I really appreciate you two fellows. Your take on the news is so much better than any of the other options. Thanks for I hope this comes through liked. Thanks
Here's the explanation of the arrows you were wondering about; - A composite arrow is not that surprising. The reed was used at the rear because it notches well to accommodate the bowstring. The willow for it's flexibility in flight being the main shaft and the harder olive wood at the tip is less likely to split upon impact. I used bamboo, beech, cherry in the same way for those reasons on my last arrow. - "the arrows may have been coated in birch tar for aesthetic appeal'....Nah it's functional to keep them dry. If those get wet it will seriously affect your shooting. Same with the bow. No deeper meaning or even master craftmanship involved for this. It is pure practicality. Making arrows is a lot more complicated than making bows in several ways. Arrows are very precious therefore and if you have seen them going to waste because of splitting or weather ruining them....you will improve them using such techniques. Trial and error development which can save you a lot of time and hard work going to waste. People would have discovered those methods many thousands of years before these arrows and strings mentioned ever existed. Imagine if you like...some hunter 30 thousand years ago has made his arrow using only a willow branch...fits an arrowhead onto it...shoots at a horse and watches that arrowhead splitting the shaft in two and the prey escapes...what would you come up with to improve that arrow? You would also make sure the tip of your arrow shaft is hard enough to hold together and penetrate your prey.
Great show, as ever! For those who were in the live chat: - About "levity": I could get very serious about levity. Please keep doing it. Am trying to forestall any curmudgeonly comments about this one. Humans have always needed a bit of dry or even dark humour to sweeten the harsher moments of life - mostly in retrospect, but still. It’s important. Especially for those of the British + Irish habit, where the most important subjects need to include humour in oder to be discussed seriously at all. Whether it’s about who does the dishes or about death, in every conflict a bit of sharp & bleak humour has ever saved us from taking ourselves (and each other) way too seriously. And this is a serious and necessary matter… We NEED humour to cope with life. "Please discuss".
I would have been on the live but I was at my oldest son's birthday celebration. I agree about the levity. sometimes the laughter might be hysterical, but better laughing than crying.
Agreed about the use - the NEED - for humor in tragedy. I'd respond to anyone offended at joking about that brutal slaughter in Somerset, complete with canibalism, *"What? Too soon?"* But, for me, what made it almost hilarious was the detailed interpretation. When I think of marvelous critics of "official" interpretations of the distant past, another Brit comes to mind. Irving Finkel. Of course. But I'm dwelling on the beginning of a long and splendid program covering many fascinating recent discoveries. Thank you both. I was so in the mood for this 😂
Cyprus is really interesting, especially for the earliest known cat burial ( 7.500 BCE). The wild cat (Felix sylvestris lybica) is not native to Cyprus, so it must have been brought here by boat, probably to protect corn seeds against rodents. They could have originated in Türkiye or Syria. Remains of these wild cats are now also known from a Southern Polish cave, from a Neolithic layer dating from 4.200 BCE. They were not mixed with the indigenous wild cats, which means that they were brought here by early farmers, or followed their tracks. I hope that there will be more evidence for early cats in Europe. They could have been partly the ancestors of our domesticated Felix cattus, and shine some light on the domestication of humans by cats.
18:58 what’s the probability that the bodies were placed in the hole at the same time? Why couldn’t it have been done like butchering an individual or two at a time? The potential for a sociopath or psychopath is not out of the realm of probability. I suppose soil analysis could determine the pollen levels to see how long the pit was open and in use before it was covered, to help with the evidence
Fermentation-wise, fermenting foodstuffs acts as a short-term method of preservation and also releases extra nutrients, e.g. yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi etc. It wouldn't be a great leap for people to discover that some fruits & grains, left to ferment a bit too long where the right yeasts & bacteria predominate, had a rather interesting taste & effect! So I'd bet we've been brewing & preserving, all over the world, since the dawn of available vessels, whether pottery, animal skins or tightly-woven bark. Cheers!
Hello Guys! I have listened to this just now and, well, rice beer is a little bit more tricky to understand than malt based beers. Different processes. The saccharification and fermentation occur at the same time with rice beer, aka saki. It involves a starter, a special kind of mould, as the article explains. I know some brewers who brew both saki and malt based beers and they would confirm that the two have very different techniques and processes. I could put you in touch with someone who knows a lot about both. The earliest cereal based beer in the archaeological record was at Gobekli Tepe. This kind of malt based beer brewing still seems to be controversial with some archaeologists! However, making malt and malt sugars from the grain (barley, wheat, rye) came first, long before brewing at Gobekli Tepe was established. Probably in the Palaeolithic. With this sort of beer brewing the saccharification occurs in the mash tun, the fermentation into alcohol happens later. Oh dear, I reckon that explaining the brewing process is a bit like explaining how to ride a bike to someone who has never seen one. Quite straightforward to do but difficult to put into words. To confuse you a little bit more, rice is used in modern cereal based beer brewing but in a very different way. Rice flakes can be added to the mash tun as an adjunct, giving the grain enzymes more starch to convert into sugars. It lightens the malt bill as well, because rice is cheaper than malt. Someone mentions Coors Beers below. That's how they use rice in their beers. Cheers! Merryn.
The monument for The Great Fire is a telescope. The entire thing is a barrel with lens setting mounts up at the top and in the floor for the basement observatory. It was obsolete the minute it was built, being stationary and all. There was some initial use, not much.
T.C. Boyle wrote a humorous short story about competitive beer can collectors searching for the rarest example of a Pre-Columbian brew in ""Quetzlcoatl Lite"."
Speaking of prehistoric cannibalism, has anyone heard of the archeological site in New Mexico USA involving the Anasazi tribe. Acts of cannibalism appeared to take place over a long period of time from 1700 bc to 800 Ad. This is a very politically charged topic. An excellent vid put out by Timeline youtube channel says it was a group of Aztecs that invaded the area and performed these acts. Amazing video with compelling evidence that this took place. It was mind blowing
So far as I'm aware, there are quite a few theories going around about on this topic. I'd be very keen to hear if there's ever a definitive one! Also interesting to note that the indigenous people of the area have oral traditions telling them that "very bad things happened there".
@weethree2070 yes, i had heard about the oral history from the tribes in that area. However one point i didn't realize is the Azteca society did exist until 400 yrs after.
I love Rupert's new jumper. I would have watched last night but I was at my oldest son's, celebrating his 40th (eek!) birthday! 'than what I am' made me think of Ernie Wise and the plays what he wrote! And 10 seconds to go!
A tale: Two people tried to go into the flames and the neighbors stopped them by hitting them in the head thinking they would stop, but hit them too hard and killed them by accident. What they inhaled was as they were trying to save their family members.
For crying out loud, the Sky Disk of Nebra is one of the most thoroughly investigated archaeological objects of the last 25 years. They examined the origins of the copper years ago, not just recently. What was this claim about forgery in the first place? Who made it, and what are their credentials? Is it about someone being offended that one of the oldest astronomical depictions didn’t originate in the Middle East and therefore must be fake?
Some spears and arrows were made to deliberately lose their point within the prey, and the rest of the arrow could be retrieved and reunited with their points after butchery.
Taking offense at someone laughing at traumatic events is a cultural form of prejudice. People in many cultures react in different ways, and laughter during duress or shock can be well accepted as normal behavior.
The first segment should be titled "Archaeologists again invent fantastic stories about Prehistory with no real evidence". They might also have conjectured that the people involved were the ancestors of two certain families in Verona... Given that bones of 37 victims were recovered, the attackers must have been *at least* as many; possibly 50 or more. If they were hungry, they may not have been satisfied with a few animals that they or their victims had hunted. Also, the animal bones may be irrelevant, because the shaft may have been used as refuse dump by the victims for some time before the attack.
Nice podcast. Enjoy your skeptical takes on some of the analytic leaps taken by the professional archeologists-how can they possibly know whether there was fightback, etc.
This tendency of researchers to jump to unsupported conclusions seems to be the rule rather than the exception. It's not surprising, but disturbing nonetheless.
Why do you jump to the conclusion that researchers tend to jump to unsupported conclusions? Who exactly suggests a conclusion has been reached, the researchers or someone reporting the research?
You seem to be overdoing the scepticism here chaps. Modern forensic examination of both living and dead victims of violence has led to knowledge of the sorts of injuries victims of violence, eg domestic, suffer when trying to avoid death. Eg commonly slashing injuries to forearms. I assume the detailed report lists such things that are not evident here.
Seriously! It's a bit disappointing to see, considering the rise in anti-intellectualism and disbelief in experts in their fields. The idea that those of us that engage with these topics as HOBBYISTS know just as much as the experts or that experts know just as little as us, is quite frankly, dangerous.
They need to attempt to DNA sequence the Somerset remains, to see how closely related the individuals were, signature the tooth enamel bioapatite isotopes, to identify if they're local to the area. Check old social media posts, graffiti in the local pub toilets, .... , to attempt establish a motive.
Are scientists saying "this is exactly what happened"? No. They are saying "judging by presence of X and absence of Y, this and that happened" They are forming theory based on available facts AKA doing science
How is it determined that all the cannibalised victims were all killed at once? Perhaps a family of cannibals lived in the cave, and killed one person per month, or per week, and eventually died out themselves, or were somehow killed, or moved on ? Remember the story of Sawney Bean, patriarch of a cave-dwelling cannibal family who robbed, killed and ate travellers; a well known character in modem Scotland. How do they tell that it IS a bowstring, and not part of a sling, for example ? Neolithic ancestors' skulls handled for generations as drinking bowls ? When are you guys going to discuss the Neolithic in Australia ? I noticed the blue headline in one paper about a "fat kangaroo" !
Why bother to throw the bones away in a pit after defleshing them? Why not just leave them where they were butchered? The bodies of the vikings found in Dorest were just left there.
I am so glad I found you guys! You have been saving my sanity in all the worry about things in America. Ignore the news- go to the prehistory guys!
Same. They are so nice to listen to!
This👆. Man, wish there was an upvote here on RUclips!
Except for the joking and not taking their work seriously!!
The grand view of humanity makes America seem like a spec in time❤ thanks
Me too. ❤
I love you guys! The self deprecating British humor is always wonderful. As are Rupert’s sweaters (jumpers). -An American fan girl.
I really appreciate you two fellows. Your take on the news is so much better than any of the other options. Thanks for I hope this comes through liked. Thanks
Here's the explanation of the arrows you were wondering about;
- A composite arrow is not that surprising. The reed was used at the rear because it notches well to accommodate the bowstring. The willow for it's flexibility in flight being the main shaft and the harder olive wood at the tip is less likely to split upon impact. I used bamboo, beech, cherry in the same way for those reasons on my last arrow.
- "the arrows may have been coated in birch tar for aesthetic appeal'....Nah it's functional to keep them dry. If those get wet it will seriously affect your shooting. Same with the bow.
No deeper meaning or even master craftmanship involved for this. It is pure practicality. Making arrows is a lot more complicated than making bows in several ways. Arrows are very precious therefore and if you have seen them going to waste because of splitting or weather ruining them....you will improve them using such techniques. Trial and error development which can save you a lot of time and hard work going to waste. People would have discovered those methods many thousands of years before these arrows and strings mentioned ever existed.
Imagine if you like...some hunter 30 thousand years ago has made his arrow using only a willow branch...fits an arrowhead onto it...shoots at a horse and watches that arrowhead splitting the shaft in two and the prey escapes...what would you come up with to improve that arrow?
You would also make sure the tip of your arrow shaft is hard enough to hold together and penetrate your prey.
Great show, as ever! For those who were in the live chat: - About "levity": I could get very serious about levity. Please keep doing it. Am trying to forestall any curmudgeonly comments about this one.
Humans have always needed a bit of dry or even dark humour to sweeten the harsher moments of life - mostly in retrospect, but still. It’s important.
Especially for those of the British + Irish habit, where the most important subjects need to include humour in oder to be discussed seriously at all.
Whether it’s about who does the dishes or about death, in every conflict a bit of sharp & bleak humour has ever saved us from taking ourselves (and each other) way too seriously.
And this is a serious and necessary matter… We NEED humour to cope with life.
"Please discuss".
Nope, nowt to discuss - humour is vital and curmudgeons are to be avoided 😃
I would have been on the live but I was at my oldest son's birthday celebration. I agree about the levity. sometimes the laughter might be hysterical, but better laughing than crying.
Agreed about the use - the NEED - for humor in tragedy. I'd respond to anyone offended at joking about that brutal slaughter in Somerset, complete with canibalism, *"What? Too soon?"* But, for me, what made it almost hilarious was the detailed interpretation. When I think of marvelous critics of "official" interpretations of the distant past, another Brit comes to mind. Irving Finkel. Of course. But I'm dwelling on the beginning of a long and splendid program covering many fascinating recent discoveries. Thank you both. I was so in the mood for this 😂
One of these days someone will send you "Mick Aston jumpers" and knitted hats of many colours.
Thank you for your sense of humour. Please stay the way you are.
Merry Christmas to you both and all the best for your adventures in 2025 🎉
If I could subscribe multiple times I would. The Punch and Judy joke alone would drive me to multiples. :)
More please! Love you Two
In America, rice beer is called "Coors". . .
and Coors is a big part of the death of Bass Ale.
Bronze age victims cannibalized: insert joke about British food here
You guys are so empathetic to the pain of others ❤
Cyprus is really interesting, especially for the earliest known cat burial ( 7.500 BCE). The wild cat (Felix sylvestris lybica) is not native to Cyprus, so it must have been brought here by boat, probably to protect corn seeds against rodents. They could have originated in Türkiye or Syria. Remains of these wild cats are now also known from a Southern Polish cave, from a Neolithic layer dating from 4.200 BCE. They were not mixed with the indigenous wild cats, which means that they were brought here by early farmers, or followed their tracks. I hope that there will be more evidence for early cats in Europe. They could have been partly the ancestors of our domesticated Felix cattus, and shine some light on the domestication of humans by cats.
Correction: cat's domestication of humans... 😸😹
Michael, Colds are caused my viruses, not being cold. :). love your show :)
Cold weather lowers immunity in the nose increasing susceptibility to colds.
18:58 what’s the probability that the bodies were placed in the hole at the same time? Why couldn’t it have been done like butchering an individual or two at a time? The potential for a sociopath or psychopath is not out of the realm of probability. I suppose soil analysis could determine the pollen levels to see how long the pit was open and in use before it was covered, to help with the evidence
The multi material arrows are really fascinating.
Fermentation-wise, fermenting foodstuffs acts as a short-term method of preservation and also releases extra nutrients, e.g. yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi etc. It wouldn't be a great leap for people to discover that some fruits & grains, left to ferment a bit too long where the right yeasts & bacteria predominate, had a rather interesting taste & effect! So I'd bet we've been brewing & preserving, all over the world, since the dawn of available vessels, whether pottery, animal skins or tightly-woven bark. Cheers!
Hello Guys! I have listened to this just now and, well, rice beer is a little bit more tricky to understand than malt based beers. Different processes. The saccharification and fermentation occur at the same time with rice beer, aka saki. It involves a starter, a special kind of mould, as the article explains. I know some brewers who brew both saki and malt based beers and they would confirm that the two have very different techniques and processes. I could put you in touch with someone who knows a lot about both.
The earliest cereal based beer in the archaeological record was at Gobekli Tepe. This kind of malt based beer brewing still seems to be controversial with some archaeologists! However, making malt and malt sugars from the grain (barley, wheat, rye) came first, long before brewing at Gobekli Tepe was established. Probably in the Palaeolithic. With this sort of beer brewing the saccharification occurs in the mash tun, the fermentation into alcohol happens later.
Oh dear, I reckon that explaining the brewing process is a bit like explaining how to ride a bike to someone who has never seen one. Quite straightforward to do but difficult to put into words.
To confuse you a little bit more, rice is used in modern cereal based beer brewing but in a very different way. Rice flakes can be added to the mash tun as an adjunct, giving the grain enzymes more starch to convert into sugars. It lightens the malt bill as well, because rice is cheaper than malt. Someone mentions Coors Beers below. That's how they use rice in their beers. Cheers! Merryn.
The rarity of the sky disc shows how many time objects have been recycled into something new.
The monument for The Great Fire is a telescope. The entire thing is a barrel with lens setting mounts up at the top and in the floor for the basement observatory.
It was obsolete the minute it was built, being stationary and all. There was some initial use, not much.
Thanks guys you 🪨
T.C. Boyle wrote a humorous short story about competitive beer can collectors searching for the rarest example of a Pre-Columbian brew in ""Quetzlcoatl Lite"."
My first thought was how did they know it was revenge
They didn't know, they just raised possibility based on available facts
Pottery not needed to brew beer. Gobeckly Tepe brewed beer in stone vats. Party hearty boyos!
Grazie.
Speaking of prehistoric cannibalism, has anyone heard of the archeological site in New Mexico USA involving the Anasazi tribe. Acts of cannibalism appeared to take place over a long period of time from 1700 bc to 800 Ad. This is a very politically charged topic. An excellent vid put out by Timeline youtube channel says it was a group of Aztecs that invaded the area and performed these acts. Amazing video with compelling evidence that this took place. It was mind blowing
So far as I'm aware, there are quite a few theories going around about on this topic. I'd be very keen to hear if there's ever a definitive one! Also interesting to note that the indigenous people of the area have oral traditions telling them that "very bad things happened there".
@weethree2070 yes, i had heard about the oral history from the tribes in that area. However one point i didn't realize is the Azteca society did exist until 400 yrs after.
I love Rupert's new jumper. I would have watched last night but I was at my oldest son's, celebrating his 40th (eek!) birthday! 'than what I am' made me think of Ernie Wise and the plays what he wrote! And 10 seconds to go!
Rupert says a prehistoric cannibal feast was "The Big Takeaway"
A tale: Two people tried to go into the flames and the neighbors stopped them by hitting them in the head thinking they would stop, but hit them too hard and killed them by accident. What they inhaled was as they were trying to save their family members.
For crying out loud, the Sky Disk of Nebra is one of the most thoroughly investigated archaeological objects of the last 25 years. They examined the origins of the copper years ago, not just recently. What was this claim about forgery in the first place? Who made it, and what are their credentials? Is it about someone being offended that one of the oldest astronomical depictions didn’t originate in the Middle East and therefore must be fake?
57:19 or does a burning building collapse causing wounds to the dead?
Yes, subscibe! It's free! And it help the channel.
Here from Arizona
If you're trying to escape a burning, collapsing house, head trauma by roof-beam is possible.
do the lines on Ruperts jumper representing strata in history
You may want to check the Wikipedia article on Minatogawa Man, and the papers linked therein.
Some spears and arrows were made to deliberately lose their point within the prey, and the rest of the arrow could be retrieved and reunited with their points after butchery.
Tortoises being so important make it seem that Terry Pratchett was right (see the Discworld series).
your voices cut into each other(s) great show
Taking offense at someone laughing at traumatic events is a cultural form of prejudice. People in many cultures react in different ways, and laughter during duress or shock can be well accepted as normal behavior.
The first segment should be titled "Archaeologists again invent fantastic stories about Prehistory with no real evidence". They might also have conjectured that the people involved were the ancestors of two certain families in Verona...
Given that bones of 37 victims were recovered, the attackers must have been *at least* as many; possibly 50 or more. If they were hungry, they may not have been satisfied with a few animals that they or their victims had hunted.
Also, the animal bones may be irrelevant, because the shaft may have been used as refuse dump by the victims for some time before the attack.
Nice podcast. Enjoy your skeptical takes on some of the analytic leaps taken by the professional archeologists-how can they possibly know whether there was fightback, etc.
Joining from Georgia, the state not the country! Cheers!
This tendency of researchers to jump to unsupported conclusions seems to be the rule rather than the exception. It's not surprising, but disturbing nonetheless.
Why do you jump to the conclusion that researchers tend to jump to unsupported conclusions? Who exactly suggests a conclusion has been reached, the researchers or someone reporting the research?
@@44point5 We must not have been watching the same video.
@@ariochiv I'd say we're using different dictionaries. In mine, Merriam Webster, speculation and conclusion are not synonymous.
You seem to be overdoing the scepticism here chaps. Modern forensic examination of both living and dead victims of violence has led to knowledge of the sorts of injuries victims of violence, eg domestic, suffer when trying to avoid death.
Eg commonly slashing injuries to forearms. I assume the detailed report lists such things that are not evident here.
Seriously! It's a bit disappointing to see, considering the rise in anti-intellectualism and disbelief in experts in their fields. The idea that those of us that engage with these topics as HOBBYISTS know just as much as the experts or that experts know just as little as us, is quite frankly, dangerous.
I only come here to listen to Rupert's giggles.
Rupert needs Starlink
No never
They need to attempt to DNA sequence the Somerset remains, to see how closely related the individuals were, signature the tooth enamel bioapatite isotopes, to identify if they're local to the area. Check old social media posts, graffiti in the local pub toilets, .... , to attempt establish a motive.
Since the Himmelscheibe von Nebra was found, I've always thought there was something fishy going on. Just a notion.
Why?
@karlkarlos3545 as I said, just a notion. No reason
@@medievalladybird394 Yeah, who needs reasons, am I right? Funny that you missed the part where the false claim was debunked.
@karlkarlos3545 funny, isn't it just that.
"Nobody* needs starlink. Please do not support that 🎄 🎉.
Comes in handy when the Dictators cut you off from communication.
It's also very handy after a disaster when you need to access communication to ask for help.
@oldlifter530 those dictators now own all the means of communication.
@stripeytawney822 yeah but there are two sides and while one side offers me something I can survive with I'll take I.
1280p and 360p Guys
Are scientists saying "this is exactly what happened"? No. They are saying "judging by presence of X and absence of Y, this and that happened" They are forming theory based on available facts AKA doing science
There is a misspelling in the video title
That jumper is so bad im calling the fashion police, charity shop wouldnt take that as a donation 😂
How is it determined that all the cannibalised victims were all killed at once? Perhaps a family of cannibals lived in the cave, and killed one person per month, or per week, and eventually died out themselves, or were somehow killed, or moved on ? Remember the story of Sawney Bean, patriarch of a cave-dwelling cannibal family who robbed, killed and ate travellers; a well known character in modem Scotland.
How do they tell that it IS a bowstring, and not part of a sling, for example ?
Neolithic ancestors' skulls handled for generations as drinking bowls ?
When are you guys going to discuss the Neolithic in Australia ? I noticed the blue headline in one paper about a "fat kangaroo" !
the stuff in coal mines,the cant be but is. carry on.
Dollars?
👍💕❤🙏🎆🎄🎄✨🎄🎄💕❤🙏
Why bother to throw the bones away in a pit after defleshing them? Why not just leave them where they were butchered? The bodies of the vikings found in Dorest were just left there.
If you want to to er the village you would want to clean up your mess a bit
If no one else has posted it, you can go back to 1:16:17 and pause to get a view of the illustration they're talking about at the end.