I love the 'unromantic' trail of civilizations. People are people, and our ancestors are so much smarter and capable than they are given credit for being.
On a sleepless night I came across Standing with Stones and it’s still my favorite video/ movie to listen too to calm my sleeplessness. It’s just so calming. I really enjoy listening to both of you talk about our ancient ancestor’s and I enjoy your connection with each other and your banter. Thank you both for what you do.
OMG i do the same thing in fact i cant go to sleep with out playing it on the TV ,,Before that i used to use Time Team to fall asleep to Tony Robinson has a similar voice
People forget that Gobekli Tepe is actually one of the newer sites among hundreds of Tepe sites nearby. Pretty cool how much more there is left to learn and knowing that it will be older than Gobekli Tepe when it's finally uncovered and studied. We live in an incredible time of discovery.
Michaels & Rupert, congrats lads...you are about to embark on the adventure of a life time!!! All the stars are aligned, figuratively and metaphorically, I can't wait to hear and see about of your adventures! I wish you all the best and safe travels, Barbara xo
The key thing to understand about Globeki Tepi is that only a tiny fraction (less than 5%) has been excavated. Consequently, any conclusions on its role or purpose are still very premature.
@stephenburnage7687 - Community storage buildings and homes have been excavated as well as the religious-type building, so conclusions CAN be drawn. Further discoveries may alter those conclusions, which is exciting. That's how science works - new data = new conclusions. This is one of the huge differences between science and pseudo-science.
@MossyMozart If you place the name "Globeki Tepi" in any search engine, the top results will assure you that the place was built by pre-pottery hunter gatherers. All based on less than 5% of the place being excavated, let alone any understanding as to what the few excavated carvings actually mean. Also minus any context as to what was happening to the planet in the years prior to that.. I would argue that such assertions are the pseudo science. A more honest approach would be to admit that we simply do not know.
PBS says that humans domesticated marijuana plants before any other plants. Can you do an episode about this? Seems like people needed pottery to store their dank nugz before they were storing their food.
Once upon a time my favourite Rupert was Rupert Bear. I think I learnt to read with the strips' captions, wanting to be able to read the whole stories in my book. Since I watched Standing With Stones around 2019, I have a new favourite Rupert. Addicted since then. I'm not so much here for the history, but mostly for you two, seemingly good-natured, friendly and always smiling. What's more, you don't make me feel old. 😊 The history part is ofcourse a bonus.
Hi .. you just reminded me that it was Rupert the Bear that started my joy of reading.. The rhymes first and the stories after. I still have the Annuals that my Grandparents bought me each Xmas from the early 1960s on. With the "magic painting" pages that I could never get right, using a spit soaked finger, instead of a brush. Thankyou 😊
@@petermcbride5568 I don't think I had more than one of the books, 'cause we moved to Germany in 1961, but I do remember being proud of my colouring and wondering why I hadn't won anything. I must have been between six and seven years old and I loved Big Ears and Noddy and the Mary Mouse books as well ( all of which my mother hated) But I am glad Rupert Soskin doesn't wear yellow checkered trowsers. : ) Did you read Beano and Dandy as well?
seen and heard stuff about the Nautufians from these two and others and read a long Smithsonian article today, but it's like re reading a favourite novel every hearing you learn something different. So looking forward to this. 🎉
I like to think she was just fondly remembered as "that person who likes to collect to shells" ❤️ in the same way that when I kick it, people might put little pig figurines or owl figurines in my burial place ☺️
Glad to hear you are on track and I will be with you on the journey, It is wonderful to think of what is BEFORE Gobekli Teppi. I had not got that far. Note on visuals though you may prefer it this way. You are two small heads poking out through sepulchral gloom. Oh! I've got it - two pearls of wisdom.
Surely the most relevant 'context' for Globeki Tepi is that it is dated as immediately following the Younger Dryas (12,900 to 11,700 BP) events (which transitioned earth from the Pleistocein to the present Halocene epoch)? This series of events saw the earth experience a gradual warming, followed by a sudden rapid (unexplained) cooling, followed by a gradual warming, all as established in both Greenland and Antarctic ice core records (ie were global). In other words, whatever civilization built and/or occupied Globeki Tepi had just survived some of the most catastrophic, potentially extinction level (for some species) events experienced by our plannet for at least hundreds of thousands of years.
@MossyMozart Yes, agreed, there are no shortage of whacky theories out there. Nonetheless, there is now a solid, indisputable body of, ice core, sedimentary and tree ring evidence that planet earth experiences major, periodic, extinction level events (at least three in our probable million year history) and yet historians still cling to a misplaced belief that life on earth developed uniformly, unpunctuated by such events.
'cept the rapid cooling wasn't global, Northern, mostly USA/Canada or UK/EU (Atlantic in common?) - this looks like a MOC event, aka the high salinity of the northward-flowing upper waters of the North Atlantic ocean is an essential condition for the formation of deep, cold, dense waters at high latitudes, as part of the meridional overturning circulation (MOC) and if it stops there is a "relatively rapid" cooling (over decades). Turkey/Levant/the Crescent evolving throughout minus at least? 22,000 to 11,700 BP!
I love the nuanced look you guys have of pre history! As a woman, my mind is thinking 🤔 Our human love of bread made is settle, and probably our inability to stop fighting with each other made us settle in large groups to protect our ability to make bread. Keeping animals negated the need for having men to hunt because they were off clobbering each other or we women liked clothes, so we needed lots of sheep/goats to make our ensembles. Lol
@atix50 - So, beer did not create settlements, but the practical, calming effects of women on their societies DID. (Why waste perfectly good bread on making beer? >_
Do not assume women were inclined toward pacifism. Their fields needed protection, and they may well have berated their men into providing status enhancing heads on poles outside their huts.
Warfare definitely predates agriculture, we have evidence of warfare like activity in these homo antecessor that were found in Spain from like 1,000,000 years ago. But you can’t raise large scale armies until agriculture, because you can’t feed armies without it.
So glad to have discovered this channel. I always took the Netflix shows about this site with a very big grain of salt, and just appreciated the entertainment value and whatnot. But I consider this channel more valuable. Coherent, nuanced, honest, and challenging!
I have watched many videos and read much on Gobekli Tepe. Afterwards I could never wrap my head around the theory that small groups of hunter-gathers built this amazing site, traveling around and meeting there to build such a detailed structure. There had to be a core group leading the construction that was residing in the area. As massive as this site is, it would take quite a while to build. I'm betting you will find in time, that there will be discovered a large number communities and cities in the general area with routes all leading to the site.
I've been looking forward to this! Funny thing, I was just debating my brother on this sort of subject. I sent him the world of antiquity video and now this one lol.
@_MikeJon_ - Then you might enjoy an episode on 'The Tel' channel that mentions Göbekli Tepe, not in terms of archeology, but in terms of the origins of religion. (There is also a very good debunking episode there on the Younger Dryas - concise, well-cited, interesting.)
Hahah love it when you forget the name of stuff - we all do - remember the moratorium the bowl used by the Romans for grinding. What an enjoyable podcast - so much to look forward to.
Yes... mankind became more sedentary when they discovered how to make ale from these humungous amounts of cereals they had structures specialised for storage.. barbequed tortoise, which were as ubiquitous as ants, flutes made from wing bones, multiple uses of grasses, beliefs in higher powers, cups made from tree barks, mass production of beaded necklaces to trade.. that all reminds me of how we lived in the fields of late 1970s early 80s Glastonbury festival (before it became the Babylon it is today).... Great show, chaps. I hope the coming trip to Gobekli Tepe is a success, we look forward to the continuing pod casts that you have planned. The Pre History Guys is one of the most engaging "things" on archaeology available on the net along with Crow County Archaeological Centre, your presentations are so uniquely English and all the more enjoyable for it. Peter in North Wales.
I’ve been a ‘lurker’ on your channel for quite a while, but so happy about your trip that I must comment. Have just watched your initial updates on the trip, and returned to this video for more information. Great trip so far - so happy for you both!
What a great adventure! From the Natufian to the Neolithic. You discuss Braidwood's "bread or beer" debate (from the 1950s) but not malt, the crucial ingredient for ale and beer. Hans Helbaek, as part of that debate, considered malting to be an important aspect of grain processing in the world of the early farmers. When you interviewed us four years ago about Neolithic Beer we talked a lot about malt. It's a significant aspect of the story. Sorry if I'm repeating myself but I made a similar comment about this here yesterday and can't find it now. 🙂
So intersting---just like having erudite friends.None of the horrible condescension of other history videos. I do hjope your great adventure brings you joy.
So glad Prof Watkin got a mention, I spent many a happy hour on the flotation at Pinabasi despite having to break the ice first thing later in the dig season, an absolute privilage to pick his brains when he had no option of escape
Love the show. As a parallel to the conjecture about tortoise farming. Down here in Oz, there is much evidence that one group of Aboriginals in the SE managed eels. Channels to increase eel friendly habitat were dug across the landscape, and remnants still exist today. Even if the settlements at the 'eel farms' were not permanent, having a reliable food supply in one part of the landscape, or one period of time in the seasonal round, was a great step forward in food security.
Yes indeed the many Tes Tepler archeological sites being researched for many years and show chronologically all the stages and skills that were taking place culminating in a grand meeting place for hunter gatherers of the region to share knowledge,break bread and feast before deciding to go into agricultural and more permanent settlements. You can see there are t pillars,similar artwork and many other clues and tools all over Tes Tepeler region leading up to the last hurrah of hunter gatherers in Gobekli tepe.
I love that your discussion touches on the problem in our thinking about hunter gatherers necessarily being nomadic. Of course hunter gatherers living in particularly rich environments would remain in place, because there was every incentive to stay and no incentive to move. At the same time, equally intelligent, knowledgeable and skillful people living in more difficult environments necessarily moved about so as not to overtax the resources in any particular location. There were no doubt locations that were good enough for people to stay for extended periods but not so rich that they could remain permanently. Thus, the line between hunter gatherers and early farmers is necessarily rather fuzzy.
Hey lads, I'm watching this podcast on here as my Patreon isn't playing videos very well at all since it's 'new look' launch.... I have a point to raise.... I don't know if you have control over how many adverts RUclips plays during your videos, but there's been a hell of a lot for this one... Like absolutely over kill, to the point I'm 22min in and can't take anymore. It's not something I've ever noticed on your channel before, maybe the odd advert here and there.... Which is totally acceptable on a Freeview platform imo... But every 2 minutes.... Will put a Hella lot of people off viewing the full hour.
Take your point. I'll have a look at that - I suspect that because there aren't any natural breaks (RUclips usually does a reasonable job of placing ads in breaks) it may have saturated the timeline. Thanks Stevo. M.
To me,the art work is the coolest part😊I see the same fox,snakes,boars and jaguars that i swear this guy from the smaller semi permanent site had to have been the same artist that did many of the carvings at Gobekli Tepe. God i would love to have a few beers with that chap. Incredible expressive depictions of local species...wow.
Mmmm I think you should check out a rather famous RUclips history professor who has just released a very concise version of this topic.Would be far easier to point your viewers to that release allowing you to get on with the post Gobekli era which I look forward to.
This is exactly how oral traditions remembered it. Even in the later days of ottoman empire when western soldiers encountered oral traditions and of its geologically on a map where the mouths of the euphratis & tiaras rivers which has such a written record of importance
when you are at chatal, if you have the oppertunity to swing by Pinabasi, its a fabulious little site, spent 3 great seasons digging there 2003 through 5. Karaman is a nice enough place, Konya not so much. enjoy turkey folks, the Konya plain is full of delicious archaeology
Congrats, Guys, from Spain. If once you need any help with the rich Spanish megalithism (is this the right way to write it?), just tell me and I may read articles for you or give you recommendations to look at.
I'm pretty sure beer's contribution to the development of civilisation is underrated. After all most of the time water was unfit to drink because of (then) unknown bacteria whereas the first step in brewing is boiling the water and killing the bacteria in the process.
Rotting fruit wouldve been so easy to identify once a hungry person gorged themselves with it lol I find it to be more wild how little people today think of ancient minds. Most of what I encounter is a poor modern disconnect with natural human abilities and or labor oriented qualities
So ? What you're saying is :- "Early settled humans spent their time making and drinking beer whilst tortoise farming." ! Now that really does sound like a 'Garden of Eden' life style. 😊
The hunter gatherers we found in the last 400 years were the last ones living on the most marginal land, so they had to be nomadic. Farmers, mostly agriculturalist, had already taken all the quality land that would let you be sedentary and still be hunters, gatherers, and horticulturalist.
When you go to Turkey and visit the several places, could you also comment on the geography? What makes these spots different from other areas. I noticed that these sites line up along the threshold between the flat Syria plain and the highlands of Anatolia. P. S. Will you go to Boncuklu Tarla? Is it a coincidence that 12000 years later exactly that spot was chosen as the place for a damn?
Yes. The audio podcast has only just gone live and has been submitted to all the major services, Including Apple and Spotify. I would expect it to take a little while for it to show up in all of them. In the meantime, try the hosting site here: gobekli-tepe-stonehenge.captivate.fm/ Michael.
My theory is that dogs invented beer. If you feed ANY dog beer it will drink it faster than water. Dogs found the drainage from old grain storage and drank it all. People noticed the dog's always drinking it and named it "beer". Beer started in dog-owning cultures.
I think the most interesting thing here is the existence of an intermediate stage between nomadic hunter gatherers and farming communities. The sedentary hunter gatherers that persisted for thousands and thousands of years. It really alters how we see prehistory.
As a child who had tortoises as pets, I agree they can be prolific egg layers. Getting the newly hatched, soft-shelled babies to survive is another thing altogether. Adult tortoises love eating the babies.
I can't wait for this journey to begin! I know you will be travelling north west through the mists of time, following the footsteps of people who decided to explore and settle in the landscapes which were gradually emerging from beneath the retreating glaciers. But will you also consider those who were travelling south east at the same time, esp. from what is now the British Isles, and what might have happened when the two parties met? Is it possible that cultures / practices / materials from prehistoric Britain influenced those in the fertile crescent area (there's a myth about a Mesolithic terrestrial zodiac created in the English Midlands area having found its way to Mesopotamia, and being the basis for the Epic of Gilgamesh). I can imagine such a meeting happening at Stonehenge, actually. Maybe the two groups got on so well, they decided to make it a permanent site. I can imagine people who had come from the Preseli Hills being quite impressed by the what the other group had brought with them, and saying, "Let's go back and get our stuff - the blue stones and things - we'll come back here to live". Weren't there very tall timber posts in the early days? Those could have been for sighting over long distances?
Between genetics and cultural similarities, I'm pretty convinced that at least part of the ancestry of the early Anatolian farmers that entered Mediterranean Europe was from the builders of GT.
No - other sources show Mega Fauna still around. However, even during the 18th century which would you rather hunt - a moose 6ft tall & 1400 pounds that can hurt you or a white tail deer -2.8ft tall & 150 pounds? A dozen rabbits or decent size fish in a stew with vegies can easily feed 25 people. Makes sense to go for the easy prey every day & leave the big stuff for once in a great while.
I'm reminded there was an Australian band called Hunters & Collectors. Numismatists afield, behind duck-blinds perhaps? So perhaps Gathering & Hunting is the transitional stage from Hunting & Gathering? I picture the Far Side panel of "Tell your father, I was raised an H-G, but now I am a G-H!", or something like that. It worked on my father-in-law! ;)
I recall that the Russian team was well settled and well traveled long before they got to Gobekli Tepe and brought their ways and means with them. But do indulge us with your interesting exclusive focus on west eurasia.
10-15 years ago, with Gobekli Tepe, scholars thought they were no anthropomorphic gods or vague beginnings of it and almost only animals. However, the numerous detailed sculptures of anthropomorphic figures at sites contemporary with Gobekli Tepe open the possibility animal and human-type gods (or ancestor worship) had a transitional period were both existed together around 8500-9000 BCE. It's interesting how human and animal figures are in the same sculptures such as animals on the humans' backs or chests.
If you guys are covering Gobekli Tepe, you must cover one of its sister sites called, "Kerehan Tepe." It is far more exciting. It is only a few dozen kilometers away.
If you can get your hands on the highest resolution CO2 numbers you can get (not the smoothed faked out ones), you will see that wheat and barley only grows well enough when CO2 is higher than 250 ppm. Agriculture (and just wild harvesting of the same) only worked when CO2 went above 250 ppm. Younger Dryas was a period when it went back below and hence gathering and planting of wild wheat and barley just quit working. This is also why civilization started and why it worked. In the 100K years of CO2 below 250 ppm, humans had to rely on hunting only because most plants just did not grow well enough. What grew well was C4 grasses and hence we lived off the herbivores that could eat C4 grasses.
At one time, I had the biggest database of CO2 estimates anybody had from ice cores, paleosols, boron, foraminifera, strontium isotope, carbon isotope ... basically every estimate published or available anywhere. You don't want the smoothed versions if you are comparing to when agriculture started etc. @@TheDanEdwards
@TheOriginalDanEdwards AGW is yesterday's theory. Science has learned so much since the 1980's. Firstly, ice core records now establish that the planet had far higher temperatures, going back hundreds of thousands of years; Secondly, NASA has now accurately measured the distance between earth and the sun and confirmed it is not fixed (we both rotate around the COG of the entire solar system, which is not the same as the COG of the sun); ; Thirdly, NASA has also accurately measured the suns magnetic field strength (a more accurate methodology than counting sun spots) and the correlation between the suns plasma activity and our historically recorded climate is close to 100%. AGW is a thesis that has now passed it's 'sell by' date.
I'd like to add that of course this transition was gradual as folks chose places theyd like to settle maybe more briefly at first,then as time went on they saw that conducting daily affairs from a home base settlement had so many benefits instead of dragging their belongings and families around all the time they were able to accumulate enough food and goods to start trading and then just keeps developing 😅
I'm just wondering if there before the "lithics", there were organized groups of people who built from wood, since it's easier to work with. Looking back on stone-based building sites as "firsts" might be a mistake. As folks are starting to think about cultures, the ones we find are already developed, or we wouldn't be finding them. The 20K year old sites look like the folks there were developed already.
After listening to this great show I sort of get the impression that Gobleki Tepe is not necessarily the earliest evidence of sedimentary lifestyle as I was led to believe by the media. If this is the case then what exactly makes it a unique site? is it the scale of its construction? are the monuments at GT on a scale never seen before? thank.
Pre European Contact, Native Americans in New England and Eastern Canada used birth bark containers, as well as building remarkable birth bark canoes in a great variety of sizes. They also used hollowed out logs as cooking vessels by dropping heated stones into the hollowed cavities to heat cooking water.
19:53 my impression was that scientists weren’t dismissing the possibility of cultivation of “wild grains” but rather that what they had recovered simply couldn’t be considered domestic grain.
I really hope that you will show the world the Neolithic Dwellings Museum in Stars Zagora in Bulgaria. It's a very well kept secret but absolutely amazing.
I guess if the resources around is enough to support a communnity during a year, hunter gatherers prefer to stay, like the tribes in Amazon forest. They are hunter gatherers but setteled in villages.
I love the 'unromantic' trail of civilizations. People are people, and our ancestors are so much smarter and capable than they are given credit for being.
Absolutely!! We live in a generation of plastic and people can't imagine a world without it. Quite sad actually
On a sleepless night I came across Standing with Stones and it’s still my favorite video/ movie to listen too to calm my sleeplessness. It’s just so calming. I really enjoy listening to both of you talk about our ancient ancestor’s and I enjoy your connection with each other and your banter. Thank you both for what you do.
OMG i do the same thing in fact i cant go to sleep with out playing it on the TV ,,Before that i used to use Time Team to fall asleep to Tony Robinson has a similar voice
Yeah great vid
Tea in hand, ready to gobble up my favorite topic with my favorite sirs.
People forget that Gobekli Tepe is actually one of the newer sites among hundreds of Tepe sites nearby. Pretty cool how much more there is left to learn and knowing that it will be older than Gobekli Tepe when it's finally uncovered and studied. We live in an incredible time of discovery.
Michaels & Rupert,
congrats lads...you are about to embark on the adventure of a life time!!! All the stars are aligned, figuratively and metaphorically, I can't wait to hear and see about of your adventures!
I wish you all the best and safe travels,
Barbara xo
The key thing to understand about Globeki Tepi is that only a tiny fraction (less than 5%) has been excavated. Consequently, any conclusions on its role or purpose are still very premature.
@stephenburnage7687 - Community storage buildings and homes have been excavated as well as the religious-type building, so conclusions CAN be drawn. Further discoveries may alter those conclusions, which is exciting. That's how science works - new data = new conclusions. This is one of the huge differences between science and pseudo-science.
@MossyMozart If you place the name "Globeki Tepi" in any search engine, the top results will assure you that the place was built by pre-pottery hunter gatherers. All based on less than 5% of the place being excavated, let alone any understanding as to what the few excavated carvings actually mean. Also minus any context as to what was happening to the planet in the years prior to that.. I would argue that such assertions are the pseudo science. A more honest approach would be to admit that we simply do not know.
It’s like reading one chapter in a 20 chapter book. Yes, many exciting twists and turns await.
Its seems bevor we get the answers whit the information we needs from the past there will be an Suneruption,Supervulkan or so.....and reset 😊
Correct!! We must start with speculation without presumption.
PBS says that humans domesticated marijuana plants before any other plants. Can you do an episode about this? Seems like people needed pottery to store their dank nugz before they were storing their food.
Once upon a time my favourite Rupert was Rupert Bear. I think I learnt to read with the strips' captions, wanting to be able to read the whole stories in my book.
Since I watched Standing With Stones around 2019, I have a new favourite Rupert. Addicted since then.
I'm not so much here for the history, but mostly for you two, seemingly good-natured, friendly and always smiling. What's more, you don't make me feel old. 😊
The history part is ofcourse a bonus.
Hi .. you just reminded me that it was Rupert the Bear that started my joy of reading.. The rhymes first and the stories after. I still have the Annuals that my Grandparents bought me each Xmas from the early 1960s on. With the "magic painting" pages that I could never get right, using a spit soaked finger, instead of a brush. Thankyou 😊
@@petermcbride5568
I don't think I had more than one of the books, 'cause we moved to Germany in 1961, but I do remember being proud of my colouring and wondering why I hadn't won anything.
I must have been between six and seven years old and I loved Big Ears and Noddy and the Mary Mouse books as well ( all of which my mother hated)
But I am glad Rupert Soskin doesn't wear yellow checkered trowsers. : )
Did you read Beano and Dandy as well?
seen and heard stuff about the Nautufians from these two and others and read a long Smithsonian article today, but it's like re reading a favourite novel every hearing you learn something different.
So looking forward to this. 🎉
I like to think she was just fondly remembered as "that person who likes to collect to shells" ❤️ in the same way that when I kick it, people might put little pig figurines or owl figurines in my burial place ☺️
You pound with a pestle, mix in a mortar. Easy way to remember. Thanks for your RUclips site. Loving it.
Students wear a "mortarboard" hat when they graduate. Turn it upside down and you'll see the shape of a mortar.
Glad to hear you are on track and I will be with you on the journey, It is wonderful to think of what is BEFORE Gobekli Teppi. I had not got that far. Note on visuals though you may prefer it this way. You are two small heads poking out through sepulchral gloom. Oh! I've got it - two pearls of wisdom.
Yayyyyy!!!!! Made my day!
Thank you Michael and Rupert!
Surely the most relevant 'context' for Globeki Tepi is that it is dated as immediately following the Younger Dryas (12,900 to 11,700 BP) events (which transitioned earth from the Pleistocein to the present Halocene epoch)? This series of events saw the earth experience a gradual warming, followed by a sudden rapid (unexplained) cooling, followed by a gradual warming, all as established in both Greenland and Antarctic ice core records (ie were global). In other words, whatever civilization built and/or occupied Globeki Tepi had just survived some of the most catastrophic, potentially extinction level (for some species) events experienced by our plannet for at least hundreds of thousands of years.
@stephenburnage7687 - Just like with many other pre-historic events, there are explanations, some of which are valid, some of which are wacky.
@MossyMozart Yes, agreed, there are no shortage of whacky theories out there. Nonetheless, there is now a solid, indisputable body of, ice core, sedimentary and tree ring evidence that planet earth experiences major, periodic, extinction level events (at least three in our probable million year history) and yet historians still cling to a misplaced belief that life on earth developed uniformly, unpunctuated by such events.
@@MossyMozart All of which are mostly theory and imagination.
'cept the rapid cooling wasn't global, Northern, mostly USA/Canada or UK/EU (Atlantic in common?) - this looks like a MOC event, aka the high salinity of the northward-flowing upper waters of the North Atlantic ocean is an essential condition for the formation of deep, cold, dense waters at high latitudes, as part of the meridional overturning circulation (MOC) and if it stops there is a "relatively rapid" cooling (over decades). Turkey/Levant/the Crescent evolving throughout minus at least? 22,000 to 11,700 BP!
@setuberyacht3923 It shows up on both the Greenland and Antarctic ice core records, which is why it is considered global.
I love the nuanced look you guys have of pre history! As a woman, my mind is thinking 🤔 Our human love of bread made is settle, and probably our inability to stop fighting with each other made us settle in large groups to protect our ability to make bread. Keeping animals negated the need for having men to hunt because they were off clobbering each other or we women liked clothes, so we needed lots of sheep/goats to make our ensembles. Lol
@atix50 - So, beer did not create settlements, but the practical, calming effects of women on their societies DID. (Why waste perfectly good bread on making beer? >_
Do not assume women were inclined toward pacifism. Their fields needed protection, and they may well have berated their men into providing status enhancing heads on poles outside their huts.
Warfare definitely predates agriculture, we have evidence of warfare like activity in these homo antecessor that were found in Spain from like 1,000,000 years ago. But you can’t raise large scale armies until agriculture, because you can’t feed armies without it.
Tt
Good morning from the glorious SF Bay Area. Got my coffee and ready to go.
Greetings from Lagos, Nigeria.
So glad to have discovered this channel.
I always took the Netflix shows about this site with a very big grain of salt, and just appreciated the entertainment value and whatnot.
But I consider this channel more valuable. Coherent, nuanced, honest, and challenging!
So happy I stumbled into this channel. Fine gentlemen and solid investigative work.
I have watched many videos and read much on Gobekli Tepe. Afterwards I could never wrap my head around the theory that small groups of hunter-gathers built this amazing site, traveling around and meeting there to build such a detailed structure. There had to be a core group leading the construction that was residing in the area. As massive as this site is, it would take quite a while to build. I'm betting you will find in time, that there will be discovered a large number communities and cities in the general area with routes all leading to the site.
Really looking forward to this guys
I have been looking forward too this thank you, you kind young gentlemen.
Dudes I literally laughed out loud when Rupert said “not so fast” about turtles hahaha love you 2
I've been looking forward to this! Funny thing, I was just debating my brother on this sort of subject. I sent him the world of antiquity video and now this one lol.
@_MikeJon_ - Then you might enjoy an episode on 'The Tel' channel that mentions Göbekli Tepe, not in terms of archeology, but in terms of the origins of religion. (There is also a very good debunking episode there on the Younger Dryas - concise, well-cited, interesting.)
Thrilled to see the podcast! Downloading it now. Thank you!
I,M GETTING SO EXCITED...
HURrY UP AS I AM BURSTING....
the weather has cooled down here
so i,m waiting...lol
XXX n
Thank you Michael and Rupert for what you do favorite topic .
Hahah love it when you forget the name of stuff - we all do - remember the moratorium the bowl used by the Romans for grinding. What an enjoyable podcast - so much to look forward to.
Yes... mankind became more sedentary when they discovered how to make ale from these humungous amounts of cereals they had structures specialised for storage.. barbequed tortoise, which were as ubiquitous as ants, flutes made from wing bones, multiple uses of grasses, beliefs in higher powers, cups made from tree barks, mass production of beaded necklaces to trade.. that all reminds me of how we lived in the fields of late 1970s early 80s Glastonbury festival (before it became the Babylon it is today)....
Great show, chaps.
I hope the coming trip to Gobekli Tepe is a success, we look forward to the continuing pod casts that you have planned. The Pre History Guys is one of the most engaging "things" on archaeology available on the net along with Crow County Archaeological Centre, your presentations are so uniquely English and all the more enjoyable for it.
Peter in North Wales.
I’ve been a ‘lurker’ on your channel for quite a while, but so happy about your trip that I must comment. Have just watched your initial updates on the trip, and returned to this video for more information. Great trip so far - so happy for you both!
Great episode. I really enjoyed it and learned a lot! Thanks! Looking forward to your dispatches from afar!
Thank you guys, my first visit to your site … you guys go for it! ⚔️⭐️🌍👏💫
Thank you for starting this awesome series. Love the information and ideas
It is fascinating that some of the oldest settlements are now (still?) in turmoil, despite the lack of water.
First time in with you guys. This is my time period place to think about
What a great adventure! From the Natufian to the Neolithic. You discuss Braidwood's "bread or beer" debate (from the 1950s) but not malt, the crucial ingredient for ale and beer. Hans Helbaek, as part of that debate, considered malting to be an important aspect of grain processing in the world of the early farmers. When you interviewed us four years ago about Neolithic Beer we talked a lot about malt. It's a significant aspect of the story. Sorry if I'm repeating myself but I made a similar comment about this here yesterday and can't find it now. 🙂
So intersting---just like having erudite friends.None of the horrible condescension of other history videos. I do hjope your great adventure brings you joy.
So glad Prof Watkin got a mention, I spent many a happy hour on the flotation at Pinabasi despite having to break the ice first thing later in the dig season, an absolute privilage to pick his brains when he had no option of escape
What a pleasant surprise!
I like the "Desert Kite" over hunting/ Cult of the Gazelle hypothesis.
Love you two since Standing with Stones. Became a patron today.
Love the show. As a parallel to the conjecture about tortoise farming. Down here in Oz, there is much evidence that one group of Aboriginals in the SE managed eels. Channels to increase eel friendly habitat were dug across the landscape, and remnants still exist today. Even if the settlements at the 'eel farms' were not permanent, having a reliable food supply in one part of the landscape, or one period of time in the seasonal round, was a great step forward in food security.
Yes indeed the many Tes Tepler archeological sites being researched for many years and show chronologically all the stages and skills that were taking place culminating in a grand meeting place for hunter gatherers of the region to share knowledge,break bread and feast before deciding to go into agricultural and more permanent settlements. You can see there are t pillars,similar artwork and many other clues and tools all over Tes Tepeler region leading up to the last hurrah of hunter gatherers in Gobekli tepe.
These guys are adorable, and calming to listen to.
I also learn a lot!
I am very excited to observe and learn from this series. I’m a new subscriber with high hopes. Good luck.
I love that your discussion touches on the problem in our thinking about hunter gatherers necessarily being nomadic. Of course hunter gatherers living in particularly rich environments would remain in place, because there was every incentive to stay and no incentive to move. At the same time, equally intelligent, knowledgeable and skillful people living in more difficult environments necessarily moved about so as not to overtax the resources in any particular location. There were no doubt locations that were good enough for people to stay for extended periods but not so rich that they could remain permanently. Thus, the line between hunter gatherers and early farmers is necessarily rather fuzzy.
Hey lads, I'm watching this podcast on here as my Patreon isn't playing videos very well at all since it's 'new look' launch.... I have a point to raise.... I don't know if you have control over how many adverts RUclips plays during your videos, but there's been a hell of a lot for this one... Like absolutely over kill, to the point I'm 22min in and can't take anymore. It's not something I've ever noticed on your channel before, maybe the odd advert here and there.... Which is totally acceptable on a Freeview platform imo... But every 2 minutes.... Will put a Hella lot of people off viewing the full hour.
Take your point. I'll have a look at that - I suspect that because there aren't any natural breaks (RUclips usually does a reasonable job of placing ads in breaks) it may have saturated the timeline. Thanks Stevo. M.
UPDATE: You're right. I've just cut out well over half of them. Hopefully that'll keep people watching longer. Thanks for the heads up.
@stevorobo8411 - Try a different ad-blocker?
To me,the art work is the coolest part😊I see the same fox,snakes,boars and jaguars that i swear this guy from the smaller semi permanent site had to have been the same artist that did many of the carvings at Gobekli Tepe. God i would love to have a few beers with that chap. Incredible expressive depictions of local species...wow.
Mmmm I think you should check out a rather famous RUclips history professor who has just released a very concise version of this topic.Would be far easier to point your viewers to that release allowing you to get on with the post Gobekli era which I look forward to.
I find it absurd to think this was ground zero fir anything considering the skill utilized
This is exactly how oral traditions remembered it.
Even in the later days of ottoman empire when western soldiers encountered oral traditions and of its geologically on a map where the mouths of the euphratis & tiaras rivers which has such a written record of importance
sorry, can you please expand and explain what you're saying here?@@dadsonworldwide3238
and any source data references would be great@@dadsonworldwide3238
when you are at chatal, if you have the oppertunity to swing by Pinabasi, its a fabulious little site, spent 3 great seasons digging there 2003 through 5. Karaman is a nice enough place, Konya not so much. enjoy turkey folks, the Konya plain is full of delicious archaeology
Very good!
Congrats, Guys, from Spain. If once you need any help with the rich Spanish megalithism (is this the right way to write it?), just tell me and I may read articles for you or give you recommendations to look at.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
I have missed you.
doing your podcasts i hope sth culturally combining the world comes up...the world is one,hope objective research will enlighten us all🌏
I'm pretty sure beer's contribution to the development of civilisation is underrated. After all most of the time water was unfit to drink because of (then) unknown bacteria whereas the first step in brewing is boiling the water and killing the bacteria in the process.
Rotting fruit wouldve been so easy to identify once a hungry person gorged themselves with it lol
I find it to be more wild how little people today think of ancient minds.
Most of what I encounter is a poor modern disconnect with natural human abilities and or labor oriented qualities
So ? What you're saying is :-
"Early settled humans spent their time making and drinking beer whilst tortoise farming." ! Now that really does sound like a 'Garden of Eden' life style. 😊
The hunter gatherers we found in the last 400 years were the last ones living on the most marginal land, so they had to be nomadic. Farmers, mostly agriculturalist, had already taken all the quality land that would let you be sedentary and still be hunters, gatherers, and horticulturalist.
When you go to Turkey and visit the several places, could you also comment on the geography? What makes these spots different from other areas.
I noticed that these sites line up along the threshold between the flat Syria plain and the highlands of Anatolia.
P. S. Will you go to Boncuklu Tarla? Is it a coincidence that 12000 years later exactly that spot was chosen as the place for a damn?
Will this be available 'wherever you get your podcasts"?
Yes. The audio podcast has only just gone live and has been submitted to all the major services, Including Apple and Spotify. I would expect it to take a little while for it to show up in all of them. In the meantime, try the hosting site here: gobekli-tepe-stonehenge.captivate.fm/ Michael.
@@ThePrehistoryGuys great, thank you. I'm off out and can't wait. And I can't wait for the prequel... " [insert place name] to Göbekli Tepe" 😉
My theory is that dogs invented beer. If you feed ANY dog beer it will drink it faster than water. Dogs found the drainage from old grain storage and drank it all. People noticed the dog's always drinking it and named it "beer". Beer started in dog-owning cultures.
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS THANK U BOTH. SHARE, SHARE
I think the most interesting thing here is the existence of an intermediate stage between nomadic hunter gatherers and farming communities. The sedentary hunter gatherers that persisted for thousands and thousands of years. It really alters how we see prehistory.
Another one is nomadism within fixed boundaries (Australian First Nations).
You cannot find another site, that is so spectacular as Göbekli tepe. İt is just so breath taking to sea those huge "pilars"..
So nice to meet you fellows!
In a RUclips culture of 20 year olds, it's nice to find intelligent people of a credible age who can talk!
As a child who had tortoises as pets, I agree they can be prolific egg layers. Getting the newly hatched, soft-shelled babies to survive is another thing altogether. Adult tortoises love eating the babies.
😳
The more we learn, the more we see that human history just keeps going back farther and farther.
We must keep digging deeper...
Good job, Guys.
Thanks guys ‘‘twas fantastic.
I can't wait for this journey to begin! I know you will be travelling north west through the mists of time, following the footsteps of people who decided to explore and settle in the landscapes which were gradually emerging from beneath the retreating glaciers. But will you also consider those who were travelling south east at the same time, esp. from what is now the British Isles, and what might have happened when the two parties met? Is it possible that cultures / practices / materials from prehistoric Britain influenced those in the fertile crescent area (there's a myth about a Mesolithic terrestrial zodiac created in the English Midlands area having found its way to Mesopotamia, and being the basis for the Epic of Gilgamesh). I can imagine such a meeting happening at Stonehenge, actually. Maybe the two groups got on so well, they decided to make it a permanent site. I can imagine people who had come from the Preseli Hills being quite impressed by the what the other group had brought with them, and saying, "Let's go back and get our stuff - the blue stones and things - we'll come back here to live". Weren't there very tall timber posts in the early days? Those could have been for sighting over long distances?
What luck, to find you guys at your first episode🎉😂❤😊
“I think it is utterly shameful you said ‘not so fast’.” They laughed, I laughed.
Curious to hear if anyone else has spotted the resemblance in shape and style of some of the megalithic monuments in Malta to Goebekli tepe?
Between genetics and cultural similarities, I'm pretty convinced that at least part of the ancestry of the early Anatolian farmers that entered Mediterranean Europe was from the builders of GT.
Thanks!
22:36 Were all the mega animals gone from the region at the time of occupation? The flints seem to be too small for mega game. Just curious ✌️💕🤘🎃
No - other sources show Mega Fauna still around. However, even during the 18th century which would you rather hunt - a moose 6ft tall & 1400 pounds that can hurt you or a white tail deer -2.8ft tall & 150 pounds? A dozen rabbits or decent size fish in a stew with vegies can easily feed 25 people. Makes sense to go for the easy prey every day & leave the big stuff for once in a great while.
@@gregorybiestek3431 I wasn’t specifically sure for that region especially hearing about the larger population. Thank you.
How do you spell the last site you mentioned, the earlier, wooden version of Gobekli Tepe?
So are we all agreed that gobekli tepe helps us move beyond the timeline already understood to be the start of everything ?
♪♫♥Very Interesting - Thank you for sharing guys 🤪
I'm reminded there was an Australian band called Hunters & Collectors. Numismatists afield, behind duck-blinds perhaps? So perhaps Gathering & Hunting is the transitional stage from Hunting & Gathering? I picture the Far Side panel of "Tell your father, I was raised an H-G, but now I am a G-H!", or something like that. It worked on my father-in-law! ;)
I recall that the Russian team was well settled and well traveled long before they got to Gobekli Tepe and brought their ways and means with them. But do indulge us with your interesting exclusive focus on west eurasia.
Salute from Brazil.i have just subscribed..
Welcome, and thank you:)
10-15 years ago, with Gobekli Tepe, scholars thought they were no anthropomorphic gods or vague beginnings of it and almost only animals. However, the numerous detailed sculptures of anthropomorphic figures at sites contemporary with Gobekli Tepe open the possibility animal and human-type gods (or ancestor worship) had a transitional period were both existed together around 8500-9000 BCE. It's interesting how human and animal figures are in the same sculptures such as animals on the humans' backs or chests.
If you guys are covering Gobekli Tepe, you must cover one of its sister sites called, "Kerehan Tepe." It is far more exciting. It is only a few dozen kilometers away.
If you can get your hands on the highest resolution CO2 numbers you can get (not the smoothed faked out ones), you will see that wheat and barley only grows well enough when CO2 is higher than 250 ppm. Agriculture (and just wild harvesting of the same) only worked when CO2 went above 250 ppm. Younger Dryas was a period when it went back below and hence gathering and planting of wild wheat and barley just quit working. This is also why civilization started and why it worked. In the 100K years of CO2 below 250 ppm, humans had to rely on hunting only because most plants just did not grow well enough. What grew well was C4 grasses and hence we lived off the herbivores that could eat C4 grasses.
"(not the smoothed faked out ones)... because most plants just did not grow well enough"
At one time, I had the biggest database of CO2 estimates anybody had from ice cores, paleosols, boron, foraminifera, strontium isotope, carbon isotope ... basically every estimate published or available anywhere. You don't want the smoothed versions if you are comparing to when agriculture started etc. @@TheDanEdwards
@TheOriginalDanEdwards AGW is yesterday's theory. Science has learned so much since the 1980's. Firstly, ice core records now establish that the planet had far higher temperatures, going back hundreds of thousands of years; Secondly, NASA has now accurately measured the distance between earth and the sun and confirmed it is not fixed (we both rotate around the COG of the entire solar system, which is not the same as the COG of the sun); ; Thirdly, NASA has also accurately measured the suns magnetic field strength (a more accurate methodology than counting sun spots) and the correlation between the suns plasma activity and our historically recorded climate is close to 100%. AGW is a thesis that has now passed it's 'sell by' date.
Rupert, please don’t back off from your practical instincts 💙
I'd like to add that of course this transition was gradual as folks chose places theyd like to settle maybe more briefly at first,then as time went on they saw that conducting daily affairs from a home base settlement had so many benefits instead of dragging their belongings and families around all the time they were able to accumulate enough food and goods to start trading and then just keeps developing 😅
I'm just wondering if there before the "lithics", there were organized groups of people who built from wood, since it's easier to work with. Looking back on stone-based building sites as "firsts" might be a mistake. As folks are starting to think about cultures, the ones we find are already developed, or we wouldn't be finding them. The 20K year old sites look like the folks there were developed already.
Archaeology. and Archaeoastronomy are the precursors of all historical information associated with all ancient projects.
After listening to this great show I sort of get the impression that Gobleki Tepe is not necessarily the earliest evidence of sedimentary lifestyle as I was led to believe by the media. If this is the case then what exactly makes it a unique site? is it the scale of its construction? are the monuments at GT on a scale never seen before? thank.
Pre European Contact, Native Americans in New England and Eastern Canada used birth bark containers, as well as building remarkable birth bark canoes in a great variety of sizes. They also used hollowed out logs as cooking vessels by dropping heated stones into the hollowed cavities to heat cooking water.
Do you mean "Birch" bark rather than "birth" bark?
Yes-typo
19:53 my impression was that scientists weren’t dismissing the possibility of cultivation of “wild grains” but rather that what they had recovered simply couldn’t be considered domestic grain.
A peak shared experience can be a source of bonding amongst tribal people. Its just something i have been thinking about for a fair while.
I'm thinking very early on as farming was developing and before.
Y'all are the cat's meow!
I really hope that you will show the world the Neolithic Dwellings Museum in Stars Zagora in Bulgaria. It's a very well kept secret but absolutely amazing.
These men are referring to Denisovans as "Humans". Right on!
(I did not know about the bracelet. I will have to look for an account.)
I believe Onan is just north of Wankistan, west of Tel Tossof, east of Eden.
How do you spell chocmec tepe? The wood site you were talking about?
Hi Trey, it's Cakmaktepe. R
Thank you. That's what I figured. Being from South Carolina, my English is a bit off. Keep up the great work! Thank yall!
Is there a date beginning of gobiklitepe and what would ten thousand years from that date be ? 50 thousand,100?
I guess if the resources around is enough to support a communnity during a year, hunter gatherers prefer to stay, like the tribes in Amazon forest. They are hunter gatherers but setteled in villages.
What are your thoughts on noah having anything to do with this place? Time lines up perfect to end of younger dryas. And its near mt ariat too... ???
My question also are their traces of a flood or is tepe built before noah