Old Faithful or Just Old News?...9MM Federal Premium Hydra Shok +P+ Self-Defense AMMO Test!
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Checking out some 124 grain 9mm +P+ Hydra Shok ammo from Federal. Is this oldie still a good option for defensive use? Heavy clothing ballistic gel test using a Canik Mete MC9 and Glock 17!
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In 92 I was issued 147 gr Hydra Shoks. We used to very good effect for years until we switched to 147 gr Black Talons. These were awesome and left the nastiest wounds that I saw first hand. Then over the years we used golden sabers, and currently Gold dots. All 147gr because they penetrate heavy clothing better. The Talons are my favorite to this day.
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147g in full size pistols, correct? We appreciate the first hand knowledge! I go heavy for caliber in my full sizes. But in my compact I feel I need 115s to get the velocity needed. I'm always on the fence with this stuff and that's why I love this channel and the added input in the comments.
@@Yetified_Mayhem full size and compact. We have to carry 147gr
I’ve seen some videos where it showed that when go to shorter barrels the heavier bullets seem to lose less velocity compared to lighter bullets. I don’t remember if it was Paul Harrel or someone else that did a full length video comparing something like a Glock 17, 19 and 26. I’ve been carrying 147gr +p hst , but it’s been harder to find since covid, I have a few hundred 124gr +p gold dots that’ll take their place Jen I run through them.
Yes sir, medical made a stink about them. To be fair, the original had some long nasty blades. After expansion they were hard to handle with bare hands and not get stuck.
Fleece: the high-tech bullet stop
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Facts!😎👊
“ Run in whatever I put it in!” I like that.
Wow..a blast from the past...I graduated from Jefferson County Police Academy (Louisville, KY) prior to Louisville Metro Police in 1995 ....we were issued these for duty in our Sig P226s....a very accurate load...and worked very well for us in street use.....great solid duty round!!
From Louisville myself, thank you for what you guys do I know it can't be easy.
HST seems to perform better at these velocities. 125gr hydra shok was the boss in 357 Magnum
These are good rounds. We issued these for duty for years until they were replaced by Gold Dot 124+P. The gold dots were better all around and held together better thru windshields. These from an MP5 at ~1400 fps were wicked good but would come apart on barriers. Great test as always!
Thank you sir.😎👊
I seem to have problems running hollow points out of my MP5
@RicArmstrong we never had problems with them in our department guns, but I'm sure there are finicky ones out there. Ours had so many thousands of rounds through them the feed ramps had grooves just from the wear! That probably helped with feeding!
@@themoe6701
You sure it was MP5's?
Because MP5's don't have feed ramps
@RicArmstrong that was a long time ago...I must be thinking of a different gun with the feed ramp wear. But the guns we had were definitely mp5's
Edit: the ammo we used over the years was 147 hydra shok, black talon (don't remember the bullet weight), 124 +p+ hydra shok, and 124 gold dot +p. Those all fed without a hitch in the 4 mp5's we had. We phased the mp5's out eventually when we went to all AR platform rifles, which we should have done much earlier!
Appreciate your videos, truly. Before I buy any defensive ammo I come here for your input and reviews. Thanks for what you do here.
The hydra Shocks are a old favorite just like the gold dots they definitely get the job done. I don't get all caught up in the +p and +p+ game it makes no sense to me how ammo company's determine one from another. Some ammo company's straight lie and some set up the perfect case scenario shoot a couple hundred rounds and the highest number they get is what they put on the side of the box. I swear some of them use a carbine to get the crazy high velocitys. That's why you're videos are so valuable to me they either confirm the same results or save me a lot of time and money trying garbage ammo and sometimes you find ammo that is awesome and I never heard of and I can't wait to try it. Good video you don't always have to get new ammo to make a great video.
Thank you sir. 😎👊
Still here tools hands are hurting bad to my Arthritis in my hands but I still watch everyone of your videos
I definitely appreciate it, brother. Take care of yourself so you're around for a lot longer!😎👊
The Hydra Shok has been around for many moons and was top dog. I prefer the HST normal or in +P. I think the HST out performs any that I've seen. I carry the HST +P 124gr in my Glock 26. The only HST I've ever saw that did a not-so-good job was the 380. For 380 I carry the Underwood Extreme Penetrator 90gr +P. Thanks for testing that Hydra Shok. It performed as expected. Enjoyed the video. 🤠
as well as the second one opened up in the gel, i'm surprised the disruption tract wasn't more pronounced! good vid, as always
Thank you sir.😎👊
I have to figure the slower one tumbled, and that led to the difference in wound channels, but who knows.
I wasn't aware that Federal made any 9mm 124gr +P+ loadings, with the G-17 It was nice, the velocity seemed low as you said, everything Vista outdoors has made are some of the best, I've seen the Hydra-Shok fail, but the Hydro-Shok deep was very impressive, Thanks Brian.👊 🇺🇸
Me either. Not sure if these are still offered or if it's just from them getting LEO trade stuff.
Remember the old Federal 9BP 115 +P+?? Those were the real deal. I have a stash of them, clock an honest 1300+ from a 4" bbl.
I honestly did not expect the Hyrda-Shoks to perform that well. Very nice.
I carried Hydra-Shoks for many years, in various calibers, and fortunately never had to use them against an adversary! They were always very accurate and functioned well in all of my firearms.
I have since switched over to Hornady Critical Duty or Critical Defense loads for all of my defensive handgun use.
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I'm willing to bet the one on top tumbled, and that's what caused that insanely large permanent cavity.
Wouldn't doubt it.
Yeah I think you're right
CARRIED THIS STUFF IN MY OLD GLOCK 19 GEN. 2 ON DUTY. IT WORKED WELL. WHAT WAS EVEN BETTER IT WAS ONLY ABOUT 15 DOLLARS FOR A BOX OF 50.
Sure wish you could get it for that price now.😆
I remember buying these 12 years ago when I first started carrying 40Sw Hydra shoks .. switched to HST but def excited to actually see what hydra shoks do
Still some keepers
Good choice.
When you talk about your heavy clothing test, I always think of Buckeye Ballistic denim tests. I still watch his stuff occasionally but I always think he lives around some mean Amish folks. The Amish around here are pretty peaceful 😁
The Amish mafia!😲😲😲
Underwood Ammo 147g +P+ Gold Dot 🔥🔥🔥 Unfortunately Underwood no longer offers that particular round . I did purchase 300rds of it when it was available 😎
Yessir. I have a handful of boxes of those still. The 124 Gold Dot +P+ from them is my 9mm edc round.
MC9 CANIK makes another great showing. Real nice video and commentary. Nice to see Federal ammo performing as advertised once again. If I was going to a smaller pistol it would be the MC9 very consistent and reliable and a really good trigger. Agree with you, nice test. Usually no smaller than 4.5” barrel for me. Thanks for sharing be safe.⭐️⭐️🇺🇸⭐️⭐️
Love this Canik.😎👊
Interestingly the Federal Punch you tested outperformed this round by expanding much larger and penetrating much deeper. The fact that FP is cheaper seals the deal for my EDC.
I've been pretty impressed with Punch in most calibers.😎👍
@@ToolsandTargets I just watched 10mm test with your top 3 choices. I noticed none of them beat the Federal Punch in both penetration AND expansion compared to the FP 9mm even though they were larger in weight size and velocity. That swayed me completely into the Federal Punch camp. As per your videos I purchased a large quantity of both 9mm for my wife and .45 for me.
These type of test be the best. Thanks for sharing Tools
😂 Appreciate ya, brother.😎👊
This is a long time favorite of many law enforcement agencies because it has good stopping power and consistent performance. Thanks for another excellent video.
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Sweet test man! Thanks as always!
I’ve been very curious on the federal Hi-Shok standard pressure. Maybe an idea for a test in the future
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Still a killer. Thanks for the share!!
Those pedals sticking out would do some ripping, but did not bad and would work, thanks for another great range test
About time some good defensive ammo showed up. Great test brother tools 😎
Thank you sir.😎👊
I gotta say again that the slower round seems to have done better. Personally, the way the METE round only half expanded provided a virtual buzz saw as it worked its way through the gel and I think that is superior performance on flesh.
Thanks for another great test. Since my EDC has a 3.1 inch barrel, this round is a no go for me. I had a half box of standard pressure Federal Hydra Shok, saw a ballistic gel test with NO expansion! shot them all at the range. All the hype from a couple decades ago was just that...
I tell you what, these (your) tests have me reloading more actively. I have a chrono and QC my own stuff.
Sure shows ya how much you're not getting from some factory stuff.
@@ToolsandTargets 💯
Love your feel test videos! And I actually like your weather comments! I know you try to use the blocks as much as possible. A trick I thought of to keep off the bottom, you can fill the upper half of block with tracks and then roll them over for next test. So the fresh block bits are now up away from the table. Might help
This was really interesting Tools.
Appreciate ya, brother.😎👊
Perhaps you can do a video explaining which firearms are not suitable for +p ammo. Keep up the great work!
Not my area of expertise. I rate all my guns for +P.
From chrono comparisons ive seen from big name manufacturers +p has basically no difference from standard pressure ammo. Like 10 fps + and -
Denim made from cotton a natural fiber. Fleece made from petroleum products so it probably melts from the heat and sticks to the lead. That’s my opinion. Effective either way. That’s the long and the short of it. 👊😎🫡🇺🇸
Works for me.😎👊
Over 1100fps from a 124 grain 9mm out of a 3.1 barrel is pretty good and over 1150fps out of a 4.5 barrel with the same ammo is good to thanks for the review
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Hey Tools- any way you could cover the newish Beretta 80X?
Jelly time is always a good time!! Nice!!
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After watching like 50 of your videos, I figured it was time to subscribe.
Appreciate that!😎👊
Excellent explanation and presentation.
Thank you sir.
I got the exact same results with these. Since I carry 3.5 to 4 inch barrel guns, these aren't my go-to. However, they do nicely in my PCC.
Great vid Tools. Hydra Shok still in the game after all these years. Thanks!
Thank you sir.😎👊
It’ll do what needs done but there are so many more 9mm HP’s that work better. But out of that G17 looked great. Another great test in the books 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Agreed. Thank you sir.😎👊
HST means Hydra Shok Two. I'm surprisd they still make this round, but old guys keep buying it.
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It stands for hydra shock technology.
Take this as a grain of salt, but the guy who invented Hydra-Shok is also the main designer for the HST. Federal says HST doesn't stand for anything, the letters sounded good together for marketing purposes and so they went with it. Again, take it with a grain of salt, because I'm sure on some gun forum somewhere, the story is completely different.
Many people have contacted Federal on this. HST is just HST. Is Hydra Shock Two or Hydra Shock Technology are all pet monikers people have given it, but HST is the name. Three letters. That's it.
@@Urtjjfjrjtkactually no, it’s huge swingin t*tties
Another good one Tools ! i have a few boxes of this in 147 grain i bought several years ago , it feeds really good in my Ruger and thats what i keep in it .
Thank you sir.😎👊
Thanks dude
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I carry HST, HydraShok, gold dot, and Critical Defence....it all works folks. 2 to the body 2 to the head
147 grains is typically subsonic, has good accuracy, and was the origin of the FBI's 12-18 inch standard developed from autopsy data. That +P+ just ramps up the muzzle energy.
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Back in my LEO days, I chrono'ed our 115 gr Federal +p+ ammo. Out of my Glock 26 (right at 3.5" bbl) I got 1250fps and from a 10.5" (I think) Colt 635 I got 1475fps. Odd how 9 more grains of bullet weight and just under .5" of barrel cost the newest version so much. I wish I'd had a full-size duty pistol to test it from back then, but I figure it had to be hitting close to 1300 from, say a Glock 17 or BHP.
Maybe they reengineered it to meet FBI penetration requirements? The old load was not much for penetration but had outstanding street results from everything I've read. In any case, old or new, I would not want to stand in front of one and would feel pretty good totin' them. In fact, 9BPLE are what's in my Glock 26 and BHP right now. For my Walther P99 I went with 124gr HST. Those get great test results, though in the one shooting we had using them, the results were underwhelming although I don't know that most other loads would have done better.
Definitely agree whatever you put it.Who wants to have different ammunition for barrel lengths? Not that impressed personally! Thanks Tools 👍🏻
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The Hydras were designed before short barrel 9mms were a thing, so these performed well for the guns they were designed for eons ago.
That was nasty looking coming out of that MC9! 😎
Do they even make this round anymore (if this were an old LEO trade-in box)?
But I was highly impressed with the MC9 gel round. Looks nasty.
Thanks Tools 👍
I'm sure it was a LEO trade. Not sure if they make it still.
The +p+ version is not on their website anymore, but they still have the standard pressure
Is the fleece synthetic? That would explain why it "melts/glues" into the cavity (synthetic = "plastic"), whereas jeans are cotton and it doesn't melt.
Another interesting test Tools. Hope you had a good TGIF and have a super weekend.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
So many good rounds these days hard to choose between 124gr HST or 90Lehigh Extreme Defense
Good job Tools! Always informative.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you!😎👊
Have a great weekend Tools! Thanks for the vids
Thank you sir. You too!😎👊
Smack that Block!
Hydra Shok will kill! I carried them in the 90s. Once I found Gold Dot, nothing else mattered.
Not terribly surprised on short barrel. But long barrel performance was very good. Neither failed. Thank you.
The results are..interesting; considering the wound track/displacement of material compared to the expansion & velocity. Seems the claw like expansion of the first projectile, vs. the banana peel like expansion of the second, would be preferable. Possibly this was the concept behind the revered Black Talon's..?
I've been curious about these because they're always the cheapest +P (in .9MM) on ammoseek. There's obviously more potent rounds out there, but these look like they'd work just fine.
I know not identical and a few grains heavier but these remind me of 9BPLE and I think part of the reason the first one had such a bigger jagged wound cavity compared to the 2nd one from the G17 was the way the petals were half opened up kinda helping it spiral and cut it's way through the gel. Have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Yeah, I thought of those too when he gave me these.
Surprised to see that stuff not expand too well out of the canik, considering the grain weight of the projectile and the speed. Kind of a mixed bag.
That was the last 9mm duty round the Border Patrol issued to Agents carrying approved 9mm pistols in the early- mid 90s before switching to .40 across the board. It was effective.
Thanks for the vids dude. I'll stick with HSTs.
Looks like it works very well. Thanks
Good test Tools have a great weekend and God Bless.
Both would work for me.
Like always great job. Thank you so much.
Thank you for the testing. If you should get the chance it would be nice to see a 147gn test. I carried that many years back in my pt-92. 🙂
Just standard pressure or +P?
@@ToolsandTargets any of them that you would like.
That massive gel disruption by the bullet fired from the shorter barrel, combined with the poor, uneven (unbalancing) expansion of the bullet makes me strongly suspect the damage was caused by a 360-degree double tumble of the bullet.
Very possible.
Some more Federal goodness! I've got some standard pressure 147gr Hi-Shok ammo, their "9MS". Its performance out of a carbine is quite nice in my opinion, although it does over-expand and can shed jacket petals at the heightened velocities. Got some 124gr Punch to try out recently, should be fun!
Nice 😎👊
Hi my friend, is interesting velocity and terminal ballistics this ammo in smg 8 inch barrel and pcc 12,5 or 16 inch barrel. All aploads 9mm +p and +p+ they schould be triend with these rod lenghts. Thanks my friend and sorry for my english
Tools, thanks for the after work stress relief content! U have a lot of fans and comments these days, don't over work yourself:) I still cant wrap my small brain around on these +Piss+ p + stuff. I get it if u have one pistol. For me I'm blessed, and hard working enough, to have 9 up to hot 10mm.. I pack for the occasion.. Today for instance, I packed wrong. a fellow worker asked if I had a pistol on me, I said yes a 40, he was like damn thats too loud. Apparently a deer was injured by car again, but we cant make loud noises at work. They axed the poor doe. Where was my 22? At home.....
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Congrats on 71k Brother
Thank you again, my friend!😎👊
Love this video! ❤️
Is there a Holo point that perform excellent in short barrel 9mm? (ie 3.7" & 3")
Oops, autocorrect. I love your GEL test videos. 😊
Thanks buddy…
Thanks for all the testing you do it helps a lot cool video
HST"S, Gold Sabers, Gold Dots (not the G2), 9BPLE and Critical Duty. Everything else is an also-ran.
Wait. , back in the early 1990 s…I used Cor- bon 115 grain HP….right at 1350 fps…..still do ! 4.7 “ tube. 🤷🏼♂️
Any more Defiant Muniton stuff coming Tools? Their stuff always seems excellent
I have a handful of rifle rounds from them to test and there might be some more stuff on the way.😎👊
Since fleece is basically made of plastic, I'd say thats why it fuses with the bullets more so than denim.
Makes sense.😎👍
Thanks for your test !
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Dependable, As mentioned by other guy's us old guys keep buying them. For a reason. Nice test as always, Good on ya 😉
I have some of this in 40 165gr. 3.4'' barrel. It's next up after I run out of the old ammo. This test looked ok to me. Should be good enough for a 9.
Definitely 😎👍
In the late 80's our agency was issued 147 Gn Hydra Shok standard pressure which worked great. Then some clowns decided to go to the 124 Gn Hydra Shok which was a terrible mistake. Before the switch we were averaging about an 80 percent one stop shot, but with the 124 Gn it went to about a 40 percent one stop shot. It ended up taking 5 to six rounds to stop the perps and we got a lot of backlash from the community about shooting perps multiple times. Eventually after a series of tests we ended up choosing the Winchester T series 124 Gn plus P which worked out great ! When the perps came in to Medstar for treatment, the trauma surgeons were shocked to the amount of damage that bullet did to the patients they treated !
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Wondered why LE was having to riddle the suspects to effect a stop. Didn't see this problem when LE was using 40 S&W , 357 Sig, and mostly, 45acp.
Why were the 124s failing to stop? They expand much better than 147s and drive deep enough..
@@Tom-cp6yj They didn't expand in human beings like they did in the jelly tests !
@@Tom-cp6yj They didn't expand in human beings when they were shot. Did well in the jelly test but not in real LIFE scenarios ! This was proven in several OIS !
👍👍great test, thanks Tools.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I’d be curious to see what it would do out of a g19. I think it would do good. Another enjoyable video a great way to end the week!
Appreciate that.😎👊
That compact shot right there is a perfect example of tumbling due to irregular expansion. Of course it looked devastating. It pulled a full somersault or two before it stopped, facing the correct direction (i believe it was facing forward, anyway).
It does look impressive as hell, but that's not a guaranteed result. That's why I'll stick with the good ol' younger brother HSTs.
I don't think it tumbled - I think the petals acted as shards as it spun.
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@@scottstewart5784 it absolutely is tumbling. Watch any video of Tools' catalogue and you'll see that disruption is consistent with any round that tumbles. It's not as obvious this time around as the bullet (at least to me) looked like it was facing forward. As I'm sure you've seen in the past, many bullets often only do .5 or perhaps 1.5 rotations during a tumble, which would in turn make the bullet face backward. There's just too much evidence to say it was tumbling and not much to the contrary.
@@CrashRacknShoot That's not evidence. Evidence is what I see when I zoom on the wound track and can see the spiral the whole way. It's clear there is only a spiral rotation, and not a tumble. Look closely.
Also, we can't assume a tumble just because the bullet ends up backwards. When the bullet stops, and the gel grabs it, and it rebounds a bit, sometimes it ends up backwards. Without a tumble.
I’ve got some old hydrashok in 45auto. I remember it was some spice stuff in my performance center shield.
Nice
@@ToolsandTargetsfunny thing is I wouldn’t bought it because of Tremors.
Hey tools, i was wondering if you could file down a cci mini mag flat and have it around 29gr to put up against the .22 punch. i believe the only reason the punch penetrates so well is due to the flat nose and shortness of the bullet when they do tumble. id do it myself but i dont have any jelly.
Federal HST for the win.
Makes sense… fleece is most likely made out of polyester and denim is cotton. So the fabric of the sweater has melted.
Mhmm. It's a lot easier to clean out of the gel when it does get pushed out though. Comes out in one crispy little crumb.
@@ToolsandTargetsYup plastic
Since there wasn’t as much expansion out of the Canik, do you think maybe that disruption could have been some tumbling? I’m not really that experienced personally with gel tests so I don’t know exactly what to look for as far as what tumbling looks like.
Definitely could have been.
How would you compare the old Federal Hydra shok with the newer HST, for a 9 mm or 357 ?
Love all your test. Have you done any 5.7?
Appreciate that. I have done a few. I got some more planned.😎👊
I think I have a few boxes of these in my 9mm stock. How do you think these would fair in a Ruger PC 9 carbine that has a glock mag adapter. (I use glock mags). I also just got some Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ to try out in it for this weekend. Love your vids brother. 👍
Probably would be a great round in that. I probably have enough left to add em to my carbine test pile. Appreciate you!😎👊
Great test , good job. Great performance.
Thank you sir. Appreciate you!😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets Your welcome, and your hard work is appreciated too. 👍👍👍
They work fine just not my cup of tea.. I've seen jacket separation with the 45 ACP load and I hit a solid concrete block with a 40 S&W Hydra shok once and it basically splattered lol still not a bad load but if I'm gonna pay premium price I want HST, Gold dots or Hornady