If a honorbound stat will get added to the game, this theory would even make more sense. Like when he doesn't score a kill with it, the nature gods punish him for not committing to being a bear and so on.
It is really strange that the health recovered from the Warrior's Spirit is outclassed by small health kits. You know, those things that Scouts can drop for free by having the Candy Cane equipped. EDIT: Because no-one seems to know how to read things, I'm making an addendum here. This _isn't_ about the Candy Cane. It really doesn't matter whether it's good, bad, situational, or whatever. The point was Heavy recovers 60 HP from small health kits, on a weapon that gives you a damage vulnerability and 50 HP from kills. The healing you get from taking an enemy down with these things is 10 HP short of the worst healing option available on any given map, which is both sad and funny.
I misread this the first time lol. Yeah this part kinda sucks, and the scout doesn’t even need to use the melee and is super hard to hit with much less vulnerability. (Still deadly to the scout is they meet and explosive.)
candy cane has two subclasses for scout. ScoutKnight, and Discount Medic. i've made the scoutknight comment a lot so i'll let you find that on other melee related videos. the Discount Medic is scout that runs up to injured teammates and killbinds dropping a healthpack.
I think it's impressive that there's an ENTIRE WEAPON SET that we can consider bad. Not even Pyro's grordbort set can manage that, since the Phlog is at least "good".
the brass beast is a sorely underrated piece of kit for defense. however i have no fucking clue why it's paired with the steak and warriors spirit. they all have terrible synergy with eachother
That Pyro set has: -Phlogistinator -Manmelter, helps the damn Phlog charge immensely if it can crit and deals with the "no airblast" shit. -Third Degree, a straight upgrade from the Fire Axe. Like, this set is REALLY not bad at all.
@@SyRose901 The "Third Degree" has a hidden downside: When equipped, the Pyro will experience a 35% reduction in peripheral vision upon seeing a medic healing someone. This further increases to a 70% reduction if the Pyro chooses to engage.
@@SyRose901 The Third Degree is only a straight upgrade in an _extremely_ niche situation that Pyro really shouldn't be using his melee in, anyways; if you're in breathing room of a combo, you should probably be bathing them in flames or airblasting them apart to help your team take them down, not taking out what is essentially a stock reskin with a gimmick stat. Not to mention pretty much _every_ Pyro melee but the Volcano Fragment and Hot Hand has a far more useful upside, anyways; why would I want a stock reskin with a gimmick that's hard to use well...when I can just use the Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Neon Annihilator or Homewrecker, weapons with very useful gimmicks that provide genuine upsides for the Pyro or his team in various capacities? If I'm attacking, I'm using the Powerjack for the mobility buff, the Back Scratcher for the extra damage and bonus healing from health kits, or the Axtinguisher for the combo with my flamethrowers. If I'm defending, then obviously I'm gonna use the Homewrecker to help my Engineers deal with Spies trying to sap their buildings. If I'm on a map with loads of water, then the Neon Annihilator is pretty useful for taking advantage of enemies coming out of that water and gives me a nice damage option if I'm using a flare gun. The Third Degree's upside of "hits both parts of a Medic beam" comes up short in comparison, especially since...well, if you're breathing up the neck of a Medic to take advantage of that, you're probably right around his team, who will generally not take kindly to you waltzing up to their Medic. In that situation, you'd be better off spraying as many people as you can before dying to soften the enemy up for a push. And the Manmelter is _severely_ outclassed as a Phlog secondary by the Scorch Shot, which builds Mmph even faster with much less effort on the Pyro's end; that's kinda the reason Phlog-Scorch Shot is one of the most reviled combos in TF2. If you constantly have crits, the lack of airblast isn't as problematic since you'll probably melt whatever doesn't kill you first.
6:01 The fact that there are three people in this clip alone who dominated you prior is probably more of an indicator of how much warrior's spirit+steak sandvich erases the heavy's survivability than saying such through words could ever give.
I think what could help it is if the BSS vulnerability didn't stack with it. That way with the warriors spirit it's only downside would be the melee lock, since it already has a vulnerability penalty. It's already part of the same set, so some synergy would make sense.
it used to not stack, at least not as bad. In the distant past, the Warrior's Spirit downside was that it removed 50 MAX HP, but the heal effect was I think 15 per hit rather than 50 per kill. So you had better survivability overall due to the damage vuln not stacking, and you have better short term survivability even if you don't get the kill. It still wasn't good, but it wasn't absolutely awful like it is now.
vulnerability on the warriors spirit is a fair downside, but on the steak its fucking stupid. the whole point of giving heavy a melee subclass is to have a *tanky* warrior who uses their high health pool to *tank* damage while they close the distance. so why does the steak have a damage vulnerability effect when its already hard enough for heavy to catch up to his targets? not healing and being locked to melee is a downside enough. the warriors spirit could use like, a 5% damage buff and/or a 5% vulnerability buff, just to meet those damage thresholds. that would take it a significant step up. or rather, maybe also make the health on kill like 100 so it isn't pathetically small.
Tbh even without a downside it would still be a bad weapon, any melee weapon that doesn't offer an instant close range kill with a near 100% reliability is inferior when you have a minigun that has near instant kill at close range and some range, if the melee traded out the medium distance in exchange for not having a windup time, which would be fair
Back then, the WS had a -20 hp instead of a 30% damage vulnerability, you were weaker if you played Heavy normally, but stronger if you decided to melee people, since -20 hp is far less punishing than a 30% damage vulnerability.
@@uberd3323 That's what I love about TF2. The "bad" weapons are still fun to use in niche ways. I can't punch people and fingergun them to death as Santa in COD or Overwatch.
The brass beast also doesn't work well with these weapons either since a bb heavy wants a reliable backup secondary like the shotgun or failing that the fists of steel to let heavy fall back more easily. The buffalo steak and warriors spirit are probably the worst weapons to pair with the brass beast which makes the entire hibernating bear set so badly thought out.
I definitely think that a lunge attack for the Warrior's Spirit could really help the weapon since one of the problems with Melee Heavy is that you're too slow to approch and hit anyone. That, or an idea I had a few years ago would be to double the effects of lunchbox items where the Sandvich gives you overheal, Dalokohs Bar gives you 200 health plus 100 extra health and the Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives you crits instead of mini-crits while probably having the downside of either less health from outside sources (e.g. Medics, Health Packs) or honorbounding you like the Half-Zatoichi.
Youd probably need to double make the honorbound damage like 80 to make it work, since the normal 50 isnt nearly as significant for heavy as it is for soldier and demo
Honourbound is a great idea, for the same percentage of course (-25%) so 75 health. This would even provide another use for it too, as another way for heavy to boost uber charge speeds that isnt the Fists of steel. The buffalo steak needs a ranged damage reduction instead of more vulnerability to all damage, as well a duration increase on melee kill
@@Buster_real That would be fuckin dope. It'd probably have a FoS-style damage reduction for most sources, with a downside of it being basically just "You exist to be shot at, and that's it." MAYBE a charge-type alt-fire to make it able to have an active use aside from being made into a super-punching-bag.
But the irony was, the WS also had a -20 HP penalty back then. That meant that you’d likely still die from a critical sniper rifle headshot due to having less health. It rarely affected gameplay at all!
The holiday punch is actually useful for a lot more than just being a meme for hoovies. They're unironically kind of broken because of their stun mechanic, which even works on ubers. You may note that isn't much different from gen-1 sandman beyond the worse range and (sometimes) no damage.
I mean, sure, it can stop ubers, but for that to work you have to be lucky and get a random crit in *melee* range of a medic and his ubered mann, or, you have to sneak up behind them, while playing the slowest and largest class in the game, while no one spots you.
“It’s a perfectly serviceable sidegrade to the stock fists.” If I was the warriors spirit that would hurt more then just saying I’m one of the worst weapons in the game.
(Edit: yooo, he noticed me) I really miss timestamps, so I made them: 0:00 Merch 0:26 Intro 2:01 Stats breakdown 4:12 Melee damage thresholds 5:45 Damage vulnerability 6:24 With the Buffalo Steak 7:27 Vs other Heavy melees 8:03 Mannpower 10:38 Normal Heavy gameplay 11:46 When the Warrior Spirit is worth using 13:09 Medieval Mode 14:30 MvM 16:12 Conclusion and potential rebalances 18:40 Outro
@@aleflippy1997 It doesn't drain fast enough to be a problem in most melee fights, which usually end in less than three seconds. Either you land two hits to kill (or a crit), or you're dead anyway. The GRU makes you fast enough to feasibly avoid attacks though, or run away if you decide it isn't worth it. Also the health comes back just as fast the moment you find a safe spot to switch back to your minigun or sandwich.
I’m so glad you covered this weapon! I run Brass Beast, Buffalo Steak, and Warrior’s Spirit at all times on heavy. It makes his rollout or sneak attacks amazing, and in open combat the brass beast just shreds people. Do I die, all the time? Yes. Is it super fun to annihilate people? Also yes.
the way i would tweak the hibernating bear set BB: make the damage resistance non conditional BSS:flip the vulnerablility into a resistance WS:same as the BSS, and make it switch in 2x slower NOW YOU HAVE A SET THAT AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MAKES SENSE TO USE TOGETHER AND A MAIN THEME THROUGHOUT THE WEAPONS SLOW TO START UP BUT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP AFTERWARDS
If non-conditional means always active, then it would be broken, because if someone is attacking a brass beast heavy while the heavy isn't currently holding it, they won't know why 20% of their damage just got stuffed up.
@@-RandomStranger- actually it would only be about 470 when i said the BB's damage resist should be "non conditional" i meant that it would be active no matter what, *so long as the weapon is out* , not just a passive 20% damage reduction at all times
Idea for a rebalance: every kill adds a whip speed boost like the KGB and for the same duration, will buff the entire hibernating bear set, also let it stack
Letting it stack will be a little insane, because with the Steak you can turn into a soldier (50% damage vulnerability gives you 200 effective health) who runs around the same speed as a demoman and maybe even faster if you get lucky, and deals 100 damage per swing
I find it hilarious that so many weapons that are considered absolutely terrible in regular gameplay are beyond amazing for MvM. Anyway, I think what heavy really needs to become a melee monster is a primary "weapon" that's just battle armor. It would trade his ranged firepower for greater health and speed.
A good option for a non MInigun primary for heavy would be shield, give him a nice big team colored shield that drastically increases his health, and decreases charge time for lunchbox items, with maybe a small charge, only being far enough to close a short distance, not enough to make map movement fast nor short enough recharge to make it so your heavy is just always using it
It would be interesting for you to quickly cover major patch changes when talking about design choices. The weapon was totally fine until the Tough Break update which made it unusable. December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update) Changed attributes: Now heals 50 health on kill. (from +10 health on hit) Damage received and dealt increased by 30%. Removed health penalty. (-20 health)
I'm certain that when they made the stats for it, the thought process was "He does 30% more damage, so it's only fair he TAKES 30% more damage. Throw the 50 HP boost on for lols" without actually thinking of how heavy plays.
I still don't get the mentality behind the idea of giving the slowest class in the game a melee alternative that makes them more vulnerable to damage while giving them the smallest speed boost when demoman was given an infinitely more mobile alternative and damage output so much so that a heavy with the best possible melee option dueling a demoknight can still easily lose.
Demoknigt struggles with heavys, unless they have the fos or something. You are looking at 3 hits with the skullcutter if you guarantee the first hit is a crit.
I just thought of an interesting rework for the Warrior Spirit. What if they removed one of its bonuses to instead make it grant melee resistance whilst equipped (whilst making the current vulnerability only apply to non-melee damage), effectively making it the reverse of the Fists of Steel?
@@CyrogenicNation I was mostly saying replace a bonus simply because it may be OP in medieval mode. Personally, I don't care about Medieval mode much, but I know some people do.
@@DrBlueHigh To be fair, you probably shouldn't be running at people with Heavy melee to begin with. If anything, it'd help for if someone jumps you with their own melee (mind you, the Minigun would likely still be a better option).
The only change I'd make to the warrior's spirit would be to turn the 30% general damage vulnerability to a 30% bullet damage vulnerability, it would still be outclassed by other melees most of the time, but it would still certainly be usable. It would also have the effect of making it become a sort of opposite to the fists of steel.
I like the buff ideas of the custom server. Honor bound makes a lot more sense with a steak that won’t let you unequip it. The weaknesses compliment each other instead of exaggerate each other.
My thoughts about how to buff heavy melee’s in general would be to give ‘em a sort of knock out ability. Warrior’s spirit would temporarily be able to flip it’s vulnerability to resistance.
Ideas that come to mind for the Steak: remove the hidden stat for damage vulnerability. You got no gun. That's a hard nerf. Ideas for the Spirit: Why not just reduce the swing speed? Make it so the Spirit is more consistent than KGB but less burst damage.
Idea for lunging attack seems enticing, although i would place something like "if you miss your lunge, THEN the vulnerability applies." So at least spirit now allows you to whip out your BEAR ARMS without instantly regretting it.
can't remove damage vulnerability because it makes it too strong to use in a gamemode that has a different style of gameplay than the mode that the majority plays
I'd say something to consider is to give it health on damage instead of health on kill (about a health per two damage), remove the damage vulnerability, and have the heavy marked for death while eating the steak (the steaks horrible downsides gone as well to counteract that). Sacrifice health during downtime in exchange for health in the fight, Blackbox style (other problems including covering the distance needed to attack fleeing enemies be altered if need be).
You know heal on hit and no vulnerability is basically just it pre nerf. It healed on hit and reduced max by 20. (Not in the snarky way, just like, they really borked it.)
I once had a dream where the Warrior’s Spirit was buffed so the health on kill applied to all weapons. No idea how broken that would be, but it definitely feels like something Valve would do
my idea to change it would be to change its damage vulnerability from 30% to 15% and replace it's health on kill with a 50% health steal, then change the buffalo steak's 20% damage vulnerability to a 20% resistance and boost its movement speed buff to 50%.
I love how I got the Warrior’s Spirit the same day this video comes out because I was playing Medieval Mode. I managed to go on a decent killstreak before Huntsman Snipers killed me
Once I was in a game where there was a warrior spirit heavy, he kept appearing out of nowhere in the most obscure places and owning all the scout somehow
The thing about the Eviction Notice is that you can actually travel further with it than with the GRU and at less max health lost, so while it's worse than the GRU at escaping situations or retreating (especially if you're already low-health with either melee), it's so much better as a general mobility tool. On top of that, it letting you approach enemies fast-ish but with more health than the GRU means you can do similar things to the Powerjack where you can rush in, close the distance and then abuse it with a Shotgun; the Panic Attack is very noticeable in this case with its higher threshold-breaking damage at close range and much quicker switch speed. IMO, the GRU is Heavy's Escape Plan while the Eviction Notice is his Powerjack.
Equalizer: Let's give Soldier a weapon that gets stronger the closer he is to death. It'll be crap, but he'll have one, maybe two ways to use it in a pub-y kind of way. It'll have a taunt kill at least too. A good one, AOE. Warrior's Spirit: Let's give the slowest class with no real good ways to engage anyone in melee a melee weapon that makes all ranged options deal 30% more damage to them. And a secondary item that takes away his healing for mini-crits, but makes him take even MORE damage, and a small speed boost that might help him hit someone once before taking a point blank shotgun to the face. That makes sense. Oh and even with the Mini-Crits, still take two shots to drop any class short of a Kunai/Earner spy. THAT MAKES SENSE FOR REMOVING ALL GOOD OPTIONS OFF HEAVY.
Here's an idea: Fix all Heavy melees damage-wise. All of them. He can already shred you at close range, who cares? I say make it tied to the gimmick of punching left or right. The hands now have the same base stats as the bat, but the right hand as an extra .3 second delay on its attack, which is visible in its animation-effectively giving it the normal .8 second interval and deals normal damage. Each fist has a separate attack interval, letting you chain left and right punches together. The right fist is easier to see coming and dodge, it's 18 frames for you fighting game folk, plus not only will Heavy make a little audio cue when he's about to punch with right, but if you got hit by a left punch, you can react to the pain sound and dodge the right punch. That being said, both hitting is devastating. This means it only takes a little over half a second for a heavy to kill light classes with melee if he uses a left-right-left. At max melee range (48 hu), the minigun still kills a lot faster (.315 seconds), but the fists now do kill faster at that range than the shotgun. You'll be able to throw out 4 punches in .8 seconds, dealing 165 damage, killing Medics in the same time it would take a normal melee to kill a light class. In one second, you'll throw out 5, dealing 235 damage. This is half the damage than the minigun can do at that range, and at this point hitting them all is less reliable. Still, the damage is a 58 difference to two shotgun blasts at this rate. This massively buffs all melees, to the point where the KGB might need more of a nerf. The Warrior's Spirit at this rate kills a light class in just over .3 seconds, about matching the damage of the minigun. It kills Demos and Pyros in .5 seconds, slower now than the minigun, but still a lot quicker than any other melee. How this would affect every melee would have to be tested, but it wpuld let Heavy do something with melee and make the Warrior's Spirit a decent weapon.
After playing some MVM with modded upgrades, I thought of some stats that would make The Warrior's Spirit an absolutely wacky Heavy melee choice. Those stats are: +25% Faster move speed on wearer (this is passive, not just when the weapon is out), +40% Greater jump height on wearer, +50% Knockback resistance (Heavy already has pretty high knockback resistance built-in, but with the added knockback resistance, airblast, and Direct Hit rockets won't push him around as much). This would come at a cost of halving The Heavy's minigun ammo to 100 (and maybe halving shotgun ammo to 16, maybe), and dropping The Heavy's base health to 200, and The Heavy would receive 50-75% less ammo from ammo boxes and dispensers, making the choice of pulling out the minigun much more important regarding timing. These stats would sort of let The Heavy tap into the more animalistic side of the weapon, with higher jumps and faster movement and more damage (assuming keeping the 30% damage bonus after all this is a remotely good idea), and would be a pretty interesting melee weapon for Fat Scout, while making the reduced minigun ammo more difficult to sustain in situations where you have to commit to using it, as well as the greatly reduced health, lowering Heavy's maximum overheal and sustainability, making him sort of a glass cannon, but the passive faster move speed and jump height does make things more interesting when roaming the map for flanks, or when getting into position. Still not the best at coming up with balance changes, so, I could once again be talking nonsense.
The only instance I found where this weapon actually spanks is in small cp maps with a soldier running banner + whipping you. That’s it. But if you happen to find yourself in this specific scenario, it definitely really very works.
makes sense that the hibernating bear set only works in mvm, you’re a big grizzly man and you’re tearing down the robots who want to take over the world
16:56 Fish... bears don't pounce on things, they chase them down, pouncing is a cat thing... I 100% agree with the Honor Bound mechanic, fits with the theme perfectly
I think the claws and the steak are supposed to partially neutralize his main strength, his health pool, in order to boost his speed and melee in order to shake up his main playstyle. The problem is that standard melee is basically useless for every class with a plural number of eyes.
17:59 THIS IS SO SMART CUZ IT'S LIKE A BEAR NOT BEING ABLE TO HIBERNATE UNTIL IT GETS A KILL IT MAKES HEAVY INTO AN ACTUAL HIBERNATING BEAR OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD
Here's an idea: make it so either the steak or the Warrior's Spirit grants knockback immunity. Make it so that the melee side of things is facilitated, while also providing some gimmick that works outside of just melee combat
the WS had a broken base concept from the beginning my idea, as far too often I wrote in these comments, is a full on rework; a "bleed on hit" and a "minicrit on bleeding enemies" for a damage reduction from these, and the negativ eeffect unchanged (or somewhat reduced the damage vulnerability)and a reduced healing, but from every enemy that you caused bleed on on death. heavy doesn't really shine for support or status, but a bleeding enemy more often than not get surprised by the amount of damage they slowly suffer and also the removed knockback on the steack. THAT?S EXACTLY what the steack needs
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sun-on-a-Stick](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2nNjL5XCdeI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sun-on-a-Stick](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Eviction Notice](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WqZ3yWAezdY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Buffalo Steak Sandvich](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/seX-02uTtoE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why [TF2] has (Almost) Perfect Melee Weapons](/img/1.gif)
The warrior's spirit:
Heavy ripped a bears hands off and was cursed by the nature gods for it.
Of all the bears out there, he picked the one that sucked at being a bear
Mononoke style
If a honorbound stat will get added to the game, this theory would even make more sense. Like when he doesn't score a kill with it, the nature gods punish him for not committing to being a bear and so on.
@@davidhong1934 Well a good bear might kill him
I think he literally does this in the comics lol.
It is really strange that the health recovered from the Warrior's Spirit is outclassed by small health kits. You know, those things that Scouts can drop for free by having the Candy Cane equipped.
EDIT: Because no-one seems to know how to read things, I'm making an addendum here. This _isn't_ about the Candy Cane. It really doesn't matter whether it's good, bad, situational, or whatever. The point was Heavy recovers 60 HP from small health kits, on a weapon that gives you a damage vulnerability and 50 HP from kills.
The healing you get from taking an enemy down with these things is 10 HP short of the worst healing option available on any given map, which is both sad and funny.
I misread this the first time lol. Yeah this part kinda sucks, and the scout doesn’t even need to use the melee and is super hard to hit with much less vulnerability. (Still deadly to the scout is they meet and explosive.)
ok time traveler
"For free" is pretty far from objective truth, you get evaporated by explosive classes.
But yeah, its still awful.
pyros that use the powerjack: first time?
candy cane has two subclasses for scout. ScoutKnight, and Discount Medic. i've made the scoutknight comment a lot so i'll let you find that on other melee related videos. the Discount Medic is scout that runs up to injured teammates and killbinds dropping a healthpack.
I think it's impressive that there's an ENTIRE WEAPON SET that we can consider bad. Not even Pyro's grordbort set can manage that, since the Phlog is at least "good".
the brass beast is a sorely underrated piece of kit for defense. however i have no fucking clue why it's paired with the steak and warriors spirit. they all have terrible synergy with eachother
@@sweetypuss
Apparently, the set used to have 5% crit resistance
_(Source: TF2 wiki entry on "Hibernating Bear)_
That Pyro set has:
-Phlogistinator
-Manmelter, helps the damn Phlog charge immensely if it can crit and deals with the "no airblast" shit.
-Third Degree, a straight upgrade from the Fire Axe.
Like, this set is REALLY not bad at all.
@@SyRose901
The "Third Degree" has a hidden downside:
When equipped, the Pyro will experience a 35% reduction in peripheral vision upon seeing a medic healing someone. This further increases to a 70% reduction if the Pyro chooses to engage.
@@SyRose901 The Third Degree is only a straight upgrade in an _extremely_ niche situation that Pyro really shouldn't be using his melee in, anyways; if you're in breathing room of a combo, you should probably be bathing them in flames or airblasting them apart to help your team take them down, not taking out what is essentially a stock reskin with a gimmick stat.
Not to mention pretty much _every_ Pyro melee but the Volcano Fragment and Hot Hand has a far more useful upside, anyways; why would I want a stock reskin with a gimmick that's hard to use well...when I can just use the Axtinguisher, Powerjack, Back Scratcher, Neon Annihilator or Homewrecker, weapons with very useful gimmicks that provide genuine upsides for the Pyro or his team in various capacities?
If I'm attacking, I'm using the Powerjack for the mobility buff, the Back Scratcher for the extra damage and bonus healing from health kits, or the Axtinguisher for the combo with my flamethrowers. If I'm defending, then obviously I'm gonna use the Homewrecker to help my Engineers deal with Spies trying to sap their buildings. If I'm on a map with loads of water, then the Neon Annihilator is pretty useful for taking advantage of enemies coming out of that water and gives me a nice damage option if I'm using a flare gun.
The Third Degree's upside of "hits both parts of a Medic beam" comes up short in comparison, especially since...well, if you're breathing up the neck of a Medic to take advantage of that, you're probably right around his team, who will generally not take kindly to you waltzing up to their Medic. In that situation, you'd be better off spraying as many people as you can before dying to soften the enemy up for a push.
And the Manmelter is _severely_ outclassed as a Phlog secondary by the Scorch Shot, which builds Mmph even faster with much less effort on the Pyro's end; that's kinda the reason Phlog-Scorch Shot is one of the most reviled combos in TF2. If you constantly have crits, the lack of airblast isn't as problematic since you'll probably melt whatever doesn't kill you first.
Namedrop caught me off guard lmao, great content as always my man.
Why is no one replying?
Yo mvm banana daddy
@@JansonisDEADyeah, not sure
6:01 The fact that there are three people in this clip alone who dominated you prior is probably more of an indicator of how much warrior's spirit+steak sandvich erases the heavy's survivability than saying such through words could ever give.
Hello bright.
I think what could help it is if the BSS vulnerability didn't stack with it. That way with the warriors spirit it's only downside would be the melee lock, since it already has a vulnerability penalty. It's already part of the same set, so some synergy would make sense.
it used to not stack, at least not as bad. In the distant past, the Warrior's Spirit downside was that it removed 50 MAX HP, but the heal effect was I think 15 per hit rather than 50 per kill. So you had better survivability overall due to the damage vuln not stacking, and you have better short term survivability even if you don't get the kill. It still wasn't good, but it wasn't absolutely awful like it is now.
@@__psychobilly it was 20/30 max health lost when using it.
the vulnerability shouldn't exist on it anyway
vulnerability on the warriors spirit is a fair downside, but on the steak its fucking stupid. the whole point of giving heavy a melee subclass is to have a *tanky* warrior who uses their high health pool to *tank* damage while they close the distance.
so why does the steak have a damage vulnerability effect when its already hard enough for heavy to catch up to his targets? not healing and being locked to melee is a downside enough.
the warriors spirit could use like, a 5% damage buff and/or a 5% vulnerability buff, just to meet those damage thresholds. that would take it a significant step up. or rather, maybe also make the health on kill like 100 so it isn't pathetically small.
Tbh even without a downside it would still be a bad weapon, any melee weapon that doesn't offer an instant close range kill with a near 100% reliability is inferior when you have a minigun that has near instant kill at close range and some range, if the melee traded out the medium distance in exchange for not having a windup time, which would be fair
It's almost comical how awful this and the Buffalo Steak are together, given that Valve literally designed them to be used together.
Back then, the WS had a -20 hp instead of a 30% damage vulnerability, you were weaker if you played Heavy normally, but stronger if you decided to melee people, since -20 hp is far less punishing than a 30% damage vulnerability.
@@vivelespatat2670 Tbh,i rather have that health penalty downside instead of this
Its pretty fun though ngl. Even if you’re not super effective, those minicrits hit for a LOT of damage.
@@uberd3323 That's what I love about TF2. The "bad" weapons are still fun to use in niche ways. I can't punch people and fingergun them to death as Santa in COD or Overwatch.
The brass beast also doesn't work well with these weapons either since a bb heavy wants a reliable backup secondary like the shotgun or failing that the fists of steel to let heavy fall back more easily. The buffalo steak and warriors spirit are probably the worst weapons to pair with the brass beast which makes the entire hibernating bear set so badly thought out.
I definitely think that a lunge attack for the Warrior's Spirit could really help the weapon since one of the problems with Melee Heavy is that you're too slow to approch and hit anyone.
That, or an idea I had a few years ago would be to double the effects of lunchbox items where the Sandvich gives you overheal, Dalokohs Bar gives you 200 health plus 100 extra health and the Buffalo Steak Sandvich gives you crits instead of mini-crits while probably having the downside of either less health from outside sources (e.g. Medics, Health Packs) or honorbounding you like the Half-Zatoichi.
Youd probably need to double make the honorbound damage like 80 to make it work, since the normal 50 isnt nearly as significant for heavy as it is for soldier and demo
Personally, I'd rather a riot shield item for the minigun slot that's basically just Chargin' Targe.
Honourbound is a great idea, for the same percentage of course (-25%) so 75 health. This would even provide another use for it too, as another way for heavy to boost uber charge speeds that isnt the Fists of steel. The buffalo steak needs a ranged damage reduction instead of more vulnerability to all damage, as well a duration increase on melee kill
@@Buster_real That would be fuckin dope. It'd probably have a FoS-style damage reduction for most sources, with a downside of it being basically just "You exist to be shot at, and that's it." MAYBE a charge-type alt-fire to make it able to have an active use aside from being made into a super-punching-bag.
Why not have a lunge attack on right hooks with any melee under the steak's effects?
Blast from the TF2 past: Back when equipping item sets gave a separate boost, the Hibernating Bear gave +5% critical hit damage resistance.
But the irony was, the WS also had a -20 HP penalty back then. That meant that you’d likely still die from a critical sniper rifle headshot due to having less health. It rarely affected gameplay at all!
Oh,thank God! I am glad that the set where two weapons have massive damage vulnerabilities(which stack) has a tiny crit res
A 5% resistance is so tiny that it's basically fucking useless let's be honest
Pfff like that wouldve helped
Crit damage resistance? And only 5%? USELESS.
Virgin heavy:uses warrior spirit for "extra damage"
Chad heavy:uses warrior spirit because it looks cool
Random guy heavy: uses warrior spirit for health on kill
Crackhead heavy: uses warrior spirit for damage vulnerability
@@cristinagomez3283 I think you mean
masochist heavy: uses warrior spirit for damage vulnerability
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 yes
@@airplanemaniacgaming7877 also:
Hoarder heavy: uses warriors spirit to complete the set
Brad Heavy: Doesn't use the Warrior's Spirit
Thad Heavy: Uses the entire bear kit as a challenge
The holiday punch is actually useful for a lot more than just being a meme for hoovies. They're unironically kind of broken because of their stun mechanic, which even works on ubers. You may note that isn't much different from gen-1 sandman beyond the worse range and (sometimes) no damage.
he notes that in the video
It even works on quick-fix ubers.
It’s a weapon that conceptually could only ever really work on Heavy.
I mean, sure, it can stop ubers, but for that to work you have to be lucky and get a random crit in *melee* range of a medic and his ubered mann, or, you have to sneak up behind them, while playing the slowest and largest class in the game, while no one spots you.
@@davisdf3064 I’m aware. I was saying that the holiday punch as a concept could only ever work as a Heavy weapon.
“It’s a perfectly serviceable sidegrade to the stock fists.” If I was the warriors spirit that would hurt more then just saying I’m one of the worst weapons in the game.
it's still kinda cool.
(Edit: yooo, he noticed me) I really miss timestamps, so I made them:
0:00 Merch
0:26 Intro
2:01 Stats breakdown
4:12 Melee damage thresholds
5:45 Damage vulnerability
6:24 With the Buffalo Steak
7:27 Vs other Heavy melees
8:03 Mannpower
10:38 Normal Heavy gameplay
11:46 When the Warrior Spirit is worth using
13:09 Medieval Mode
14:30 MvM
16:12 Conclusion and potential rebalances
18:40 Outro
I think he got rid of timestamps because people said they used them to skip sponsors, which was kind of shitty of them.
@@nicholasho1595 then I will not skip the sponsor again
no there's timestamps
@@jknifgijdfui Fish added them later
19:42 double telefrag (gotta timestamp that lmao)
I feel like even the G.R.U. is more effective at melee combat than the Warrior's Spirit, damage vulnerability for a slow class is a death certificate.
How are you everywhere
yeah at least u can get closer to the other guy with the GRU. WS is just a plain downgrade
Ah yes, the weapon that drains your health at galeforce ten
@@aleflippy1997 It doesn't drain fast enough to be a problem in most melee fights, which usually end in less than three seconds. Either you land two hits to kill (or a crit), or you're dead anyway. The GRU makes you fast enough to feasibly avoid attacks though, or run away if you decide it isn't worth it. Also the health comes back just as fast the moment you find a safe spot to switch back to your minigun or sandwich.
When you die to the Warriors Spirit, you don’t deserve to be mad about it. That Heavy just outplayed you, and you can just accept.
i thought you meant as in you die as the heavy using the warriors spirit
I think Heavy may have misunderstood the 2nd amendment… or did he improve it?
He's Russian, I don't think he even knows about the American Constitution
Idk.
m.ruclips.net/video/sRGp0S7qZLw/видео.html
I'd say he improved it.
Bear arms
BEAR ARMS
B E A R. A R M S!
Reminds me of new vegas honestly
I'm happy with that "Bear is on a tear" quip, and that the Spirit is in a good place on the rebalance server.
when I first got into tf2 I thought these things were the best melee in the game, even ahead of the eyelander for some dumb reason
Brain goes Unga bunga when it sees more damage
@@bialex8083 I mean to be fair I mostly played mvm
Bruh
I’m so glad you covered this weapon! I run Brass Beast, Buffalo Steak, and Warrior’s Spirit at all times on heavy. It makes his rollout or sneak attacks amazing, and in open combat the brass beast just shreds people. Do I die, all the time? Yes. Is it super fun to annihilate people? Also yes.
the way i would tweak the hibernating bear set
BB: make the damage resistance non conditional
BSS:flip the vulnerablility into a resistance
WS:same as the BSS, and make it switch in 2x slower
NOW YOU HAVE A SET THAT AT LEAST SOMEWHAT MAKES SENSE TO USE TOGETHER AND A MAIN THEME THROUGHOUT THE WEAPONS
SLOW TO START UP
BUT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO STOP AFTERWARDS
If non-conditional means always active, then it would be broken, because if someone is attacking a brass beast heavy while the heavy isn't currently holding it, they won't know why 20% of their damage just got stuffed up.
@@zizo5349 by non conditional i mean without the health drain requirement
Oh... Well, if that's the case, then yeah, sure. =)
Pairing the BSS with the WS would give you like 600 effective health
@@-RandomStranger- actually it would only be about 470
when i said the BB's damage resist should be "non conditional" i meant that it would be active no matter what, *so long as the weapon is out* , not just a passive 20% damage reduction at all times
Not a single bear arms joke, 10/10, your perseverance is noted
Warrior's spirit gives Heavy the right to bear arms
16:19
the 3 people dominating fsoas shows how much effort went in to this
Idea for a rebalance: every kill adds a whip speed boost like the KGB and for the same duration, will buff the entire hibernating bear set, also let it stack
Letting it stack will be a little insane, because with the Steak you can turn into a soldier (50% damage vulnerability gives you 200 effective health) who runs around the same speed as a demoman and maybe even faster if you get lucky, and deals 100 damage per swing
I find it hilarious that so many weapons that are considered absolutely terrible in regular gameplay are beyond amazing for MvM.
Anyway, I think what heavy really needs to become a melee monster is a primary "weapon" that's just battle armor. It would trade his ranged firepower for greater health and speed.
A good option for a non MInigun primary for heavy would be shield, give him a nice big team colored shield that drastically increases his health, and decreases charge time for lunchbox items, with maybe a small charge, only being far enough to close a short distance, not enough to make map movement fast nor short enough recharge to make it so your heavy is just always using it
It would be interesting for you to quickly cover major patch changes when talking about design choices. The weapon was totally fine until the Tough Break update which made it unusable.
December 17, 2015 Patch (Tough Break Update)
Changed attributes:
Now heals 50 health on kill. (from +10 health on hit)
Damage received and dealt increased by 30%.
Removed health penalty. (-20 health)
I'm certain that when they made the stats for it, the thought process was "He does 30% more damage, so it's only fair he TAKES 30% more damage. Throw the 50 HP boost on for lols" without actually thinking of how heavy plays.
9:43 Jumping Spider? Man, the "Drop Bear" joke was right there, that was a freebie!"
The warrior's spirit's best situation is when fighting an enemy that doesn't fight back and takes less than half damage from your gun
At that point your basically fighting a friendly hoovy with a friendly medic pocket
16:17 it' hilarious how all the enemies have domination marks on them
I still don't get the mentality behind the idea of giving the slowest class in the game a melee alternative that makes them more vulnerable to damage while giving them the smallest speed boost when demoman was given an infinitely more mobile alternative and damage output so much so that a heavy with the best possible melee option dueling a demoknight can still easily lose.
Demoknigt struggles with heavys, unless they have the fos or something. You are looking at 3 hits with the skullcutter if you guarantee the first hit is a crit.
I just thought of an interesting rework for the Warrior Spirit.
What if they removed one of its bonuses to instead make it grant melee resistance whilst equipped (whilst making the current vulnerability only apply to non-melee damage), effectively making it the reverse of the Fists of Steel?
Busted in Medieval
Terrible in normal gameplay. Just encourages people to shoot you more, like how the fists of steel encourages people to melee you.
Effectively changes nothing because everyone is shooting at you anyways, and a straight-up nerf if you remove one of its bonuses for that
@@CyrogenicNation I was mostly saying replace a bonus simply because it may be OP in medieval mode. Personally, I don't care about Medieval mode much, but I know some people do.
@@DrBlueHigh To be fair, you probably shouldn't be running at people with Heavy melee to begin with. If anything, it'd help for if someone jumps you with their own melee (mind you, the Minigun would likely still be a better option).
The only change I'd make to the warrior's spirit would be to turn the 30% general damage vulnerability to a 30% bullet damage vulnerability, it would still be outclassed by other melees most of the time, but it would still certainly be usable. It would also have the effect of making it become a sort of opposite to the fists of steel.
I like the buff ideas of the custom server. Honor bound makes a lot more sense with a steak that won’t let you unequip it. The weaknesses compliment each other instead of exaggerate each other.
Deadass every time I see a new one of these I get such a dopamine hit
My thoughts about how to buff heavy melee’s in general would be to give ‘em a sort of knock out ability. Warrior’s spirit would temporarily be able to flip it’s vulnerability to resistance.
Warrior's Spirit is yet another one of those weapons that have a very situational use. (MEDIEVAL MODE)
Yeah but it's still pretty outclassed by the KGB.
@@evilyoshimaster Agreed. I use KGB when on medieval mode EXCLUSIVELY. Sometimes I use fists for haha funny taunt kill.
And tank busting in MVM.
Ideas that come to mind for the Steak: remove the hidden stat for damage vulnerability. You got no gun. That's a hard nerf.
Ideas for the Spirit:
Why not just reduce the swing speed? Make it so the Spirit is more consistent than KGB but less burst damage.
Idea for lunging attack seems enticing, although i would place something like "if you miss your lunge, THEN the vulnerability applies." So at least spirit now allows you to whip out your BEAR ARMS without instantly regretting it.
@@quint3ssent1a
So for how long do you remain vulnerable?
@@TheKing-qz9wd err... Maybe for 3-4 seconds? To encourage you not to miss lunges.
@@quint3ssent1a
Sounds okay.
can't remove damage vulnerability because it makes it too strong to use in a gamemode that has a different style of gameplay than the mode that the majority plays
The Terminator 2 clip was a nice touch.
I'd say something to consider is to give it health on damage instead of health on kill (about a health per two damage), remove the damage vulnerability, and have the heavy marked for death while eating the steak (the steaks horrible downsides gone as well to counteract that). Sacrifice health during downtime in exchange for health in the fight, Blackbox style (other problems including covering the distance needed to attack fleeing enemies be altered if need be).
You know heal on hit and no vulnerability is basically just it pre nerf. It healed on hit and reduced max by 20. (Not in the snarky way, just like, they really borked it.)
@@The_Bird_Bird_Harder actually didn't know that. Thanks for the info! But yeah regardless that sounds way better than having to get it on kill.
I once had a dream where the Warrior’s Spirit was buffed so the health on kill applied to all weapons. No idea how broken that would be, but it definitely feels like something Valve would do
my idea to change it would be to change its damage vulnerability from 30% to 15% and replace it's health on kill with a 50% health steal, then change the buffalo steak's 20% damage vulnerability to a 20% resistance and boost its movement speed buff to 50%.
This weapon seriously missed an opportunity by not being named "the bear hands". Am I the only one to whom that thought occurred?
yes you are alone
Doesn't the description for the Officer's Ushanka use this exact joke?
I love how I got the Warrior’s Spirit the same day this video comes out because I was playing Medieval Mode. I managed to go on a decent killstreak before Huntsman Snipers killed me
No idea why this is paired with the buffalo steak sandvic-
*one hits a soldier*
Oh
Once I was in a game where there was a warrior spirit heavy, he kept appearing out of nowhere in the most obscure places and owning all the scout somehow
The thing about the Eviction Notice is that you can actually travel further with it than with the GRU and at less max health lost, so while it's worse than the GRU at escaping situations or retreating (especially if you're already low-health with either melee), it's so much better as a general mobility tool.
On top of that, it letting you approach enemies fast-ish but with more health than the GRU means you can do similar things to the Powerjack where you can rush in, close the distance and then abuse it with a Shotgun; the Panic Attack is very noticeable in this case with its higher threshold-breaking damage at close range and much quicker switch speed.
IMO, the GRU is Heavy's Escape Plan while the Eviction Notice is his Powerjack.
Equalizer: Let's give Soldier a weapon that gets stronger the closer he is to death. It'll be crap, but he'll have one, maybe two ways to use it in a pub-y kind of way. It'll have a taunt kill at least too. A good one, AOE.
Warrior's Spirit: Let's give the slowest class with no real good ways to engage anyone in melee a melee weapon that makes all ranged options deal 30% more damage to them. And a secondary item that takes away his healing for mini-crits, but makes him take even MORE damage, and a small speed boost that might help him hit someone once before taking a point blank shotgun to the face. That makes sense. Oh and even with the Mini-Crits, still take two shots to drop any class short of a Kunai/Earner spy. THAT MAKES SENSE FOR REMOVING ALL GOOD OPTIONS OFF HEAVY.
You know your weapon is in dire straits when one of the positives is "it's alright in MANNPOWER"
The lunge idea is particularly interesting, since it also helps with one of The Brass Beast's weaknesses: Getting into position.
Here's an idea: Fix all Heavy melees damage-wise. All of them. He can already shred you at close range, who cares?
I say make it tied to the gimmick of punching left or right. The hands now have the same base stats as the bat, but the right hand as an extra .3 second delay on its attack, which is visible in its animation-effectively giving it the normal .8 second interval and deals normal damage. Each fist has a separate attack interval, letting you chain left and right punches together. The right fist is easier to see coming and dodge, it's 18 frames for you fighting game folk, plus not only will Heavy make a little audio cue when he's about to punch with right, but if you got hit by a left punch, you can react to the pain sound and dodge the right punch. That being said, both hitting is devastating.
This means it only takes a little over half a second for a heavy to kill light classes with melee if he uses a left-right-left. At max melee range (48 hu), the minigun still kills a lot faster (.315 seconds), but the fists now do kill faster at that range than the shotgun.
You'll be able to throw out 4 punches in .8 seconds, dealing 165 damage, killing Medics in the same time it would take a normal melee to kill a light class.
In one second, you'll throw out 5, dealing 235 damage. This is half the damage than the minigun can do at that range, and at this point hitting them all is less reliable. Still, the damage is a 58 difference to two shotgun blasts at this rate.
This massively buffs all melees, to the point where the KGB might need more of a nerf. The Warrior's Spirit at this rate kills a light class in just over .3 seconds, about matching the damage of the minigun. It kills Demos and Pyros in .5 seconds, slower now than the minigun, but still a lot quicker than any other melee.
How this would affect every melee would have to be tested, but it wpuld let Heavy do something with melee and make the Warrior's Spirit a decent weapon.
Fuck you and your dumb artsy I'm special profile picture
Awesome idea
I think what would also be cool is if the right fist has a bit of upward knockback and stun, that would make it feel more like an uppercut
6:29 here we see two melee heavies enter a display of dominance
After playing some MVM with modded upgrades, I thought of some stats that would make The Warrior's Spirit an absolutely wacky Heavy melee choice.
Those stats are: +25% Faster move speed on wearer (this is passive, not just when the weapon is out), +40% Greater jump height on wearer, +50% Knockback resistance (Heavy already has pretty high knockback resistance built-in, but with the added knockback resistance, airblast, and Direct Hit rockets won't push him around as much).
This would come at a cost of halving The Heavy's minigun ammo to 100 (and maybe halving shotgun ammo to 16, maybe), and dropping The Heavy's base health to 200, and The Heavy would receive 50-75% less ammo from ammo boxes and dispensers, making the choice of pulling out the minigun much more important regarding timing.
These stats would sort of let The Heavy tap into the more animalistic side of the weapon, with higher jumps and faster movement and more damage (assuming keeping the 30% damage bonus after all this is a remotely good idea), and would be a pretty interesting melee weapon for Fat Scout, while making the reduced minigun ammo more difficult to sustain in situations where you have to commit to using it, as well as the greatly reduced health, lowering Heavy's maximum overheal and sustainability, making him sort of a glass cannon, but the passive faster move speed and jump height does make things more interesting when roaming the map for flanks, or when getting into position. Still not the best at coming up with balance changes, so, I could once again be talking nonsense.
8:48 The soldier's Direct Instant Rocket Ejector that Carries Teammates by Harming Irritating Turrets was called Scout-B-Gone
I can't believe that this guy once was a promising creepypasta youtuber. Now he is a big boy TF2 enjoyer.
Congrats having your start of video ad be less then 30 seconds, you're doing better then 99% of RUclips
My favourite part is seeing how many people have dominations over you at the end of
The amount of blood, sweat and tears to make this video is far more than you would expect
You could say the process was
Unbearable
This guy sounds fucking insane when laughing
I think we should double down on that stats, make it an absolute glass cannon , increase the damage it does and increase damage it takes
12:17 Man that pyro was so confused LOL
The only instance I found where this weapon actually spanks is in small cp maps with a soldier running banner + whipping you. That’s it. But if you happen to find yourself in this specific scenario, it definitely really very works.
18:44 "By the evil arm of the thunderous montezuma, :("
slowly approaching bear
bear is approaching at alarming speeds
Fish has convinced me that heavy needs his bear-kunai with lifesteal and overheal
6:14 The last "dead" instance had me laughing WAY harder than it should've. 😂
makes sense that the hibernating bear set only works in mvm, you’re a big grizzly man and you’re tearing down the robots who want to take over the world
this bear has come to rip and tear as everyone stares
12:04 you jumped down and knew, it was your time to shine
Also I just wanna add to the holiday punch: you can kill the aimbotters with it to pour some extra salt in the wound.
Fishonastickonastick be like: I am bad weapons guy. And this “grabs warrior spirit” is my weapon
6:14 I wasn't at all expecting a classic Jontron reference, but I can dig it lmao
Ayo merch? My boy has blown up
It was immensely satisfying to see you tickle a bot. I can only hear the muffled cries of it's motherboard as it tries so hard to quicksnipe you.
12:17 YOOOOO BRO BROKE HIM UP THAT PYRO AINT KNOW WHERE TO LOOK
Valve: *Sees this video*
Also Valve: "Time to nerf the KGB."
How about we buff the health on kill to like, Full heal? That would make it a much more of a All or nothing weapon!
16:56 Fish... bears don't pounce on things, they chase them down, pouncing is a cat thing...
I 100% agree with the Honor Bound mechanic, fits with the theme perfectly
nice vid, im steaing ur heavy bear look
Nice new installment to the series
One of the best tf2 series
Your rebalance server breaths life into tf2's weapons holy
0:01-0:04 was great. Original and wasn't expecting it.
6:22 was just hilarious. That could fit so many memes.
This episode was nice.
I think the claws and the steak are supposed to partially neutralize his main strength, his health pool, in order to boost his speed and melee in order to shake up his main playstyle. The problem is that standard melee is basically useless for every class with a plural number of eyes.
And this is in the same set as the Brass Beast, and the Buffalo Steak... THREE BAD WEAPONS IN THE SAME SET
I love vampire bears
This is a nice coincidence
I unboxed a Strange Warrior's Spirit just this morning
Mans really said "FINE, I'll do it myself"
9:05 That was like an anime fight. lol damn
6:23 Nice use of that Jontron joke.
"Fire? Dead. Dead, dead, dead DEAD!"
Aw yes man, more blue T-Shirts for my collection.
Bad melee weapons are so fun to use with grappling hooks, from the skullcutter to the warrior's spirit, grapping hooks are so broken.
Should'v called it the Koala Heavy Technique, the ol Drop Bear
"Jumping spider heavy"
Shoulda called it the "Drop Bear'
17:59 THIS IS SO SMART CUZ IT'S LIKE A BEAR NOT BEING ABLE TO HIBERNATE UNTIL IT GETS A KILL IT MAKES HEAVY INTO AN ACTUAL HIBERNATING BEAR OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD
“There isn’t really much to say about this weapon” *proceeds to make a nearly 20 minute video about that weapon*
Here's an idea: make it so either the steak or the Warrior's Spirit grants knockback immunity. Make it so that the melee side of things is facilitated, while also providing some gimmick that works outside of just melee combat
I hear that Hades music and all I can think of is when Exagryph is getting an episode.
The spy at 2:41 probably chewing his teammate out in chat after that
the WS had a broken base concept from the beginning
my idea, as far too often I wrote in these comments, is a full on rework; a "bleed on hit" and a "minicrit on bleeding enemies" for a damage reduction from these, and the negativ eeffect unchanged (or somewhat reduced the damage vulnerability)and a reduced healing, but from every enemy that you caused bleed on on death. heavy doesn't really shine for support or status, but a bleeding enemy more often than not get surprised by the amount of damage they slowly suffer
and also the removed knockback on the steack. THAT?S EXACTLY what the steack needs
How would knock back make the steak better?you'd just spend more time chasing people you knocked out of your melee range
@@CAMSLAYER13 LESS knockback on the heavy, not "add knockback to hit"
@@serPomiz yea, that'd make much more sense
7:04
"A Q-force is an incredibly easy way to die"
wow
I thought of this exact same joke 4 months after I made it
wow