Terminator X closed loop boost control class
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2019
- stealing the map sensor signal only wire to enable complicated boost control easily and effectively, using a bunch of options including 3-4 port recirculated options on terminator X, how i set it up and showing how it works etc.
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Im learning. Thank you for all that you do. Cant wait to get our turd ripping on this and you've given me so many more ideas!
Bring him down and collab 🤘🏼 Matt’s the man
I never knew how a 4 port solenoid worked with an external gate, that was a perfect explanation Matt, Cheers!
Thx for the video Matt, the generosity you have with your knowledge really helps the common man. well done
So good, I love learning about this stuff.
Thank you so much for making these videos, very excited for my terminator to show up and get started.
Thank you Matt! This is awesome!
You just answered all my questions. I was wondering how this works. Very smart way you fool the ecu. Cant wait to see what it does when the head gasket is replaced.
Good stuff brother. Thanks for this. I haven't been able to purchase a TerminatorX yet but I've been playing with the software to figure it out and this is a HUGE help.👍
Great video Matt, thanks again for the knowledge!
Always a big help. Thanks.
Thank you so much for doing this!
Thanks, that was a great video!
Yeah I’m enjoying learning all this
Do you have recommendation on a part number they have a high frequency and regular 4 port?
J Minnick Holley do one 557-201
@@8wireracing694 im looking for a $50 solenoid not $300
Great info thanks for sharing
Great intro it's a lot to soak in being first time using the X system and turbo configuration
That’s incredible! Wow
Great Video And Explanation...
Thanks Matt. Was wonder how you used map for dome. Now I know.
I’m going to set my boat control up like this tomorrow and see how it goes 👍
Matt I’m working on my F3 clone with Holley. This is awesome!!
FYI dual 3-ports can be plumbed to do this as well. In most cases people prefer duals since dual MAC 3-port flows less than a single 4-port, and that leads to more stable boost since it doesn't fill/vent the wastegate ports as fast.
Another thing that can help stability is running a high-flow sintered filter (cone) or none at all. The small button filters can restrict airflow and cause an even wackier boost-vs-PWM curve.
Thank you, Matt!!!
This one explained it all!
But I would love to see/hear your thoughts about building boost while sitting on two pedals (have no trans brake).
Their launch control I mean.
The same way just wire the trigger input to the proper brake pedal wire or a dash mounted momentary button like a trans brake. The ecu doesnt know you dont have a trans brake, it just knows you are commanding launch strategy.
Shouldn’t have to “tap” into any sensor wire. Huge oversight by Holley.
Thank you Matt. Another awesome video explaining the setup.
Do you think holley will allow the map based control method in a future update?
1:57 I don’t have an option for pwm setup, is there a way to add that button?
Mine targets spot on using 1.5, 5, 0.4. with an 11.5 psi/sec rate limiter so that kinda changes things a bit. i got the rate from a log of targeting full boost and rolling into it. thats a stock L33 with a Z06 cam, 75mm BW and T6 1.32 AR hot side and single 66mm gate using a 4 port MAC at about 6800ft. lot of variables there lol but maybe it will help someone still :/ love the video as always!
Thanks for the info I’ll have to try it on my own and some others
@@SloppyMechanics did you ever try these settings?
have any input/info you can provide for dual mac valve setup, compressor source, using boost vs rpm for a street car? running a sniper on a 302, single turbo. mainly curious of pid settings ( i tested with shop air and dialed it in somewhat).. I'm guessing the pid values are affected by the psi of source pressure though.. but also curious of how exactly i should set the boost vs rpm table.. should it be flat to act as a stronger wastegate spring, or ramp it like the boost vs time tables.. block isn't strong, so i probably can't handle more than 8psi.. it has a 4psi spring in the gate.
Quick question, im trying to run this set up with the 4 port. what are you doing with the output? Just running the boost solenoid into a PMW- like B3 or one of the outputs to trigger the mac to open and close.
Thanks
I just did this to my car but I cant seem to get my ramp under control. I have a dual solenoid set up with c02. Do I just play with the PID adjustments? or do I also go into my outputs and play with the duty cycle graph on my solenoid's?
This is the kind of content that makes my brain happy. How do you go about figuring out the ins and outs of the software?
Great info. I was wondering if you was going to cover this.
Well now that I am sure of results I’m more confident telling people. How to
@@SloppyMechanics keep up the great work Matt. I have the x max and any info like this is greatly appreciated by all of us.
Burning an input for that much control is almost a no brainer.
That’s a great way to control it.
When you choose compressor vs co2 that is referencing the turbo compressor?
I'm trying this method out and I'm having some trouble figuring it out. seems like no matter what I target I get 18-19 psi. Is this a pwm setting I need to adjust or the PID?
Hi Matt going to follow this set up but my question is can I go as low as 3psi on spring and have a max boost of 28-30 psi? Or would I need to have on board air to do this plan on racing a hard tire class so think i would need to leave on no or very little boost.
Thanks matt
will using manifold pressure as dome pressure be a good setup for Dual 3-port solenoids (one as a vent, one as a fill)? im a newbie at this and using 2 solenoids because holley said that was the best setup for my single turbo
Amazing work around! Hey Matt did you ask Holley why MAP wasnt in the dropdown? Was it a feature limitation they'd rather include with Dominator? Was it a oversight? Or is there a technical reason?
Awesome video Matt, how do you set your a/f ratio guage to read correctly for E85? I cannot find to much about it online, mine stays in the 8.5 range on E and most that i see are btwn 12.5 to 13.5 a/f, should mine read this on E85?
Can you explain what to set the terminator at when you have a boost leash controller, or how to use the solenoid from boost leash with holley control.
Thank you for making this video! I do have a question though.. I am having issues getting target boost on the trans brake.. the boost is completely controlled throughout the pull, however when trying to get up to 10psi on the brake it struggles.. and suggestions? also I am on holley HP not the Terminator
Mat how would I go with installing Holleys high flow boost solenoid 557-201 using my turbo as the pressure I'm not using co2 or air compressor. The diagrams that you showed are for Holley older dual solenoid so now I'm just trying to figure out how to install they're newer style solenoid using the Dome pressure to Terminator X would I install it like method 1 because Holley newer solenoid has one in and one out port with two solenoids sitting on the top of their solenoid block
I had a question on removing caps from fuel injectors.
Is that only on a GM or can you do that with other manufacturers...
You are awesome !!! Thank you for this video. Can you take the signal from the GM map sensor also ? or can it only be the 100 psi (5V) Pressure transducer ? Also would my Mac 4 port solenoid work with the ramp setting with a 5 pound spring? I have a twin turbo dual tial wastegates and race port BOV. How do you connect the boost solenoid wires to the holley terminator x?
Question? Have they changed where you can use map yet? And what about the Dominator can you use map on it or is dome as well?
for the PIN MAP do you assign Boost + Solenoid as PWM or normal output PWM with duty cylce?
That's thinking out of the box. Dumbass like me couldn't ever put that together. Awesome info and saying where I I'm sure others can understand it. Better said ty for dumbing it down so it's simple to understand. Ty
Awesome info Matt. Thank you. Soaking it all up. This Holley stuff is the cat's pajamas.
Jess Neal if it was the cats Pajamas... you wouldn’t have to tap into a sensor wire that the ecu already has the signal from. Stupid.
I am confused as to why on your data log it is targeting 24psi when your table is only setup to 19psi. Did you use the boost scramble button on the dyno to target the 24psi target the dyno?
For testing purposes, do you have to set up the Terminator X in any way to run on just the wastegate spring? BTW, thumbs up for the precise explanation of topic!
So do I use the 5 volts to power the transducer and the signal out to PCM for Dome control input?
Did you primarily switch to Holley from MS?
You give great information. I have the Holley Max, turbo, 4L80e. I used a global tune that has your settings for boost. But I already have my boost leash running. EFI 3 bar MAP. How do I delete things in the boost settings and let my boost leash run boost with the 3 bar?
Also what do I set boost settings in the Holley to run the 3bar and boost leash?
So for the boost vs time table, once the timer reaches the end of the table does it start back again from the beginning and continue to loop around? Or will it carry the targeted value for dome pressure until the end of the run?
End of run.
Matt so you physically spliced the 5v map signal from the Holley harness? I’ve got it all set up in the software. Just want to make sure before I cut my harness
Yup
I think I'm missing something here... If you're using the intake manifold absolute pressure as the feedback for the boost control, how does this handle closed throttle and part throttle?
If I'm thinking about this correctly, when the throttle blade is not fully open the intake does not see full boost. Therefore it must hold the wastegate shut... And with a four-port that can be insanely high...
Or am I just missing something and you're using a separate pressure sensor located in front of the throttle body?
Did you use a external MAP sensor or the integrated sensor I am assuming external?
Damn, watching your videos makes me wish I was smarter, I can’t get the boost control to work to save my life. I’ve watched your video 4 times and a21bravo’s video 6times still dosnt make sense lol. I’ll get it, I’m too dumb to quit.
Always found it odd when developers remove options/parameters in software that's widely used. Perhaps Holly will revise the current version if enough people approach them
I’m running dome map and I’m always 1.5-2psi off my commanded. Boost will spike then slowly come down to redline. Which having a falling boost curve is pretty annoying. I’m just starting to play with the PID settings. Do you think I need to mess with the sensor offset? Or what can I do? Only running 10lbs so the falling curve is not desirable.
Did dial my pids better but really the issue is hardware not software. At the time I was just using time but commanding the same boost for street use. Ended up going with rpm. I just command less initially to hit my desired not targeted than ramp it up from there to maintain.
I agree, would be much simpler if manifold pressure was an option. Great work around.
Looking into using the Holley dominator closed loop boost control setup on a positive displacement supercharger. Would like to talk you to get a better understand of duty cycle table.
Can you turn the volume up Matt ?
Have you tried closed loop control on a 4 port with megasquirt before?
So do you add a pressure transducer to the Dome or not? You said you didn't give it a 5 V or a ground, all you did was wire the signal from map to an imput configured like your 3 bar map sensor. I'm trying to understand your wiring methodology and getting confused.
Or just tell Holley to fix it, re program it so it works off manifold base boost control as it should to begin with!!!! but love the break down regardless, awesome content as always!!!
Trust me I have been telling them since I first saw the hardware
I’ll bet it’s not a bug or error. They do this so it forces you to buy a holley HP. Matt always has work arounds lol nice vid
I know I’m late to this party but I had a question after watching this. Could I move the pressure sensor that’s in my waist gate to a vacuum block I have mounted on my firewall instead of slicing into the MAP 5v sensor wire? Thanks for all you do.
Are you able to do boost by speed or boost by rpm
With the boost control and bump, have you used up all the inputs/outputs on the holley yet??? What else are you controlling with it?
MrLs1racer I believe he has transbrake/launch, flexfuel sensor, Dome/Map and scramble/bump. That’s all 4 inputs. The outputs would be the 4 port, transbrake/ bump and a fan I think.
Yep! I turned off bump to be able to use dome input for now
I have a question just two questions . Im using the Mac solenoid on a twin turbo set up . Do I need two Mac solenoids ? Second question. In the illustration your using the #3 port to #2 port is this how I should also plumb it up ? Oh also my turbos are internal waste gates
Also great videos I’ve tuned a few cars from your information you provide. this is the first internal waste gate I’ve done thanks for any help you can provide
Found it ! I zoomed n on your diagram thanks
Can someone tell my in the outputs - configure - PWM setup, what the heck does the duty cycle table do with the wastegate setup the way Matt described here. That's the only part that still confuses me.
ruclips.net/video/6lvHYmwEpwY/видео.html
Doing the flex fuel write up soon Matt?
So you tapped the map sensor 5v wire for the 5v input to fake out computer for the dome sensor?
Map signal to ecu, split into one of the Holley inputs, then told it that it was Dome input
Damn i just installed a dome sensor on my wg because fueltech requires it for closed loop. I gave up an input for no reason then. It does seem weird that they dont use map for closed loop
@@buiItnotbought Part of the cheap package... can't give all the goods or no one will get the Pro equipment.
Those dirty guys lol. Atleast the updates are free haha
Sloppy Mechanics exactly what wire is the map sensor
So just to clarify you did actually splice a new wire from map sensor input to this input? Thanks
on this car, i went about 6 inches out of the wiring harness, and crimped the map and input together, and then set it up, i cant recommend this for most people anymore as MOST struggle to make it work correctly.
@@SloppyMechanics Oh Wow, really? I can;t see how this would be any more difficult to set up than true dome control with a dome sensor? In fact it should save a decent amount of T&T to get it right? What is everyone having trouble with?
So as of 9-25-22 holley still hasn't given us a "Target Map" as an option on terminator X? I believe I have the latest update, I guess it's just another reason for them to justify the higher price for the dominator ecu.
So, you're taking one of the wires from the mac valve and splicing into the 5v on the holley harness, and taking the other wire on the mac and putting it to an input wire white/red for example?
No
@@SloppyMechanics not even close huh haha
@@bastardfords he spliced into the map sensor signal wire and hooked that lead to one of the input trigger wires so the ecu sees the map sensor pressure value and adjusts duty cycle according to however you have it set up.
@@zero2583 just now seeing this. So the mac valve wiring goes to a 12v and then what?
Chris Beets I’m trying to figure this out as well. I would assume you hook the other wire to the corresponding output. But I don’t know. I’m still setting my Holley up.
Hey Matt This is a really smart way to use a 4 port, I ended up setting up nitrous configuration and it allows you to Change it to boost pressure and it uses the map sensor without having to use the extra input, have you ever tried it this way?
Really no way! I didn’t know that… can you explain or show me then?
@@SloppyMechanics yes sir , I can email you my tune file if you wanna check it out. So far I’ve tested it with up to 12 psi and it seems to follow the commanded within a half a pound. I’m still trying to dial in my tune before I throw much more boost at it . I’m the definition of a beginner at all this , I guess realistically I will be using an input after all though because I’m gonna hook it up to a switch so I can run it on gate if I let anyone else drive it 😂
@@darrenlooper1095 yeah i am curious how you are doing it and how well it works broad based, ill try it on some shit for sure, can you email me it sloppymechanics@gmail.com
This work w much less boost pressure?
Lol want to run like 10max
Any source for those diagrams of 3&4 port configurations?
Google, I believe turbosmart drew most of these really nice ones
Sloppy Mechanics
Thanks, man!
Holy shit 20,000 rpm you would think they would let you scale it or something for more resolution or something
You can
Terminator X. Also a public enemy song?
He was the DJ and he had is own album at one point.
less resolution with 4 port :) because the working range is less
Fucking terminator is incredible. No regerts buying it.
Can you provide electrical and plumbing schematics? I am a visual learner.
Has anyone tried this with a dual mac co2 setup instead of compressor?
Yes I have tuned a few with it
@@SloppyMechanics I'm curious, since mine is already setup with a dome sensor in the wastegate, rather than splicing the map sensor, couldn't I just put the dome sensor in the intake?
Hey mat can you help me with setting my boost control I called Holley and told they I have a 95 mustang turbo 5.0 and want to purchase the Terminator X and every thing I need. So they told me to purchase a 3 bar map,3 100 PSI transducer 1 for oil 2nd for fuel 3rd for dome psi and a Holley 557-201 hi flow boost controller ( found out after that is way Overkill for a boost controller) the car runs great I just cannot get it to control boost properly my Boost vent solenoid keeps buzzing from 0 to 15% at idle. I will pay you to look at the files and adjust if that works for you
Am I right in assuming they purposely leave out features like Map as a control method to create a tiered product line? Or is there something physical it needs and I'm just retarded?
PLEASE HELP!!
You are awesome !!! Thank you for this video. Can you take the signal from the GM map sensor also ? or can it only be the 100 psi (5V) Pressure transducer ? Also would my Mac 4 port solenoid work with the ramp setting with a 5 pound spring? I have a twin turbo dual tial wastegates and race port BOV. How do you connect the boost solenoid wires to the holley terminator x?