In 2018, I visited a reconstruction of a stilt village in Switzerland. I believe the information brochure said that although the village is now over water, originally it was on land and the stilts were to guard against occasional flooding. Since Neolithic times the lakes have grown in size so lake side then now appears to be over water.
I was puzzled by the renderings of stilt homes.. I grew up on the Texas coast where raised homes "border" the water. I wondered why the ancients would build "over" water. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. :)
I do not know about Brits but when I was a child in Germany in the 1960s, there were children books about the lake villages in Lake Constance and museum villages showcasing causeway villages in lakes and rivers. It was something you learned about in Kindergarten and visited in elementary school. Most schools also made field trips to all kinds of places with experimental archaeology. I always took that for granted.
With regard to available Veg' and especially carbohydrates around lakeside settlements, have either of you ever eaten Bullrush rhizomes? I tried them after watching a Ray Mears programme. If you did down in the mud in the spring or summer they can easily be gathered. The older ones are tough, need roasting on a bbq and pealing, but the younger pointy ones are so tender they can be eaten raw. Either way they are one of the most satisfying things you could ever wish to put in your mouth. Superb, full of calories and at least as tasty as a new potato. Try it, you wont be disappointed. Best to take them from somewhere where cattle etc have no access as parasites can be an issue.
That’s exactly what I was going to comment. He obviously incorporated history and mythology into his books and I wonder how much people of his generation remembered or knew about this history.
Prehistory Guys should get hold of Steven Colbert on The Late Show (US), because he played a hobbit living in Esgaroth in the movies. Fame! At least 15 minutes.
I've been on a rabbit hole looking at Neolithic man for days now and recently found your channel. Loving all your stuff. And you've been immensely helpful to my research. Thanks for being such a fantastic source of reliable information
Grew up on a Swiss lakeside. Used to tie the dinghy to the many pre-historic stakes. Finding shards - we stopped - it got boring - there are mounds of that stuff. Staked homes in a marsh are a great outlook, defense, dry and you solve the Wolf-problem
They are discussed here (Switzerland) and are taught as part of the standard school history, I think it's more that it not talked about from a British point of view - Stonehenge Stonehenge Stonehenge and more Stonehenge. However in the discussion about where the Amesbury Archer came from (Alps) there is a connection ... isn't there ?
Not surprised it’s part of the curriculum in Switzerland. But even in the general accounts of European prehistory in English, lake settlements are conspicuously absent while the long houses and death pits of the LBK for example are discussed at length. A massive imbalance. Hope we help to redress it. Michael.
There is a huge focus on the archaeology of Great Britain in the public consciousness, thanks to the dominance of the English language. An American friend of mine raved the other day about how he wished to live in the UK, because "everywhere you dig, you find an archaeological site." Turns out he has seen a lot of Time Team on RUclips over the last couple of years. The idea that the whole continent is littered with archaeology of all the different cultures of the last 4,000 years never seemed to occur to him.
@@karlkarlos3545Yes, I envy my mother, when she was a child in Germany, used to explore and play in medieval tunnels that would end up in neighbor’s cellars. They were made as escape routes for the inhabitants of the Tiefburg, an old fortress just about 100 meters from her home.
UK archaeology is NOT Stonehenge, Stonehenge, Stonehenge - even if we mention pre-Celtic, pre-Roman history. Orkney and the Outer Hebrides alone have archaeology at least as important as Stonehenge. Skara Brae, Maes Howe, the Ring of Brodgar, the Standing Stones of Stenness... All of them, and others, stand up to Stonehenge in importance. (Typed before I have finished watching this video which continues in the background!).
There are many modern stilt villages in places such as Malaysia and PNG. Hanuabada is a suburb of Port Moresby, a visit gives you an insight into how such a prehistoric site might have developed as part of a larger village. And isn't Venice fundamentally a stone-built stilt village?
Interesting what you say about bone tools being less in the archaeological record. The kist of bones found in 1 of the Tas Tepelar sites was mainly large and medium mammals, but included Gerbils and Hamsters, which I don't feel would provide much meat. Where they bred or caught for their fine bone to make needles, toothpicks, etc?! 🤷♂️
I read somewhere - can't remember where - that hamsters and gerbils used to be quite a large size, thus providing meat. Possibly the size of guinea pigs, which are still a meat source in the Andes regions, and are bred for that purpose.
My head was very much exploded, thank you. With the three-storied lake houses and incorporated stone parts, as well as the defensive/idyllic contrast aspect of the lake towns from east to west. Wonderful! I would love to know more of course.
Surprised that you are surprised … lakeside Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements are being taught in school and are very much in the public conscience at least in Central Europe, where I come from … no surprise there, except the earliest dating is still vague. Furthermore, the Crannogs in your own country… seen some replicas in Scotland fit right in!
Absolutely - no surprise at all that they are celebrated in Central Europe. It's the inequality of representation in our English texts that is surprising. If they were reported properly for us, we would hear about them alongside the Linearbandkeramik cultures and the Cardial Ware cultures - but we don't. As for crannogs - we don't think they are comparable. They are not whole settlements by the water - they are single buildings over water - or even just artificial islands in the water. All best, Michael
I think this is actually an incredibly rich and fruitful period in prehistoric archeology but, unsurprisingly, also very confusing because of the flood of new finds that archeologists are still trying to fit into a comprehensive framework. Sites like Karahan Tepe have required a complete rethinking, for example, of our traditional understanding of the sequencing and relationship of settlement and agriculture. DNA information is revolutionizing our understanding of human migration and modern humans’ relationship to other hominid species. This is something to be welcomed! We are learning so much.
Building over water was a purely defensive measure. Not against men but against something far darker. My Great Grandfather told me about his own father and grandmother. She was widowed with four young sons in the late 1830’s. She contacted her brothers who had moved to what would become far northern Missouri to inform them of her plight. Their immediate response was come to us. We will help you and build you a cabin. By the time she arrived the cabin was built but the openings between the logs were still unfinished because of an extreme early freeze. Out of necessity they moved in. The cabin was small so they pulled their beds close together in the center of the room. Not for warmth but to survive. They would wake up in the middle of the night to wolves shoving their paws between the openings raking away at the sleeping children. You build over water because most predators don’t swim. You elevate the buildings above the water line not because of flooding but because if the lake freezes the animals still can’t reach the platforms. You do not drink water from where you live because of human waste and debris. Tell me, what Neolithic predators where there in Europe and England and what would you do to protect your family from them?
I like your theory, It surly has a role to play in the selection of these sites. But think twice of Pallasades, Bon fires, watchmen and Dogs. There are many ways to defend a villiage and putting the villiage over water surley helps, but i think it is just one of many reasons to build on such a site. Easy access to food and water would be in my opinion the main objective of settling lake-side.
The more people and animals the more predators you attract. They could either waste energy and materials to build palisades. Gathering wood to build fires 365 days a year and run the risk of death fighting these creatures With the weapons and tools available to them at that time. Or you build over the water with a single ramp which can be blocked at night. Two watchmen can alert the entire village if animals get onto the ramp and most likely simply drive them away with torches and sound. Which way would you rather live?
It makes sense for the earliest Neolithic-these farmers would have stores of food, of course (that’s why they were successful in living sedentary lives)! Safe to assume that perhaps all the forest animals would not yet have been overhunted in earliest Neolithic. And since people were now living in fixed locations, their cooking over fires would produce irresistible scents to wolves, foxes, bobcats, wolverines, and rats, rats, rats!
I might have preferred to actually learn more about these villages than just hearing you guys expounding and exclaiming on how they’re not in the narrative…
Maybe it's because I live in northern Italy, but that's quite accessible info, as long as you are interested in prehistory/archaeology; from the early villages on the lakes in the Alps, to the Terramare of the bronze age, and even beyond in some places like (if I'm not mistaken)lake Bracciano.
The cultures in arid places survives more often and is more obvious to spot and humans value things that have lasted over long periods. It’s a bias in our culture I think. And why the most prominent religions today come from desert cultures. It’s much more difficult to figure out what the people of the Amazon were up to 2000 years ago. Same with the people on the west coast of the US. Profundity is just as likely to be found at the beach as it is in a canyon or a sand dune.
At Flag Fen, there is a Bronze Age village of round houses (instead the rectangular ones in mainland Europe), which is preserved very well. Probably there were more such villages. These were built on stilts. There I also the Meare Lake Village near Glastonbury from the Iron Age. But the Island was artificially raised, but the houses were not on stilts. Similar but smaller Islands are known nearby and elsewhere in Southern England. In Lough Gur in Ireland there were raised Islands from the later Neolithicum. Smaller fortified raised Islands of wood and stones, known as Crannogs, were in use in Scotland and Ireland (and one in Wales). The earliest were Neolithic and Bronze Age, but the majority are from the Iron Age and ‘Dark Ages’, and some were still in use at the end of the Middle Ages.
The apple issue requires some cross disciplinary knowledge. Sweet apples are native to central Asia (I don't remember exactly where), where apples in an inordinate variety grow wild in the mountains (since they do not grow true to type from seed). Therefore sweet apples in Europe are by necessity "domesticated". They're only there because someone deliberately brought seeds to grow. (Although most words for apple seem to be derived in some way from a Caucasian language much later).
I just rewatched The Lost City of Z. I read the book years ago. The online debate was all about Col Fawcett being a weird Edwardian. Apparently no one had bothered reading Dr Heckenberger: The ECOLOGY of Power. A civilization in the Amazon that parallels the Egyptians' or Babylonian impact should be taught in K through 6. But it seems to be ignored 160 years later. Early european is similar. Thank you for your show.
I gues that a part of the problem is that most archeology is somewhat nationalistic in scope and most findings is presented in the national languages, and so preventing a good detailed overwiev of a time where the different cultures spread did not follow the national borders of today.
I'm afraid you're right that it's hard to find interesting information because it is written in a language that isn't English (f.e. German, Italian, Greek). Maybe only the Dutch prefer to write in English (I think so because I am Dutch and found that all information on prehistory in the Netherlands written in Dutch was for school children).
Of course I knew about the lake-side dwellings. But that's because my search is for information on neolithic TEXTILES, not for stones ... (although some tools for textile production were made of stone/ceramics)
Hey! Thanks Prehistory Guys! I find it mind-expanding to 'discover' that our expectations for terrestrial habitations being the MAIN habitational areas in prehistory might need rethinking! From my own experience in California and in Costa Rica, lakeside/waterside dwelling is a definite THING, although in neither case is there evidence of stilted houses. But, water margins are hugely productive ecosystems! And, with higher population densities, water dwellings become important for defense, as in the case of the Valley of Mexico. Although I have to object to the idea of collecting water under the settlement; I'm guessing that would be pretty gross. You guys are an inspiration, and a lot of fun!
How much have you include of the Indigenous Australian Culture, which remained Neolithic (or possibly Mesolithic) up until the middle of last Century ( i.e. during my childhood) ? This also would include that of surrounding areas, like New Guinea an the Tiwi and Torres Strait and other Pacific Islands It strikes me that a lot of the concepts of European "Stone-age" culture could be interpreted by studying these People, who's history supposedly dates back presently to Mungo Lady and Mungo Man, who lived in the region now known as the Willandra Lakes, western New South Wales, around 42,000 years ago during the late Pleistocene! Mungo Lady also provides some of the earliest evidence in the world for the practice of cremation.
Naming something after where it was first found is very common. EG Skulls of _Homo sapiens neanderthalensis_ have been found all over most of Europe and Asia, but they are named after a valley in Germany. In microbiology, the "type strain" of a bacterium is almost always the first one isolated, named and studied, and most type strains turn out to be very atypical. {:o:O:}
I thought that, at the very least, the Hallstatt culture was often enough talked about to inform even the most mildly interested in Prehistory. The same goes for the Scottish and Irish Crannogs, which are even older. I always wondered why people would want to live on an artificial island inside a lake. Was it for security? What was so frightening that one would rather cram onto a tiny island instead of just making a rampart? The earliest crannogs go back to the Mesolithic….its all so enigmatic
There's a story in the oera linda book of rowers (from Africa if im not mistaken) that couldn't return back to their country...wind, stream, season...can't remember exactly why. Because they had different customs and believes, they would be kept separate of the villagers and provided the rowers with everything they needed. They were kept separate so the villagers could not be influenced, tho ,if the rowers would want to learn about the villagers language and become a frya , they could. The story also tells how the rowers got there in the first place, and how they left (spoiler allert) after "a" flood (probably not the big deluge) destroyed everything (probably somewhere in the Netherlands/Belgium region) and they saved a lot of frya women and took them as wives. I suggest y'all go read that stuff yourselves, or find videos on RUclips
trying to find the DFB episode of the divers in a loch in the outer hebrides, where they found that the island at the edge was artificial, the base for a cranog and dated to the neolithic???
Eilean Dhomhnaill in Loch Olabhat in North Uist started in the Neolithic, pottery suggests 3200-2800 BCE. There might be others, and I don’t know if this was the one of Time Team, but I remember some diver who found early pottery on several spots already.
Perhaps people learnt from experience that rivers were risky and less predictable places to live due to flooding or even drought? Lakes are more predictable, takes a lot more water to affect water level and a lot longer to dry out?
No, we don't agree that they are similar. Crannogs are single buildings built over water or artificial islands IN the water as opposed to whole settlements close to water. Yes there's plenty of info about them too - they are one of Rupert's particular fascinations and they're not restricted to the Iron Age either. Our friend Duncan Garrow is a crannog specialist and he's been excavating underwater at a Neolithic crannog on Lewis, close to Calanais recently. Cheers, Michael
Sorry. that I didn't mention this on the Patreon version, but please consider that the use of 'Pompey' in the description of Must Farm means that there was a disaster where the destruction was frozen in a single moment, not just that something is old and fallen into desuetude. This investigation is really, really interesting. Thank you.
I can't understand your amazement that people in the past lived near water - lakes, rivers, the seashore! Where are most cities built by preference today? As for stone buildings on 'stilts' - never heard of Venice? Before 13000 - 25000 years ago, sea levels were far lower than today, so many settlements are now lost. Likewise, there were lost settlements under the Black Sea. The Neanderthal caves at Gibraltar are the surviving remnants of those that were on the ancient shorelines, now way out from the modern coast. Graham Hancock, for one 'amateur ' has been on about this for years, without much recognition, other than snide remarks
But we’re not amazed that people lived near water - that would be crazy. Where did you get that idea? What we’re amazed at is that it is not more reported or included in current narratives in English of the prehistory of Europe.
You have knowledge on one hand, and "the narrative" on the other. The narrative often doesn't include everything you should know. It's normally just a promotion of things that make money.
@@Oddball5.0 Huh! Someone should tell Egypt, Greece, and Rome that archaeology doesn't make money. And how helpful that there is no "narrative!" Science always gets every theory right the first time - they may as well skip the theory level and go straight to laws - and they never unfairly criticize or punish people for making new discovries that upend the old narrative. Aren't you a little brainwashed? You sound like a cult member, not a scientist.
Must Village in Cambridgeshire is a Bronze Age village in what was a swampy fen and possibly defensive. It isn't quite as old as the ones on the continent but the really "pre-English" ones were likely on the rivers and mashes of the now submerged Dogger land. Keep looking and they will show up. You folks need to work out a way to produce a way to dry dig in Dogger Land. I'm pretty sure the technology exists if the interest can be generated. Study the current stilt settlements existing today in SE Asia. Those are rather extensive. Lake Texcoco was the building site the Aztecs chose to build their pile driven capitol on and in the 1500s the Spanish drained the lake and built the current Mexico City over. Lots of stuff get remodeled sometimes in a way that obscures the original form.
Some of the ancient dna suggests that there may have been a trade of people within the societies/cultures. Information must have been currency before ingots or money & trading people between cultures would establish a governing kind of system with the sharing of knowledge.
I also find it hubris that we don’t consider that these people who are breeding animals and cultivating plants are not also doing such things within their populations.
6:12 alright, I've played this four times. Can't understand what you said there the heck at all. What culture? From where? Can you mumble through that again for me with a little less accent?😅
12:25 linguistically, you're chasing your own tail at this point. You're English! Master the language and cut out the B.S.! Holy smokes! One sentence! Not an essay or a paragraph! 😅 Wow... Just... Wow. This is becoming a waste of my time.😂 Please understand that you have thousands of people who follow this channel. Multiply the time of your video by the number of views- that's how much time, in man hours, that you're eating up. Time that could be better put towards building an economy or planting a garden... I understand fumbling across your words, but please don't subject thousands of people to the verbal roundabout. Edit!😅
Think of this as a visit with two interesting friends who have just discovered something that is news to them. They are sharing it with us. We enjoy the visit. @deemushroomguy
I think every archaeologist wants to think that their site is special. But as you said the people were just people doing what people do. Lake villages were just people's homes, roundels to stop cattle straying or wolves attacking, sanitation and water systems etc. Isn't it what we all would do in their situation?
Look at people who live in staked buildings by lakes/rivers today - South-East Asia, etc. Multistory - maybe to live above the animals, and further from the mozzies (and their diseases).
I see many towns and villages in the UK should have taken a leaf out of the ancient book and not built houses on flood planes, or should have incorporated stilts, or wish they had 🤔😂
Yes! Academia is over specialized. Yet we have many Neolithic cultural memes existing all across Europe across thousands of years. Lakeside settlement patterns are just one, Megalithic building technology is another, as are spirals, as is a common language (Akkadian) found on later runic texts all across Europe which show they had a common religion. Hence this culture needs a name which I call the Ancient Druid Culture.
I think Francis Pryor might have a bit to say about the people and age in Britain you are speaking of. He seems to have a bit of a bug up his bum for iron age, lake dwellers.
5,750 BC is early Neolithic for the Alps, around 5 thousand years before the Iron Age. Francis Pryor would call them a temple and claim religious ritual😂
Yes, this show is about European Neolithic lake people but they seem to have been talking about lake cultures in general. Being British I am sure these two can't be ignorant of Priors work in Britain. And guaranteed that Neolithic lake settlements were also ritualistic and religious as well as functional.
I suddenly want to play Ark Survival Evolved and pretend to be these people and build a settlement. Or maybe Minecraft, with some sort of stone-age crafting mod.
What if dinosaurs could shoot electricity - rays and eels can do this now (the legends of fire breathing dragons). Living on lakes could divert strikes. We have had language since we were marmosets - Prairie Dogs still have nouns, verbs, adjectives and grammar. That is since the time of the extinction of the dinosaurs. Which ties up nicely do the origins of modern mammals. Why do you think beavers became so successful?
I was raised in a christian fundamentalist cult that clims humanity if 6000 years old. It's so interesting to learn more about our history I was never taught about! Thanks for your work!
In 2018, I visited a reconstruction of a stilt village in Switzerland. I believe the information brochure said that although the village is now over water, originally it was on land and the stilts were to guard against occasional flooding. Since Neolithic times the lakes have grown in size so lake side then now appears to be over water.
I was puzzled by the renderings of stilt homes.. I grew up on the Texas coast where raised homes "border" the water. I wondered why the ancients would build "over" water. Thanks for confirming my suspicion. :)
I do not know about Brits but when I was a child in Germany in the 1960s, there were children books about the lake villages in Lake Constance and museum villages showcasing causeway villages in lakes and rivers. It was something you learned about in Kindergarten and visited in elementary school. Most schools also made field trips to all kinds of places with experimental archaeology. I always took that for granted.
Yes, and I vividly remember a reconstruction effort being shown on children's TV (Sendung mit der Maus)
With regard to available Veg' and especially carbohydrates around lakeside settlements, have either of you ever eaten Bullrush rhizomes? I tried them after watching a Ray Mears programme. If you did down in the mud in the spring or summer they can easily be gathered. The older ones are tough, need roasting on a bbq and pealing, but the younger pointy ones are so tender they can be eaten raw. Either way they are one of the most satisfying things you could ever wish to put in your mouth. Superb, full of calories and at least as tasty as a new potato. Try it, you wont be disappointed. Best to take them from somewhere where cattle etc have no access as parasites can be an issue.
So the bullrush is both food and material (imagine what you can weave with it ...)
I think Tolkien based his Esgaroth, the Lake-Town in the Hobbit, on some of the Neolitihic lake villages.
That’s exactly what I was going to comment. He obviously incorporated history and mythology into his books and I wonder how much people of his generation remembered or knew about this history.
Prehistory Guys should get hold of Steven Colbert on The Late Show (US), because he played a hobbit living in Esgaroth in the movies. Fame! At least 15 minutes.
I've been on a rabbit hole looking at Neolithic man for days now and recently found your channel. Loving all your stuff. And you've been immensely helpful to my research. Thanks for being such a fantastic source of reliable information
Grew up on a Swiss lakeside. Used to tie the dinghy to the many pre-historic stakes. Finding shards - we stopped - it got boring - there are mounds of that stuff. Staked homes in a marsh are a great outlook, defense, dry and you solve the Wolf-problem
who put 10p in you bae
They are discussed here (Switzerland) and are taught as part of the standard school history, I think it's more that it not talked about from a British point of view - Stonehenge Stonehenge Stonehenge and more Stonehenge. However in the discussion about where the Amesbury Archer came from (Alps) there is a connection ... isn't there ?
Not surprised it’s part of the curriculum in Switzerland. But even in the general accounts of European prehistory in English, lake settlements are conspicuously absent while the long houses and death pits of the LBK for example are discussed at length. A massive imbalance. Hope we help to redress it. Michael.
There is a huge focus on the archaeology of Great Britain in the public consciousness, thanks to the dominance of the English language. An American friend of mine raved the other day about how he wished to live in the UK, because "everywhere you dig, you find an archaeological site." Turns out he has seen a lot of Time Team on RUclips over the last couple of years. The idea that the whole continent is littered with archaeology of all the different cultures of the last 4,000 years never seemed to occur to him.
@@karlkarlos3545Yes, I envy my mother, when she was a child in Germany, used to explore and play in medieval tunnels that would end up in neighbor’s cellars. They were made as escape routes for the inhabitants of the Tiefburg, an old fortress just about 100 meters from her home.
UK archaeology is NOT Stonehenge, Stonehenge, Stonehenge - even if we mention pre-Celtic, pre-Roman history. Orkney and the Outer Hebrides alone have archaeology at least as important as Stonehenge. Skara Brae, Maes Howe, the Ring of Brodgar, the Standing Stones of Stenness... All of them, and others, stand up to Stonehenge in importance. (Typed before I have finished watching this video which continues in the background!).
@@raymondporter2094 Stonehenge is just for the tourists :)
There are many modern stilt villages in places such as Malaysia and PNG. Hanuabada is a suburb of Port Moresby, a visit gives you an insight into how such a prehistoric site might have developed as part of a larger village. And isn't Venice fundamentally a stone-built stilt village?
Interesting what you say about bone tools being less in the archaeological record. The kist of bones found in 1 of the Tas Tepelar sites was mainly large and medium mammals, but included Gerbils and Hamsters, which I don't feel would provide much meat. Where they bred or caught for their fine bone to make needles, toothpicks, etc?! 🤷♂️
I read somewhere - can't remember where - that hamsters and gerbils used to be quite a large size, thus providing meat. Possibly the size of guinea pigs, which are still a meat source in the Andes regions, and are bred for that purpose.
In Rome they ate dormice
It was lively! :-D Lake Constance is only about 100 km from me, and I have not managed to visit the "Pfahlbauten-Museum". Project for next summer.
I’ve been in there in Unteruhldingen more than 40 years ago. I wonder if it needs much repair over the years.
My head was very much exploded, thank you. With the three-storied lake houses and incorporated stone parts, as well as the defensive/idyllic contrast aspect of the lake towns from east to west. Wonderful! I would love to know more of course.
This was so fun! Thank you. :)
Surprised that you are surprised … lakeside Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements are being taught in school and are very much in the public conscience at least in Central Europe, where I come from … no surprise there, except the earliest dating is still vague. Furthermore, the Crannogs in your own country… seen some replicas in Scotland fit right in!
Absolutely - no surprise at all that they are celebrated in Central Europe. It's the inequality of representation in our English texts that is surprising. If they were reported properly for us, we would hear about them alongside the Linearbandkeramik cultures and the Cardial Ware cultures - but we don't. As for crannogs - we don't think they are comparable. They are not whole settlements by the water - they are single buildings over water - or even just artificial islands in the water. All best, Michael
I think this is actually an incredibly rich and fruitful period in prehistoric archeology but, unsurprisingly, also very confusing because of the flood of new finds that archeologists are still trying to fit into a comprehensive framework. Sites like Karahan Tepe have required a complete rethinking, for example, of our traditional understanding of the sequencing and relationship of settlement and agriculture. DNA information is revolutionizing our understanding of human migration and modern humans’ relationship to other hominid species. This is something to be welcomed! We are learning so much.
it might be better to 'forget' that framework ...
Thank you both! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Mind assuredly blown,many thanks.
Building over water was a purely defensive measure. Not against men but against something far darker. My Great Grandfather told me about his own father and grandmother. She was widowed with four young sons in the late 1830’s. She contacted her brothers who had moved to what would become far northern Missouri to inform them of her plight. Their immediate response was come to us. We will help you and build you a cabin. By the time she arrived the cabin was built but the openings between the logs were still unfinished because of an extreme early freeze. Out of necessity they moved in. The cabin was small so they pulled their beds close together in the center of the room. Not for warmth but to survive. They would wake up in the middle of the night to wolves shoving their paws between the openings raking away at the sleeping children. You build over water because most predators don’t swim. You elevate the buildings above the water line not because of flooding but because if the lake freezes the animals still can’t reach the platforms. You do not drink water from where you live because of human waste and debris. Tell me, what Neolithic predators where there in Europe and England and what would you do to protect your family from them?
I like your theory, It surly has a role to play in the selection of these sites. But think twice of Pallasades, Bon fires, watchmen and Dogs. There are many ways to defend a villiage and putting the villiage over water surley helps, but i think it is just one of many reasons to build on such a site. Easy access to food and water would be in my opinion the main objective of settling lake-side.
The more people and animals the more predators you attract. They could either waste energy and materials to build palisades. Gathering wood to build fires 365 days a year and run the risk of death fighting these creatures With the weapons and tools available to them at that time. Or you build over the water with a single ramp which can be blocked at night. Two watchmen can alert the entire village if animals get onto the ramp and most likely simply drive them away with torches and sound. Which way would you rather live?
It makes sense for the earliest Neolithic-these farmers would have stores of food, of course (that’s why they were successful in living sedentary lives)! Safe to assume that perhaps all the forest animals would not yet have been overhunted in earliest Neolithic. And since people were now living in fixed locations, their cooking over fires would produce irresistible scents to wolves, foxes, bobcats, wolverines, and rats, rats, rats!
That’s what my first thought has always been when learning about these types of sites: it’s gotta be partly-mostly for security.
@@dawnaveealexander6878
That seems very plausible.
{:o:O:}
I might have preferred to actually learn more about these villages than just hearing you guys expounding and exclaiming on how they’re not in the narrative…
Maybe it's because I live in northern Italy, but that's quite accessible info, as long as you are interested in prehistory/archaeology; from the early villages on the lakes in the Alps, to the Terramare of the bronze age, and even beyond in some places like (if I'm not mistaken)lake Bracciano.
You should have titled this video “Secrets That Lakeshore Developers Don’t Want You To Know”!
The cultures in arid places survives more often and is more obvious to spot and humans value things that have lasted over long periods. It’s a bias in our culture I think. And why the most prominent religions today come from desert cultures. It’s much more difficult to figure out what the people of the Amazon were up to 2000 years ago. Same with the people on the west coast of the US. Profundity is just as likely to be found at the beach as it is in a canyon or a sand dune.
Waiting you to dig in Terramare Culture, that would be amazing
Yes please!
The ones that have come to my attention certainly gave the impression of being an occasional thing.
Are there any lake village sites in the English Lake District? If not, why not?
Good question! Let's get a grant to explore it.😊
At Flag Fen, there is a Bronze Age village of round houses (instead the rectangular ones in mainland Europe), which is preserved very well. Probably there were more such villages. These were built on stilts. There I also the Meare Lake Village near Glastonbury from the Iron Age. But the Island was artificially raised, but the houses were not on stilts. Similar but smaller Islands are known nearby and elsewhere in Southern England. In Lough Gur in Ireland there were raised Islands from the later Neolithicum. Smaller fortified raised Islands of wood and stones, known as Crannogs, were in use in Scotland and Ireland (and one in Wales). The earliest were Neolithic and Bronze Age, but the majority are from the Iron Age and ‘Dark Ages’, and some were still in use at the end of the Middle Ages.
Hi, I'd love to know the botanical name of the plant in the glass case behind Rupert. Does it come with a story?
The apple issue requires some cross disciplinary knowledge. Sweet apples are native to central Asia (I don't remember exactly where), where apples in an inordinate variety grow wild in the mountains (since they do not grow true to type from seed). Therefore sweet apples in Europe are by necessity "domesticated". They're only there because someone deliberately brought seeds to grow. (Although most words for apple seem to be derived in some way from a Caucasian language much later).
In Italy we have many sites. "Lucone", "Polpenazze" are famous sites. We ahave also the "Terramare" culture that is strictly bond to water.
I think it's easier to find funds for the first sign of inequality rather than a farming fence
😂 👍
It would be helpful if you would link to the studies you're referencing in your description.
I just rewatched The Lost City of Z. I read the book years ago. The online debate was all about Col Fawcett being a weird Edwardian. Apparently no one had bothered reading Dr Heckenberger: The ECOLOGY of Power. A civilization in the Amazon that parallels the Egyptians' or Babylonian impact should be taught in K through 6. But it seems to be ignored 160 years later. Early european is similar. Thank you for your show.
I gues that a part of the problem is that most archeology is somewhat nationalistic in scope and most findings is presented in the national languages, and so preventing a good detailed overwiev of a time where the different cultures spread did not follow the national borders of today.
I'm afraid you're right that it's hard to find interesting information because it is written in a language that isn't English (f.e. German, Italian, Greek). Maybe only the Dutch prefer to write in English (I think so because I am Dutch and found that all information on prehistory in the Netherlands written in Dutch was for school children).
9.000 - 6.400 BC most settlements was lake villages on poles in Denmark.
No mention of Star Carr on Glacial Lake Pickering in East Yorks .?
Of course I knew about the lake-side dwellings. But that's because my search is for information on neolithic TEXTILES, not for stones ... (although some tools for textile production were made of stone/ceramics)
Hey! Thanks Prehistory Guys! I find it mind-expanding to 'discover' that our expectations for terrestrial habitations being the MAIN habitational areas in prehistory might need rethinking! From my own experience in California and in Costa Rica, lakeside/waterside dwelling is a definite THING, although in neither case is there evidence of stilted houses. But, water margins are hugely productive ecosystems! And, with higher population densities, water dwellings become important for defense, as in the case of the Valley of Mexico. Although I have to object to the idea of collecting water under the settlement; I'm guessing that would be pretty gross. You guys are an inspiration, and a lot of fun!
There are stilted houses in Belize
Perfect pronunciation of Ohrid, gents! ❤
How much have you include of the Indigenous Australian Culture, which remained Neolithic (or possibly Mesolithic) up until the middle of last Century ( i.e. during my childhood) ? This also would include that of surrounding areas, like New Guinea an the Tiwi and Torres Strait and other Pacific Islands It strikes me that a lot of the concepts of European "Stone-age" culture could be interpreted by studying these People, who's history supposedly dates back presently to Mungo Lady and Mungo Man, who lived in the region now known as the Willandra Lakes, western New South Wales, around 42,000 years ago during the late Pleistocene! Mungo Lady also provides some of the earliest evidence in the world for the practice of cremation.
Naming something after where it was first found is very common. EG Skulls of _Homo sapiens neanderthalensis_ have been found all over most of Europe and Asia, but they are named after a valley in Germany.
In microbiology, the "type strain" of a bacterium is almost always the first one isolated, named and studied, and most type strains turn out to be very atypical.
{:o:O:}
Enjoyed watching divers go down in small lakes in Scotland finding the homes on the water. Some of the pilings are still intact.
I thought that, at the very least, the Hallstatt culture was often enough talked about to inform even the most mildly interested in Prehistory.
The same goes for the Scottish and Irish Crannogs, which are even older.
I always wondered why people would want to live on an artificial island inside a lake. Was it for security? What was so frightening that one would rather cram onto a tiny island instead of just making a rampart?
The earliest crannogs go back to the Mesolithic….its all so enigmatic
There's a story in the oera linda book of rowers (from Africa if im not mistaken) that couldn't return back to their country...wind, stream, season...can't remember exactly why.
Because they had different customs and believes, they would be kept separate of the villagers and provided the rowers with everything they needed.
They were kept separate so the villagers could not be influenced, tho ,if the rowers would want to learn about the villagers language and become a frya , they could.
The story also tells how the rowers got there in the first place, and how they left (spoiler allert) after "a" flood (probably not the big deluge) destroyed everything (probably somewhere in the Netherlands/Belgium region) and they saved a lot of frya women and took them as wives.
I suggest y'all go read that stuff yourselves, or find videos on RUclips
could the newish moreern tram line run double decker trams or would in not fit modern accessibilty stanadrs,
trying to find the DFB episode of the divers in a loch in the outer hebrides, where they found that the island at the edge was artificial, the base for a cranog and dated to the neolithic???
Time team did an episode
Eilean Dhomhnaill in Loch Olabhat in North Uist started in the Neolithic, pottery suggests 3200-2800 BCE. There might be others, and I don’t know if this was the one of Time Team, but I remember some diver who found early pottery on several spots already.
Not to mention there had been a lot of flooding for thousands of years and so humans adapted
Are you guys both professional archaeologists or amateur enthusiasts?
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Perhaps people learnt from experience that rivers were risky and less predictable places to live due to flooding or even drought? Lakes are more predictable, takes a lot more water to affect water level and a lot longer to dry out?
I love this show.
Similar to the Scottish Crannog? There's plenty info online about the history of these Iron-Age Loch dwellings.
No, we don't agree that they are similar. Crannogs are single buildings built over water or artificial islands IN the water as opposed to whole settlements close to water. Yes there's plenty of info about them too - they are one of Rupert's particular fascinations and they're not restricted to the Iron Age either. Our friend Duncan Garrow is a crannog specialist and he's been excavating underwater at a Neolithic crannog on Lewis, close to Calanais recently. Cheers, Michael
Sorry. that I didn't mention this on the Patreon version, but please consider that the use of 'Pompey' in the description of Must Farm means that there was a disaster where the destruction was frozen in a single moment, not just that something is old and fallen into desuetude. This investigation is really, really interesting. Thank you.
I can't understand your amazement that people in the past lived near water - lakes, rivers, the seashore! Where are most cities built by preference today? As for stone buildings on 'stilts' - never heard of Venice? Before 13000 - 25000 years ago, sea levels were far lower than today, so many settlements are now lost. Likewise, there were lost settlements under the Black Sea. The Neanderthal caves at Gibraltar are the surviving remnants of those that were on the ancient shorelines, now way out from the modern coast. Graham Hancock, for one 'amateur ' has been on about this for years, without much recognition, other than snide remarks
But we’re not amazed that people lived near water - that would be crazy. Where did you get that idea? What we’re amazed at is that it is not more reported or included in current narratives in English of the prehistory of Europe.
But I love it when Bot pulls out a “bish bash bosh”
You have knowledge on one hand, and "the narrative" on the other. The narrative often doesn't include everything you should know. It's normally just a promotion of things that make money.
There is no “the narrative”. And archaeology doesn’t make money rofl 😂
@@Oddball5.0 Huh! Someone should tell Egypt, Greece, and Rome that archaeology doesn't make money. And how helpful that there is no "narrative!" Science always gets every theory right the first time - they may as well skip the theory level and go straight to laws - and they never unfairly criticize or punish people for making new discovries that upend the old narrative.
Aren't you a little brainwashed? You sound like a cult member, not a scientist.
Must Village in Cambridgeshire is a Bronze Age village in what was a swampy fen and possibly defensive. It isn't quite as old as the ones on the continent but the really "pre-English" ones were likely on the rivers and mashes of the now submerged Dogger land. Keep looking and they will show up. You folks need to work out a way to produce a way to dry dig in Dogger Land. I'm pretty sure the technology exists if the interest can be generated. Study the current stilt settlements existing today in SE Asia. Those are rather extensive. Lake Texcoco was the building site the Aztecs chose to build their pile driven capitol on and in the 1500s the Spanish drained the lake and built the current Mexico City over. Lots of stuff get remodeled sometimes in a way that obscures the original form.
Venice?
Some of the ancient dna suggests that there may have been a trade of people within the societies/cultures. Information must have been currency before ingots or money & trading people between cultures would establish a governing kind of system with the sharing of knowledge.
It wouldn’t take long for such a system to evolve into elitism either, especially if widespread hardships occur.
I also find it hubris that we don’t consider that these people who are breeding animals and cultivating plants are not also doing such things within their populations.
But what they were aiming to do would be very difficult to try to get at
6:12 alright, I've played this four times.
Can't understand what you said there the heck at all. What culture? From where? Can you mumble through that again for me with a little less accent?😅
I understood "the Mediterranean" 😂 that's it though. The Med. is big. You're going to have to be a little bit more specific.
12:25 linguistically, you're chasing your own tail at this point.
You're English! Master the language and cut out the B.S.! Holy smokes! One sentence! Not an essay or a paragraph! 😅
Wow... Just... Wow. This is becoming a waste of my time.😂
Please understand that you have thousands of people who follow this channel. Multiply the time of your video by the number of views- that's how much time, in man hours, that you're eating up. Time that could be better put towards building an economy or planting a garden...
I understand fumbling across your words, but please don't subject thousands of people to the verbal roundabout. Edit!😅
Think of this as a visit with two interesting friends who have just discovered something that is news to them. They are sharing it with us. We enjoy the visit. @deemushroomguy
Linearbandkeramik (LBK; 5500-4900 BCE). Google it, I did.
Also, Michael mentioned Otzi, the mummified “iceman” who was found in the Alps and died ~3350 - 3105 BC.
Prehistoric Ozarks
Ports?
I think every archaeologist wants to think that their site is special. But as you said the people were just people doing what people do. Lake villages were just people's homes, roundels to stop cattle straying or wolves attacking, sanitation and water systems etc. Isn't it what we all would do in their situation?
Look at people who live in staked buildings by lakes/rivers today - South-East Asia, etc. Multistory - maybe to live above the animals, and further from the mozzies (and their diseases).
Michael BOTT?
I never knew! 🤣
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I see many towns and villages in the UK should have taken a leaf out of the ancient book and not built houses on flood planes, or should have incorporated stilts, or wish they had 🤔😂
Yes! Academia is over specialized. Yet we have many Neolithic cultural memes existing all across Europe across thousands of years. Lakeside settlement patterns are just one, Megalithic building technology is another, as are spirals, as is a common language (Akkadian) found on later runic texts all across Europe which show they had a common religion. Hence this culture needs a name which I call the Ancient Druid Culture.
I think Francis Pryor might have a bit to say about the people and age in Britain you are speaking of. He seems to have a bit of a bug up his bum for iron age, lake dwellers.
5,750 BC is early Neolithic for the Alps, around 5 thousand years before the Iron Age. Francis Pryor would call them a temple and claim religious ritual😂
Yes, this show is about European Neolithic lake people but they seem to have been talking about lake cultures in general. Being British I am sure these two can't be ignorant of Priors work in Britain. And guaranteed that Neolithic lake settlements were also ritualistic and religious as well as functional.
I suddenly want to play Ark Survival Evolved and pretend to be these people and build a settlement. Or maybe Minecraft, with some sort of stone-age crafting mod.
What if dinosaurs could shoot electricity - rays and eels can do this now (the legends of fire breathing dragons).
Living on lakes could divert strikes.
We have had language since we were marmosets - Prairie Dogs still have nouns, verbs, adjectives and grammar.
That is since the time of the extinction of the dinosaurs.
Which ties up nicely do the origins of modern mammals.
Why do you think beavers became so successful?
I was raised in a christian fundamentalist cult that clims humanity if 6000 years old. It's so interesting to learn more about our history I was never taught about! Thanks for your work!