 12" motor. A 4" 75 lb motor is silly for a 12" Building a more practical sub...lol. Using 1000-2000 wrms. Might need a few spacers and a standoff, to use the DC audio 18" medium spiders. Also have a dozen or so L7 solobarics to recone with some maxxonics cones.
Quick question if you were to exceed the subwoofers rated rms power rating and give it more rms power than what it's rated to handle will the subwoofer bottom out and what exactly does that mean when that happens
Bottoming out is reaching a mechanical limit at the bottom stroke. Typically used to refer to smacking the back plate. That isn't from exceeding rated power.
I've got a copper coil on the JL 8w7 that appears to just have unraveled a few turns on the bottom of the coil. Do you think it bottomed out and blew due to the impact? No other discoloration or rubbing marks.
yes I have been out of audio for a few years. that's why I have just discovered this company. from what I have seen. its an A OK #1 company. now its time to hear and feel some subs in action. I like extremely clean bass. hope they van deliver. because I love the looks!
Great video! Can you tell me anything about the coil in a JL 12W3v3-4? I can see some minor black bubbling on the coil through the gaps in the basket and am thinking about trying to repair it. Is it possible to make my own coil and replace it? I am down for a challenge. Any info would be awesome!
No, you can not wind your own coil. I've never reconed one to know much about that coil used but JL's general design philosophy is 2 layer coils that aren't particularly long (except W7), wound on plastic formers.
Nice explanation! I know when I used to run a competitors sub (not dropping names) that seems to have issues with coils all the time, and people would get mad because they would always say user error. After seeing this I would be curious how often they get some of those just fried or holed coils and the customer is flipping out saying that it's a crappy sub when they just committed subwoofer homicide. LOL!
I know of one brand we do a lot of recones for locally that have coil problems because they're just crap coils, or should be rated for less power. But, I also know people think a power rating means run double that on it and if it fails it's the products fault.
Lol...yeah thats what I have heard. But don't get me wrong I have 2 HDC3 15's on 2k each with no issues yet....but they do get warm and I dont full tilt for long. But I have some ZV4 motors coming my way for me build that can handle some abuse and get windy.
How do you determine how far the voice coil should be put down in the ring at the bottom of the basket? Is there a measurement from top of coil to the spider or does the coil just pushed down where it won't go any further into the basket? TIA
GREAT VIDEO! QUESTION: I have never had a subwoofer bottom out. Alpine 8" type R dual 2 ohm rated350 watt rms per coil. being powered by alpine MVR 250 ( 250 watt at 2ohm 150 watt at 4 ohm ) wired at 1ohm. I only hear the tick of what I assume is a voice coil tap against the magnet. Would this be caused by 1ohm wiring? or Air leak in sealed box? or just over power?
DSM Dallas You may be hearing light clipping from running it at 1 ohm. Typically if you're tapping the coil on the backplate you don't do that too many times before it's destroyed. Now, I think it's also impossible to do that on that sub so it might also be mechanical noise from the spiders or maybe lead slap on the cone.
I've had a couple subs back in the days where spider just wasn't glued properly and the spider came loose. Luckily, in each case, all I had to do was reglue it and it fixed the problem.
Is it possible for a sub that clearly says on the speaker box itself that it's 175 watts rms and your amp that was professionally put in is tuned for 150 and they by the way admitted to that isn't that under powering I'm asking because I finally got a sub that came with a 500 watt max amp it's a nice 10 inch kenwood but it is connected to the crappy stock radio well the question is that when I changed my fade on the stereo itself to focus more on the back it definitely worked in making the sub louder it was noticeable and I didn't think anything of doing that except in doing so it blew the sub it wasn't a real expensive sub and amp but it was the only one I could afford it actually hits pretty good I was starting to like the sub im just wondering was it wrong to adjust the fade like that because I have no clue on the amp itself what knob to turn that's why I decided to just turn down the front speakers and have it on the back I don't think I did anything wrong but I am a little pissed because I payed good money for this and they would not tune the amp so it at least do the 175 not 150 can you please tell me if it's on them or me I really want to know
If the signal for the amp was setup on the rear channels and it was faded forward, then you changed it so the fade was at 0 or more to the rear, you would have essentially changed it so the amp made more power, blowing the sub. If it was set to 0 and you just reduced the front volume fading to the rear it wouldn't change anything with that. But it is possible you turned the volume up past where they had it set for or they set it incorrectly.
Also fun fact about the Brazilian amplifiers is they use _extremely_ high voltage rails to drive the bridged amplifier section, often without filtering. Im guessing the higher multi-kW ones run at about 160V from the 200V capacitors often seen. This combined with lack of filtering allows for less current to be used for the same drive power, and thus fewer switching transistors. The downside is if the voice coil suffers a broken section (and no inductance), the voltage will basically shoot straight up to the rail voltage since there's no filtering on the class-D output, and thus flash over, causing all the melted and burned sections seen.
if it suffers a broken section it is already dead, usually caused by low voltage supplied to the amp anyhow, they just try to overcompensate, just need an amp good enough to shut off when your volatge is shit.
@nate0 Obviously you wouldn't, just like you wouldn't want to continue to run an engine with a rod knock, but it happens. A typical scenario would be multiple subs and you might not hear one is failing right away, so it ends up nuking itself in the process. Since the voice coil has a fair bit of inductance, if the amp has no output filtering and no proper clamping on the output, it can generate quite a lot of back-EMF if the coil opens up, thus leading to flashover. Don't know how many were/are susceptible to this, but its a distinct possibility since filterless class-D is really for undemanding things like consumer electronics, not high power car audio amplifiers. These also have the undesirable characteristic of having substantial voltage on the speaker terminals even with the amp idling since each terminal will be toggling between the two respective power rails.
Your "fun fact" about Brazilian amplifiers is completely incorrect. Brazilian amps being "extremely high voltage" is an old myth/misconception. Brazilian (full bridge) amplifiers use much lower rail voltage than their half bridge counterparts.
@@danielbujold7262 First off, a full-bridge amplifier doesn't use "much lower voltage", it just doesn't have a bipolar power supply. Half-bridge designs have to have + and - rails to be able to provide the full swing about the ground reference. With a full-bridge design, the bridge does the polarity flipping, so only one rail is needed. That said, the rail must provide sufficient voltage to actually drive the load, and as such will use similar voltages as the half-bridge amps, but just with only one rail, and half the number of rail caps. Just doing some basic math, 2 kW RMS into a 2Ω load requires 63V RMS, or 88V peak. In a full-bridge design, this would be 90V at the rail. In a half-bridge design, this would be ±90V.
@@danielbujold7262 And I think that may have come from a barevids video where he looked at the outputs of a full-bridge amp. That can cause some confusion since normally just one output will be swinging while the other sits at ground. Off the top of my head, the outputs on a full-bridge should be of opposite phase to add up to the full drive voltage once the drive signal has passed thru the filter networks.
I have a active subwoofer. So thing is that when I crank the system to half way sub at 0 same for EQ it tends to make this burnt smell from the sub. I don’t play bass boosted songs so I have two guesses either the amp burning up (4ohm 50W) or my Boss Audio 8” 600W voice coil burning...?
EMF Audio www.amazon.com/dp/B00I9TSXKI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_1FbXAbQ7R289D Your right company lied thing maxes around 80-100W well that explains why my stock sub made the same smell. Well now I know what a slightly burnt voice coil smells like.
DO YOU GUYS STILL MAKE THE EMF AUDIO ERMAGERD'S WITH THE MAGNET SLUGS OR JUST THE SQUARE MOTORS I LOVE BOTH OF THEM AND I'M SORRY IF YOU SAID SO ALREADY BUT COULD YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW THE PRICE OF THE MOTOR WITH THE MAGNETS AND THE SQUARE MOTORS ALSO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
Right now my w7 is starting to sound like a slinky on certain bass notes, had to lower my gain but now it hits nowhere near as hard … looks like I clipped it to much
I need to pull my EVL from its enclosure. I've been running this 12 on that 1000.1 for a few months now and it started making a coil noise and the clip light flashes bright red at bass peaks. I don't understand. I've been monitoring the heat with an inferred thermometer and 150° occasionally is the hottest it ever got. 😐... Oh boy!
Hey I have a problem with my 10” sub, it has been working well for a long time, but recently I noticed a small rattling noise. I’ve taken the sub out of the box and looked at it, it reads 4 ohms, when I tap on the driver it sounds normal, but when I push down there’s a very soft rubbing noise, please answer this if you know or have an idea what the problem is, also I have checked the spider
I have 2 Hcca 12" 4ohm running 1 d5000 amp the gray one is that good enough and my friend has same subs but 15" but running just 1 with the new d500 the red one
I agree. I personally match a sub with an amp from data given on sub or vice versa. 600w rms 1Ω sub needs 600w rms 1 Ω amp. That gives me great power handling. Correct amp tuning helps avoid so called" i didn't even use half power"!!!
I have a idq12v3 d4 and my magnet slipped out alignment and stuck the coil down. I got it out and the bottom is a little dark but at the top there is one wire with a scrape on it can I still use the coil
I'm not sure how you would reuse the coil since the whole thing has to be torn down to rebuild it after fixing the motor, but if the coil impedance reads correctly it could be reused. A nick in the coil isn't a big deal unless it caused a break in the wire or it's barely connected where it will blow out during play.
Copper is the best cost to performance wire. Gold would be better but outrageously expensive. Silver wire would be the absolute best, but again, outrageously expensive.
I once clipped my sub. It started to give off light smell, that gradually got worse. What i found out interesting was that dustcap was really cold. Is that bad cooling design or is it clipping that makes cooling fail?
KMDrush69 clipping generates heat. If the dust cap was cool you were clipping at low power or the dust cap will never got hot by design of what's happening under the dust cap that you can't see, like stacked and spaces caps or a plug.
Ok. That made some things clear. I think Ill add some details... subwoofer has pretty beefy motor, 3 inch coil and its rated for 1400w rms. it has vents side on basket and on motor side it has pretty big hole in center(you can see back of dustcap trough it and its the size of a thumb). I have Alphard audio amp rated at 2000w @1ohm. (bought it new from official dealer) Its very interesting that when I play without clipping the dustcap actually gets a bit warm and there is no smell, but as soon it sees even tiny bit of clip it starts to smell really fast and dustcap is cold. And big thanks for your reply! :)
KMDrush69 More holes or bigger holes doesn't mean better cooling. It might be cooler when clipping because you're driving it to more xmax that is helping it cool. When it's not moving much it's not cooling, which will make it hot.
EMF Audio I just cant stop revisiting this video. Its soo interesting :). Is it okay for copper coil to be shiny at top, but darker at bottom and nearly dark at the end. No signs of bubbling, no holes, no unraveling, no smell.
So I had a cheap SDR 15 but I have a good audio Dynamics amp with the bass knob I was playing it and I turn on one song and all of a sudden the sub started to sound like s*** sounded like the coil was coming undone but so when I went back to the box I could smell it so I took it out anyways I'm looking at the coil right now it has the regular copper coil but like you showed on the black one that has gaps it has a whole bunch of gaps like that but it's not black at all but it really don't play anymore because I had it hooked up in the house and it got worse and worse sounds like s*** basically you're saying I was overpowering it but isn't overpowering basically clipping because if you're overpowering it it's going to burn the voice coil
@@EMFAudio What kind of epoxy I have already tried several and nothing. I recently bought the hernon but still haven't used it. Please can you help me with that information, thank you ..
Warranty typically states manufacturer defects are covered, not because it's broken for any reason. If you clip the hell out of it, nobody is going to warranty that. If you're using it outside of specifications, like more than rated power or the enclosure is way too big or way too small, nobody is going to warranty that.
Okay so I have had numerous systems over the years and I have always wondered if you push a sub at its limits or just under and start to smell the coils and immediately turn it down or off amd.let it cool before playing it again, does it cause damage to the coil or weaken its power handling capabilities at all???
That depends on the coil, really. Coils on certain subs I've shown how bad they are that might be the point where the glue on the former is about to let go, or starting to let go. It might be too late, still play, but not how it should. In most cases you're safe, but there are exceptions depending on the coil design.
EMF Audio well in my most recent experience it was with an audiobahn 1805q on an audiobahn a2300hcq amplifier according to their specs they should be a perfect match but if I play it full tilt I begin to smell the coils with that awful smell subs give when they are blown.... I sure hope I did not burn or hurt the sub because it is quite rare now as old as they are and it does a respectable 143.6db on stock electrics in my 08 Lincoln mkx
I'm wondering how the diameter of the voice coil wire affects the sound? And if all speakers are made to the same standard Ω why do different speakers sound different?
OK . if I order say maybe a 12" lowballer. and don't like it . is there a chance of return & refund? I'm not hard on sub's. I'm more in to sound quality. but I like my Quality loud and low! but if I like it I would be buying more. unless I can get about 150db from 1 12", all o have is a little JL amp now. on a single 12", but I'm so in happy with it. its a cheap no name 12", it came in the car.
The return policy is on the website so you can see it's entirety. How much power is your amp? You won't be doing 150 with a single 12 without spending a lot more money on a higher line sub and I suspect a good bit more power. I will say that 2 Lowballer 12's are doing 150's with under 2,000 watts in a Focus hatchback, in a musical box.
"bad" can mean a few things. If I had to guess you probably clipped the sub to death, no fault of the amp other than saying they do way more power than they actually do so your expectations are higher.
thanks for the vídeo, have a brand of woofer in brazil that the trail of the copper coil brakes, like a dot,only one turn of the coil, the color is like the original color, what do you think about? is a material problem? thanks in regard
Question: New sub, loaded enclosure, Kicker TL7T 12. I played it, at slightly under rated power, for about 1hr30m-ish and no clipping. I didn't notice it then, but I did later, the subwoofer has a slight burn smell to it, if I'm near it. If I smell around what would be the cap area, I can smell it pretty good. It still seems to play just fine, no issues what so ever. So is my subwoofer now on borrowed time? did I run it on high RMS for too long? or is it going to be fine?
That's normal that's break in period the subwoofer is new so it's breaking in and it's the first time the glue gets hot so you're going to smell the voice coil it's normal I'm 2 months late is the sub still playing good?
@@nickolasvaughn667 yes, subwoofer still plays good. Smell is gone to my knowledge. Haven't had a long road trip in a bit to play it that hard. Seems to be just fine. I did error on the side of caution and turn the power to my amp down a hair and I watch to make sure I'm not clipping.
Not pissing on any brands because I see cool features etc in a bunch of quality car audio equipment. But I had friends that were trying to get me to go Brazilian - Nice products but nope (personal choice) I will stick with Korean for now. Nice video
@@MrRevocutus Like I said, they both have their place in design. Generally speaking, once you get into larger coils, being pure copper can have big side effects that aren't desirable because of the mass of the coil.
Great video.. Very informative. What does colirub sound like? Would it cause metal fragments to be in the speaker box? I recently blew one Sub. Had More power than it can handle .I'm curious what the coil looks like. I will be my 1st time
It sounds like a light grinding. There is no scenario where you should have metal fragments in the box. If it's from the coil, it had a hole blown through it. Even then it shouldn't be very big pieces.
The speaker was frozen in place. I push it all the way down to look at the coil. As I was moving around I saw a piece of the coil that was definitely scratched about 2" exposing bare copper. There is also what looks like a coating of metal dust inside the magnet hole
WhaT if the coil is bright copper with some black lines but the ohms on each coil are both reading at 3.7 its 4 ohm dvc. Dont that mean sub is not blown ?? Im getting what I think is clipping one night perfect sounding . Car in my car next day and turned it on and sounded like shit ! Why??
Bright copper with some black lines could be the coating on the coil being thicker in the dark spots. I've seen it at the top and bottom of the coil. Otherwise it may be burnt, at the bottom of the coil would be the most common for a poorly cooling sub. If it suddenly sounds bad one day and didn't the day before you may have bubbled the former or started to unwind the coil.
Funny how I have a Rockford Fosgate T-1000.1BD and a set of Q Power 15 inch Deluxe dual 4 ohm subs ran at a hair below clipping in a sealed box for 8 years and they still haven't blown . I bought a pair of sundown SA 15s and they smell like they are about to blow the coils . Power is clean and subsonic is on @ 28hz and low pass at 80 hz . EQ also has low pass set at 60 hz for sub . Q powers were taking this beating for years and I only changed them out because I thought I should upgrade to a better sub . Is it normal for subs to smell when new and giving them a lil bit below rated power . All gains were set using oscilloscope and head unit checked for clipping volume .
Fresh subs will usually have a smell to them when heat is applied, for a little while. That goes away. Another consideration is the box they're in, may or may not be correct, that can cause issues too.
@@EMFAudio box is exactly 2 ft³ per sub interior dimension . Specs for new sundown sub call for 2.5 ft³ . Would it be ok or could that burn coils ? I'm going to build the box a tad bit bigger but I just wanted to see how they sounded in prefab box until I built the new one . I could only add another .5 cubes per sub and my trunk space will be maxed out . Thanks for the reply and keep those vids coming they help out alot when choosing equipment and figuring out what we can get if we have some cash to spend . I'm surprised those cheap Q power subs haven't blown out yet . The coils are probably black as coal by now . LOL
Uhh ive had pride st12 5k rms on taramps hd3k, clipped the hell put of it (clip monitor worked as vu meter lmfao) didn't even smell, no smoke, nothing, sub still fine besides being clipped like hell, now its on md8k
Do you know anyone who can make a recone kit for an old Alphasonik PSW8124j? I love this sub, but cooked it pushing it to the limit. totally my fault, made it clip lol. same with my SPL 12's with the aluminum cones, i'd love to redo those as well. also, can you get a recone kit that would in turn allow for more power? I love your videos thanks for all the knowledge!
@@EMFAudio awesome. I'm debating picking up a low baller soon as well, really dig the build quality, especially after the comparison to the Rockville version 2s. Man I used to think the Rockvilles were OK. They're just full of shit.
Really. So how do the coils only rub on one end? Have you got any logica explanation for that except for the coil hanging down? What does this have to do with clipping, please explain. There's logic and there's logic, Just trying to learn here.
Generally the larger motor with same size voice coil will allow more xmax and have more of the coil in the magnetic field generating more force with the same power as a smaller one. Double stack can mean so many things is it another magnet glued on to the bottom of the motor ? Is it faces n-s or oposed as that can actually help as it can get rid of some Eddy current and helps focus magnetic into the voice coil again decreasing loses and making more force from the motor with the same power ( aka louder)
What I like about yall is ya dont oversell the product yall make you just identify parts from a pure part perspective. Verry informative.
I appreciate the lack of oversell as well, they also educate their potential customers as well. I'd rather my customers be informed, than ignorant and easily taken. These guys are a great business
This video deserves more traffic and likes!!! Thanks for the knowledge!!!
Great videos man. You just gained a new subscriber
Holy shit, such a massive coil assembly! And insane electrical destruction too... exactly like someone struck an arc across it with a welder. Big power on both sides.
I really hate it when the coil starts to slip or unravel without the coil itself not even burning. Mainly on cheaper subs. Just because the coil can handle 500 degrees. Doesn't mean that the glue and former can take the abuse.
like when you cant even smell them and they just blow on like 100w extra?
@@loganmilam4065 literally lol
Great video.good bass knowledge.keep bringing that bass.
Question: So if the coil started out as a bright shiny copper & turned dark, is it still good as long as the glue hasn't melted? Or the coil hasn't come loose?
looks like CSI in car audio
k ebonia Grissom forgot to wear his rubber gloves
Yea that’s why I still have my old school fosgate equipment with all stinger pro wire been running it for years ..the coils on my power hx2’s still look new
John Doe A brand new high quality amp from China would give the same result. The super cheap class D and Brazilian amps are the ones that cause the most problems.
I used to get coils where the form would start to bubble, but the coil was perfectly fine. As a result of the bubbled form, it would eventually start to rub, and the more it bubbled the more it would rub until it eventually got stuck.
That's a result of the former and coil expanding from heat at different rates, the coil being less and the former being more.
Forensics that really sounds funny man but still serious because that knowledge rigth there👍
I asked the other day in a comment on another video how to tell if was caused by over power or clipping. This helps. Guess i should have watched more of your videos.
What is that fiberglass tape called above the coil winding that holds the glue on the spider? The stuff all over the top of the form? I remember it just as fiberglass tape but i cant find the right stuff to buy
Very educational. How do the coils look on 120v outlet vs 240v outlet?
lol 7:54 *"so to all you lyin, cheatin son's uh bitches who THINK you can pull 1 over on ME!?....no, the coil never lies. YOU...lie."*
Clipping is known to send disproportionate amounts of power to tweeters in full range speakers, but does it really make much difference on a sub, other than just extra power going to the coil in general? Running continuous bass tones near tuning or higher bass frequencies will generate lower impedance and also cause less coil movement that would evict heat from a vented pole piece. Excessive burst power could damage suspensions and spiders, yank coils away from cones or cause coil turns to come unglued if they aren't up to snuff. Bottoming out can dent coils, causing permanent rub.
Yes, it does matter on a sub. You CAN hear it, and it also just dumps heat. Less coil movement would INCREASE heat at that coil, pole venting isn't doing much of anything, and pole air isn't where the bulk of the heat is. Excessive burst power (within reason) only damages the sub if it's designed and built poorly. A good design won't bottom out and dent the coil, and breaking glue joints is just poor assembly. None of those are things our subs experience. We intentionally put over 7x rated power on them for a burst without failure.
The coil that had the 10k on it, how much was the sub rated for rms? 3" I'm guessing between 2500-3000? So a 10k even after decent rise would still be around 5000 minimum. I think you said it best this is the only hobby where people will push stuff 2-3x past what it's rated for then still blame the product. LOL!
Flexin Five Hundred 2,500 rating on that sub. It didn't last long on that amp.
LOL depending on the coil 1200 or so RMS+
Or they buy a 1k amp and crank the gain all the way up trying to get 3k out of it then blame a sub for dying not knowing it was basically being fed dc and being used as a space heater
I remember some car audio company's, were not listing RMS ratings, and when asked about it, they would tell you that "if you have to ask, it's not the sub for you" but, that has been awhile. No voice coil is "rated for power" and that's a huge misconception, and anyone that tells you otherwise, is just trying to push a product. And on a side note, the difference in the color of the enamel, depends on how hot the coil was baked for curing, and or how the process was done.
When i got my resilient sounds subs the coils seemed to have tiny gaps in them i didn’t know at that time but i do now and i hope that doesn’t affect my warranty..
Can you refurbish a coil like the one in 3:20? I have an American Bass HD that ohms out fine but I pulled the drop in and seen a coil just like this but about half as bad. No rub before I pulled it. I was originally fixing cone vibration lol
Interesting information, thanks!
So i have a two resilient gold 12s on a 5k sundown sfb crossover an epic a ever star battery in the back an a dry cell under the hood started stinking an the voice coils can unravel from the bottom was i running dirty power or not enough power or to much power need help
Why would the spider come off the former? I have 3 subs with dual spider an inch apart. All 3 subs, the inner spider came unglued from the coil and its been playing like this for some time. I only found out because I modified my port, would this be something Covered by warranty?
"I love the smell of burnt voice coils in the morning"
My coils on my G2 Genesys 15s are starting to look a little bubbly in spots. I have smelled them a few times as well as clipped them. Is this a sign of reaching coil failure?
What does it mean when the coil falls off the former in one solid chunk, no burning, no holes sub had maybe 30 minutes of play time
So even if the coil turns black but no bubbles or rubbing sound, its still good?? Or still needed to re-cone???... Or i can still use the sub and supply it with the rated power it has.... Or underpower it for safety??
Because my uncle gave me a 12inch sub 1K rms 16kg heavy, and I noticed that the coil is black like charcoal, not like the brand new one that copper color, but when i test it, it's still good sounding no coil rub or what so ever...
Yeah the image dynamics are designed for being able to take apart with having to tear the spider or surround apart. Thanks for your help
What does it mean when you push on a sub and it starts playing? I did that twice and then it died...is that the tinsel lead soldering?
I had an Alpine Type R that started sounding horrible. At low volume, you could hear the dreaded scratching. Checked the impedence on both coils and it was fine. Opened her up and all I see is what looks like copper rubbed off (aluminum showing?). It's only in one tiny spot about 4mm wide and only 2 strands tall. It's about 1/2 down on the coil. What would be the cause of that?
The only other thing I saw was the former isn't completely closed. There's like a 2-3mm gap. Not sure if it's supposed to be like that.
That sounds like something was in the gap. That was the rubbing sound, and the marks left from it. The former not being closed, at least what you were seeing, is normal.
I watched this video while waiting for a delivery, every time I heard that back up alarm I started looking around IRl.
Does a high temperature paint with the epoxy help to keep the voice coil cool? Or do coils not work well with a high temperature paint applied to them?
Coils aren't painted at all.
So the dust on the last coil was cause by current arching, do this is related to Brazilian amps having a really high voltage power rail?
The dust is smoke residue.
So what do you do when some immoral person sends in his burned coil for undeserved warranty work? Cheaters tend to get nasty when they get caught! I hope that fact doesn't deter you from doing what's right.
they do have a high power rail, a lot like the HCCA amps and others, but the cause is lack of supplied voltage to the amp i would think and possible poor filtering or boosts from the caps inside, it is not a steady voltage and is usually because people try to overpower with cheaper amps without extra batts better alts ect ect, and well cheap amps just are what they are, they are cheap for a reason.
I have a stereo integrity sql12 on a slash 1000/1 for about 2 months and now it’s making a noise. People are saying it’s a bad coil but it doesn’t make any noise when I push on the woofer. I had a 10w7 and 12w7 on the same setup and they didn’t have any issues. Could it still be a coil even though it doesn’t make a sound when pushing on the cone?
I have 2 EMF ermagerd 18s from a guy in canada that had 6... he had clean power on them and the coil went on him at his first show....they all got PSI recones and I have 2 playing in my car now. It makes me wonder how the original coils went so fast. He had crossfire 8ks on them 6 of them. It would have been a beast if he didnt give up on it.
Im building a sub and notice there are options for coils. obviously size but also round or flat wire, aluminum or copper, etc.
It will be a 15" sub, just under 200oz magnet and i'm thinking 2.5" or 3" voice coil. Any suggestions on coil type??
How would I calculate power handling? Great, informative video btw!
The weight of the magnet means nothing. The coil diameter is determined by the motor, that isn't an option. There are benefits and drawbacks of various coil selections which are dependent on other factors of the motor and soft parts. Power handling you can only have starting points based on the coil diameter and length but you can't simply calculate anything because of considerations with the motor and suspension.
3:10 would be this coil still usable when you don't overdrive it anymore?
Hi, I’m looking to buy some specific 3” voice coils, do you sell them separate?
Do an educational video talking about the performance, sound differences between, and pros & cons of 4-layer vs 8-layer coils
I really need help here I have a skar svr 15 800 rms 1600 watt max it’s a 2 ohm sub so it’s wired to 4 ohms on a 1500 watt ssl amp the sub gets hot on the magnet but it dosent smell burnt and the amp is all the way down
On a dual
Coil . Would the inner
Have a diagonal line all the way top to bottom about ..075 wide
What is the main benefit from a aluminium coil? better cooling capabilities, power handling, less weight in the moving mass?
Generally less weight. Electrically, aluminium is inferior. They require more engineering to get them on a decent efficiency. Luckily, most of that is already figured out and 'public domain' knowledge.
Was wondering if you could build a custom voice coil if given exact dimensions.
Have an 18" basket and cone, and ss audio 12" motor.
A 4" 75 lb motor is silly for a 12"
Building a more practical sub...lol.
Using 1000-2000 wrms.
Might need a few spacers and a standoff, to use the DC audio 18" medium spiders.
Also have a dozen or so L7 solobarics to recone with some maxxonics cones.
We don't wind coils, nobody does. It takes specialized equipment to do it, when we get coils made we have to make an entire run of them.
Good stuff, I do my best to watch one of your info vids a daySo would you say copper handles heat better or worse than the aluminum?
Copper does handle heat better, but sometimes what it contributes to design aspects can CAUSE more heat so it ends up being a wash.
Has manufacturers ever put a temp sensor in the coil to monitor it so you keep the coil happy
Quick question if you were to exceed the subwoofers rated rms power rating and give it more rms power than what it's rated to handle will the subwoofer bottom out and what exactly does that mean when that happens
Bottoming out is reaching a mechanical limit at the bottom stroke. Typically used to refer to smacking the back plate. That isn't from exceeding rated power.
I've got a copper coil on the JL 8w7 that appears to just have unraveled a few turns on the bottom of the coil. Do you think it bottomed out and blew due to the impact? No other discoloration or rubbing marks.
To my knowledge you can't bottom those out, so it would have just gotten hot and unraveled.
Thanks for the video. I'm about to cut open my sub that quit working and see what it looks like in there.
My sub is 1ohm sub but multimeter reads 1.5 is it still good when I press on the cone hear nothing pushes in and out just fine
yes I have been out of audio for a few years. that's why I have just discovered this company. from what I have seen. its an A OK #1 company. now its time to hear and feel some subs in action. I like extremely clean bass. hope they van deliver. because I love the looks!
Pick some up and judge for yourself, you can order any time at www.emfcaraudio.com
What gives rms power, the coil or the magnet
Great video! Can you tell me anything about the coil in a JL 12W3v3-4? I can see some minor black bubbling on the coil through the gaps in the basket and am thinking about trying to repair it. Is it possible to make my own coil and replace it? I am down for a challenge. Any info would be awesome!
No, you can not wind your own coil. I've never reconed one to know much about that coil used but JL's general design philosophy is 2 layer coils that aren't particularly long (except W7), wound on plastic formers.
Nice explanation! I know when I used to run a competitors sub (not dropping names) that seems to have issues with coils all the time, and people would get mad because they would always say user error. After seeing this I would be curious how often they get some of those just fried or holed coils and the customer is flipping out saying that it's a crappy sub when they just committed subwoofer homicide. LOL!
I know of one brand we do a lot of recones for locally that have coil problems because they're just crap coils, or should be rated for less power. But, I also know people think a power rating means run double that on it and if it fails it's the products fault.
Does that company's name start with a "S" and end in qubed?
I can't confirm nor deny...but yes it was soundqubed. LOL!
Lol...yeah thats what I have heard. But don't get me wrong I have 2 HDC3 15's on 2k each with no issues yet....but they do get warm and I dont full tilt for long. But I have some ZV4 motors coming my way for me build that can handle some abuse and get windy.
How do you determine how far the voice coil should be put down in the ring at the bottom of the basket? Is there a measurement from top of coil to the spider or does the coil just pushed down where it won't go any further into the basket? TIA
The middle of the coil windings go in the middle of the top plate.
@@EMFAudio thank you!!
GREAT VIDEO! QUESTION: I have never had a subwoofer bottom out. Alpine 8" type R dual 2 ohm rated350 watt rms per coil. being powered by alpine MVR 250 ( 250 watt at 2ohm 150 watt at 4 ohm ) wired at 1ohm. I only hear the tick of what I assume is a voice coil tap against the magnet. Would this be caused by 1ohm wiring? or Air leak in sealed box? or just over power?
DSM Dallas You may be hearing light clipping from running it at 1 ohm. Typically if you're tapping the coil on the backplate you don't do that too many times before it's destroyed. Now, I think it's also impossible to do that on that sub so it might also be mechanical noise from the spiders or maybe lead slap on the cone.
I've had a couple subs back in the days where spider just wasn't glued properly and the spider came loose. Luckily, in each case, all I had to do was reglue it and it fixed the problem.
Is it possible for a sub that clearly says on the speaker box itself that it's 175 watts rms and your amp that was professionally put in is tuned for 150 and they by the way admitted to that isn't that under powering I'm asking because I finally got a sub that came with a 500 watt max amp it's a nice 10 inch kenwood but it is connected to the crappy stock radio well the question is that when I changed my fade on the stereo itself to focus more on the back it definitely worked in making the sub louder it was noticeable and I didn't think anything of doing that except in doing so it blew the sub it wasn't a real expensive sub and amp but it was the only one I could afford it actually hits pretty good I was starting to like the sub im just wondering was it wrong to adjust the fade like that because I have no clue on the amp itself what knob to turn that's why I decided to just turn down the front speakers and have it on the back I don't think I did anything wrong but I am a little pissed because I payed good money for this and they would not tune the amp so it at least do the 175 not 150 can you please tell me if it's on them or me I really want to know
If the signal for the amp was setup on the rear channels and it was faded forward, then you changed it so the fade was at 0 or more to the rear, you would have essentially changed it so the amp made more power, blowing the sub. If it was set to 0 and you just reduced the front volume fading to the rear it wouldn't change anything with that. But it is possible you turned the volume up past where they had it set for or they set it incorrectly.
Also fun fact about the Brazilian amplifiers is they use _extremely_ high voltage rails to drive the bridged amplifier section, often without filtering. Im guessing the higher multi-kW ones run at about 160V from the 200V capacitors often seen. This combined with lack of filtering allows for less current to be used for the same drive power, and thus fewer switching transistors. The downside is if the voice coil suffers a broken section (and no inductance), the voltage will basically shoot straight up to the rail voltage since there's no filtering on the class-D output, and thus flash over, causing all the melted and burned sections seen.
if it suffers a broken section it is already dead, usually caused by low voltage supplied to the amp anyhow, they just try to overcompensate, just need an amp good enough to shut off when your volatge is shit.
@nate0 Obviously you wouldn't, just like you wouldn't want to continue to run an engine with a rod knock, but it happens. A typical scenario would be multiple subs and you might not hear one is failing right away, so it ends up nuking itself in the process. Since the voice coil has a fair bit of inductance, if the amp has no output filtering and no proper clamping on the output, it can generate quite a lot of back-EMF if the coil opens up, thus leading to flashover. Don't know how many were/are susceptible to this, but its a distinct possibility since filterless class-D is really for undemanding things like consumer electronics, not high power car audio amplifiers. These also have the undesirable characteristic of having substantial voltage on the speaker terminals even with the amp idling since each terminal will be toggling between the two respective power rails.
Your "fun fact" about Brazilian amplifiers is completely incorrect.
Brazilian amps being "extremely high voltage" is an old myth/misconception.
Brazilian (full bridge) amplifiers use much lower rail voltage than their half bridge counterparts.
@@danielbujold7262 First off, a full-bridge amplifier doesn't use "much lower voltage", it just doesn't have a bipolar power supply. Half-bridge designs have to have + and - rails to be able to provide the full swing about the ground reference. With a full-bridge design, the bridge does the polarity flipping, so only one rail is needed. That said, the rail must provide sufficient voltage to actually drive the load, and as such will use similar voltages as the half-bridge amps, but just with only one rail, and half the number of rail caps. Just doing some basic math, 2 kW RMS into a 2Ω load requires 63V RMS, or 88V peak. In a full-bridge design, this would be 90V at the rail. In a half-bridge design, this would be ±90V.
@@danielbujold7262 And I think that may have come from a barevids video where he looked at the outputs of a full-bridge amp. That can cause some confusion since normally just one output will be swinging while the other sits at ground. Off the top of my head, the outputs on a full-bridge should be of opposite phase to add up to the full drive voltage once the drive signal has passed thru the filter networks.
I have a active subwoofer. So thing is that when I crank the system to half way sub at 0 same for EQ it tends to make this burnt smell from the sub. I don’t play bass boosted songs so I have two guesses either the amp burning up (4ohm 50W) or my Boss Audio 8” 600W voice coil burning...?
Bass Junkie you may be clipping the sub. Realisticly that sub is probably 100-150 rms.
EMF Audio www.amazon.com/dp/B00I9TSXKI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_1FbXAbQ7R289D
Your right company lied thing maxes around 80-100W well that explains why my stock sub made the same smell. Well now I know what a slightly burnt voice coil smells like.
Burnt smells are never good, regardless of what's happening.
DO YOU GUYS STILL MAKE THE EMF AUDIO ERMAGERD'S WITH THE MAGNET SLUGS OR JUST THE SQUARE MOTORS I LOVE BOTH OF THEM AND I'M SORRY IF YOU SAID SO ALREADY BUT COULD YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW THE PRICE OF THE MOTOR WITH THE MAGNETS AND THE SQUARE MOTORS ALSO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
We haven't made the v1 in 4-5 years, the v2 we aren't producing right now but may again in the future.
I have been watching many videos trying to get a technical answer of what makes a speaker/subwoofer 2, 4, 8 ohm?
I replied to your email.
So I have been wondering for a while, is it possible for you to clip your sub if your alternator cannot put out enough power for your amp?
Yes, low voltage will absolutely cause clipping.
Clipped my subwoofers for 5 seconds because I had a unknown voltage drop at full tilt
Right now my w7 is starting to sound like a slinky on certain bass notes, had to lower my gain but now it hits nowhere near as hard … looks like I clipped it to much
I need to pull my EVL from its enclosure.
I've been running this 12 on that 1000.1 for a few months now and it started making a coil noise and the clip light flashes bright red at bass peaks.
I don't understand.
I've been monitoring the heat with an inferred thermometer and 150° occasionally is the hottest it ever got.
😐... Oh boy!
All of that makes sense.
Hey I have a problem with my 10” sub, it has been working well for a long time, but recently I noticed a small rattling noise. I’ve taken the sub out of the box and looked at it, it reads 4 ohms, when I tap on the driver it sounds normal, but when I push down there’s a very soft rubbing noise, please answer this if you know or have an idea what the problem is, also I have checked the spider
With as little as you've told me, my guess is the former may be bubbled.
I have 2 Hcca 12" 4ohm running 1 d5000 amp the gray one is that good enough and my friend has same subs but 15" but running just 1 with the new d500 the red one
I'm looking for a coil that is 2.75 in Long and the and the closest I can find is a little over three should be fine right
A coil too long can have a mechanical collision, a coil too short will limit Xmax. Pick your battle.
What is the difference and reasoning for different indications of clipping from Chinese Korean and Brazilian.etc?
The waveform is very different. Even under a normal condition they can look different, but when clipped there are often HUGE differences.
@@EMFAudio pretty cool
I agree. I personally match a sub with an amp from data given on sub or vice versa. 600w rms 1Ω sub needs 600w rms 1 Ω amp. That gives me great power handling. Correct amp tuning helps avoid so called" i didn't even use half power"!!!
I have a idq12v3 d4 and my magnet slipped out alignment and stuck the coil down. I got it out and the bottom is a little dark but at the top there is one wire with a scrape on it can I still use the coil
I'm not sure how you would reuse the coil since the whole thing has to be torn down to rebuild it after fixing the motor, but if the coil impedance reads correctly it could be reused. A nick in the coil isn't a big deal unless it caused a break in the wire or it's barely connected where it will blow out during play.
Which type of wire is at very best to use Like for example : aluminum, copper, gold etc
Copper is the best cost to performance wire. Gold would be better but outrageously expensive. Silver wire would be the absolute best, but again, outrageously expensive.
I once clipped my sub. It started to give off light smell, that gradually got worse. What i found out interesting was that dustcap was really cold. Is that bad cooling design or is it clipping that makes cooling fail?
KMDrush69 clipping generates heat. If the dust cap was cool you were clipping at low power or the dust cap will never got hot by design of what's happening under the dust cap that you can't see, like stacked and spaces caps or a plug.
Ok. That made some things clear. I think Ill add some details... subwoofer has pretty beefy motor, 3 inch coil and its rated for 1400w rms. it has vents side on basket and on motor side it has pretty big hole in center(you can see back of dustcap trough it and its the size of a thumb).
I have Alphard audio amp rated at 2000w @1ohm. (bought it new from official dealer)
Its very interesting that when I play without clipping the dustcap actually gets a bit warm and there is no smell, but as soon it sees even tiny bit of clip it starts to smell really fast and dustcap is cold.
And big thanks for your reply! :)
KMDrush69 More holes or bigger holes doesn't mean better cooling. It might be cooler when clipping because you're driving it to more xmax that is helping it cool. When it's not moving much it's not cooling, which will make it hot.
EMF Audio I just cant stop revisiting this video. Its soo interesting :). Is it okay for copper coil to be shiny at top, but darker at bottom and nearly dark at the end. No signs of bubbling, no holes, no unraveling, no smell.
KMDrush69 That sounds like it's burnt from poor cooling. Is the motor not vented or vented very little but a lot of basket venting?
good day friend. someone to explain how to work with that black pegento, buy it and not how to use it. thanks.
So I had a cheap SDR 15 but I have a good audio Dynamics amp with the bass knob I was playing it and I turn on one song and all of a sudden the sub started to sound like s*** sounded like the coil was coming undone but so when I went back to the box I could smell it so I took it out anyways I'm looking at the coil right now it has the regular copper coil but like you showed on the black one that has gaps it has a whole bunch of gaps like that but it's not black at all but it really don't play anymore because I had it hooked up in the house and it got worse and worse sounds like s*** basically you're saying I was overpowering it but isn't overpowering basically clipping because if you're overpowering it it's going to burn the voice coil
friend, what is the name of that black glue with which they make those coils.?
Epoxy?
@@EMFAudio What kind of epoxy I have already tried several and nothing. I recently bought the hernon but still haven't used it. Please can you help me with that information, thank you ..
So if a sub has 1 year warranty and it blows for whatever reason is it still covered under warranty?
Warranty typically states manufacturer defects are covered, not because it's broken for any reason. If you clip the hell out of it, nobody is going to warranty that. If you're using it outside of specifications, like more than rated power or the enclosure is way too big or way too small, nobody is going to warranty that.
Okay so I have had numerous systems over the years and I have always wondered if you push a sub at its limits or just under and start to smell the coils and immediately turn it down or off amd.let it cool before playing it again, does it cause damage to the coil or weaken its power handling capabilities at all???
That depends on the coil, really. Coils on certain subs I've shown how bad they are that might be the point where the glue on the former is about to let go, or starting to let go. It might be too late, still play, but not how it should. In most cases you're safe, but there are exceptions depending on the coil design.
EMF Audio well in my most recent experience it was with an audiobahn 1805q on an audiobahn a2300hcq amplifier according to their specs they should be a perfect match but if I play it full tilt I begin to smell the coils with that awful smell subs give when they are blown.... I sure hope I did not burn or hurt the sub because it is quite rare now as old as they are and it does a respectable 143.6db on stock electrics in my 08 Lincoln mkx
It's possible you were clipping it, which would cause that smell even if using rated power.
EMF Audio very likely
I'm wondering how the diameter of the voice coil wire affects the sound? And if all speakers are made to the same standard Ω why do different speakers sound different?
Thats a good question might have to do with xmax and the motor
Can you fix a pioneer hpm 150 woofer with voice coil damage can you fix the coil it self or does it have to be replaced
All the soft parts have to be replaced.
OK . if I order say maybe a 12" lowballer. and don't like it . is there a chance of return & refund? I'm not hard on sub's. I'm more in to sound quality. but I like my Quality loud and low! but if I like it I would be buying more. unless I can get about 150db from 1 12", all o have is a little JL amp now. on a single 12", but I'm so in happy with it. its a cheap no name 12", it came in the car.
The return policy is on the website so you can see it's entirety. How much power is your amp? You won't be doing 150 with a single 12 without spending a lot more money on a higher line sub and I suspect a good bit more power. I will say that 2 Lowballer 12's are doing 150's with under 2,000 watts in a Focus hatchback, in a musical box.
I have a pioneer gmd9601, is that a bad amp because one of my voice coils are stuck and the other was knocked loose, please help
"bad" can mean a few things. If I had to guess you probably clipped the sub to death, no fault of the amp other than saying they do way more power than they actually do so your expectations are higher.
And what type of amp would you prefer to use? The Korean? The Brazilian? Or why?
I prefer Korean. They're stable and reliable, much cleaner too.
thanks for the vídeo, have a brand of woofer in brazil that the trail of the copper coil brakes, like a dot,only one turn of the coil, the color is like the original color, what do you think about? is a material problem? thanks in regard
If I understand how you are describing it is probably a material problem.
thanks! i shared a photo in google photo for you photos.app.goo.gl/0cyB3dsNP4tgwlJu2
That looks like it was near it's power limits and found a weak spot in the wire.
thanks for the attention my friend!
Thanks for the info
Low key hilarious video
Question: New sub, loaded enclosure, Kicker TL7T 12. I played it, at slightly under rated power, for about 1hr30m-ish and no clipping. I didn't notice it then, but I did later, the subwoofer has a slight burn smell to it, if I'm near it. If I smell around what would be the cap area, I can smell it pretty good. It still seems to play just fine, no issues what so ever. So is my subwoofer now on borrowed time? did I run it on high RMS for too long? or is it going to be fine?
That's normal that's break in period the subwoofer is new so it's breaking in and it's the first time the glue gets hot so you're going to smell the voice coil it's normal I'm 2 months late is the sub still playing good?
@@nickolasvaughn667 yes, subwoofer still plays good. Smell is gone to my knowledge. Haven't had a long road trip in a bit to play it that hard. Seems to be just fine. I did error on the side of caution and turn the power to my amp down a hair and I watch to make sure I'm not clipping.
@@scottstamm7022 yep as long as you're not clipping you will be good yeah when subs are breaking in they stink
If the subwoofer cone were to move in and out too far by too many inches will the coil smack the back plate of the subwoofer
If the design allows for it, yes. In many design cases (like when I design one) that isn't possible.
Not pissing on any brands because I see cool features etc in a bunch of quality car audio equipment. But I had friends that were trying to get me to go Brazilian - Nice products but nope (personal choice) I will stick with Korean for now. Nice video
Bigvell02 don’t you rock Brazilian now?
Hi, very nice. For the advice which wire material is more better for voice coil ( pure copper vs CCAW)?. Thank you please reply
"better" is relative. Both have their place in design.
for Bass speaker (Sub-woofer)
@@MrRevocutus Like I said, they both have their place in design. Generally speaking, once you get into larger coils, being pure copper can have big side effects that aren't desirable because of the mass of the coil.
Can the coil still get burnt
Great video.. Very informative. What does colirub sound like? Would it cause metal fragments to be in the speaker box? I recently blew one Sub. Had More power than it can handle .I'm curious what the coil looks like. I will be my 1st time
It sounds like a light grinding. There is no scenario where you should have metal fragments in the box. If it's from the coil, it had a hole blown through it. Even then it shouldn't be very big pieces.
The speaker was frozen in place. I push it all the way down to look at the coil. As I was moving around I saw a piece of the coil that was definitely scratched about 2" exposing bare copper. There is also what looks like a coating of metal dust inside the magnet hole
They were not big pieces. They were silver in color and I know they weren't there when I put this sub in. 600 rms running and 800-900
WhaT if the coil is bright copper with some black lines but the ohms on each coil are both reading at 3.7 its 4 ohm dvc. Dont that mean sub is not blown ?? Im getting what I think is clipping one night perfect sounding . Car in my car next day and turned it on and sounded like shit ! Why??
Bright copper with some black lines could be the coating on the coil being thicker in the dark spots. I've seen it at the top and bottom of the coil. Otherwise it may be burnt, at the bottom of the coil would be the most common for a poorly cooling sub. If it suddenly sounds bad one day and didn't the day before you may have bubbled the former or started to unwind the coil.
@@EMFAudio alright thanks for the reply . Take care
Great info!
Funny how I have a Rockford Fosgate T-1000.1BD and a set of Q Power 15 inch Deluxe dual 4 ohm subs ran at a hair below clipping in a sealed box for 8 years and they still haven't blown . I bought a pair of sundown SA 15s and they smell like they are about to blow the coils . Power is clean and subsonic is on @ 28hz and low pass at 80 hz . EQ also has low pass set at 60 hz for sub . Q powers were taking this beating for years and I only changed them out because I thought I should upgrade to a better sub . Is it normal for subs to smell when new and giving them a lil bit below rated power . All gains were set using oscilloscope and head unit checked for clipping volume .
Q POWER DELUXE DUAL 4 OHM 15
Specifications:
Peak Power Handling: 2200 Watts
RMS Power Handling: 1100 Watts
Nominal Impedance: 2x4 Ohms
Mounting Depth: 6-3/4"
Cutout Diameter: 13-7/8"
Magnet: 90 Oz.
Resisance: 2x3.2 Ohms
Voice Coil: 3"
Cone Diameter: 320mm
Sealed Air Space: 2.2- 3.8 Cubic Feet
Vented Air Space: 2.8- 3.85 Cubic Feet
Fs (Hz): 30
FREQ RES (Hz): 30~1500
Qms: 7.52
Qes: 0.60
Qts: 0.56
Vas (Liter): 101.37
Xmax: 12mm
Fresh subs will usually have a smell to them when heat is applied, for a little while. That goes away. Another consideration is the box they're in, may or may not be correct, that can cause issues too.
@@EMFAudio box is exactly 2 ft³ per sub interior dimension . Specs for new sundown sub call for 2.5 ft³ . Would it be ok or could that burn coils ? I'm going to build the box a tad bit bigger but I just wanted to see how they sounded in prefab box until I built the new one . I could only add another .5 cubes per sub and my trunk space will be maxed out . Thanks for the reply and keep those vids coming they help out alot when choosing equipment and figuring out what we can get if we have some cash to spend . I'm surprised those cheap Q power subs haven't blown out yet . The coils are probably black as coal by now . LOL
Uhh ive had pride st12 5k rms on taramps hd3k, clipped the hell put of it (clip monitor worked as vu meter lmfao) didn't even smell, no smoke, nothing, sub still fine besides being clipped like hell, now its on md8k
I'm in the process of upgrading to a 5000 watt system what amp would best for 2 12 inch banhammers?
The SCV-4000d is a good match www.emfcaraudio.com/sundown-audio-scv-4000d/
Team CT sounds 4K
Angel Pena He said 5,000 watts, and best.
Do you know anyone who can make a recone kit for an old Alphasonik PSW8124j? I love this sub, but cooked it pushing it to the limit. totally my fault, made it clip lol. same with my SPL 12's with the aluminum cones, i'd love to redo those as well. also, can you get a recone kit that would in turn allow for more power? I love your videos thanks for all the knowledge!
You might check with www.fixmyspeaker.com
@@EMFAudio awesome. I'm debating picking up a low baller soon as well, really dig the build quality, especially after the comparison to the Rockville version 2s. Man I used to think the Rockvilles were OK. They're just full of shit.
can you tell me what is the size of wire used in these voice coils.Please
18 to 24 to 28 he said
What's "dirty power"?
Is there anything to the myth about black high temp epoxy being better than clear
Nope, it's a marketing myth.
Really. So how do the coils only rub on one end? Have you got any logica explanation for that except for the coil hanging down? What does this have to do with clipping, please explain. There's logic and there's logic, Just trying to learn here.
How do you mean rubbing on one end? As in top vs bottom or side vs side? Rubbing has nothing to do with clipping.
72/5000
Question, which is better double magnet motor or magnet of larger size or area ?
There is more to it than that.
Generally the larger motor with same size voice coil will allow more xmax and have more of the coil in the magnetic field generating more force with the same power as a smaller one. Double stack can mean so many things is it another magnet glued on to the bottom of the motor ? Is it faces n-s or oposed as that can actually help as it can get rid of some Eddy current and helps focus magnetic into the voice coil again decreasing loses and making more force from the motor with the same power ( aka louder)