No spark diagnosis and Explanation (GY6)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- In this video we diagnose a Chinese scooter with a GY6 engine that doesn't spark.
I also explain how the system works in a easy to understand way, so you'll be able to fix your scooter yourself.
I hope the video is helpful !
![HOW TO TEST A STATOR / WHAT IS A STATOR [step by step] GY6](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoXYzQ61tRM/mqdefault.jpg)
Next: a helicopter
He'll fix it, surely .
It’s just lift vs. drag and rotation😂🤣
Let’s upvote this comment and make it happen
Area 51 craft!
😂
Whether 4 wheels or 2, the logic of your approach and your clear explanations why things happen, or don't happen is why we're all here. Great result !
Thank you
A fix is a fix 👍
As a guy myself who diagnoses and fixes two wheel stuff as well as four - nice to see some 2 wheel content.
(They get a bit trickier than scooters mind...) :)
Something different for a change 😁
Suddenly I don’t feel so stupid, brilliantly explained and presented, my night is made with a diagnose Dan video 👍
You are not stupid, sometimes we have a lack of knowledge but that has nothing to do with stupid
Side stand safety switch?
I don't care what you are fixing, I always learn from your channel. Love what you do, I know you are a busy man but I wish we could have more videos
Thanks for your great comment
A great detailed diagnosis of this scooter Dan. This will be a great help to a lot of folk trying to fix their own problems.
Thats exactly why i decided to film this one, hopefully it can help some kid trying to fix their scooter
Writing from the States and I loved the vid! Almost a classroom exercise of a simple, but complete system. Keep up the good video.
Thank you
Dan. very well done. From being in the 2-wheel trade myself - Side note: There is a minimum gap to be set between the Reluctor and the Pick-up, as when the gap is too big, the pulse-signal could also be too weak. It could happen when the metal bracket to the pick-up was bend etc. Otherwise, out of many of these online videos I saw, I think yours is just that tad higher quality than most of them.
Thank you, yes you are right if the gap is to wide this will affect the signal. 👍👍👍
@@Diagnosedan - And with "a Tad", I meant, a tad better than most of the best ones. Thank you for sharing your really valuable knowledge with us.
Thank for the clear explanation, I new on this scooter I undertook perfectly the way that ignition works.👍
This is automotive education at is highest and simplest explanation, i work with electric / lpg forklifts and it is never been so relevant than ever when watching Dan explain electrical problem 👍🏻 🤴 pleasure to watch
Thank you!
I always like your explanations. Keep up the good work!
I will, thank you
Absolutely awesome Dan, loved the scooter diagnosis 👌👏👏👏👏👏👏😊
I also enjoyed it
Hiya Danny boy haha, mate I'm sure I'm far from the only one who really really appreciates the time and effort you put into making these videos, and combined with your natural ability to convey often quite technical info in a super easy to understand way for everyone is awesome, your videos are EXCELLENT, keep up the good work, your customers appreciate it, a fan from a land down under 🙂
Thank you John, filming a diagnosis can turn a one hour job into half a day. But all the great comments make it worth it😊
A quick (ish) tip:
I use scopes, I love them, and I teach others to use them - for four wheel stuff and two - but Dan's right in that not everybody will have one. Or even if they have one, at the side of the road they might not have one with them.
Dan is also right (indeed he shows it on the video) that due to both the waveform characteristics of the 'pick up' (a two-wire variable reluctance type 'crank sensor' of sorts in car language) and the way digital multimeters work, you can't get a good read with a DVOM on these kind of signals. Also with the capacitor charging output. Even when Dan sets the multimeter to AC the reading is way off. This is because on AC the meter is expecting a sine wave. So the characteristic shapes of both the 'pick-up' (the timing sensor is you will) and the 'capacitor charging coil' won't be accurately gauged.
(incidentally though, if instead you're testing the AC output from the stator that goes to the reg/rec of a scooter or bike - single phase or three phase - with the connector at the reg/rec disconnected you usually CAN use a normal multimeter on AC volts to measure that - near enough.)
Dan is right in that a lot of people sort of use a multimeter on AC and kind of learn a rule of thumb for these 'not actually what the voltage is' numbers.
For example, on the working stator his capacitor charging coil output at cranking had an actual scope-measured peak voltage of +120V, but only read 77v or so on the meter set to AC, and he stated a rule of thumb that 50 - 100v on the multimeter (set to AC) was considered good.
Similarly, on the pickup it scoped at around 4V for the positive peak voltage, read around 0.4v on the multimeter (set to AC, with multimter neg lead on battery negative, NOT on the earth/other wire from the stator btw) and he states 0.4V to 1.5V AC is good.
This is fine to a point. But some stuff 'spikes' so quick even this 'known flawed' technique with the AC won't work.
So rather than sort of guessing with rules of thumb like that, what is VERY cheap to make (many will know this trick but a lot won't) is a "peak Voltage adapter" for your multimeter. You can literally make one of these with a Diode, a capacitor and a resistor. That is all. You can add other stuff to complicate it, reset it quicker etc, but honestly those three components will work fine.
I have made dozens of these. The details are easily findable online, just google it. DO NOT buy one. Just make one.
These 'capture' (for long enough for you to read off your multimeter set to DC Volts, before the resistor bleeds off the cap) the PEAK positive voltage. If you really want you can make a version that captures the negative peak, but the positive peak voltage is usually the info you're after. They work with the under 5V of the pickup and ALSO the 100 to 200V you get from the output which charges the capacitor in the CDI.
Interestingly, the way CDI works (either so called AC or so called DC) kind of uses this same diode then capacitor set up itself to capture the voltage too, only by way of a thyristor or later electronics it's then actually using the stored charge to put through the coil primary when told to, rather than just holding so you can read it on your multimeter. :)
NOTE. Remember to factor in the forward voltage drop of whatever diode you use. This means the initially stored voltage in the cap that your multimeter reads will be the actual voltage MINUS say, 0.6-0.7V. When you're seeing if the Capacitor Charging coil is peaking at spec, if you're looking for say 120v, an error of around half a volt is no problem. But if you're comparing against a known spec this offset IS a fair amount of the much smaller voltage you'd be looking for on the pick-up.
ALSO, remember if you're using a Peak Voltage Adapter your multimeter is now set on DC. As you're measuring the DC voltage stored in the capacitor of your adapter. This is simply the positive half of the waveform as the diode has 'half wave rectified' if you will.
If you look at a lot of particularly Japanese motorcycle factory service manuals, they will often give the peak voltage minimum requirements for a number of things: the pick-up (even on non CDI bikes too), the CDI charging coil output (on AC CDI bikes), even the primary spike on the ignition coils too (which you're definitely not going to get with a voltmeter on AC). As a 'poor man's scope' I've even checked ABS sensors and all sorts using one.
Now yes, as anybody who does any diagnostic work can tell you, occasionally of course you're interested in far more than simply the peak magnitude of the positive voltage of a 'crank sensor' pick up etc's output. Bad pattern, wired back to front, cam crank correlations etc etc. But for side of the road "why won't it run?" diagnoses on bikes and scooters, often just knowing the peak voltage of the pick up (and in Dan's case here from the Capacitor Charging Coil also) can find your problem.
Cheers, Ben
(B.R.Repair Services)
An oscilloscope gives the peak to peak voltage the dvm gives rms voltage so will always read lower whatever the ac source.
Hi Ben thanks for your great comment. I guess there are quite alot of kids working on their scooters and at least they have something to work with. I guess most have access to a multimeter.
Great tip btw😁👍
Damn you Dan. I spent an hour looking for the obd2 port. Then I watched the video in full. Great vidio as usual.
🤣🤣👍
Very helpful Dan, thanks so much. I'm glad you checked the kill switch as a lot of the time these can be a no start if they have a kick stand safety switch on them. Cheers
I was wondering about the purpose and implementation of the kill switch feature. Thanks.
You are right!
Fixing vehicles others have failed to gives an immense sense of job satisfaction.
It does and i really enjoyed this one
Dan- Hello customer, we fixed your scooter. The invoice price for the Diagnose Dan enhanced diagnostics, parts and labor is $1250.
Customer- But I only paid $1000 for the scooter when it was brand new.
In all seriousness, it is nice to see that you will troubleshoot/fix anything with an engine. Great video describing the ignition components and in-depth diagnosis.
I'm actually not getting paid for this job, just helping someone out😊
We fixed this one together on my lunch break in San Francisco. Glad I was able to help.
Thanks for the help, sorry you had to work during your lunch break 😂
15:44 its a regulator/rectifier. the rectifier turns the AC to DC, the regulator ensures the voltage doesnt go above a certain limit, around 14.5V
Thats right
Hello, Dan. I always wanted to know how the scooters generate their power. I have learned something new today thanks to you. Good fix!
Thats great to hear
You're my hero ❤. Actually am working on a sym jet4 gy6 engine and it has the same symptoms. I took everything apart to restore it and thanks a lot for the help. ❤❤❤❤
Thats great!!! Its almost exactly the same as this one
I'm always remembering , that DiagnoseDan fixed it Again🌠☄️
😁😁👍👍💪
Thanks Dan, my XL250 has no spark, Dan to the rescue again 💪
🤣🤣👍
just pushing the videos out! awesome!
Thank you 😊
Awesome Dan just proves you're the real deal, thank you again for your videos 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you
Loved the video, always curious to see the inner workings of these!
Thats great to hear
Variety is the spice of life !! Great video Dan.
Something different for a change!
I have a little quad with this same engine.. It was the CDI box for me. I bought a random one online for five dollars and it actually worked, no issues; which is funny, because that thing sat in my backyard for like 10 years before I ever tried to fix it. :) .. I had several other bikes and quads so it was not something I cared about. It's interesting that all these chinese engines are the same across all the different brand names.
$5 is a bargain!!
Dan, It is always Interesting and Keeps me exited to watch you videos even what ever kind of Automobilities you diagnose and share with us. We always learn Logical and Detailed explanations. I am greatfull to watch all of your videos❤❤❤
Thank you
What a coincidence.
I’m working on a scooter but mine😅 is a compression problem thanks, Dan
I LOVED the video Dan - always good to see some 2 wheel fixes! Plus, really liked you showing us less well equipped DIY types how to use more basic tools like the multimeter and test light to diagnose problems. More please!!
Thanks!!!
Fantastic video mate. No one else would have gone to this trouble to explain and repair. Is it possible for you to tell us approximately how much was the Stater and how much was the CDI box?
A stator and a cdi are about €30 each
You are my top watch on RUclips.
Thanks thats great!!
Hi Dan, loved the video and the theory lesson, many thanks from UK.
Thank you
as always an excellent diagnosis Dan!
Thank you
it's chinese alright but that engine it's an old honda engine used in present days and I do recognize the buttons are Piaggio, a mix of all brands. like a Lamborghini. always learning with you Dan!
It's a Chinese copy of a Honda, I wonder if putting in genuine Honda parts would make it more reliable.
Yes its a Honda copy, smart in a way because Honda makes awsome engines
Many thanks. I always enjoy the variety so please keep them coming. Given the high Dutch take-up of EVs, we may even see a Tesla in soon.
If something interesting comes into my shop i surely film it!
Happy to see you do a scooter, I hope to see do a boat or something some day.
I was just thinking about a boat!
Excellent video. Helped me troubleshoot a Kymco Mongoose 70 ATV.
Nice change Dan, well done, stay safe.
Thank you
Thanks for the detailed explanation!
Its a pleasure
Thank you for this informative video.
Fucking A Thanks My Dad Mechanic Found Out It Was The Cord For My Spark Plug Because Everything Work's But I'm Still Going 2 Buy A Stator Soon But Love Ur Videos And I'm About 2 Be A New Subscriber 1-13030.
Fair play to you for not holding plug the second time round. 😂😂
We would get a laugh 😂.Good work
🤣🤣👍
Great video. Had to do the same on my son's scooter.
Father duty😉
hi Dan a scooter can be a problem so you have to go thought it thanks for the video
Nice video, I learned something new today.
Thats great
You do a great work in your garage, With your knowledge and experience and the way you approach problems, you should actually train the new generation. Do you ever have interns in the company?
Every now and then i teach a day at a local automotive school
that is amazing@@Diagnosedan
That was a nice clean diagnosis. I'm surprised you didn't measure the stator resistances before removing it, just in case there was a wiring fault.
I was wondering the same. It's always interesting to know the failure mode.
There are some different stator types out there. I wanted to keep it simple
This a great video it was my stater coil
This is a very useful video since it more or less applies to all simple 1-cylinder engines in case of a crank no-start. It is good to know the chain of parts involved so one can check them one by one to find the root cause and replace that part. 😊
Most scooters/ motorcycles/ atv's have a very similar system
Cars, scooters, e bikes even toy cars are always fun and informative to watch on your channel. Just keep bringing us those quality videos.
Thats good to hear, thanks for your nice comment
You took a lot of time to get those parts together and explain their functions! I misdiagnosed an ATV years ago because I didn't know what the stator voltages were supposed to be. I was pressured into doing the diagnosis, and told the owner my best guess was that the CDI box had failed, but I was wrong. It was the stator in that case, also. This was in the days before the internet existed and data could be found outside of a manufacturer's manual. That sort of diagnosing is not very enjoyable!
Thats why its important to do some research before you start a diagnosis. But you are right, in my young days information was hard to find. These days you can find almost anything on the internet
Another great video, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more motorcycles, nice one Dan 👍🏼👍🏼
I wasnt sure if you guys would want to see this
i was just given a 2005 CF Moto freedom 250 with 1600 mi. which ive learned is a Honda Helix clone. its been setting since 2010. i replaced fuel tank, filter, and cleaned carb. to my disgust, crank no start and found it has no spark. not knowing a thing about the scooter i am looking for any help/diagnosis for this. i havent checked yet to see if the ignition system is similar to your video. it is a very WELL taught video and i thank you for that.
Its proberbly quite similar
Thanks Dan. A few Honda trikes with no spark. Checking them this week. Great content as always!!!
Nice!!
Nice video Dan
I'm a motorcycle mechanic, and in my experience on scooters, it's very common for the stator to fail. I usually test this first especially on Chinese and Italian scooters. Very well explained diagnosis procedures, and how the system works. Your skills would be very useful as a motorcycle technician. Maybe you should branch out😂
I dont work on 2 wheelers very often, but i actually enjoyed this case alot
video was awesome bro, thanks so much!
I have a Buddy 125 that I ride all the time. Last year I had the same problem. It went bad gradually. It was the stator. I should have used my Snap On Scope to diagnose it. But I hadn’t watched enough DD to lead me in the right direction. I now carry all three parts in my scooter tool kit. As well as a new drive belt. I have ridden as far as 50 miles from my home/shop. Very cool vid. I like the windshield. Do u ride that one?
No i don't, but i love to drive a scooter in the summer. Unfortunately summers are short where i live. Lots of rainy and cold months, not the best to ride a scooter
Great Dan. Love this one We'll done
Great!
Excellent.
As usual great diagnosis process with the added bonus of how a scooter ignition works.
👑👑👑
Thank you
Had a Cushman scooter and learned about magnetos and spark the hard way...was 15....went on to become an electrical engineer. Fascinating. Your channel challenges are highly anticipated.
Thats a great career, well done!
Nice to see a scooter!
Something different 😊
Grate job again. I have only one question. How nany parts do you have laying around in your shop? :-D
We have a whole 2nd floor full of stuff. 😊
A guy's wife says he is a crank no start with no spark.
His name is Scooter.
Diagnosed as: She's too Fat.
🤣🤣
It would be interesting to do a resistance check on the stator ignition windings especially after we saw no waveform..
Next time 😉
Great diagnosis. From my experience, if you are firing the parts canon at something the stator goes bad about ten times as often as the CDI box. Maybe even more than that. It's been a while since I ran across a bad CDI box.
I dont work on 2 wheelers as much as on cars, but i had quite a few cdi's going bad. Maybe its just coincidence
I always like your explanations. Keep up the good work!
Thank you
Nice Fix Dan
Thanks!
Excellent explanation as always Dan, but allow me to make a correction, at minute 4:15 when you explain the operation of the ignition coil you mention that when it is energized it produces the spark when in fact it is the opposite. The ignition coil produces high voltage (spark) when it is de-energized.
You are right
A seemingly simple job by comparison but... Can be a problem to those with less diagnostic knowledge.
Once again your diagnostic skill, fault finding and explanation still amazes me.
Good video work also.
Thank you very much 😊
Nice video well done
Спасибо 🤝
😁👍
It would be cool if you did a resistance measurement on both of them.....😊
Next time😉
I have a wangye gy6 wy125t-108 125cc and it doesn't seem to have a CDI. ?
Again I'm amazed Dan, that is an excellent presentation, I've learnt something new about 2-wheelers, thanks a million
Glad you liked it
Enjoyed this, something a bit different thanks
Wasnt sure if you guys would like to see this
Very interesting and educational. Thanks, Dan! I always appreciate your videos.
Thank you!
Excellent. Tell me Dan. You really seem to enjoy your job. Is that true. Just wondering
Its a great job, the only thing i dont enjoy is time pressure! There is always another job waiting🫣
@@Diagnosedan I know the feeling………Every customer thinks that they are the only ones
diagnosedan top
Man o man I hope I can fix this 4 wheeler with a gy6 engine. Had to replace wiring harness and after replacing it I’m not getting spark. Motor cranks just no spark. It had spark before replacing everything so idk what I did wrong.
Not sure how to approach this without a multimeter…lol.
I had a Mercedes before. It had about 1000 miles when I got stranded on the road. The engine would crank but not start. The Mercedes dealer techs spent 3 days trying to figure it out.(fortunately, under warranty) Later, they admitted that the overlooked the most obvious cause. There was zero fuel in the gas tank, which was the reason for the engine not starting. However, the fuel gauge needle was at full and the low fuel warning light did not come on. Apparently some sensor inside the gas tank was defective and stuck, so it was falsely reporting a full gas tank. They added a couple of gallons of gas and the engine started right up! (after installing a new sensor, of course) :)
So you were driving along with a full tank of gas for how long? You are the main part of the problem. Did you notice? (of course not).
Root cause analysis? How long did the driver think the fuel might last?
@@connclissmann6514 I only drove that car about once a week, so I didn't pay much attention. (yes, my bad) :)
@@stevekelly5166 I only drove that car about once a week back then. When that "incident' happened, I think the car sat in the garage for about a month. That was why I no longer kept a car when living in the city. :)
You had no idea yourself it would run forever without using any fuel?
Really enjoyed the 2 wheeled content Dan - keep them coming! 🙂
Glad you liked it, i wasnt sure if you guys would like to see it
Great video, Dan! Don't mind the odd scooter or motorcycle diagnosis video now and then! ;)
Thats good to hear i wasnt sure if you guys would like to see it
Very great explained, I like your all videos you are teaching so clearly, appreciate
Excellent video, I'm going through this right now with my genuine roughhouse. It's just a coincidence that I put a big bore kit on (2nd one , first wore out) and it was feeling week on its 1st test run on the way home it started cutting in and out almost violently, after determining it wasn't mechanical I realized my spark was the culprit. Now I have no spark, changed the coil, nope waiting for a new cdi, I don't think I'll be able to use a meter as good as you but I will check cdi for power and ground thank you.
you are a professional at diagnostic 💖
Thank you
I have a DC Scooter, Kymco agility 50 4T. And the cables were different than you explained. Just wondering if it could be the Battery or the CDI box that is faulty. It has no spark and i have gone nowhere with the diagnosis
I have no spark on my atv, lifan cg200, ordered a new wiring loom with everything. Followed your instructions, black and red only 35v ac and pickup like zero..... checked the gap between the pickup and the magneto...everything is good but still nothing.
Hey Dan, I think from the way it sounds , the left handle may be the cause for the no start. 😂😂
😂😂
Great explanation Dan - really enjoyed watching you as you moved forward on your diagnosis. And, I must admit that I didn't know that the Stator was called a stator due to it being stationary. :-) Thanks Dan.
Now you know
So how does a stator fail? is it dead short due to insulation failure? as i would have guessed you would have seen an open circuit from the harness, or am i missing something with the pickup ? thought this was for trigger point only so assume this as a hall sensor has no hand in the lack of voltage supply to the cdi.? genuine question to learn from this.
👍
Always like a Diagnose Dan video
Brilliant explanation! Recently I worked in a go-kart with the same problem and after checking the CDI in a similar way with a multimeter, the culprit was the spark plug pipe
Kart, atv,scooter, motorcycles all very similar
What if I check the ground on the kill switch and it's giving a feint light compared to the frame?
GOOD JOB thanks looking for info but we know the problem with ours everything is new just not the CDI and the wiring harness, it has been tampered with by the previous owner himself soldered 1 wire to 5 wires, for example, as I say asking for problems the solution new CDI and wiring harness straig is without self-soldered interruptions. just look for the problem
hi Dan you didnt state what the voltage should be to the ignition coil positive is it battery voltage or stator output voltage ?
Dan can fix almost everything except......(fill in the blank :))