Apocalypse WOW! Pro-ject Debut PRO w/Pick It Pro (vs. Technics SL1210GR w/ Ortofon 2M Black)
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- This episode is brought to you by Roon:
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🎥 Camera: Olaf von Voss
🎬 Editor: John Darko
🕺🏻 Motion GFX: John Darko
💰 Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
Pro-Ject Debut Pro:
www.turntablelab.com/collecti...
Funk Firm Achromat for Technics SL-1200GR:
www.turntablelab.com/products...
0:00 Album recommendation
1:15 Scene set
6:45 We shall overcome
13:14 Active listening
21:15 Kling-Klang
PATREON: / johndarko ← music playlists can be found here
The PLURAL of 'VINYL' is 'VINYL' (not 'vinyls')...and yep, I misspelled "sprightly" in the video.
#turntables #vinyl #electronica
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**PLEASE READ CAREFULLY**
1) Want more info? The show notes are here: darko.audio/2021/09/a-short-film-about-the-pro-ject-debut-pro/
2) Polite comments that advance the conversation are most welcome (but no URLs, please)
3) All comments are moderated by a third party
Your comments about active listening with vinyl are spot on. Music stops being background music and you start listening to the music, and appreciating your hifi. Especially as you have to make sure you lift the tone arm when it gets to the end of the last track. Its why I find listening to vinyl much more relaxing to any other format.
why? they don´t work?relaxing? if one falls a sleep the stylus keeps wearing out endlessly for hours, i am a record listener and never stoped not even when i was hooked by cd´s ,at a certain point i can say that i have dozens of cds that i never saw the inlay paper, records still better but i bought a couple of new ones and i get disapointed, the hum inbetween tracks the noise already in a new record ,i´m refering to a new copy of joy division´s unknown pleasures and some years after i bought a still sealed with stickers new edition of the first lynyrd skynerd lp but inbetween tracks the noise was there ,not refering to the earth cable disconected and i thought ,maybe the stylus is bad and i played a early 80´s dexy´s midnight runners lp with older songs like geno and still perfect and it was played many,many,many times ,and to end, mechanical systems at the end of a record don´t interfer with the sound of the record
I feel as relaxed and appreciative about my Hi-Fi while listening music from CDs also. And also the music stops of being background with them. And if one cares about his music collection there is quite some ritual with CDs to (starting the player, opening the tray, taking the CD out from the box, blowing the dust of it with a little pair pump, putting it on the tray, sitting in the listening chair, closing the tray, wait for the reading of the CD, pressing play, switching on the pure direct function and immerse yourself in the music - at the beginning and vice versa at the end). So I think is something that has to do with listening music from physical formats in general rather than streaming or radio. The evolvement Darko speaks of very nicely (which I totally share).
I can relate to your approach but its just conditioning. Its a hobby so everyone should have his approach just so its not really an objective argument but a ritual you perform. Rituals are important part of life but you could develop one for digital listening just the same if you wanted to. Not that there is any need.
I just find that with data streaming, where I’m unable to see the source, I have a hard time believing that the music is for real. With CD and, especially vinyl, I am much more enabled to believe what I’m hearing. I must be able to see the source of the music!
Would love an episode on phono preamps - the market is saturated with choice.
I'm old so I was buying vinyl back in the seventies. It was a real event to put a new album on your turntable and take a first listen. Then there were all the sleeve art and notes. Really miss that.
I still do it, why shouldn't you?
I know what you mean. Miss it as well.
I'd be interested to hear a similar comparison of the Pro-Ject to your Rega Planar 2 with the Zu-upgraded Denon cartridge.
I’d still take the Technics, I love mine and gave up my LP12 for it.
I like the Technics a lot more, too.
You gave up a LINN LP 12 for a Pioneer?!
That’s awesome. Makes no sense whatsoever. Other then your LP 12 wasn’t setup at all…
"aluminium in europe and then aluminum in the US" 🤣
It didn't get old.
In Canada ours is an alloy of both.
That turntable includes an acrylic dust cover ("Perspex" in the UK). I was told that by my ex-girlfriend, Polyethylene Pam.
@@snowrang3r657 I KNEW it!
😂😂😂
Ah! Finally a turntable episode by Darko! 👌
Always looking forward to those, but they are so rare...
The aluminum comment killed me. 😂
Congratulations on 200k! Well deserved - great content, great attitude, excellent production quality! Keep it coming...
Excellent, wide and humble review, John. Thank you very much ;-)
Fab reviews thanks and keep those album recommends coming adds that little extra
Love your turntable and record collecting/buying videos. 👌 very well thought out video. I believe, THIS is exactly how you will inspire more people to get involved in this fun hobby.
Grats to the 200k! :-) keep on inspiring
Excellent video John. This is very probably the turntable I would upgrade to with it’s mix of good simple looks, build quality and of course excellent sound.
I really enjoyed this. Although now I feel like we might need a phono stage video! Thanks as always, and congrats on reaching 200k subs!
Great review. I like your channel for these reasons: seriousness, neutrality of brands, very good english speaking, cleanliness of your home (!), REAL interest in music and choices of product reviews. You are most likely in my age group and I surely appreciate listening to you. "Keep on struttin" as they say. Jack from Quebec
When you mentioned the album Leviathan I thought: BLIMEY Darko is listening to Mastodon!!! 😂
Great review John. Takes me back to the early 80's when I first got into higher end audio. Ah, the hours I spent setting up my turntable to be rewarded with a jaw dropping sound. Now you have me thinking should I treat myself to that Project turntable,it looks beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the recommendation, John, that album really is exceptional.
One of my favorite Darko videos. Love this video. Love the nice feature set and the simplicity of this table. I have a Pro-ject The Classic and it has been a real work horse. I would be glad to get another Pro-ject table if I needed to.
I went in to my local HiFi store to look at the Pro-Ject Debut Pro last week. I ended up ordering an X2 with the 2m Black cart. Arrives next week looking forward to it.
Man, thanks so much for the heads up on those albums. Awesome stuff.
When you mention an album, I quickly switch to my music app and listen. Make a note and BAM!
Thank you John for a great in depth review I have been following this turn table since its launch and your review is by far the most revealing. I already own a Pro ject carbon which I have upgraded with new plater , phone amp and new stylus . But the issues you raise with the technics are the same with my pro ject changing speed which becomes frustrating at times . I will be in vesting in the new Pro ject very soon . Keep up the reviews I never miss them and they have become a highlight of my weekends . Living France now I find it difficult to get reading matter that I understand but your RUclips channel makes up for that . Thank once again.
Great review. Great details. Very helpful.
Congratulations for this video ! Useful..
Dark thanks for this awesome demo. I have a similar setup at home with an Pioneer PLX-1000 and not being really satisfied. I today bought the project debut pro and it is a big improvement.
I got the Pro this week , its really awesome , what a sound and great looks , love it and i have after a long time goosebumps again , i think its the best turntable under the 1000 euro's , amazing
Thanks. I watched and listened carefully. I am keeping my Technics.
what model? : )
I love the music suggestions in your videos, especially the electronic/techno--on top of the already excellent audio discussion. I don't have any of these albums but I'm definitely checking them out over the next couple of days. Inspired me to pull out Dettinger's Intershop to put on the platter today!
Thanks for the album recommendations. I love ambient techno.
For years I was told I had to get a blank looking high end BELT driven table to get performance but in the end I actually sold my high end tables in favor of a vintage Technics SL-1200MKII (cost me the same as your pro-ject, with custom mat) for the very reason of pragmatics. Every aspect of turn table adjustment is not only available but is very clearly marked with detailed dials, making any adjustment accurate, intuitive and repeatable. It also has something the high end tables I sold didn't, a speed control and speed indicator. VERY useful thing to have for some. Don't know how flimsy the plastic is on your Technics but the plastic bits on mine feel like stone and have metal underneath. Not at all cheap. Same with the armature. Very sold. Never had the jankie lift drop problem either. I wish they still made tables like the old MKII. Apparently direct drive isn't inferior. It's all down to the general quality of build and design, as you insinuated.
BTW how do you not get (c) strikes playing bits of music like that?
Great comparison. Thank you for the great video.
Put the 2M Black cartridge on the Project. That seems like the ideal combo. Great video!
An interesting idea, which begs a question: in order to fairly compare the two turntables, wouldn't you have to use the same cartridge on each?
@@jerrytook7308 exactly
I have been on the tipping point of buying my first turntable and building a small but personal vinyl collection. This turntable and your review and comments have pushed me over the edge. I think I’ve found my product!
Thanks for sharing bro I'm going to check that out on my vinyl 👌
I am continually amazed that you can refrain from trying to compare to devices you have previously reviewed. I think it is great. Too many people idolize and mis-remember what they heard and your methods don't allow for that.
Great review John. Loved the deep explanation of why azimuth matters 🤣🤣. The cutting head moves at 45 degrees to vertical. 45 degrees one side is the left channel, 45 degrees the other side is the right channel. So if the azimuth is not correct, the deflection of the stylus will not match the cutting head’s original path and the output from the cartridge will be reduced in one channel more than the other. In the extreme case of the azimuth being set at 45 degrees, I know it’s impossible, you would only hear sound from one channel.
On materials for the arm, having two different materials in the tubes creates natural damping. The Linn Ittok is made with two alloy tubes which are not bonded together. The two tubes are different diameters, obviously, as one is inside the other, and therefore they have different resonant frequencies, hence when one attempts to resonate, the other naturally damps it. Using carbon fibre for the outer tube provides a slight weight advantage and it is stiff, however, part of me wonders if it isn’t also because it looks cool!
I remember watching the video you made on the TuneTots and how excited you were. Glad that you have that as your reference (?) setup.
The Spiritual Machines album is wonderful! Thank you for showing it, I am now going to start looking for more ambient techno on vinyl. I have a Project Debut Carbon Evo and love the minimalism of it. It hasn't got the same toggle, but a nice rocker switch that's tucked away on the bottom left underside of the plinth. Some people I show it to struggle to turn it on, which makes you feel like its really "your" machine, and only you know all its particular workings. Stuff like this is really important in Design, I think your comments were spot on!
Wonderful presentation of what makes vinyl so nice! And the Matthew Sweet reissue of Girlfriend is one of my favorite albums to own on vinyl.
Thanks so much for this. More of your experiences with music and the kit you review would be great
always love the music you share, especially the electronica.
I really appreciate, that you listening techno music on all components thru your videos. Also how you threat vinyl.
The vinyl recordings feel really threatened indeed
I've got an old planar 3 and as you talked about here and mentioned about your p2 in previous the 45/33 change is more than just a switch... But I love it! It's kind of genius in my eyes you really get to see how it works every time and you quickly get a handle on speedy technique
Brilliant, 'ignore the evangelists' is why I love your channel John. No agenda and an obvious passion for music, rather than gear. So many audiophile evangelists bang on about it being all about the music, when it clearly isn't. Top man you :)
Enjoy many of your posts. I'm an old man that mostly listens old man rock records. I have a number of vintage turntables; belt and dd, and enjoy them all. Additionally, I have a Project Debut Carbon Esprit - Beatles edition. Project puts out so many versions, I had a hard time figuring out where this fits in versus mine. In the end I realized it is higher up the food chain, but probably not enough to upgrade.
My current vintage turntable is a Yamaha P-850. Fully automatic.
Loved the camera shake when he punches his hand- the small things in life I suppose 😊
First of all, I love your channel Darko. I've blind tested a few turntables and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference between them if fitted with the same cartridge and tonearm, but this might be that I'm just getting old, to me its all about aesthetics and convenience when you reach a certain level.
Happy to give you my Pro-Ject for that Technics you have 🙂
What model is that?
I love my humble Philips 312 turntable made in 1978. It's lovely to look at. Easy to use. Has touch sensitive buttons for stop and speed control that are cool. It's compact in size without a huge footprint. And with the right cartridge, very high compliance, and a few tweaks, it really sings. Very engaging sound. Thanks for the conversation.
Ha !!! - as soon as I saw ’ Philips 312' , a picture of it popped into my mind ! I'd forgotten about those ! - we had one in the juniors in the assembly hall with a swish looking Philips amp with two round VU metres and a pair of big Philips Hi Fi International speakers near the ceiling in the corners - I miss the 1970's - look after that turntable !
I too have a Phillips 312 - I bought new in Jan. of 1978 and still have and use! (i never packed it away used it straight thru!) Not the best "audiophile" level - because of some "rumble". but mine has super quiet motor and the "312" has convenience features in spades! Instant speed change! Can adj speed anytime to want with knobs! Adj antio-skate with knob! up front snap toggle cueing! Touch controls with :LED lighting! (in 1978!) And a suspended patter & arm! And lifts arm at end and turns off platter!
John you brought me back to my first sound system which was an early 1960's dansette . We would just stare at the record player as it played . Very funny memory . Thank you .
I have never found VTA adjustment to be an issue on Technics SL series turntables. In fact the numbered/marked dial is a real bonus. In many, many thousands of plays, I've never had a single issue with the lid angle versus accessing the platter.
great review, thanks you, greetings from Chile -.-.
Thanks again for the album tips John. ‘Loom’ on Leviathan must sound amazing with the KEF KC62.
Just bought the Leviathan album you recommended, and ordered a friend starting out this Debut Pro based on this review. Thanks for your videos, keep them coming.
What a good friend
Thank you for the Fripp recommendation! Amazing record🤘
Opinions such as these make me lean + and + towards owning maybe 2 'tables -a belt drive and a DD- and enjoying the best of both worlds.
Great show here! I am looking at a similar Technics (with less expensive cartridge) and the Pro-ject Pro - comparing them - deciding which one to get (a coincidence) but in any case - this was excellent for me. Thanks!
That VC 118A album .. new for me .. but what an amazing album. Thanks for sharing .
I got the debute Pro and love it (and had a sl1200)
Best of both worlds for many people might be the design powerhouse Beogram 8000 with the amazing MMC 20CL. Extreme user-friendly features with good sonics. That sleek, unmistakable Jacob Jensen styling is a bonus.
The Technics plethora of features to assure exacting cartridge alignment, as well as cart substitution, make it ideal for those who want to experiment with multiple cartridges. And, since I attribute the pleasure or displeasure with vinyl to a cartridge’s characteristics, the ability to change out one cart for another in seconds not hours is important to me and it’s invited opportunity for discovery of carts which better satisfy, right now a Shure V15 type III/Jico SAS-B.
Great review again!👍
Another excellent presentation.
I had to leave my Pro- ject Debut II turntable when I left the UK for Belgium. Really wish I still had it. It was the glossy blue colour too, looked so good!
Hi John. Very nice review. I happen to have a pro-ject turntable. I am using it with a very simple rega brio and a pair of PCM speakers. I am quite happy with it. It is the only modern turntable I ever had. As a child, I used to mess around with my mother's turntable and records... I think it was a Pioneer. Something from the 80s or late 70s. Really not audiophile, the stylus was probably worn out... but quite robust and easy to use. And one thing that it had, it's that it would stop when the stylus reaches the end of the record, and then it would lift up it"s arm and go back to rest. I was quite found of this kind of automatic turntable. And the fact that the project does not stop at the end of the last tract, it is a little annoying, I found. Anyway, thanks for your videos, it is always a pleasure to listen your reviews and thoughts.
Great video! anyway looking forward to seeing your review on Chrod Anni!
I would pick the Technics for the strobe/speed light alone:)
I use the rega planer 3-24 heavily modified. With grado wood 2 cardridge I did noticed 50hz noise but I packed the motor in with Mu metal almost all 50hz is gone and it does sound great, I do love vinyl clean them and listen to them. With cd's I'm very carefull to buy if not on vinyl available but luckily it became the other way around. Nice video
I just bought an Technics Sl 1510 from 1977. An old lady died and her relatives sold it for 100€. Nearly unused with a fresh looking shure system with a nude elliptical stylus.
I am so happy about it, I was on the edge to buy a brand new technics which is much more expensive.
I've been loving your channel, specifically the CD/Vinyl content. It's gotten me re-fired out about both of those formats. One thing I just realized while watching this video (another bonus of vinyl) is there is no region coding...so no blocking music based on where you live. Thanks again for your videos!
Loved this. Used to be extensively into Vinyl and music. Over the years have moved to streaming services and having so much available I found myself listening to less and engaging less. I missed that tactile interaction with the CDs, the player, and the turntable plus vinyl and album art. I am in the process of returning back to physical media now and am already rediscovering old music and finding new music. More to the point I am enjoying and getting excited by music once again. As they say in the Mandalorian "This is the way!" ;) Great video.
Thanks for the Grid/Robert Fripp recommendation. I must admit that I was a fan of Swamp Thing and Texas Cowboys back when they first came out.
That Leviathan CD is one of my faves this year. And to follow it with Remotion! Valuable to hear your hifi perspectives in relation to music I actually listen to. If you've not already checked out the Barker 12s on Ostgut Ton, run to the shop!
I chose the Rega Planar 6 for the same ergonomics you describe with the Pro-ject. It just feels good to use. Currently debating the merits of a separate phono stage. Unfortunately it seems you have to spend so much more on analog kit to compete with a modest CD setup.
Agree on the P6, bought one too last year.
I have enjoyed very much this review. It is a real beauty.
I know you never compare gear which do not have simultaneously for good reasons but I feel like a more comparable contender would be the Technics 1500 without the DJing goodies but which can be obtained < 1K€ in Europe with some ortofon cartridge.
Thanks. Very interesting and educational video.
I must echo how much I LOVE your channel and really, your aesthetic. You are bit young for your taste in music and I'm all in with it! I agree with one of your earlier commenters that I would like to see a Rega comparison to the Pro-ject. Yes, the Rega will be twice as much but the Pro-ject does remind me of my Rega 6 in some ways. BTW, I bought the Matthew Sweet LP on your comments. It really is about the layers on that one too.
It’s always interesting when you compare turntables and their components when you can. Most of us don’t get the chance to do so as often as we would like.
Funny thing for me is that I went belt drive since everyone told me direct drive was too noisy. The belt drive table I bought had terrible motor noise that was audible during playback. I moved over to a direct drive table instead, which ended up have a beautiful black background, much more quiet. Can't believe the stereotypes. Both can be great if designed correctly.
I have a Pro-ject Carbon Evo and it's fantastic. Sure the higher quality models are even better.
The only adds are the auto 33-45 switching. But, who the hell listens to 45's? I set up my Carbon for 78's. It cost $30 for the pulley and belt, and more involved than switching to a 45 . . . but I also have to change cartridges . . . The carbon tone arm is the 'hero' of the Debut Carbon, so . . . it is simplicity to the level of art form.
I love The Grid, thanks for the tip!
I just acquired a NAD C588 table! Nice one. Love your videos!
Thanks for the music recommendation 🙏
The VTA is one of the key parameters for a turntable and cartridge setup. I can tell just by looking at the two two turntable that this is much easier on the Technics where you can simply dial in the correct height. On the Project you have to fiddle with allen keys and try to make fine adjustments by hand and eye which from experience is a pain in the derriere. Cartridge alignment is also much simpler on the Technics where it can be done away from the turntable using a simple gauge. Its all very well going on about arm rigidity but if the cartridge geometry is out you're scuppered.
A great way to start the Sunday!
i do like to see and listen to your opinions that are real not like many others that almost talk robotic and i worked in a radio station for 30 years, so i do know what a good radio voice is
I would try changing the RCA cables and cartridge on that Technics. I think its capable of more. Also how do you like the Project compared to the Planar 2 sonically? Things i don't like about the project are minor but nonetheless i don't like the feet being this close together, the flat tonearm finger lift and the dangling anti-skating weight. I might still consider this table though.
This album DESERVES a shout out indeed.
Active listening with vinyl - 100% love that!!!
Salivating over that gorgeous toggle switch, because it is indeed annoying to have to keep taking the platter off to change speed! I have a NAD C588 and it annoys me to the point that I've pretty much stopped listening to 45s (lazy). Thanks for another great video, John
Thank you for this honest and nice video!
I use a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, with a Goldring E3 cartridge, and I have a similar experience!
These turntables are very good, and save you a lot of money to buy some good vinyl albums!!
I just ordered a Rega Planar 2 with an upgraded cart, the AT VM540ML. I should get it next week :) It's replacing a technics SL-5 that has been slowly self-destructing - only one button remained working, the start button, and that one doesn't work anymore...no way to spin a record!
I went with a fluance rt85 table over the pro ject models. I'm pleased with my decision.
Thank you for the video
Excellent review John. Thank you. Love the music recommendations! Highly recommend to you and others the Vinyl version of F.S. Blumm and Nils Frahm's 2X1=4 especially the track Puddle Drop
I agree that you're locked in when you're playing a record. I really missed that enjoyment and looking for a new TT. Your video arrived just in time I was trying to decide Technics 1200 mk3 from Japan vs Project. Great video as always 👏
If your thinking of getting the Project think twice.
Grab the M3D. Get it serviced, and grab the tonearm wiring and RCA upgrade from KAB USA. Then get an external power supply, or even cheaper, just move the transformer outboard. I do believe that would easily best the Project, and may be cheaper or similar priced, I’m
Not sure how much M3Ds go for these days.
Also you can’t really compare the old technics to the new ones. In my view the GR is better than the Mk2-5, but others disagree.
I have a Mk2 also with the wiring upgrade and it’s phenomenal
@@saadh3364 Dear Saad,
Thank you for the info. I really appreciated it.
@@crescent3427 any time mate. just speaking from experience. I want to do a side by side of my stock 1210GR and my modded 1210mk2, and then external power upgrade, i think could be some interesting results. Remember one of the main features of the Technics SP10 is the external pSU
Just about a week ago I replaced my Rega Planar 1 with the Debut Pro. That platter lifting ang changing the pulley for different speed is very annoying on Rega. The sound of Debut Pro is just night and day compared to P1, next level. Very happy with the decision.
Just what I needed to hear... I'm in the same boat. Looking to upgrade from the P1, and I'm considering the P3 and the Debut Pro.
Love the diversity of metals used for platter and tonearm in different markets. But which one is better aluminum in North America or aluminium everywhere else?! So that I know which one to buy 😊
Yes, you don’t want to mix them up; the world’s rotation could be permanently affected if the wrong one is spun in the wrong hemisphere.
Hi John. Just wondering, do you no longer have your Planar Two? I watched the previous video comparing it to your Technics, and I wonder if this Pro-Ject combines most of what you like about each of those two turntables into one affordable package.
Hi John, enjoyed your video and I must agree with your insights on vinyl playback being more hands on and more engaging than streaming, although like you, I do both.
Last year I replaced my late ‘90s Rega 3 belt-drive turntable, with a high output Benz-Micro MC cartridge, for a Technics SL-1210GR, like yours. Mine is equipped with a Hana SL cartridge.
My initial impression, going from the Rega to the 1210GR was that my old familiar records lacked force, pace, and life. I was a bit disappointed. Over the next few weeks as the new cart’ and ‘table broke in, and I dialled-in the settings on my phono preamp, I became a lot happier with the detail, bottom-end, and solid images the Hana and the 1210GR were excavating from the grooves. The attack and sustain in acoustic music, especially on instruments like guitar and piano is more pronounced, which given the kind of music I mainly listen to, is much appreciated.
Having said that, I do miss the lively force and presentation of my old rig and would certainly entertain getting another belt-driven turntable, perhaps with something like the Hana SL on the business end.
Although the Technics SL-1210GR isn’t made in the E.U., it is manufactured in Japan. And given recent political events, Rega turntables can no longer claim to be manufactured in the E.U.either, pity.
Happy Sunday! I’ve admired Pro-ject turntables for a while but I have a problem with the business end of their tonearms. It’s the finger lift. Too small and too short and I do like a removable headshell. Having said that, great review and glimpse into your record collection… 👏🌹🇦🇺✌️