I can see Bruce casually saying. "Well, it appears we found our max load, maybe dial it back half a grain." With the bolt firmly lodged in his eye socket and missing a few fingers.
Great video Gavin! As someone who has shot 6GT in comp but now shoots it in my night rig, getting max velocity without over pressure is the goal. Thanks to Gordon's I have found 37.0 GR of VV N550 with Hornady brass and #41 Primers gets a 103 ELD-X to ~3100 FPS out a 20" tube consistently and reliably. Man does it hit pigs and coyotes here in Texas hard.
I shoot a lot of 6 GT and I always use Alpha brass these days for it. 6GT is my favorite cartridge because of how efficient it is and how it almost hits 6 Creedmoor velocities with less powder. Your results don’t surprise me too much because Alpha definitely feels like it can take punishment. I’ve reloaded mine at least a dozen times so far and it still looks and feels like almost new. In the end it was fun to see how high you were able to push the 6GT.
I've always felt that 6mm CM has too tall of a propellant column, just like .243 Win does, but CM has better shoulder angle and placement for sure. 6x47 and 6GT are more ideal for the projectile sizes relative to the powder column, both very efficient and complete-burners.
I am just starting to use some Alpha brass, so I can't really comment on it. But, I have used 3 different BAT HR actions. I have noticed that they hide pressure very well. Whenever I start seeing pressures signs with one of those 3 rifles, velocities are very high. Therefore pressures are too high. I have had to learn to modify my load tuning method. This was a great video with interesting information. Thanks for sharing.
Looks right in line with what I've seen in 3 of my 4 GT's. Also using alpha brass. Max velocity was 3147 then I backed down to 2808. Thanks for sharing your info!!
These shows are really interesting. What i´d like to see is the same thing done with a really old bottle neck cartridge. Like for instance the old 6.5x55 Swede that originates in 1894. That would be really interesting to see, what first up can be had out of such an old cartridge and second how it behaves when pushed.
I bet a video about jumping/light touching/ jamming the lands would be received well. Running them through your pressure test barrel and a chronograph would be interesting.
Love the video. Absolutely fascinating. The sound being just slightly off for me is driving me nuts. I lip read while listening to make sure I don't miss anything. Must just be my playback of the video.
It may not be the most glamorous of pressure testing but I'd like to see some pistol cases pushed to their limit, like how much of a difference is +P really?
The question is what can the gun take and does the barrel fully support the case head. Pistol brass can be loaded to pressures that will permanently disassemble most pistols. On the flip side a Freedom Arms Model 83 in say 357 magnum can be loaded to the point of case failure.
I have found Alpha to show false pressure signs on first firing. Even loading down 3 tenths of a grain compared to Lapua . This is in my 6 BRA . Great test you guys
This is great! I've got everything now for my 6gt build besides the stock. Can't wait to shoot this cartridge for myself. Side note, per all the content available online, I'll be shooting the 105 hybrids with Alpha brass as well. I'll be testing the Fed gm205m, and CCI 450 primers. I'll also be testing Varget, H4350, and SW Precision.
No matter how many times you say don’t do this at home, the only thing half your audience heard was, Alpha brass can safely be loaded way over SAMMI pressure.
There's is no need to get 25 feet per second faster and take you chances for a failure for what? It's always better just to get you a decent loaded round.
@@Moraprecisionreloader every rifle and brass combo is different. But thats why we load test. Some loads i have pressure signs before i even hit book max. others im 2 grains over book max and no signs. Im generally chasing the best load by speed, sd, and node size. If that is under book max then cool. If it happens to be over book max, then im ok with that also as long as it not showing pressure signs.
I've been using a PressureTrace for years, since they first came out. Set up is key, low cost, quick to install, confidence in knowing where you are in the loading. This with a Oehler 35P chronograph one is set to begin making very accurate, precise ammunition. Your set-up is trick to be sure, there are alternatives though.
I have a GAP rifle in 6GT. Amazingly accurate but I had something weird happen. Handloads using Alpha Brass, Berger 105's, and Varget. Doing load development, I had heavy bolt lift and ejector swipes at 32gr. I got in touch with Alpha and they told me to keep going up to 34gr Varget which I did. Anything above and below 32gr charge weight did just fine. For some reason, the 32gr Varget charge weight had a weird node where it showed pressure signs.
Gordon's Reloading Tool has 6mm GT and the pressures are close to your Measured presssure How is your correction factor determined ? Great job BTW. Very Interesting
While you have the equipment already set up. How much of a difference does rifling or twist rate affect pressure. And what kind of clearance is there between projectiles, rifling, and projectile material. Does lead core swell more than solid. How much pressure bleeds by. Possible two pressure points...one in current location and one further down the barrel.
Would like to see several common loads, as published in reloading manuals …. cartridge/bullet/powder/charge combinations tested to see how they compare to measured data.
@ 1:30, yep that is why my reamer maker sent me the drawing of the chamber and some load info. Message is, buy your own reamer that meets your needs and let your gunsmith use it. It's about $300 a reamer Usd so not expensive and gives you ultimate control on the rifle setup, imo it is the most important part the chamber and how it matches the brass you use can greatly decrease brass prep time.
Trying to follow along, but hitting several data point problems. Is the Alpha case capacity shown in fired (unresized) or new cases? Quickload does have a 6 GT cartridge listing, but the case volume is in the 46.2 grain level. In order to use a simulation properly the user has to verify all component data like bullet length, case volume, boattail dimensions, case length after fired, etc., and not just accept the defaults from the simulation data files. At the overall length for cartridge (2.530") and barrel (24") in Hodgdon listing, and default 107 bullet length, the pressure simulated is 64565 psi and velocity 2924 fps at the 34.0 grains of Varget listed. So a bit higher pressure than Hodgdon declares and about 100 fps less velocity. If the case volume shown is new brass, then the fired volume is likely to be about 1.0 to 1.2 grains of H2O more. That would bring the simulation pressure down to 61306 and velocity down to 2895 fps. Adding the 4" of extra barrel the simulation indicates 3011 fps, and 2986 fps respectively. That would nearly equal the real velocity seen (2903 fps). Assuming the real case capacity is 43.3 grains of H2O we could then estimate that Quickload (QL) is overestimating the pressures by about 4% while estimating velocities very accurately at this one propellant charge. Now comparing the Hodgdon start data in the same manner we find the 30.6 grain charge simulates at 45815 psi and 2645 fps velocity. Somewhat lower pressure that the Hodgdon data suggest 48200 psi and 2679 fps velocity, about a 5% difference in the pressure and in the reverse direction. Since the start charge was not tested we have lost basic validation to the Hodgdon data. Secondly since your test showed 2903 fps with a longer barrel we have an additional problem in validation and calibration of your pressure reading estimates. Additional errors is projectile weight and length both projectile and cartridge OAL. So the big question is why your rig develops less velocity with a longer barrel than Hodgdon's barrel? Substituting the Berger 105 Hybrid at the same COAL as the Sierra 107 would result is a pressure decrease of 900 psi and velocity increase of 18 fps approx.
Great video! I love the scientific approach to load development. I'm really curious to how these high pressures affect percentage of powder burned and the Std Dev and ES as well as accuracy. Given the data you collected, you could also create a cartridge data file for QuickLoad.
Would love to see the bolt face, primers, and case head of the max loads y’all tested. Was there any damage done to the bolt? Would love a pressure test on the PRCW running N555 and Berger 180s. A lot of F class shooters are running that combination these days.
Familiarity does breed contempt! However, after a lifetime of observing actions, cases, and inspection of intentionally destroyed actions, you get. Pretty good feel of when you’re on the edge. Beyond the levels we have taken these - a test rail and steel box with remote firing are added to take things to failure.
Very cool! I have been playing with Quick load a bunch this year while doing load development. One big question we always have is what to use for initial pressure when say .050 off of jam bullet seat.
The recoil has got to be crazy. I was shooting 34gr of varget with 109s. Had heavy bolt lift every so often. Backed down to 32.8gr. Less recoil, still groups nice. That high of pressure, there's got to be ejector swipe. Little brass shavings getting down in there and stopping your action from working right.
Some 6.5prc loads I’ve concocted are wicked….95gr v max over 57.5gr h4350 got me 3666fps and was too hot honestly so I backed down a tad but man what power when 1 impacts a jug anywhere inside 500yrds which is all I got to shoot..130gr tmk h4350 3220fps and just as wicked. Dug into 3/4” mild@200 to the point of bulging and my baby bear soup load…156ex hunters just done this wk run 2840fps retumbo all from carbon waypoint with over 600rds fired now. Love loadin,testin, and hikin mountains with rifles my whole life.
That was a very revealing episode. It must be stated Varget is a very forgiving powder that will gradually build pressure and even it went crazy at the upper end of the pressure curve. I would like to see a slightly faster powder( H4895) and slower powder ( H4350) to see their pressure curves. I would also like a barrel/projectile test. Take your existing 107 and load it to maximum book pressure and fire 100 rounds. Inspect the bore for copper. Clean barrel like Cortina does then step up the load to creedmoor velocity, fire 100 rounds and reinspect for copper deposits. Then make your Banzai load and check for copper. I'm pretty sure these test have been done, if not purposely then accidentally. I'm interested to see if this is a major reason high volume shooters go down on pressure.
@@Patrick-xd8jv Lol yes I know it’s been done and it has been accused of being flawed by a top f class action manufacture whom I will not name who thinks the PRCW is at 78,000psi pressure at 2900fps with that powder/bullet combo which is why it’d be nice to see another test done to confirm the testing they did is accurate.
@@noahburleson6112 I trust their equipment more than this. I have run my .284 at 2830 with 13 firings on the brass and the primer pockets are still tight. I’m building a 7-6.5 for next season and have no concerns. There are a few FClass guys running 3k++. I’m betting that they are in the 70’s
Please do more of this! With a range of hodgdon ppwders in different cartridges 3006, the wby cartridges (suspect alot of them are liaded to 75k esp barnes data)
Me puedes decir del vuelo libre y de cuánto surcos tiene ei Canon de pruebas . Para resolver este problema de presión . Tenemos que construí un nuevo cañon con ciertas modificaciones para un correcto funcionamiento.mi saludos amigo
Would be interesting to see 6.5x55 vs 6.5 creed, Euro data has maximum pressure at around 55,000 psi for the sweede versus the 62,000 psi for the 6.5 Creedmoor with the sweede having around 11% more case capacity and potential to produce much higher velocities. Ammunition companies have limited the 6.5x55’s ballistic performance presumably to protect shooters of vintage rifles.
I have a question. Would a solid copper bullet if the same weight and caliber have a better bc? So 105 solid copper vs 105 berger? So length vs sectional density? I assume you would have to design the rifle around it aka longer chamber and faster spin rate.
I appreciate you and your channel. everything you do. however, let me be the first to say... fornicate that 6gt. why? what did it do the 6br and offshoots do? or... 6xc... or 6x47... or 6creed. which.. don't get me started on the creedmoor/hornady and the "marketing". Regardless, walk it back with the same barrel length; run 6creed. Purely speculatory. However, the notion of brass endurance and the display of documentation are all commendable.
This might be a strange cartridge to test but I'm interested in seeing how fast you could push something like 300 blackout supersonic loads. It would be a cool concept if you could get to .308 velocities with a 300 blackout. Bullet weight would be an interesting choice but maybe like a 125 or 130 grain bullet. I really don't think you would be able to get to .308 speeds but who knows that.308 to 300 win mag comparison was pretty crazy!
When I reload my 30-06 rounds I do it on a single stage and and clean my brass again after resizing... How do you remove the case lube after reloading 5.56 on a progressive press? I watched your video when you guys reloaded the 40,000 but you guys never went in depth about how you removed the case lube from the finished rounds... Can you guys do a video on that?
This is the kind of thing that would interest me as a young engineer but after 2 decades of doing this kind of thing as my work, i prefer the "real gunsmith" method of measuring case head expansion, its just simply more practical and to the point of what really matters.
Yea if I had the money, I would buy a pressure sensor, but it's a little dear for something that is not needed if you just shoot a little slower. Basically I can't see it picking up much than 50ftps at max, good bit of kit but quite a lot of investment to see how far extra you can push, when you can get good results keeping pressures in the green zone.
I would like to see how strain gages compare to the piezo pressure sensor. SG is non destructive, no hole drilled in the barrel. I'd mount 2 strain gages circumferentially in a half bridge and a separate barrel temperature reading for correction. Some math to convert strain to pressure pr/t=Ee. P=Eet/r
What I noticed is that the pressure data vs the rest seems out of sync - so something tells me that either the pressure test equipment has not measured consistently or someone screwed up the numbers... with the speeds probably the most accurate data it is still very impressive!
Gavin, I'm waiting on MPA building me a custom PMR custom match rifle in 6 GT. I have 200 new cases of Alpha brass, I have loaded the first 100 using some CFE223 I already have @ 33gr with Hornady 105 HPBT just to fireform the brass and break in the rifle. I have since gotten some Varget and the Berger 105gr hybrid targets. I plan on shooting the Berger 105's long term. What load would you start with using the other new Alpha brass and the Bergers with Varget? Thanks for any help you can give me!
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE 222 STEP IT UP ! I FEEL LIKE THERE'S POTENTIAL . IS THERE A 222 MAG ? USING 55 GRAIN TO 80 GRAIN . I HAVE 222 RUGAR , AT 130 YARDS 55 GRAIN , GROOMING 5MM . I KNOW I CAN DO BETTER . FROM AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺
My 26 inch, 5r, 7.5t pushes 109 bergers ah 3018 at 34.0 gr varget. 2950 is a better accuracy velocity out of every barrel i know folks shooting 6gt see as the fastest. Basically, it seems, break in your barrel with 100 rounds or so. Then drop charge to get 2950 and youll have more accuracy than most humans can beat
Come on guys you got to get that pressure sensor right in the barrel forget that ring thing you put on it can go back and do this to the 308 and get the pressure sensor in the barrel and take your corrected Factor readings out of the equation
Have you considered comparing other brands of brass to compare results. Not saying you have to take the pressures so high. Use this data found to compare the safety margin of other brands to this Alpha brass.
Additionally, it would be interesting to cut that test barrel down to 26 and repeat the test. I suspect you are losing velocity with extra 2 inches of barrel.
You need to do a brass comparison video. You can't just say, "Alpha brass isn't like originally brass." What does that even mean? How does it compare to Lapua (for example)?
Our OCD brass is much stronger than any other brass in the market If they did a brass test at these pressures they would have catastrophic failure. We have done these tests in house. Bruce mentions what happened to 6.5 PRC brass in the Video at lower pressures.
So.....for the extra 20k in pressure you got another 200fps? This is so negligible in PRS comp.........can't think of a time when I was shooting 6BR and missed but would have hit with a 6creed. Just sayin'.........good info though.......nice to know the margin of safety the brass can take.
The real kicker is anything this is compared to can also be pushed over pressure... so its kind of pointless. Just because you can push a 7.62x39 to 2750fps with 123gr doesn't mean you should regularly for example. Although that velocity gain brings that into a new realm when comparing it to other things. Just get the cartridge that can accommodate your needs without going crazy.
As a handloader of 32 years, I’m not sure this is a good video to throw out there to our less studied and less experienced handloaders (including me)! Love your channel though!
I agree !! I have 60yrs experience & this is ridiculously dangerous ! Some newbie reloader buys similar products and tries turning his 6gt into a 240wby thinking they can do it too . I'm happy everything turned out well , but why push safety limits that SAAMI sets ?? If you want crazy high pressures like with the 277 fury , go to the steel reinforced case head . Want more speed use a bigger case , it may cost more powder but save your life ! Enjoy reloading & be safe !
@@GuyGooding-q9o if you are doing visible pressure check signs it isn't dangerous. As you should always do with any reloading under saami spec. when developing any load. The brass don't lie. If you don't know what those signs of the brass look like with over pressure you should stay away from any reloading. I do agree with your point however about moving up to a different cartridge case capacity if you want to go faster with standard components though for the normal person. As with all reloading you should always start on the low side of load data and work your way up towards max observing pressure signs for over pressure.
@@jjmckay6man1 yes Mr.Mckay I watch closely for visible pressure signs, use my digital calipers & keep a close eye on my chronograph to judge load pressure. That's why after 60 years & 10s of thousands of loaded rounds later I have yet to experience a ruptured primer. Reloading is a rewarding part of the shooting sports & needs to be enjoyed with respect for the potential dangers it can present. Good luck and good shooting . Cheers
I can see Bruce casually saying. "Well, it appears we found our max load, maybe dial it back half a grain." With the bolt firmly lodged in his eye socket and missing a few fingers.
lol 😂
Mustache helps keep a stiff upper lip.
Great video Gavin! As someone who has shot 6GT in comp but now shoots it in my night rig, getting max velocity without over pressure is the goal. Thanks to Gordon's I have found 37.0 GR of VV N550 with Hornady brass and #41 Primers gets a 103 ELD-X to ~3100 FPS out a 20" tube consistently and reliably. Man does it hit pigs and coyotes here in Texas hard.
Love these in depth technical dives! Greetings from South Africa!
Thank you! Glad you are enjoying the videos!
I shoot a lot of 6 GT and I always use Alpha brass these days for it. 6GT is my favorite cartridge because of how efficient it is and how it almost hits 6 Creedmoor velocities with less powder. Your results don’t surprise me too much because Alpha definitely feels like it can take punishment. I’ve reloaded mine at least a dozen times so far and it still looks and feels like almost new. In the end it was fun to see how high you were able to push the 6GT.
Alpha makes great brass!
I've always felt that 6mm CM has too tall of a propellant column, just like .243 Win does, but CM has better shoulder angle and placement for sure.
6x47 and 6GT are more ideal for the projectile sizes relative to the powder column, both very efficient and complete-burners.
Worthwhile discussion with real-world tests...Hammerhead action, alpha brass, and 6gt chambering. Excellent content.
What a surprise to see this come up next!!! It was one I have really wanted to see and as always thank you!
Love the 6GT content! Ive been going back and forth on getting a replacement barrel in 6GT. So, I'm trying to absord as much info as possible!
Glad it’s helpful!
Gavin, you sure have come a long way from shooting a swimming pool. I am thoroughly impressed by you young man! 👍🏻👍🏻
Awesome.Melissa helped me a time or 2 on the range. Great content dude showing behind the curtain of ballistic testing
Really found this and the 308 video very practical and interesting. Thanks Gavin!
I am just starting to use some Alpha brass, so I can't really comment on it. But, I have used 3 different BAT HR actions. I have noticed that they hide pressure very well. Whenever I start seeing pressures signs with one of those 3 rifles, velocities are very high. Therefore pressures are too high. I have had to learn to modify my load tuning method. This was a great video with interesting information. Thanks for sharing.
Looks right in line with what I've seen in 3 of my 4 GT's. Also using alpha brass. Max velocity was 3147 then I backed down to 2808.
Thanks for sharing your info!!
These shows are really interesting.
What i´d like to see is the same thing done with a really old bottle neck cartridge. Like for instance the old 6.5x55 Swede that originates in 1894.
That would be really interesting to see, what first up can be had out of such an old cartridge and second how it behaves when pushed.
I bet a video about jumping/light touching/ jamming the lands would be received well. Running them through your pressure test barrel and a chronograph would be interesting.
Neat test... I'd like to see it done with 223/5.56 @ 223AI run up to 22-250/224 Valkyrie velocities
Pressure test on a brand new barrel over the span of 200 rounds to see where a barrel settles or breaks in
Love the video. Absolutely fascinating. The sound being just slightly off for me is driving me nuts. I lip read while listening to make sure I don't miss anything. Must just be my playback of the video.
Where does he get all those wonderful toys....Bruce Wayne of the shooting world!
Ultimate reloader try your 280 ai next vs 7 rem mag with vv n560
It may not be the most glamorous of pressure testing but I'd like to see some pistol cases pushed to their limit, like how much of a difference is +P really?
Or +P+, +P++, +P+++?
The question is what can the gun take and does the barrel fully support the case head. Pistol brass can be loaded to pressures that will permanently disassemble most pistols. On the flip side a Freedom Arms Model 83 in say 357 magnum can be loaded to the point of case failure.
I have found Alpha to show false pressure signs on first firing. Even loading down 3 tenths of a grain compared to Lapua . This is in my 6 BRA . Great test you guys
I just acquired a rifle in 6mm xc. Bat Machine action and Nightforce scope. I love the 6mm chamberings.
This is great! I've got everything now for my 6gt build besides the stock. Can't wait to shoot this cartridge for myself. Side note, per all the content available online, I'll be shooting the 105 hybrids with Alpha brass as well. I'll be testing the Fed gm205m, and CCI 450 primers. I'll also be testing Varget, H4350, and SW Precision.
No matter how many times you say don’t do this at home, the only thing half your audience heard was, Alpha brass can safely be loaded way over SAMMI pressure.
most brass can be safely loaded beyond saami pressure. the rifle will tell you when it starts getting iffy.
There's is no need to get 25 feet per second faster and take you chances for a failure for what?
It's always better just to get you a decent loaded round.
@@Moraprecisionreloader every rifle and brass combo is different. But thats why we load test. Some loads i have pressure signs before i even hit book max. others im 2 grains over book max and no signs. Im generally chasing the best load by speed, sd, and node size. If that is under book max then cool. If it happens to be over book max, then im ok with that also as long as it not showing pressure signs.
Nice to see you guys are actually using pressure transducer instead of guestiments from Q/L
I've been using a PressureTrace for years, since they first came out. Set up is key, low cost, quick to install, confidence in knowing where you are in the loading. This with a Oehler 35P chronograph one is set to begin making very accurate, precise ammunition. Your set-up is trick to be sure, there are alternatives though.
I have a GAP rifle in 6GT. Amazingly accurate but I had something weird happen. Handloads using Alpha Brass, Berger 105's, and Varget. Doing load development, I had heavy bolt lift and ejector swipes at 32gr. I got in touch with Alpha and they told me to keep going up to 34gr Varget which I did. Anything above and below 32gr charge weight did just fine. For some reason, the 32gr Varget charge weight had a weird node where it showed pressure signs.
The "rabbit hole" just got deepend. Very interesting.
Gordon's Reloading Tool has 6mm GT and the pressures are close to your Measured presssure
How is your correction factor determined ?
Great job BTW. Very Interesting
While you have the equipment already set up. How much of a difference does rifling or twist rate affect pressure. And what kind of clearance is there between projectiles, rifling, and projectile material. Does lead core swell more than solid. How much pressure bleeds by.
Possible two pressure points...one in current location and one further down the barrel.
Do 6.5 creed video with alpha srp brass vs starline srp brass!! That would be a hit!!!
Would like to see several common loads, as published in reloading manuals …. cartridge/bullet/powder/charge combinations tested to see how they compare to measured data.
Should test the pressure differential between muzzle devices
The secondary pressure curve from a traditional baffle style suppressor would be interesting to see.
@ 1:30, yep that is why my reamer maker sent me the drawing of the chamber and some load info. Message is, buy your own reamer that meets your needs and let your gunsmith use it.
It's about $300 a reamer Usd so not expensive and gives you ultimate control on the rifle setup, imo it is the most important part the chamber and how it matches the brass you use can greatly decrease brass prep time.
Trying to follow along, but hitting several data point problems. Is the Alpha case capacity shown in fired (unresized) or new cases? Quickload does have a 6 GT cartridge listing, but the case volume is in the 46.2 grain level. In order to use a simulation properly the user has to verify all component data like bullet length, case volume, boattail dimensions, case length after fired, etc., and not just accept the defaults from the simulation data files. At the overall length for cartridge (2.530") and barrel (24") in Hodgdon listing, and default 107 bullet length, the pressure simulated is 64565 psi and velocity 2924 fps at the 34.0 grains of Varget listed. So a bit higher pressure than Hodgdon declares and about 100 fps less velocity. If the case volume shown is new brass, then the fired volume is likely to be about 1.0 to 1.2 grains of H2O more. That would bring the simulation pressure down to 61306 and velocity down to 2895 fps. Adding the 4" of extra barrel the simulation indicates 3011 fps, and 2986 fps respectively. That would nearly equal the real velocity seen (2903 fps). Assuming the real case capacity is 43.3 grains of H2O we could then estimate that Quickload (QL) is overestimating the pressures by about 4% while estimating velocities very accurately at this one propellant charge. Now comparing the Hodgdon start data in the same manner we find the 30.6 grain charge simulates at 45815 psi and 2645 fps velocity. Somewhat lower pressure that the Hodgdon data suggest 48200 psi and 2679 fps velocity, about a 5% difference in the pressure and in the reverse direction. Since the start charge was not tested we have lost basic validation to the Hodgdon data. Secondly since your test showed 2903 fps with a longer barrel we have an additional problem in validation and calibration of your pressure reading estimates. Additional errors is projectile weight and length both projectile and cartridge OAL. So the big question is why your rig develops less velocity with a longer barrel than Hodgdon's barrel? Substituting the Berger 105 Hybrid at the same COAL as the Sierra 107 would result is a pressure decrease of 900 psi and velocity increase of 18 fps approx.
Great video! I love the scientific approach to load development. I'm really curious to how these high pressures affect percentage of powder burned and the Std Dev and ES as well as accuracy. Given the data you collected, you could also create a cartridge data file for QuickLoad.
Would love to see the bolt face, primers, and case head of the max loads y’all tested. Was there any damage done to the bolt? Would love a pressure test on the PRCW running N555 and Berger 180s. A lot of F class shooters are running that combination these days.
Hi gavin
Awesome vid
Can u maybe do a full video on using quick load from start to end
Familiarity does breed contempt!
However, after a lifetime of observing actions, cases, and inspection of intentionally destroyed actions, you get. Pretty good feel of when you’re on the edge.
Beyond the levels we have taken these - a test rail and steel box with remote firing are added to take things to failure.
Very cool! I have been playing with Quick load a bunch this year while doing load development. One big question we always have is what to use for initial pressure when say .050 off of jam bullet seat.
The recoil has got to be crazy. I was shooting 34gr of varget with 109s. Had heavy bolt lift every so often. Backed down to 32.8gr. Less recoil, still groups nice.
That high of pressure, there's got to be ejector swipe. Little brass shavings getting down in there and stopping your action from working right.
Some 6.5prc loads I’ve concocted are wicked….95gr v max over 57.5gr h4350 got me 3666fps and was too hot honestly so I backed down a tad but man what power when 1 impacts a jug anywhere inside 500yrds which is all I got to shoot..130gr tmk h4350 3220fps and just as wicked. Dug into 3/4” mild@200 to the point of bulging and my baby bear soup load…156ex hunters just done this wk run 2840fps retumbo all from carbon waypoint with over 600rds fired now. Love loadin,testin, and hikin mountains with rifles my whole life.
That was a very revealing episode. It must be stated Varget is a very forgiving powder that will gradually build pressure and even it went crazy at the upper end of the pressure curve. I would like to see a slightly faster powder( H4895) and slower powder ( H4350) to see their pressure curves. I would also like a barrel/projectile test. Take your existing 107 and load it to maximum book pressure and fire 100 rounds. Inspect the bore for copper. Clean barrel like Cortina does then step up the load to creedmoor velocity, fire 100 rounds and reinspect for copper deposits. Then make your Banzai load and check for copper. I'm pretty sure these test have been done, if not purposely then accidentally. I'm interested to see if this is a major reason high volume shooters go down on pressure.
Awesome work! Would be super cool to see this same test with the 7PRCW n555 and 180 hybrids!!
It’s already been done
@@Patrick-xd8jv Lol yes I know it’s been done and it has been accused of being flawed by a top f class action manufacture whom I will not name who thinks the PRCW is at 78,000psi pressure at 2900fps with that powder/bullet combo which is why it’d be nice to see another test done to confirm the testing they did is accurate.
@@noahburleson6112 I trust their equipment more than this. I have run my .284 at 2830 with 13 firings on the brass and the primer pockets are still tight. I’m building a 7-6.5 for next season and have no concerns. There are a few FClass guys running 3k++. I’m betting that they are in the 70’s
@@Patrick-xd8jv I agree with you, we are on the same page here. I have 3, 7-6.5’s (f class rifles) long story… just interested in seeing more testing.
Please do more of this! With a range of hodgdon ppwders in different cartridges
3006, the wby cartridges (suspect alot of them are liaded to 75k esp barnes data)
grt has a 6gt case and i simulate those loads and it was pretty close to the speeds and pressures that you measured
Good stuff. Thank you.
O cool I’m gonna try this load at my next prs match XD
Me puedes decir del vuelo libre y de cuánto surcos tiene ei Canon de pruebas . Para resolver este problema de presión . Tenemos que construí un nuevo cañon con ciertas modificaciones para un correcto funcionamiento.mi saludos amigo
Talk about tap dancing on a landmine... 1: How does going way over limits effect barrel life? 2: Is there any pick up in accuracy?
Would be interesting to see 6.5x55 vs 6.5 creed, Euro data has maximum pressure at around 55,000 psi for the sweede versus the 62,000 psi for the 6.5 Creedmoor with the sweede having around 11% more case capacity and potential to produce much higher velocities. Ammunition companies have limited the 6.5x55’s ballistic performance presumably to protect shooters of vintage rifles.
I'm surprised you weren't behind plexiglass when firing those!
Question - What was the barrel length? Great Show.
28"
Run your 6GT data through QuickLoad an see if it has comparable correlation with your.308 data.
I have a question. Would a solid copper bullet if the same weight and caliber have a better bc? So 105 solid copper vs 105 berger? So length vs sectional density? I assume you would have to design the rifle around it aka longer chamber and faster spin rate.
I appreciate you and your channel. everything you do. however, let me be the first to say... fornicate that 6gt. why? what did it do the 6br and offshoots do? or... 6xc... or 6x47... or 6creed. which.. don't get me started on the creedmoor/hornady and the "marketing". Regardless, walk it back with the same barrel length; run 6creed. Purely speculatory. However, the notion of brass endurance and the display of documentation are all commendable.
This might be a strange cartridge to test but I'm interested in seeing how fast you could push something like 300 blackout supersonic loads. It would be a cool concept if you could get to .308 velocities with a 300 blackout. Bullet weight would be an interesting choice but maybe like a 125 or 130 grain bullet. I really don't think you would be able to get to .308 speeds but who knows that.308 to 300 win mag comparison was pretty crazy!
When I reload my 30-06 rounds I do it on a single stage and and clean my brass again after resizing...
How do you remove the case lube after reloading 5.56 on a progressive press? I watched your video when you guys reloaded the 40,000 but you guys never went in depth about how you removed the case lube from the finished rounds... Can you guys do a video on that?
Ok now do the same test with the 6mm creedmoor same barrel length powder bullets brass
This is the kind of thing that would interest me as a young engineer but after 2 decades of doing this kind of thing as my work, i prefer the "real gunsmith" method of measuring case head expansion, its just simply more practical and to the point of what really matters.
Yea if I had the money, I would buy a pressure sensor, but it's a little dear for something that is not needed if you just shoot a little slower.
Basically I can't see it picking up much than 50ftps at max, good bit of kit but quite a lot of investment to see how far extra you can push, when you can get good results keeping pressures in the green zone.
Please get them to make some 5.56 cases, so you can do a video on those!
I would like to see how strain gages compare to the piezo pressure sensor. SG is non destructive, no hole drilled in the barrel. I'd mount 2 strain gages circumferentially in a half bridge and a separate barrel temperature reading for correction. Some math to convert strain to pressure pr/t=Ee. P=Eet/r
What I noticed is that the pressure data vs the rest seems out of sync - so something tells me that either the pressure test equipment has not measured consistently or someone screwed up the numbers... with the speeds probably the most accurate data it is still very impressive!
Gavin, I'm waiting on MPA building me a custom PMR custom match rifle in 6 GT. I have 200 new cases of Alpha brass, I have loaded the first 100 using some CFE223 I already have @ 33gr with Hornady 105 HPBT just to fireform the brass and break in the rifle. I have since gotten some Varget and the Berger 105gr hybrid targets. I plan on shooting the Berger 105's long term. What load would you start with using the other new Alpha brass and the Bergers with Varget? Thanks for any help you can give me!
Just curious why quickload over GRT ?
Will the alpha brass be able load full pressure 277 furry loads with out steel head?
Muy interesante el vídeo
Can you do this with 6mm arc?
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE 222 STEP IT UP !
I FEEL LIKE THERE'S POTENTIAL .
IS THERE A 222 MAG ?
USING 55 GRAIN TO 80 GRAIN .
I HAVE 222 RUGAR ,
AT 130 YARDS 55 GRAIN , GROOMING 5MM .
I KNOW I CAN DO BETTER .
FROM AUSTRALIA 🇦🇺
You should do a video for 7mm-08 ackley improved!
Or a 7mm SAW
My 26 inch, 5r, 7.5t pushes 109 bergers ah 3018 at 34.0 gr varget. 2950 is a better accuracy velocity out of every barrel i know folks shooting 6gt see as the fastest. Basically, it seems, break in your barrel with 100 rounds or so. Then drop charge to get 2950 and youll have more accuracy than most humans can beat
What do you think of 47 grains of varget pushing 175 smk to 2770 fps in 308 win. Lapua small primer is used.
My exact load for fn spr and dd5v3..h4350..superformance..n540. And few more all in that 47gr area
Correction..not fn spr..1:12 don’t like 75s as good as 68s..
Man I wish alpha made .284 brass
Interesting but you should have pushed the 6mm creedmoor as well and compared both sets of data.
Come on guys you got to get that pressure sensor right in the barrel forget that ring thing you put on it can go back and do this to the 308 and get the pressure sensor in the barrel and take your corrected Factor readings out of the equation
Would yall be willing to run this test with 6.5 creed?
Wish you would have included recoil data with each load just for giggles.
Would be really cool to see 6 arc bolt gun
Yesssss- here it is! ruclips.net/video/QYRw2S5BWCg/видео.htmlsi=Wrhh-sjAAZ-qBizh
@@Ultimatereloader I'd love to see how far you can push the cartridge. Can it become near a 6gt or even 6 creed?
Have you considered comparing other brands of brass to compare results. Not saying you have to take the pressures so high.
Use this data found to compare the safety margin of other brands to this Alpha brass.
Additionally, it would be interesting to cut that test barrel down to 26 and repeat the test. I suspect you are losing velocity with extra 2 inches of barrel.
You need to do a brass comparison video. You can't just say, "Alpha brass isn't like originally brass." What does that even mean? How does it compare to Lapua (for example)?
Our OCD brass is much stronger than any other brass in the market If they did a brass test at these pressures they would have catastrophic failure. We have done these tests in house. Bruce mentions what happened to 6.5 PRC brass in the Video at lower pressures.
Make a hypersonic (mach 5) load
Push 7 rem mag but 190 grn bullets
do it again after 300 rounds on the barrel
6gt can sling a 55gr bullet faster than 22-250 🎉
N 550
So.....for the extra 20k in pressure you got another 200fps? This is so negligible in PRS comp.........can't think of a time when I was shooting 6BR and missed but would have hit with a 6creed. Just sayin'.........good info though.......nice to know the margin of safety the brass can take.
The real kicker is anything this is compared to can also be pushed over pressure... so its kind of pointless. Just because you can push a 7.62x39 to 2750fps with 123gr doesn't mean you should regularly for example. Although that velocity gain brings that into a new realm when comparing it to other things. Just get the cartridge that can accommodate your needs without going crazy.
Get a bigger case your going to hurt someone
No one runs a 28"...
So your not firing remotely from a safe location.
No need with BAT actions.
@@conservativesniperhunter7439 I'll have to take your word for it. They didn't seam too worried about it. 👍🏽
Stop what you trying to do!!!!!! If you want 😊r
As a handloader of 32 years, I’m not sure this is a good video to throw out there to our less studied and less experienced handloaders (including me)!
Love your channel though!
I agree !! I have 60yrs experience & this is ridiculously dangerous ! Some newbie reloader buys similar products and tries turning his 6gt into a 240wby thinking they can do it too . I'm happy everything turned out well , but why push safety limits that SAAMI sets ?? If you want crazy high pressures like with the 277 fury , go to the steel reinforced case head . Want more speed use a bigger case , it may cost more powder but save your life ! Enjoy reloading & be safe !
@@GuyGooding-q9o if you are doing visible pressure check signs it isn't dangerous. As you should always do with any reloading under saami spec. when developing any load. The brass don't lie. If you don't know what those signs of the brass look like with over pressure you should stay away from any reloading. I do agree with your point however about moving up to a different cartridge case capacity if you want to go faster with standard components though for the normal person. As with all reloading you should always start on the low side of load data and work your way up towards max observing pressure signs for over pressure.
@@jjmckay6man1 yes Mr.Mckay I watch closely for visible pressure signs, use my digital calipers & keep a close eye on my chronograph to judge load pressure. That's why after 60 years & 10s of thousands of loaded rounds later I have yet to experience a ruptured primer. Reloading is a rewarding part of the shooting sports & needs to be enjoyed with respect for the potential dangers it can present. Good luck and good shooting . Cheers
You’re giving stupid people bad ideas
stupid people come up with bad ideas on their own there are videos of it all over youtube lol.
@DougJohnson-g5f VV does very well in my 6GT