Hey Jay! We met on the Disney Wonder - I'm Ryan the bartender from Cove Cafe, sorry I missed you on your 2nd cruise, I heard you had asked after me. Was great to meet you mate, thanks for the chat!
The reason that you are my favorite tech RUclipsr is because of your ability to admit when you are wrong, admit when you don’t know everything about what you’re doing, and the fact that you truly show genuine humility and show the desire to learn when you ARE unsure about something. Don’t get me wrong, you know ALOT, and I’ve learned so so much from you, you’re extremely intelligent and I respect your intelligence a lot, but at the same time, You don’t act like you know everything, because nobody knows everything. Through this you show that you’re just a normal human being, which makes you much more relatable. I love your “learning experience” videos just as much as the ones packed with information that you already know like the back of your hand. This video In particular isn’t really either, but I just wanted to leave this comment as I binge your latest videos to catch up after a busy week. You just seem so genuine with everything you do. The way you talk to the camera, the way you talk about what you’re doing, and the way you explain things and break stuff down for people is unmatched. We love you Jay.
@@tradingnichols2255what is wild is after posting this, I found out he and Phil were gonna be at my local Microcenter. I ended up going and I got to say some of this in person. ❤ They also signed my 1080ti Heatsink!!! 😊
Hey Jay, just wanted to say thank you for the years of enjoyment you've given me. Started watching on an older channel of mine when I was around 13 and now I'm 21 and you've given me a lot. I'm headed towards a Systems Administrator role in IT. For the hobby aspect of things you've definitely hit a soft spot.
I would much rather watch JayzTwoScience than watching reviews of computer parts. Liquid cooling building and xoc were the videos that got me on this channel. We need more please!
A reverse greg Salazar, from pc to science channel. Now is all ai, unproven optical glass processor and IPC. Am4 is a stubborn excuse on stuttery fps performance and can't lock frequencies and the intel 14+++++++ mm node just made a toaster oven in 2014 have better heat efficiency.
Some friends and I did this in our garage with a 2.4GHz Northwood P4 back in the day. We got it all the way up 3.6GHz. Though, our pot was hand mig welded and zap strapped to the board....with no condensation protection for the board, just AC insulating wrap for the pot. This brought back some great memories. Thanks.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who did this when they were younger. I was the only one out of a lot of techy friends and I got a lot of crap for it lol
Ahh good times. When extreme OC was extremely custom. Heck even water cooling was extremely custom. Back when you also literally soldered in resisters and such to physically mod boards for more voltage, as well as pencil tricks on CPUs, and when FSB overclocking was the way to go. I did similar myself with an Athlon Xp Mobile 2500, in my volt modded DFI Infinity NF2 board, and 512MB of bh-5 chip DDR. Iirc I had it up to something like 305 Fsb x 10 for 3.05 ghz on over 2v. Pretty sure it was a record, and I was just in high school at the time. That chip and board were troopers, despite the abuse they survived. I still ran them daily OC'd at like 260 or 270ish FSB on a thermalright SLK900U with a vantec tornado fan lol.
We did the same lmao. The board was also an ASUS one. The CPU died, but the board lived on with a Preshott P4 for the rest of its life. I have my Pentium M laptop here, and this might become an OC rig sometime soon, it went from 1.6 to 2 GHz on just air!
For the vacuum system, I’m sure it was initially vacuum but then the evaporating nitrogen filled the tank, so it became a nitrogen purged system the same as binoculars or rifle scopes. So the other components were still cooled by the nitrgoen but there was no water for condensation to occur.
... Y'know, if he ran his testbench in a big plastic box, that could be sufficient to achieve zero condensation I mean, nitrogen is heavier than atmospheric air, so it should displace the air fairly quickly. Heck, a big styrofoam catering box might be enough. The evaporating LN2 should provide more than enough Nitrogen gas to keep the pure nitrogen atmosphere in the box. Well, as long as there wasn't too strong of a draft in the studio...
@@The_Keeper You made me look it up. Nitrogen is lighter than air so that isn't the situation. Now CO2 is heavier than air so he could use that to drive out the moisture laden air.
Ahh, ok. I was just told that it Nitrogen displaced air. Should have looked it up myself. Thanks for the correction. Just looked it up myself. I was thinking of nitrous oxide. But yeah, a CO2 atmosphere could do it. And its the densest gas that is both easy to get, and not extremely dangerous to deal with outside of a lab.
@nanoflower1 I don't think it will work. H20 is probably heavier than anything on air. What he could do instead is just build the vacuum chamber, but draw all the moisture out from the bottom, and fill it back up with nitrogen or co2.
@@The_Keeper Dry ice/CO2 is also something he had in plenty of supply, at least at the start of this experiement. He also doesn't need anything fancy. Put his current setup in a cardboard box and his ready to go. Just sets some dry ice to one side in the box and give it a few minutes before starting the experiment.
@@HamBown And physically, its the same thing giving, the same result; Molecules leaving the source substance. The only difference is the liquid state of source substance... And hell, both can occur at the same time. Sure, science has decided classify them as two different mechanisms, but thats really just pedantry. I mean, I get what you're saying, I really do. But that doesn't mean I won't point out the silliness in the fact that they're considered seperate things, when they're basically the same thing with the only difference being the state of the starting material. So yes, Sublimation IS the correct term as you state, but only due to technicalities.
@@The_Keeper you could say that about a lot of things. It is certainly pedantic to point it out and correct someone, but that level of specificity is actually critical in science.
@@HamBown I know. All I'm saying is that in this instance, its idiotic to have two entirely distinct terms for what amounts to the same thing. Especially in a non-lab situation. I am not disagreeing with you, I am disagreeing with the dingbats who originally decided that they were to be considered two seperate things when they are the same mechanism. Evaporation Might as well be called Liquid Sublimation, or Sublimation might as well be called Solid Evaporation.
I'm not too much into overclocking myself, but I'm into when you do it like this. I get to learn something and is fun to watch. Definitely do more like this!
You don't necessarily need a vacuum to stop condensation, you just need no moisture in the air and for that you can for instance keep the system in a glove box under a continuous nitrogen purge (which will be easy when using LN2) or continuously push dry air in the box
Simply putting everything in a box only open at the top also does a lot. Both with LN2 and dry ice since cold N2 and CO2 in general are denser than air. Still there will be moisture diffusing in, but its way less
@@The_Keeper heat conductivity is not very relevant for liquid cooling, it is what capacity that you want. And/or if possible, like in this case, phase change
I love and appreciate how this channel stayed the same and remained consistent over the years. From the early days of Jay by himself in his home office, to now having a dedicated office and a crew - the quality of content and the humor that goes with it, it's like I'm watching the same good old Jay from back then, only amplified. It's awesome! It's always interesting to watch, and never boring. Thank you for the great content. God bless!
Crazy experiments, always nice! What you're seeing is not the acohol boiling, you're seeing sublimating CO2 bubbles coming out. Dry ice is -78.5 C in a pure CO2 atmosphere at standard pressure. In air its up to 20 C colder. We published that last year after I finished my master thesis on it. Btw theres lots of optimisations can be done on those pots tho, their insides are trash for thermal transfer. At least there's those holes to give more surface area than a bare shell would give. Tho with the very viscous cold IPA it might not improve much, at least way less than the very low viscosity LN2.
Random thought - CPU contact frame instead of the factory bracket? Might allow you to use the larger pot if you wanted to see if you could get a bit better results.
Another option I've thought about to keep condensation out of an XOC rig without getting into crazy vacuum chamber setups or insulating every square millimeter of PCB like it's a Canadian water pipe might be to just make a sealed box with bone-dry, inert gas. This is how I'd do it: 1) Get a box, something like an aquarium, and fill the bottom with something like a half-inch to an inch of silica dessicant beads. This _shouldn't_ be necessary, but it might help to suck any remaining moisture out of the air. They also make color-changing desiccant beads, so it could act as an indicator if moisture is still getting into the enclosure. 2) build your rig inside the aquarium (raised off the bottom, of course, so you don't have silica beads getting stuck in all your various slots, cracks, and ports.) 3) Build everything so that the LN2 pot extends above the top of the container. Then build a sealed lid that gives you access to the LN2 pot for refilling, but that does not allow any air from the outside to reach any of the other parts of the computer. 5) Have 2 ports built into this same lid so you can fill it with either nitrogen, argon, or maybe even just CO2. One port for the gas inlet, one port that's just a one-way valve to let the air exit. Purge the air inside the computer to make sure that _nothing_ but the dry, inert gas it making contact with anything inside the tank. 6) run your OC tests. This way you could remove all of the moisture from the air so there is nothing to condense on the sensitive components, but you still have access to the top of the pot to fill it with more dry ice or LN2. Nitrogen gas might be kind of hard to get to fill the tank, though I know it's not _wildly_ hard to get. Both Nitrogen and CO2 gas can be got pretty easily from paintball (and maybe airsoft?) suppliers. CO2 gas has the advantage of being heavier than air, so you could conceivably fill the tank and even if it's not completely full, so long as that layer of CO2 is higher than where you're worried about condensation, then it shouldn't be an issue. CO2 also has the advantage of being easy to make yourself, since all you need to do is put some CO2 in the chamber and let it sublimate and push all the lighter air up and out of the tank. I also suggested argon as an alternative because it can be had for reasonable prices from welding supply stores. The other benefit of this kind of setup is that in a vacuum chamber, you would have to worry about whether things like the capacitors might pop under pressure or other parts failing. With an inert gas in the rig, then the other components on the board will also still be able to passively cool. In space, one of the hardest engineering challenges isn't so much keeping the heat in the space station or ship or whatever, it's getting _rid_ of heat. In a vacuum, there's no air to carry away that heat, and under those conditions components like SSD's, RAM, and MOSFETs might start building up enough heat to cause a problem. Since these are components that normally aren't seen as being at as much risk for overheating, they might not have the same level of heat protection built-in and you might actually be able to push them hard enough to cause them to fail. Having some sort of gas inside the chamber would alleviate this problem. Depending on how hard or how long you wanted to push your system, too, you could even build some sort of heat exchanger into the side of the tank to allow for heat to transfer out of the case while still keeping the inert gas sealed inside. I'm thinking, like, taking two heat sinks and putting them together so the fins are pointing outward both ways, then cutting a hole in the tank and sealing them. Something like that. Basically just moving heat from one side of the tank wall to the other. But this would introduce new points of failures for leaks and extra complexity that might just be totally unnecessary, but it's just a thought I had while typing this all out. On a similar note, does anyone know why you couldn't just drop an NO2 pot onto a CPU inside a mineral oil PC to accomplish the same thing? Would dry ice or NO2 get cold enough to freeze or gel up the mineral oil enough to cause problems? If this would work, then you could essentially accomplish the same goal (removing water from coming into contact with PC components) but without having to worry about gas seals and sourcing nitrogen and all that.
Why not use argon instead of a vacuum, its heavier than air so will fill a box that a motherboard is in, its dry so no water will condense out and its easily available from welding suppliers.
Lol, you must be looking for a channel where we think through and plan things first... we were seconds away from a glorious isopropyl alcohol combustion... we don't do things the smart way here... we just do them lmao
Hey Jay! Cool tech tip for YOU. On those long, threaded rods you can take a small drill and set it opposite the way you want to turn the nut you're screwing, then hold down the trigger (Go at your own pace) and the chuck will spin against the nut, spinning the nut. Smaller drills work better, especially if their chuck is rubberized and not plasticized.
I wonder how dielectric oil would take the cold. You can submerge the board in the oil, then cool the whole container with the board and oil in it. You wouldn't have to worry about condensation. I am just not sure how cold it can go.
Regarding the "vacuum" system to control moisture. I can foresee problems with the rest of the system that depends on air cooling (including components that wouldn't normally need to be cooled). A thought that I have had in the past was to build the PC inside a sealed case, then completely dehumidifying it to 0% humidity, and then providing a closed loop radiator within that sealed cabinet to provide cooling (absorbing rather than radiating heat) to the components that aren't cooled by a sub-zero (something other than water) loop .
Here's a stupid challenge you could maybe collaborate with one of the engineering/building channels on: instead of using fans to move air over radiators or heatsinks, move them or the entire PC through the air. Could you match the OC of a normal watercooling loop or will the computer be torn apart?
I love your PC modding. But also tours, systems, and why the systems are with the specs they are and such. I like all the background knowledge of IT as well.
Your "science" is improving! Best we can all try for. Two things, cooling isopropyl with solid CO2 does not boil the alcohol, it's actually CO2 subliming from solid to vapor creating bubbles that rise through the isopropyl. Also torching a pot is only for increasing temp delta to increase liquid to vapor phase change. You are getting better, keep it up!
1:12 the fine thread is nice because it gives you fine adjustments. May I recommend putting a nut in place before you cut off the top of that all thread. When you unthread the nut it will take any burrs out and make reinsertion of the nut easier next time.
it would be great to see more XOC stuff on here, maybe even another competition with kingpin again! I prefer to live vicariously through you for XOC content!
On the Xtreme Systems forums, good 12 years ago, there was a thread called "Goliath Triple Cooling System" of a guy building a computer case with 3 separate cooling loops. One loop (chilled liquid running at -40C) for CPU and dual GPUs, second loop for cooling the air in the (mostly) air-tight case to -40C as well (so that any moisture condenses on the heat exchanger and the PC only sees absolutely dry air, so no frost/condensation problems on expensive parts) and a 3rd loop, this time "plain" water cooling, to cool HDDs and other peripherals that don't run sub-zero. Sadly, the build was never finished.
It's amazing that as much unintersted as I am in any kind of overclocking I still love seeing you doing this kind of videos. I'm sure that in later videos you'll find a way to solve some of the problems with dry ice and lN2 and try it again.
MOAR videos like this please. Especially more Nic and Phil. Also intrigued to see if Kingpin can bring some real attention to PNY in the US. Edit: stick your alcohol in the freezer first so it's not room temp when you dump it in.
Idea for the next video: best overclocking with the worst value products of this current cycle (overclock all components, CPU, GPU and RAM) to see how far they need to go to be a good value. Love the madness of these videos!
For the E cores, you want to watch the ring when you touch them (May have to do this through the bios if XTU doesn't have a ring option). You may not have had the BSOD if you lowered the ring, as I've personally found that a higher E core clock destabalizes the ring when that is near its limit.
A minor point, but dry Ice does not evaporate at room pressure. Dry Ice sublimates. Evaporation is a phase change from liquid to gas, while sublimation is a phase change directly from solid to gas.
These janky screwing around videos are my favourite! Have you thought of experimenting with mineral baths for cooling? I wonder what combination of submersion coolant and cooler/ underwater fan combo would work best? I'm imagining a setup where you leave your CPU exposed, and just have a fan pointed directly at it. That way you remove the extra contact layer (metal on metal,) that you would need with a LN2 or heatsink/water block setup. In fact, is there a world where you can create a watertight mineral bath tub that would allow your liquid to directly come into contact with the CPU lid? You could pump mineral bath fluids with a regular pump.
You crack me up. I was one of the original customized store bought water coolers in the 90s... I just wanted to play quake with zero latency. In the bay area I learned about condensation and just put my computer on the side blowing an air conditioner across my radiator in winter with SF fog. I had to do some radio shack stuff. We had to use jumpers. I blew up more boards than chips. I was running ATI graphics with a voodoo 1
Heat transfer can still occur via radiation in a vacuum. That being said, what you could potentially do is seal the chamber and use dehumidifiers to remove the moisture in the air.
hey jay, easy tip with those threads. put a circular cloth or even a thinker rubber band around one side of the bolt and your drill in the same loop, then you can just use the drill to screw/unscrew
JAY! Try using 189/190 proof Everclear if you can get it in your state. Ethanol has a slightly lower boiling point compared to IPA (not the beer) at a whopping 7 degrees F lower but evaporates slower. Don't bother with acetone BTW. Evaporates faster than both of those and much more flammable.
Try this. Mineral oil pc, with the lno2 funnel suspended out of the oil. now drop dry ice into the oil, it has a freezing temp of -30. this way you can cool the motherboard, and not worry about frost. after that just use the lno2 like normal, no shorts because the oil does not conduct electricity.
Hey Jay, just a thought: Rather than going for a vacuum have you explored the possibility of some form of extreme de-humidification? After all, the problem isn't really air, but water- so remove the water from the volume of air coming into contact with your kit. No water in the air=nothing to condense.
ive got an idea for ya: not vacuum enclosure, but filled with same CO2 as in the dry ice, and have it circulated via fans somehow, that or nitrogen gas, if N2 is used
jay, rubber band on the thumscrew get a bolt and chuck it into the drill stretch the band between the two and turn on the drill SLOWLY and then ramp up as needed and it'll thread down (asuming there are no issues with the threaded bar
Just want to say, I love this crazy stuff you do that I could never have done. Cause I can’t f***.. Mess around with my stuff like this 😂 It’s good fun to watch honestly. Next step is to put your PC in your car and drive as hell to see much friction it can take before giving up 😏
Actually impressed with how well the dry ice/alc worked - I do need to get my 11700k under water at least (still rolling 5GHz all core 1.3vCore was at 1.40 since I just did a dirty OC).
The pot you are using was designed for much lower wattage, and has very little surface area. But it still shouldn't get this high in temperatures with this little load! Dice can easily hold 500W with the right pot. You might have had mount issues, paste spread needs to be thicker and proper full cover for subzero, and going too low with the wrong paste can also cause it to harden, crack, and turn cause it to dislodge itself from the hs/pot. But you will also get much better results with a pot with more surface area like the Volcano, or by tapping the holes in your kingpin pot.
put the motherboard in a box, does not have to be air tight, displace air in the box with a "dry gas" co2, argon, etc. this will significantly reduce moisture, while leaving an air cooling medium for other components
Or put the nuts on before putting the nuts down the long threaded item into the motherboard... Honestly, nice tip! . . . but there's a better order of operations. LOL
Let's find some creative uses for that heat! Can you make tea (caffeine free green @ 82 C) by using a water loop? Use some valves with a solid copper water block and dunk into into a JTC mug and see if it can get the water hot enough for the tea bag. How much electricity can we generate by adding a Peltier Module to the loop? Enough to power a VRM fan? Can you use the water loop to heat your seat? Maybe lower back pad at least?
Air conditioners dehumidify the air, one could try making a duct to blow directly on the board/socket area to help prevent condensation from forming, freezing, and melting.
That's a ton like what I said, and then got suggesting on other's suggestions and had a fun idea of my own! He probably won't do it, but I test my OC's with CPU mining. Really no point to use R23 too. LOL Except maybe that more people run those tests so I can see where I'm at in the community. Helped me realize 1 of my motherboards SUCK... and it's the one I picked for my main PC. 5950x is still way more power than I need, but I don't like that it made my 5800x3d a good 2000 to 2500 points slower on r23 than an older MOBO that I got for my wife and had to update the bios - that old "lower end board" was higher end for it's day and better than anything new I got from Aorus Pro's lineup.... sad.
Hey jay long time watcher of the channel. I think a cool idea would be to maybe bring on a subscriber to mess around with ln2 and show alot of the science that goes into it. I love learning about all the quirks that go into xoc and tech in general.
Experiment idea: Dry ice cooling a mineral oil submerged system. It is said to have a freezing point of like -30c, so possibly useful. Other liquids with lower temp capabilities might be a good idea if they are non conductive.
please try the same setup and drop into a shallow mineral spirit bath, just enough to cover the components with the pot being the only thing exposed so you can pour in the alcohol. And chill the alcohol as much as possible. What will the cold exterior of the pot do to the mineral spirits? If a problem build a mold to pour epoxy as thick as you need to give it a barrier.
I was thinking of your condensation problem and the vacuum box you want to build . I don’t think you need a vacuum box , my suggestion is build a box to put the pc in with a lid that has a hole cut in it for your pot . Then just flood the box with a gas that’s heavier than air this would push all that wet air out and replace it with a clean gas with no moisture .
Jay, you should try and build a mostly sealed box and pump CO2 or even nitrogen gas inside until it displaces all the normal atmospheric air with water vapor in it to minimize or eliminate condensation. Obviously be careful with anything that can displace your breathable air but I even have an idea for an enclosure that I think could work as a good test bench.
11:54 I definitely heard "We dont have much time" in Arnie's voice as the T-1000 is on the floor in pieces melting back together from the liquid nitrogen. Weird association I know.
Have you considered doing immersion cooling to get to subzero temps? Electrocool's freezing point is -40 to -60 apparently, so you could use a heat exchanger and just keep the equipment in a tub
Have you considered that it might be almost as effective if you have a very good plate, and a sort of liquid cool to a chamber chilled with the dry ice or similar? use something like car antifreeze so that the liquid won't ice up, and you might have a very good way to apply extreme cold (-20 or lower) to the CPU directly. You might have to use a real pump to get things moving though.
Hey Jay - Disclaimer - I'm not an overclocker and this may be stupid. just watched the bit about a vac chamber - would it not be "easier", but still effective to create a chamber where you can connect a dehumidifier and circulate dehumidified air? You wouldn't need to seal against air pressure differences so the chamber build should be easier.
Hey Jay! We met on the Disney Wonder - I'm Ryan the bartender from Cove Cafe, sorry I missed you on your 2nd cruise, I heard you had asked after me. Was great to meet you mate, thanks for the chat!
get this man to the top of the comments
This is the way
This is the comment we didn't know we needed.
@@captainslow_037 he are!
Covfefe?
The reason that you are my favorite tech RUclipsr is because of your ability to admit when you are wrong, admit when you don’t know everything about what you’re doing, and the fact that you truly show genuine humility and show the desire to learn when you ARE unsure about something. Don’t get me wrong, you know ALOT, and I’ve learned so so much from you, you’re extremely intelligent and I respect your intelligence a lot, but at the same time, You don’t act like you know everything, because nobody knows everything. Through this you show that you’re just a normal human being, which makes you much more relatable. I love your “learning experience” videos just as much as the ones packed with information that you already know like the back of your hand. This video In particular isn’t really either, but I just wanted to leave this comment as I binge your latest videos to catch up after a busy week. You just seem so genuine with everything you do. The way you talk to the camera, the way you talk about what you’re doing, and the way you explain things and break stuff down for people is unmatched. We love you Jay.
exactly that.
If I was Jay, I"d add a heart this comment, but I don't know how much he and his staff have for such things. :)
@@tradingnichols2255what is wild is after posting this, I found out he and Phil were gonna be at my local Microcenter. I ended up going and I got to say some of this in person. ❤
They also signed my 1080ti Heatsink!!! 😊
Hey Jay, just wanted to say thank you for the years of enjoyment you've given me. Started watching on an older channel of mine when I was around 13 and now I'm 21 and you've given me a lot. I'm headed towards a Systems Administrator role in IT. For the hobby aspect of things you've definitely hit a soft spot.
Same for me. Started watching when i was 16, now im 23. Havent missed a single upload yet
100% more Jayz Science channel.
I would much rather watch JayzTwoScience than watching reviews of computer parts. Liquid cooling building and xoc were the videos that got me on this channel. We need more please!
The real question is, do you take the $500,000 or the dinner with JayZ
When you wants max OC you better us an Asus ROG MB
A reverse greg Salazar, from pc to science channel. Now is all ai, unproven optical glass processor and IPC. Am4 is a stubborn excuse on stuttery fps performance and can't lock frequencies and the intel 14+++++++ mm node just made a toaster oven in 2014 have better heat efficiency.
Some friends and I did this in our garage with a 2.4GHz Northwood P4 back in the day. We got it all the way up 3.6GHz. Though, our pot was hand mig welded and zap strapped to the board....with no condensation protection for the board, just AC insulating wrap for the pot. This brought back some great memories. Thanks.
the good old days :D
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who did this when they were younger. I was the only one out of a lot of techy friends and I got a lot of crap for it lol
P4 Northwood ftw!
I remember having a 2.8gb @ 3.36 stable oc. The good old days...
Ahh good times. When extreme OC was extremely custom. Heck even water cooling was extremely custom.
Back when you also literally soldered in resisters and such to physically mod boards for more voltage, as well as pencil tricks on CPUs, and when FSB overclocking was the way to go.
I did similar myself with an Athlon Xp Mobile 2500, in my volt modded DFI Infinity NF2 board, and 512MB of bh-5 chip DDR. Iirc I had it up to something like 305 Fsb x 10 for 3.05 ghz on over 2v. Pretty sure it was a record, and I was just in high school at the time. That chip and board were troopers, despite the abuse they survived. I still ran them daily OC'd at like 260 or 270ish FSB on a thermalright SLK900U with a vantec tornado fan lol.
We did the same lmao. The board was also an ASUS one. The CPU died, but the board lived on with a Preshott P4 for the rest of its life. I have my Pentium M laptop here, and this might become an OC rig sometime soon, it went from 1.6 to 2 GHz on just air!
For the vacuum system, I’m sure it was initially vacuum but then the evaporating nitrogen filled the tank, so it became a nitrogen purged system the same as binoculars or rifle scopes. So the other components were still cooled by the nitrgoen but there was no water for condensation to occur.
... Y'know, if he ran his testbench in a big plastic box, that could be sufficient to achieve zero condensation
I mean, nitrogen is heavier than atmospheric air, so it should displace the air fairly quickly.
Heck, a big styrofoam catering box might be enough.
The evaporating LN2 should provide more than enough Nitrogen gas to keep the pure nitrogen atmosphere in the box.
Well, as long as there wasn't too strong of a draft in the studio...
@@The_Keeper You made me look it up. Nitrogen is lighter than air so that isn't the situation. Now CO2 is heavier than air so he could use that to drive out the moisture laden air.
Ahh, ok.
I was just told that it Nitrogen displaced air.
Should have looked it up myself.
Thanks for the correction.
Just looked it up myself.
I was thinking of nitrous oxide.
But yeah, a CO2 atmosphere could do it.
And its the densest gas that is both easy to get, and not extremely dangerous to deal with outside of a lab.
@nanoflower1 I don't think it will work. H20 is probably heavier than anything on air. What he could do instead is just build the vacuum chamber, but draw all the moisture out from the bottom, and fill it back up with nitrogen or co2.
@@The_Keeper Dry ice/CO2 is also something he had in plenty of supply, at least at the start of this experiement. He also doesn't need anything fancy. Put his current setup in a cardboard box and his ready to go. Just sets some dry ice to one side in the box and give it a few minutes before starting the experiment.
Finally Jay went back to the cool stuff. Love these videos
I like how he got used systems and upgraded them too. :)
Captain Pedantic chiming in. You wouldn't be evaporating money by letting that dry ice go to waste, but rather sublimating it.
To be fair;
Sublimation is just evaporation without the liquid stage.
The difference is academic, at best. :)
@@The_Keeper evaporation requires liquid. It is defined by the conversion of liquid to gas, so not really. Sublimation is the correct term.
@@HamBown And physically, its the same thing giving, the same result;
Molecules leaving the source substance.
The only difference is the liquid state of source substance...
And hell, both can occur at the same time.
Sure, science has decided classify them as two different mechanisms, but thats really just pedantry.
I mean, I get what you're saying, I really do.
But that doesn't mean I won't point out the silliness in the fact that they're considered seperate things, when they're basically the same thing with the only difference being the state of the starting material.
So yes, Sublimation IS the correct term as you state, but only due to technicalities.
@@The_Keeper you could say that about a lot of things. It is certainly pedantic to point it out and correct someone, but that level of specificity is actually critical in science.
@@HamBown I know.
All I'm saying is that in this instance, its idiotic to have two entirely distinct terms for what amounts to the same thing.
Especially in a non-lab situation.
I am not disagreeing with you, I am disagreeing with the dingbats who originally decided that they were to be considered two seperate things when they are the same mechanism.
Evaporation Might as well be called Liquid Sublimation, or Sublimation might as well be called Solid Evaporation.
I'm not too much into overclocking myself, but I'm into when you do it like this. I get to learn something and is fun to watch. Definitely do more like this!
You don't necessarily need a vacuum to stop condensation, you just need no moisture in the air and for that you can for instance keep the system in a glove box under a continuous nitrogen purge (which will be easy when using LN2) or continuously push dry air in the box
Simply putting everything in a box only open at the top also does a lot. Both with LN2 and dry ice since cold N2 and CO2 in general are denser than air. Still there will be moisture diffusing in, but its way less
Time for a sub-zero Alcohol loop. ALL THE DRY ICE.
That would be awesome! Hard though, the stuff gets very viscous at those temperature
Not to mention that alcohol has dreadful thermal conductivity...
Water is around 3,5 times better at conducting heat than alcohol.
@@The_Keeper heat conductivity is not very relevant for liquid cooling, it is what capacity that you want. And/or if possible, like in this case, phase change
@@The_Keeper So 3.5x the flow rate!
And MUCH colder before freezing vs. water.
I want to see how an alcohol loop works. DO IT JAYZTWOCENTS
@@jameswhitehead6758 Indeed
I love and appreciate how this channel stayed the same and remained consistent over the years. From the early days of Jay by himself in his home office, to now having a dedicated office and a crew - the quality of content and the humor that goes with it, it's like I'm watching the same good old Jay from back then, only amplified. It's awesome! It's always interesting to watch, and never boring. Thank you for the great content.
God bless!
Crazy experiments, always nice! What you're seeing is not the acohol boiling, you're seeing sublimating CO2 bubbles coming out.
Dry ice is -78.5 C in a pure CO2 atmosphere at standard pressure. In air its up to 20 C colder. We published that last year after I finished my master thesis on it.
Btw theres lots of optimisations can be done on those pots tho, their insides are trash for thermal transfer. At least there's those holes to give more surface area than a bare shell would give. Tho with the very viscous cold IPA it might not improve much, at least way less than the very low viscosity LN2.
Random thought - CPU contact frame instead of the factory bracket? Might allow you to use the larger pot if you wanted to see if you could get a bit better results.
I love the mad scientist experiments.
I love to see you guys have so much fun with these series, reminds me a bit of Braniac in a way - but tech
I'm loving the Professor Jay video series!
I miss the old air conditioner days. Not as extreme but still fun to watch him experiment.
8:05 - and thus, Jay created a new version of MSI afterburner
I love this content. Thank you for sharing!
Another option I've thought about to keep condensation out of an XOC rig without getting into crazy vacuum chamber setups or insulating every square millimeter of PCB like it's a Canadian water pipe might be to just make a sealed box with bone-dry, inert gas. This is how I'd do it:
1) Get a box, something like an aquarium, and fill the bottom with something like a half-inch to an inch of silica dessicant beads. This _shouldn't_ be necessary, but it might help to suck any remaining moisture out of the air. They also make color-changing desiccant beads, so it could act as an indicator if moisture is still getting into the enclosure.
2) build your rig inside the aquarium (raised off the bottom, of course, so you don't have silica beads getting stuck in all your various slots, cracks, and ports.)
3) Build everything so that the LN2 pot extends above the top of the container. Then build a sealed lid that gives you access to the LN2 pot for refilling, but that does not allow any air from the outside to reach any of the other parts of the computer.
5) Have 2 ports built into this same lid so you can fill it with either nitrogen, argon, or maybe even just CO2. One port for the gas inlet, one port that's just a one-way valve to let the air exit. Purge the air inside the computer to make sure that _nothing_ but the dry, inert gas it making contact with anything inside the tank.
6) run your OC tests.
This way you could remove all of the moisture from the air so there is nothing to condense on the sensitive components, but you still have access to the top of the pot to fill it with more dry ice or LN2. Nitrogen gas might be kind of hard to get to fill the tank, though I know it's not _wildly_ hard to get. Both Nitrogen and CO2 gas can be got pretty easily from paintball (and maybe airsoft?) suppliers. CO2 gas has the advantage of being heavier than air, so you could conceivably fill the tank and even if it's not completely full, so long as that layer of CO2 is higher than where you're worried about condensation, then it shouldn't be an issue. CO2 also has the advantage of being easy to make yourself, since all you need to do is put some CO2 in the chamber and let it sublimate and push all the lighter air up and out of the tank. I also suggested argon as an alternative because it can be had for reasonable prices from welding supply stores.
The other benefit of this kind of setup is that in a vacuum chamber, you would have to worry about whether things like the capacitors might pop under pressure or other parts failing. With an inert gas in the rig, then the other components on the board will also still be able to passively cool. In space, one of the hardest engineering challenges isn't so much keeping the heat in the space station or ship or whatever, it's getting _rid_ of heat. In a vacuum, there's no air to carry away that heat, and under those conditions components like SSD's, RAM, and MOSFETs might start building up enough heat to cause a problem. Since these are components that normally aren't seen as being at as much risk for overheating, they might not have the same level of heat protection built-in and you might actually be able to push them hard enough to cause them to fail. Having some sort of gas inside the chamber would alleviate this problem.
Depending on how hard or how long you wanted to push your system, too, you could even build some sort of heat exchanger into the side of the tank to allow for heat to transfer out of the case while still keeping the inert gas sealed inside. I'm thinking, like, taking two heat sinks and putting them together so the fins are pointing outward both ways, then cutting a hole in the tank and sealing them. Something like that. Basically just moving heat from one side of the tank wall to the other. But this would introduce new points of failures for leaks and extra complexity that might just be totally unnecessary, but it's just a thought I had while typing this all out.
On a similar note, does anyone know why you couldn't just drop an NO2 pot onto a CPU inside a mineral oil PC to accomplish the same thing? Would dry ice or NO2 get cold enough to freeze or gel up the mineral oil enough to cause problems? If this would work, then you could essentially accomplish the same goal (removing water from coming into contact with PC components) but without having to worry about gas seals and sourcing nitrogen and all that.
Why not use argon instead of a vacuum, its heavier than air so will fill a box that a motherboard is in, its dry so no water will condense out and its easily available from welding suppliers.
Why not put the nuts on the other end of the rods before putting the rods onto the m/b ?
Lol, you must be looking for a channel where we think through and plan things first... we were seconds away from a glorious isopropyl alcohol combustion... we don't do things the smart way here... we just do them lmao
@@gingaming_gg I'm surprised I needed to search someone talking about the torch xD
I thought of this, then painfully forgot it to live in "Jay's moment. lol
Hey Jay! Cool tech tip for YOU. On those long, threaded rods you can take a small drill and set it opposite the way you want to turn the nut you're screwing, then hold down the trigger (Go at your own pace) and the chuck will spin against the nut, spinning the nut. Smaller drills work better, especially if their chuck is rubberized and not plasticized.
always loved and enjoyed the LN2 content and the RIP Steve saga was amazing.
I wonder how dielectric oil would take the cold. You can submerge the board in the oil, then cool the whole container with the board and oil in it. You wouldn't have to worry about condensation. I am just not sure how cold it can go.
-57'C is the pour point for mineral oil
Jay, you should do some science with the Thermal Grizzly AM5 direct die waterblock
I wanna see you run chilled alcohol through a water cooled system!
Chill a rad with an ac unit? Yeah I can see him doing that
@@theofficialbgame He's done that multiple times in the past. Lol.
Regarding the "vacuum" system to control moisture. I can foresee problems with the rest of the system that depends on air cooling (including components that wouldn't normally need to be cooled). A thought that I have had in the past was to build the PC inside a sealed case, then completely dehumidifying it to 0% humidity, and then providing a closed loop radiator within that sealed cabinet to provide cooling (absorbing rather than radiating heat) to the components that aren't cooled by a sub-zero (something other than water) loop .
@6:56 "there no active cooling on it", pans to it with 2 fans pointed to it. Never change Jay
Here's a stupid challenge you could maybe collaborate with one of the engineering/building channels on: instead of using fans to move air over radiators or heatsinks, move them or the entire PC through the air. Could you match the OC of a normal watercooling loop or will the computer be torn apart?
I love your PC modding. But also tours, systems, and why the systems are with the specs they are and such. I like all the background knowledge of IT as well.
Your "science" is improving! Best we can all try for. Two things, cooling isopropyl with solid CO2 does not boil the alcohol, it's actually CO2 subliming from solid to vapor creating bubbles that rise through the isopropyl. Also torching a pot is only for increasing temp delta to increase liquid to vapor phase change. You are getting better, keep it up!
So good to see back to these types of videos, love you Jay!!!
1:12 the fine thread is nice because it gives you fine adjustments. May I recommend putting a nut in place before you cut off the top of that all thread. When you unthread the nut it will take any burrs out and make reinsertion of the nut easier next time.
Jay’s dryice adventures marathon just dropped!!!
it would be great to see more XOC stuff on here, maybe even another competition with kingpin again! I prefer to live vicariously through you for XOC content!
On the Xtreme Systems forums, good 12 years ago, there was a thread called "Goliath Triple Cooling System" of a guy building a computer case with 3 separate cooling loops. One loop (chilled liquid running at -40C) for CPU and dual GPUs, second loop for cooling the air in the (mostly) air-tight case to -40C as well (so that any moisture condenses on the heat exchanger and the PC only sees absolutely dry air, so no frost/condensation problems on expensive parts) and a 3rd loop, this time "plain" water cooling, to cool HDDs and other peripherals that don't run sub-zero. Sadly, the build was never finished.
It's amazing that as much unintersted as I am in any kind of overclocking I still love seeing you doing this kind of videos. I'm sure that in later videos you'll find a way to solve some of the problems with dry ice and lN2 and try it again.
MOAR videos like this please. Especially more Nic and Phil. Also intrigued to see if Kingpin can bring some real attention to PNY in the US.
Edit: stick your alcohol in the freezer first so it's not room temp when you dump it in.
Idea for the next video: best overclocking with the worst value products of this current cycle (overclock all components, CPU, GPU and RAM) to see how far they need to go to be a good value.
Love the madness of these videos!
For the E cores, you want to watch the ring when you touch them (May have to do this through the bios if XTU doesn't have a ring option). You may not have had the BSOD if you lowered the ring, as I've personally found that a higher E core clock destabalizes the ring when that is near its limit.
I'm not familiar with the ring. Can you tell me more?
I do enjoy your crazy over clocking stuff. Even if it does not work. As I'm never going to OC my rig, it's cool to see someone else do it
More mythbusters ish stuff please. I miss that and this is so close to it sometimes. Keep the crazy random experiments coming.
A minor point, but dry Ice does not evaporate at room pressure. Dry Ice sublimates. Evaporation is a phase change from liquid to gas, while sublimation is a phase change directly from solid to gas.
I think videos like this best define your channel, strong passion for what you do.
0:23
Camera Man: "nice!"
Jay: "Ow I have a thigh cramp"
Relatable, I call them charlie horses cause that's what they are called apparently.
Jayz two cents ultimate gamer between you guys in various games. It’s been awhile since something like that.
These janky screwing around videos are my favourite!
Have you thought of experimenting with mineral baths for cooling? I wonder what combination of submersion coolant and cooler/ underwater fan combo would work best? I'm imagining a setup where you leave your CPU exposed, and just have a fan pointed directly at it. That way you remove the extra contact layer (metal on metal,) that you would need with a LN2 or heatsink/water block setup.
In fact, is there a world where you can create a watertight mineral bath tub that would allow your liquid to directly come into contact with the CPU lid?
You could pump mineral bath fluids with a regular pump.
You want more stupid ideas? Sorry, I don't have any, but I LOVED how fun this video was!
You crack me up. I was one of the original customized store bought water coolers in the 90s... I just wanted to play quake with zero latency. In the bay area I learned about condensation and just put my computer on the side blowing an air conditioner across my radiator in winter with SF fog. I had to do some radio shack stuff. We had to use jumpers. I blew up more boards than chips.
I was running ATI graphics with a voodoo 1
Heat transfer can still occur via radiation in a vacuum. That being said, what you could potentially do is seal the chamber and use dehumidifiers to remove the moisture in the air.
hey jay, easy tip with those threads. put a circular cloth or even a thinker rubber band around one side of the bolt and your drill in the same loop, then you can just use the drill to screw/unscrew
Keep at it, the origin of knowledge is experimentation and documenting the results.
i enjoy these little science experiments tbh
JAY! Try using 189/190 proof Everclear if you can get it in your state. Ethanol has a slightly lower boiling point compared to IPA (not the beer) at a whopping 7 degrees F lower but evaporates slower.
Don't bother with acetone BTW. Evaporates faster than both of those and much more flammable.
i love this kind of experimental idiocy! this was a lot of fun
I love when Jay gets the XOC bug :)
Good point about not using blowtorch with IPA, probably wouldn't do the 3D printed piece any good either...
1:36 You know you can put the nuts on the other way, and then put the rods in place
Try this. Mineral oil pc, with the lno2 funnel suspended out of the oil. now drop dry ice into the oil, it has a freezing temp of -30. this way you can cool the motherboard, and not worry about frost. after that just use the lno2 like normal, no shorts because the oil does not conduct electricity.
ahahahahahah 7:59 Jay without eyebrows...that would be really really funny....at least for some time XD
[1.46] Dry ice sublimates. Dry ice does NOT evaporate.
do a video just going through all the weird/cool stuff you've collected over the years!
Love to see some Jay extreme overclocking.
Hey Jay, just a thought: Rather than going for a vacuum have you explored the possibility of some form of extreme de-humidification? After all, the problem isn't really air, but water- so remove the water from the volume of air coming into contact with your kit. No water in the air=nothing to condense.
ive got an idea for ya: not vacuum enclosure, but filled with same CO2 as in the dry ice, and have it circulated via fans somehow, that or nitrogen gas, if N2 is used
jay, rubber band on the thumscrew get a bolt and chuck it into the drill stretch the band between the two and turn on the drill SLOWLY and then ramp up as needed and it'll thread down (asuming there are no issues with the threaded bar
Just want to say, I love this crazy stuff you do that I could never have done. Cause I can’t f***.. Mess around with my stuff like this 😂 It’s good fun to watch honestly.
Next step is to put your PC in your car and drive as hell to see much friction it can take before giving up 😏
Actually impressed with how well the dry ice/alc worked - I do need to get my 11700k under water at least (still rolling 5GHz all core 1.3vCore was at 1.40 since I just did a dirty OC).
You sir are insane. But wow what fun! 44098 is insane.
The pot you are using was designed for much lower wattage, and has very little surface area. But it still shouldn't get this high in temperatures with this little load! Dice can easily hold 500W with the right pot. You might have had mount issues, paste spread needs to be thicker and proper full cover for subzero, and going too low with the wrong paste can also cause it to harden, crack, and turn cause it to dislodge itself from the hs/pot. But you will also get much better results with a pot with more surface area like the Volcano, or by tapping the holes in your kingpin pot.
In a vacuum, radiated heat should take good care of passively cooled stuff, as there is no longer an air blanket around them to insulate.
put the motherboard in a box, does not have to be air tight, displace air in the box with a "dry gas" co2, argon, etc. this will significantly reduce moisture, while leaving an air cooling medium for other components
You could use a rag to slide the hold down nuts much faster. I learnt that from construction workers putting lug nuts on long bolts.
Or put the nuts on before putting the nuts down the long threaded item into the motherboard...
Honestly, nice tip! . . . but there's a better order of operations. LOL
Let's find some creative uses for that heat!
Can you make tea (caffeine free green @ 82 C) by using a water loop? Use some valves with a solid copper water block and dunk into into a JTC mug and see if it can get the water hot enough for the tea bag.
How much electricity can we generate by adding a Peltier Module to the loop? Enough to power a VRM fan?
Can you use the water loop to heat your seat? Maybe lower back pad at least?
Well done on your experiment sir. Look forward to the next one.
Air conditioners dehumidify the air, one could try making a duct to blow directly on the board/socket area to help prevent condensation from forming, freezing, and melting.
I love these videos! Please do more! I don’t have any suggestions though
That's a ton like what I said, and then got suggesting on other's suggestions and had a fun idea of my own!
He probably won't do it, but I test my OC's with CPU mining. Really no point to use R23 too. LOL
Except maybe that more people run those tests so I can see where I'm at in the community. Helped me realize 1 of my motherboards SUCK... and it's the one I picked for my main PC. 5950x is still way more power than I need, but I don't like that it made my 5800x3d a good 2000 to 2500 points slower on r23 than an older MOBO that I got for my wife and had to update the bios - that old "lower end board" was higher end for it's day and better than anything new I got from Aorus Pro's lineup.... sad.
Hey jay long time watcher of the channel. I think a cool idea would be to maybe bring on a subscriber to mess around with ln2 and show alot of the science that goes into it. I love learning about all the quirks that go into xoc and tech in general.
Experiment idea: Dry ice cooling a mineral oil submerged system. It is said to have a freezing point of like -30c, so possibly useful. Other liquids with lower temp capabilities might be a good idea if they are non conductive.
The evaporated LN2 is still pretty darn cold, so as long as you don't pull too strong of a vacuum when operating it really shouldn't be an issue.
For the nuts on the threaded rod, use compressed air to spin it, much faster
Didn't try Pcores at 69x and Ecores at 42x, smh...
please try the same setup and drop into a shallow mineral spirit bath, just enough to cover the components with the pot being the only thing exposed so you can pour in the alcohol. And chill the alcohol as much as possible.
What will the cold exterior of the pot do to the mineral spirits? If a problem build a mold to pour epoxy as thick as you need to give it a barrier.
i meant mineral oil
I love the "extreme" overclocking type stuff. Would love to see how hard you can push an AMD CPU as a comparison to this video
These are my favorite eps.
Thanks Jay
multiple loops and rads with TEC's intersecting each loop, so each loop cools the liquid down as it goes through the each rad.
I was thinking of your condensation problem and the vacuum box you want to build . I don’t think you need a vacuum box , my suggestion is build a box to put the pc in with a lid that has a hole cut in it for your pot . Then just flood the box with a gas that’s heavier than air this would push all that wet air out and replace it with a clean gas with no moisture .
Jay, you should try and build a mostly sealed box and pump CO2 or even nitrogen gas inside until it displaces all the normal atmospheric air with water vapor in it to minimize or eliminate condensation. Obviously be careful with anything that can displace your breathable air but I even have an idea for an enclosure that I think could work as a good test bench.
Whoooooo let’s go Jay! Love you bro!
Jay turned that cpu into the T-1000 from the end of terminator 2 in that little RUclips short he did, can’t wait to see what happens here
11:54 I definitely heard "We dont have much time" in Arnie's voice as the T-1000 is on the floor in pieces melting back together from the liquid nitrogen. Weird association I know.
Have you ever considered building in a dorm fridge as a case?
You could jury rig a loop on the cold side of a AC unit for the next experiment.
Have you considered doing immersion cooling to get to subzero temps? Electrocool's freezing point is -40 to -60 apparently, so you could use a heat exchanger and just keep the equipment in a tub
Have you considered that it might be almost as effective if you have a very good plate, and a sort of liquid cool to a chamber chilled with the dry ice or similar? use something like car antifreeze so that the liquid won't ice up, and you might have a very good way to apply extreme cold (-20 or lower) to the CPU directly. You might have to use a real pump to get things moving though.
Hey Jay - Disclaimer - I'm not an overclocker and this may be stupid. just watched the bit about a vac chamber - would it not be "easier", but still effective to create a chamber where you can connect a dehumidifier and circulate dehumidified air? You wouldn't need to seal against air pressure differences so the chamber build should be easier.
What about a submerged system? I've always wanted to see you build one of those.